Oh FFS this BBC interview is crap. Who gives a toss? Kim Leadbeater comes across well.
She sounds like a normal person who cares about normal issues. A rarity in the Labour Party.
I'm old enough to remember when PB Tories thought she was a parachuted-in disaster who couldn't take some heckles. I'd only have to be around 6 months old to remember that mind.
That's nothing. I'm old enough to remember when Sir Kir Starmer actually began his conference speech
I voted for the right candidate to lead our party.
Far right Candidate i presume you mean
You are easily pleased.
Labour are going to lose badly
What does "far right" mean to you?
If you mean racist, anti-semite etc then the only far right party leader for any party in decades at least is the one you supported at the last election.
SKS is expelling Jews and black people at record rates.
Both groups more than 5 times more likely to be targeted and expelled than non BME non Jewish people.
Labour is completely broken under SKS
1. You quit the party 2. You are voting Tory
So why would anyone give a rat's what unhappy Trots think? You're upset that Starmer isn't hard enough on the Tories. And so will punish him by voting Tory. And you think your view on him matters? You're a literal joke. Go find a brazier to fuck off to.
You on the other hand are a LD with a Trot obsession and a mental health problem.
I wish you well but your views are water of a ducks back.
I feel sorry for you
Stop it the pair of you. It’s like the Peoples Liberation Front versus the Front for Peoples Liberation when your standard of debate is to get personal and call names.
I'm happy to drop all names with regards to @bigjohnowls and proffer an apology.
However, answer me this. As an unhappy left-winger who quit Labour because it wasn't left wing enough to harry the Tories, what on earth drives you to vote Tory?
"I'm voting Tory, that'll show them" is not what someone who claims to be as principled as you are would do.
I will only vote Tory if they are offering more progressive policies than Labour which under Johnson vs SKS is entirely possible IMO
And you're a "socialist" supposedly. I'm a yellow traitor, and I would never ever ever even consider voting Tory. Because its wrong.
Sometimes you are wrong and the people you dislike are right. Confessing your error of judgement is cleansing. Why not try it?
Everyone can vote for anything they want. If Big Knows thinks he gets more of what he likes and less of what he doesn’t like from Boris and Truss 24-29 than Starmer and Reeves, then him vote for what he Knows best.
After two leadership wins, two manifesto and two GE, it’s true it makes no sense to the rest of us, Big John Knows, Pidcock etc still think it’s fair to throw their toys out the pram. But what are lefty’s really like eh?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
Wilson governed and was elected by being of the centre, just as Blair and Attlee were.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
Wilson governed and was elected by being of the centre, just as Blair and Attlee were.
Labour has never won by being left wing. Never.
This is a bit tricky to judge historically, though, because each leader moves the dial. Thatcher moved the dial sufficiently to make Wilson, as HYUFD says, look, and in fact some substantial ways actually also be, leftwing compared to Blair.
Although that may be sooner than we think. Last night former Conservative chancellor Philip Hammond visited Brighton and told a dinner the Tories have selected all their candidates and are preparing for May 2022. Paging Brenda from Bristol…
An election next year seems quite unlikely. Why would they throw away such a large majority?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
Wilson governed and was elected by being of the centre, just as Blair and Attlee were.
Labour has never won by being left wing. Never.
And don't even mention Ramsay McDonald ...
Didn't he do a LD in the end and go into coalition with the Tories?
One thing we've learnt today. Starmer definitely had a mum and a dad.
Hah
But we’ve also learned another. After that unionist speech, no way is Starmer going into Coalition with the SNP, offering them Sindyref2. That’s quite significant
Bollocks! That careerist? If he needed to agree Sindyref2 to get into power then he would do it without a second's hesitation.
He'll abandon today's unionism with as much speed as he's abandoned the far left. He'll use and discard whoever he can to further his own career.
You seem oddly provoked by this speech.
I don’t doubt Starmer’s sincerity and principles, and I accept he had to be Claudius to Corbyn’s Caligula. Someone sane and dull had to stick around, to take over when the madman finally imploded. It doesn’t mean Starmer was happy a horse was made senator
I do doubt if Starmer has the charm, wit, cunning and most of all ideas - to win an election
But it is clear his unionism is heartfelt. He won’t grant sindyref2 and sturgeon has a further problem
I am not sure I agree with that final statement. Philip Thompson is probably correct that a Sindyref2 will be sacrificed to eject Johnson. There are some of us Unionists who wholly blame Johnson for where we are today. He sacrificed the Union for his career. HYUFD says that is fine so long as the Union is only lost after Johnson's watch.
I completely disagree. No way Starmer as a NOM PM grants Sturgeon sindyref2. For a start, he won’t need to. He will dare sturgeon to vote him down and put the Tories back in power. Is she really going to do that?
