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Could Raab be in trouble at Esher and Walton? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,849
    Andy_JS said:

    Liz Truss's chances of being next PM must have significantly increased today. It'll be interesting to see if the betting odds have changed.

    God preserve us
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Certainly a wellknown adultress!
    God does not hate you for being gay, and it was unkind of the other boys to point at your penis in the showers and laugh. Now just stop it.

    You do understand that that bloke in the bible who says Thank God I am not as other men are is not presented as a positive role model, do you?
    That is defammatory in that it is totally false.
    If you say so, ducky.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,143
    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123
    MaxPB said:

    Anne Marie Trevelyan to Trade

    Mega leaver if memory serves me correctly.
    Yes, ardent leaver. Would have been a no dealer
  • Options
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
  • Options

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    The UC £20 cut/withdrawal will be obvious to those on the receiving end, in and out of red wall seats. It is one of those issues that does not depend on Labour making capital.
  • Options
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that its a tweet 'has emerged', like someone went digging in an ancient archive rather than just looked back over her twitter feed.
    It’s not racist to say a black man looks like another black man, but Chuka Umunna doesn’t look anything like Chris Eubank.
    She's just an idiot then. Thanks for confirming
  • Options
    The Rt Hon Sajid Javid MP @SajidJavid remains Secretary of State for Health and Social Care @DHSCgovuk

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438184017216552965?s=20
  • Options
    Betting Post

    You can lay No Overall Majority in the Canadian election at 1.15 on Betfair Exchange and back it at 1.25 (without boost) on Ladbrokes.

    And with that, I am off.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while labour will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    Not just that, but the pay rises are coming from the bottom.

    For many years, the minimum wage was a maximum for many jobs - but now we are seeing genuine increases for the poorest workers, as firms compete to hire people, rather than people competing to be hired by firms.
  • Options
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that its a tweet 'has emerged', like someone went digging in an ancient archive rather than just looked back over her twitter feed.
    It’s not racist to say a black man looks like another black man, but Chuka Umunna doesn’t look anything like Chris Eubank.
    IMV the question goes deeper: at this level, what does it matter *what* someone looks like? She's not trying to buy a car from someone with a coat that has a faint whiff of goat.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,538

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that its a tweet 'has emerged', like someone went digging in an ancient archive rather than just looked back over her twitter feed.
    It’s not racist to say a black man looks like another black man, but Chuka Umunna doesn’t look anything like Chris Eubank.
    She also confused a journalist with a Labour candidate. Maybe a pattern here?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Certainly a wellknown adultress!
    God does not hate you for being gay, and it was unkind of the other boys to point at your penis in the showers and laugh. Now just stop it.

    You do understand that that bloke in the bible who says Thank God I am not as other men are is not presented as a positive role model, do you?
    That is defammatory in that it is totally false.
    If you say so, ducky.
    You have no basis at all for making such a malign accusation. I have taken a screenshot .
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    No word from Labour on whether Angela Rayner will become shadow deputy prime minister
    https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1438183321280950275?s=20

    Top trolling 😟
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and of course it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    But it also raises prices, remember. Which cuts in different ways.
    Yes it will increase inflation, but rising wages from a low base is to be welcomed
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Certainly a wellknown adultress!
    God does not hate you for being gay, and it was unkind of the other boys to point at your penis in the showers and laugh. Now just stop it.

    You do understand that that bloke in the bible who says Thank God I am not as other men are is not presented as a positive role model, do you?
    That is defammatory in that it is totally false.
    If you say so, ducky.
    You have no basis at all for making such a malign accusation. I have taken a screenshot .
    Was it a dick pic?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    Yes it is the Northern Line extension. One day I hope it will also run to Clapham Junction.
  • Options
    I presume the social care levy vote in advance of the Autumn CSR was to keep everyone in line for fear of this reshuffle.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Certainly a wellknown adultress!
    God does not hate you for being gay, and it was unkind of the other boys to point at your penis in the showers and laugh. Now just stop it.

    You do understand that that bloke in the bible who says Thank God I am not as other men are is not presented as a positive role model, do you?
    That is defammatory in that it is totally false.
    If you say so, ducky.
    You have no basis at all for making such a malign accusation. I have taken a screenshot .
    Was it a dick pic?
    On the same basis I can suggest you are a paedophile.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and of course it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    But it also raises prices, remember. Which cuts in different ways.
    And price ourselves out of global markets, destroying jobs in the process. We can't all make a living driving things round for each other.

    But if the government can't bribe us with government money, it has to try bribing us with our own money...
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,143
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that its a tweet 'has emerged', like someone went digging in an ancient archive rather than just looked back over her twitter feed.
    Given ND's past spats there will be a whole archive somewhere.
    There will be some fulsome support for this eye catching appointment in the express and mail.

