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Will Biden’s net approval go negative? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 21 in General
imageWill Biden’s net approval go negative? – politicalbetting.com

The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan will hold terrible, often fatal, consequences for many people. Interpreters, who assisted Western forces. Journalists, who provided information to their people. Women and girls, regardless of their actions. But, from a political betting perspective, the most notable consequence is a far less important one: It’s been an awful week for Joe Biden.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,011
    The belief that things will quieten down over winter is probably well placed.... and journos are unlikely to rush to Kabul in the coming months (unless they are particualrly ambitious) IMO this story will slow and eventually drip drip into 2022 and the Spring/Summer may be when it takes hold with consequences for incoming UK and US elections
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,738
    Jealous of the people having a lie in.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    I think net negative is very possible, as a further fiasco is quite likely, perhaps from Americans as hostages. There must be lots outside Kabul, who cannot get to the airport.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701
    edited August 21
    moonshine said:

    Jealous of the people having a lie in.

    No lie-in here – just unable to think of anything interesting and on-topic.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    Good morning, everyone.

    It's eminently possible. Probably more bad news before it starts to fade.

    A week of dry weather, and the rain is set to arrive just as I need to have a long walk (to the dentist) for the first time since the plague. Fiddlesticks!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701

    Good morning, everyone.

    It's eminently possible. Probably more bad news before it starts to fade.

    A week of dry weather, and the rain is set to arrive just as I need to have a long walk (to the dentist) for the first time since the plague. Fiddlesticks!

    It is the business of the wealthy man
    To give employment to the artisan uber driver
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 603
    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    Mr. JohnL, your suggestion neglects two things:
    1) I'm a tight-fisted Yorkshireman (who also doesn't use a mobile).
    2) Exercise is a good thing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    So far as I can see, social containment measures don't do much to control Delta. It is too infectious, particularly in the pre-symptomatic period. Sadly it is also clear that while protective against illness and particularly against severe illness, vaccines only reduce rather than eliminate Delta. All the unvaccinated will get it in the end, and probably the rest of us too.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,971
    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,837

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,144
    Looks a bit brighter this morning, but the summer sun seems to have been rather a rarity this August. However, it's a little warmer this morning.

    On the negative side, rain is forecast for just about kick-off time for our local club's first home match. Not, sadly, that I think I'll be able to get to it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    Probably needs a proofread that one. Although they are probably anti-bad in Australia TBF.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,971
    FPT - hilarious to wake up this morning and see a handful of diehards screaming "Brexit will never die!" on last night's thread.

    I was referring to Tory party internal politics. Not your desire to defiantly holdout in Papau New Guinea with your shin guntō for the next 30 years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519

    FPT - hilarious to wake up this morning and see a handful of diehards screaming "Brexit will never die!" on last night's thread.

    I was referring to Tory party internal politics. Not your desire to defiantly holdout in Papau New Guinea with your shin guntō for the next 30 years.

    Oh, certainly the Tory party is now entirely pro-Brexit, quite a shift from 2016, just 5 short years ago. It is why I won't be voting Conservative again.

    But if the issue doesn't die in the country, and it won't, then the party will have to take an interest. They cannot just draw a line and walk away from it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,455
    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    It's quite easy to get vaccinated in Sydney. My 28 year old nephew there got the AZN a few weeks back. No one wants it it seems.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,455
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    It's quite easy to get vaccinated in Sydney. My 28 year old nephew there got the AZN a few weeks back. No one wants it it seems.
    Is that just AZ or all of them ?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,927
    edited August 21
    Foxy said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    So far as I can see, social containment measures don't do much to control Delta. It is too infectious, particularly in the pre-symptomatic period. Sadly it is also clear that while protective against illness and particularly against severe illness, vaccines only reduce rather than eliminate Delta. All the unvaccinated will get it in the end, and probably the rest of us too.

    It does look as if pretty much everyone is going to be exposed to it at some point, doesn’t it? In which case, your personal reaction to it is extremely well correlated with your vaccination status.

    Which is a big problem for Australia, where they have been slow to get going and have an American-sized anti-vax movement. They’re going to have to pray that summer saves them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,742
    Scott_xP said:

    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    It's quite easy to get vaccinated in Sydney. My 28 year old nephew there got the AZN a few weeks back. No one wants it it seems.
    Is that just AZ or all of them ?
    I think just the AZ. Others are more in demand, I believe.



  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701
    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,742
    Morning all.

    A boundary fence between Greece and Turkey, along part of Greece's eastern border.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58289893
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:
    Yes, she is good at it and knows her audience.

