Was the CONHome members’ survey the driver of the re-shuffle? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
-
So do you think they'll be putting a 12.5% tax on anything with the Gaidhlig in it, and 25% for the Irish?Theuniondivvie said:
Apparently it's good that we're copying the French now.Nigelb said:
And to think PB Tories used to mock the French for this kind of crap...Theuniondivvie said:Flabby, late middle age Unionism in UJ shorts and shouting at everyone after the 6th pint of Stella Unionism rather than the muscular variety. Anyone care to set out some guidelines for 'Britishness' programme making? 'The Great British' prefixed to every title, Neil Oliver back on the Beeb?
NickFlag of United Kingdom
@nicktolhurst
+UPDATE+
UK govt to enshrine in OfCom regulations a legal obligation for national broadcasters to make “Britishness” a compulsory feature of TV.
All programs produced by the BBC & other domestic channels must be shown to be British & not “too international” or “generic”.0 -
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.1 -
No it's not on that scroll back and find that that has been my position whenever it comes up.Cookie said:
No need to apologise - I don't think a line has been crossed (though we're waving at it). As long as your campaign for repatriation isn't based solely on hotness. I don't think that would wash.TOPPING said:
Yeah it's true. PB creepy maleness at its worst.Cookie said:
Topping, she's a 23 year old girl. You're (I think?) a middle aged man. OF COURSE she's quite hot. That's how human biology works. We're programmed to find that sort of thing attractive.TOPPING said:
Morris she's got a Sophia Loren El Cid vibe going.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Topping, you think she's attractive?
Stay cool. Don't lose your head over her.
She's also being very well advised.
Soz.
But one can't ignore what's in front of you.
But also I accept @Heathener's point so we will focus on the international/national justice element of her case from now on.0 -
Put her on trial in this country. She's not Syria's problem. She's certainly not Bangladesh's problem. If the case against her is as robust as you claim I have no doubt she will receive a lengthy prison sentence, and hopefully afterwards can be rehabilitated as a useful member of society.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.4 -
With respect that is deflectionBenpointer said:
As I said last night, if it was that important why did Boris decide to do a reshuffle the same day?Big_G_NorthWales said:
This was a live statement by the President of the US, and Prime Ministers of UK and Australia and notified to the media worldwide.Benpointer said:
Big_G can I just point out that the BBC did cover this last night, and they continue to have it as their lead story on the website.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremonyMaxPB said:I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).
The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.
I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.
I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself
And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
Are you also upset at all the newspaper front pages who, like the BBC, chose to lead last night with the cabinet reshuffle?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58578976
PS "our remainer colleagues"... Didn't you vote Remain?
Sky covered it live and have been heavily featuring it but the BBC coverage has been poor
The front pages are very different as they were going to press during the announcement but broadcast media are able to be far more flexible and do 'breaking news' all the time
This announcement has understandably upset EU supporters and those on the left as it has profound implications
It was timed so that each statement would be seen in each country 10pm here, 5pm US and 7am Australia
Boris was quite able to do his reshuffle without interfering with his 10pm broadcast0 -
Seriously, though, I wonder how Eòrpa on BBC Alba would fare in the new regime - esp as it has almost always been fascinating, not least in its serendipity.Theuniondivvie said:
Apparently it's good that we're copying the French now.Nigelb said:
And to think PB Tories used to mock the French for this kind of crap...Theuniondivvie said:Flabby, late middle age Unionism in UJ shorts and shouting at everyone after the 6th pint of Stella Unionism rather than the muscular variety. Anyone care to set out some guidelines for 'Britishness' programme making? 'The Great British' prefixed to every title, Neil Oliver back on the Beeb?
NickFlag of United Kingdom
@nicktolhurst
+UPDATE+
UK govt to enshrine in OfCom regulations a legal obligation for national broadcasters to make “Britishness” a compulsory feature of TV.
All programs produced by the BBC & other domestic channels must be shown to be British & not “too international” or “generic”.0 -
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.0 -
I thought the old joke was that any ship gets to play submarine. Once.Carnyx said:
That's a bit unfair - Valentine DDs worked fairly well most of the time. Much better track record than many early submarines.Charles said:
Valentine tanks surely win the prize for the first submersibles that can’t surface?JosiasJessop said:
When we got rid of the Upholder (*) class (as DuraAce mentions above), we went all-nuclear on our boats. Most countries cannot be bothered with nukes, and want diesel-electric instead. We couldn't offer them that. The French could not either; but offered to redesign their latest nuke attack sub to be diesel powered.rcs1000 said:
I know we build our own submarines, but have we made any sales to other countries? France's defence industry exists because countries want Western technology, but don't want to be dependent on the US.CarlottaVance said:Interesting that the French fulmination over the subs deal makes no mention of the UK. Is that 1) a snub because they don’t want to credit us with anything on the global stage or 2) a recognition that in Europe the UK is the only other serious military power in town and that’s a bridge not worth burning?
The Spanish S-80 class is probably not in the running due to the (ahem) interesting problems they've had with it. Like making it the first submarine that could sink but not surface again. So they lengthened it to add buoyancy, which added a whole host of other issues ...
It's interesting that Oz never really considered the UK for their Collins replacements because of their nuke power - despite their requirements being perfect for nuclear power, given the area they have to patrol.
(*) For train fans, these use the Paxman Valenta engines that originally powered the HST.
The Valentine DDs were a valuable experiment/test bed/training tool for the Sherman conversions.0 -
AIUI, quite a few of the Hitler Youth who actually grew up lived respectable adult lives.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.0 -
Right enough she is almost Sophia's double. I am off to Specsavers this morning, struggling to find my white stick though.TOPPING said:
Come on Malcolm surely you can see it also.malcolmg said:
Seek immediate medical help. The big white van with square wheels will be round for you shortly.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-sophia-loren-el-cid-1961-directed-by-anthony-mann-89001002.html0 -
I'm rather more convinced Jamie Bulger's killers are repentant than Shamima Begum.isam said:
You’re comfortable with saying it, fair enough.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
Though what do I know - any impression I get is heavily filtered by presentation and editors.