    And her sunbathing topless in the Sun.

    Reminds me a bit of when Major put Edwina into a key position.
    Nah, forget I mentioned that bit.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    Russell T Davies won an NTA gong this week (for It's a Sin). David Tennant is a seriously good actor, arguably now our best television actor.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and of course it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    But it also raises prices, remember. Which cuts in different ways.
    And price ourselves out of global markets, destroying jobs in the process. We can't all make a living driving things round for each other.

    But if the government can't bribe us with government money, it has to try bribing us with our own money...
    The problem with the Tories, is eventually they run out of money
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Certainly a wellknown adultress!
    God does not hate you for being gay, and it was unkind of the other boys to point at your penis in the showers and laugh. Now just stop it.

    You do understand that that bloke in the bible who says Thank God I am not as other men are is not presented as a positive role model, do you?
    That is defammatory in that it is totally false.
    If you say so, ducky.
    You have no basis at all for making such a malign accusation. I have taken a screenshot .
    Was it a dick pic?
    On the same basis I can suggest you are a paedophile.
    I thought that was already common knowledge.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MaxPB said:

    Anne Marie Trevelyan to Trade

    Mega leaver if memory serves me correctly.
    I actually think she is under rated.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    edited September 2021
    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and of course it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    But it also raises prices, remember. Which cuts in different ways.
    And price ourselves out of global markets, destroying jobs in the process. We can't all make a living driving things round for each other.

    But if the government can't bribe us with government money, it has to try bribing us with our own money...
    The problem with the Tories, is eventually they run out of money
    Indeed so - only one Government since World War 2 has bequeathed a Budget Surplus to its successor - Wilson's Labour Government in 1970.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Anne Marie Trevelyan to Trade

    Mega leaver if memory serves me correctly.
    I actually think she is under rated.
    She can’t be that badly regarded, surely
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,126

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    I doubt they care too much.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while labour will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    Not just that, but the pay rises are coming from the bottom.

    For many years, the minimum wage was a maximum for many jobs - but now we are seeing genuine increases for the poorest workers, as firms compete to hire people, rather than people competing to be hired by firms.
    Also good for the Treasury as:

    (1) Higher wages mean more income tax and NI payments
    (2) Higher wages potentially means lower tax credit payments

    Partially offset by higher wages means lower corporate profits which means lower corporation tax. However, as firms like Amazon do not pay taxes anyway, not much impact there.

  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    I think anyone who pays any attention to this sort of thing is not going to give Boris credit for sacking someone he obviously never should have appointed in the first place (Williamson).
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Roger said:

    Even Tim Montgomerie thinks Liz Truss built up her non deal with Australia for a bunch of headlines. After Brexit and Afghanistan do we really need a self publicising fantacist?

    Roger said:

    Even Tim Montgomerie thinks Liz Truss built up her non deal with Australia for a bunch of headlines. After Brexit and Afghanistan do we really need a self publicising fantacist?

    Better get used to it

    She may be the next PM
    I’m sceptical about this.

    I understand postBrexit, now global Britain, signing the necessary new trade arrangements makes someone very popular. Just wonder if the same people take quite the opposite view when they find the devil in the detail.

    Importing nurses is picking up at quite a rate now again.
  • Options
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I see @Casino_Royale is having a cent at Jacinda Ardern who had the temerity to rout a hapless centre-right Opposition at a general election last year.

    It seems, despite the current Level 4 lockdown in Auckland (eased to Level 2 elsewhere) the Prime Minister and the Labour Party remain in a strong position:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300407943/covid19-nz-new-poll-has-national-at-21-per-cent-act-not-far-behind-at-15-per-cent

    If you want a definition of an ineffective Opposition leader, don't look at Starmer who is a political colossus compared to the useless Judith Collins who oversaw the National rout last year and has remained leader despite what the centre-right tell us is the wealth of talent on the National benches - Christopher Luxon anyone?

    The extraordinary aspect of the polls is the gender difference - women have Labour an astonishing 42 points ahead while men have National seven points ahead.

    There used to be the notion of generational politics but what of gender? The Redfield/Wilton poll which shows the Conservatives four points ahead has the Conservatives eight points ahead among men and tied with Labour among women - not as stark as NZ but still interesting.

    In France, Macron has much stronger support than men while Marine Le Pen gets more support from women.

    Why don't you engage with my specific criticism of her rather than just sledging it as a partisan potshot? Not everyone views global politics as following the right colours of a football team as you do.

    I want New Zealand firmly in the Western alliance. She threatens that.

    If she does well I can and will say so.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I wonder if Williamson will now be plotting his revenge. He was sacked by Theresa May and did not take it lying down.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,538
    edited September 2021
    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    Russell T Davies won an NTA gong this week (for It's a Sin). David Tennant is a seriously good actor, arguably now our best television actor.
    RTD has seen his career go from strength to strength, even surviving the abominably bad Torchwood USA. He also put his career on the back burner to look after his husband who, tragically, died of cancer a few years ago.

