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Why Tory Remain seats could be a struggle for BoJo – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 5 in General
imageWhy Tory Remain seats could be a struggle for BoJo – politicalbetting.com

One thing we have seen from council elections and Westminster by-elections this year is how different the outcomes are in Remain and Leave seats. If Hartlepool (Leave 69.57%) was a doodle for an easy CON gain Chesham and Amersham (44.9% Leave) saw a totally different electoral dynamic.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 2,490
    Pretty sure I’ve seen more than one other article here in the same vein. Might be nice to have something original.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640
    edited October 5
    Taz said:

    Pretty sure I’ve seen more than one other article here in the same vein. Might be nice to have something original.

    Get writing then...

    And it's not as if BTL stays on topic!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,573
    Taz said:

    Pretty sure I’ve seen more than one other article here in the same vein. Might be nice to have something original.

    You can always make a submission yourself. I've had a few articles published as have other regulars.
  • You've doodled a doddle in the second sentence.

    I guess Boris will try to make more people into "Leavers" or "Stay Outers"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350
    Taz said:

    Pretty sure I’ve seen more than one other article here in the same vein. Might be nice to have something original.

    So write one
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,593
    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Ah, the old "swap your Honda Civic for a pogo stick" manoeuvre. Classic political strategy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Under the new rules, destined to fail, both in terms of PLP nominations and members vote.

    The truth is that defenestrating Labour leaders is so difficult that it never happens. SKS has it until he resigns.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    He was at the conservative conference yesterday
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,573
    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Boris all bluff and bluster on BBC News clip. Kuennesberg far too shouty/accusatory to draw Boris out.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329

    Boris all bluff and bluster on BBC News clip. Kuennesberg far too shouty/accusatory to draw Boris out.

    That is who Boris is and it infuriates his opponents
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,592

    Taz said:

    Pretty sure I’ve seen more than one other article here in the same vein. Might be nice to have something original.

    You can always make a submission yourself. I've had a few articles published as have other regulars.
    Speak for yourself, I'd like to keep my 100% record!

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/04/29/why-indiana-next-tuesday-is-so-crucial-for-both-trump-and-cruz/

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/07/31/a-hundred-days-to-go-until-the-2016-white-house-election-on-november-8th/
  • FPT -
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?

    You said quite a lot in the post about abuse.

    I really wanted to like it, but I didn't agree with all of it. I don't think making misogyny a crime would be particularly helpful. And I'd certainly be uncomfortable with making it a crime without also making misandry one. Having different laws for men and women feels a bit, well, Sharia to me.
    It's a bit misleading, I think, how this is being reported. The proposition isn't to create a new crime of misogyny. It's to allow misogyny - like racism, which is not a crime - to be an aggravating factor in crime sentencing. Possibly also a ramification in the area of "hate speech" but I'm not sure about that.
    I agree, and also agree with Cyclefree that if we are to have "hate crimes" then they should include misogynistic ones. I'd prefer there not to be "hate crimes", and have these things as aggravating factors. And if misogyny is one, misandry must be also, even if it is a tiny problem in comparison.

    I don't know, but I assume anti-white motivated racist attacks must treated as "hate crimes" too?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,880
    If we're talking about Conservative remain constituencies its notable how have already been lost:

    Battersea
    Richmond Park
    Putney
    Bath
    Twickenham
    St Albans
    Enfield Southgate
    Oxford W
    Reading E
    Cardiff N
    Warwick
    Kingston
    Bristol NW
    Brighton Kemptown
    Canterbury

    Plus Gower, Weaver Vale, Croydon C and Bedford which voted Leave.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum_by_constituency

    We really have had quite an electoral churn during the last five years.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,557
    65% of constituencies voted Leave I think
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,668
    Foxy said:

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Under the new rules, destined to fail, both in terms of PLP nominations and members vote.

    The truth is that defenestrating Labour leaders is so difficult that it never happens. SKS has it until he resigns.
    Which will be the day after GE 2023. Almost certainly early in May.