Rationally, Topping, I'm with you - I'm not entirely comfortable with exile as a means of punishment. (The vikings did it, but the vikings did a lot of things I'm not entirely comfortable with.) But emotionally I'm with Philip Thompson.0 -
Careful, you don't want to go on the record in a "HYUFD Unbellyfeel Brexit" way.HYUFD said:
We cannot ignore France however, they are the strongest European military power alongside us within NATO in terms of containing Putin's Russia. They have also played a key role with us in Africa in taking on jihadis.Benpointer said:
I have no issue with that. EU membership for me was about the single market, common standards, freedom of movement, shared values. Defence cooperation was and is NATO, and now depending on how it develops AUKUS.MaxPB said:
It's not an argument so much as it is the reality of "Brexit means Brexit" as the EU kept telling us over "cherry picking" and such. It was always going to cut both ways but loads of remainers and the EU in general had blinded themselves to the reality of downside risks to the EU of Brexit. Not being in the room was pointed out as a huge downside risk to them of leaving, they brushed it off and acted as though the same level of security cooperation would exist. I remember having discussions with people on here about it and the general remain/EU assumption was that the UK would continue to play a full part in the defence of the EU, it was very obviously not going to happen that way.IshmaelZ said:
I have no dog in the fight, but why do Leavers think that Look, Brexit fucked up the EU, is a banker of an argument?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremonyMaxPB said:I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).
The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.
I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.
I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself
And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
Now everyone needs to live within that new reality. The UK brought the EU with it when we were members, now we won't.
The French will be seething but these things happen. They will have to suck it up (but will no doubt also look for ways to get their own back).
Yes we can share technologies and enable Australia to have nuclear submarines but at the end of the day it is regional powers in the Far East and Oceania ie not only Australia but Japan and South Korea and maybe India who need to take the lead on containing Xi's China under US leadership. We can provide support but we remain a power in Europe and the Atlantic mainly, since the end of the British Empire we are not a global superpower and since the Hong Kong handover there has been no danger of China threatening British territory directly
Yes, it's a deal, and stiffing the French is never to be sniffed at, but is it that big a deal? And had it happened in, say, 2011, would it have looked that different?0 -
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -170 -
So we don't have legal rights if there are military and terrorism considerations?Pulpstar said:Surely decisions on Begum have to be guided by counter terrorist & military intelligence ?
0 -
Venables has added convicted nonce to his charge sheet. Have heard when he gets out. One problem with anonymity is that it must be devastating when romantic partners (Who, and lets be honest if they're dating these sorts of men may well have severe issues themselves) find out or their kids find out or don't find out.OldKingCole said:
One of Jamie B's killers still appears to be a very disturbed man/nasty piece of work.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
The other has vanished into normal society.
Prison is probably the best, and safest place for him (Venables) in particular I think. Thompson seems to have kept anonimity - still if he has kids they may not know who their Dad truly is...0 -
Yesterday, continental Europe (and EU) became a bit more irrelevant in US-China IndoPac competition:
1. China denied a port visit from Germany's frigate 'Bayern'
2. US "stabbed" (in the words of French foreign minister) a French-Oz security partnership
https://twitter.com/remkorteweg/status/1438420980624412673?s=201 -
Some masks on the Tory benches today - including Nad...1
-
... and, more importantly, a monumentally incompetent Chancellor and Prime Minister, many of whose screwups we're still dealing with.malcolmg said:
That is a very low bar and Brown is an absolute sellout traitor, a cretin and one of the worst arseholes to come out of Scotland in many many years.StuartDickson said:
The public archive is jam-packed full of evidence to the contrary. Broon is a spectacular specimen. The amazing thing is that his reputation in the history books will be far more flattering than the Tory duds who followed.Fishing said:
What in Brown's three years as Prime Minister - or since then - gave you a clue that he has any sense of shame or self-awareness?StuartDickson said:
Even he must flinch at his own ridiculousness. Just oozes insincerity.Theuniondivvie said:
Yep, ‘we must look again at the constitution’ was mumbled out with the concomitant absence of any concrete proposals.StuartDickson said:
The Big Broon One. The gift that keeps on giving.Theuniondivvie said:Groundgord Day on R4.
Broony: I know what Scots really want, and it’s not BJ & his muscular Unionism and it’s not the Scottish nationalists.
It’s Labour isn’t it!
Don’t tell me, he also relaunched “federalism” for the ten thousand five hundred and twenty second time?1 -
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
2 -
We do, I'd place national security at the top of the pile in terms of consideration though. The spooks might not think she's a threat, or they may do. I'm not qualified to say, and it's not going to be public knowledge.noneoftheabove said:
So we don't have legal rights if there are military and terrorism considerations?Pulpstar said:Surely decisions on Begum have to be guided by counter terrorist & military intelligence ?
I think the courts have a very high regard for this sort of thing judging by the decision to back the Home office, which surprised me slightly.0 -
It is one of their key weaknesses. Like Johnson, they desperately want to be loved.malcolmg said:
They are so needyStuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/0 -
Didn't one of them become Pope? I will leave it to others to judge whether that can be considered respectable.OldKingCole said:
AIUI, quite a few of the Hitler Youth who actually grew up lived respectable adult lives.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.0 -
They were indeed. There's a very nice local history book about the training area in IIRC East Anglia - CHariots of the Lake. And some of the sinkings there would have been operator inexperience.Malmesbury said:
I thought the old joke was that any ship gets to play submarine. Once.Carnyx said:
That's a bit unfair - Valentine DDs worked fairly well most of the time. Much better track record than many early submarines.Charles said:
Valentine tanks surely win the prize for the first submersibles that can’t surface?JosiasJessop said:
When we got rid of the Upholder (*) class (as DuraAce mentions above), we went all-nuclear on our boats. Most countries cannot be bothered with nukes, and want diesel-electric instead. We couldn't offer them that. The French could not either; but offered to redesign their latest nuke attack sub to be diesel powered.rcs1000 said:
I know we build our own submarines, but have we made any sales to other countries? France's defence industry exists because countries want Western technology, but don't want to be dependent on the US.CarlottaVance said:Interesting that the French fulmination over the subs deal makes no mention of the UK. Is that 1) a snub because they don’t want to credit us with anything on the global stage or 2) a recognition that in Europe the UK is the only other serious military power in town and that’s a bridge not worth burning?
The Spanish S-80 class is probably not in the running due to the (ahem) interesting problems they've had with it. Like making it the first submarine that could sink but not surface again. So they lengthened it to add buoyancy, which added a whole host of other issues ...