    Tennant is just excellent in everything he does.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Steven Moffat hugely complicated the show's canon for no great gain. He could at least write snappy dialogue, even if his love of time paradoxes grew wearing.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,480
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can @RochdalePioneers please not post things like ‘Mad Nad for education?’ I genuinely did feel ill when I read that until I realised it was a joke.

    Nadhim Zahawi is a good appointment
    Quite possibly he is. But as I have said before, Williamson wasn’t the problem and firing him won’t on its own be a solution. Unless Gibb and Spielman are also removed along with the entirety of the senior structure of the DfE - everybody of undersecretary rank and above - then it’s deckchairs on the Titanic.
    I've said before that Gibb is the Tory Education equivalent of the nuclear war surviving cockroach.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    17-18 years is a very good run for a show though, not far off the length of the original good run down to about 1983-84.

    But yes, Moffat was a poor choice to run the show after Tennant. Good at writing episodes, hopeless at managing story arcs.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,480
    Though cockroaches are unfairly maligned creatures.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Steven Moffat hugely complicated the show's canon for no great gain. He could at least write snappy dialogue, even if his love of time paradoxes grew wearing.
    True, he did, yet his work under RTD for the show was uniformally excellent.

    The whole River Song ‘Time Travellers Wife’ thing never really worked either.

    Mark Gatiss is a fan and has been closely involved with the show until Chibnall and his work has been generally Mediocre. Too many fans involved in the show.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    I think anyone who pays any attention to this sort of thing is not going to give Boris credit for sacking someone he obviously never should have appointed in the first place (Williamson).
    It was May who made him Chief Whip, and Cameron who gave Raab his first ministerial post. Not that that detracts very much from your point.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Nadhim Zahawi MP @NadhimZahawi has been appointed Secretary of State for Education @educationgovuk
    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438171652723023879?s=20

    i) He'll do a good job and
    ii) the Anti-vaxxers will go absolutely nuts (aren't they already? - ed.)

    Excellent appointment
    Really? Jabs were popular. His media appearances rather all over the place.
  • Options

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
    You might be right. I do not like sci fi (or fantasy) – not even when they get their kit off.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    justin124 said:

    I wonder if Williamson will now be plotting his revenge. He was sacked by Theresa May and did not take it lying down.

    Do you take it lying down?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    Carnyx said:

    Confirmed:

    Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=20

    Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.
    The current proposals are to gut GDPR and to seriously reduce data privacy safeguards, under the guise of some gentle streamlining of the regulation. I can't see the UK keeping its EU data adequacy agreement if they go ahead with the proposals.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MattW said:

    justin124 said:

    Stocky said:

    I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.

    The Tory Trollop moves further up the greasy pole!
    She writes novels?
    Yep:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nadine-Dorries/e/B00I4ZK0L2?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1631722555&sr=1-1
    Not that far from SeanT in style:



    I wonder if she carries a knife?

    Und der Haifisch, der hat Zähne,
    Und die trägt er im Gesicht...
    “ Not that far from SeanT in style “

    That’s actually on the back cover! 😲
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
    I'm just glad someone's doing something with the shell.

    I moved to London thirty years ago. When I was fit, I used to walk along the Thames, and admire Bankside. Even as a disused husk, it was magnificent. Then I'd go further down the Thames and see Battersea and weep. Better known, nowhere near as glorious, but ruinous after Broome's misadventures.

    Both deserve to live. But Bankside will always be a better image of Scott's vision. I love the place, even in its new use.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,149

    As less and less people are wearing masks, the decrease in cases has increased.

    I know its your pet theory, but can you think of another factor thats also still increasing? Hint vaccinated people and those who have recovered from infection...
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that its a tweet 'has emerged', like someone went digging in an ancient archive rather than just looked back over her twitter feed.
    It’s not racist to say a black man looks like another black man, but Chuka Umunna doesn’t look anything like Chris Eubank.
    IMV the question goes deeper: at this level, what does it matter *what* someone looks like? She's not trying to buy a car from someone with a coat that has a faint whiff of goat.
    It doesn't matter, but I think people are allowed to notice and say it if they like
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    The hardcore fans were appalled by the Timeless Child retcon to the Doctor's backstory, so I'm not sure it's the fact Chibnall is a fan of the show which is has caused its problems.
    More that he's a terrible writer, who should never have been considered for the role of showrunner. That awful Cyberwoman episode he wrote for Torchwood should have disqualified him from writing science fiction ever again.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
    The whole reboot was too clever, camp and knowing for its own good. The original was, I imagine, groundbreaking and brilliant for its time. I'm 60 so watched it unironically from behind the sofa, and it was heaps better than most stuff on the telly back then.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.

