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BoJo would find it more challenging facing Angela Rayner – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 23 in General
imageBoJo would find it more challenging facing Angela Rayner – politicalbetting.com

I just wonder whether a LAB leadership contest could be much closer than we think. Ahead of the party conference Starmer is proposing a change in the leadership election rules and prominent figures like Sadiq Khan have come out against. If Starmer fails to get this through he would look even more weakened than he does at the moment.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,468
    edited September 23
    Goodness no, Rayner is at best Kinnock without the brains at worst a less appealing Corbyn.

    She would also see far more tactical votes for the Tories to keep her out than Starmer would.

    If however Labour want to appeal to the redwall again then Burnham is a better choice
  • AslanAslan Posts: 718
    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,698
    I saw a 10 second edit of PMQs on BBC 10 o clock News yesterday and she was swatted away by Raab. And let's face it Raab isn't the sharpest tool in the box.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,698
    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    It worked OK for a lady from Grantham.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 718

    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    It worked OK for a lady from Grantham.
    There was a reason she had speech lessons.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 718
    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    It worked OK for a lady from Grantham.
    There was a reason she had speech lessons.
    And Grantham is in the Midlands anyway.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 666
    Rayner will know why seats like hers have often gone Conservative.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    So, what does Rayner think she could make better for the average person in society?

    Not someone in the top 10% or bottom 10%, but the big chunk in the middle whose votes decide elections?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,698
    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    It worked OK for a lady from Grantham.
    There was a reason she had speech lessons.
    And Grantham is in the Midlands anyway.
    Nah, they get Look North on BBC TV in Lincolnshire.
  • BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,035
    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,969
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,751

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    They could just remove the port and sell you expansive wireless charging solution instead.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,969
    Monkeys said:

    Rayner will know why seats like hers have often gone Conservative.

    That was mostly down to having Corbyn as leader. Go look at the post GE2019 polling.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    edited September 23

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    I actually think it's a good move...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,481
    Agree with Mike that Labour should have a female leader, who would unsettle Boris more than Sir Keir does. My choice would be Jess Phillips but maybe Rayner would do well also. Similar attitude
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    I agree, though I do think it correct Boris would find it more challenging to face her than a Starmer type.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
    I'd counsel against spitting on phone connectors, liquid damage is a nontrivial risk.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    edited September 23

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024
    isam said:

    Agree with Mike that Labour should have a female leader, who would unsettle Boris more than Sir Keir does. My choice would be Jess Phillips but maybe Rayner would do well also. Similar attitude


    She thinks the only way that will happen is AWS for leader.

    And her trans views would be immediately jumped on.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jess-phillips-mp-interview-the-only-way-a-woman-will-become-labour-leader-is-if-men-don-t-stand-9m25fn8k8
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,255
    Sadiq Khan was on Today this morning and claiming that he had been too busy to think about these rule changes. It wasn't even remotely convincing. He was asked if he supported Starmer and avoided answering the question but didn't expressly say no.

    His answer on his punitive measures directed at poor people with older cars weren't much better. Labour surely dodged a bullet when he left the Commons.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,821

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    Our household has both Apple and Android phones (I don't particularly like either, for different reasons, but there is little other choice...). The duplication in cables is vexing, unnecessary and wasteful (it's a lot better than it was, due to the EU reg to move to USB and we've now only got USB-C rather than a mix with micro-B for the Android kit).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,255

    I saw a 10 second edit of PMQs on BBC 10 o clock News yesterday and she was swatted away by Raab. And let's face it Raab isn't the sharpest tool in the box.

    Raab is the box, especially if it is made of wood.
  • BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
    So let the market decide, not EU bureaucrats. I have three i-phones: an i-phone 1 which still does good service as a bedside clock, an i-phone 4 with a PAYG sim for emergencies and an i-phone 7 for the daily grind. Each has a different connector and each in its day was an improvement on its predecessor. The EU has decided in its wisdom that this beneficial process has now reached ultimate perfection and must cease forthwith. I'm sure we can both think of historical standards that were the best in their day but not ideal for the present. SCSI, for example.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,090

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    So, aside from that?