    Though could Raabs defenders cite a few examples of his brilliance in the role of Foreign Secretary? A list of his successes perhaps?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    To wear a fleece or not, when it's 17C and raining/likely to lightly rain...

    The agony of choice.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,971
    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    Thanks
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,742
    edited August 21
    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    What's an anti-bad movement, please?

    Is it "AZ is a bad vaccine" or "against bad anti-vaxxers" or Teutonic-Australians deciding that it is Green not to take any more baths?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,144
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    A boundary fence between Greece and Turkey, along part of Greece's eastern border.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58289893

    Build a wall?????
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,742

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    A boundary fence between Greece and Turkey, along part of Greece's eastern border.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58289893

    Build a wall?????
    It's a bloody big fence, though in a classical style.


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    Ah, it's helpfully raining so heavily now that a fleece is essential.

    I, for one, am shocked that the Greeks might erect such a barrier to their old friends the Turks. Ahem. Especially given Erdogan's threats of using refugees to flood Europe.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,231
    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,086

    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
    I did have a good chuckle though at the surreal suggestion Trump was a better president than Biden because he was so incompetent he couldn’t organise a coup properly.

    Had he been able to I probably wouldn’t have been laughing…

    I’m also amazed, given his pathetic response to North Korea and indeed the Taleban breaking every clause every clause of the deals he brokered with them before the ink was even dry that they think he would have been more feared than Biden.

    None of which in any way excuses the quite extraordinary incompetence of the Biden administration over the last month, given they were elected to clear up the mess not make it worse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,231
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    Another thing that struck me with Biden this evening, again it was all "America only" again. It is basically convention that the US president name checks partners working on these missions, and yet it was all only America can do this....not America and its long standing partners such as UK and France.

    Yes, all the talk about “America’s back” is just waffle. Biden has shafted his allies and couldn’t give a f*ck. At least Trump didn’t pretend
    "didn't pretend" to care about his allies' interests, and that's a positive?

    You really are embarrassing yourself here. There are no Biden fans.
    "There are no Biden fans."

    There certainly were. But not any more
    So I would have picked KLOBUCHAR or Buttigieg but I'm now a Biden fan. Either of those other people would speak in more coherent sentences but they'd more than likely have followed Obama and Trump, looked at all the different shades of chaos that might follow and let the people in charge of the failed occupation sucker them into prolonging it.

    The war was a mistake, there was no non-chaotic way to end it and Biden got it done.
    No he hasn’t. This is not over yet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931
    (FPT)
    ydoethur said:

    @Leon

    Run of worst US Presidents:

    1865 Andrew Jackson
    1869 Ulysses S. Grant
    1877 Rutherford B. Hayes
    1881 James Garfield (for three months)
    1881 Chester Arthur

    Now how’s that for a shit run of crooks, racists and weirdos? With the very brief exception of Garfield before his assassination.

    Millard Fillmore
    Franklin Pierce
    James Buchanan

    Arguably victims of their times, but nonetheless there’s a good case to rate them as the three worst in US history.
    And for three in succession, no contest.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
    I did have a good chuckle though at the surreal suggestion Trump was a better president than Biden because he was so incompetent he couldn’t organise a coup properly.

    Had he been able to I probably wouldn’t have been laughing…

    I’m also amazed, given his pathetic response to North Korea and indeed the Taleban breaking every clause every clause of the deals he brokered with them before the ink was even dry that they think he would have been more feared than Biden.

    None of which in any way excuses the quite extraordinary incompetence of the Biden administration over the last month, given they were elected to clear up the mess not make it worse.
    They are particularly exposed because foreign affairs is almost the only arena in which the president can take a decision, as against take a position and hope that others will decide and act.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,893

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    A boundary fence between Greece and Turkey, along part of Greece's eastern border.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58289893

    Build a wall?????
    It's a bloody big fence, though in a classical style.


    My top tip: Be suspicious if a large wooden horse appears on the other side.
    That did make me LOL. Thank you
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,006
    Morning all! Biden is toast, but as I never expected him to be more than a caretaker that isn't a surprise. The challenge for America is simple. Too many of the GOP voters are dumb and like being lied to.

    We know for a fact that Trump signed a deal to hand Afghanistan over to the Taliban by May this year, yet GOP cheerleaders like HYUFD still point to the % under Taliban rule under Trump and what it is now and try to claim that Biden "lost Afghanistan".

    Watch Trump come back. Yes it was Trump's idea and Trump signed the deal and Trump was boasting just weeks ago that he should get all the credit and now they have deleted all the social media of this. Morons will believe the lie that Trump didn't do it and its all Biden.