It's interesting that Oz never really considered the UK for their Collins replacements because of their nuke power - despite their requirements being perfect for nuclear power, given the area they have to patrol.
(*) For train fans, these use the Paxman Valenta engines that originally powered the HST.
The Valentine DDs were a valuable experiment/test bed/training tool for the Sherman conversions.
I also came across this recently -
http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/34940/1/The Maritime Archaeology of Duplex Drive Tanks.pdf
But the DD tanks were effectively disposable anyway - the Valentines for training and the Shermans for the single assault (although also used later elsewhere). Proper maritine submarines aren't suposed to be so disposable - no wonder the Canadians were so cheesed off with the Upholders.0 -
Which of course is understandable. She is or consorted with "the enemy". And for the likes of our keyboard warriors this is the first and last word on the matter. It is also easy to take an immediate and strident position.Cookie said:
I'm rather more convinced Jamie Bulger's killers are repentant than Shamima Begum.isam said:
You’re comfortable with saying it, fair enough.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
Though what do I know - any impression I get is heavily filtered by presentation and editors.
Rationally, Topping, I'm with you - I'm not entirely comfortable with exile as a means of punishment. (The vikings did it, but the vikings did a lot of things I'm not entirely comfortable with.) But emotionally I'm with Philip Thompson.
Reality, however, is almost always more complicated. As it is I believe on this occasion.1 -
Yet still less incompetent than Cameron, May and Johnson. Must smart.Fishing said:
... and, more importantly, a monumentally incompetent Chancellor and Prime Minister, many of whose screwups we're still dealing with.malcolmg said:
That is a very low bar and Brown is an absolute sellout traitor, a cretin and one of the worst arseholes to come out of Scotland in many many years.StuartDickson said:
The public archive is jam-packed full of evidence to the contrary. Broon is a spectacular specimen. The amazing thing is that his reputation in the history books will be far more flattering than the Tory duds who followed.Fishing said:
What in Brown's three years as Prime Minister - or since then - gave you a clue that he has any sense of shame or self-awareness?StuartDickson said:
Even he must flinch at his own ridiculousness. Just oozes insincerity.Theuniondivvie said:
Yep, ‘we must look again at the constitution’ was mumbled out with the concomitant absence of any concrete proposals.StuartDickson said:
The Big Broon One. The gift that keeps on giving.Theuniondivvie said:Groundgord Day on R4.
Broony: I know what Scots really want, and it’s not BJ & his muscular Unionism and it’s not the Scottish nationalists.
It’s Labour isn’t it!
Don’t tell me, he also relaunched “federalism” for the ten thousand five hundred and twenty second time?0 -
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
It was also compulsory, I believe, to join the Hitler Youth. So there is an issue of volition there.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Didn't one of them become Pope? I will leave it to others to judge whether that can be considered respectable.OldKingCole said:
AIUI, quite a few of the Hitler Youth who actually grew up lived respectable adult lives.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.
You could be let off on racial grounds if applicable, but tthen you had other problems of course.0 -
There has been nothing, nothing that would cause any issues. Discussion of relative attractiveness of an ex-Brit, now stateless woman? Seriously - you are wetting the bed over nothing.rottenborough said:
The discussion of the IS woman has moved sufficiently away from the rights or wrongs of the case and the politics to the point that I think Mike and TSE could get into trouble as they run the site.Casino_Royale said:
Why?rottenborough said:Can't believe the discussion on here this morning.
Time for the ban hammer to start quivering?
Maybe I am being too bed wetty after a poor night's sleep - just my opinion.
More worrying will be when PB is shut down for inadvertantly posting the truth aboutUFOsUAPs...0 -
It wasn't, however, compulsory for British children to become members of the HY. That's the analogy here.Carnyx said:
It was also compulsory, I believe, to join the Hitler Youth. So there is an issue of volition there.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Didn't one of them become Pope? I will leave it to others to judge whether that can be considered respectable.OldKingCole said:
AIUI, quite a few of the Hitler Youth who actually grew up lived respectable adult lives.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.
You could be let off on racial grounds if applicable, but tthen you had other problems of course.0 -
Absolutely, and some might be.another_richard said:
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
Here's a link in return for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz0 -
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
Chatham House Director:
Shell shocked in Paris, I’m sure. Stab in the back? No. A hard-headed decision to ensure Australian submarine capacity is truly capable of confronting/ deterring the ever-growing Chinese naval presence across the Pacific. And connects Aus more deeply w its 2 principal allies
https://twitter.com/RobinNiblett/status/1438424400735490049?s=203 -
There leads a kafka-esque authoritarian state. If the government can simply remove rights because they have info neither the courts, nor the citizens are allowed to see then we don't really have those rights. If she really is an ongoing threat I fail to see why she can't be convicted and serve a very long time in a secure prison. I think she should be convicted and serve a fairly long time regardless of ongoing threat.Pulpstar said:
We do, I'd place national security at the top of the pile in terms of consideration though. The spooks might not think she's a threat, or they may do. I'm not qualified to say, and it's not going to be public knowledge.noneoftheabove said:
So we don't have legal rights if there are military and terrorism considerations?Pulpstar said:Surely decisions on Begum have to be guided by counter terrorist & military intelligence ?
I think the courts have a very high regard for this sort of thing judging by the decision to back the Home office, which surprised me slightly.2 -
No tenner for you, I'm not sparticus.Heathener said:
You are both Sean Thomas and I claim my £10.turbotubbs said:
Damn - I was going to post that last night, but pulled out at the last minute... Seems to have lost weight.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
This forum really does come across as an old man's white club sometimes. Sorry but true. Don't take offence, it's just my impression and why I often keep off. It's not a place where a more gentle minded female feels particularly welcome.0 -
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -172 -
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
First thing you’ve got right today!TOPPING said:
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
And OAPs and their low taxes and high benefits!turbotubbs said:
There has been nothing, nothing that would cause any issues. Discussion of relative attractiveness of an ex-Brit, now stateless woman? Seriously - you are wetting the bed over nothing.rottenborough said:
The discussion of the IS woman has moved sufficiently away from the rights or wrongs of the case and the politics to the point that I think Mike and TSE could get into trouble as they run the site.Casino_Royale said:
Why?rottenborough said:Can't believe the discussion on here this morning.
