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MIND THE GAP: HOW LONG WILL BORIS JOHNSON SERVE AS PRIME MINISTER? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 1 in General
imageMIND THE GAP: HOW LONG WILL BORIS JOHNSON SERVE AS PRIME MINISTER? – politicalbetting.com

Source: Wikipedia – data tables can be viewed here.

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    edited August 1
    OT Olympics.

    Congratulations to BMX gold medallist Charlotte Worthington btw.
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1421676734664036357

    That is two gold medals for British women in BMX, which is why SPotY betting is not straightforward.

    Golf: letting bets run has developed badly. Xander Schauffele has extended his lead and "local hero" Hideki Matsuyama has dropped back.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing. On the other hand, it probably will be his decision, and he will not be forced out.

    Boris does seem to be enjoying the job. Money might be a problem but until the rest of the world opens up and he can easily travel to and from high-paying gigs in the United States in particular but perhaps also the Far East, there is not much that can be done about it, and even with a second child on the way (congratulations to Carrie and Boris) that probably remains the case. Can a donor pay for childcare? No school fees yet, at least!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004
    Interesting thread. I think he might stay for a while, he would want a legacy that isn’t defined primarily by the pandemic. He wants to see progress in the leveling-up agenda.

    Against that, is that the party will be ruthless if they think the next election is in doubt, and the PM himself is struggling to get by on his ministerial salary - he’s an ex-wife and school fees to pay, and a new wife with expensive tastes.

    I guess he needs to find a publisher willing to advance him a million or two up front, for a book to be written several years from now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004
    Is there a book running, on how many minutes delayed the BBC’s coverage of the 100m final this afternoon is going to be?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004
    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    In his mind, he didn’t lose!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread. I think he might stay for a while, he would want a legacy that isn’t defined primarily by the pandemic. He wants to see progress in the leveling-up agenda.

    Against that, is that the party will be ruthless if they think the next election is in doubt, and the PM himself is struggling to get by on his ministerial salary - he’s an ex-wife and school fees to pay, and a new wife with expensive tastes.

    I guess he needs to find a publisher willing to advance him a million or two up front, for a book to be written several years from now.

    Question is whether such an advance would be permissible now, Boris being such a stickler for the rules.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,248
    Surprised you included the Wellington caretaker ministry of 1834 but not the Earl of Bath’s ministry in 1748.

    After all, Bath did actually accept office, unlike Wellington who specifically refused it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,248
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    In his mind, he didn’t lose!
    A ridiculous statement.

    As if Donald Trump had a mind.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    ydoethur said:

    Surprised you included the Wellington caretaker ministry of 1834 but not the Earl of Bath’s ministry in 1748.

    After all, Bath did actually accept office, unlike Wellington who specifically refused it.

    Take it up with Wikipedia!

    One thing I did do differently was to count the first and last days as half days.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,248
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surprised you included the Wellington caretaker ministry of 1834 but not the Earl of Bath’s ministry in 1748.

    After all, Bath did actually accept office, unlike Wellington who specifically refused it.

    Take it up with Wikipedia!

    One thing I did do differently was to count the first and last days as half days.
    One of the reasons I double-check Wikipedia is because it is so frequently wrong. For example, at the moment it is still claiming Richard III was the rightful king and that there is an ongoing debate about whether he murdered his nephews. Good luck to anyone who tries to change that to reflect the facts.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    Retiring at the top of his game!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Nice plot, btw.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,248
    Incidentally, I don’t think we’ve covered this:

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trump-urged-justice-dept-overturn-vote-results-house-panel-chair-2021-07-30/

    I’m not sure Trump running in 2024 is value.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surprised you included the Wellington caretaker ministry of 1834 but not the Earl of Bath’s ministry in 1748.

    After all, Bath did actually accept office, unlike Wellington who specifically refused it.

    Take it up with Wikipedia!

    One thing I did do differently was to count the first and last days as half days.
    One of the reasons I double-check Wikipedia is because it is so frequently wrong. For example, at the moment it is still claiming Richard III was the rightful king and that there is an ongoing debate about whether he murdered his nephews. Good luck to anyone who tries to change that to reflect the facts.
    As a statistician, one thing I’ve learnt is that people care an awful lot about the edges. I knew there would be an argument about who is and who isn’t included in the list, but you won’t be surprised to know I don’t really care about that.

