Starmer’s challenge: LAB starts in an almost impossible position – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What are you all complaining about?

    You're getting to hear a top lawyer speak for 90mins for FREE and you're complaining.

    You lot don't know how lucky you are.

    Telling you consider hearing a lawyer speak a privilege for us :)
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    "Make Brexit work"
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,867
    The greater proportion of tax burden should not fall on working people.

    Is that even remotely possible if taken literally?
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,357
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Bit disingenuous there. Claiming he was shocked when he found out 98% of rape cases don't end in a criminal conviction.

    What was he doing all that time he was DPP and head of the CPS?

    These have been the same numbers for years. Did he not know what was going on when he was the man responsible for prosecutions?

    The numbers do not appear to be identical.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/23/rape-conviction-rate-high
    (2013)...In raw figures, there were 3,692 prosecutions for rape last year, resulting in 2,333 convictions...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/23/fewer-than-one-in-60-cases-lead-to-charge-in-england-and-wales
    (2020) ...While there were 52,210 rapes recorded by police in England and Wales in 2020, only 843 resulted in a charge or a summons – a rate of 1.6%..
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,309
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer's speech generally good overall in terms of targeting swing voters, apart from that bit he just did where he attacked Boris for reintroducing Latin in state schools which was a bit philistine

    Perhaps. In the long term, both parties need to recognise that introducing or increasing modern work skills to the national curriculum will mean squeezing out old stuff whether that be Latin or oxbow lakes or the unification of Italy.
    How can Latin be squeezed out when it is not taught in the State sector?

    What he has missed on that one is that a large majority of European countries teach Latin. It is about culture and thinking; but he's chosen the cheap mudslinging option.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Words I never want to hear again

    Sir kyrr Starmer saying ‘and let me give you an example’
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.
  • glw
    glw Posts: 10,463
    edited September 2021
    rottenborough said:

    3% of GDP on R&D.

    Actual policy alert.

    That's a US level for R&D spending. I can't see a Labour government offering similar business and financial terms to support it. Are Labour going to let such investors get filthy rich? Are they going to change the law so that businesses that fail and the people that run them can rapidly bounce back? And they going to offer the massive tax breaks you can get in the US at Federal and State level?

    Nice target, but I really would be surprised to see Labour adopt policies that would see the UK catch up with the US. Labour usually condemns such stuff.
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1443186188626583554

    Keir will be delighted
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,808
    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    It's...fine. It's not set your world on fire but it's not bad, I'd put him somewhere between Attlee and Blair
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.


    Started well, now crap
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    Leon said:

    Words I never want to hear again

    Sir kyrr Starmer saying ‘and let me give you an example’

    My Dad taught me to?

    Be a boring Twat
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,867
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,808
    kle4 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What are you all complaining about?

    You're getting to hear a top lawyer speak for 90mins for FREE and you're complaining.

    You lot don't know how lucky you are.

    Telling you consider hearing a lawyer speak a privilege for us :)
    Yup, nearly as good as ready a lawyer's words on a regular basis.
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rottenborough said:

    The greater proportion of tax burden should not fall on working people.

    Is that even remotely possible if taken literally?

    Yes absolutely 100% possible.

    Tax unearned income at the same rate as earned income.

    I won't hold my breath for Labour to actually mean that though, but if they did I'd lend them my vote.
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    It's...fine. It's not set your world on fire but it's not bad, I'd put him somewhere between Attlee and Blair
    More between IDS and Sooty
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What are you all complaining about?

    You're getting to hear a top lawyer speak for 90mins for FREE and you're complaining.

    You lot don't know how lucky you are.

    Telling you consider hearing a lawyer speak a privilege for us :)
    Yup, nearly as good as ready a lawyer's words on a regular basis.
    I give thanks every day.
  • Alistair
    Alistair Posts: 23,670
    Filled up at Sainsbury's, bust but nothing out of the ordinary queue wise. However did have one fellow filling up a petrol can on foot and another person who had apparently never used a petrol station before and stopped at the first available pump rather than pulling forward to the next free pump.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,291
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer's speech generally good overall in terms of targeting swing voters, apart from that bit he just did where he attacked Boris for reintroducing Latin in state schools which was a bit philistine

    Perhaps. In the long term, both parties need to recognise that introducing or increasing modern work skills to the national curriculum will mean squeezing out old stuff whether that be Latin or oxbow lakes or the unification of Italy.
    Studying pronouns could be good training for the modern workplace.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Bit disingenuous there. Claiming he was shocked when he found out 98% of rape cases don't end in a criminal conviction.