    At least he can look forward to summer 2023 relaxing as the successors fight it out.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 276
    edited October 5

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    You mean the *Corbynista* who not only voted for the Iraq War, but voted consistently against there being an inquiry into it? He's who Owen Jones, Bastani, Mason and co want to dethrone SKS?
  • Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    The initial effect of higher wages is to increase costs. You then need to improve productivity just to stand still - it doesn't follow that such an increase will happen automatically.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,018

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Ha ha. I've got a better chance of being the next Labour Party leader than Barry Gardiner. So have you (if you rejoin).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,668
    BBC News has UC cut at the very end of its broadcast.

    Hmmm...

    Beeb running scared of Tory government and Nadine???
  • See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    I expect Tory donors would sponsor his leadership bid
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587
    Certainly I expect Starmer do do better in Remain voting Tory marginals in London and the suburbs than in Leave voting Tory marginals in the Red Wall.

    That means he is unlikely to be able to gain enough Tory seats to even get a hung parliament let alone ensure Labour gets most seats. To become PM therefore he will likely need LD gains in Tory Remain seats in the South and SNP gains in Tory Remain seats in Scotland as well
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    He wouldn't do any better than Owen Smith did in 2016
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,018
    edited October 5

    BBC News has UC cut at the very end of its broadcast.

    Hmmm...

    Beeb running scared of Tory government and Nadine???

    I think that's been going on a while on BBC1 news, even before Nadine; it's very anodyne. They are very nervous. But interestingly, Newsnight has not yet been cowed, and is much more analytical/critical (depending on one's view) of the government. The government's probably less bothered because few of us watch it. One to watch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640

    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    I just think that in post industrial economies, and ours is very much that, it is very hard to get productivity growth. Increasing load size of lorries, or them driving faster may well be productivity increases, but not ones at the control of logistics companies, and there is only so much you can squeeze in turnaround times.

    When we turn to more pure service sectors such as increasing the productivity of a nurse, teacher or baby sitter, what do we actually mean?

    There is a good book on this by Vollrath, reviewed and discussed here:

    https://mattclancy.medium.com/fully-grown-a-review-a55719c6049c
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,755
    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,519
    isam said:

    65% of constituencies voted Leave I think

    Higher in this England, our England.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,880
    Not my area but IMO Conservative Remain areas have a far more fundamental question to face and that's housing affordability.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587

    If we're talking about Conservative remain constituencies its notable how have already been lost:

    Battersea
    Richmond Park
    Putney
    Bath
    Twickenham
    St Albans
    Enfield Southgate
    Oxford W
    Reading E
    Cardiff N
    Warwick
    Kingston
    Bristol NW
    Brighton Kemptown
    Canterbury

    Plus Gower, Weaver Vale, Croydon C and Bedford which voted Leave.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum_by_constituency

    We really have had quite an electoral churn during the last five years.

    I would expect though Starmer to win Remain seats like Kensington, Cities of London and Westminster and Chipping Barnet which only stayed Tory in 2019 to keep out Corbyn
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,944
    OT Does anyone know where I can find the Energy Price Cap actual kWh and standing charge unit prices region by region?

    The dumbed down £1,277 'price cap' figure is meaningless for me (and for everybody tbh).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
  • AslanAslan Posts: 735

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    If they did that, Britain should ban all French fishermen from UK waters.
  • There are so many things in the world where the more I learn, the less I realise I know.

    Sexuality has definitely been added to that list.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587

    Not my area but IMO Conservative Remain areas have a far more fundamental question to face and that's housing affordability.

    Most of them, especially outside of London, are still majority property owned outright or with a mortgage.

    They also can shift to the LDs not only due to Brexit but also too much building in the countryside eg Chesham and Amersham in the by election
  • Does France want Boris to win?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722
    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Something about a stretched twig...
  • AslanAslan Posts: 735

    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    The initial effect of higher wages is to increase costs. You then need to improve productivity just to stand still - it doesn't follow that such an increase will happen automatically.
    You need to improve productivity to stand still in terms of profitability, but overall productivity (which includes both corporate profit and wage returns to workers) goes up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511

    Does France want Boris to win?

    Probably.