    I remember a conversation in business, once. I pointed out that the proposed course of action was immoral, wrong and stupid. The response, from an accountant, was that aside from that, what was wrong with the idea?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,035
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,966
    edited September 23

    I saw a 10 second edit of PMQs on BBC 10 o clock News yesterday and she was swatted away by Raab. And let's face it Raab isn't the sharpest tool in the box.

    A whole 10 seconds?

    I watched it. Rayner was quite good - less dour and more entertaining than Starmer, with a few bits of good old, quite humorous, class war chucked in. Cheered up the Labour backbenches, anyway. I wouldn't have her as Leader, though. She needs to be unleashed more often to be to Starmer what Prescott was to Blair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    That’s already been sorted, at least in my region:


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024
    Selebian said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    Our household has both Apple and Android phones (I don't particularly like either, for different reasons, but there is little other choice...). The duplication in cables is vexing, unnecessary and wasteful (it's a lot better than it was, due to the EU reg to move to USB and we've now only got USB-C rather than a mix with micro-B for the Android kit).
    Oh, I agree, I would much prefer that every unit used the same cable. But the bizarre Apple-Aversion on PB is nothing to do with cabling. It's a geek cult that is even weirder than Apple Fanboyism itself.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    edited September 23

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
    I'd counsel against spitting on phone connectors, liquid damage is a nontrivial risk.
    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    I'm not a fan either, but I don't have any Apple stuff.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Not just a logo though, is it? It's an alternative platform, and one that millions of people worldwide prefer. You prefer Windows, fine. Many millions disagree. Get over it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    edited September 23
    Pulpstar said:


    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    One of the advantages of working in tech - sometimes you get free or dirt cheap gear chucked at you. ;)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024
    Pulpstar said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
    I'd counsel against spitting on phone connectors, liquid damage is a nontrivial risk.
    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    I'm not a fan either, but I don't have any Apple stuff.
    Most probably someone else in his house prefers Apple. I can't imagine how that goes down over Sunday lunch!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423

    Pulpstar said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    So this means USB-C until the end of time. Why would anyone develop a better connector if it required prior approval from the EU?
    That's a good point. But 'better' is subjective: there are so many manufacturers that there might be 1001 different connectors: exactly the world we used to be in. In our house, we used to have four or five different charging systems for our handheld devices; with all the cables and other nonsense. Now we just have two - USB C and (spits) Apple's connector.

    The USB standards have been developed over decades, and have improved massively. Is the Lightning connector's advantages (to anyone other than Apple's bottom line) really that much better than USB-C?

    The answer is no.
    I'd counsel against spitting on phone connectors, liquid damage is a nontrivial risk.
    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    One of the advantages of working in tech - sometimes you get free or dirt cheap gear chucked at you. ;)
    Why are you whinging then. You're as bad as the M25 eco protestor who is a millionaire landlord with poorly insulated homes.*

    * Well perhaps not quite so bad.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,801
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    In a narrow data perspective, maybe. In terms of sustainability and planned obsolescence of their products not so much. They put battery limitations in their software updates to make iPhone users upgrade, even people who replaced their batteries officially through Apple found that their battery life was shit and it was because iOS had been updated to make it that way.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,966
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    There is a difference. Feisty is a compliment, usually. Hysterical never is.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,418
    More German polls, almost identical. Linket has picked up slightly and is unlikely to go below 5%. Everything else much as when we discussed it a few days go, and my betting recommendations stand:

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    SPD most seats at 1.31 (Betfair Exchange) looks a good one with just 3 days to go.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,024

    Pulpstar said:


    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    One of the advantages of working in tech - sometimes you get free or dirt cheap gear chucked at you. ;)
    You are happy to accept free swag from The Great Satan?

    Nurse!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,821
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    A downside of Brexit is that UK consumers may once again have to deal with crap like this :wink: (every phone having a different charger, roaming charges...).

    Although probably not, on chargers - I guess the UK stuff will come from an EU-standard production line, with same radio frequencies etc? Hard to see them making a UK-specific variant with lightning just for the accessory price gouging?

    (If the UK stuff comes from an EU-standard line - or is an iPhone the same the world over without different parts specs? UK models could of course be sourced from the US bucket if that's compatible and cost effective. Some other phones have internal differences in e.g. EU and US versions).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,255
    edited September 23

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    There is a difference. Feisty is a compliment, usually. Hysterical never is.
    It can be if they are intentionally making you laugh. Eg that comedian is hysterical.
    /pedant.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,090
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    That’s already been sorted, at least in my region:


    The provision of USB sockets in public charging systems always struck me as an awesome way to get you malware etc into people devices.