    What was he doing all that time he was DPP and head of the CPS?

    These have been the same numbers for years. Did he not know what was going on when he was the man responsible for prosecutions?

    The numbers do not appear to be identical.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/23/rape-conviction-rate-high
    (2013)...In raw figures, there were 3,692 prosecutions for rape last year, resulting in 2,333 convictions...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/23/fewer-than-one-in-60-cases-lead-to-charge-in-england-and-wales
    (2020) ...While there were 52,210 rapes recorded by police in England and Wales in 2020, only 843 resulted in a charge or a summons – a rate of 1.6%..
    That is a clever little trick you did there given that those two stats are completely different.

    The 2013 number is the the number of prosecutions which led to a conviction.
    The 2020 number is the number of accusations that led to a charge

    They are measuring completely different things.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    edited September 2021
    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
    Why didn’t he stay there? He’s now sounding like a kind of well-meaning middle-management Lib Dem version of ceaucescu, with a 3 hour speech to dutifully applauding party apparatchiks
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,867
    Pidcock looking miserable.

    Sir K is working well.
  • noneoftheabove
    noneoftheabove Posts: 24,858
    rottenborough said:

    The greater proportion of tax burden should not fall on working people.

    Is that even remotely possible if taken literally?

    Yes because burden relates to fairness as well as the amount of money.

    Someone on UC has a bigger tax burden than a multi millionaire, imo.

    Burden = cause (someone) worry, hardship, or distress.
  • WhisperingOracle
    WhisperingOracle Posts: 10,470
    edited September 2021
    bigjohnowls said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    It's...fine. It's not set your world on fire but it's not bad, I'd put him somewhere between Attlee and Blair
    More between IDS and Sooty
    Very funny image. To be fair, IDS's "quiet man" speech is one on the funniest things I've ever seen in politics, whereas I'd place the effectiveness of this speech so far more between Howard and early Cameron.
  • Selebian
    Selebian Posts: 9,544
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    RobD said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    That 150/170 stat is shocking. I hope someone's checked it. (Actually, for the sake of the country, I hope it is wrong.)

    For those not watching it, what was the stat?
    150th out of 170 countries in investment.
    Thanks, I also missed that bit.

    I'm sure there's a way of measuring investment that makes it right (they'll have been careful, I hope!). Might not be the most valid of measurements.

    You can get almost any figure if you ask exactly the right question.
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    Best 3 words of speech so far

    GREEN NEW DEAL

    gets standing ovation.

    Pity he didnt want it discussed at Conference
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,867
    Leon said:

    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
    Why didn’t he stay there? He’s now sounding like a kind of well-meaning middle-management Lib Dem version of ceaucescu, with a 3 hour speech to dutifully applauding party apparatchiks
    I think he wants to make sure he says as much as he can that is in the infamous essay, otherwise he has wasted a summer. :smiley:
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.


    Started well, now crap
    The problem is that those he needs to impress will have fallen asleep and he just seems to be rambling

    I have no idea how it will be reported with the shocking news on Sarah Everard and the media likely covering the heckling

    However, Starmer has proved he is the best leader for labour at this time
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,309
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    That 150/170 stat is shocking. I hope someone's checked it. (Actually, for the sake of the country, I hope it is wrong.)

    Where is it from? I don't believe that one, unless it is very carefully cherry-picked.
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,357
    edited September 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Bit disingenuous there. Claiming he was shocked when he found out 98% of rape cases don't end in a criminal conviction.

    What was he doing all that time he was DPP and head of the CPS?

    These have been the same numbers for years. Did he not know what was going on when he was the man responsible for prosecutions?

