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The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    Understand Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Home Secretary Priti Patel are on their way back to London

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1449020652812439552?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Early entry for twat of the day. But no doubt there will be others on twatter later.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    One sad thing that we must all acknowledge - that intemperate language about others can be just a joke, but can act as incitement to others.

    When I was at university, an idiot tried to frame someone as being a racist, by faking emails.

    Fortunately he was a moron, and trivially caught. He was chucked out of the university.

    It turned out that it was politically motivated - he had taken literally the rhetoric that some in the political society he belonged to, used. Due to a quirk in his personality, he seems to take everything literally.

    He actually, at the Student Union hearing* on this, shouted "But she's a XXXXX - why are you doing this to me?"

    *Given that he was about to be kicked out of University, the Student Union assembled a panel to decide whether we should intervene and what we should do.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486
    Aaron Bastani
    @AaronBastani
    ·
    40m
    This is so dreadful. 2 politicians have now been murdered while trying to fulfil their duties as public officials. If they can't do that without fear of violent attack we lose a major part of being a free society.

    Rest in peace David Amess
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,325

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
  • Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    Is it not authoritative? I did wonder at the long gaps
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.

    This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.
    That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.

    But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
    Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.

    Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.
    IIRC the evidence was the Jo Cox's murderer was fit to plead*, and motivated by being a violent neo-Nazi.

    *He exhibited some nutty behaviours, but was judged responsible for his actions by various mental health experts.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,262

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Early entry for twat of the day. But no doubt there will be others on twatter later.
    This is an area where the various social media co mpanies really ought to be able to swiftly intervene to prevent this kind of thing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486
    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    ·
    27m
    Grateful to media organisations asking for tribute to David Amess MP but, with apologies, not today please.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    He comes across as somewhat of a prat on Facebook pages.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Top story on CNN

    RIP Sir David Amess
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    Is it not authoritative? I did wonder at the long gaps
    Well, tons of people who died/killed/murderd in medieval and later times were MPs when they died. Quite a few in the English civil war - including some captured and executed, IIRC.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    He comes across as somewhat of a prat on Facebook pages.
    David Cameron has the last word on that....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Mrfut-FSw
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,340
    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
    Imagine there's no Twitter
    It isn't hard to do
    No Facebook either
    And Instagram gone, too
    I think just don't allow teenagers in Instagram, keep it to 20-40 year olds.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,182

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.

    This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.
    That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.

    But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
    Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.

    Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.
    IIRC the evidence was the Jo Cox's murderer was fit to plead*, and motivated by being a violent neo-Nazi.

    *He exhibited some nutty behaviours, but was judged responsible for his actions by various mental health experts.
    To commit the act of political murder itself is a action no 'right thinking' individual would do. Regardless of other motivation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    Is it not authoritative? I did wonder at the long gaps
    Well, tons of people who died/killed/murderd in medieval and later times were MPs when they died. Quite a few in the English civil war - including some captured and executed, IIRC.
    42 MPs died in service during WW1 and WW2.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,431
    Taz said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
    Rayner is vile. She was using rhetoric designed to play to her base, her supporters. Doubled down on her stupidity. Yet she was effusive with praise and posted highly dignified comments when James Brokenshire died. Awful person, she is.
    I don't think she's an awful person. She epitomises the views of some on the left of her party. She genuinely thinks she is morally superior to those on the right. Corbyn was awash with this. Did you really believe that her tweet re Brokenshire was genuine?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,793
    Shocking news.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.

    This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.
    That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.

    But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
    Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.

    Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.
    IIRC the evidence was the Jo Cox's murderer was fit to plead*, and motivated by being a violent neo-Nazi.

    *He exhibited some nutty behaviours, but was judged responsible for his actions by various mental health experts.
    To commit the act of political murder itself is a action no 'right thinking' individual would do. Regardless of other motivation.
    The problem is that leads to the medicalisation of everything.

