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Was the CONHome members’ survey the driver of the re-shuffle? – politicalbetting.com

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We all know the earth is flat right...

    View from Dragon’s cupola
    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1438359359898066944?s=20

    Typical uncorrected wide angle lens effect.
    A hell of an effect to make a straight line into a circle!!
    Yes.

    *Gazes at the perfectly flat horizon and wonders how that remark is meant to support the roundist cause.*
    The horizon is a circle, assuming we ignore mountains etc.
    So you say...
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    If they don't want to get jabbed they can go and work in Scotland:

    The Scottish government has said it has no plans to make vaccinations mandatory after reports today that the UK government is set to announce covid vaccinations are to become compulsory for all staff in care homes for older people in England.

    https://healthandcare.scot/default.asp?page=story&story=2669

    Scotland....Care Homes.....COVID.....what could possibly go wrong?
    Which is a bit bizarre considering they are implementing COVID passports
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,867
    edited September 2021

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Go to a private doc if it speeds things up

    NHS not fit for purpose #94: I went to the GP after I bust my hand up and he said it's a suspected fracture and we'll get you an appointment which should take 4-6 weeks and call if you don't hear anything.

    Went private was seen the following day, it was operated on and pinned three days after that.

    Wouldn't remember which hand it was now, thanks for asking.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    gealbhan said:

    Just listened to Boris's statement on AUUKUS. It seems obvious that we're just talking a weapons-procurement project here. The idea that this is going to replace NATO with a myriad of other nations queuing up to join seems utterly laughable.

    I’m not convinced the rest of five eyes were kept out the loop, more likely asked and declined.

    “Excuse me, we are going to play a geopolitical power game with China, similar to the successful one we played with Russia in Syria. Would you like a bigger Red Cross painted on your country?”

    If this is the right announcement, then it is at least ten years too late.

    It’s looking in the real light of this morning as a bit of a fig leaf, truth is It has been failure to combat China up to now, and continued failure going forward behind this fig leaf announcement. Soft power and economics is where the real fight is. The West isn’t even in the same pond.

    How has Trump attacked this, has he posted anything yet?
    I was pondering this earlier. The Chinese model of projecting and gaining power globally seems to be investing in those countries they want to have influence in, building infrastructure, spunking great spumes of financial assistance, the nice touchy-feely stuff. (Though no doubt they can be right bastards if they want to.)

    The Anglo-Saxon model has evolved over the centuries from invading and subjugating the countries we wish to control, to merely installing puppets and/or bombing them. Though AUKUS seems to hearken back to carrying a big dick and swinging it with vigour and menace.

    I think the Chinese model probably works more effectively in the 21st century.
    I wonder what the result of a poll would be of the world's population (excluding US and Chinese citizens) in response to the following question:

    "If you were obliged to leave your country of residence and had the choice of the PRC or the USA which would you choose?"

    Whadya reckon? 95% for the USA. More? Less?

    Suspect that may act as a brake on any Chinese dream of hegemony.

    So what? Millwall supporters chant surely applies?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Go to a private doc if it speeds things up

    NHS not fit for purpose #94: I went to the GP after I bust my hand up and he said it's a suspected fracture and we'll get you and appointment which should take 4-6 weeks and call if you don't hear anything.

    Went private was seen the following day, it was operated on and pinned three days after that.

    Wouldn't remember which hand it was now, thanks for asking.
    Bumrungrad Private Hospital, Bangkok. It's like the Savoy. That's always been my go-to place for SERIOUS THINGS

    Not available at the mo, sadly
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    I like this. I do not like the headline, which is a particular form a journalism which irritates me. Just tell me the thing, don't try to tell me how I should be feeling about the thing, at least not in the headline.
    So often an outlet's opening salvo is 'x faces criticism' or 'x faces backlash' or 'fury as y does z'. It's not wrong to report the reaction to the thing if the reaction to the thing is interesting, but if you are reporting the reaction to the thing before reporting the thing - which is almost always the case - it is not reporting but clickbaiting.
    Seems to use pavements. Not sure how it would cope in London! Or how it deals with pedestrians who are visually impaired.
    How does your automower deal with cats?
    Are they allowed on pavements? I have no idea, but they are surely designed for use in a small restricted area, not pavements.
    No idea.

    I think the trial in Glasgow is because if they survive there, they can survive anywhere.
    Then escalating to Manchester, Tunbridge Wells and Cambridge in turn (all the engineers wanting to turn them over, pull all the wheels off and rotary-cutter them open to see how they work).
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    IshmaelZ said:

    gealbhan said:

    Just listened to Boris's statement on AUUKUS. It seems obvious that we're just talking a weapons-procurement project here. The idea that this is going to replace NATO with a myriad of other nations queuing up to join seems utterly laughable.

    I’m not convinced the rest of five eyes were kept out the loop, more likely asked and declined.

    “Excuse me, we are going to play a geopolitical power game with China, similar to the successful one we played with Russia in Syria. Would you like a bigger Red Cross painted on your country?”

    If this is the right announcement, then it is at least ten years too late.

    It’s looking in the real light of this morning as a bit of a fig leaf, truth is It has been failure to combat China up to now, and continued failure going forward behind this fig leaf announcement. Soft power and economics is where the real fight is. The West isn’t even in the same pond.

    How has Trump attacked this, has he posted anything yet?
    I was pondering this earlier. The Chinese model of projecting and gaining power globally seems to be investing in those countries they want to have influence in, building infrastructure, spunking great spumes of financial assistance, the nice touchy-feely stuff. (Though no doubt they can be right bastards if they want to.)

    The Anglo-Saxon model has evolved over the centuries from invading and subjugating the countries we wish to control, to merely installing puppets and/or bombing them. Though AUKUS seems to hearken back to carrying a big dick and swinging it with vigour and menace.

    I think the Chinese model probably works more effectively in the 21st century.
    I wonder what the result of a poll would be of the world's population (excluding US and Chinese citizens) in response to the following question:

    "If you were obliged to leave your country of residence and had the choice of the PRC or the USA which would you choose?"

    Whadya reckon? 95% for the USA. More? Less?

    Suspect that may act as a brake on any Chinese dream of hegemony.

    So what? Millwall supporters chant surely applies?
    Millwall play in a sport that is required to be one team against one team at a time. Geopolitics is not like that.

    For all certain elites around the world like China, they are hated in much of Africa.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Exactly. Insane not to have that final chord of track. I mean, if the Victorians can do it in London, and even today Raltrack can do it over the Mancs (Ordsall Chord), why not London? It's not as if it were the centre of the cosmos or anything like that.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    MaxPB said:

    I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).