No
My guess is that Starmer would then run an unstable NOM govt for a few months then go back to the people. And ask for the tools to finish the job. ie a majority. Against a presumably confused Tory party it might just work
Also worth remembering Sturgeon is not immortal. And there is no obvious genius replacement. When she goes, Scottish politics might fracture significantly
Mphm. A fair thesis to put forward. OTOH it might actually reduce fragmentation in Scotland - as the significant proportion of Labour voters who are pro-Yes are reminded that the leadership of their party is in bed with the Tories yet again as in 2014.
Have you been listening to This Union on R4 by Alan Little (who I rate)? Verrry interesting. Today's final episode was the referendum to present day, more or less. TSE should cover his ears, but what a useless fcuker Cameron was.
No, any particularly interestingt comment re today's situation?
Well, a recurring theme of Brexit being the final break with the idea of a union of consent, and the inability of Unionism to any longer inspire affection let alone love for the institution of the UK. Ciaran Martin who helped draft the Edinburgh agreement was very good. Darling still pushing the 'time to look again at the constitution' stuff, but given he thought this was because we're in the second decade of the 21st century, not entirely convincing.
Although that may be sooner than we think. Last night former Conservative chancellor Philip Hammond visited Brighton and told a dinner the Tories have selected all their candidates and are preparing for May 2022. Paging Brenda from Bristol…
An election next year seems quite unlikely. Why would they throw away such a large majority?
He means the local elections next May, there will be no general election until at least 2023
Although that may be sooner than we think. Last night former Conservative chancellor Philip Hammond visited Brighton and told a dinner the Tories have selected all their candidates and are preparing for May 2022. Paging Brenda from Bristol…
An election next year seems quite unlikely. Why would they throw away such a large majority?
Never going to happen. Risks voter anger. Right after the plague, as well? Nah
If this means anything at all, it must be a ruse to spook Labour, and get them to spend money and waste time - that they haven't got
One thing we've learnt today. Starmer definitely had a mum and a dad.
Hah
But we’ve also learned another. After that unionist speech, no way is Starmer going into Coalition with the SNP, offering them Sindyref2. That’s quite significant
Bollocks! That careerist? If he needed to agree Sindyref2 to get into power then he would do it without a second's hesitation.
He'll abandon today's unionism with as much speed as he's abandoned the far left. He'll use and discard whoever he can to further his own career.
You seem oddly provoked by this speech.
I don’t doubt Starmer’s sincerity and principles, and I accept he had to be Claudius to Corbyn’s Caligula. Someone sane and dull had to stick around, to take over when the madman finally imploded. It doesn’t mean Starmer was happy a horse was made senator
I do doubt if Starmer has the charm, wit, cunning and most of all ideas - to win an election
But it is clear his unionism is heartfelt. He won’t grant sindyref2 and sturgeon has a further problem
I am not sure I agree with that final statement. Philip Thompson is probably correct that a Sindyref2 will be sacrificed to eject Johnson. There are some of us Unionists who wholly blame Johnson for where we are today. He sacrificed the Union for his career. HYUFD says that is fine so long as the Union is only lost after Johnson's watch.
I completely disagree. No way Starmer as a NOM PM grants Sturgeon sindyref2. For a start, he won’t need to. He will dare sturgeon to vote him down and put the Tories back in power. Is she really going to do that?
No
My guess is that Starmer would then run an unstable NOM govt for a few months then go back to the people. And ask for the tools to finish the job. ie a majority. Against a presumably confused Tory party it might just work
Also worth remembering Sturgeon is not immortal. And there is no obvious genius replacement. When she goes, Scottish politics might fracture significantly
Mphm. A fair thesis to put forward. OTOH it might actually reduce fragmentation in Scotland - as the significant proportion of Labour voters who are pro-Yes are reminded that the leadership of their party is in bed with the Tories yet again as in 2014.
Have you been listening to This Union on R4 by Alan Little (who I rate)? Verrry interesting. Today's final episode was the referendum to present day, more or less. TSE should cover his ears, but what a useless fcuker Cameron was.
No, any particularly interestingt comment re today's situation?
I can also recommend it. Compulsory listening for folk interested in Scottish politics. Which seems to be most the the planet at the moment. Scotland definitely rising up the agenda.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
One thing we've learnt today. Starmer definitely had a mum and a dad.
Hah
But we’ve also learned another. After that unionist speech, no way is Starmer going into Coalition with the SNP, offering them Sindyref2. That’s quite significant
Bollocks! That careerist? If he needed to agree Sindyref2 to get into power then he would do it without a second's hesitation.
He'll abandon today's unionism with as much speed as he's abandoned the far left. He'll use and discard whoever he can to further his own career.
You seem oddly provoked by this speech.
