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BoJo would find it more challenging facing Angela Rayner – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,723

    glw said:

    And what happens when USB-C isn't king anymore? Imagine this legislation a few years ago, we'd all be required to have Micro USB ports on everything today. Any stipulations for this to sunset/be revised? Or will people be fighting to finally overturn this in 5 yrs?

    https://twitter.com/Sentdex/status/1441134238137344017?s=19

    I get the intent, but if the regulations stop the adoption of something better that would be immensely stupid.
    Its a solution looking for a problem.

    Twenty years ago when every phone had a different charger that was stupid. But consumers said it was stupid and the industry sorted it out.

    Now there's two modern standards (USB-C and lightning) and a third older standard (Micro USB) which just shows how standards need to change and why sticking to only one is stupid. If this had happened years ago would we have all still had to stick with Micro USB?

    Why can't consumers choose from the choice of just two modern standards? Its not like there's thirty different ones anymore.
    A sensible compromise would be to require all electronics to have an ANSI recognised connector - which might have the beneficial side effect of Apple seeking to get Lightning recognised (and therefore having sensible licensing terms).
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316

    Farooq said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    Quitting the private rented sector and doing what with the property?
    We have done this before, the houses spontaneously combust when landlords sell.
    "If I can't get someone else to pay my mortgage, down it comes!"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,146
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    Did you read what you were responding to initially? The proposal was to replace Council Tax with a property tax (it could be called Rates). So yes, the Rates would replace the Council Tax.

    If landlords are quitting the sector then who are they selling to?
    In the area I am familiar with, it is landlords selling their properties to developers, who do them up and then sell them to people coming down from London to live here; thus displacing the poor people who were here before, who then present themselves at the Council homeless. No changes to any system of taxation is going to solve this problem.
    The problem is planning - let people build houses, and the artificial scarcity goes away.
  • RIP "Zero COVID"

    New Zealand’s strategy to eliminate the coronavirus may have been defeated by the Delta strain, the country’s health chief has conceded.

    With the country’s largest city, Auckland, in lockdown since mid-August, the health director-general Dr Ashley Bloomfield has warned that the nation may not return to zero Covid-19 cases. Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister, has previously committed to elimination of the virus despite the view of her Australian counterpart, Scott Morrison, that this goal was “absurd”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/db962da6-1c5f-11ec-95b9-6429167b0259?shareToken=2230b88deb449e257dfe8f57a2c674c9

    I’m not a fan of Jacinda.

    But what you won’t read in the Times is that the covid elimination strategy is publicly acknowledged as contingent on low vaccination rates.

    The debate is what the right level of vaccination is to allow re-opening; Jacinda had previously suggested early next year but that was before the current outbreak.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    Peston: food inflation of 5% expected.
  • Another headache for Rishi, as September's inflation rate is used for pension increases so if it is 4% that is the rate or increase in April 22
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,146
    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong
    You can get £400 a month on a £60k house? That’s more than 8% return.

    Do I need to assume that the £60k house is like buying a 15 year old car, as I just did, and not expecting the occasional shocking repair bill?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    Did you read what you were responding to initially? The proposal was to replace Council Tax with a property tax (it could be called Rates). So yes, the Rates would replace the Council Tax.

    If landlords are quitting the sector then who are they selling to?
    In the area I am familiar with, it is landlords selling their properties to developers, who do them up and then sell them to people coming down from London to live here; thus displacing the poor people who were here before, who then present themselves at the Council homeless. No changes to any system of taxation is going to solve this problem.
    Housing in London is thusly freed up...
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,120
    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
  • darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    You can get £4800 a year for a £35k investment?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    "The number of households in the private rented sector in the UK increased from 2.8 million in 2007 to 4.5 million in 2017, an increase of 1.7 million (63%) households."
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/ukprivaterentedsector/2018

    And the rise is driven by middle-aged people. The number of 45-54 years old renting more than doubled in that period.
  • Quick work if they've got the right chap:

    A 38-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Sabina Nessa in south-east London, the Metropolitan Police said.

    Ms Nessa's body was found by a member of the public in Cator Park in Kidbrooke.

    Officers believe the 28-year-old teacher was attacked shortly after leaving her home in Astell Road at about 20:30 BST on Friday.