    The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.

    I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.

    I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremony

    I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself

    And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
    Big_G can I just point out that the BBC did cover this last night, and they continue to have it as their lead story on the website.

    Are you also upset at all the newspaper front pages who, like the BBC, chose to lead last night with the cabinet reshuffle?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58578976

    PS "our remainer colleagues"... Didn't you vote Remain?
    This was a live statement by the President of the US, and Prime Ministers of UK and Australia and notified to the media worldwide.

    Sky covered it live and have been heavily featuring it but the BBC coverage has been poor

    The front pages are very different as they were going to press during the announcement but broadcast media are able to be far more flexible and do 'breaking news' all the time

    This announcement has understandably upset EU supporters and those on the left as it has profound implications
    LOL 😆

    In fact its Labour who for some time now have been warning the British people that it is the Tories who are too close to the Chinese

    https://www.fkawdw.nl/en/review/image/his_own_personal_signed_copy
  • EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21
  • .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545

    I'm down wif da youth...

    Do you refer to the coming weekend as ‘this weekend’ or ‘next weekend’? The nation is divided, and age is key

    All Britons: 'this' 40% / 'next' 56%

    18-29 year olds: 61% / 31%
    30-39: 51% / 41%
    40-49: 47% / 52%
    50-59: 27% / 71%
    60+: 25% / 70%


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1438454306932510724?s=20

    But then again today is Thursday and the question was asked Monday/Tuesday.....

    This weekend. The next again weekend. (Scottish)

    Avoids ambiguity over "next weekend"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    gealbhan said:

    Just listened to Boris's statement on AUUKUS. It seems obvious that we're just talking a weapons-procurement project here. The idea that this is going to replace NATO with a myriad of other nations queuing up to join seems utterly laughable.

    I’m not convinced the rest of five eyes were kept out the loop, more likely asked and declined.

    “Excuse me, we are going to play a geopolitical power game with China, similar to the successful one we played with Russia in Syria. Would you like a bigger Red Cross painted on your country?”

    If this is the right announcement, then it is at least ten years too late.

    It’s looking in the real light of this morning as a bit of a fig leaf, truth is It has been failure to combat China up to now, and continued failure going forward behind this fig leaf announcement. Soft power and economics is where the real fight is. The West isn’t even in the same pond.

    How has Trump attacked this, has he posted anything yet?
    I was pondering this earlier. The Chinese model of projecting and gaining power globally seems to be investing in those countries they want to have influence in, building infrastructure, spunking great spumes of financial assistance, the nice touchy-feely stuff. (Though no doubt they can be right bastards if they want to.)

    The Anglo-Saxon model has evolved over the centuries from invading and subjugating the countries we wish to control, to merely installing puppets and/or bombing them. Though AUKUS seems to hearken back to carrying a big dick and swinging it with vigour and menace.

    I think the Chinese model probably works more effectively in the 21st century.
    I wonder what the result of a poll would be of the world's population (excluding US and Chinese citizens) in response to the following question:

    "If you were obliged to leave your country of residence and had the choice of the PRC or the USA which would you choose?"

    Whadya reckon? 95% for the USA. More? Less?

    Suspect that may act as a brake on any Chinese dream of hegemony.

    So what? Millwall supporters chant surely applies?
    Millwall play in a sport that is required to be one team against one team at a time. Geopolitics is not like that.

    For all certain elites around the world like China, they are hated in much of Africa.
    So what? Do you think the British Empire in its heyday was widely loved and revered, or the ussr or the Mongols? Soft power is only something to worry about if you don't have the real thing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html
  • Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway after many hours hospital sent Husband home without really doing anything. Told to come back if still not better.

    The system's fucked. I was in A&E for 16 hours when I fucked myself in that recent motorbike accident. I couldn't face going back so I cut my cast off with a pneumatic rotary die grinder and made my own splint with thermoplastic off eBay and velcro tape. Got a megaton yield thermonuclear bollocking of Mrs DA for this act of hardy self-reliance.

    How's the wrist now ?
    Fucked. Still very swollen and painful with almost no grip strength or mobility. Need to do pads and discs on the F80 M3 tomorrow so that'll be a laugh. The new GSX-R has a bidirectional quick shifter so I don't need a clutch hand once I've got it rolling.

    Valhalla, I am coming...


    Mate, go to the doc

    You've got money. Go to a private doc if it speeds things up

    You're a highly entertaining poster, with a fine line in insults, swearing and obscure but dazzling mechanical references, it would be a shame if bits of you fell off, and then you snuffed it because of your *toxic masculinity*

    Tho if this is all a joke, bravo
    You two need to get a room.

    Although, since he's effectively a left-wing version of you it does kinda explain the love in.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Boris could play a blinder here - offer to step in and mediate.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,867
    edited September 2021

    .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Look at the state of this trumpet , we have our Raab's , Williamson's etc up here as well. This clown has wrecked every department he has been Minister for.............
    The health secretary ⁦@HumzaYousaf⁩ does not appear to be having a good day at work…
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1438471391343427584
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,929
    edited September 2021
    deleted
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Yes, that's one reason why we need to build a direct link to HS2, so trains from Scotland/northern England can go direct to the continent. That said, I believe Paris suffers from the same issue (I could be wrong, I dare say the PB Train Experts will clarify).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway after many hours hospital sent Husband home without really doing anything. Told to come back if still not better.

    The system's fucked. I was in A&E for 16 hours when I fucked myself in that recent motorbike accident. I couldn't face going back so I cut my cast off with a pneumatic rotary die grinder and made my own splint with thermoplastic off eBay and velcro tape. Got a megaton yield thermonuclear bollocking of Mrs DA for this act of hardy self-reliance.

    How's the wrist now ?
    Fucked. Still very swollen and painful with almost no grip strength or mobility. Need to do pads and discs on the F80 M3 tomorrow so that'll be a laugh. The new GSX-R has a bidirectional quick shifter so I don't need a clutch hand once I've got it rolling.

    Valhalla, I am coming...


    Mate, go to the doc

    You've got money. Go to a private doc if it speeds things up

    You're a highly entertaining poster, with a fine line in insults, swearing and obscure but dazzling mechanical references, it would be a shame if bits of you fell off, and then you snuffed it because of your *toxic masculinity*

    Tho if this is all a joke, bravo
    You two need to get a room.