    However doddering and decrepit President Biden is (and he really is) the answer is not to re-elect President doddering and decrepit and psychotic.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    Flight watch. RAF Globemaster heading north over Pakistan to the Afghan border.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931
    70% of Mississippi poison control center calls now are side effects from ivermectin
    https://twitter.com/hyperplanes/status/1428864144128741383
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    A must-read on the inner workings of government by @Steven_Swinford and @hzeffman, if only for the unintentional comedy of (unnamed) Tory MPs leaping to Raab’s defence as some sort of foreign policy brainbox

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-turn-on-dominic-raab-after-a-week-of-chaos-and-carnage-2ww6m5hnl https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1428981270407753729/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    edited August 21
    ..
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,144

    Morning all! Biden is toast, but as I never expected him to be more than a caretaker that isn't a surprise. The challenge for America is simple. Too many of the GOP voters are dumb and like being lied to.

    We know for a fact that Trump signed a deal to hand Afghanistan over to the Taliban by May this year, yet GOP cheerleaders like HYUFD still point to the % under Taliban rule under Trump and what it is now and try to claim that Biden "lost Afghanistan".

    Watch Trump come back. Yes it was Trump's idea and Trump signed the deal and Trump was boasting just weeks ago that he should get all the credit and now they have deleted all the social media of this. Morons will believe the lie that Trump didn't do it and its all Biden.

    However doddering and decrepit President Biden is (and he really is) the answer is not to re-elect President doddering and decrepit and psychotic.

    I still think that if there are no Americans being killed in Afghanistan that will weigh heavier with the American electorate at the next election than the mess that has been made.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,461
    Nigelb said:

    70% of Mississippi poison control center calls now are side effects from ivermectin
    https://twitter.com/hyperplanes/status/1428864144128741383

    Sounds like they are taking the animal version from livestock suppliers.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 854
    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    edited August 21
    The unopposed appointment of Alex Cole-Hamilton MSP as new leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats was about item no 15 on the news yesterday. Talk about picking a bad day for that announcement! Totally drowned out by Afghanistan, the SNP/Green government launch and lots of other things. The brief clip of his annoying pseudo-oration was a real stinker.

    For a small party, the SLDs used to have a lot of talent. These days they are in the same boat as Scottish Labour: a talent desert.

    Funnily enough, Tory leader Douglas Ross is fast overtaking SLab MP Ian Murray as the sanest and most persuasive Unionist spokesperson. Never thought I’d see that!

    By far the best and most credible recovery for the Unionists would be a resurgence of the old coalition pals SLab and SLD. Judging by their two new leaders that ain’t happening any time soon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931

    Morning all! Biden is toast, but as I never expected him to be more than a caretaker that isn't a surprise. The challenge for America is simple. Too many of the GOP voters are dumb and like being lied to.

    We know for a fact that Trump signed a deal to hand Afghanistan over to the Taliban by May this year, yet GOP cheerleaders like HYUFD still point to the % under Taliban rule under Trump and what it is now and try to claim that Biden "lost Afghanistan".

    Watch Trump come back. Yes it was Trump's idea and Trump signed the deal and Trump was boasting just weeks ago that he should get all the credit and now they have deleted all the social media of this. Morons will believe the lie that Trump didn't do it and its all Biden.

    However doddering and decrepit President Biden is (and he really is) the answer is not to re-elect President doddering and decrepit and psychotic.

    I still think that if there are no Americans being killed in Afghanistan that will weigh heavier with the American electorate at the next election than the mess that has been made.
    I think it’s way too early to judge the outcome of this.
    The temporary humiliation could become permanent, or it could be almost forgotten within six months.

    A similar consideration applies to the US reliability as an ally - though that remains within the administration’s control, whereas what happens next in Afghanistan obviously doesn’t.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931

    Nigelb said:

    70% of Mississippi poison control center calls now are side effects from ivermectin
    https://twitter.com/hyperplanes/status/1428864144128741383

    Sounds like they are taking the animal version from livestock suppliers.
    Still, will have seriously fncked with any worms they might have.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,738
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    One wonders how much Australian and Kiwi snobbery to the vaccines will erode when they start seeing thousands of deaths even with lockdowns.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Tragic incompetence at the top in both countries. They should have used the time they’d bought to vaccinate their populations. There will be very severe consequences.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,714
    IanB2 said:

    Britain’s MPs this week uttered one long howl of anguish over Afghanistan. Their immediate targets were Joe Biden and Boris Johnson, politicians who just happened to be on the watch when Kabul’s pack of cards collapsed. But their real concern was that a collective 20-year experiment in “exporting western values” to Afghanistan had fallen into chaos. MPs wanted someone other than themselves to blame. A politician is never so angry as when proved wrong.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/west-nation-building-fantasy-afghanistan-boris-johnson



    We seldom agree but this is right. There is a profound conflict between western values and those espoused by the Taliban et al. It's clear that in Afghanistan, Pakistan and some African countries there appears to be little common ground and more 'Crusades' are not the answer. I'm not sure how importing large numbers of migrants to the west [beyond those to whom a direct debt is owed] from these places helps, now that the experiment of 'exporting' western values has failed.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,006

    The unopposed appointment of Alex Cole-Hamilton MSP as new leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats was about item no 15 on the news yesterday. Talk about picking a bad day for that announcement! Totally drowned out by Afghanistan, the SNP/Green government launch and lots of other things. The brief clip of his annoying pseudo-oration was a real stinker.

    For a small party, the SLDs used to have a lot of talent. These days they are in the same boat as Scottish Labour: a talent desert.

    Funnily enough, Tory leader Douglas Ross is fast overtaking SLab MP Ian Murray as the sanest and most persuasive Unionist spokesperson. Never thought I’d see that!

    By far the best and most credible recovery for the Unionists would be a resurgence of the old coalition pals SLab and SLD. Judging by their two new leaders that ain’t happening any time soon.

    It will be interesting to see how the all new Starmer Labour party copes with such ideas. Labour were happy with the idea of the LibDems propping Labour up but having then propped the Tories up it was Consternation and Uproar.

    Supposedly Labour have moved towards support for proportionate voting systems. If they have then they will have to accept the idea of coalitions and some of those won't involve Labour. Are they grown ups now or illogical partisan hacks?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,637
    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
    I did have a good chuckle though at the surreal suggestion Trump was a better president than Biden because he was so incompetent he couldn’t organise a coup properly.

    Had he been able to I probably wouldn’t have been laughing…

    I’m also amazed, given his pathetic response to North Korea and indeed the Taleban breaking every clause every clause of the deals he brokered with them before the ink was even dry that they think he would have been more feared than Biden.

    None of which in any way excuses the quite extraordinary incompetence of the Biden administration over the last month, given they were elected to clear up the mess not make it worse.
    A great précis of the story so far.

    I am amazed that so many on PB seem to think that Biden's enormous fiasco wipes the Trump slate clean.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 854
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
    Being somebody who actually knows what they're talking about in the area of defence I would ask you what you think that the UK should (and, perhaps more importantly,) should not be aspiring to do in future, but as I said the other evening there's probably no point. The armed forces, along with almost everything else, are an irrelevance compared to the overarching need to pump up house prices and ensure inflation-busting pension increases every year.

    It feels like those of us in middle age can do little but live out our lives, and hope that everything doesn't go to Hell in a handcart until after we are safely dead. I pity the young.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,505
    Scott_xP said:

    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


    Replace the word jobs with holidays.

    Would be much funnier.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,927

    Flight watch. RAF Globemaster heading north over Pakistan to the Afghan border.

    There’s also a Yank Globemaster just left Kabul, heading south, most likely for Qatar.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,455
    S
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    Zero Covid fanatics are as dangerous, in their own way, as anti vaxxers. I agree with everything you have written.

    I’ve been following this guy in twitter since March last year before covid got here and what I saw terrified me. Iran, which has a pretty decent healthcare regime, is now in its fifth wave. Without austere lockdowns this will be NZ and Aus.

    https://claireberlinski.substack.com/p/irans-battle-with-the-fifth-wave
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,461

    Morning all! Biden is toast, but as I never expected him to be more than a caretaker that isn't a surprise. The challenge for America is simple. Too many of the GOP voters are dumb and like being lied to.

    We know for a fact that Trump signed a deal to hand Afghanistan over to the Taliban by May this year, yet GOP cheerleaders like HYUFD still point to the % under Taliban rule under Trump and what it is now and try to claim that Biden "lost Afghanistan".

    Watch Trump come back. Yes it was Trump's idea and Trump signed the deal and Trump was boasting just weeks ago that he should get all the credit and now they have deleted all the social media of this. Morons will believe the lie that Trump didn't do it and its all Biden.

    However doddering and decrepit President Biden is (and he really is) the answer is not to re-elect President doddering and decrepit and psychotic.