    Just get the franchise for a good coffee chop up the road from MI6. Droop the price of the coffee, improve the quality. Install some chargers. Get an Order of Lenin..........
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Not just a logo though, is it? It's an alternative platform, and one that millions of people worldwide prefer. You prefer Windows, fine. Many millions disagree. Get over it.
    Windows or Android, please. ;)

    (I'll actually complement Apple. For perhaps the first time in their existence, they've actually started technically innovating over the last decade instead of stealing. The Apple A14 chip (and probably the A15 just released) are apparently great designs, and I believe have their competitors very concerned.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    There is a difference. Feisty is a compliment, usually. Hysterical never is.
    How's it entered the conversation, it looks like a non sequitur from @tlg86. On the first post ?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,966
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    There is a difference. Feisty is a compliment, usually. Hysterical never is.
    It can be if they are intentionally making you laugh. Eg that comedian is hysterical.
    /pedant.
    Touché, pedant.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182

    Pulpstar said:


    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.

    How/why do you have Apple gubbins in your household if you dislike them so much ?
    One of the advantages of working in tech - sometimes you get free or dirt cheap gear chucked at you. ;)
    You are happy to accept free swag from The Great Satan?

    Nurse!
    You are being a trifle silly. Besides, the swag wasn't from them...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    edited September 23

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Not just a logo though, is it? It's an alternative platform, and one that millions of people worldwide prefer. You prefer Windows, fine. Many millions disagree. Get over it.
    That people prefer it is totally fine. It's reasonable to point out that the devotion level can be a bit weird though, especially when it leads to a higher price than would otherise fly even if every product they released was best in its field.

    Your response of 'get over it' is strange, since why shouldn't people be able to criticise brand loyalty? Ultimately 'get over it' is just someone saying 'I/they like it, so you cannot criticise', the same defense of any dumb but popular movie.

    I'd love to have some Apple devices, I just cannot justify the expense, so I'm not against the company.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    Yeah, that's the point...

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/sep/01/feisty-flounce-bossy-words-put-women-down

    I don't think there's anything particularly offensive in what Mike says, but it is something to be aware of.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423

    More German polls, almost identical. Linket has picked up slightly and is unlikely to go below 5%. Everything else much as when we discussed it a few days go, and my betting recommendations stand:

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    SPD most seats at 1.31 (Betfair Exchange) looks a good one with just 3 days to go.

    Cheers I've taken the £79 on Smarkets at that price. Looks good - Olaf Schul does look in some ways like continuity boredom candidate being the current Vice Chancellor and all. And if there's one thing that gets elected in Germany it's a seriously dull candidate.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,821
    edited September 23
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    That’s already been sorted, at least in my region:


    Lol, are they really labelled like that? What if you have two Android devices :wink:

    (Semi-serious - I don't think for a moment that my parents would dare plug and Android device into the IoS socket)

    Edit: Actually, they probably wouldn't use either socket unless it said 'phone charging' or something, but you get the idea.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    A book I read on the big companies recently left me with the impression Facebook was the most evil, followed by Google. Apple came across as genius in marketing an everyday product to luxury profit levels.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    In a narrow data perspective, maybe. In terms of sustainability and planned obsolescence of their products not so much. They put battery limitations in their software updates to make iPhone users upgrade, even people who replaced their batteries officially through Apple found that their battery life was shit and it was because iOS had been updated to make it that way.
    Yes, not totally saints, but way less evil than Google, Amazon, Uber, and the social media companies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,952
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    I thought those were emojis.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 521
    edited September 23
    Not sure Angela Rayner is the answer. Yes she's Northern, but does that mean she's going to win back those home-owning middle class pensioners in the North and Midlands who tipped the red wall to the Tories last time? Not sure. And what Labour also need is someone who at least half appeals to the disgruntled remain voters of the home counties who may be tempted to vote Lib Dem. Starmer seems harmless enough to that demographic. Don't forget what won the Tories their majority in 2015 was the wipeout of Lib Dems in the South and SW.