    It’s fans writing for fans. It’s the old Alan Partridge line. ‘People like them, lets make some more’.

    We have them always bringing back old villains with little purpose. The Zygons came back a few years ago. Why? One story in the seventies and a small cameo or two aside but it was pointless. Putting an ice warrior on a submarine. Why ?

    Reliving the old days. Like the JNT era it becomes a disappointment and the show is made for fans who don’t like it.

    Too many fans are continuity obsessed.
  • Options
    I should also add that Chibnall brought back no old villains in his first season. It was just as garbage as the last season was.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,841
    As for the reshuffle - to be honest, no big surprises and clearly somebody's been looking at PB.

    The departure of Williamson will be widely welcomed as will Raab's move though I gather he remains Deputy PM.

    Liz Truss has done well at Trade but FCO is different - it has to be more than trade and in a period where foreign policy seems to have been sub-contracted next door you wonder how Truss will get her viewpoint across.

    Dowden is being "rewarded" with the poisoned chalice of Conservative co-chair. He can hardly be less anonymous than his predecessor but poor local results next year will diminish his prospects of being a potential successor to Johnson.

    Michael Gove gets Local Government and the Union - the sublime AND the ridiculous.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    Silly tube trivia question. Which stations can you go north one stop, get off the train, go north another stop, and end back up in the same place?
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
    With the current state of the electricity grid, the best thing to do with it would be to stick a coal fired power-station back in it.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    Silly tube trivia question. Which stations can you go north one stop, get off the train, go north another stop, and end back up in the same place?
    Oh, I know this.. the bear is white
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    The hardcore fans were appalled by the Timeless Child retcon to the Doctor's backstory, so I'm not sure it's the fact Chibnall is a fan of the show which is has caused its problems.
    More that he's a terrible writer, who should never have been considered for the role of showrunner. That awful Cyberwoman episode he wrote for Torchwood should have disqualified him from writing science fiction ever again.
    He’s clearly not a terrible writer as his TV output, Dr Who and Torchwood aside has been well received. He has had a reasonable career.

    Not only his Torchwood episodes were poor and Cyberwoman was probably the poorest. His Dr Who episodes were awful too.

    In the past stuff like the time lords in the war games and gallifrey in deadly assassin may not have been well received but they added to the show as this was an aspect that was not known. The timeless child added nothing to the show.

    At least Gatiss didn’t get it.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.

    It’s fans writing for fans. It’s the old Alan Partridge line. ‘People like them, lets make some more’.

    We have them always bringing back old villains with little purpose. The Zygons came back a few years ago. Why? One story in the seventies and a small cameo or two aside but it was pointless. Putting an ice warrior on a submarine. Why ?

    Reliving the old days. Like the JNT era it becomes a disappointment and the show is made for fans who don’t like it.

    Too many fans are continuity obsessed.
    It's like Star Wars episodes 7 to 9. They should have asked Lucas for a three-story plot arc and create the world vision and character arcs, then bound and gagged him from writing any dialogue. They should then have employed brilliant writers sans vision to envision that plot arc and the character progression.

    Instead they listened to fans after every episode, and produced inconsistent dross.
  • Options

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    Don't worry, I've diverted it onto the safe ground of Star Wars ep.7 to 9 now ...
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    I should also add that Chibnall brought back no old villains in his first season. It was just as garbage as the last season was.

    Fill your boots in the next block. There’s a few coming back.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.

    It’s fans writing for fans. It’s the old Alan Partridge line. ‘People like them, lets make some more’.

    We have them always bringing back old villains with little purpose. The Zygons came back a few years ago. Why? One story in the seventies and a small cameo or two aside but it was pointless. Putting an ice warrior on a submarine. Why ?

    Reliving the old days. Like the JNT era it becomes a disappointment and the show is made for fans who don’t like it.

    Too many fans are continuity obsessed.
    It's like Star Wars episodes 7 to 9. They should have asked Lucas for a three-story plot arc and create the world vision and character arcs, then bound and gagged him from writing any dialogue. They should then have employed brilliant writers sans vision to envision that plot arc and the character progression.

    Instead they listened to fans after every episode, and produced inconsistent dross.
    I take great offence at that. No dross has been more consistent than the Star Wars films.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.

    It’s fans writing for fans. It’s the old Alan Partridge line. ‘People like them, lets make some more’.

    We have them always bringing back old villains with little purpose. The Zygons came back a few years ago. Why? One story in the seventies and a small cameo or two aside but it was pointless. Putting an ice warrior on a submarine. Why ?

    Reliving the old days. Like the JNT era it becomes a disappointment and the show is made for fans who don’t like it.