    But I do take your point about things like history and politics.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Odd goings-on in the Olympic boxing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    This is a man who regularly hides himself away - in a fridge, upstairs with the lights off when IDS came to call….
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    Retiring at the top of his game!
    Needs to go in the next 12 months in that case.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    South Africa’s Slovakia’s Rory Sabbatini sets the clubhouse lead at -17.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    Gary Neville being talked about as a future Mayor of Greater Manchester:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9847871/Left-wing-football-pundit-Gary-Neville-groomed-political-career-Sir-Keir-Starmer.html

    Stranger things have happened.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: will start hunting for bets soon.

    As an aside, started playing Valkyria Chronicles 4 (Japanese game set in 'not Europe') and amused that the land of Edinburgh is renowned for providing the best troops of the Federation and taking the lead in the Second Europan [no typo] War against the Empire, who are just a little bit Nazi-ish.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    Retiring at the top of his game!
    Needs to go in the next 12 months in that case.
    Yes, and I think he might.

    Boris has the status, and courtesy of the tax-payer enjoys a lifestyle far above what he could afford.

    But on the other hand, and without rehashing earlier comments, there is no programme of Borisism he needs to complete. He might be identified with levelling up but the idea and drive probably came from Dominic Cummings. Brexit is done as a fact, and the details of protracted negotiations are beyond the Prime Minister. Covid has been tamed by vaccines, where again Boris can claim some credit. What else is there to achieve?

    Then there is age. Boris is already significantly older than either Cameron or Blair when they left office, although the example of his own father means Boris might not fear the grim reaper any time soon.

    Will Boris cut and run? The FTPA is hardly a bar – we have already had two early general elections – and is to be dismantled in any case. But however bad Starmer does in the opinion polls, Boris will surely be aware of Theresa May having misplaced a polling lead of ten points during the 2017 campaign.

    So yes, I still expect Boris to retire before the next election, though not sure enough to rush down to Corals.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Golf. Is notorious wobbler Xander Schauffele about to throw away his lead?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    For Ms Cyclefree. Thank you for the solitary thread you.managed to find that wasn't anti Boris or anti Govt. . Good research.. must have taken you some time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    Betting Post

    F1: backed Bottas each way to win at 9 (third the odds top two).

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/08/hungary-pre-race-2021.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    Good Morning folks. Some at least sun this morning and, indeed, yesterday. Only 13.4 degC, though, and it ought to be warmer.

    As an ex-PM, Johnson will be able to earn considerably more than he does now, assuming he doesn't follow Trump down a ludicrous rabbit-hole of not really having lost. And he needs to since both he and his current wife both appear to have expensive tastes which need a considerable income to support, as well of course as his obligations to his various ex-wives and growing children.
    On the other hand, he does seem to enjoy, much of the time anyway, being a front-line politician. And, as such he's able to call upon friends and supporters to assist with his lifestyle.

    So I think he'll stay as long as he can, although if the polls turn against the Tories he might go. I don't think the details of whatever is proposed to replace the FTPA have been published, and IIRC they specifically repealed the legislation that required an election to be held no longer than five years after the previous one.

    Subject, as always, to a black swan appearing.

    Off topic, have we heard how the festivities in N Wales went?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    Good Morning folks. Some at least sun this morning and, indeed, yesterday. Only 13.4 degC, though, and it ought to be warmer.

    As an ex-PM, Johnson will be able to earn considerably more than he does now, assuming he doesn't follow Trump down a ludicrous rabbit-hole of not really having lost. And he needs to since both he and his current wife both appear to have expensive tastes which need a considerable income to support, as well of course as his obligations to his various ex-wives and growing children.
    On the other hand, he does seem to enjoy, much of the time anyway, being a front-line politician. And, as such he's able to call upon friends and supporters to assist with his lifestyle.

    So I think he'll stay as long as he can, although if the polls turn against the Tories he might go. I don't think the details of whatever is proposed to replace the FTPA have been published, and IIRC they specifically repealed the legislation that required an election to be held no longer than five years after the previous one.

    Subject, as always, to a black swan appearing.

    Off topic, have we heard how the festivities in N Wales went?

    The draft FTPA repeal bill has been published:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940027/Draft-Fixed-term-Parliaments-Act-Repeal-Bill.pdf
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    RobD said:

    Good Morning folks. Some at least sun this morning and, indeed, yesterday. Only 13.4 degC, though, and it ought to be warmer.