    But what they really need is someone interesting, with an engaging personality and a bunch of popular policies they can make their own. Someone with even 25% of the charisma of Blair would do. And positive. The relentless negativity of most of the Labour front bench just doesn't work. Take a leaf out of the cheery likes of Trudeau, or (Bill) Clinton. You can be critical of the government and still come across as an optimist with hope for the future.

    What the Lib Dems need in order to execute their part of the Tories-out strategy is a likeable leader with the right balance of confidence and realism and ideally with a sense of humour. There are slim pickings in parliament but Daisy Cooper easily comes closest I think.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,364

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Unfortunately for Rayner I think a Northern woman with a tendency to being aggressive in PMQs would play into a classist-sexist stereotype that would go down badly with the public.

    It worked OK for a lady from Grantham.
    There was a reason she had speech lessons.
    And Grantham is in the Midlands anyway.
    Nah, they get Look North on BBC TV in Lincolnshire.
    I am sure the Burghley Horse Trials will be intrigued to learn that they are a northern event.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    kle4 said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Not just a logo though, is it? It's an alternative platform, and one that millions of people worldwide prefer. You prefer Windows, fine. Many millions disagree. Get over it.
    That people prefer it is totally fine. It's reasonable to point out that the devotion level can be a bit weird though, especially when it leads to a higher price than would otherise fly even if every product they released was best in its field.

    Your response of 'get over it' is strange, since why shouldn't people be able to criticise brand loyalty? Ultimately 'get over it' is just someone saying 'I/they like it, so you cannot criticise', the same defense of any dumb but popular movie.
    The thing is, I used to be like that. I loved Acorn products from the time I was ten or eleven. I was devoted to them, and would childishly laugh at all the people who had Spectrums and other lesser (and cheaper!) computers. I loved it when they developed the ARM chip, and started learning the instruction set before I got access to an Archimedes.

    Then I went to work for Acorn, and realised that my devotion was... misplaced. They were just a company, doing some great things, but flawed in many ways. I loved my time there, and most of the work I did, but it was just a company.

    I've heard similar things from ex-MS people. I bet many Google and Apple peeps would say the same as well.

    It made me see that fandom was all too often blind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    I thought those were emojis.
    Second from left on the bottom row looks a bit racist then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757

    Actually saw this on a spot of news yesterday: Lithuanian government found dodginess in Chinese mobiles:
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1440601477706178560

    Isn't that a bit 'dog bites man'? Give me a headline of them finding some mobiles in some chinese dodginess.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    Does anyone think this energy crisis could bring down the government?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,536
    The Taliban are more likely to elect a woman leader than Labour
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,952
    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    That’s already been sorted, at least in my region:
    Fantastic, but that's solving the problem at its end, not its source.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    A book I read on the big companies recently left me with the impression Facebook was the most evil, followed by Google. Apple came across as genius in marketing an everyday product to luxury profit levels.
    Yes indeed. I’d put Uber alongside Facebook right at the top though. Destroying an entire industry by ignoring laws and making massive losses, driving (sic) the competition out of business.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think this energy crisis could bring down the government?

    As likely as the fuel protests in 2000 brought down Blair.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,821
    edited September 23
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    Compatibility can be greater than you think!

    I remember, shortly after getting together with my (now) wife having a bit of a shock* one morning to find that her toaster, bought when she lived in mainland Europe, still had its Schuko-style plug which she had carefully rammed into the UK socket in her flat.** The toaster casing was metallic. The earth clips on the plug were, of course, not connected to anything...

    I explained that this was sub-optimal and replaced with a UK plug. I think that's when she realised I was a keeper...

    * Not literally, fortunately
    ** Shouldn't have been possible, as the earth pin from a UK plug should be required to open the shutters on the live and neutral, so either a faulty socket too or sufficient insertion force had ovecome that protection
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,813
    edited September 23