    Although, since he's effectively a left-wing version of you it does kinda explain the love in.
    If it helps, I think he is an almighty twat, and a selfish one at that, for not getting the jab, even if it is Green Principles that explain it. GET THE EFFING VAX

  • EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21

    How many aircraft carriers will they be sending?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    France can't kick off too much as they are 100% dependent on the USN to carrier qualify the pilots of the Chasse Embarquée.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,395
    malcolmg said:

    Look at the state of this trumpet , we have our Raab's , Williamson's etc up here as well. This clown has wrecked every department he has been Minister for.............
    The health secretary ⁦@HumzaYousaf⁩ does not appear to be having a good day at work…
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1438471391343427584

    Poor old Humza. He does seem to be accident-prone in every possible way.

    Just look at this: https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/scottish-ambulance-service-crisis-humza-yousafs-advice-to-think-twice-before-dialling-999-raises-fundamental-questions-about-nhs-funding-scotsman-comment-3384681

    The Gavin Williamson of Scotland.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Go to a private doc if it speeds things up

    NHS not fit for purpose #94: I went to the GP after I bust my hand up and he said it's a suspected fracture and we'll get you and appointment which should take 4-6 weeks and call if you don't hear anything.

    Went private was seen the following day, it was operated on and pinned three days after that.

    Wouldn't remember which hand it was now, thanks for asking.
    Bumrungrad Private Hospital, Bangkok. It's like the Savoy. That's always been my go-to place for SERIOUS THINGS

    Not available at the mo, sadly
    Surely not as good as Northwick Park Hosp.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21

    How many aircraft carriers will they be sending?
    They've got four between them
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    Cyclefree said:

    Fuxsake!

    Husband back in hospital again. Tried to swallow a tiny amount of soft white bread soaked in milk and hot water and choked and vomited. Not good. How the hell can a half of walnut do this sort of damage?

    And I can't sit with him either. Furness Hospital in special measures. Hope they have a decent ENT doc. Otherwise we'll be heading for Preston.

    The Cyclefree family really doesn't need this right now.

    Best of luck Cyclefree. Sounds awful. I'd have no qualms about going further for a better hospital, particularly if they couldn't do anything first time around.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    We are facing the consequences of outsourcing the care of our elderly to a workforce almost entirely imported from the developing world. It isn't politically correct to say, but the UK is one of the most rational, reasonable, scientifically literate cultures in the world. That is what drives vaccine willingness. Other cultures are less evidence based and buy into conspiracy theories a lot more.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Cyclefree said:

    Fuxsake!

    Husband back in hospital again. Tried to swallow a tiny amount of soft white bread soaked in milk and hot water and choked and vomited. Not good. How the hell can a half of walnut do this sort of damage?

    And I can't sit with him either. Furness Hospital in special measures. Hope they have a decent ENT doc. Otherwise we'll be heading for Preston.

    The Cyclefree family really doesn't need this right now.

    As I have a long history of medicine in my family (= none) sounds allergy-ish.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    PS Still it would be nice to have a train journey direct from Athens (North) to Athens (South). Maybe before I die.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    malcolmg said:


    Did Gove have a sister I wonder.

    Apols in advance



    At a modest 36,24,36 the gorgeous pouting Ms Gove moves to housing...
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,395
    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).

    The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.

    I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.

    I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremony

    I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself

    And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
    I have no dog in the fight, but why do Leavers think that Look, Brexit fucked up the EU, is a banker of an argument?
    It's not an argument so much as it is the reality of "Brexit means Brexit" as the EU kept telling us over "cherry picking" and such. It was always going to cut both ways but loads of remainers and the EU in general had blinded themselves to the reality of downside risks to the EU of Brexit. Not being in the room was pointed out as a huge downside risk to them of leaving, they brushed it off and acted as though the same level of security cooperation would exist. I remember having discussions with people on here about it and the general remain/EU assumption was that the UK would continue to play a full part in the defence of the EU, it was very obviously not going to happen that way.

    Now everyone needs to live within that new reality. The UK brought the EU with it when we were members, now we won't.
    I have no issue with that. EU membership for me was about the single market, common standards, freedom of movement, shared values. Defence cooperation was and is NATO, and now depending on how it develops AUKUS.

    The French will be seething but these things happen. They will have to suck it up (but will no doubt also look for ways to get their own back).
    We cannot ignore France however, they are the strongest European military power alongside us within NATO in terms of containing Putin's Russia. They have also played a key role with us in Africa in taking on jihadis.

    Yes we can share technologies and enable Australia to have nuclear submarines but at the end of the day it is regional powers in the Far East and Oceania ie not only Australia but Japan and South Korea and maybe India who need to take the lead on containing Xi's China under US leadership. We can provide support but we remain a power in Europe and the Atlantic mainly, since the end of the British Empire we are not a global superpower and since the Hong Kong handover there has been no danger of China threatening British territory directly
    Careful, you don't want to go on the record in a "HYUFD Unbellyfeel Brexit" way.

    Yes, it's a deal, and stiffing the French is never to be sniffed at, but is it that big a deal? And had it happened in, say, 2011, would it have looked that different?
    In 2011 though of course it was Cameron and Sarkozy leading on taking action in Libya to stop a Gaddaffi bloodbath.

    The fact is even post Brexit the EU is our largest trading destination for UK exports and France our closest military partner in maintaining security in Europe and Africa, yes we can be global Britain too but that does not mean forgetting our own backyard
    They did a grand job in Libya , really improved things big time.
    Absolutely they did. Gaddaffi is gone.
    You cretinous halfwit the country is wrecked , untold dead and it is back in medieval state. Only an absolute numpty like you could think that carnage is success.
    Talking of wrecked countries....

    Nicola Sturgeon tells Holyrood there is now "consideration" of "seeking targeted military assistance to help deal with short-term pressure points" in Scotland's crisis-hit ambulance service. Comes after news a 65-year-old man died while enduring a 40-hour wait..

    Nicola Sturgeon under pressure at #FMQs to speed up response, after only saying "considering" Army help and her Health Sec saying response details in a statement next Tuesday.
    @AnasSarwar: “Urgent action needs to happen today.. we can't wait a week for this government to wake up”...

    In response to @AnasSarwar, Nicola Sturgeon gives some more details saying that after #FMQs she's going to her office to work on final details of the request for military assistance for Scotland's ambulance service. So - it's happening.