    The numbers do not appear to be identical.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/23/rape-conviction-rate-high
    (2013)...In raw figures, there were 3,692 prosecutions for rape last year, resulting in 2,333 convictions...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/23/fewer-than-one-in-60-cases-lead-to-charge-in-england-and-wales
    (2020) ...While there were 52,210 rapes recorded by police in England and Wales in 2020, only 843 resulted in a charge or a summons – a rate of 1.6%..
    That year, obviously, was heavily impacted by the pandemic, but the number of prosecutions for the previous year (2019/20) was 1,867.

    Also, the number of rapes reported has grown massively since 2013, so Starmer was being nowhere near as disingenuous as suggested.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Philip_Thompson said:

    rottenborough said:

    The greater proportion of tax burden should not fall on working people.

    Is that even remotely possible if taken literally?

    Yes absolutely 100% possible.

    Tax unearned income at the same rate as earned income.

    I won't hold my breath for Labour to actually mean that though, but if they did I'd lend them my vote.
    I agree but I think the question is whether the amount of unearned income is greater than the amount of earned income which is what he seems to be claiming? I have no idea about that.
  • Daveyboy1961
    Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,726
    Leon said:

    An hour in and he tells us

    ‘We have to build a strong economy’

    Ffs

    It's a shame the present government is going in the opposite direction there.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    bigjohnowls said:

    Best 3 words of speech so far

    GREEN NEW DEAL

    gets standing ovation.

    Pity he didnt want it discussed at Conference

    Three words that mean…

    Exactly what everyone listening wants them to mean?
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer will have us exercising every morning like in 1984.

    We've heard the from the loony left now it's UKIP's turn.

    It's a close run think but I'd give it to the hecklers -just.
  • WhisperingOracle
    WhisperingOracle Posts: 10,470
    edited September 2021
    bigjohnowls said:

    Best 3 words of speech so far

    GREEN NEW DEAL

    gets standing ovation.

    Pity he didnt want it discussed at Conference

    All Ed Miliband's work, and both left and right of the party standing to applaud. As I've mentioned many times, the centre of the party, not Mandelsonianism, will ultimately be what is essential for Starmer.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Superb shot of desperate audience member yawning. Now someone asleep

    Hahahaha
  • Stocky
    Stocky Posts: 10,337
    rottenborough said:

    Leon said:

    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
    Why didn’t he stay there? He’s now sounding like a kind of well-meaning middle-management Lib Dem version of ceaucescu, with a 3 hour speech to dutifully applauding party apparatchiks
    I think he wants to make sure he says as much as he can that is in the infamous essay, otherwise he has wasted a summer. :smiley:
    Is he reading this off something we can't see? Otherwise, remembering all of this and delivering it so well is seriously impressive.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Sandpit, aye. It'll warm the cockles of their hearts when the electricity fails because the wind isn't blowing enough. Or is blowing too much.
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    I said it before.

    Keir Starmer has not looked to Blair, or Corbyn, for inspiration.

    He has looked to David Cameron.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Have seen one of his heckle retorts about it usually being Tories who heckle him on a Wednesday - very good, ties in the idea that they are being the Tories' helpers.
  • Mexicanpete
    Mexicanpete Posts: 33,115
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Leon said:

    This is seriously trite now

    Totally forgettable. The only really memorable bit (to date) is his excellent put-down of the hecklers - ‘changing nations, not changing slogans’

    That’s what people will take-away. Might be rather good for Labour

    He is becoming boring because his speech is too long
    Only the soundbites will make the news headlines, so if they are ok...
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,309
    Boris & friends are going to have to sort out their Green PR.

    Starmer is positioning to claim credit for the significant things that have already been achieved.

    Such as the UK being approx. on track for the 1.5C level, an about the only significant economy to be so.
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,357
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Bit disingenuous there. Claiming he was shocked when he found out 98% of rape cases don't end in a criminal conviction.

    What was he doing all that time he was DPP and head of the CPS?

    These have been the same numbers for years. Did he not know what was going on when he was the man responsible for prosecutions?