    It is in their interests for "Global Britain" to flop, and BoZo in charge guarantees that
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,944

    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    The initial effect of higher wages is to increase costs. You then need to improve productivity just to stand still - it doesn't follow that such an increase will happen automatically.
    Indeed. And since all business are stricving to improve profitability all the time, why @Philip_Thompson thinks they'd wait until wage costs rise suddenly is beyond me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,668
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    If they did that, Britain should ban all French fishermen from UK waters.
    I cannot think of anything more likely to boost Tory/Leaver opinion than a French blockade. It will be Fuck You, Jonny Frog

    It will likely benefit Macron, pre election, and Boris
    Win, win then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722
    Scott_xP said:

    Does France want Boris to win?

    Probably.

    It is in their interests for "Global Britain" to flop, and BoZo in charge guarantees that
    He doesn't seem to have done too badly recently. The AUKUS deal came out of nowhere.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587
    edited October 5
    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,269

    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    Two things.

    First, as things stand, the act of putting GB in a potentially different market space to our neighbours inevitably puts a bit of friction and inefficiency in where it didn't exist before. It's possible that it unlocks other possibilities, but at the moment, we're not clear what they are.

    To take the HGV example, a driver who can drive freely around the whole of Europe will be more productive than one who is constrained in what they can do in the EEA. The first one has options that aren't open to the second. Their routes can be planned to be more productive and profitable. So the starting point is that British drivers have less productive potential now than they did in 2019. It may be possible to overcome that disadvantage, but that's not the starting point.

    (If the EU does issue 5000 5 year HGV visas, it will be an interesting experiment in how big that disadvantage is. Because it seems likely that those drivers will be worth more to their employers and be paid more as a result.)

    Second, let's unpick that "businesses will be forced to invest in boosting productivity" line. If such productivity boosts existed and were worthwhile, I would expect someone to be using them already. After all, lower cost workers + training / machinery ought to beat lower cost workers without such benefits. And if they don't, is the training/machinery much of a boon anyway?

    This is Thatcherite economics 101; if you have to bribe or force an industry into doing something, it's probably not worth doing. Because if it is worth doing, some bright entrepreneurial spark will do it and prosper mightily thereby.

    And without that, we're left with trying to buck the employment market by paying some groups of employees more than the financial value of their work can sustain. Which may be the right social aim, but we need to find another way of attaining that aim. Because Thatcherite economics 102 is the lesson about the buckability of the market.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Does France want Boris to win?

    Probably.

    It is in their interests for "Global Britain" to flop, and BoZo in charge guarantees that
    It guarantees that that's how you'll "report" it.

    There'll always be an FBPE tweet waiting for you.

    But do you really think France wants to help BJ beat SKS?!?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,557

    OT Does anyone know where I can find the Energy Price Cap actual kWh and standing charge unit prices region by region?

    The dumbed down £1,277 'price cap' figure is meaningless for me (and for everybody tbh).

    Apparently my solar panels are worth 48p per kWh at the moment, but I have no idea how to go about claiming it
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,755
    Scott_xP said:

    Does France want Boris to win?

    Probably.

    It is in their interests for "Global Britain" to flop, and BoZo in charge guarantees that
    A couple of years ago Macron said that people who underestimate Boris Johnson will continue to get it wrong. It's perhaps a mistake he made himself.
  • Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    If they did that, Britain should ban all French fishermen from UK waters.
    I cannot think of anything more likely to boost Tory/Leaver opinion than a French blockade. It will be Fuck You, Jonny Frog

    It will likely benefit Macron, pre election, and Boris
    Ah yes. I was thinking Macron would want what's best for France.

    Of course, he wants what's best for Emmanuel.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350
    Olivier Lepretre is no more a representative of France than Karen Betts is of the UK.
    Amazing how the Mail is able to whip some people up into an instant froth.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,944
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,269

    BBC News has UC cut at the very end of its broadcast.

    Hmmm...

    Beeb running scared of Tory government and Nadine???

    Either that or deep cunning.