Time for the ban hammer to start quivering?
Maybe I am being too bed wetty after a poor night's sleep - just my opinion.
More worrying will be when PB is shut down for inadvertantly posting the truth aboutUFOsUAPs...0 -
Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.2
-
But where is she alleged to have committed these terrible crimes? I thought it was on some foreign soil.Malmesbury said:
I'm in favour of letting her into the country. Provided she goes on trial, immediately, for the war crimes she committed.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I've been saying this for years, based on the view that British people should face British justice not simply have all their rights as British citizens waived at the whim of politicians on the make and "intelligence" from the people who thought that Saddam had WMD. You know, due process, the rule of law, things this country used to be famous for. Her looks shouldn't come into it.TOPPING said:The PB let her back in campaign starts here.
Who's with me? Casino, Sandpit, PT for sure.
Morris I'll put you down as undecided.
We have some real momentum here.
Prince Andrew is alleged to have committed a crime on a foreign soil, and some people are arguing that he should face up the his accuser there - even though he is not accused of having done anything which would be against the law in this country.
I feel that we have some inconsistency on display.
Or are we saying that any British citizen who breaks the law of and in a foreign country, should be repatriated here so that we can try them? Even though that is not a law that we ourselves abide by?2 -
On at least half the current polls England will get Starmer as PM thanks to support from SNP MPs in a UK hung parliament despite the fact England will give Boris another Tory majority.StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
So I would stop whinging if I were you, this time it may well be England that does not get what it voted for! However we are all one Union so if so fair enough0 -
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
1 -
Yep, Eorpa is one of most consistently interesting programmes on Alba (or BBC Scotlandish in general for that matter).Carnyx said:
Seriously, though, I wonder how Eòrpa on BBC Alba would fare in the new regime - esp as it has almost always been fascinating, not least in its serendipity.Theuniondivvie said:
Apparently it's good that we're copying the French now.Nigelb said:
And to think PB Tories used to mock the French for this kind of crap...Theuniondivvie said:Flabby, late middle age Unionism in UJ shorts and shouting at everyone after the 6th pint of Stella Unionism rather than the muscular variety. Anyone care to set out some guidelines for 'Britishness' programme making? 'The Great British' prefixed to every title, Neil Oliver back on the Beeb?
NickFlag of United Kingdom
@nicktolhurst
+UPDATE+
UK govt to enshrine in OfCom regulations a legal obligation for national broadcasters to make “Britishness” a compulsory feature of TV.
All programs produced by the BBC & other domestic channels must be shown to be British & not “too international” or “generic”.
I imagine there would be some sort of Gaelic IS British fudging, though the disconnect between that and the more muscular Unionists on social media screeching about promoting a 'dead' language would be as stark as ever.0 -
Very similar COVID antibody rates between England & Scotland, despite higher cases in latter - hopefully the downward trends in infections in both will continue:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/16september20210 -
"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html0 -
No. Shagging 17 y.o.s is legal here, blowing people up is not.ClippP said:
But where is she alleged to have committed these terrible crimes? I thought it was on some foreign soil.Malmesbury said:
I'm in favour of letting her into the country. Provided she goes on trial, immediately, for the war crimes she committed.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I've been saying this for years, based on the view that British people should face British justice not simply have all their rights as British citizens waived at the whim of politicians on the make and "intelligence" from the people who thought that Saddam had WMD. You know, due process, the rule of law, things this country used to be famous for. Her looks shouldn't come into it.TOPPING said:The PB let her back in campaign starts here.
Who's with me? Casino, Sandpit, PT for sure.
Morris I'll put you down as undecided.
We have some real momentum here.
Prince Andrew is alleged to have committed a crime on a foreign soil, and some people are arguing that he should face up the his accuser there - even though he is not accused of having done anything which would be against the law in this country.
I feel that we have some inconsistency on display.
Or are we saying that any British citizen who breaks the law of and in a foreign country, should be repatriated here so that we can try them? Even though that is not a law that we ourselves abide by?0 -
That’s awesome. Going to be difficult for the virus to survive once everyone has antibodies.CarlottaVance said:Very similar COVID antibody rates between England & Scotland, despite higher cases in latter - hopefully the downward trends in infections in both will continue:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/16september20210 -
The clues in the names - "Unionists" prefer cooperation, "Nationalists" division - by pretending there are differences in attitudes where none exist...Farooq said:
Why don't those attitudes translate into votes? It's been a long time since Scotland voted Conservative but England usually does. Same with Wales, been Labour as long as I can remember.CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
There's a really odd divide growing between unionists and nationalists in that unionists seem quite keen on emphasising polls over votes. I believe that attitude is a mistake.0 -
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html3 -
And you think the cases are comparable ?TOPPING said:
Absolutely, and some might be.another_richard said:
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
Here's a link in return for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz
Was Majid Nawaz an active terrorist or still cheerleading for ISIS in 2019 ?0 -
In 2011 though of course it was Cameron and Sarkozy leading on taking action in Libya to stop a Gaddaffi bloodbath.Stuartinromford said:
Careful, you don't want to go on the record in a "HYUFD Unbellyfeel Brexit" way.HYUFD said:
We cannot ignore France however, they are the strongest European military power alongside us within NATO in terms of containing Putin's Russia. They have also played a key role with us in Africa in taking on jihadis.Benpointer said:
I have no issue with that. EU membership for me was about the single market, common standards, freedom of movement, shared values. Defence cooperation was and is NATO, and now depending on how it develops AUKUS.MaxPB said:
It's not an argument so much as it is the reality of "Brexit means Brexit" as the EU kept telling us over "cherry picking" and such. It was always going to cut both ways but loads of remainers and the EU in general had blinded themselves to the reality of downside risks to the EU of Brexit. Not being in the room was pointed out as a huge downside risk to them of leaving, they brushed it off and acted as though the same level of security cooperation would exist. I remember having discussions with people on here about it and the general remain/EU assumption was that the UK would continue to play a full part in the defence of the EU, it was very obviously not going to happen that way.IshmaelZ said:
I have no dog in the fight, but why do Leavers think that Look, Brexit fucked up the EU, is a banker of an argument?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremonyMaxPB said:I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).
The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.
I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.
I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself
And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
Now everyone needs to live within that new reality. The UK brought the EU with it when we were members, now we won't.