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1438459188032806915?s=20
    Your mental block obviously missed the same thing in England or does that not count as you are more caring down there. You are ecstatic about death, doom, gloom and misfortune in Scotland. Not an edifying personality trait.
    You mean English health boards had the wit to ask for help when they needed it?

    What ever could have stayed the hand of an SNP Health Minister to asking for help from the British Army?

    It's a puzzle!
    Even you would know it is no puzzle, you know who Health Minister is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Yes, that's one reason why we need to build a direct link to HS2, so trains from Scotland/northern England can go direct to the continent. That said, I believe Paris suffers from the same issue (I could be wrong, I dare say the PB Train Experts will clarify).
    From booking trains from Edinburgh to Avignon for my late dad, he had to change stations in both London and Paris. Might be different now, but I suspect the two countries both suffer from their capital=galactic centre symdrome and can't imagine that anyone might not automatically want to pay homage.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Cookie said:

    Almost 90% of all 16-24 year olds now have Covid antibodies, ONS.

    That's good.
    I was wondering this morning whether we're due another little surge in a week or two when the universities go back. I'm still presuming we will, but hopefully it won't be massive.
    What is the current thinking on how far antibodies protect you, if you are not yet vaccinated?
    I think the thinking is that prior infection is a better protection than vaccination. So on that basis, better. I think?
  • .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
    Not for me it's not. I'd rather a vaccinated agency worker be there while recruitment proceeds than an unvaccinated one passing on the virus.

    Anyone who knows they're working with the very most vulnerable in society that can't be arsed or doesn't want to get vaccinated can't be a very good carer anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol NFT frontrunning

    OpenSea, one of the largest NFT marketplaces, has confirmed that its head of product, Nate Chastain, used insider knowledge to purchase NFTs that he knew were going to be displayed on the front page of OpenSea ahead of general release.

    The accusations first arose on Twitter, with one user called ‘Zuwu’ saying that Chastain seems to be selling these pieces “shortly after the front-page-hype spike for profits.”

    Yesterday, on September 15, OpenSea published a post confirming Chastain’s actions.

    The most ridiculous thing about it, he only made 20 ETH. Which at $3-4k per ETh sounds like a lot of money, until you see how much money OpenSea is making per day. They are making millions and millions, as they take 2.5% of every sale.

    The whole NFT market is just one giant MLM scheme, people hype up a project to get other people interested, flip their crap to them, who then try and flip it to somebody...and the top of the chain, then move onto the next bag of shit to flip.

    One user has made $15 million out of this so far this year.

    I shouldn't complain though, selling shovels to all these idiots has made me a decent chunk of change past few weeks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited September 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Fuxsake!

    Husband back in hospital again. Tried to swallow a tiny amount of soft white bread soaked in milk and hot water and choked and vomited. Not good. How the hell can a half of walnut do this sort of damage?

    And I can't sit with him either. Furness Hospital in special measures. Hope they have a decent ENT doc. Otherwise we'll be heading for Preston.

    The Cyclefree family really doesn't need this right now.

    Is that because of a lingering Covid reg ?

    It's the absolute worst one of the lot tbh.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21

    I think that goes into the "thanks, but no thanks" column.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
    Not for me it's not. I'd rather a vaccinated agency worker be there while recruitment proceeds than an unvaccinated one passing on the virus.

    Anyone who knows they're working with the very most vulnerable in society that can't be arsed or doesn't want to get vaccinated can't be a very good carer anyway.
    Wouldn't they have to rewrite the terms of employment?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Yes, that's one reason why we need to build a direct link to HS2, so trains from Scotland/northern England can go direct to the continent. That said, I believe Paris suffers from the same issue (I could be wrong, I dare say the PB Train Experts will clarify).

    A direct link to HS2 destroys Camden, so no thanks

    I am sure there used to be direct Eurostar services from London to Avignon? Maybe I imagined it. Never did that journey

    Certainly I have always had to get off at Gard du Nord then head for the next station.....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Almost 90% of all 16-24 year olds now have Covid antibodies, ONS.

    That's good.
    I was wondering this morning whether we're due another little surge in a week or two when the universities go back. I'm still presuming we will, but hopefully it won't be massive.
    What is the current thinking on how far antibodies protect you, if you are not yet vaccinated?
    I think the thinking is that prior infection is a better protection than vaccination. So on that basis, better. I think?
    Yep. Prior infection generates antibodies to the whole virus not just the spike protein (as with the some of the vaccines) and thus more avenues of attack. Best is probably a combo of recovery from infection plus the odd vaccination.
    I believe that there is evidence of SARS protection still in recovered patients 20 years after the infection. There is every reason to hope that this will be true of Covid.
  • TOPPING said:

    .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
    Not for me it's not. I'd rather a vaccinated agency worker be there while recruitment proceeds than an unvaccinated one passing on the virus.

    Anyone who knows they're working with the very most vulnerable in society that can't be arsed or doesn't want to get vaccinated can't be a very good carer anyway.
    Wouldn't they have to rewrite the terms of employment?
    No because the law has been changed which has done that for them. All contracts require the law to be followed so failure to get vaccinated when its a legal requirement is Gross Misconduct and can and should lead to dismissal without notice or compensation.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Fuxsake!

    Husband back in hospital again. Tried to swallow a tiny amount of soft white bread soaked in milk and hot water and choked and vomited. Not good. How the hell can a half of walnut do this sort of damage?

    And I can't sit with him either. Furness Hospital in special measures. Hope they have a decent ENT doc. Otherwise we'll be heading for Preston.

    The Cyclefree family really doesn't need this right now.

    That's awful; hope he gets better soon.

    As an anecdote: Mrs J has a silly habit of dry-swallowing tablets (i.e. without water). One got stuck in her throat a few years back, and it caused her problems for a while. Although tablets are probably worse than walnuts, as they might cause other irritations from the chemicals as they dissolve.

    But thankfully she got better. And she now never dry-swallows tablets. Well, almost never. ;)
  • MaxPB said:

    EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21

    I think that goes into the "thanks, but no thanks" column.
    Wasn't it about 24 hours ago we were getting people gleefully pointing out that the UK wasn't even mentioned as an ally (when the US and others were) in their State of the Union speech?

    As always, they needed us more than we needed them. Now we're moving on they're realising what they've lost.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    A lot of suffering and illness on here today

    I HOPE EVERYONE GETS BETTER
  • Best wishes Cyclefree and DuraAce (and anyone else I've missed).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    TOPPING said:

    .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
    Not for me it's not. I'd rather a vaccinated agency worker be there while recruitment proceeds than an unvaccinated one passing on the virus.