I don’t doubt Starmer’s sincerity and principles, and I accept he had to be Claudius to Corbyn’s Caligula. Someone sane and dull had to stick around, to take over when the madman finally imploded. It doesn’t mean Starmer was happy a horse was made senator
I do doubt if Starmer has the charm, wit, cunning and most of all ideas - to win an election
But it is clear his unionism is heartfelt. He won’t grant sindyref2 and sturgeon has a further problem
I am not sure I agree with that final statement. Philip Thompson is probably correct that a Sindyref2 will be sacrificed to eject Johnson. There are some of us Unionists who wholly blame Johnson for where we are today. He sacrificed the Union for his career. HYUFD says that is fine so long as the Union is only lost after Johnson's watch.
I completely disagree. No way Starmer as a NOM PM grants Sturgeon sindyref2. For a start, he won’t need to. He will dare sturgeon to vote him down and put the Tories back in power. Is she really going to do that?
No
My guess is that Starmer would then run an unstable NOM govt for a few months then go back to the people. And ask for the tools to finish the job. ie a majority. Against a presumably confused Tory party it might just work
Also worth remembering Sturgeon is not immortal. And there is no obvious genius replacement. When she goes, Scottish politics might fracture significantly
Mphm. A fair thesis to put forward. OTOH it might actually reduce fragmentation in Scotland - as the significant proportion of Labour voters who are pro-Yes are reminded that the leadership of their party is in bed with the Tories yet again as in 2014.
Have you been listening to This Union on R4 by Alan Little (who I rate)? Verrry interesting. Today's final episode was the referendum to present day, more or less. TSE should cover his ears, but what a useless fcuker Cameron was.
No, any particularly interestingt comment re today's situation?
Well, a recurring theme of Brexit being the final break with the idea of a union of consent, and the inability of Unionism to any longer inspire affection let alone love for the institution of the UK. Ciaran Martin who helped draft the Edinburgh agreement was very good.
Mm, the HYUFD-like strategy being apparently implicitly adopted by Starmer* (you up north will do what we decide you do) is certainly consistent with that. But as I noted earlier, not without immediate risk for Labour never mind the longer term issues.
Five-year average (2015-2019): 9,306 COVID deaths: 851 Non-COVID deaths: 10,158
Even without the COVID deaths - some will be with rather than from COVID - the non-COVID deaths were 852 above the five-year average. The sequence for non-COVID deaths v five-year average for the last 11 weeks is:
No one in the media is talking about this, but it's an interesting story. I reckon we are catching up from the deaths avoided last winter. Quite what this means in terms of pressure on the NHS, I don't know. After all, old people dying is less of a problem than them being ill, but perhaps the two are correlated.
Interesting that deaths in general are running above average, even without the direct pandemic effect.
What are we seeing then, indirect effects of healthcare systems being overloaded, treatable conditions being missed during the pandemic, more accidents as everyone gets back to work and on the roads?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
I think you're both right. Wilson was moderate left in the 60's, then the centre of gravity of the Party shifted much further left in the harsher climate of the early 70's, so he was definitely on the right by then. Maybe he shifted a bit towards the right, too, as he was "mugged by reality" in government.
Labour source: “You can tell Seumas Milne and James Schneider were involved in this hard left coup attempt this week because it has been a fucking shambles that has made its opponents stronger.”
Its been funny and appalling in equal measure. "The World Transformed" circus tent was a parody when it was first held under Corbyn's leadership, now its just bizarre. The ones who found themselves promoted beyond their level of political incompetence appeared to have genuinely believed they were somehow relevant.
Andy McD quitting was cheered by both the hard left and the party management, albeit for different reasons. The 26% vote in favour of anti-semitism just reinforced the need to keep sweeping. And now a speech where lunatics heckled, got absolutely owned by Starmer, and the Laura Pillock gets interviewed to say "that was crap wasn't it".
Starmer didn't tell them to do one. He didn't need to. That speech was New Labour Rebooted. If it wasn't clear that the left have lost and aren't welcome before, it surely is now. "I don;t want to do this every year" he said at the end. I doubt he will need to.
I agree, Team Starmer handled it well. They didn’t come to fight a war, merely some pest control.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Labour source: “You can tell Seumas Milne and James Schneider were involved in this hard left coup attempt this week because it has been a fucking shambles that has made its opponents stronger.”
Its been funny and appalling in equal measure. "The World Transformed" circus tent was a parody when it was first held under Corbyn's leadership, now its just bizarre. The ones who found themselves promoted beyond their level of political incompetence appeared to have genuinely believed they were somehow relevant.
Andy McD quitting was cheered by both the hard left and the party management, albeit for different reasons. The 26% vote in favour of anti-semitism just reinforced the need to keep sweeping. And now a speech where lunatics heckled, got absolutely owned by Starmer, and the Laura Pillock gets interviewed to say "that was crap wasn't it".
Starmer didn't tell them to do one. He didn't need to. That speech was New Labour Rebooted. If it wasn't clear that the left have lost and aren't welcome before, it surely is now. "I don;t want to do this every year" he said at the end. I doubt he will need to.