    The force has also released a CCTV image of a man they are searching for.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-58671588
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,484

    Quick work if they've got the right chap:

    A 38-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Sabina Nessa in south-east London, the Metropolitan Police said.

    Ms Nessa's body was found by a member of the public in Cator Park in Kidbrooke.

    Officers believe the 28-year-old teacher was attacked shortly after leaving her home in Astell Road at about 20:30 BST on Friday.

    The force has also released a CCTV image of a man they are searching for.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-58671588

    Not that quick. It’s been a week.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,146
    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,904

    Quick work if they've got the right chap:

    A 38-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Sabina Nessa in south-east London, the Metropolitan Police said.

    Ms Nessa's body was found by a member of the public in Cator Park in Kidbrooke.

    Officers believe the 28-year-old teacher was attacked shortly after leaving her home in Astell Road at about 20:30 BST on Friday.

    The force has also released a CCTV image of a man they are searching for.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-58671588

    Not that quick. It’s been a week.
    The important thing of course is whether they have the right man and the evidence if so. I hope so, and if they do I don't think a week is bad going. If not, then the timing is immaterial.
  • Huge queues at petrol pumps tomorrow then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,196
    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,829

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    You can get £4800 a year for a £35k investment?
    Nope as Sandpit says it requires £20-25k of work.

    Plus it’s not so much an issue in Darlington but in the surrounding villages, it’s often the case that rent won’t be paid after x months, and when you finally evict them it’s another refurb job
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316

    Huge queues at petrol pumps tomorrow then.

    fuel crisis, or angry landlords torching their excess housing because they can only get 8% return?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,776
    edited September 2021

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,120

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    You can get £4800 a year for a £35k investment?
    Thats a gross yield, before your costs are taken in to account, and is based on the assumption that the rent is actually paid on time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914

    Huge queues at petrol pumps tomorrow then.

    I filled up at Morrisons today, no queue; no pumps off.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,829
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    You can get £4800 a year for a £35k investment?
    Thats a gross yield, before your costs are taken in to account, and is based on the assumption that the rent is actually paid.
    FTFY
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    Not good.

    "Supermodel Linda Evangelista has said she has been left "permanently deformed" due to an adverse reaction to a fat reduction procedure. The 56-year-old revealed she had experienced a rare cosmetic side effect of the treatment five years ago which actually increased her fat cells. "I have been left, as the media has described, 'unrecognisable'," she told her 900,000 Instagram followers. Evangelista explained it was the reason she'd disappeared from the public eye."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58662756
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,146
    Andy_JS said:

    Not good.

    "Supermodel Linda Evangelista has said she has been left "permanently deformed" due to an adverse reaction to a fat reduction procedure. The 56-year-old revealed she had experienced a rare cosmetic side effect of the treatment five years ago which actually increased her fat cells. "I have been left, as the media has described, 'unrecognisable'," she told her 900,000 Instagram followers. Evangelista explained it was the reason she'd disappeared from the public eye."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58662756

    And in a totally unrelated story, said supermodel has just filed a lawsuit against a cosmetic surgery clinic.
    Getting her own version of events in the media first.
  • Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,829
    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    Actually given the forthcoming epc rules you probably need another 10k on top to add external insulation to the outer wall. Mid terraces are better there as there is less you need to insulate.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Not good.

    "Supermodel Linda Evangelista has said she has been left "permanently deformed" due to an adverse reaction to a fat reduction procedure. The 56-year-old revealed she had experienced a rare cosmetic side effect of the treatment five years ago which actually increased her fat cells. "I have been left, as the media has described, 'unrecognisable'," she told her 900,000 Instagram followers. Evangelista explained it was the reason she'd disappeared from the public eye."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58662756

    No. But caveat emptor surely?