    I still think that if there are no Americans being killed in Afghanistan that will weigh heavier with the American electorate at the next election than the mess that has been made.
    Yep. Biden has made that calculation.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    moonshine said:

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    One wonders how much Australian and Kiwi snobbery to the vaccines will erode when they start seeing thousands of deaths even with lockdowns.
    They must be in total panic mode right now. Imagine having an elderly or unfit/unwell member of the family who is unvaccinated. Even young and fit people don’t cope very well with the Delta variant.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523
    Scott_xP said:

    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19

    It's a good thing we didn't torch our relationships with our nearest neighbours and allies to try and suck up to the US instead.

    Oh, wait...
    The US is still less likely to screw over the UK than the EU.

    Exhibit A: Coronavirus vaccine
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,179
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:
    Yes, she is good at it and knows her audience.

    Though could Raabs defenders cite a few examples of his brilliance in the role of Foreign Secretary? A list of his successes perhaps?
    Not been confirmed yet but he may have negotiated a substantial discount on a £40k holiday.
    So there’s that.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,714

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Tragic incompetence at the top in both countries. They should have used the time they’d bought to vaccinate their populations. There will be very severe consequences.
    It's hard to work out why they were not able to do that - we are not talking about poor countries with huge populations. Europe has done a much better job in that respect at least.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,455

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    People won’t have missed it as much as not want to hear it as it runs contrary to their narrative.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,179
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    I'm sure this has been answered and explained before but why are Auz/NZ so far behind with their vaccination programme?

    They are very advanced Western countries and there's only 30 million of them.
    NZ had AZ ordered but junked it for PFE when the noise was at its peak. But we’re Kate to order PFE

    Au had CSL as a shot on goal but it didn’t work. Then CSl sub-licensed AZ fir local manufacturing - but there is a very active anti bad movement in Au
    Probably needs a proofread that one. Although they are probably anti-bad in Australia TBF.
    Charles has been gagged and tied, and is posting with his toes.
    Well, we hope it’s his toes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,477
    moonshine said:

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    One wonders how much Australian and Kiwi snobbery to the vaccines will erode when they start seeing thousands of deaths even with lockdowns.
    It’s an inter question that ought to apply here too, in respect of the vaccine status of most icu patients. I do wonder if some are having second thoughts.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looked at like that, the question is surely not whether Raab should go, but whether he is not in fact perfectly suited to his role – embodying so many of the virtues of something he’s professionally obliged to call “global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked – and defending itself on the basis that not much it does matters anyway. Far from being an aberration, Dominic Raab might be the right man for the job – an out-of-office foreign secretary for an out-of-office country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-global-britain


    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:
    Yes, she is good at it and knows her audience.

    Though could Raabs defenders cite a few examples of his brilliance in the role of Foreign Secretary? A list of his successes perhaps?
    Not been confirmed yet but he may have negotiated a substantial discount on a £40k holiday.
    So there’s that.
    - “”global Britain”. Incompetent, negligent, isolated, increasingly disliked”

    Spot on.

    No wonder they would prefer to send in the tanks than let Scots freely express their preference at the ballot box.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,714
    edited August 21

    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
    I did have a good chuckle though at the surreal suggestion Trump was a better president than Biden because he was so incompetent he couldn’t organise a coup properly.

    Had he been able to I probably wouldn’t have been laughing…

    I’m also amazed, given his pathetic response to North Korea and indeed the Taleban breaking every clause every clause of the deals he brokered with them before the ink was even dry that they think he would have been more feared than Biden.

    None of which in any way excuses the quite extraordinary incompetence of the Biden administration over the last month, given they were elected to clear up the mess not make it worse.
    A great précis of the story so far.

    I am amazed that so many on PB seem to think that Biden's enormous fiasco wipes the Trump slate clean.
    It doesn't.The last decade has seen the giant of the western world for so many years become a pygmy. Heaven knows what the consequences will be. I'm unclear that Europe is at all either able or willing to step up to the plate and fearful that Vlad almost certainly knows this. LL&E, Ukraine & maybe some of the Balkan states cannot be comfortable places to live right now.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,893
    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
    Being somebody who actually knows what they're talking about in the area of defence I would ask you what you think that the UK should (and, perhaps more importantly,) should not be aspiring to do in future
    I wrote a header about it a few years ago. See the last part 'Do Less With More'.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/04/09/how-labour-need-to-stop-worrying-and-learn-to-love-the-bomb/
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,438
    felix said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Tragic incompetence at the top in both countries. They should have used the time they’d bought to vaccinate their populations. There will be very severe consequences.
    It's hard to work out why they were not able to do that - we are not talking about poor countries with huge populations. Europe has done a much better job in that respect at least.
    They wanted a free ride on the rest of the world getting herd immunity.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,231
    Scott_xP said:

    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19

    It's a good thing we didn't torch our relationships with our nearest neighbours and allies to try and suck up to the US instead.