I heard more Blue Labour than New Labour in the speech.
Aimed at the middle 80%. Where it should be aimed.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Yes, every kid in a school is going to get this. How do you avoid it? Delta is so infectious, children can't mask and socially distance 24/7
On the other hand, this is concerning. Guam has a vax rate of 90%
China has begun rolling blackouts in Beijing and Shanghai, metropolises home to 48 million people, as the country struggles with crippling power shortages that have hit key factories in a further threat to the economy.
Labour source: “You can tell Seumas Milne and James Schneider were involved in this hard left coup attempt this week because it has been a fucking shambles that has made its opponents stronger.”
Its been funny and appalling in equal measure. "The World Transformed" circus tent was a parody when it was first held under Corbyn's leadership, now its just bizarre. The ones who found themselves promoted beyond their level of political incompetence appeared to have genuinely believed they were somehow relevant.
Andy McD quitting was cheered by both the hard left and the party management, albeit for different reasons. The 26% vote in favour of anti-semitism just reinforced the need to keep sweeping. And now a speech where lunatics heckled, got absolutely owned by Starmer, and the Laura Pillock gets interviewed to say "that was crap wasn't it".
Starmer didn't tell them to do one. He didn't need to. That speech was New Labour Rebooted. If it wasn't clear that the left have lost and aren't welcome before, it surely is now. "I don;t want to do this every year" he said at the end. I doubt he will need to.
I agree, Team Starmer handled it well. They didn’t come to fight a war, merely some pest control.
And I suspect that, like dealing with a would-be unruly class by pure disdain (a good trick if you can do it), is both why it worked and why the far left hate him so.
I am more left wing than Starmer and I knew that when I voted for him. I always knew he would bring Labour back to the centre.
But the difference is that I am happy about that, I believe in Labour Governments in general. Labour was around long before Corbyn and will be around long after, for the priority is achieving one (albeit in the meantime I personally hope for a Hung Parliament so the Lib Dems can help to achieve PR)
I of course don't believe in Labour Governments as a rule. But I do believe in a strong opposition which holds the Government to account and that can only happen when the Government seriously believes the Opposition is a threat. I want Starmer to succeed in making Labour genuinely electable so that either the Tories get a far, far better leader, or Labour wins next time. Boris is - in my personal opinion - unfit to govern. Starmer needs to show he is a viable alternative.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Yes, every kid in a school is going to get this. How do you avoid it? Delta is so contagious, children can't mask and socially distance 24/7
I think the exit from Covid has been handled really well. Not only the vaccine rollout but making sure enough unvaccinated adults caught this then over the summer instead of trying to prevent it. Now its burning out in the autumn in kids.
By winter this is really going to be history, which is just as well because we have enough other problems to face.
For other countries that haven't had enough vaccines and enough cases yet - this could be a very dark winter. It could be very 'interesting' in the US South albeit I don't know if the South actually has a bad winter like we do?
Sounds like it was a half-decent Starmer speech - fair play.
Unfortunately, I find him too boring to even switch the telly on for, let alone listen to, so it's all passed me by.
As ever, it will be how the heavily edited highlights come across in the news that will be key. I suspect he’ll come out quite well from that.
Political correspondents are an important audience too. If they were impressed then they will report the things that Starmer says over the next weeks and months more positively. It's the sort of thing that can create a general sense of competence from nothing.
But I don't think it will be enough when set against the awesome power of Johnson's charisma.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
We can all see that inflation is coming. Yet fixed income investors seem to be very relaxed about this. 10 year UK government bonds yield less than 1%.
And in the US, which is about to engage in some massive fiscal stimulus, they yield little more.
Switzerland, France, Germany and the Netherlands all have negative 10 year interest rates.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone want to own instruments which guarantee you will lose large amounts of money?
(In the old days, we could blame QE, but we can't even do that any more.)
I was discussing this with our pension fund advisors this morning. Our fund is currently quite comfortably in surplus after a truly stellar run over the last 3 years and we were discussing how to take some chips off the table and bank them. One possible way is to buy more bonds but there are 2 problems. Firstly, the bonds are, if anything, more volatile than equities and secondly they are more vulnerable to inflation.
Its a conundrum. I would like to see us reduce our risk profile substantially but genuinely safe investments are very hard to find. Which is presumably why people are still buying gilts.
Those gilts are currently giving you returnless risk. 10 year bonds could easily lose a third of their value.
We don't buy gilts, we buy BBBs but if inflation really gets going the problem is the same.
Assuming you mean BBB Corporate Bonds they carry a fair degree of risk.
Greek taxi drivers are the best. As soon as we got in he started ranting about how it's the EU causing Britain to have petrol shortages so that no one else tries to leave the EU.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
My wife and I joined the Covid case statistics yesterday. Feel a bit rough but nothing worse than a bad cold at the moment. My 85yo father in law also tested positive but so far he is asymptomatic and hopefully that situation will stay. All of us were double jabbed. If these are the cases that are coming through then with any luck the hospitalisations will keep coming down.