    In most experiences- like a lesson, say, we remember the beginning and the end. The bits in between, not so much. (I think the same goes for adverts in commercial breaks, to the extent that the first and last spots in a break cost more.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,668

    OT Does anyone know where I can find the Energy Price Cap actual kWh and standing charge unit prices region by region?

    The dumbed down £1,277 'price cap' figure is meaningless for me (and for everybody tbh).

    My new elec will be 25p a kWh from November according to an email I have had.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,476
    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    It's a tabloid using the word "could", so usual rule applies.

    How are those three defectors coming along?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,519
    edited October 5

    FPT -

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?

    You said quite a lot in the post about abuse.

    I really wanted to like it, but I didn't agree with all of it. I don't think making misogyny a crime would be particularly helpful. And I'd certainly be uncomfortable with making it a crime without also making misandry one. Having different laws for men and women feels a bit, well, Sharia to me.
    It's a bit misleading, I think, how this is being reported. The proposition isn't to create a new crime of misogyny. It's to allow misogyny - like racism, which is not a crime - to be an aggravating factor in crime sentencing. Possibly also a ramification in the area of "hate speech" but I'm not sure about that.
    I agree, and also agree with Cyclefree that if we are to have "hate crimes" then they should include misogynistic ones. I'd prefer there not to be "hate crimes", and have these things as aggravating factors. And if misogyny is one, misandry must be also, even if it is a tiny problem in comparison.

    I don't know, but I assume anti-white motivated racist attacks must treated as "hate crimes" too?
    The law is framed generally, I believe, so a violent attack on a straight white man because he was straight and white would be an aggravated offence.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350

    BBC News has UC cut at the very end of its broadcast.

    Hmmm...

    Beeb running scared of Tory government and Nadine???

    Either that or deep cunning.

    In most experiences- like a lesson, say, we remember the beginning and the end. The bits in between, not so much. (I think the same goes for adverts in commercial breaks, to the extent that the first and last spots in a break cost more.)
    Recency bias. Spot on.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722
    edited October 5

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    Isn't it just the French playing silly buggers because they can no longer freely fish in UK waters?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 735

    Foxy said:

    I agree the brexit factor will play a part and if Boris has been seen to increase wages and we have made progress on trade deals then brexit and the lib dems perceived advantage will be diminished, but if not then yes it could play well for the lib dems

    Too early to call in my opinion

    Yes, but as payrises spread into other areas, and into pensions via the triple lock, without increased output, then it is loss of competitiveness in the economy, which then sucks in imports (from trade deals, like Australian meat) and depreciation of Sterling.

    Unless payrises are for more output, they alter only the distribution of the economy, not its size. So a levelling up in one place is a levelling down in another. If those places levelled down are in the Blue SE Shires, then the header is quite ominous.
    Why would there not be an increase in productivity?

    As costs for labour get competitively driven up it becomes in businesses interests to look at where they can boost productivity. Can they invest in new infrastructure, new equipment etc

    Technology is constantly adapting, do you really think boosting productivity is impossible? Higher wages incentivises higher investment.
    Two things.

    First, as things stand, the act of putting GB in a potentially different market space to our neighbours inevitably puts a bit of friction and inefficiency in where it didn't exist before. It's possible that it unlocks other possibilities, but at the moment, we're not clear what they are.

    To take the HGV example, a driver who can drive freely around the whole of Europe will be more productive than one who is constrained in what they can do in the EEA. The first one has options that aren't open to the second. Their routes can be planned to be more productive and profitable. So the starting point is that British drivers have less productive potential now than they did in 2019. It may be possible to overcome that disadvantage, but that's not the starting point.

    (If the EU does issue 5000 5 year HGV visas, it will be an interesting experiment in how big that disadvantage is. Because it seems likely that those drivers will be worth more to their employers and be paid more as a result.)

    Second, let's unpick that "businesses will be forced to invest in boosting productivity" line. If such productivity boosts existed and were worthwhile, I would expect someone to be using them already. After all, lower cost workers + training / machinery ought to beat lower cost workers without such benefits. And if they don't, is the training/machinery much of a boon anyway?