    Oh, wait...
    Biden betrayed France, Germany and all the allies

    We do not have to be in the EU to have strong defence ties with France and Germany and Nato
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279

    moonshine said:

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    One wonders how much Australian and Kiwi snobbery to the vaccines will erode when they start seeing thousands of deaths even with lockdowns.
    It’s an interesting question that ought to apply here too, in respect of the vaccine status of most icu patients. I do wonder if some are having second thoughts.
    Far too late. Feel sorry for them, especially if their unvaccinated status was involuntary.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,927
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    Joe is beginning to how his age.

    A touch tetchy at times. As if someone had disturbed his midday nap.

    The President knows he's been caught red-handed; there is no defence and hardly any mitigation.
    I did have a good chuckle though at the surreal suggestion Trump was a better president than Biden because he was so incompetent he couldn’t organise a coup properly.

    Had he been able to I probably wouldn’t have been laughing…

    I’m also amazed, given his pathetic response to North Korea and indeed the Taleban breaking every clause every clause of the deals he brokered with them before the ink was even dry that they think he would have been more feared than Biden.

    None of which in any way excuses the quite extraordinary incompetence of the Biden administration over the last month, given they were elected to clear up the mess not make it worse.
    A great précis of the story so far.

    I am amazed that so many on PB seem to think that Biden's enormous fiasco wipes the Trump slate clean.
    It doesn't.The last decade has seen the giant of the western world for so many years become a pygmy. Heaven knows what the consequences will be. I'm unclear that Europe is at all either able or willing to step up to the plate and fearful that Vlad almost certainly knows this. LL&E, Ukraine & maybe some of the Balkan states cannot be comfortable places to live right now.
    Next week marks 30 years of independence for Ukraine, it’s going to be a massive event there and it’s not inconceivable that Putin might do something stupid to crash the party. Thankfully my wife got out of there yesterday, is back home now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,179
    Who’s obsessed with gender ishoos again?

    https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1428988473764110337?s=21
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    Scott_xP said:

    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19

    It's a good thing we didn't torch our relationships with our nearest neighbours and allies to try and suck up to the US instead.

    Oh, wait...
    That was always going to be a losing strategy.

    The tragedy of modern England is that she knows not who her friends are.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    Is that former SLab MP Tom Harris? What a chump that man was. Did he ever jump ship to the Tories?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,231
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    People won’t have missed it as much as not want to hear it as it runs contrary to their narrative.
    In normal circumstances this leak would be widely reported on the media but it does not fit in with their agenda as it demonstrates just how much the allies have been betrayed and moves the story on from Raab's missed phone call

    And for the benefit of doubt, I cannot think of anything of note that Raab has done as Foreign Secretary
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,233
    Scott_xP said:

    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19

    It's a good thing we didn't torch our relationships with our nearest neighbours and allies to try and suck up to the US instead.

    Oh, wait...
    Worse than that. There are those who celebrate recent attempts by the UK government to go back on committments it has only just made. "Realpolitik". "How are they going to make us?" "It's the will of the British people, and that's all that matters".

    It's always happened, and always will happen. That doesn't make it right, but it should make it unshocking.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523
    After 9/11, invading Afghanistan gave the US what it needed most: time. 20 years on, it has a homeland that is (pretty much) secure. It has had the opportunity and the space and the money to build intelligence structures that can keep the domestic US safe. Where Biden - and the wider political system - will be in trouble is after all that cost, if turns out that al Qaeda or whoever can still pierce their shield.

    I do worry that the 20th anniversary is the moment for long-planned spectaculars to be unleashed. Biden will be at the same point in his stint as President as George W Bush - but with no appetite for the foreign interventions after 9/11. And a President with fewer faculties.