    Too many fans are continuity obsessed.
    It's like Star Wars episodes 7 to 9. They should have asked Lucas for a three-story plot arc and create the world vision and character arcs, then bound and gagged him from writing any dialogue. They should then have employed brilliant writers sans vision to envision that plot arc and the character progression.

    Instead they listened to fans after every episode, and produced inconsistent dross.
    Saw the first film, found it underwhelming. I think my expectation was too high. Never seen another one.
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Confirmed:

    Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=20

    Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.
    The current proposals are to gut GDPR and to seriously reduce data privacy safeguards, under the guise of some gentle streamlining of the regulation. I can't see the UK keeping its EU data adequacy agreement if they go ahead with the proposals.
    If this stops people doing stupid stuff everywhere for fear of GDPR (e.g. My church used to email round a copy of the membership address book, now they will only give it out in hardcopy, lest it somehow get forwarded to someone who shouldn't have it in breach of our GDPR policy), then they should get on an do it.
    There may be some good in GDPR somewhere, but it's mostly just been an excuse for petty bureaucracy and stupid cookie popups.
  • Options

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    A big part of the 23/24 election is going to be government competence. Whilst I concur people don't care about reshuffles generally this one does seem to improve cabinet competence a fair amount. Its still not competent but the likes of Williamson and Raab were pretty much guaranteed to score own goals, which the public do notice.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,126

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    As far as reshuffles go it was very much new bottle same dreary wine.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,641
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.

    It’s fans writing for fans. It’s the old Alan Partridge line. ‘People like them, lets make some more’.

    We have them always bringing back old villains with little purpose. The Zygons came back a few years ago. Why? One story in the seventies and a small cameo or two aside but it was pointless. Putting an ice warrior on a submarine. Why ?

    Reliving the old days. Like the JNT era it becomes a disappointment and the show is made for fans who don’t like it.

    Too many fans are continuity obsessed.
    It's like Star Wars episodes 7 to 9. They should have asked Lucas for a three-story plot arc and create the world vision and character arcs, then bound and gagged him from writing any dialogue. They should then have employed brilliant writers sans vision to envision that plot arc and the character progression.

    Instead they listened to fans after every episode, and produced inconsistent dross.
    Saw the first film, found it underwhelming. I think my expectation was too high. Never seen another one.
    Could never take it seriously after I saw the recoil of the photon cannon. Though it's only more recently I learnt that the Startroopers were carrying Lewis LMGs - sans ammunition drums - and MG34s.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,316
    edited September 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
    I'm just glad someone's doing something with the shell.

    I moved to London thirty years ago. When I was fit, I used to walk along the Thames, and admire Bankside. Even as a disused husk, it was magnificent. Then I'd go further down the Thames and see Battersea and weep. Better known, nowhere near as glorious, but ruinous after Broome's misadventures.

    Both deserve to live. But Bankside will always be a better image of Scott's vision. I love the place, even in its new use.
    Bankside became Tate Modern, of course. Battersea was iconic though (aided by *that* album cover). From what I remember, Battersea's interior was also seriously beautiful.
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    When did the jubilee line extension for the Olympics open?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,123
    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
    The whole reboot was too clever, camp and knowing for its own good. The original was, I imagine, groundbreaking and brilliant for its time. I'm 60 so watched it unironically from behind the sofa, and it was heaps better than most stuff on the telly back then.
    The first run had some peaks and troughs though. The end of the Hartnell run had some cracking stories but the ratings were poor. The end of Troughton had some mediocre stories and the ratings were poor. Tom Bakers last season was destroyed in the ratings by Buck Rogers.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Confirmed:

    Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=20

    Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.
    The current proposals are to gut GDPR and to seriously reduce data privacy safeguards, under the guise of some gentle streamlining of the regulation. I can't see the UK keeping its EU data adequacy agreement if they go ahead with the proposals.
    If this stops people doing stupid stuff everywhere for fear of GDPR (e.g. My church used to email round a copy of the membership address book, now they will only give it out in hardcopy, lest it somehow get forwarded to someone who shouldn't have it in breach of our GDPR policy), then they should get on an do it.
    There may be some good in GDPR somewhere, but it's mostly just been an excuse for petty bureaucracy and stupid cookie popups.
    Isn't this like padded gloves and goggles for conkers? It's not he legislation that's the problem, but the poor public of understanding of it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    As far as reshuffles go it was very much new bottle same dreary wine.
    I disagree. Most of them are the same old bottles as well.

    Matthew 9:14-17 applies. Hopefully.
  • Options

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
    You might be right. I do not like sci fi (or fantasy) – not even when they get their kit off.
    I see literary genres like music. There are types of music I love: electronic being an example. There are some I don't like: rock and country being two. But even in the ones I dislike, there are gems. Several of Queen's output are superlative in the rock genre. Anything by Dusty in the country genre.