    This is Thatcherite economics 101; if you have to bribe or force an industry into doing something, it's probably not worth doing. Because if it is worth doing, some bright entrepreneurial spark will do it and prosper mightily thereby.

    And without that, we're left with trying to buck the employment market by paying some groups of employees more than the financial value of their work can sustain. Which may be the right social aim, but we need to find another way of attaining that aim. Because Thatcherite economics 102 is the lesson about the buckability of the market.
    Just because something is economically rational as an investment in a high labor cost scenario doesn't mean it is rational to do in a low labor cost scenario. There is a reason why the northern US industrialized far earlier than the southern US. The North had high labor costs while the South had cheap labor costs due to slavery.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    BBC News has UC cut at the very end of its broadcast.

    Hmmm...

    Beeb running scared of Tory government and Nadine???

    Either that or deep cunning.

    In most experiences- like a lesson, say, we remember the beginning and the end. The bits in between, not so much. (I think the same goes for adverts in commercial breaks, to the extent that the first and last spots in a break cost more.)
    Also people will use the advert break to go and do stuff (toilet, kettle, etc), missing most of the adverts in the middle.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,755
    Farooq said:

    Olivier Lepretre is no more a representative of France than Karen Betts is of the UK.
    Amazing how the Mail is able to whip some people up into an instant froth.

    Clement Beaune is a representative of the French government and has been making threats aimed at coercing the UK into giving more fishing licences.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,880
    HYUFD said:

    Not my area but IMO Conservative Remain areas have a far more fundamental question to face and that's housing affordability.

    Most of them, especially outside of London, are still majority property owned outright or with a mortgage.

    They also can shift to the LDs not only due to Brexit but also too much building in the countryside eg Chesham and Amersham in the by election
    I'm not sure that Conservative voting middle aged and oldies will be quite so relaxed when they realise their children and grandchildren will be unable to live in the area they grew up.

    Having your offspring slide down the socioeconomic ladder would be a social faux pas equivalent to being banned from Waitrose.
  • I've seen FBPE Brits on Twitter today applauding apparent threats (I've no idea how real they are) by France to cut off their electricity to us.

    Apparently they think we deserve that threat and it will teach us for daring to Brexit.

    Are there any EU supporters here that feel that way?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,476

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Ha ha. I've got a better chance of being the next Labour Party leader than Barry Gardiner. So have you (if you rejoin).
    I chatted to him at Conference and regretted that he wasn't currently a shadow - he was suitably loyal, said it was a matter for Keir and personally he was happy getting stuck into the fire-and-rehire issue (whereby companies with lots of low-skilled workers routinely dismiss them before they get secure employment rights, then let them come back as "new staters").
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100
    Drinks in Soho, tonight, with a Remain voting friend who would now vote Leave

    Mainly because of European hostility, esp from France

    This is to balance my Leave voting friend who told me, last week, he regrets his vote!

    It is a very fluid situation
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,519
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    It doesn't bear thinking about. End of Johnson if it happens. Not even he would be able to spin Christmas dinner out of a tin as a Brexit dividend.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,880
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,018

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Ha ha. I've got a better chance of being the next Labour Party leader than Barry Gardiner. So have you (if you rejoin).
    I chatted to him at Conference and regretted that he wasn't currently a shadow - he was suitably loyal, said it was a matter for Keir and personally he was happy getting stuck into the fire-and-rehire issue (whereby companies with lots of low-skilled workers routinely dismiss them before they get secure employment rights, then let them come back as "new staters").
    Yes, don't misunderstand me - I quite like Barry. I was merely pointing out that he has zero chance of being next leader.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,476

    FPT -

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?

    You said quite a lot in the post about abuse.

    I really wanted to like it, but I didn't agree with all of it. I don't think making misogyny a crime would be particularly helpful. And I'd certainly be uncomfortable with making it a crime without also making misandry one. Having different laws for men and women feels a bit, well, Sharia to me.
    It's a bit misleading, I think, how this is being reported. The proposition isn't to create a new crime of misogyny. It's to allow misogyny - like racism, which is not a crime - to be an aggravating factor in crime sentencing. Possibly also a ramification in the area of "hate speech" but I'm not sure about that.
    I agree, and also agree with Cyclefree that if we are to have "hate crimes" then they should include misogynistic ones. I'd prefer there not to be "hate crimes", and have these things as aggravatingit pro factors. And if misogyny is one, misandry must be also, even if it is a tiny problem in comparison.