    America in a box, tight within its own borders. That would be a big win for al Qaeda.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,927
    edited August 21
    Dura_Ace said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
    Being somebody who actually knows what they're talking about in the area of defence I would ask you what you think that the UK should (and, perhaps more importantly,) should not be aspiring to do in future
    I wrote a header about it a few years ago. See the last part 'Do Less With More'.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/04/09/how-labour-need-to-stop-worrying-and-learn-to-love-the-bomb/
    That’s a very well written piece, eloquently argued.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 854
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain’s MPs this week uttered one long howl of anguish over Afghanistan. Their immediate targets were Joe Biden and Boris Johnson, politicians who just happened to be on the watch when Kabul’s pack of cards collapsed. But their real concern was that a collective 20-year experiment in “exporting western values” to Afghanistan had fallen into chaos. MPs wanted someone other than themselves to blame. A politician is never so angry as when proved wrong.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/west-nation-building-fantasy-afghanistan-boris-johnson

    We seldom agree but this is right. There is a profound conflict between western values and those espoused by the Taliban et al. It's clear that in Afghanistan, Pakistan and some African countries there appears to be little common ground and more 'Crusades' are not the answer. I'm not sure how importing large numbers of migrants to the west [beyond those to whom a direct debt is owed] from these places helps, now that the experiment of 'exporting' western values has failed.
    There's a substantial cohort of people in the Western world who believe all of the following:

    *Blairite "Liberal interventionism" must be rejected: it is imperialist, colonialist and war is not the answer
    *We should not attempt to impose our values on other cultures
    *Misogyny, homophobia and all kinds of other -phobias and -isms are evil and must be rejected
    *Borders are discriminatory and wicked: everyone who wants to come and live here should be allowed in with no questions asked

    The fact that some of these beliefs are in direct contradiction with one another doesn't trouble them at all.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,477

    moonshine said:

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    One wonders how much Australian and Kiwi snobbery to the vaccines will erode when they start seeing thousands of deaths even with lockdowns.
    It’s an interesting question that ought to apply here too, in respect of the vaccine status of most icu patients. I do wonder if some are having second thoughts.
    Far too late. Feel sorry for them, especially if their unvaccinated status was involuntary.
    Absolutely. Especially any unvaccinated not by their own choice. I just wonder if some are now rethinking (talking about those not unwell yet).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465

    We do not have to be in the EU to have strong defence ties with France and Germany and Nato

    That may be true in the long term, but not while BoZo and his Brexit chums are in charge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,451

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    People won’t have missed it as much as not want to hear it as it runs contrary to their narrative.
    In normal circumstances this leak would be widely reported on the media but it does not fit in with their agenda as it demonstrates just how much the allies have been betrayed and moves the story on from Raab's missed phone call

    And for the benefit of doubt, I cannot think of anything of note that Raab has done as Foreign Secretary
    He demonstrated successful adult education by learning about the significance of Dover, didn't he?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931
    Taz said:

    S

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    Zero Covid fanatics are as dangerous, in their own way, as anti vaxxers. I agree with everything you have written.

    I’ve been following this guy in twitter since March last year before covid got here and what I saw terrified me. Iran, which has a pretty decent healthcare regime, is now in its fifth wave. Without austere lockdowns this will be NZ and Aus.

    https://claireberlinski.substack.com/p/irans-battle-with-the-fifth-wave
    Remarkable that they’ve spent over $700m importing Remdesivir, and yet have, for political reasons, refused to buy vaccines from the west.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 733
    edited August 21
    It appears the Taliban cordon around KBL airport is being increasingly done by the Haqqani network who appear to be working to something resembling a plan on who and what they are letting through but that cordon is tightening for anyone trying to get in. Many of those who are mean't, on paper, to be eligible arent getting in, despite the talk from Biden.

    By many at this time, read thousands.

  • TazTaz Posts: 2,455
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    S

    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    AlistairM said:

    Overnight Australia has reported over 800 Covid cases. In the entire pandemic they had never gone above 700 before. It was 600ish yesterday. Vast majority of cases are around Sydney. Admission from NSW that Delta is now uncontrollable.

    NZ had 21 cases too, almost doubling from the day before. They are going to struggle.to contain Delta now too.

    Likely to be a very difficult few months for them.

    Just under a fifth of New Zealander’s are double jabbed which is a pitiful rate really.

    Delta has a chance of taking hold in New Zealand, I hope it doesn’t.

    So much for Ardens inspirational leadership.
    NSW is going to be in lockdown at least for the remainder of the year, and probably well into 2022 based on the hitherto pitiful state of their vaccine rollout. The disease is beyond control but obviously they daren't just let it rip, or it'll go through the entire population like crap through a goose, the hospitals will all fall over and they'll suffer a much worse fatality rate than we had in January.

    NZ is going to be in a similar condition of permalockdown and screwed as well if they can't crush Delta quickly and completely. They seem to be very good at managing strict lockdowns and contact tracing, so I think they're in with a shout, but this variant is a fearsome opponent. We'll probably know in a week or two.