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,904
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,146
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    Actually given the forthcoming epc rules you probably need another 10k on top to add external insulation to the outer wall. Mid terraces are better there as there is less you need to insulate.
    So you’re up to £80k or £90k by the time it’s rentable, a lot of which needs to be in cash rather than mortgage, and then it’s £400 or £500 a month in income. That’s more marginal than the headline figures might suggest!
  • eekeek Posts: 18,829
    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    Yep, see my point below. That house needs £35k of work on it to meet the long term requirements (external insulation would be the only way to get there)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914
    Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Should be billed for the full, true cost. Its not like giving up a decades long smoking or drink addiction. Heck it's not like developing healthy eating and exercise habits or asking someone to give up motorcycles or horse riding. It's going to the clinic, taking an hour out of a couple of days and getting an injection. Its so so so easy compared to the rest of life

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,776
    edited September 2021
    As the good book said...




    (Times)
  • Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Indeed and of course it is devolved to the Welsh government, so in Wales it is their problem but also ours
  • Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
  • Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    The budget in October will be a big test for Rishi
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    Results from the Isle of Man general election have started to come through. VoteUK forum for details.
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,120
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    Actually given the forthcoming epc rules you probably need another 10k on top to add external insulation to the outer wall. Mid terraces are better there as there is less you need to insulate.
    So you’re up to £80k or £90k by the time it’s rentable, a lot of which needs to be in cash rather than mortgage, and then it’s £400 or £500 a month in income. That’s more marginal than the headline figures might suggest!
    You may have just proved my initial point as to why landlords are giving up thus leaving a shortage of available housing in the private rented sector. However I think the renovation/investment is not quite at the level imagined, for instance there is a cap at £3500 for improvements towards improving the EPC rating.
  • Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    The budget in October will be a big test for Rishi
    Massive.
  • darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    Council tax should be scrapped because its regressive, expensive and inefficient to collect, and based on valuations from the dark ages.

    Property tax should pay for council services.
    Better still a land tax, a property tax is a disincentive to improve the property.
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    Actually given the forthcoming epc rules you probably need another 10k on top to add external insulation to the outer wall. Mid terraces are better there as there is less you need to insulate.
    So you’re up to £80k or £90k by the time it’s rentable, a lot of which needs to be in cash rather than mortgage, and then it’s £400 or £500 a month in income. That’s more marginal than the headline figures might suggest!
    You may have just proved my initial point as to why landlords are giving up thus leaving a shortage of available housing in the private rented sector. However I think the renovation/investment is not quite at the level imagined, for instance there is a cap at £3500 for improvements towards improving the EPC rating.
    But... they aren't! Private sector up 63% in the period 2007-2017. Are you working off anecdata or what?
  • eekeek Posts: 18,829
    carnforth said:

    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
    You would be over paying for double glazing then. The issue is that once you spend £3500 you need to apply for an exemption and that exemption may be removed at any point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914
    carnforth said:

    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
    Not sure how long the double glazing will last judging by the stuff opposite (Is that even housing ?)
  • Pulpstar said:

    Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Should be billed for the full, true cost. Its not like giving up a decades long smoking or drink addiction. Heck it's not like developing healthy eating and exercise habits or asking someone to give up motorcycles or horse riding. It's going to the clinic, taking an hour out of a couple of days and getting an injection. Its so so so easy compared to the rest of life

    I'm close to the end of my tether with the anti-vaxxers. It's contrary to all my normal opinions, but I'm beginning to come to the view that if they don't want to take advantage of modern medical science by taking the vaccine that we should make that an all-or-nothing sort of choice, reopen the nightingale hospitals, and have the anti-vaxxers treated for Covid there with only the medical science available to Florence in the 19th century.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    It won’t be worse than last winter when people were banned from having Christmas dinner with their families
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    There have been 96 homicides in London this year so far. 83 of the victims were male.

    https://www.murdermap.co.uk/statistics/london-murders-2021-latest-total/
  • Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
    Not sure how long the double glazing will last judging by the stuff opposite (Is that even housing ?)
    Looks like (ex?) light industrial.

    PB should buy the house, and we can settle these discussions with reality.

    (The description mentions a boiler in the bathroom, so it seems it does have central heating.)
  • As the good book said...




    (Times)

    Because nothing reduces panic better than No 10 urging people not to panic.
  • there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    OK. This article on the future of the Quad is worth resetting my password yet again for, to enable me to share with you. Very interesting insights and predictions, which intuitively feel right, especially the idea that it will be China's own actions that are the glue to strengthen the Quad and be an impediment to China's own ambitions.