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Apple fandom in the 1990s and early 2000s made sense. Their products were significantly better than everyone else's yet most of the public continued to buy computers/devices from other companies like Microsoft, and it was almost impossible to get them to change their minds. The iPod and iPhone finally changed that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    A book I read on the big companies recently left me with the impression Facebook was the most evil, followed by Google. Apple came across as genius in marketing an everyday product to luxury profit levels.
    Yes indeed. I’d put Uber alongside Facebook right at the top though. Destroying an entire industry by ignoring laws and making massive losses, driving (sic) the competition out of business.
    The book was titled 'The Four', which might explain that, though it touch upon Uber for its future potential.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,090
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    In a narrow data perspective, maybe. In terms of sustainability and planned obsolescence of their products not so much. They put battery limitations in their software updates to make iPhone users upgrade, even people who replaced their batteries officially through Apple found that their battery life was shit and it was because iOS had been updated to make it that way.
    Yes, not totally saints, but way less evil than Google, Amazon, Uber, and the social media companies.
    Som oef their gear is remarkable - the popularity of the Mac Pro laptop line among developers is quite marked.

    OSX is one of the better UNIX variants, IMHO
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,364
    isam said:

    Agree with Mike that Labour should have a female leader, who would unsettle Boris more than Sir Keir does. My choice would be Jess Phillips but maybe Rayner would do well also. Similar attitude

    Jess Phillips is one of a tiny group of possible leaders that would get me thinking about voting Labour in a GE (I usually vote Labour in local elections). Rayner absolutely not. A Rayner leadership would make a Tory majority firm favourite at the next election.

    Labour either needs a charismatic reply to Boris (Jess about the only candidate there) or stick with dull decency but adding some actual policy on tough issues.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 887
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    Obviously. Being feisty is not a characteristic of men. None that I have ever met anyway. Hysterical may be.

    Both Mr Kle and Mr Fishing seem to think sex is irrelevant. Very strange.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,612
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    Boris Johnson, maybe not any more but previously
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    edited September 23
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    Eric Joyce ?

    I don't see it used in the thread header though.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,793
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think this energy crisis could bring down the government?

    As likely as the fuel protests in 2000 brought down Blair.
    We are about to see a 12%+ hike in energy prices attached to a £20 cut in Universal Credit.

    It probably won't make any difference but the elements are in place for it to be obvious.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,090
    Selebian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    Compatibility can be greater than you think!

    I remember, shortly after getting together with my (now) wife having a bit of a shock* one morning to find that her toaster, bought when she lived in mainland Europe, still had its Schuko-style plug which she had carefully rammed into the UK socket in her flat.** The toaster casing was metallic. The earth clips on the plug were, of course, not connected to anything...

    I explained that this was sub-optimal and replaced with a UK plug. I think that's when she realised I was a keeper...

    * Not literally, fortunately
    ** Shouldn't have been possible, as the earth pin from a UK plug should be required to open the shutters on the live and neutral, so either a faulty socket too or sufficient insertion force had ovecome that protection
    240 volts... mmmm..

    Has a distinct taste. and feel. Very different to 50 volts....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,694
    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    Obviously. Being feisty is not a characteristic of men. None that I have ever met anyway. Hysterical may be.

    Both Mr Kle and Mr Fishing seem to think sex is irrelevant. Very strange.
    Men are never "lively, determined, and courageous"?

    Or just never in that uniquely winsome way that only the laydeez, god bless 'em, can manage?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,694
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    Another benefit of Brexit, not forcing companies to have to deal with crap like this.
    Bollocks. This is a highly sensible move.
    I'm just waiting on the one world government so it can sort out this mess with plug sockets
    I thought those were emojis.
    Alien abduction photofits.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    Eric Joyce ?

    I don't see it used in the thread header though.
    Updated with articulate. I'm making no comment on that!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    Eric Joyce ?

    I don't see it used in the thread header though.
    Updated with articulate. I'm making no comment on that!
    Mike should have doubled down and added "flame haired" :D
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    edited September 23
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    A book I read on the big companies recently left me with the impression Facebook was the most evil, followed by Google. Apple came across as genius in marketing an everyday product to luxury profit levels.
    I have a fairly loose theory about companies. Like fish, they rot from their head. And the head is based on the corporate culture. A corporate culture is set up when the company is, by its founders, and can take years or decades to change.

    Therefore many companies are based around the culture inspired by their founders: this is particularly true where the founders are celebrities. Hence Apple, who worship a guy who named a computer after a child he could not even admit was his, conducts business in a similar manner now.