    It's the same with sci-fi. Here are two shorts I love: "Travel with my cats", and "Friction"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travels_with_My_Cats
    https://escapepod.org/2008/02/08/ep144-friction/

    Both very different. And not a single spacecraft in either. (In fact, they might stray over into fantasy.)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    A big part of the 23/24 election is going to be government competence. Whilst I concur people don't care about reshuffles generally this one does seem to improve cabinet competence a fair amount. Its still not competent but the likes of Williamson and Raab were pretty much guaranteed to score own goals, which the public do notice.
    Raab is now in charge of a major domestic portfolio where there are major, major problems that are going to need energy, imagination and money to sort out.

    He doesn’t have any of them.

    This could be a train crash.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    As far as reshuffles go it was very much new bottle same dreary wine.
    I disagree. Most of them are the same old bottles as well.

    Matthew 9:14-17 applies. Hopefully.
    Gavin Williamson - Deuteronomy 23:1
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
    I'm just glad someone's doing something with the shell.

    I moved to London thirty years ago. When I was fit, I used to walk along the Thames, and admire Bankside. Even as a disused husk, it was magnificent. Then I'd go further down the Thames and see Battersea and weep. Better known, nowhere near as glorious, but ruinous after Broome's misadventures.

    Both deserve to live. But Bankside will always be a better image of Scott's vision. I love the place, even in its new use.
    Bankside became Tate Modern, of course. Battersea was iconic though (aided by *that* album cover). From what I remember, Battersea's interior was also seriously beautiful.
    They should knock the bloody thing down. It is hideous and utterly out of keeping with the rest of the riverside there. I really can't see why everybody is so desperate to preserve it (other than the usual fear that our architects will make what replaces it even worse of course)
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,396

    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    Silly tube trivia question. Which stations can you go north one stop, get off the train, go north another stop, and end back up in the same place?
    Eh? So you're you walking to the second stop? Or is this a wordplay question? I'm interested, but I don't understand.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    gealbhan said:

    Sandpit said:

    gealbhan said:

    All the Tories who said Starmer was weak and useless, I am sure will be straight out to call BoJo the same, after Raab just pulled the same move.

    Anyone? Anyone?

    Rayner just called Gavin Williamson a “prat”. Government in waiting?

    When it comes to Rayner, Starmer is weak and useless.
    Rayner’s directly elected by the membership, she doesn’t report to Starmer.
    It is evident that whilst gealbhan has a good political knowledge - and I am sure much better knowledge than me on most things - their Labour knowledge is dreadful.
    Nonsense. I have explained on here exactly how it’s done. Two thirds vote on the NEC abolishes Angela Rayner.

    You haven’t been paying attention. 😆
    So, Horse. Is it “gealbhan has a good political knowledge - and I am sure much better knowledge than me on most things - and their Labour knowledge is so much better than mine too after I embarrassed myself suggesting otherwise this afternoon. Yes indeed, Rayner can be removed by a vote in the NEC. And Starmer better get on with it, before viz mouth Ang calls Dorries a Swamp Donkey, Raab a Miserbator, and Truss a proper Scruttock with more front than Windaloo On Sea. “

    Hm?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    As far as reshuffles go it was very much new bottle same dreary wine.
    I disagree. Most of them are the same old bottles as well.

    Matthew 9:14-17 applies. Hopefully.
    Gavin Williamson - Deuteronomy 23:1
    Don’t be silly. Bastard is a massive cock who talks lots of bollocks.

    Proverbs 26:12 would be better.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    As far as reshuffles go it was very much new bottle same dreary wine.
    I disagree. Most of them are the same old bottles as well.

    Matthew 9:14-17 applies. Hopefully.
    Gavin Williamson - Deuteronomy 23:1
    Don't you start.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    A big part of the 23/24 election is going to be government competence. Whilst I concur people don't care about reshuffles generally this one does seem to improve cabinet competence a fair amount. Its still not competent but the likes of Williamson and Raab were pretty much guaranteed to score own goals, which the public do notice.
    Raab is now in charge of a major domestic portfolio where there are major, major problems that are going to need energy, imagination and money to sort out.

    He doesn’t have any of them.

    This could be a train crash.
    Can't argue with that. Give him a couple of months and he might start to understand that funding courts is an essential building block for justice.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    I expect that as Boris has sacked Williamson and demoted Raab it will be popular with the public

    The public pays little attention to reshuffles - other than when they prove explosive such as back in 1993 when Lamont was removed from the Treasury.
    Even PB seems to have got bored with it and turned to debating Dr Who!
    A big part of the 23/24 election is going to be government competence. Whilst I concur people don't care about reshuffles generally this one does seem to improve cabinet competence a fair amount. Its still not competent but the likes of Williamson and Raab were pretty much guaranteed to score own goals, which the public do notice.
    Raab is now in charge of a major domestic portfolio where there are major, major problems that are going to need energy, imagination and money to sort out.