The French will be seething but these things happen. They will have to suck it up (but will no doubt also look for ways to get their own back).
Yes we can share technologies and enable Australia to have nuclear submarines but at the end of the day it is regional powers in the Far East and Oceania ie not only Australia but Japan and South Korea and maybe India who need to take the lead on containing Xi's China under US leadership. We can provide support but we remain a power in Europe and the Atlantic mainly, since the end of the British Empire we are not a global superpower and since the Hong Kong handover there has been no danger of China threatening British territory directly
Yes, it's a deal, and stiffing the French is never to be sniffed at, but is it that big a deal? And had it happened in, say, 2011, would it have looked that different?
The fact is even post Brexit the EU is our largest trading destination for UK exports and France our closest military partner in maintaining security in Europe and Africa, yes we can be global Britain too but that does not mean forgetting our own backyard1 -
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
1 -
The day hasn't dawned when you are able to assess what's right or wrong.isam said:
First thing you’ve got right today!TOPPING said:
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.0 -
Sadiq Khan at media drinks reception: “It’s good to see Dominic Raab finally brought to Justice”.
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1438208748686819332?s=204 -
You don't think attitudes bleed into politics?CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
In that case what is the reason for the politics of one part of the Union being driven for decades by anti immigration, anti EU rightwingers and it's population voting for that/them, and another part of the Union very much not voting for that/them? Are politics and political parties essentially irrelevant to the population at large?0 -
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
0 -
Nawaz has gone off the stolen election/antivax deep end recently. Clearly something in him simply very receptive to extremist messaginganother_richard said:
And you think the cases are comparable ?TOPPING said:
Absolutely, and some might be.another_richard said:
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
Here's a link in return for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz
Was Majid Nawaz an active terrorist or still cheerleading for ISIS in 2019 ?0 -
Alternatively, we should encourage people to work from home where possible, so they travel less and pollute less.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html
WFH three days a week, and save 60% of your commute’s carbon emissions.2 -
Is Boris making a statement about AUUKUS in the House today? If so, Sir Keir should go with the following questions.
Does this new alliance require us to provide specific military capabilities? If so will they require additional funding.
Will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops under the new alliance and if so under what circumstances?
Intelligence is to be shared. What intelligence is to be shared with whom. Are there any restrictions on what intelligence we must share and who decides this?
Technology is to be shared. Ditto.
Will this new alliance require the permanent stationing of British armed forces in the Indo-Pacific region?2 -
OK stuff to do and I think I've made my point but they were both members in some shape or form of proscribed or terrorist organisations. One has repented the other says they have repented. Sounds pretty comparable to me. So far.another_richard said:
And you think the cases are comparable ?TOPPING said:
Absolutely, and some might be.another_richard said:
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
Here's a link in return for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz
Was Majid Nawaz an active terrorist or still cheerleading for ISIS in 2019 ?0 -
Was expecting it to say "Villagers 'should rely on torches to combat increase in witchcraft' ".Pulpstar said:
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html0 -
Does he still want to charge people for parking at a supermarket ?Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html0 -
One of them even received the Nobel Prize for Literature.OldKingCole said:
AIUI, quite a few of the Hitler Youth who actually grew up lived respectable adult lives.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Boy, she joined a cabal of genocidal, child-crucifying, prisoner-burning religious zealots when it was fully known what they did.
She wasn't groomed by some unknown stranger acting kindly at first then turning coercive. You don't get 'groomed' to join the Nazis in 1946 and then claim to have no idea they were bad guys.0 -
Surely the most important question is could no-one think of a better acronym than AUUKUS? Because if they can't I doubt they can save us anyway.Stark_Dawning said:Is Boris making a statement about AUUKUS in the House today? If so, Sir Keir should go with the following questions.
Does this new alliance require us to provide specific military capabilities? If so will they require additional funding.
Will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops under the new alliance and if so under what circumstances?
Intelligence is to be shared. What intelligence is to be shared with whom. Are there any restrictions on what intelligence we must share and who decides this?
Technology is to be shared. Ditto.
Will this new alliance require the permanent stationing of British armed forces in the Indo-Pacific region?0 -
You think people vote SNP because they believe their guff about Scotland being morally superior with more enlightened attitudes than England and on the inevitable path to independence?Theuniondivvie said:
You don't think attitudes bleed into politics?CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
In that case what is the reason for the politics of one part of the Union being driven for decades by anti immigration, anti EU rightwingers and it's population voting for that/them, and another part of the Union very much not voting for that/them? Are politics and political parties essentially irrelevant to the population at large?
Or because they think they'll do a better job of screwing money out of Westminster for Scotland?0 -
Light pollution maps are fascinating and a bit terrifying.Pulpstar said:
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=7.22&lat=55.7298&lon=-3.3327&layers=B0FFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFF2 -
Well it costs the supermarket good money to look after the horses.another_richard said:
Does he still want to charge people for parking at a supermarket ?Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html2 -
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
2 -
To be fair, if I were the USA, I’d look at Europe and determine it was - and will continue - to be unable to develop a coherent foreign policy and defence structure.1
-
I wouldn't have given it to Fergusson either....
MINISTERS have been urged to intervene after nationalised Ferguson Marine failed at the first hurdle to win a £100m contract to create two new lifeline vessels to serve Islay.
Scottish Government-controlled Caledonian Maritime Assets Limited (CMAL), which owns the nation's ageing ferry fleet, invited four overseas companies to bid for the contract to build the two vessels.0 -
To retain citizenship. And not have it removed by a lie, even if that lie is backed by the state. She simply is not and has never been Bangladeshi. If she were, then the decision would be fine. We have exported a terrorist to another country, we should do our bit, try her and lock her up, not waive our hands of responsibility.MaxPB said:
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
1 -
Her activities were at least a magnitude higher than his.TOPPING said:
OK stuff to do and I think I've made my point but they were both members in some shape or form of proscribed or terrorist organisations. One has repented the other says they have repented. Sounds pretty comparable to me. So far.another_richard said:
And you think the cases are comparable ?TOPPING said:
Absolutely, and some might be.another_richard said:
That people with high profile links to terrorists might become terrorists themselves.TOPPING said:
Which proves what exactly?another_richard said:
Wife of one of the 7/7 bombers:TOPPING said:
Because she is a Brit. And do you think any right-minded terrorist is going to associate with arguably the most high profile ex-ISIS bride on the planet?Sandpit said:
Teenage rebellion is dying your hair purple or getting a small tattoo. Moving to a terrorist war zone and wanting to kill the evil westerners is a slightly different level.TOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Why would it be in the UK’s interest to let a Trojan Horse back into the country?