    Corporate culture can change, particularly for the worse. Boeing used to be known for great engineering, but in the decades since the McDonnell Douglas takeover their culture has changed to one where the bottom line matters more than good engineering. Hence the 737 Max and the Starliner debacles (+many more). This does not happen overnight.

    In Facebook's case, the warning signs are clear. Before Facebook, Zuckerberg started FaceMash, and he nearly got chucked out of Harvard because of his (ahem) liberal disregard of data and privacy rules. “Issues about violating people’s privacy don’t seem to be surmountable,” Zuckerberg told the Crimson about Facemash in an issue published in November 2003.

    From the head, the body rots.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,481
    edited September 23
    algarkirk said:

    isam said:

    Agree with Mike that Labour should have a female leader, who would unsettle Boris more than Sir Keir does. My choice would be Jess Phillips but maybe Rayner would do well also. Similar attitude

    Jess Phillips is one of a tiny group of possible leaders that would get me thinking about voting Labour in a GE (I usually vote Labour in local elections). Rayner absolutely not. A Rayner leadership would make a Tory majority firm favourite at the next election.

    Labour either needs a charismatic reply to Boris (Jess about the only candidate there) or stick with dull decency but adding some actual policy on tough issues.
    I think the advantages Jess has are a) being able to be known on first name terms, like a brand ("Boris" even though, yes it isn't his first name), and b) seemingly being a perfect mix of the two sides of the Labour coin - she is politicxally quite a Blairite, but comes across like an angry Corbynite. Party diehards will know the truth, but the average voter will see a kind of (deliberately) common looking, plain speaking, working class woman, authentic old Labour rather than a grammar school educated middle class, daughter of quite high achieving parents, authentic new Labour
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,005
    edited September 23

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    You realise i am joking about them being crap right? Expensive, absolutely, not significantly better than leading Samsung (in fact things like the screens for iPhone are made by Samsung) debatale, but i don't actually think they are crap.

    It is just a gentle prod of apple fan boy culture, cough cough TSE, for whom Apple can do no wrong ever and they pre-order every new product. I think TSE said he has 13 or 14 apple devices.

    When the reality their innovation, especially in the phone product, has really been lacking in the past few years. Still having the lightening port on the iPhone is a good example. They will go all wireless charging eventually, but not going usb-c like the rest of their products is just trying to squeeze that bit more juice out of their customers.
  • I have two suggestions re PMQ,
    1. When either Starmer or Rayner ask a question it is preceded by a long and often rambling, introduction. A short, punchy question would be straight to the point woould mean that they could ask maybe three more questions.
    2 Ask the question and when it is not answered simply note that it has not been answered and "record" that it hasn't and then ask the next short question.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    edited September 23
    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    Obviously. Being feisty is not a characteristic of men. None that I have ever met anyway. Hysterical may be.

    Both Mr Kle and Mr Fishing seem to think sex is irrelevant. Very strange.
    I have no idea where you got that from. I see no reason both men or women could not be fesity or hysterical (the definition of feisty does not seem to meet your restriction) and ideally we should not mind using both for either.

    But I do think it would be obtuse to pretend that hysterical in particular is pretty well recognised as unfortunately having a history as a gendered criticism of women.

    Language doesn't exist in a vacuum. I'm opposed to restricting our use of words generally, but that doesn't mean some words don't come with a history and if they are going to be used they need to be used properly (ie, only describing people as hysterical if they are hysterical, not as a generic critque most often applied to one gender).

    I'll describe people as feisty or hysterical, and there was nothing wrong with OGH's usage. But that doesn't mean tlg86 was out of left field for noting that some words come with connotations sometimes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    Eric Joyce ?

    I don't see it used in the thread header though.
    Ahhh, Eric Joyce. Causing Labour massive problems since 2013, and leading pretty much directly to Corbyn’s election as leader.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    edited September 23

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    Of all the tech giants, Apple is possibly the least evil. At least you know you’re their customer, rather than their product.
    A book I read on the big companies recently left me with the impression Facebook was the most evil, followed by Google. Apple came across as genius in marketing an everyday product to luxury profit levels.
    I have a fairly loose theory about companies. Like fish, they rot from their head. And the head is based on the corporate culture. A corporate culture is set up when the company is, by its founders, and can take years or decades to change.