    Regardless, at least Delta means that governments everywhere can dispense, once and for all, with the notion that Zero Covid is a viable long-term strategy. Even the most remote Pacific island nations can't lock it out forever, unless they totally isolate themselves from all contact with the outside world forever. This virus is so infectious and so pervasive that everybody is going to catch it eventually.
    Zero Covid fanatics are as dangerous, in their own way, as anti vaxxers. I agree with everything you have written.

    I’ve been following this guy in twitter since March last year before covid got here and what I saw terrified me. Iran, which has a pretty decent healthcare regime, is now in its fifth wave. Without austere lockdowns this will be NZ and Aus.

    https://claireberlinski.substack.com/p/irans-battle-with-the-fifth-wave
    Remarkable that they’ve spent over $700m importing Remdesivir, and yet have, for political reasons, refused to buy vaccines from the west.
    It’s a staggering decision which has cost many lives in Iran. This is their fifth wave. It’s staggering.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,451
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
    Being somebody who actually knows what they're talking about in the area of defence I would ask you what you think that the UK should (and, perhaps more importantly,) should not be aspiring to do in future
    I wrote a header about it a few years ago. See the last part 'Do Less With More'.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/04/09/how-labour-need-to-stop-worrying-and-learn-to-love-the-bomb/
    That’s a very well written piece, eloquently argued.
    It is indeed. Its implication is that the UK should go back to the old verities of British strategy in home waters and stop trying to refight the wars of empire (as, indeed, in Afghanistan), now there is no empire.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279

    The unopposed appointment of Alex Cole-Hamilton MSP as new leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats was about item no 15 on the news yesterday. Talk about picking a bad day for that announcement! Totally drowned out by Afghanistan, the SNP/Green government launch and lots of other things. The brief clip of his annoying pseudo-oration was a real stinker.

    For a small party, the SLDs used to have a lot of talent. These days they are in the same boat as Scottish Labour: a talent desert.

    Funnily enough, Tory leader Douglas Ross is fast overtaking SLab MP Ian Murray as the sanest and most persuasive Unionist spokesperson. Never thought I’d see that!

    By far the best and most credible recovery for the Unionists would be a resurgence of the old coalition pals SLab and SLD. Judging by their two new leaders that ain’t happening any time soon.

    It will be interesting to see how the all new Starmer Labour party copes with such ideas. Labour were happy with the idea of the LibDems propping Labour up but having then propped the Tories up it was Consternation and Uproar.

    Supposedly Labour have moved towards support for proportionate voting systems. If they have then they will have to accept the idea of coalitions and some of those won't involve Labour. Are they grown ups now or illogical partisan hacks?
    My guesstimate:

    Labour Party in England
    40% grown ups
    20% illogical partisan hacks
    40% Citizen Smiths

    Scottish Labour
    20% grown ups
    60% illogical partisan hacks
    10% Citizen Smiths
    10% Orange Lodge

    Welsh Labour
    50% grown ups
    30% illogical partisan hacks
    10% Citizen Smiths
    10% last of the true Britons
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,451
    Dura_Ace said:



    We do not have to be in the EU to have strong defence ties with France and Germany and Nato

    The UK certainly has and can have defence ties with France and Germany but European defence cooperation is shifting from NATO to PESCO and the UK is always going to be outside that until they rejoin.

    One of the few things the leavers didn't lie about was the imminence and importance of the 'EU Army'. The UK knew it was coming, knew it would be the focus of European defence and decided to have nothing to do with it. The UK also left the European Defence Agency so 'strong defence ties' are going to be an uphill slog from here.

    Still, you got the freedom to impose roaming charges. 🇬🇧👊
    And so did the non-British Europeans, roaming charges I mean.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,893
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    America is not a reliable ally, and the world has just become a less safe place.
    To be honest this news is shocking and poses profound questions for the west
    It can't be a surprise; you've had enough warning in the form of Obama's Pacific pivot and Trump's frank disinterest. Macron told us all NATO was brain dead two years ago but nobody listened.
    Being somebody who actually knows what they're talking about in the area of defence I would ask you what you think that the UK should (and, perhaps more importantly,) should not be aspiring to do in future
    I wrote a header about it a few years ago. See the last part 'Do Less With More'.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/04/09/how-labour-need-to-stop-worrying-and-learn-to-love-the-bomb/
    That’s a very well written piece, eloquently argued.
    Thanks. The prediction of the next GE being in 2022 was in off the black though!
This discussion has been closed.