    I don't know, but I assume anti-white motivated racist attacks must treated as "hate crimes" too?
    Yes, the law is neutral on the identity of the race prompting attacks. I also think that "aggravating factor" is the way to go - I don't much mind someone being prejudiced about something about me if it doesn't lead them to criminal activity, but if it does lead them to bashing me over the head, then probably they're a menace to everyone in the same group - thus more serious than if they merely don't like me as an individual.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    the increase in Gas production in Norway, do we get any of that or does it all go to the EU?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 735

    FPT -

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?

    You said quite a lot in the post about abuse.

    I really wanted to like it, but I didn't agree with all of it. I don't think making misogyny a crime would be particularly helpful. And I'd certainly be uncomfortable with making it a crime without also making misandry one. Having different laws for men and women feels a bit, well, Sharia to me.
    It's a bit misleading, I think, how this is being reported. The proposition isn't to create a new crime of misogyny. It's to allow misogyny - like racism, which is not a crime - to be an aggravating factor in crime sentencing. Possibly also a ramification in the area of "hate speech" but I'm not sure about that.
    I agree, and also agree with Cyclefree that if we are to have "hate crimes" then they should include misogynistic ones. I'd prefer there not to be "hate crimes", and have these things as aggravatingit pro factors. And if misogyny is one, misandry must be also, even if it is a tiny problem in comparison.

    I don't know, but I assume anti-white motivated racist attacks must treated as "hate crimes" too?
    Yes, the law is neutral on the identity of the race prompting attacks. I also think that "aggravating factor" is the way to go - I don't much mind someone being prejudiced about something about me if it doesn't lead them to criminal activity, but if it does lead them to bashing me over the head, then probably they're a menace to everyone in the same group - thus more serious than if they merely don't like me as an individual.
    Presumably the new "misogyny" law would also apply equally to "misandry"?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    No, it won't. Sorry
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587
    edited October 5
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    Why should they miss out on Christmas? They can easily buy British turkey, British potatoes, British stuffing, British cauliflower and carrots, British cranberry sauce, British Christmas puddings and British cheeses like stilton and wensleydale can be consumed instead of French cheeses. It would just be a bumper Christmas for British farmers and Australian and South African wine producers if French fishermen prevent EU food and drink exports to GB
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    See some in the PLP trying to get Barry Gardiner to challenge SKS.

    Not a huge fan but anyone is better than SKS

    Ha ha. I've got a better chance of being the next Labour Party leader than Barry Gardiner. So have you (if you rejoin).
    I chatted to him at Conference and regretted that he wasn't currently a shadow - he was suitably loyal, said it was a matter for Keir and personally he was happy getting stuck into the fire-and-rehire issue (whereby companies with lots of low-skilled workers routinely dismiss them before they get secure employment rights, then let them come back as "new staters").
    Yes, don't misunderstand me - I quite like Barry. I was merely pointing out that he has zero chance of being next leader.
    He sounds, creepy.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 735

    FPT -

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?

    You said quite a lot in the post about abuse.

    I really wanted to like it, but I didn't agree with all of it. I don't think making misogyny a crime would be particularly helpful. And I'd certainly be uncomfortable with making it a crime without also making misandry one. Having different laws for men and women feels a bit, well, Sharia to me.
    It's a bit misleading, I think, how this is being reported. The proposition isn't to create a new crime of misogyny. It's to allow misogyny - like racism, which is not a crime - to be an aggravating factor in crime sentencing. Possibly also a ramification in the area of "hate speech" but I'm not sure about that.
    I agree, and also agree with Cyclefree that if we are to have "hate crimes" then they should include misogynistic ones. I'd prefer there not to be "hate crimes", and have these things as aggravatingit pro factors. And if misogyny is one, misandry must be also, even if it is a tiny problem in comparison.