Greek taxi drivers are the best. As soon as we got in he started ranting about how it's the EU causing Britain to have petrol shortages so that no one else tries to leave the EU.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
We can all see that inflation is coming. Yet fixed income investors seem to be very relaxed about this. 10 year UK government bonds yield less than 1%.
And in the US, which is about to engage in some massive fiscal stimulus, they yield little more.
Switzerland, France, Germany and the Netherlands all have negative 10 year interest rates.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone want to own instruments which guarantee you will lose large amounts of money?
(In the old days, we could blame QE, but we can't even do that any more.)
I was discussing this with our pension fund advisors this morning. Our fund is currently quite comfortably in surplus after a truly stellar run over the last 3 years and we were discussing how to take some chips off the table and bank them. One possible way is to buy more bonds but there are 2 problems. Firstly, the bonds are, if anything, more volatile than equities and secondly they are more vulnerable to inflation.
Its a conundrum. I would like to see us reduce our risk profile substantially but genuinely safe investments are very hard to find. Which is presumably why people are still buying gilts.
Those gilts are currently giving you returnless risk. 10 year bonds could easily lose a third of their value.
We don't buy gilts, we buy BBBs but if inflation really gets going the problem is the same.
Assuming you mean BBB Corporate Bonds they carry a fair degree of risk.
I do and although there is some default risk things will have to be pretty pear shaped before they get that far up the tree. They obviously have a much better yield than gilts which allows us to cover the pensions in payment.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
My wife and I joined the Covid case statistics yesterday. Feel a bit rough but nothing worse than a bad cold at the moment. My 85yo father in law also tested positive but so far he is asymptomatic and hopefully that situation will stay. All of us were double jabbed. If these are the cases that are coming through then with any luck the hospitalisations will keep coming down.
Hopefully you will all be out the other side of it soon with no lingering symptoms.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
I think you're both right. Wilson was moderate left in the 60's, then the centre of gravity of the Party shifted much further left in the harsher climate of the early 70's, so he was definitely on the right by then. Maybe he shifted a bit towards the right, too, as he was "mugged by reality" in government.
Yes, he was definitely on the right of his party by the time he left the PM job in '76.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
From a leftwing perspective Thatcher may have been of the right, from a rightwing perspective she was only on the centre right.
For example she campaigned to join the EEC, took us into the single market and signed the Anglo Irish Agreement, which meant she was sometimes attacked by the likes of Enoch Powell and Ian Paisley for selling out.
She also voted to decriminalise homosexuality when most Tory MPs voted against and to legalise abortion
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
I think it is worth looking at the net changes in vote share from 2015 to 2019. The story goes that Jezza was offputting to Lib Dems, but both Labour and the Lib Dems were up on their 2015 vote share.
I think the difference is the redistribution of the UKIP vote, post Brexit - I'd guess that some Remainer Tories went LD, as most Kippers went Tory
GE 2015 Con 36.9% Lab 30.4% LD 7.9% UKIP 12.6%
GE 2019 (change from 2015) Con 43.6% (+6.7) Lab 32.3%(+1.9) LD 11.6% (+3.7) Brexit 2.0% (-10.6)
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
What do you make of the uniform at our local school?
Labour source: “You can tell Seumas Milne and James Schneider were involved in this hard left coup attempt this week because it has been a fucking shambles that has made its opponents stronger.”
Its been funny and appalling in equal measure. "The World Transformed" circus tent was a parody when it was first held under Corbyn's leadership, now its just bizarre. The ones who found themselves promoted beyond their level of political incompetence appeared to have genuinely believed they were somehow relevant.
Andy McD quitting was cheered by both the hard left and the party management, albeit for different reasons. The 26% vote in favour of anti-semitism just reinforced the need to keep sweeping. And now a speech where lunatics heckled, got absolutely owned by Starmer, and the Laura Pillock gets interviewed to say "that was crap wasn't it".
Starmer didn't tell them to do one. He didn't need to. That speech was New Labour Rebooted. If it wasn't clear that the left have lost and aren't welcome before, it surely is now. "I don;t want to do this every year" he said at the end. I doubt he will need to.
Radio 2 news analysis was Starmer's speech was simply dreadful. The analyst? Laura "winner winner" Pidcock.
As Laura was once the future, I was amazed at how whiney and uninspiring the future would have been.
I think it is worth looking at the net changes in vote share from 2015 to 2019. The story goes that Jezza was offputting to Lib Dems, but both Labour and the Lib Dems were up on their 2015 vote share.