    The other thing that this article does is demonstrate with glaring clarity just how in reverse Japan's economy has been for a while.

    https://www.cnbc.com/quad-summit-and-china-game-theory-predictions-for-the-future-of-the-quad/

    For anyone interested in geopolitics, I'd say this is a must read.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316

    there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
    And if you see none of those things, then what?
  • darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you jeopordise those two issues summarised above.

    Can you go through point 1 slowly for me ?
    I've been round this before on here. So people present themselves as homeless. The Council have a duty to house them. There is no Council Housing. So the Council need private landlords. If there are no landlords, then there is nowhere to house these people.
    If landlords sell up because Council Tax has been replaced with a £150 per annum tax (on your numbers) then who would they have sold their homes to?

    Or do you expect the homes to be demolished?

    Council houses were sold off via right to buy so people could own their own home, not so that people could buy other people's homes.
    I don't know who came up with 'abolish council tax' idea, but it is a total non starter. Such taxes are merely paying for services provided by the Council. If they aren't funded by Council tax, they need to be funded some other way. How?

    None of this changes the problem that you need a private rented sector; rents are increasing because landlords are quitting the private rented sector, amongst other things. Supply and demand etc.
    Council tax should be scrapped because its regressive, expensive and inefficient to collect, and based on valuations from the dark ages.

    Property tax should pay for council services.
    Better still a land tax, a property tax is a disincentive to improve the property.
    Agreed.

    I don't see any reason why building an extension should lead to an increase in taxes, its the same land being used.

    Similarly I don't see why buying land and "banking" it should lead to a reduction in taxes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,474
    edited September 2021
    Farooq said:

    there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
    And if you see none of those things, then what?
    I am not pre judging his budget but those are the areas that need attention and there was some talk today that those on UC are to keep more of their earnings
  • Andy_JS said:

    Results from the Isle of Man general election have started to come through. VoteUK forum for details.

    Results so far are confirming exit polling

    https://www.iomelections.com/2021/results/
  • isam said:

    Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    It won’t be worse than last winter when people were banned from having Christmas dinner with their families
    Slightly different, though.

    Christmas 2020 was a fiasco. And that sudden fall down the cliff edge from "It'll be lovely" to "It'll be limited but fine" to "REMAIN INDOORS" should have led to heads rolling. My memory of that time was having half done gift shopping at the moment when London was reconfined to barracks. And that's before we get onto schools.

    But there was some legitimate slack to be cut. It was a mismanagement of the virus, but the virus was a substantial foe. If Christmas 2021 is rubbish, let alone the rest of winter 2021/2, it will be much more because of distinctive decisions that the UK government has taken. And if the plan is to say "this is a consequence of what the voters asked the government to do" (which is a line they seem to be trying)... good luck with that. They'll need it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,492

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    isam said:

    Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    It won’t be worse than last winter when people were banned from having Christmas dinner with their families
    Slightly different, though.

    Christmas 2020 was a fiasco. And that sudden fall down the cliff edge from "It'll be lovely" to "It'll be limited but fine" to "REMAIN INDOORS" should have led to heads rolling. My memory of that time was having half done gift shopping at the moment when London was reconfined to barracks. And that's before we get onto schools.

    But there was some legitimate slack to be cut. It was a mismanagement of the virus, but the virus was a substantial foe. If Christmas 2021 is rubbish, let alone the rest of winter 2021/2, it will be much more because of distinctive decisions that the UK government has taken. And if the plan is to say "this is a consequence of what the voters asked the government to do" (which is a line they seem to be trying)... good luck with that. They'll need it.
    Well of course - when the govt ‘gets away’ with a forecast disaster, the forecaster with nothing to lose has to say the next one will be worse
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914
    carnforth said:

    Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
    Not sure how long the double glazing will last judging by the stuff opposite (Is that even housing ?)
    Looks like (ex?) light industrial.

    PB should buy the house, and we can settle these discussions with reality.

    (The description mentions a boiler in the bathroom, so it seems it does have central heating.)
    Project lead gets to go on the telly with Dion Dublin.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,541
    isam said:

    Looking like this winter is going to the worst as far as crisis, economic turmoil, inflation, shortages and general shit goes in at least 40 years.

    Is Boris the right man to guide us through?

    We shall soon see.