    I agree with a friend, who practised psychiatry for a number of years. She assessed some very hard core individuals - murderers among them.

    She was quite clear that there are plenty of fit-to-plead people who will do horrible things. And refused to assess everyone who did horrible things as unfit to plead - though this upset their lawyers, no end.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    edited October 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
    "no place in my heart" sounds COLD
    Ah, I see. No, that was turn-of-phrase "no place in my heart" not an expression of genuine personal dislike. But, ok, if it looks to anybody like I was saying, "Jesus, terrible news but ..." then I've expressed myself poorly. This is a shocking and sad event. That's my feeling about it and my only feeling. But anyway -
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,431
    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    And in doing so they insult a massive chunk of the electorate.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,180

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    Well done Yvette.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,036
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
    Imagine there's no Twitter
    It isn't hard to do
    No Facebook either
    And Instagram gone, too
    I think just don't allow teenagers in Instagram, keep it to 20-40 year olds.
    Harsh and ageist. I've reported you to my 50+ wife who enjoys Instagram and has thousands of followers for her vintage clothes account.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    And apparently the person playing silly buggers is you Blanche.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    Terrible news. RIP Sir David Amess.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 25,994
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    Is it not authoritative? I did wonder at the long gaps
    Well, tons of people who died/killed/murderd in medieval and later times were MPs when they died. Quite a few in the English civil war - including some captured and executed, IIRC.
    42 MPs died in service during WW1 and WW2.
    Quite a few died executed by their political enemies in the wider Civil Wars of Britain and Ireland, to extend Malmesbury's point - right down to the aftermath of the '45 rising. Being killed by what they saw as an illegitimate regime might be counted as assassination.

  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    And apparently the person playing silly buggers is you Blanche.
    Eh? Have you followed the link to Yvette's tweet? It's still there
  • Mrs RP has been on the phone to her mum. David Amess was a family friend, had done football coaching for my brother in laws when they were boys. Didn't deserve this.

    Nobody deserves this
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,340

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
    Imagine there's no Twitter
    It isn't hard to do
    No Facebook either
    And Instagram gone, too
    I think just don't allow teenagers in Instagram, keep it to 20-40 year olds.
    Harsh and ageist. I've reported you to my 50+ wife who enjoys Instagram and has thousands of followers for her vintage clothes account.
    Facebook is for the middle ages and oldies!
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,262
    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    The right thing would be for it to be uncontested.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    And apparently the person playing silly buggers is you Blanche.
    Eh? Have you followed the link to Yvette's tweet? It's still there
    Yes
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,457

    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    Good photo, shows a bit of sense of hummer/personality.

    The would is a poorer place without him.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,182
    felix said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    The right thing would be for it to be uncontested.
    As per Batley and Spen, we have a convention now it seems.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961

    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    Might well be Belfairs Woods, just round the corner from where he was murdered, and of which I have several happy memories.
    "In another country, and beside....."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,489
    felix said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    The right thing would be for it to be uncontested.
    Felt wrong in 2016, but you can see why it happened. Sadly, I can actually remember saying "hopefully we don't get to find out too quickly if the gesture would be reciprocated." :(
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,180

    felix said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    The right thing would be for it to be uncontested.
    As per Batley and Spen, we have a convention now it seems.
    Completely irrelevant though just now.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    And apparently the person playing silly buggers is you Blanche.
    Eh? Have you followed the link to Yvette's tweet? It's still there
    Yes
    I may have got confused (not for the first time lol) watching CNN

    Here's Mrs Johnson's tweet-

    https://twitter.com/carrielbjohnson/status/1449013558050758659?s=20
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,492
    edited October 2021
    JBriskin3 said:



    Eh? Have you followed the link to Yvette's tweet? It's still there

    Yes
    So how am I "playing silly buggers"?