I think the difference is the redistribution of the UKIP vote, post Brexit - I'd guess that some Remainer Tories went LD, as most Kippers went Tory
GE 2015 Con 36.9% Lab 30.4% LD 7.9% UKIP 12.6%
GE 2019 (change from 2015) Con 43.6% (+6.7) Lab 32.3%(+1.9) LD 11.6% (+3.7) Brexit 2.0% (-10.6)
UKIP was the gateway party for disillusioned labour voters who then went full-on Tory.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
About as sad as caring about what emoji randomers put in their Twitter screen name
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
About as sad as caring about what emoji randomers put in their Twitter screen name
I don't really care about it, I was just saying it's sad.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
Boris and Lewis are also about to reimpose direct rule by the UK government in NI, once the DUP withdraw from the Stormont executive over the NI protocol in another carrot for Sir Jeffrey and NI Unionists if Boris needs them if he loses his majority in 2023/4
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
...and she got rid of Ian Smith from Rhodesia to enable Mugabe's Zimbabwe
Will of the people.
Rhodesia had an elite that ignored what the majority wanted.
That's the joys of democracy.
When you have a majority black population and a racist Prime Minister who campaigned on things like a 'whiter, brighter Rhodesia' ousting Smith was inevitable.
Labour source: “You can tell Seumas Milne and James Schneider were involved in this hard left coup attempt this week because it has been a fucking shambles that has made its opponents stronger.”
Its been funny and appalling in equal measure. "The World Transformed" circus tent was a parody when it was first held under Corbyn's leadership, now its just bizarre. The ones who found themselves promoted beyond their level of political incompetence appeared to have genuinely believed they were somehow relevant.
Andy McD quitting was cheered by both the hard left and the party management, albeit for different reasons. The 26% vote in favour of anti-semitism just reinforced the need to keep sweeping. And now a speech where lunatics heckled, got absolutely owned by Starmer, and the Laura Pillock gets interviewed to say "that was crap wasn't it".
Starmer didn't tell them to do one. He didn't need to. That speech was New Labour Rebooted. If it wasn't clear that the left have lost and aren't welcome before, it surely is now. "I don;t want to do this every year" he said at the end. I doubt he will need to.
I agree, Team Starmer handled it well. They didn’t come to fight a war, merely some pest control.
And I suspect that, like dealing with a would-be unruly class by pure disdain (a good trick if you can do it), is both why it worked and why the far left hate him so.
Of the rule changes that Starmer got through, by far the most significant is to bring in a 6 month membership qualification to vote in a future leadership election. It'll ensure that very few of the far left extremists gradually leaving the party will have rejoined in time to vote. After the disgraceful scenes today which did their cause no good whatsoever, I'm not going to shed any tears if more of those sort of disruptive extremists now pack their bags and go.
Basically, the change stops entryism during leadership contests by far left extremists (and as a bonus by PB Tories too.) Starmer backed down on the idea of recreating an electoral college, but maybe the plan was always to have an option to give some ground in order to boost the chances of achieving the main outcome.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
No idea. Bit of tippex to put r in front of UK would be cheaper?
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
LDP hopefuls vow to introduce nuclear fusion and small modular reactors https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/09/19/national/ldp-nuclear-reactors/ Two of the four contenders in the race to become Japan’s next prime minister called Sunday for introducing small modular reactors and nuclear fusion reactors as part of efforts to achieve the goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050.
Former Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and former communications minister Sanae Takaichi also said Japan should in the meantime restart its currently idled nuclear reactors in order to maintain a stable and feasible power supply source....
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Wilson was also the candidate of the centre left in Labour to challenge Gaitskill in 1960
Centre left isn't Left. Ed Miliband was a candidate of the centre left. The left candidate in that election was Abbott. Worlds apart.
On that basis no rightwing Tory candidate has ever won a general election either. For example Powell and Redwood and IDS were candidates of the Tory right but most Tory PMs were either from the party centre right like Churchill, Home and Thatcher or the party centre or left like most of the others
I would regard Thatcher as being of the right. Certainly when it came to economics. And her friendship with far right dictators.
...and she got rid of Ian Smith from Rhodesia to enable Mugabe's Zimbabwe
Will of the people.
Rhodesia had an elite that ignored what the majority wanted.
That's the joys of democracy.
When you have a majority black population and a racist Prime Minister who campaigned on things like a 'whiter, brighter Rhodesia' ousting Smith was inevitable.
Smith was ready to stand aside for a black leader, Muzorewa. But anyway
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
My wife and I joined the Covid case statistics yesterday. Feel a bit rough but nothing worse than a bad cold at the moment. My 85yo father in law also tested positive but so far he is asymptomatic and hopefully that situation will stay. All of us were double jabbed. If these are the cases that are coming through then with any luck the hospitalisations will keep coming down.
The wife and I got tested this morning at the local walk in centre now that we have the plague inside the walls of the house. Will probably get the result late tonight or tomorrow. Right now I have what appears to be a really bad head cold but no other symptoms so I am hoping it is exactly what it appears to be.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
What do you make of the uniform at our local school?