    The numbers do not appear to be identical.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/23/rape-conviction-rate-high
    (2013)...In raw figures, there were 3,692 prosecutions for rape last year, resulting in 2,333 convictions...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/23/fewer-than-one-in-60-cases-lead-to-charge-in-england-and-wales
    (2020) ...While there were 52,210 rapes recorded by police in England and Wales in 2020, only 843 resulted in a charge or a summons – a rate of 1.6%..
    That is a clever little trick you did there given that those two stats are completely different.

    The 2013 number is the the number of prosecutions which led to a conviction.
    The 2020 number is the number of accusations that led to a charge

    They are measuring completely different things.
    I was comparing the number of prosecutions brought. The difference is obvious.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    What are these red cards about ?
  • Slackbladder
    Slackbladder Posts: 9,800
    New labour reborn...
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Praising the Blair years, thank God
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    They're going wild.....someone wake up BJO
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Stocky said:

    rottenborough said:

    Leon said:

    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
    Why didn’t he stay there? He’s now sounding like a kind of well-meaning middle-management Lib Dem version of ceaucescu, with a 3 hour speech to dutifully applauding party apparatchiks
    I think he wants to make sure he says as much as he can that is in the infamous essay, otherwise he has wasted a summer. :smiley:
    Is he reading this off something we can't see? Otherwise, remembering all of this and delivering it so well is seriously impressive.
    He turns from left to right to left again, like anyone reading a speech from two invisible plastic screens - as is normal these days
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,808
    Standing ovation for Mark Drakeford after Starmer mentions him.
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,309
    WhisperingOracle said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Best 3 words of speech so far

    GREEN NEW DEAL

    gets standing ovation.

    Pity he didnt want it discussed at Conference

    All Ed Miliband's work, and both left and right of the party standing to applaud. As I've mentioned many times, the centre of the party, not Mandelsonianism, will be key for Starmer.
    Do we have a link to what this means?

    There a lot of versions of it around.
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    rottenborough said:

    Leon said:

    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot watch it, how is his delivery? I confess his voice is slightly annoying to me in some undefinable way, but its not a big deal.

    His cadence is good.
    He was excellent in the emotional story bits. Very well rehearsed I would say.
    Why didn’t he stay there? He’s now sounding like a kind of well-meaning middle-management Lib Dem version of ceaucescu, with a 3 hour speech to dutifully applauding party apparatchiks
    I think he wants to make sure he says as much as he can that is in the infamous essay, otherwise he has wasted a summer. :smiley:
    Is he reading this off something we can't see? Otherwise, remembering all of this and delivering it so well is seriously impressive.
    There's two visible teleprompters just ahead of him.
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Now this, this is good.
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    It is sooooo nice to hear a Labour leader celebrating the achievements of Labour in government.
  • eek
    eek Posts: 30,708
    Sandpit said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Best 3 words of speech so far

    GREEN NEW DEAL

    gets standing ovation.

    Pity he didnt want it discussed at Conference

    Three words that mean…

    Exactly what everyone listening wants them to mean?
    Yep, never put context and content to a buzz phrase...
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    This is a new start for Labour. I really believe it.

    Maybe Keir Starmer won't win - but he has plotted a course for Labour back to power.
  • Slackbladder
    Slackbladder Posts: 9,800
    Starmer will rue the day he goes after the SNP!!
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    edited September 2021
    Just flipped the radio on. Genuinely no idea if it is/was SKS or Ed Milliband talking. Talking about Labour achievements - when? And how wages have gone down under the Cons - not according to the ONS they haven't.

    What's going on???

    Edit: the audience were loving it tho
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Starmer good on the union
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Leon said:

    Superb shot of desperate audience member yawning. Now someone asleep

    Hahahaha

    At least they have't done that stupid thing of putting a crowd behind the speaker so when one of them drops off you can see it prominently.
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Standing ovation for Mark Drakeford after Starmer mentions him.

    BigG gone off SKS now!!

    OK I cant watch anymore he is crap
  • TheValiant
    TheValiant Posts: 2,018
    Philip_Thompson said:


    If he was so decent why was he prepared to stand with the far left and stand against those who were opposing antisemitism in 2019? Why did he put his career before saying that antisemitism is wrong?