    Anyone who knows they're working with the very most vulnerable in society that can't be arsed or doesn't want to get vaccinated can't be a very good carer anyway.
    Wouldn't they have to rewrite the terms of employment?
    No because the law has been changed which has done that for them. All contracts require the law to be followed so failure to get vaccinated when its a legal requirement is Gross Misconduct and can and should lead to dismissal without notice or compensation.
    Your libertarian streak is showing again. Did you put your jackboots on to compose that?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Fuxsake!

    Husband back in hospital again. Tried to swallow a tiny amount of soft white bread soaked in milk and hot water and choked and vomited. Not good. How the hell can a half of walnut do this sort of damage?

    And I can't sit with him either. Furness Hospital in special measures. Hope they have a decent ENT doc. Otherwise we'll be heading for Preston.

    The Cyclefree family really doesn't need this right now.

    Is that because of a lingering Covid reg ?

    It's the absolute worst one of the lot tbh.
    Yes. I'm 5 minutes away in a cafe which is hosting a funeral party, of all things.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
  • When you’re a minister and a video emerges of you falling over because you were racing a knee walker up a corridor in front of TV cameras, the correct response is to admit you were an eejit and laugh it off. Not get huffy about the video and make yourself look po-faced to boot.

    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1438487342688440328?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    MaxPB said:

    EU @JosepBorrellF said the bloc would be "very happy" if the U.K. were interested in joining the EU's efforts to develop a coordinated naval presence in Indo-Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1438482905425195016?s=21

    I think that goes into the "thanks, but no thanks" column.
    Wasn't it about 24 hours ago we were getting people gleefully pointing out that the UK wasn't even mentioned as an ally (when the US and others were) in their State of the Union speech?

    As always, they needed us more than we needed them. Now we're moving on they're realising what they've lost.
    It's quite a coup for Scott Morrison in Oz.

    The Aussie press mauled him for an apparent snub at the G7 in Carbis Bay, when he didn't get a one-on-one with Biden, and Boris joined them. It was the only major meeting where the press were excluded and discussions not disclosed.

    Now we know why. That's when the entire plan was formally discussed for the first time by the three leaders. An Aussie proposal that started under the Trump admin. This has been brewing for years, it seems. Now Morrison is getting praised by the same hostile press.

    And.... no one told the EU

    "The EU was blindsided by last night's announcement of the new AUKUS alliance. The Commission says it 'was not informed about this project' and is now asking for 'more information'. A spox insists: 'It will have no impact on our bilateral relations with the partners in question.'"

    https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1438452284883705856?s=20
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    When you’re a minister and a video emerges of you falling over because you were racing a knee walker up a corridor in front of TV cameras, the correct response is to admit you were an eejit and laugh it off. Not get huffy about the video and make yourself look po-faced to boot.

    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1438487342688440328?s=20

    What's this about?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    theProle said:

    Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

    King of the North is totally wrong side of the argument on this. It really isn't unfair at all. All adults have now had months to organize getting jabbed, and you have a duty of care to the people you look after.

    The reality is that it's going to put a lot of pressure on the sector as those who don't want to be jabbed (probably the main reason now for unjabbed staff in this sector) leave. In other times, this might not have mattered, but with the current state of the jobs market, they will be difficult or expensive to replace.
    Choosing between "not enough staff" and "all staff jabbed" is not necessarily clear cut.
    Yes it is. These staff are literally dealing with the most vulnerable to the virus. No excuses, get the jab or get out of the sector.

    Anyone who wants to keep their job will go get the jab.
    The problem is that quite a few of them probably don't particularly want to keep their job and are likely eyeing better paid and less stressful work elsewhere.
    That's not a problem.

    If that gets the unvaccinated away from the vulnerable then that's a win.

    And if they can find a job happy to hire them that makes them happier then good luck to them too.

    Good luck answering the "why did you leave your last employer" question at interview if it gets asked though.
    More pertinently, the problem is that there is a desperate shortage of care staff at the moment, and nobody wants to do anything to make the situation even worse. I agree that care workers should certainly be vaccinated, but if the choice is between an unvaccinated carer and no carer, then things are less clear cut!
    Not for me it's not. I'd rather a vaccinated agency worker be there while recruitment proceeds than an unvaccinated one passing on the virus.

    Anyone who knows they're working with the very most vulnerable in society that can't be arsed or doesn't want to get vaccinated can't be a very good carer anyway.
    Wouldn't they have to rewrite the terms of employment?
    No because the law has been changed which has done that for them. All contracts require the law to be followed so failure to get vaccinated when its a legal requirement is Gross Misconduct and can and should lead to dismissal without notice or compensation.
    Your libertarian streak is showing again. Did you put your jackboots on to compose that?
    I couldn't give less of a fuck.

    Absolutely libertarianism means people can and should be able to decide for themselves whether they get the vaccine or not.

    But that does not give the unvaccinated the right to deliberately expose themselves to pass on the virus to those most at risk from it.

    My nan has no choice but to be in the home. If she could leave it, she would. She doesn't want to be there, but she needs to be. She has no say in who cares for her and if they're unvaccinated then they can much more easily pass on the virus and she could die.

    If someone doesn't want to be vaccinated that's their choice. If they then choose to go into a care home while unvaccinated then I have no more respect for them than I would anyone HIV positive having unprotected sex with a partner unaware of their HIV status.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Now that's a plan with real vision. A Europe-wide sleeper network would be fantastic for both leisure and business, removing the absurd reality of flying – that you lose an entire day by making a three-hour flight. Better to sleep overnight, on the train.
    Quite. Although terrible for the business hotel industry (although maybe you could use the hotels for the homeless)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    I do admire the way they call NATO, OTAN. Class.
  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Boris could play a blinder here - offer to step in and mediate.
    As much as he may like to he cannot mediate away French diesel submarines from Australia's need for nuclear powered ones
  • According to legislator Muhammad Farhan, Indonesian Foreign Affairs Ministry has summoned Chinese ambassador for explanation about the presence of coast guard and survey vessels in Indonesia's EEZ.

    https://twitter.com/duandang/status/1438181034323898368?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    There is no way you could do this without fucking off the French and - to a lesser extent - the EU - if you have decided to exclude them. That's just the way it is. And you can't warm them up front because inevitably it will leak and make everything 100 times harder. This had to be done as a fait accompli

    It is actually of a piece with Biden's cackhanded withdrawal from Afghanistan. Biden just wants the end result, and he doesn't care if it hurts to get there. He's gone up in my estimation this time, but Kabul was still a disaster.
  • gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    I do think reality is now dawning on the French of what Brexit really means for the standing of the EU (and by association France).