    ETA, just seen your post above
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
    Imagine there's no Twitter
    It isn't hard to do
    No Facebook either
    And Instagram gone, too
    I think just don't allow teenagers in Instagram, keep it to 20-40 year olds.
    Harsh and ageist. I've reported you to my 50+ wife who enjoys Instagram and has thousands of followers for her vintage clothes account.
    Facebook is for the middle ages and oldies!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:



    Eh? Have you followed the link to Yvette's tweet? It's still there

    Yes
    So how am I "playing silly buggers"?
    Apologies - as I've said it looks like I've got a bit confused with the TV on in the background
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    It was less hazardous to be a member of the ruling class in the Middle Ages.
    https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/10/medieval-coasean-warfare.html
    ...between Waltheof’s demise in 1076 and Gaveston’s in 1312 not a single English earl, and indeed hardly a single baron, was executed (or murdered) in England for political reasons...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937
    edited October 2021

    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
  • pingping Posts: 2,659

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    Hmm. Now is probably not the time to say this, but… well, re: yvette’s tweet - he was a bit of a dinosaur on social issues. Hardly “one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet” if you were lgbt.

    His death is sad, tragic and shocking, but his record doesn’t deserve to be sugarcoated. He was profoundly wrong on some fundamental moral issues.

    Anyway, I’m only arguing the point because of Yvette’s tweet.

    The main thing to say is, what happened today is horrible. Thoughts with his wife, family and colleagues. RIP.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    Roger said:


    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
    I suspect most of us can.

    The question is, why can’t you?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 15,250
    Roger said:


    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
    Not now, Rog.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    edited October 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
    The people who have a place in their heart for him don't need to hear that you don't on the day he was murdered.
    Ok but, again, it wasn't an expression of personal dislike of the man, it was just a reference to that iconic and painful moment for Labour supporters. And it was a post on PB not a private communication to his friends & family or some high profile public tweet of my reaction. That would've been a different matter, course it would!
  • Roger said:


    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
    Are you really incapable of respecting the murder of an mp
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,237
    Shocking news, going out there doing his job and serving his community and this tragic incident happens.

    My thoughts with his family at this deeply sad time.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,513
    felix said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    That just got attiributed to Carries Johnson on CNN - so someone somewhere is playing silly buggers.

    If the media are in that kind of attitude - I may as well say - By-election
    The right thing would be for it to be uncontested.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Batley_and_Spen_by-election
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,362
    Roger said:


    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
    Eh? Do you honestly think this was how he saw himself?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,520
    Very sad news - best wishes to David Amess' family and friends.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,036
    gealbhan said:

    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.

    Your comments this afternoon are an utter disgrace. I would argue with you, but I've got more respect for the tragic victim of an outrageous murder than to do so at the moment.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,340

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    What a massive c***. I think some people have just become completely bitter and delusional over Brexit. I think they really need mental help to recover.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,775
    ping said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    Hmm. Now is probably not the time to say this, but… well, re: yvette’s tweet - he was a bit of a dinosaur on social issues. Hardly “one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet” if you were lgbt.

    His death is sad, tragic and shocking, but his record doesn’t deserve to be sugarcoated. He was profoundly wrong on some fundamental moral issues.
    .
    Kinder politics. Man is dead. Let’s kick his corpse.

    Of course he can be kind and friendly and have different views. I doubt he went out of his way to be unkind to LGBT community.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961
    Granddaughter-in-law may well be trying to get home from the school where she teaches along that very road at the moment. Wonder how snarled up the traffic is. It's a bit of a mess round there.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,457
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    This list is quite incomplete - before the modern era, the number of MPs murdered was already long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
    It was less hazardous to be a member of the ruling class in the Middle Ages.
    https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/10/medieval-coasean-warfare.html
    ...between Waltheof’s demise in 1076 and Gaveston’s in 1312 not a single English earl, and indeed hardly a single baron, was executed (or murdered) in England for political reasons...
    Those where the days :)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,431
    gealbhan said:

    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.

    "if the assailant..."