    Probably the same reason Corbyn and his rabble didn't leave in the 1990s. They were biding their time, just as the more moderate wing of Labour had to bide theirs.

    You can't just leave a party you don't agree with at the current time (well, you can, but you'll achieve very little unless you really are lucky). You wait and try and change it back to your vision of what Labour should be.

  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    edited September 2021
    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Interesting attack on Sturgeon
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    I think it has been bold to mention an opposition slogan, eg levelling up, so prominently. Can go wrong to air your opponents' messaging, but they must see a weakness there given its vagueness.
  • CorrectHorseBattery
    CorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    If Keir Starmer had quit under Corbyn he'd have never become the leader and would never have been able to fix Labour.
  • Selebian
    Selebian Posts: 9,544
    Pulpstar said:

    What are these red cards about ?

    https://www.facebook.com/Labouragainstthewitchhunt/posts/1511873375830547 ?
    Not sure, otherwise.

    Given red is Labour's colour, it's a wee bit ambiguous.
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    This is seriously trite now

    Totally forgettable. The only really memorable bit (to date) is his excellent put-down of the hecklers - ‘changing nations, not changing slogans’

    That’s what people will take-away. Might be rather good for Labour

    A slogan about a slogan. An advertisers dream
  • Daveyboy1961
    Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,726
    Alistair said:

    Filled up at Sainsbury's, bust but nothing out of the ordinary queue wise. However did have one fellow filling up a petrol can on foot and another person who had apparently never used a petrol station before and stopped at the first available pump rather than pulling forward to the next free pump.

    I hate it when they do that.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Better now on the union and on celebrating New Labour
  • maaarsh
    maaarsh Posts: 3,602
    edited September 2021
    Normally this time on a Wednesday you get a sea of Labour MPs wearing their masks in parliament.

    Looks like the performative political posturing on facewear didn't suit today.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,808
    Pulpstar said:

    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.

    I can't vote for anyone, dislike Starmer for his plans to destroy private schools.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    Close to the end?

    *a nation prays*
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Interesting attack on Sturgeon

    Conference seemed a bit more hesistant to applaud on that line.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Leon said:

    Close to the end?

    *a nation prays*

    Starmer's speech is 7,286 words long. Not one of the words is "socialism".
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1443178459627507714?s=20
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    Jonathan said:

    It is sooooo nice to hear a Labour leader celebrating the achievements of Labour in government.

    Would be better having a leader like Andy Burnham who could put Labour back in Government.

    No chance with this bloke.
  • Slackbladder
    Slackbladder Posts: 9,800
    He does seem to enjoy trolling the far left at least, which is fun.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    bigjohnowls said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Standing ovation for Mark Drakeford after Starmer mentions him.

    BigG gone off SKS now!!

    OK I cant watch anymore he is crap
    Actually you are wrong

    This speech is too long but in many ways he is bringing labour out of its unelectability and laying down a challenge to Boris
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,867
    That's the GB News vote lost.
  • Pro_Rata
    Pro_Rata Posts: 5,690
    He seems a deep, deep functionalist. He is going to do lots of small but important foundational stuff to make things run smoother, change emphasis and piece it all together in the belief the end result will amount to big stuff. I think he is genuinely working up not down - this is the level at which Starmer will govern, perhaps there isn't and doesn't need to be more. If done well and with thought, it could work, but how is that pitch to be made?
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.

    I can't vote for anyone, dislike Starmer for his plans to destroy private schools.
    You will vote LD then I imagine like you usually do
  • noneoftheabove
    noneoftheabove Posts: 24,858
    I can get behind this. It is boringly presented and I don't agree with much of the answers but he has chosen the right topics and has the right intent.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    WHAT ABOUT PALESTINE
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.

    I can't vote for anyone, dislike Starmer for his plans to destroy private schools.
    My old school seems to have destroyed merged with the other independent school and rebranded must to everyone's annoyance itself so that's not an ideological hang up for me.
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    glw said:

    rottenborough said:

    3% of GDP on R&D.

    Actual policy alert.