    The UK brought a lot to the EU table and instead of accomodating the world's 5th largest economy, permanent UN security council member and major military power, the EU beancounters decided that losing the UK was a better choice than accomodating us. Now when key global decisions are being made the EU has got no presence, it's not in the room.

    I have no love of the continual fracturing of the western alliance, however, it looks set to ramp up. I expect this new agreement will pull Japan, South Korea and India in as associate members fairly soon. I doubt any EU nation will be invited. Ultimately the US will want a very, very tightly closed circle on tech sharing. No single EU country can be trusted to keep the circle closed.

    I understand the agreement is to be signed in the US next week with Boris travelling there and India and Japan invited to the ceremony

    I really do not think our remainer colleagues have even started to understand what a devastating and profound blow this is, not just to France, but the EU itself

    And the BBC may finally wake up to this and cover it
    Big_G can I just point out that the BBC did cover this last night, and they continue to have it as their lead story on the website.

    Are you also upset at all the newspaper front pages who, like the BBC, chose to lead last night with the cabinet reshuffle?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58578976

    PS "our remainer colleagues"... Didn't you vote Remain?
    This was a live statement by the President of the US, and Prime Ministers of UK and Australia and notified to the media worldwide.

    Sky covered it live and have been heavily featuring it but the BBC coverage has been poor

    The front pages are very different as they were going to press during the announcement but broadcast media are able to be far more flexible and do 'breaking news' all the time

    This announcement has understandably upset EU supporters and those on the left as it has profound implications
    LOL 😆

    In fact its Labour who for some time now have been warning the British people that it is the Tories who are too close to the Chinese

    https://www.fkawdw.nl/en/review/image/his_own_personal_signed_copy
    Any idea that that might be the case has been dispelled in one tripartite military treaty to be signed in the US next week
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Yes, that's one reason why we need to build a direct link to HS2, so trains from Scotland/northern England can go direct to the continent. That said, I believe Paris suffers from the same issue (I could be wrong, I dare say the PB Train Experts will clarify).

    A direct link to HS2 destroys Camden, so no thanks

    I am sure there used to be direct Eurostar services from London to Avignon? Maybe I imagined it. Never did that journey

    Certainly I have always had to get off at Gard du Nord then head for the next station.....
    I've always thought it a shame that Crossrail and HS2 were not planned together, so an occasional service could use the Crossrail tunnels to access HS1 and HS2. The lines are very close together at Stratford and Old Oak Common.

    But due to the wonderful interconnected way we do things, it probably cannot happen. I think the Crossrail loading gauge is too small, for one thing, even for HS2's classic compatible trains...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    I do admire the way they call NATO, OTAN. Class.
    They put both on the E-3 AWACS planes. With a pleasingly palindromic symmetry.

    https://www.alamy.com/nato-awacs-image260788897.html

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    The Rupert Murdoch-owned media company News UK has announced it will launch a new TV channel in early 2022.

    TalkTV will be streamed live and made available via on-demand platforms.

    The title of the new network brings it into line with some of the company's existing speech radio stations, talkRADIO and talkSPORT.

    News UK said the new station would feature presenting talent from its existing brands, which also include Virgin Radio and Times Radio.

    Chris Evans, Graham Norton, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Trisha Goddard, John Pienaar, Rob Rinder and the newly-hired Jeremy Kyle are among the presenters across News UK's existing networks.

    The company said there would also be appearances from journalists employed by News UK's newspapers, The Sun, The Times and The Sunday Times.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58586493

    And I presume Piers Moron....
  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    All a bit odd - the Aussies could have gone for nuke subs back in the 1950s when they were in the forefront of military tech and cooperation (Woomera, Ikara etc.) Geography hasn't changed since then.
  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    I've not heard anything about Oz wanting to upgrade the French deal to nukes.
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    All a bit odd - the Aussies could have gone for nuke subs back in the 1950s when they were in the forefront of military tech and cooperation (Woomera, Ikara etc.) Geography hasn't changed since then.
    The threat has
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    It is interesting how this seems to be very specific to the French. The Germans, for example, seem incredibly relaxed about English being the international language. It is only the French who continue to insist on the use of their own language.

    Does this all stem from the fact that for hundreds of years that French was the language of diplomacy and has lost that status?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    I've not heard anything about Oz wanting to upgrade the French deal to nukes.
    Argued on this thread:

    https://twitter.com/TotherChris/status/1438448919420280836?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited September 2021

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    There's also been German lobbying against France in Australia because ThyssenKrupp thought they could win some of the business.
  • Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    It's France's fault. Theory goes that Australia faced with growing Chinese fleet decided to upgrade subs from diesel to nuclear and the French (who were converting their nuclear sub to diesel for the Australians) said "Non". What did they expect? Australia needed nuclear subs - France refused to supply them.
    I've not heard anything about Oz wanting to upgrade the French deal to nukes.
    I have read it was the case but that France would not permit its nuclear technology to be used by anyone other than itself

    I am sure someone will confirm or otherwise this story
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited September 2021
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    You do realise that this poll (like most recent polls) would give SPD+Greens+Left a majority, don't you? Oh never mind.
    The SPD, Greens and Linke would also have had a majority in 2005 and 2013 too but the SPD did not do it as they would not touch the Stalinist Linke.

    In 2017 the CDU/CSU, AfD and FDP would have had a majority but the CDU did not do it as it would have meant dealing with the populist right AfD.

    If the SPD win most seats and do a deal with the Linke as well as the Greens rather than the FDP or the Union as per the previous Grand Coalitions then it would change German politics for good and shift it from the centre to the extremes.

    Inevitably the Union as it moves right in opposition would then also start to have to consider future deals with the AfD in response. The FDP having been snubbed by the SPD would also move firmly into the right of centre camp
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    My guess (one of my guesses...) is that one reason for this deal is that so it *isn't* twenty years. Oz and others have realised that China's proving a regional strategic threat much faster they had feared. I bet Oz get something much faster, even if it's 'loaned' boats for 'training' purposes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    It is interesting how this seems to be very specific to the French. The Germans, for example, seem incredibly relaxed about English being the international language. It is only the French who continue to insist on the use of their own language.