    Therefore many companies are based around the culture inspired by their founders: this is particularly true where the founders are celebrities. Hence Apple, who worship a guy who named a computer after a child he could not even admit was his, conducts business in a similar manner now.

    Corporate culture can change, particularly for the worse. Boeing used to be known for great engineering, but in the decades since the McDonnell Douglas takeover their culture has changed to one where the bottom line matters more than good engineering. Hence the 737 Max and the Starliner debacles (+many more). This does not happen overnight.

    In Facebook's case, the warning signs are clear. Before Facebook, Zuckerberg started FaceSMsh, and he nearly got chucked out of Harvard because of his (ahem) liberal disregard of data and privacy rules. “Issues about violating people’s privacy don’t seem to be surmountable,” Zuckerberg told the Crimson about Facemash in an issue published in November 2003.

    From the head, the body rots.
    Good old Starliner, due for a second uncrewed test flight late November 2021*. Meanwhile Musk has just spun four non professional astronauts on a 3 day 360 mile high Netflixtravaganza joy ride above the earth.

    * Probably won't be 2021.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,793

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    You realise i am joking about them being crap right? Expensive, absolutely, not significantly better than leading Samsung (in fact things like the screens for iPhone are made by Samsung) debatale, but i don't actually think they are crap.

    It is just a gentle prod of apple fan boy culture, cough cough TSE, for whom Apple can do no wrong ever and they pre-order every new product. I think TSE said he has 13 or 14 apple devices.

    When the reality their innovation, especially in the phone product, has really been lacking in the past few years. Still having the lightening port on the iPhone is a good example. They will go all wireless charging eventually, but not going usb-c like the rest of their products is just trying to squeeze that bit more juice out of their customers.
    Is it? Given that most Apple customers are now replacing an iPhone ?? with iPhone ??+2/3 surely the most environmental thing is to allow the old connector to be used.

    I have multiple lightning cables in this house if iPhones used Usb C I would need to buy 3 or so more USB cables.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,694
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News - EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

    The iCrap will have to get with the times.

    A few people on this forum have an absolutely bizarre obsession with Apple. Josias is another one.

    It really is quite simple: if you don't like Apple products, you don't have to buy them.
    I have very good professional, technical, personal, and ethical reasons to dislike Apple as a company.
    They are undoubtably evil, but no more or less so than their competitors, eg Google, Microsoft.

    Apple-Aversion is a weird cult.
    I've never worked with Google, but I have with MS and Apple. There is no comparison IME.

    Apple fandom is a weird cult. Paying way over value just for a logo. ;)
    Apple fandom in the 1990s and early 2000s made sense. Their products were significantly better than everyone else's yet most of the public continued to buy computers/devices from other companies like Microsoft, and it was almost impossible to get them to change their minds. The iPod and iPhone finally changed that.
    At the stage when the ROW had caught up anyway. And MacOS wasn't really all that, and all the peripherals were insanely overpriced.

    The Apple ecosystem is insanely nannying, I have utterly non tech friends who ask me to sort their problems for them and I can't because a forgotten password has locked them out of their IDs and there is no way of resetting the device because it is so overpriced that it being stolen or not, is a bigger concern than it functioning or not.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,801
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    tlg86 said:

    Referring to a woman as "feisty" is generally considered sexist.

    But referring to a man like that isn't? Sounds rather sexist to me.
    I don't have figures on it, but I'd not be surprised if men are rarely referred to as feisty, hence why it might be considered sexist. See also 'hysterical'.
    If she fit the definition of fesity, call her feisty. If she doesn't, don't. Same with a man. Gender doesn't come into it.

    Same with hysterical (though my beef with that word is how many illiterates confuse it with "hilarious").
    Name a feisty male MP.
    IDS.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,757
    edited September 23

    I have two suggestions re PMQ,
    1. When either Starmer or Rayner ask a question it is preceded by a long and often rambling, introduction. A short, punchy question would be straight to the point woould mean that they could ask maybe three more questions.
    2 Ask the question and when it is not answered simply note that it has not been answered and "record" that it hasn't and then ask the next short question.

    I think that would work much better. Unless you're really confident you can get something out of them with a follow up, that you have a trap waiting for them, just move on, and the commentary surround questions doesn't work.

    Plus it contrasts with Boris's blustering style.
This discussion has been closed.