    I don't know, but I assume anti-white motivated racist attacks must treated as "hate crimes" too?
    Yes, the law is neutral on the identity of the race prompting attacks. I also think that "aggravating factor" is the way to go - I don't much mind someone being prejudiced about something about me if it doesn't lead them to criminal activity, but if it does lead them to bashing me over the head, then probably they're a menace to everyone in the same group - thus more serious than if they merely don't like me as an individual.
    Also, on this logic, misanthropy should be worse than other prejudicies.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,768

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
    You're not eating the right stilton then. Cropwell Bishop is sublime.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    It's a tabloid using the word "could", so usual rule applies.

    How are those three defectors coming along?
    Outside of the Tory and Momentum dirty tricks units, in the real world, it’s not impossible some high profile lefties could jump to the Greens?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,944
    edited October 5
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    No, it won't. Sorry
    No, probably not. Just a shite decade of disruption and decline ahead then. ☹️

    Edit: the Scots will certainly realise it. And the Northern Irish and Welsh probably. By which time it will be little England all alone going down the drain.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
    You're not eating the right stilton then. Cropwell Bishop is sublime.
    Anyone tried STICHELTON?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,593
    Aslan said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    If they did that, Britain should ban all French fishermen from UK waters.
    They then turn off our energy pipeline, great plan. Still its not Christmas without candles.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,288
    gealbhan said:

    the increase in Gas production in Norway, do we get any of that or does it all go to the EU?

    I believe our main sources of Gas are the British bits of the North Sea, the Norwegian bits of the North Sea and LNG from the Gulf, so I'd expect an increase in Norwegian production to be available to the British market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587
    edited October 5

    HYUFD said:

    Not my area but IMO Conservative Remain areas have a far more fundamental question to face and that's housing affordability.

    Most of them, especially outside of London, are still majority property owned outright or with a mortgage.

    They also can shift to the LDs not only due to Brexit but also too much building in the countryside eg Chesham and Amersham in the by election
    I'm not sure that Conservative voting middle aged and oldies will be quite so relaxed when they realise their children and grandchildren will be unable to live in the area they grew up.

    Having your offspring slide down the socioeconomic ladder would be a social faux pas equivalent to being banned from Waitrose.
    They will inherit and many wealthy Conservative voters in the Home Counties have children who work in the city and can afford to buy property still in their area or can provide them with the funds they need for a deposit.

    Yes we need some new affordable housing for locals to buy in the Home Counties to avoid Tory seats falling to Labour but build too much in the countryside and greenbelt and Nimbys will ensure Tory seats fall to the LDs anyway, so either way you do not get a Tory MP backing a Tory PM
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
    My local Whole Foods does amazing Cropwell Bishop Stilton. Rich, creamy, tangy, mmmmmmm

    As this level it is possibly the best blue cheese in the world. Not cheap, tho, but nor is a brilliant slab of Roquefort
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    Why should they miss out on Christmas? They can easily buy British turkey, British potatoes, British stuffing, British cauliflower and carrots, British cranberry sauce, British Christmas puddings and British cheeses like stilton and wensleydale can be consumed instead of French cheeses. It would just be a bumper Christmas for British farmers and Australian and South African wine producers if French fishermen prevent EU food and drink exports to GB
    Liz Truss, are you reading? Your time is now! We'll soon be importing 0% of our cheese. That is no disgrace!
    [stands up and starts singing Land of Hope and Glory]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    No, it won't. Sorry
    No, probably not. Just a shite decade of disruption and decline ahead then. ☹️

    Edit: the Scots will certainly realise it. And the Northern Irish and Welsh probably. By which time it will be little England all alone going down the drain.
    On today's Comres there was little difference between English and Scottish views of Brexit.

    Plus of course as long as the Tories are in power there will be no indyref2 allowed anyway, if Starmer becomes PM however it will be with Scottish and Welsh votes
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,944
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    Isn't it just the French playing silly buggers because they can no longer freely fish in UK waters?
    This issue is. But it's just one piece of disruption after another.