    Don't count Sir K out just yet would be my prediction.

    It won’t be worse than last winter when people were banned from having Christmas dinner with their families
    It seems like a dream meeting my sister in a car park to exchange presents I wonder whether people will recall that time and say well at least we can all meet up now ain't life great. Or whether it will be a "that was then" experience and people will find new things to worry/complain about.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,316

    Farooq said:

    there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
    And if you see none of those things, then what?
    I am not pre judging his budget but those are the areas that need attention and there was some talk today that those on UC are to keep more of their earnings
    That's a lot of words for "then nothing"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,541
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    edited September 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Results from the Isle of Man general election have started to come through. VoteUK forum for details.

    Results so far are confirming exit polling

    https://www.iomelections.com/2021/results/
    CORRECTION - at least one result the exit poll did NOT predict, indeed was way off:

    Rushen (2)

    Juan Watterson (I - current Speaker HoK) 2,384 - elected
    Michelle Haywood 1,386 - elected
    Mark Kemp 1,163
    Andrew Langan-Newton 1,109

    Exit poll said winners were #1 Watterson, #2 Langan-Newton, who ran for the Manx Green Party; note only one incumbent in this constituency as one seat was vacant

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,492
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
    And if you see none of those things, then what?
    I am not pre judging his budget but those are the areas that need attention and there was some talk today that those on UC are to keep more of their earnings
    That's a lot of words for "then nothing"
    With respect there is little I could say to you that would not be criticised so be it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,541
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    I'm just saying that there have been such headlines for years (that famous montage of Graun front pages) and here we are.

    So we as a nation must be content to put up with it.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    there is growing expectation/resignation in EU that U.K. will trigger Article 16.

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1441128928953909248?s=20

    As they should.
    Because GB-NI trade is collapsing.

    Remind me who signed that deal.
    The sad thing, if it happens, is that it will no doubt be marketed as evidence of Boris's machismo.
    I do not think it would do Boris any harm in the red wall seats
    They wont notice when the UC cut hits them right between the eyes.
    Looks like that is under consideration in the budget

    As I said it is a big moment for Rishi and I will be looking for fairness and help for the lower paid and impoverished pensioners
    And if you see none of those things, then what?
    I am not pre judging his budget but those are the areas that need attention and there was some talk today that those on UC are to keep more of their earnings
    That's a lot of words for "then nothing"
    With respect there is little I could say to you that would not be criticised so be it
    @Roy_G_Biv -esque I’d say
  • Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    To be fair everything is not fine in the NHS throughout the devolved administrations but billions are being put in and it is not a infinite resource

    Add in social care and climate change and it is fair to ask just how is it all going to be financed
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,914
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    The NHS has had more funding increase than any other govt department though. What do you suggest ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,492
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    I'm just saying that there have been such headlines for years (that famous montage of Graun front pages) and here we are.

    So we as a nation must be content to put up with it.
    Well, that belief will be tested severely these next few months.

    Do you not get the feeling that things are spiralling out of control?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,484
    edited September 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    That'll need 30-40k spending.

    And I'd say the "offers over" price is probably a flash of the knickers.
  • Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    I'm just saying that there have been such headlines for years (that famous montage of Graun front pages) and here we are.

    So we as a nation must be content to put up with it.
    Well, that belief will be tested severely these next few months.

    Do you not get the feeling that things are spiralling out of control?
    Yes. When ambulances are stuck outside A&E departments because they can't offload patients, so their aren't enough ambulances to go out to answer emergency calls, the system has become dysfunctional and people will die unnecessarily. That seems out of control to my simple mind.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,484
    carnforth said:

    Quincel said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I worked for many years in Councils, and the reality on the ground is that you need a private rented sector for two reasons:

    1) housing of vulnerable people as the state do not do it, most of the time, for good reasons.
    2) Inward investment, people doing up properties promotes economic activity in the area.

    If you kill the private rented sector through punitive wealth taxes, then you run in to those two problems summarised above.

    Switzerland has a wealth tax.
    So does New York (ie a property tax)

    Do they have a rental sector?
    Oh, they do.
    You cannot compare Darlington with Zurich or New York.
    Why not?
    Because houses cost nothing in Darlington. You can buy a house there for £30,000. Go in to the rural hinterlands of County Durham, and houses are being given away for next to nothing to first time buyers, if they do the place up.