She will be mobbed going to Tescos to stare at the empty shelves. In fact her life would be very difficult which means perhaps she should go somewhere else.
And she was a child at the time. There are rehabilitation programmes for eg. child soldiers who perpetrated some horrific acts. So why not an ex-ISIS child bride?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite
Claimed to be appalled and to know nothing about it.
Now wanted for 400+ murders in Kenya.
And that they might not be telling the truth when they claim to oppose terrorism.
Here's a link in return for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz
Was Majid Nawaz an active terrorist or still cheerleading for ISIS in 2019 ?
His repentance was at least a magnitude higher than hers.
If she wants to show how repented and reformed she is then she can start by making good for her activities where she did them - in Syria.
Once she has done that then she can be considered for return to the UK.0 -
Anyway after many hours hospital sent Husband home without really doing anything. Told to come back if still not better.
And it isn't. Obstruction still in throat despite bits of walnut being coughed up. Throat swollen. Did not sleep well. He does not want to eat in case he chokes. Will try some glycerin linctus to see if that helps and avoids us arsing about at A&E for yet more hours.
Such a trivial thing and yet Husband looks as worried and uncomfortable as I've seen him. He kicked up such a fuss about going into hospital when he had Covid but on this went in without demur when NHS 111 person told him to. So think this is more uncomfortable than he is letting on.
If anyone has any bright ideas pass them on.
0 -
Reminder to Lord Deben that street lighting exists to deter crime. Criminals are less likely to burgle and the like in well-lit areas.
You cut the street lights then crime will rise.0 -
Do you also think "Why should murderers get a fair trial? Their victims never got a fair trial, did they?"MaxPB said:
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
0 -
I don't agree at all, at least as far as Cameron and Johnson were concerned.StuartDickson said:
Yet still less incompetent than Cameron, May and Johnson. Must smart.Fishing said:
... and, more importantly, a monumentally incompetent Chancellor and Prime Minister, many of whose screwups we're still dealing with.malcolmg said:
That is a very low bar and Brown is an absolute sellout traitor, a cretin and one of the worst arseholes to come out of Scotland in many many years.StuartDickson said:
The public archive is jam-packed full of evidence to the contrary. Broon is a spectacular specimen. The amazing thing is that his reputation in the history books will be far more flattering than the Tory duds who followed.Fishing said:
What in Brown's three years as Prime Minister - or since then - gave you a clue that he has any sense of shame or self-awareness?StuartDickson said:
Even he must flinch at his own ridiculousness. Just oozes insincerity.Theuniondivvie said:
Yep, ‘we must look again at the constitution’ was mumbled out with the concomitant absence of any concrete proposals.StuartDickson said:
The Big Broon One. The gift that keeps on giving.Theuniondivvie said:Groundgord Day on R4.
Broony: I know what Scots really want, and it’s not BJ & his muscular Unionism and it’s not the Scottish nationalists.
It’s Labour isn’t it!
Don’t tell me, he also relaunched “federalism” for the ten thousand five hundred and twenty second time?
I was actually working in central government in 2009-10 and it was a huge breath of fresh air when the stench of Brown's decaying administration was removed. Cameron wasn't perfect, but at least you could get a decision out of him in under six months and he didn't fly off the handle at the most trivial setback.
The comparison with May is more interesting. I'd put their administrations as about equal in terms of results (bottom of the class for many decades). BUT under our system, you can't really expect a government without a working majority to be any good. It will always be in office but not it power. The pecularity of Brown's government is that it was not that it was a continual shitshow, but it was so with a large majority and that's unprecedented since the brief Eden administration. Frankly, Brown's performance in office defies rational explanation.0 -
Ah well, we're narrowing it down at least.CarlottaVance said:
You think people vote SNP because they believe their guff about Scotland being morally superior with more enlightened attitudes than England and on the inevitable path to independence?Theuniondivvie said:
You don't think attitudes bleed into politics?CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
In that case what is the reason for the politics of one part of the Union being driven for decades by anti immigration, anti EU rightwingers and it's population voting for that/them, and another part of the Union very much not voting for that/them? Are politics and political parties essentially irrelevant to the population at large?
Or because they think they'll do a better job of screwing money out of Westminster for Scotland?
Hard heided cynical Jocks vote for a party that's pro EU and immigration but only cos they'll screw the lovely English for more money.
Lovely English vote for an anti EU and immigration party cos they *checks notes* prefer cooperation.
Got it.0 -
Belgium and Holland seem to be the worst areas in the world, a bit surprising.LostPassword said:
Light pollution maps are fascinating and a bit terrifying.Pulpstar said:
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=7.22&lat=55.7298&lon=-3.3327&layers=B0FFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFF0 -
Miss Cyclefree, sorry to hear that (no advice to offer, I'm afraid).1
-
Haha 😛 pomposity for brunch!TOPPING said:
The day hasn't dawned when you are able to assess what's right or wrong.isam said:
First thing you’ve got right today!TOPPING said:
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
If I were 25 years younger, I still wouldn’t fancy ugly 22 year olds who’ve knocked out 3 kids already though2 -
The issue is that she would face no justice in the UK because no UK laws were broken. She would come back, the government would make a big deal out of locking her up for a few months and then ultimately it would transpire she didn't commit any acts of terrorism in the UK and the UK doesn't have jurisdiction to try her for crimes committed in Syria. The UK doesn't have any real treason offences that we could try either as Labour got rid of most of them.noneoftheabove said:
To retain citizenship. And not have it removed by a lie, even if that lie is backed by the state. She simply is not and has never been Bangladeshi. If she were, then the decision would be fine. We have exported a terrorist to another country, we should do our bit, try her and lock her up, not waive our hands of responsibility.MaxPB said:
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
Legally disowning her is the best consequence we had in the toolbox. Her inability to come to the UK is all we could really hope for, or the Syrians find her and stick her in jail forever.3 -
I have a little on Liz Truss @ 10/1 for next Conservative leader. She's 7/1 on Ladbrokes right now, with Gove at 6/1 and Sunak on 9/4. I think Gove has way less chance that that, and Truss is still good value.1
-
Stay classy, Sam.isam said:
Haha 😛 pomposity for brunch!TOPPING said:
The day hasn't dawned when you are able to assess what's right or wrong.isam said:
First thing you’ve got right today!TOPPING said:
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
If I were 25 years younger, I still wouldn’t fancy ugly 22 year olds who’ve knocked out 3 kids already though0 -
England: (Same in Scotland about a point lower in Wales/NI)
Almost 90% antibody seroprevalence in 16-24 year olds now.