    "If" being the operative word. How do we know the killer isn't a right wing nutter who didn't think Brexit was pure enough?

    Hold your fire I say.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 16,252
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.

    This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.
    That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.

    But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
    Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.

    Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.
    I agree. But we don't know those things yet.
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?

    Or Remainers who label Leavers as thick and ignorant or xenophobes and racists? Get off your high horse and stop trying to score political points over such issues.
  • Stocky said:

    Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.

    Wee while before the outrage bus slows down enough for folk to folk to get off safely. Safety first.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,775
    Stocky said:

    gealbhan said:

    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.

    "if the assailant..."

    "If" being the operative word. How do we know the killer isn't a right wing nutter who didn't think Brexit was pure enough?

    Hold your fire I say.
    Yes, exactly. We can’t comment until we know only speculate and that is far from helpful. It’s best to wait until the facts emerge.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,513
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
    The people who have a place in their heart for him don't need to hear that you don't on the day he was murdered.
    Ok but, again, it wasn't an expression of personal dislike of the man, it was just a reference to that iconic and painful moment for Labour supporters. And it was a post on PB not a private communication to his friends & family or some high profile public tweet of my reaction. That would've been a different matter, course it would!
    PB is public. We have a disproportionate number of people involved in politics here, so there's a greater chance of there being people who know him. There are times when it is best to be a bit more careful.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,262
    Roger said:


    @christiancalgie
    In 2015 David Amess was awarded a knighthood for political and public service. How did the newly-knighted Sir David celebrate?

    He got dressed up and released this brilliant photo https://echo-news.co.uk/news/13374797.this-photograph-of-southend-mp-sir-david-amess-dressed-as-a-knight-is-brilliant/
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449019625027645447

    If only one could believe it was tongue-in-cheek
    Classy --as ever!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,451
    ping said:

    gealbhan said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    More than that he is whole insensitive and it is inexcusable no matter what his political views are
    Why pick on Femi when his Labour Party friends support him in the following comments, taking this moment to remind us “ that Amess supports the return of capital punishment and wants to ban abortions.” Don’t forget that, comrades.

    It’s more than feeling no human compassion in their hearts. The Labour Party has a problem at every level in how they view their democratic political colleagues sitting opposite. And a weak weak leader who does nothing about it.
    Not all of them.

    @YvetteCooperMP
    Just devastating news. David Amess was one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet. Completely dedicated to serving his constituency, involved in so many causes & important work on animal welfare. But above all, just kind and keen to help others. We will all miss him
    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1449024636893728793
    Hmm. Now is probably not the time to say this, but… well, re: yvette’s tweet - he was a bit of a dinosaur on social issues. Hardly “one of the kindest, friendliest people you could meet” if you were lgbt.

    His death is sad, tragic and shocking, but his record doesn’t deserve to be sugarcoated. He was profoundly wrong on some fundamental moral issues.

    Anyway, I’m only arguing the point because of Yvette’s tweet.

    The main thing to say is, what happened today is horrible. Thoughts with his wife, family and colleagues. RIP.
    Not the time to say it ......but you can't resist saying it.
  • On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:

    It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.

    It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.

    A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.

    (To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)

    I remember Mhairi Black being full of praise for Jacob Rees Mogg after he went out of his way to help her when she first came to Parliament. She even praised him in her maiden speech. Sadly 3 years later she described him as 'vile' so clearly their friendship had not lasted.
  • Stocky said:

    Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.

    Wee while before the outrage bus slows down enough for folk to folk to get off safely. Safety first.
    If you are not outraged by the murder of an mp then you need to look at yourself
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    That is some Brirish understatement in the header title.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:

    It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.

    It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.

    A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.

    (To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)

    Yes, well said.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    There's going to be some real idiots mouthing off and getting piled on today.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,325
    edited October 2021
    gealbhan said:

    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Other than maybe Roger everyone of all political persuasions has been very sympathetic and kind on here this afternoon IMO.