    Landlords coming in, buying the properties, doing them up and renting them out to people who have issues in their lives that mean that home ownership isn't right for them can only be regarded as a social good. They take the burden away from the state and generate economic activity.

    Love to know where in Darlington you wou;d buy a house for £30k. £60k will get you a 2 up, 2 down Terrance in the Denes, prices little different since 2004

    Equally I wouldn’t want that sort of hassle for £400 or so a month, there are far too many things that could go wrong


    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113532656#/?channel=RES_BUY

    Doesn't take too long to do a search on rightmove, but there you go.

    You are absolutely correct. Why go in to such hassle for £400 a month. There is too much regulation and responsibility, which is another reason that landlords are quitting the sector.
    An advert with one photo, of the outside front of the property. One can obviously assume, that ‘requires modernisation’ means it’s completely gutted and unlivable inside, until you spend £20k more than the £35k asking price?
    No ch, no double glazing, bottom energy rating, and so on.
    On the energy rating, any prospective PB-landlords should be aware of MEES:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance
    "The cost cap: you will never be required to spend more than £3,500 (including VAT) on energy efficiency improvements."

    If you're double glazing anyway, you're probably at £3500 just with that.
    Proposals to increase it to £10k were consulted on last January. Sensible.

    And to bring forward the EPC level C requirement to 2025 - which is too soon as the staff to renovate are not sufficiently available. We talked about this earlier.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,492
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    The NHS has had more funding increase than any other govt department though. What do you suggest ?
    I don't think it primarily about funding. The problem is shortness of capacity, staff vacancies, inadequate bed numbers, atrophy of postgraduate training, demoralisation.

    Money cannot fix a broken system.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,541
    edited September 2021
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    I'm just saying that there have been such headlines for years (that famous montage of Graun front pages) and here we are.

    So we as a nation must be content to put up with it.
    Well, that belief will be tested severely these next few months.

    Do you not get the feeling that things are spiralling out of control?
    I think the govt is certainly losing it (control).

    But the NHS has pretty well been ringfenced spending wise. That's not to say I am at all a fan of the NHS model as you may be aware from my various posts about my experiences (and the anecdotal experiences of just about everyone I know) with it.

    Another NHS in crisis headline won't I believe gain traction.
  • Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    Interesting story that one. One moral, the one often drawn, is to not cry wolf prematurely, in case you aren't believed. The other is that you have to be careful about discounting wolf-crying just because it has turned out wrong in the past.

    Even if there hasn't been a wolf in the past, there might still be one this time. You have to judge the evidence and the risk/benefit on its merits...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,541
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    The NHS has had more funding increase than any other govt department though. What do you suggest ?
    I don't think it primarily about funding. The problem is shortness of capacity, staff vacancies, inadequate bed numbers, atrophy of postgraduate training, demoralisation.

    Money cannot fix a broken system.
    Is my point. The model needs reforming but no govt dares to do so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    edited September 2021
    Maybe ReformUK need to think of a new name, one that actually makes them sound like the populist party they are. The word "reform" arguably sounds too bland.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited September 2021

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    Interesting story that one. One moral, the one often drawn, is to not cry wolf prematurely, in case you aren't believed. The other is that you have to be careful about discounting wolf-crying just because it has turned out wrong in the past.

    Even if there hasn't been a wolf in the past, there might still be one this time. You have to judge the evidence and the risk/benefit on its merits...
    …..

    ‘Johnson Variant’ 🙄





  • Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    Interesting story that one. One moral, the one often drawn, is to not cry wolf prematurely, in case you aren't believed. The other is that you have to be careful about discounting wolf-crying just because it has turned out wrong in the past.

    Even if there hasn't been a wolf in the past, there might still be one this time. You have to judge the evidence and the risk/benefit on its merits...
    I’ve heard it used as an example of how “the moral of the story” and “the ending of the story” are different concepts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,492
    The 4 hour target for seeing and treating in ED is a very imperfect measure, but probably the single easiest measure of strain on the NHS. August's was the worst figure on record, worse than the peaks of both the initial wave and last winters one.