Will make a sig difference with universities going back compared to last year, where it was less than 20%.
https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1438434031939510277?s=200 -
There is an interesting parallel in the United States. Whites and non-whites (especially blacks) have vaguely similar attitudes in terms of whether they identify as liberal, moderate or conservative, but completely different voting patterns. Far fewer black conservatives vote Republican than white conservatives, though there is some evidence that this trend started to unwind in 2020.CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -170 -
We convicted parents on a terrorism charge for sending £223 to their ISIS son. I would be amazed if we couldnt find a law she has broken, given she has admitted some of it.MaxPB said:
The issue is that she would face no justice in the UK because no UK laws were broken. She would come back, the government would make a big deal out of locking her up for a few months and then ultimately it would transpire she didn't commit any acts of terrorism in the UK and the UK doesn't have jurisdiction to try her for crimes committed in Syria. The UK doesn't have any real treason offences that we could try either as Labour got rid of most of them.noneoftheabove said:
To retain citizenship. And not have it removed by a lie, even if that lie is backed by the state. She simply is not and has never been Bangladeshi. If she were, then the decision would be fine. We have exported a terrorist to another country, we should do our bit, try her and lock her up, not waive our hands of responsibility.MaxPB said:
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
Legally disowning her is the best consequence we had in the toolbox. Her inability to come to the UK is all we could really hope for, or the Syrians find her and stick her in jail forever.0 -
Fascinating.LostPassword said:
Light pollution maps are fascinating and a bit terrifying.Pulpstar said:
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=7.22&lat=55.7298&lon=-3.3327&layers=B0FFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFF
I have never lived anywhere which isn't pink on that map.
I often wonder whether there is a simple solution to this. If you've ever flown over Britain at night, its striking how so much from street lights goes upwards. I wonder whether a simple curved mirror - a foot or two wide - over the top of the street light would focus much more downwards, allowing us to use lower wattages.
I have no expertise in this or any reason to think I should be better at designing a street light than a street light designer. But still.
(Once that gets off the ground, I'll develop my idea for reducing wear and tear on aircraft tyres.)0 -
This vitriol directed at Brown by our friendly neighbourhood ScotNats is noteworthy. I hold no brief for him at all but suspect that he is held in a reasonably high regard by many Scots. As is the Labour Party. There is simply not the visceral dislike for the party that there is for the Tories . Ultimately, however far off it may be, the revival of Scottish Labour remains an existential threat to Indy. Their time may come...StuartDickson said:
Yet still less incompetent than Cameron, May and Johnson. Must smart.Fishing said:
... and, more importantly, a monumentally incompetent Chancellor and Prime Minister, many of whose screwups we're still dealing with.malcolmg said:
That is a very low bar and Brown is an absolute sellout traitor, a cretin and one of the worst arseholes to come out of Scotland in many many years.StuartDickson said:
The public archive is jam-packed full of evidence to the contrary. Broon is a spectacular specimen. The amazing thing is that his reputation in the history books will be far more flattering than the Tory duds who followed.Fishing said:
What in Brown's three years as Prime Minister - or since then - gave you a clue that he has any sense of shame or self-awareness?StuartDickson said:
Even he must flinch at his own ridiculousness. Just oozes insincerity.Theuniondivvie said:
Yep, ‘we must look again at the constitution’ was mumbled out with the concomitant absence of any concrete proposals.StuartDickson said:
The Big Broon One. The gift that keeps on giving.Theuniondivvie said:Groundgord Day on R4.
Broony: I know what Scots really want, and it’s not BJ & his muscular Unionism and it’s not the Scottish nationalists.
It’s Labour isn’t it!
Don’t tell me, he also relaunched “federalism” for the ten thousand five hundred and twenty second time?0 -
But you're a ferocious British Nationalist anyway, so that is meaningless.CarlottaVance said:
The clues in the names - "Unionists" prefer cooperation, "Nationalists" division - by pretending there are differences in attitudes where none exist...Farooq said:
Why don't those attitudes translate into votes? It's been a long time since Scotland voted Conservative but England usually does. Same with Wales, been Labour as long as I can remember.CarlottaVance said:
Duh. Someone who can't tell the difference between voting intentions and attitudes - which Nationalists keep insisting are different when they are in fact virtually identical....if anything, England a little more tolerant.....StuartDickson said:
England and Scotland are identical.CarlottaVance said:
Nationalists can't face the facts. Again. Yawn.StuartDickson said:
Unionists see what they want to see. Again. Yawn.CarlottaVance said:Not as different as some would like you to believe:
In Scotland, England and Wales, people are united in their belief that equality (78%, 76%, 78%), tolerance (83%, 83%, 83%), liberty (86%, 87%,83%), and diversity (82%, 82%, 80%) are important to making them proud of their nation.
The poll also showed that people are across the three nations are largely agreed on controversial social questions around limits on immigration, the nature of British history, and the balance between equality and opportunity in society.
On priorities, people in all three nations said that making the NHS the best healthcare system in the world needed to be the clear top focus for government.
Similarly, people across all the countries of the UK prioritised a dignified retirement for old people, fighting climate change, and making sure every child has the best education as other top priorities.
https://ourscottishfuture.org/poll-shows-uk-wide-shared-priorities-and-values/
Scottish VI
SNP 50%
SCon 29%
SLab 16%
SGP 1%
SLD 1%
oth (presumably Alba) 2%
Boris Johnson net approval
Midlands -4
London -9
South -17
North -18
Wales -23
N Ireland -34
Scotland -46
UK -17
There's a really odd divide growing between unionists and nationalists in that unionists seem quite keen on emphasising polls over votes. I believe that attitude is a mistake.