    He doesn’t have any of them.

    This could be a train crash.
    Can't argue with that. Give him a couple of months and he might start to understand that funding courts is an essential building block for justice.
    I’ll just be happy if in two months he’s grasped that courts are part of the justice process.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Taz said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    The BBC has mentioned a few times now that Liz Truss is the first female Foreign Secretary, which will be news to Margaret Beckett who held the role under Tony Blair.

    https://twitter.com/GrantTucker/status/1438156831436705794?s=19

    It's such a typical and revealing establishment take.

    They every see every single news story through the prism of identity politics.

    Why the hell should it matter? Let's comment on the experience, capability and agendas of the people appointed - not "celebrate" what tackle they do or don't have between their legs, or what their skin colour is.
    I think there is still something in celebrating a milestone, but you can take that too far and if you then get too specific or its not really a new bar being reached then it is not really worth talking about.

    A first female Foreign Secretary, if it had been the case, would be worth noting, but as we've had two female PMs and other female holders of Great Offices (still waiting on Chancellor) it wouldn't have been that big a deal.

    I vaguely recall an example of it going wrong with the lead from Star Trek Discovery, since there had already been a black female member of a main cast in Star Trek, and a black captain and a female captain, so being the first black female lead character was a thing, but not that big a thing.
    Same with Doctor Who, where the water was extensively tested with a female master and whatever River Song turned out to be, and when we did get a lady doctor, she was surrounded by men just in case.
    There were the cringe inducing promos prior to her first season with a glass ceiling breaking. Subtle.

    The Whitaker years have been poor, really poor. The show has not really recovered from the loss of Tennant and RTD. There have been some highlights along the way but the decline under Whitaker has been marked. Very few highlights and what a load of old shite the Timeless child arc was.

    Chibnalls comments to Pip and Jane Baker have certainly come back to haunt him.
    RTD should come back and save it, otherwise time to put it on ice for a few years.
    RTD has nothing to prove and why would he. He’s moved onwards and upwards and would he recreate the magic a second time.

    Rumour is it is going on hiatus. It needs to. The show can, and will, reinvent itself but it is devoid of ideas. It’s disjointed. It needlessly brings back old monsters and foes for no good reason. The stories are unmemorable. The interest in the show has declined. Merchandise sales are through the floor. The magazine sells to a dwindling audience.

    The show was said to be actor proof, it is not Showrunner proof.

    The problem is the show has been run by fans for far too long.
    Doctor Who is sci-fi for people who don't get sci-fi. ;)

    (Runs for cover)

    Seriously though, it's cr@p scifi. It always has been, always will be. It's lazy, and its world - even in the modern iteration - is laughably inconsistent.

    Take the Angels. They create a brilliant enemy. A really horrific one. So Doctor Who defeats them, and they bring them back. Do they make the angels more intelligent, having learnt from their mistakes? No. They just bring back more of them.

    It's lazy and stupid writing.
    The whole reboot was too clever, camp and knowing for its own good. The original was, I imagine, groundbreaking and brilliant for its time. I'm 60 so watched it unironically from behind the sofa, and it was heaps better than most stuff on the telly back then.
    The first run had some peaks and troughs though. The end of the Hartnell run had some cracking stories but the ratings were poor. The end of Troughton had some mediocre stories and the ratings were poor. Tom Bakers last season was destroyed in the ratings by Buck Rogers.
    I thought the Family of Blood was pretty good.
  • Options
    Love a bit of Casino on Stodge, fight fight fight!
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    Silly tube trivia question. Which stations can you go north one stop, get off the train, go north another stop, and end back up in the same place?
    Eh? So you're you walking to the second stop? Or is this a wordplay question? I'm interested, but I don't understand.
    No. Taking two trains, one after each other. Both northbound. And end in same place. Not a joke, but for pedants, northbound would have been more accurate wording than north.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Pointless personal anecdote. My love of chemistry was born at the age of seven when I went to an open day at Battersea Power Station and saw "water" magically change colour when a powder was added. The turbine hall was scarily noisy but strangely beautiful.

    Interesting anecdote. Aren't they turning Battersea Power Station into Google's new UK headquarters? I think so although haven't read anything about it recently.
    Apple as well as Google iirc, and some posh flats. I've lost my mole inside Google so have no inside information to share.
    Google are moving to King's Cross. They have a gigantic new campus there. I think it's Apple in Battersea. Facebook are consolidating in Covent Garden iirc.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,396
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while labour will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    Not just that, but the pay rises are coming from the bottom.