I didn't know you were near Ingatestone (unless there's another school with similar uniform). My mum's old school, but that was back before it was 'European' (or at least, if it was, it didn't rub off on her!)
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
Boris and Lewis are also about to reimpose direct rule by the UK government in NI, once the DUP withdraw from the Stormont executive over the NI protocol in another carrot for Sir Jeffrey and NI Unionists if Boris needs them if he loses his majority in 2023/4
Great! Does that remove the customs border down the Irish Sea?
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
What do you make of the uniform at our local school?
I didn't know you were near Ingatestone (unless there's another school with similar uniform). My mum's old school, but that was back before it was 'European' (or at least, if it was, it didn't rub off on her!)
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
Time to change the topic of discussion to flatworm sex lives.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
What do you make of the uniform at our local school?
I didn't know you were near Ingatestone (unless there's another school with similar uniform). My mum's old school, but that was back before it was 'European' (or at least, if it was, it didn't rub off on her!)
Yes, just moved here. Midsomer Ingatestone!
I hope you're telling everyone (not the locals!) that it's pronounced Ingertestony
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
And we are not an EU country so changes will happen as we plot our course to our own destiny
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
And we are not an EU country so changes will happen as we plot our course to our own destiny
Why were the car stickers GB rather than UK originally? Was it because of potential confusion with Ukraine?
(I once had a payment from a US customer delayed for weeks because they'd sent the cheque to our address but in Ukraine, much to the puzzlement of the Ukrainian postal authorities),
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
Oh come on HYUFD. I was being impish. Like a sort of svelte centrist Boris Johnson.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
This is just part of forward negotiations with the DUP in preparation for the coalition after the 2022 election
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
Boris and Lewis are also about to reimpose direct rule by the UK government in NI, once the DUP withdraw from the Stormont executive over the NI protocol in another carrot for Sir Jeffrey and NI Unionists if Boris needs them if he loses his majority in 2023/4
Great! Does that remove the customs border down the Irish Sea?
It really needs both sides to grow up and resolve the issues sensibly and who cares about GE 24 this is now
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
What do you make of the uniform at our local school?
My old boarding school was run by a europhile who used to fly the EU flag from the school and make us sing Beethoven's 9th in the original German.
I'm afraid it didn't work on me, well, except to turn me into a staunch eurosceptic.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Yes, every kid in a school is going to get this. How do you avoid it? Delta is so infectious, children can't mask and socially distance 24/7
On the other hand, this is concerning. Guam has a vax rate of 90%
Covid test results in the past two months have shown an alarming rate of breakthrough cases of people who had been vaccinated, including 554 of the 1,765 positive cases in August. Overall, breakthrough cases represent 31% of infections – the highest rate in the US, where most states have less than 1%.
Guam doesn't have a 90% vaccination rate - it's 71% according to the article and a google of it's population
87.13% of eligible people having received two doses (12+)
Of Guam's 167,294 population, 118,756 are vaccinated (71%), 48,538 unvaxxed In August 1,211 of the 48,538 caught Covid (2.49%) and 554 of the vaccinated 118,756 did (0.47%)
Why were the car stickers GB rather than UK originally? Was it because of potential confusion with Ukraine?
(I once had a payment from a US customer delayed for weeks because they'd sent the cheque to our address but in Ukraine, much to the puzzlement of the Ukrainian postal authorities),
GB was introduced in 1910 sez Wiki - and Ukraine was very much part of the Tsarist Empire then.
Edit: maybe they thouight Irish independence might happen and didn't want the hassle of changing? But UK would do just as well even then (reverting to the pre-1800 sense).
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Isn't that more of a reflection of changing times generally? When I worked in the City in the 90s we went to the pub every lunchtime. At the old LIFFE floor in GRE there was a champagne bar on the trading floor I think. My friends who still work in town now say its virtually unheard of, esp amongst the younger people
One thing we've learnt today. Starmer definitely had a mum and a dad.
Hah
But we’ve also learned another. After that unionist speech, no way is Starmer going into Coalition with the SNP, offering them Sindyref2. That’s quite significant
Well things might look different if it's the only option. But he was strong on it.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
You have no idea what 'we tories' will do at sometime in the future
However, it was good to hear Starmer coming down like a ton of bricks on Scots Independence, and standing up for the union
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Yes, every kid in a school is going to get this. How do you avoid it? Delta is so infectious, children can't mask and socially distance 24/7
On the other hand, this is concerning. Guam has a vax rate of 90%
Covid test results in the past two months have shown an alarming rate of breakthrough cases of people who had been vaccinated, including 554 of the 1,765 positive cases in August. Overall, breakthrough cases represent 31% of infections – the highest rate in the US, where most states have less than 1%.