    I will say that since Rayner's rant IDS has been hit over the head with a traffic cone with people jeering "tory scum" at him and now a Tory MP has now been murdered.

    Of course these events might be completely unconnected but if people can stop looking at each other as "scum" "traitors" "quislings" "xenaphobes" "c****, etc, etc it would be far better for public life irrespective of what the exact motive is for this appalling murder.

    As @Leon says we all need to dial down rhetoric and calm down (and yes I include myself in that)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    gealbhan said:

    Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.

    But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?

    Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.

    Not at all sure but I think I might remember you now under a previous posting name which also might have started with a G? You were quite measured on most things but on Israel/Palestine you were really 'out there'. Would that be right?
  • Flags at half mast at no 10
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
    "no place in my heart" sounds COLD
    Ah, I see. No, that was turn-of-phrase "no place in my heart" not an expression of genuine personal dislike. But, ok, if it looks to anybody like I was saying, "Jesus, terrible news but ..." then I've expressed myself poorly. This is a shocking and sad event. That's my feeling about it and my only feeling. But anyway -
    I thought that was the case, and wouldn't have mentioned it - but you did seem rather taken aback that anyone could see anything at all wrong in what you'd posted. I thought I'd point out the bit that I thought sounded rather cold, considering the guy has just been brutally murdered.
  • Stocky said:

    Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.

    Wee while before the outrage bus slows down enough for folk to folk to get off safely. Safety first.
    If you are not outraged by the murder of an mp then you need to look at yourself
    Your outrage is apparently triggered by someone asking a question so you can stick your judgment in a dark nook somewhere.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,793
    edited October 2021
    Stabbing is such a horrific way to die. I hope the perpetrator feels the full force of the law.

    I appreciate that this is too early, but somehow I hope this is a catalyst for change. Far too many people die from stabbings in the UK. It is utterly essential that MPs can do their work with confidence and without fear.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    Can't we just shut down Twitter? Public discourse and llfe in general would be so much better off without it...
    Imagine there's no Twitter
    It isn't hard to do
    No Facebook either
    And Instagram gone, too
    The internet was okay for the first 10 years or so when it was mainly computer nerds. The problem was when the trolls joined.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,180

    Stocky said:

    Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.

    Wee while before the outrage bus slows down enough for folk to folk to get off safely. Safety first.
    If you are not outraged by the murder of an mp then you need to look at yourself
    Your outrage is apparently triggered by someone asking a question so you can stick your judgment in a dark nook somewhere.
    Not now tud, really not now.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,140
    I don't know how you improve the security for MPs without getting rid of the constituency surgery (which might just drive the nutters to try other places instead). You could frisk people on their way in but that could be intimidating to a lot of people and wouldn't help with attacks outside the building. A depressing situation where there is no good answer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    edited October 2021
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    For me the lack of protection for our political infrastructure is one of its best aspects. It is great that MPs and Ministers mix so freely with the rest of us and are not a class apart. But it becomes increasingly difficult to keep this going after incidents like this. Just as airport security has sucked all the joy out of flying we may find that an essential part of our democracy gets sucked out of surgeries, attendances at fetes etc.

    This is not just murder by a presumably deranged inadequate, it is an attack on a very important part of our democracy. It is a very sad day.

    I really do not want to engage on such a day on your more specific point. Raynor was foolish to say what she did but I really do not think it is appropriate to try to score a point about this today.
    I am not opposed, in principal, to people raising what may be an uncomfortable point in the midst of tragedy. Sometimes you need that, lest a vital point be lost as people proclaim it is 'not the time' to say something divisive - talking about gun control after a massacre being a case in point, where it might be uncomfortable and political to raise it, but it also still appropriate to say more than thoughts and prayers because if not then, when?

    But lacking known direct connection there is no such urgency to so comment here, not least as very few had defended such commentary in the first place. That debate will not be advanced by having it now, in fact it may hinder it.
  • Grim, grim news.
This discussion has been closed.