    For many years, the minimum wage was a maximum for many jobs - but now we are seeing genuine increases for the poorest workers, as firms compete to hire people, rather than people competing to be hired by firms.
    Yes - during the Blair years there was a constant rising of average wages, which didn't seem to ring true - took a while to cotton on that while mean wages were going up, median wages were static: it was all driven by wage growth at the top.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,841


    Why don't you engage with my specific criticism of her rather than just sledging it as a partisan potshot? Not everyone views global politics as following the right colours of a football team as you do.

    I want New Zealand firmly in the Western alliance. She threatens that.

    If she does well I can and will say so.

    Well, let's see what you said earlier:

    Ardern is a classic Wokey. Attack the historic and culture of your own country, and meanwhile cosy up to modern nasty authoritarian regimes and bat away any issues with Whataboutery for an extra buck.

    No wonder the Chinese love her.

    I do accept there's a considerable contrast between the attitudes of Australian PM Scott Morrison and New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern. I'm not sure the extent to which Morrison's rhetoric is more for domestic consumption than having anything substantial behind it.

    China is of course one of Australia's biggest customers for raw materials whether it be iron ore or coal for the new power stations which are going to be so helpful in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

    New Zealand supplies different things to China - milk, lamb for example. It's a different product and a different market.

    Ardern isn't "threatening the Western Alliance" - she's following a less slavishly pro-Washington policy than John Key but she's no David Lange. That said, I see no mood to depart from ANZUS or not to be involved in collaborative enterprises such as the Cyber Crime Working Group.

    The position of the Maori in NZ society and culture is always going to be complex. The Maori have a rich and diverse culture which, in former times, the Europeans (Pakeha) tried to destroy or at least marginalise. The extent, however, to which that culture needs to be "protected" is open to question.

    The problem is, the Maori are on course to be the third, not second, largest group in NZ behind the Europeans and the Asians (Auckland is quite an Asian city in some aspects).

    It diminishes and trivialises a complex issue by throwing around the W-word.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,841

    Love a bit of Casino on Stodge, fight fight fight!

    Two classy PB heavyweights enjoying a light sparring on a midweek reshuffle night.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,396

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Important tube news: the two new stations at Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms open on Monday 20th September.

    Which line is that?

    Northern Line? Runs south from Kennington, I think.
    A spur off it I suppose.

    Spur to Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station from Kennington. Takes the number of tube stations to 272.

    First new tube station since 2008 when Wood Lane opened on the Hammersmith & City Line, although that wasn't a new line: it was a new station inserted between existing stations. The most recent new station which involved new track was Heathrow Terminal 5 which opened earlier in 2008.
    Silly tube trivia question. Which stations can you go north one stop, get off the train, go north another stop, and end back up in the same place?
    Eh? So you're you walking to the second stop? Or is this a wordplay question? I'm interested, but I don't understand.
    No. Taking two trains, one after each other. Both northbound. And end in same place. Not a joke, but for pedants, northbound would have been more accurate wording than north.
    Ah - I see! Is it Euston-KCSP?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    edited September 2021
    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    jonny83 said:

    Can Labour capitalise on this cut to UC? This is the sort of thing they should be scoring hits on a government over and yet I don't think they are being effective at all over it.

    I do not support the loss of the temporary £20 UC uplift but the country is divided 38/39 on support/ oppose

    Not an easy one, but was clearly part of the pandemic emergency funding, and they’ll need to find £6bn per year in taxes or borrowing to keep it running.

    Ditto the furlough scheme, there’s several hundred thousand about to go from 80% of their salary to the dole. It still has to be done though.
    In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that Boris is determined that wages have to rise hence why he is not permitting work visas

    He seems to be developing a narrative that the conservative party are a high wage controlled immigration party, while labour will hold down wages through their support for unrestricted immigration

    There is evidence wages are rising quite quickly and of course the electorate will see this in their pay packets, and it raises more tax and reduces the need for benefits

    This is the brexit divided if it comes about
    Not just that, but the pay rises are coming from the bottom.

    For many years, the minimum wage was a maximum for many jobs - but now we are seeing genuine increases for the poorest workers, as firms compete to hire people, rather than people competing to be hired by firms.
    Also good for the Treasury as:

    (1) Higher wages mean more income tax and NI payments
    (2) Higher wages potentially means lower tax credit payments

    Partially offset by higher wages means lower corporate profits which means lower corporation tax. However, as firms like Amazon do not pay taxes anyway, not much impact there.

    There is, though, a small issue.

    The UK already imports a lot more than it exports. We want higher wages, but that has to be matched by increased productivity, otherwise we will end up squeezing our remaining export industries.

    I am heartened by Gove at Housing: my hope is that one is able to offer "real" pay rises to people by making their cost of living lower.

    But this is a tightrope. And it's not like British firms are particularly profitable - corporate profits in the UK are already a smaller percentage of GDP than most of our European peers.

    Edit to add: the NI charge is an issue here, as it effectively is a real pay cut for workers, and is really not what we want to be doing here.
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