Guam doesn't have a 90% vaccination rate - it's 71% according to the article and a google of it's population
87.13% of eligible people having received two doses (12+)
Of Guam's 167,294 population, 118,756 are vaccinated (71%), 48,538 unvaxxed In August 1,211 of the 48,538 caught Covid (2.49%) and 554 of the vaccinated 118,756 did (0.47%)
That's a vaccine efficacy RIGHT NOW of 81.1%.
It's very similar to the UK - Covid doesn't care about approvals or anything - it'll simply plough through the unvaccinated whether they're kids or antivaxxers.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Get rid of that dirt blue and gold flag.
No you can still have the lovely EU sign on the car you just now have to put an extra UK sticker on it and go to a ceremony where you swear allegiance to Bozo !
About as sad as all those tweeters who stick the EU flags in their name.
And we are not an EU country so changes will happen as we plot our course to our own destiny
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Comments
This will do nothing but good for his image.
Today is the day the Labour Party turned around and become back in contention for the next GE.
Now, back to work!
Afternoon.
After two leadership wins, two manifesto and two GE, it’s true it makes no sense to the rest of us, Big John Knows, Pidcock etc still think it’s fair to throw their toys out the pram. But what are lefty’s really like eh?
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
If this means anything at all, it must be a ruse to spook Labour, and get them to spend money and waste time - that they haven't got
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
*tbc, tbf.
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
Aimed at the middle 80%. Where it should be aimed.
On the other hand, this is concerning. Guam has a vax rate of 90%
Yet Delta is surging, even there
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/29/guams-vaccination-success-story-turns-grim-with-covid-surge
I happen to think he is doing that.
By winter this is really going to be history, which is just as well because we have enough other problems to face.
For other countries that haven't had enough vaccines and enough cases yet - this could be a very dark winter. It could be very 'interesting' in the US South albeit I don't know if the South actually has a bad winter like we do?
But I don't think it will be enough when set against the awesome power of Johnson's charisma.
Bedroom tax.
Self identification.
Gender neutral bathrooms.
Palestine.
My Leader's Speech bingo card isn't a winner.
For example she campaigned to join the EEC, took us into the single market and signed the Anglo Irish Agreement, which meant she was sometimes attacked by the likes of Enoch Powell and Ian Paisley for selling out.
She also voted to decriminalise homosexuality when most Tory MPs voted against and to legalise abortion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/11403728/Margaret-Thatchers-secret-campaign-to-end-apartheid.html
I think the difference is the redistribution of the UKIP vote, post Brexit - I'd guess that some Remainer Tories went LD, as most Kippers went Tory
GE 2015
Con 36.9%
Lab 30.4%
LD 7.9%
UKIP 12.6%
GE 2019 (change from 2015)
Con 43.6% (+6.7)
Lab 32.3%(+1.9)
LD 11.6% (+3.7)
Brexit 2.0% (-10.6)
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
As Laura was once the future, I was amazed at how whiney and uninspiring the future would have been.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
Rhodesia had an elite that ignored what the majority wanted.
That's the joys of democracy.
When you have a majority black population and a racist Prime Minister who campaigned on things like a 'whiter, brighter Rhodesia' ousting Smith was inevitable.
Basically, the change stops entryism during leadership contests by far left extremists (and as a bonus by PB Tories too.) Starmer backed down on the idea of recreating an electoral college, but maybe the plan was always to have an option to give some ground in order to boost the chances of achieving the main outcome.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/09/19/national/ldp-nuclear-reactors/
Two of the four contenders in the race to become Japan’s next prime minister called Sunday for introducing small modular reactors and nuclear fusion reactors as part of efforts to achieve the goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050.
Former Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and former communications minister Sanae Takaichi also said Japan should in the meantime restart its currently idled nuclear reactors in order to maintain a stable and feasible power supply source....
Worth a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1OzfpPtJoQ
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
(I once had a payment from a US customer delayed for weeks because they'd sent the cheque to our address but in Ukraine, much to the puzzlement of the Ukrainian postal authorities),
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
I'm afraid it didn't work on me, well, except to turn me into a staunch eurosceptic.
Guam doesn't have a 90% vaccination rate - it's 71% according to the article and a google of it's population
87.13% of eligible people having received two doses (12+)
Of Guam's 167,294 population, 118,756 are vaccinated (71%), 48,538 unvaxxed
In August 1,211 of the 48,538 caught Covid (2.49%) and 554 of the vaccinated 118,756 did (0.47%)
That's a vaccine efficacy RIGHT NOW of 81.1%.
Edit: maybe they thouight Irish independence might happen and didn't want the hassle of changing? But UK would do just as well even then (reverting to the pre-1800 sense).
However, it was good to hear Starmer coming down like a ton of bricks on Scots Independence, and standing up for the union
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jens-haaning-take-the-money-and-run-blank-canvases/
Good news eh? @Stuartinromford
• PBers still don't understand how vaccine efficacy is measured (see @Leon, thanks for the clarification @Pulstar)
• PBers still don't seem to grasp that Covid doesn't matter if it presents as a (bad) cold