    That's a US level for R&D spending. I can't see a Labour government offering similar business and financial terms to support it. Are Labour going to let such investors get filthy rich? Are they going to change the law so that businesses that fail and the people that run them can rapidly bounce back? And they going to offer the massive tax breaks you can get in the US at Federal and State level?

    Nice target, but I really would be surprised to see Labour adopt policies that would see the UK catch up with the US. Labour usually condemns such stuff.
    The only way you could achieve anything like that is more than 100% tax relief on R&D, a policy I have suggested before. But it would be expensive.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    Did Starmer miss the AUKUS announcement?
  • DecrepiterJohnL
    DecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,769
    Good on taking the knee and England and so on but iirc Dominic Cummings said much the same thing about the stupidity of Boris getting on the wrong side of motherhood and apple pie over this.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Starmer

    If they are so bad, what does it say about us

    Excellent line
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    Christ, is he still going??
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,055
    He’s managed to get half of the Labour Conference to stand up and clap the British Army. That’s impressive. Sincerely

    This is a boring speech that had to be made
  • IshmaelZ
    IshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.

    I can't vote for anyone, dislike Starmer for his plans to destroy private schools.
    I was just reading this in today's grauniad and thinking how chilling it was

    When Bentall was 13, his parents used all their savings to send the brothers to Uppingham, then a forbidding boys’ boarding school in Rutland, which they hoped would give them a good start in life. Instead, Bentall was bullied for his Yorkshire accent and poor athletic performance. “I was basically mocked every day of my life between the ages of 13 and 18,” he says.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/29/richard-bentall-the-doctor-who-lost-his-brother-then-revolutionised-psychology
  • dixiedean
    dixiedean Posts: 30,317
    noneoftheabove said:

    I can get behind this. It is boringly presented and I don't agree with much of the answers but he has chosen the right topics and has the right intent.

    He's chosen the right topics by covering everything.
    Expect a passage on water resource allocation in Guatemala incoming.
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    "If they're so bad, what does that say about us?"

    The best part of his speech.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,808
    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On a personal note, Starmer is still on the "might vote for" list, unlike the NIMBY borderline antivax Lib Dems right now. I've a mind to read the manifestoes thoroughly this time round.

    I can't vote for anyone, dislike Starmer for his plans to destroy private schools.
    You will vote LD then I imagine like you usually do
    Nope, I've said I cannot vote for the Lib Dems as some of them have drunk the antivax/5G koolaid.

    As for usually, out of the seven general elections I've been eligible to vote in I've voted Conservative in five of them. So I usually vote Conservative.

    The only two times I haven't was when I had to vote tactically and stop Corbynites winning the seat.
  • Selebian
    Selebian Posts: 9,544
    Young Wes has a bit of a fixed smile on him.

    Also amused (as always at these things, all parties) by the people giving a standing ovation while looking thoroughly bored, glancing around or down. If you're really enthused, you tend to look at the person enthusing you.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    DavidL said:

    Christ, is he still going??

    Yes
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TheValiant said:

    Philip_Thompson said:


    If he was so decent why was he prepared to stand with the far left and stand against those who were opposing antisemitism in 2019? Why did he put his career before saying that antisemitism is wrong?

    Probably the same reason Corbyn and his rabble didn't leave in the 1990s. They were biding their time, just as the more moderate wing of Labour had to bide theirs.

    You can't just leave a party you don't agree with at the current time (well, you can, but you'll achieve very little unless you really are lucky). You wait and try and change it back to your vision of what Labour should be.

    Corbyn didn't bide his time in Blair's Cabinet.

    Starmer could have stabbed Corbyn in the front and stood up against antisemitism and bided his time on the backbenches.

    But no, he put his own personal career first.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Managed to see some of it now. He's doing well as far as I can see. Not that dull, some decent lines, yes a lot of trite stuff, dealt well with hecklers.

    It's a dull line, but he does seem credible, and believable when he talks about patriotism, the union, the military etc.
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    A bit jingoistic for a Labour leader.

    He's sounding too much like a Tory for my taste. Let's hope not being Johnson is enough..
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