    Reminds me of the jolly old Winter of Discontent.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    Why should they miss out on Christmas? They can easily buy British turkey, British potatoes, British stuffing, British cauliflower and carrots, British cranberry sauce, British Christmas puddings and British cheeses like stilton and wensleydale can be consumed instead of French cheeses. It would just be a bumper Christmas for British farmers and Australian and South African wine producers if French fishermen prevent EU food and drink exports to GB
    I’m talking about the damage caused by the panic this paper is instigating, the stampede for fuel last week, a similar panic for all things Christmas, the panic essentially making it hard work and even more stressful.

    Can’t you see it flashing in large lights imported from Timbuktu out the front of the page?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    gealbhan said:

    the increase in Gas production in Norway, do we get any of that or does it all go to the EU?

    We are receiving hydro electric power from Norway now at a connector coming ashore in Blyth in an exclusive UK - Norway deal
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,384
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
    You're not eating the right stilton then. Cropwell Bishop is sublime.
    Anyone tried STICHELTON?
    Is that an exercise bike?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    HYUFD said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    Why should they miss out on Christmas? They can easily buy British turkey, British potatoes, British stuffing, British cauliflower and carrots, British cranberry sauce, British Christmas puddings and British cheeses like stilton and wensleydale can be consumed instead of French cheeses. It would just be a bumper Christmas for British farmers and Australian and South African wine producers if French fishermen prevent EU food and drink exports to GB
    Exactly
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,593

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    Stilton is overrated, Shropshire Blue is superior.
    Buxton Blue for me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,768
    kinabalu said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    No. You are completely missing it. Take another look. Fuel stockpiling madness stoked by front pages like this. The front of this paper is saying other families are stockpiling for Christmas what are you going to do wait till it’s too late?

    If the Mail gets away with this and it takes hold, it will dwarf closed petrol pumps and bog roll banditry. Your family missing out on Christmas has the most strong emotive pull.
    It doesn't bear thinking about. End of Johnson if it happens. Not even he would be able to spin Christmas dinner out of a tin as a Brexit dividend.
    Off Topic anecdote alert.

    The huge Tesco on Western Avenue in Cardiff had a rather forlorn looking seasonal aisle this evening. I just assumed the lazy staff hadn't restocked the shelves. To be fair I really don't need a bumper tin of Quality Street, so good on Johnson.

    Mrs Mexicanpete visiting her mother in her old people's home found the Manager making Mother-In-Law's breakfast. Staff shortages to the bone apparently. They must have all retrained as HGV tanker drivers.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,350
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “French threat to sink Xmas”
    image

    OOOOH

    WARRRR
    Looks like we will just have to swap stilton for brie and drink English and Australian wines.

    Who has French Turkey and French Christmas puddings anyway? It is normally British all the way
    At some point the penny will drop on a clear majority of the population that we're suffering a series of self-inflicted wounds, which HMG is doing f*ck-all to heal.
    No, it won't. Sorry
    No, probably not. Just a shite decade of disruption and decline ahead then. ☹️

    Edit: the Scots will certainly realise it. And the Northern Irish and Welsh probably. By which time it will be little England all alone going down the drain.
    On today's Comres there was little difference between English and Scottish views of Brexit.

    Plus of course as long as the Tories are in power there will be no indyref2 allowed anyway, if Starmer becomes PM however it will be with Scottish and Welsh votes
    You are Cato the Elder, and I claim my five denarii

    Moreover, I advise that Carthage must be destroyed
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited October 5

    gealbhan said:

    the increase in Gas production in Norway, do we get any of that or does it all go to the EU?

    We are receiving hydro electric power from Norway now at a connector coming ashore in Blyth in an exclusive UK - Norway deal
    🤙 That’s a win.

    But not good news on the extra Norway gas then, Dozy Daisy gets it?

    Can the UK build some like giant gas jerrycan things?

    Your the one Big G who suggested two weeks ago, new gas combi is the only future proof option.

    It’s been a long two weeks, any second thoughts?

    Governments been planting story’s in the press about plans for a gas attack
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