It's the Scottish National, not Nationalist, Party as you know full well.0 -
(My reasoning - I like the 7/1 for party leader better than the 12/1 for next PM, as there are more, and very plausible, electoral scenarios where she becomes leader but not PM)mwadams said:I have a little on Liz Truss @ 10/1 for next Conservative leader. She's 7/1 on Ladbrokes right now, with Gove at 6/1 and Sunak on 9/4. I think Gove has way less chance that that, and Truss is still good value.
1 -
.
Was none of this information available at the live press conference it was so important for the BBC to have covered ?Stark_Dawning said:Is Boris making a statement about AUUKUS in the House today? If so, Sir Keir should go with the following questions.
Does this new alliance require us to provide specific military capabilities? If so will they require additional funding.
Will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops under the new alliance and if so under what circumstances?
Intelligence is to be shared. What intelligence is to be shared with whom. Are there any restrictions on what intelligence we must share and who decides this?
Technology is to be shared. Ditto.
Will this new alliance require the permanent stationing of British armed forces in the Indo-Pacific region?0 -
She's admitted to committing acts of terrorism in Syria. How does a UK court convict her for that?noneoftheabove said:
We convicted parents on a terrorism charge for sending £223 to their ISIS son. I would be amazed if we couldnt find a law she has broken, given she has admitted some of it.MaxPB said:
The issue is that she would face no justice in the UK because no UK laws were broken. She would come back, the government would make a big deal out of locking her up for a few months and then ultimately it would transpire she didn't commit any acts of terrorism in the UK and the UK doesn't have jurisdiction to try her for crimes committed in Syria. The UK doesn't have any real treason offences that we could try either as Labour got rid of most of them.noneoftheabove said:
To retain citizenship. And not have it removed by a lie, even if that lie is backed by the state. She simply is not and has never been Bangladeshi. If she were, then the decision would be fine. We have exported a terrorist to another country, we should do our bit, try her and lock her up, not waive our hands of responsibility.MaxPB said:
Our right to what? Go and fight for ISIS without facing any consequences? I'm happy to live without that particular right.noneoftheabove said:
It is not about her, it is about our rights as citizens.MaxPB said:
She's not a UK citizen either, the supreme court has said so. Time to move on, she clearly has as we saw in her begging video she referred to the UK continually as "you" rather than "we".noneoftheabove said:
Because her denaturalisation was spurious. She is not Bangladeshi.MaxPB said:Why does anyone care about Shamina Begum, she's not a UK citizen.
Legally disowning her is the best consequence we had in the toolbox. Her inability to come to the UK is all we could really hope for, or the Syrians find her and stick her in jail forever.1 -
Conveyor belt runways, or electric motors that spin up the wheels to 150mph?Cookie said:
Fascinating.LostPassword said:
Light pollution maps are fascinating and a bit terrifying.Pulpstar said:
I think lighting between midnight and 5 should be scaled back everywhere to be honest, light pollution is one of my bugbears.Andy_JS said:"Villagers 'should rely on torches to see at night': Street lighting in rural areas should be scaled back and SUV drivers hit with higher taxes, Government's climate adviser says
Lord Deben called for lighting in rural areas to be scaled back for the climate
He also warned against building hundreds of homes in villages where most workers would have to commute by car - adding to pollution
Lord Deben, who served in the Cabinet as John Gummer, also called for higher taxes on sports utility vehicles to reflect their greater carbon emissions"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9995737/Villagers-rely-torches-night-Governments-climate-adviser-says.html
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=7.22&lat=55.7298&lon=-3.3327&layers=B0FFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFF
I have never lived anywhere which isn't pink on that map.
I often wonder whether there is a simple solution to this. If you've ever flown over Britain at night, its striking how so much from street lights goes upwards. I wonder whether a simple curved mirror - a foot or two wide - over the top of the street light would focus much more downwards, allowing us to use lower wattages.
I have no expertise in this or any reason to think I should be better at designing a street light than a street light designer. But still.
(Once that gets off the ground, I'll develop my idea for reducing wear and tear on aircraft tyres.)0 -
The Truss will surely be the next Tory leader (especially since Boris wrecked Rishi's reputation with NI). She ticks all the right Tory boxes: female and blonde, a boundless commitment to self-promotion, fully signed up to the 'post-Brexit, Britain will rule the world again' mentality. I can't see how she could fail.mwadams said:I have a little on Liz Truss @ 10/1 for next Conservative leader. She's 7/1 on Ladbrokes right now, with Gove at 6/1 and Sunak on 9/4. I think Gove has way less chance that that, and Truss is still good value.
3 -
With UK job vacancies at a record high, some industries are reporting difficulties in recruiting
Hospitality businesses are twice as likely as other industries to be experiencing challenges in filling vacancies (30% compared with 13%)
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1438433361463287809?s=20
No more readily available cheap labour.....
1 -
Don’t be so irked you feel the need into slip into lefty faux friendliness.TOPPING said:
Stay classy, Sam.isam said:
Haha 😛 pomposity for brunch!TOPPING said:
The day hasn't dawned when you are able to assess what's right or wrong.isam said:
First thing you’ve got right today!TOPPING said:
I knew that.isam said:
I’m talking about ever.TOPPING said:
Right.Stocky said:
Isam is talking about before serving their time not after.TOPPING said:
Why not? If they were repentant? Or do we keep certain people in jail for ever? Or do we keep everyone in jail for ever? And who gets to override the courts' decision on the matter.isam said:
She looks like Kamran Akmal in a wigTOPPING said:
She says she regrets what she did as a 15-yr old. While I appreciate most 15yr olds don't express their rebellious nature by travelling to war zones to become a child bride of an fundamentalist terrorist group, but she was a child at the time.Sandpit said:
Just because she got a stylist, and did her hair and make-up, doesn’t mean that she stopped being a terrorist.TOPPING said:OK I'LL SAY IT.
Shamima Begum looks quite hot.
BETTING ANGLE: she'll be on the front cover of Vogue, or another glossy, within six months.
And is seemingly repentant now.
Jamie Bulger’s murderers were children too, it wouldn’t do for them to be on tv asking for a second chance or for people to say how handsome they are now.
If I were 25 years younger, I still wouldn’t fancy ugly 22 year olds who’ve knocked out 3 kids already though
I’m not the one fantasising over 2/10 women a third of my age, mind you0