    Does this all stem from the fact that for hundreds of years that French was the language of diplomacy and has lost that status?
    Absolutely, yes

    Hurt pride. The French are extremely proud, and the demotion of their language (so quick and so brutal) hurts very badly, at least in elite intellectual/political circles.

    In my experience the average French person by contrast doesn't really give a fuck, they can see reality, and many of them now speak excellent English, the young especially
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    I put that article through Google Translate and got this:

    "Certainly, it is a bad blow struck by Australia, perhaps by other countries against France. It will have consequences. In the immediate future, it is a bad blow between allies, a bad one. unacceptable blow, it is a bad blow for employment ", declared the former European commissioner, during a trip to the international exhibition of breeding (SPACE) in Rennes.

    WTF?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,094
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    The advice from Twitter's Night Train Enthusiast English Speaking Member of the German Greens is that 25% of those routes are not viable:


    Thread here:
    https://twitter.com/TrainsForEurope/status/1438446916057116674
  • AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    It is interesting how this seems to be very specific to the French. The Germans, for example, seem incredibly relaxed about English being the international language. It is only the French who continue to insist on the use of their own language.

    Does this all stem from the fact that for hundreds of years that French was the language of diplomacy and has lost that status?
    France never really gave up its imperial pretensions and interpreted the Suez crisis in the opposite way to us. In a way the Aukus deal is another Suez moment for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    Is Boris making a statement about AUUKUS in the House today? If so, Sir Keir should go with the following questions.

    Does this new alliance require us to provide specific military capabilities? If so will they require additional funding.

    Will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops under the new alliance and if so under what circumstances?

    Intelligence is to be shared. What intelligence is to be shared with whom. Are there any restrictions on what intelligence we must share and who decides this?

    Technology is to be shared. Ditto.

    Will this new alliance require the permanent stationing of British armed forces in the Indo-Pacific region?

    Surely the most important question is could no-one think of a better acronym than AUUKUS? Because if they can't I doubt they can save us anyway.
    Small point but it is now AUKUS
    CAUKUS by next month?
    Listening to Boris it will not be extended but 5 eyes cooperation will continue but not as a members
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Yes, one of the things a colleague pointed out this morning is the insistence of France to try and do everything in French as being a sticking point to everything involving them. Even now their bitching an moaning is all in French language media with only a few choice statements being made to English language media.

    His point was that any information sharing including the French will inevitably result in everything needing to be in French as well as English and that means translators and widening the circle of who has access to highly classified information which is already an issue for the US wrt what is being shared with Australia.
    I thought Australian was pretty well comprehensible both here and in the US ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

    Almost like we never learn.

    We need to have a discussion (which we won't have) about the UK's place in the world, militarily. We seem to think it now has something to do with keeping China contained in the Indo-Pacific region.

    Fine.

    But if this has been thought through, via position papers, strategic defence reviews, and workshopped by all stakeholders I'll stop posting on PB for 20 mins from 3am-5am on a Sunday morning.

    It's just Boris (and potentially the General Staff) grandstanding without any regard for what it means in practice should things turn hot.

    Edit: and it doesn't even seem to be that. Just us pushing from the back.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    AlistairM said:

    I put that article through Google Translate and got this:

    "Certainly, it is a bad blow struck by Australia, perhaps by other countries against France. It will have consequences. In the immediate future, it is a bad blow between allies, a bad one. unacceptable blow, it is a bad blow for employment ", declared the former European commissioner, during a trip to the international exhibition of breeding (SPACE) in Rennes.

    WTF?
    Agricultural exhibition.

    Why it has the world's lamest acronym, in English, God knows.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Pandemic's over, zero cases in Scotland.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Lol NFT frontrunning

    OpenSea, one of the largest NFT marketplaces, has confirmed that its head of product, Nate Chastain, used insider knowledge to purchase NFTs that he knew were going to be displayed on the front page of OpenSea ahead of general release.

    The accusations first arose on Twitter, with one user called ‘Zuwu’ saying that Chastain seems to be selling these pieces “shortly after the front-page-hype spike for profits.”

    Yesterday, on September 15, OpenSea published a post confirming Chastain’s actions.

    The most ridiculous thing about it, he only made 20 ETH. Which at $3-4k per ETh sounds like a lot of money, until you see how much money OpenSea is making per day. They are making millions and millions, as they take 2.5% of every sale.

    The whole NFT market is just one giant MLM scheme, people hype up a project to get other people interested, flip their crap to them, who then try and flip it to somebody...and the top of the chain, then move onto the next bag of shit to flip.

    One user has made $15 million out of this so far this year.

    I shouldn't complain though, selling shovels to all these idiots has made me a decent chunk of change past few weeks.
    The whole thing sounds utterly bonkers.
  • Technical hitch with Scotland cases:

    Scotland Daily Coronavirus (COVID-19) Report · Thursday 16th September.

    No new cases (people positive) reported, giving a total of 517,216.

    26 new deaths reported, giving a total of 8,319.


    https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1438493635239194626?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited September 2021
    AlistairM said:

    I put that article through Google Translate and got this:

    "Certainly, it is a bad blow struck by Australia, perhaps by other countries against France. It will have consequences. In the immediate future, it is a bad blow between allies, a bad one. unacceptable blow, it is a bad blow for employment ", declared the former European commissioner, during a trip to the international exhibition of breeding (SPACE) in Rennes.

    WTF?
    It's an agricultural fair: https://www.space.fr/

    Interesting that Barnier says the lesson is that France's influence in Europe and the world is diminishing...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    ping said:

    Canada.

    Polls still neck and neck. All the polls seem to be rolling, ie, small sample sizes. Useful to identify a trend, less useful to estimate the current voteshare for betting purposes. Time running out. Election is on the 20th.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2021_Canadian_federal_election

    I’m backing con most seats >3/1.

    That’s not a betting tip. Current odds are probably about right.

    The latest poll from EKOS has the Liberals and Conservatives tied in the popular vote but the Liberals lead 37% to 32% for the Conservatives in Ontario and the Liberals lead 34% to 28% for the BQ and 22% for the Conservatives in Quebec.

    So the Liberals should still win most seats. Though if some of the 8% voting PPC in Ontario at present move back to the Conservatives that could change things
    https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2021/09/daily-tracking-september-15-2021/
  • Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

    Unfortunately, this is turning into a massive diplomatic spat about arms procurement, with the US looking either shifty or cack handed. The stuff about a 'New Alliance' (if that's really a thing at all - Boris was hardly shouting about it from the rooftops in the House earlier) is being completely overshadowed. Boris was unwise to drag us into this.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

    Almost like we never learn.