    The data are here:

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/ae-waiting-times-and-activity/

    But when I see things spiralling out of control, I don't just mean the NHS.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe ReformUK need to think of a new name, one that actually makes them sound like the populist party they are. The word "reform" arguably sounds too bland.

    I think it should start with New.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,458
    We've known for decades that the percentage of older people would be much higher than it used to be, and therefore the NHS would come under pressure in a way it didn't before. Did we adequately prepare for that over the last 20 or 30 years? Probably not.
  • carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Rising taxes
    Rising interest rates
    Rising prices
    Food, energy and petrol shortages.

    Could be a fun old winter, eh?

    Rising hospital waiting lists too.

    Just as well I still have last years Christmas Dinner in the freezer. At least until the power cuts hit.
    ITV Wales was so depressing over Wales NHS which has the longest A & E waiting times and waiting lists ever, and the second worst ambulance response times
    V bleak article in this week's New Statesman from a GP. NHS totally at its limits and only September.

    Even on-call doctors are struggling to get an ambulance out to emergencies on their hotlines - sometimes takes hours. Bed blockers filling hospitals because so few care staff so no places for them to be discharged. Precious critical beds taken up by the unvaxxed with covid.
    Wow, it is a bleak article, but sadly my view from the hospital ain't very different. This resonated with me:

    "Steadily eroding pay and conditions are significant reasons why staff quit. But survey evidence suggests these are less important than the demoralising inability to provide the standard of care they trained for, in a system that has been progressively starved of resources relative to need. And ill-health is compounding these retention problems."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/09/state-of-a-covid-nation-why-this-winter-could-push-the-nhs-to-breaking-point
    Not to minimise the problem but there have been NHS at breaking point headlines and articles every year for the past 20 years.

    We as a country evidently are happy to put up with it.
    Sure, everything is fine. There is no wolf.
    Interesting story that one. One moral, the one often drawn, is to not cry wolf prematurely, in case you aren't believed. The other is that you have to be careful about discounting wolf-crying just because it has turned out wrong in the past.

    Even if there hasn't been a wolf in the past, there might still be one this time. You have to judge the evidence and the risk/benefit on its merits...
    I’ve heard it used as an example of how “the moral of the story” and “the ending of the story” are different concepts.
    Ooh. Intriguing- can you point me towards some more?

    One of the things I'm thinking about in a different context is the way that really good stories- the sort that a community like a nation or faith get built around- have different, complementary but all healthy interpretations. Really effective politicians can do the same...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,723
    Andy_JS said:

    There have been 96 homicides in London this year so far. 83 of the victims were male.

    https://www.murdermap.co.uk/statistics/london-murders-2021-latest-total/

    All the more reason for compulsory sexism training in schools. No way should murderers get away with just killing people of one sex.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe ReformUK need to think of a new name, one that actually makes them sound like the populist party they are. The word "reform" arguably sounds too bland.

    I think it should start with New.
    How about these?

    UK Alternative
    New Citizen
    UK Forward
    UK Advance
    The Civic Rally
    Reform For Freedom
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    As the good book said...




    (Times)

    Because nothing reduces panic better than No 10 urging people not to panic.
    Oh my God. Are they really saying that? That’s just a day away from saying: abandon the cities!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    edited September 2021
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe ReformUK need to think of a new name, one that actually makes them sound like the populist party they are. The word "reform" arguably sounds too bland.

    I think it should start with New.
    How about these?

    UK Alternative
    New Citizen
    UK Forward
    UK Advance
    The Civic Rally
    Reform For Freedom
    Vox (Not Vax!) Pop
    Proud Blokes
    True British Voice
    Britain Unwoke!
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe ReformUK need to think of a new name, one that actually makes them sound like the populist party they are. The word "reform" arguably sounds too bland.

    I think it should start with New.
    How about these?

    UK Alternative
    New Citizen
    UK Forward
    UK Advance
    The Civic Rally
    Reform For Freedom
    Vox (Not Vax!) Pop
    Proud Blokes
    True British Voice
    Britain Unwoke!
    The John Bull Party
  • I don't count myelf as a great reader of the tea leaves, but I'm pretty sure the Tories would rip both of your arms off now of you offered Anglea R as their opponent at the next election.
This discussion has been closed.