    We need to have a discussion (which we won't have) about the UK's place in the world, militarily. We seem to think it now has something to do with keeping China contained in the Indo-Pacific region.

    Fine.

    But if this has been thought through, via position papers, strategic defence reviews, and workshopped by all stakeholders I'll stop posting on PB for 20 mins from 3am-5am on a Sunday morning.

    It's just Boris (and potentially the General Staff) grandstanding without any regard for what it means in practice should things turn hot.

    Edit: and it doesn't even seem to be that. Just us pushing from the back.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/the-integrated-review-2021

    Take 20 minutes off on Sunday morning.

    A lot of thought has been put into the future of defence and the issues with China.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    AlistairM said:

    I put that article through Google Translate and got this:

    "Certainly, it is a bad blow struck by Australia, perhaps by other countries against France. It will have consequences. In the immediate future, it is a bad blow between allies, a bad one. unacceptable blow, it is a bad blow for employment ", declared the former European commissioner, during a trip to the international exhibition of breeding (SPACE) in Rennes.

    WTF?
    Google translate appears to think it 's 'not good' !
  • Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

    Unfortunately, this is turning into a massive diplomatic spat about arms procurement, with the US looking either shifty or cack handed. The stuff about a 'New Alliance' (if that's really a thing at all - Boris was hardly shouting about it from the rooftops in the House earlier) is being completely overshadowed. Boris was unwise to drag us into this.
    Boris was entirely wise to lead us into this.

    The ones whinging and bemoaning being stabbed in the back because of their own impotence, that we've left behind, are the ones who were unwise not to facilitate us better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    This whole little episode has been appallingly handled by the US and Australia. If the idea was to give Boris a brief moment in the sun then it worked; if the idea was to forge a new unity amongst the democratic western nations against the Chinese menace, then it's failed staggeringly. I think we can add this to Afghanistan in the list of Biden's foreign-policy blunders. He's catching up Trump, make no mistake.
    The reaction has been weird. It's not clear what if anything the UK gets out of this but the tories are going in dry on each other because France got fucked as if that's all it takes to please them.

    If you take away the banal political theatre what has actually happened beyond the existing security and defence frameworks? Nothing, except Australia might get SSNs with British bog roll holders 20 years hence.
    The benefits for the UK are more political, for now.

    When Remoaners go on about "isolated Brexit Britain" (and for months this has been a valid attack line) the government can now say, Er, fuck off, we've just signed THE MOST IMPORTANT MILITARY TREATY IN DECADES. Britain is firmly allied with her English speaking cousins, we are allied with the world's most powerful nation, we are trying to contain China while the EU wibbles on about data privacy

    And it is not just the Brits who are bigging up this agreement. It is huge news in Australia and the Yanks are saying it is "the most important strategic pivot in generations". And the Chinese are reacting fiercely, as you'd expect

    Battle lines are being drawn. Britain has chosen. It is no small thing (even if, as you say, the practical changes are limited in the short term)

    Fine but the US, UK and Australia are not strong enough to contain China alone in Asia, they need Japan, S Korea and India on board as well.

    Plus we also need France to help us contain Russia and deal with jihadis in Africa and share intelligence on extremists
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Linke flirting with relevance.

    Deutschland Wählt
    @Wahlen_DE
    · 4h
    BUNDESTAGSWAHL | Sonntagsfrage YouGov

    SPD: 25% (-1)
    Union: 20% (-1)
    GRÜNE: 15%
    AfD: 11% (-1)
    FDP: 10%
    LINKE: 8% (+2)
    FW: 3% (NEU)
    Sonstige: 7% (-3)

    SPD and Grune and Linke still only gets to 48% though, SPD and Grune and FDP does get to 50%
    I think this is an outlier for die Linke but I would be surprised if they poll less than 6% and get less than 3 constituency seats in East Berlin. I would be surprised if they got any constituency elsewhere though (like Leipzig/Dresden etc)
    Assuming that FW and Sonstige(others) are not in the final shareout as they are below 5%, then 48 out of 90 will definitely be above 50%, therefore a majority.
    I agree about the Linke 8% being an outlier (the other poll on the same day showed them still at 6). But as Gary and Davey say, the sPD is likely to have a choice - Greens plus FDP or Linke. I think Scholz would prefer the FDP, though that might lose some voters on the left. Probably we won't know at once as Scholz will trade off one against the other in negotiations.
    On a lighter note, this is what the Greens in Germany want for a sleeper train network. It gets my vote!


    Mine too. Some impossibly romantic journeys there. London to Venice. London to Barcelona. London to Naples. Wake up looking at Capri!

    Edinburgh to Athens would be the ultimate but they've gotta get up and cross stations in London. Sorry about that
    Yes, that's one reason why we need to build a direct link to HS2, so trains from Scotland/northern England can go direct to the continent. That said, I believe Paris suffers from the same issue (I could be wrong, I dare say the PB Train Experts will clarify).

    A direct link to HS2 destroys Camden, so no thanks

    I am sure there used to be direct Eurostar services from London to Avignon? Maybe I imagined it. Never did that journey

    Certainly I have always had to get off at Gard du Nord then head for the next station.....
    There did, and still is I think (it’s summer only) but surely not via Paris?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,094
    edited September 2021

    Leon said:

    EU still not very chuffed by AUKUS. Particularly Paris

    "A diplomatic crisis between Paris and Washington" - Le Monde


    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/09/16/crise-diplomatique-entre-washington-et-paris-au-sujet-des-sous-marins-australiens_6094856_3210.html

    Certainly it puts Macron in an unfortunate spot in the run-up to the presidential elections. And certainly a help for Michel Barnier who already has a reputation for being a seasoned international operator and "hard man" when it comes to negotiations. Macron didn't even get to negotiate - just got shafted without a moment's thought by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons.
    Also on fishermen:

    (Does anyone know if Jersey have got themselves sorted? @CarlottaVance ).

    Mr Barnier also declared himself "alongside" French fishermen, as the three-month extension of the provisional licenses granted to EU boats, mainly French, ends on September 30, and a new demonstration is announced Saturday in Pirou (Manche).

    "French fishermen are right, as are fishermen from other countries. I am at their side to simply ask that the agreements made be respected, to the letter. They are not. I have already said that in In this area, I find that the British behave like filibusters ", declared Michel Barnier questioned by AFP.

This discussion has been closed.