    As an ex-PM, Johnson will be able to earn considerably more than he does now, assuming he doesn't follow Trump down a ludicrous rabbit-hole of not really having lost. And he needs to since both he and his current wife both appear to have expensive tastes which need a considerable income to support, as well of course as his obligations to his various ex-wives and growing children.
    On the other hand, he does seem to enjoy, much of the time anyway, being a front-line politician. And, as such he's able to call upon friends and supporters to assist with his lifestyle.

    So I think he'll stay as long as he can, although if the polls turn against the Tories he might go. I don't think the details of whatever is proposed to replace the FTPA have been published, and IIRC they specifically repealed the legislation that required an election to be held no longer than five years after the previous one.

    Subject, as always, to a black swan appearing.

    Off topic, have we heard how the festivities in N Wales went?

    The draft FTPA repeal bill has been published:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940027/Draft-Fixed-term-Parliaments-Act-Repeal-Bill.pdf
    Obliged. And contains a provision relating to 'no longer than five years', I see.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    RobD said:

    Good Morning folks. Some at least sun this morning and, indeed, yesterday. Only 13.4 degC, though, and it ought to be warmer.

    As an ex-PM, Johnson will be able to earn considerably more than he does now, assuming he doesn't follow Trump down a ludicrous rabbit-hole of not really having lost. And he needs to since both he and his current wife both appear to have expensive tastes which need a considerable income to support, as well of course as his obligations to his various ex-wives and growing children.
    On the other hand, he does seem to enjoy, much of the time anyway, being a front-line politician. And, as such he's able to call upon friends and supporters to assist with his lifestyle.

    So I think he'll stay as long as he can, although if the polls turn against the Tories he might go. I don't think the details of whatever is proposed to replace the FTPA have been published, and IIRC they specifically repealed the legislation that required an election to be held no longer than five years after the previous one.

    Subject, as always, to a black swan appearing.

    Off topic, have we heard how the festivities in N Wales went?

    The draft FTPA repeal bill has been published:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940027/Draft-Fixed-term-Parliaments-Act-Repeal-Bill.pdf
    Obliged. And contains a provision relating to 'no longer than five years', I see.
    Yeah, would have been a rookie mistake for them to not have covered that. So I'm glad it's in there ;)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,368
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    Retiring at the top of his game!
    Needs to go in the next 12 months in that case.
    This is important to consider. Johnson is an expert at creating problems. He is dreadful at solving them.

    He is also about to run out of luck. Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Good Morning folks. Some at least sun this morning and, indeed, yesterday. Only 13.4 degC, though, and it ought to be warmer.

    As an ex-PM, Johnson will be able to earn considerably more than he does now, assuming he doesn't follow Trump down a ludicrous rabbit-hole of not really having lost. And he needs to since both he and his current wife both appear to have expensive tastes which need a considerable income to support, as well of course as his obligations to his various ex-wives and growing children.
    On the other hand, he does seem to enjoy, much of the time anyway, being a front-line politician. And, as such he's able to call upon friends and supporters to assist with his lifestyle.

    So I think he'll stay as long as he can, although if the polls turn against the Tories he might go. I don't think the details of whatever is proposed to replace the FTPA have been published, and IIRC they specifically repealed the legislation that required an election to be held no longer than five years after the previous one.

    Subject, as always, to a black swan appearing.

    Off topic, have we heard how the festivities in N Wales went?

    The draft FTPA repeal bill has been published:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940027/Draft-Fixed-term-Parliaments-Act-Repeal-Bill.pdf
    Obliged. And contains a provision relating to 'no longer than five years', I see.
    Yeah, would have been a rookie mistake for them to not have covered that. So I'm glad it's in there ;)
    Presumably that doesn’t apply to the current Parliament so the government couldn’t go beyond 2 May 2024?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Boris go? I doubt he will run again and risk losing.

    I seem to recall that being said about Donald Trump.
    Boris is a winner, since being elected President of the Oxford Union, through two different seats in the Commons, twice Mayor, then party leader and Prime Minister and most recently the general election. Winning defines Boris, and it is not just his ego but also his commercial standing.

    It is not the same as Donald Trump who won only a single election, and was deluded to think he could not lose.
    Running away because he might lose won’t do much for his street cred.
    Retiring at the top of his game!
    Needs to go in the next 12 months in that case.
    This is important to consider. Johnson is an expert at creating problems. He is dreadful at solving them.

    He is also about to run out of luck. Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.
    To be fair, Mr D, many of us have said, or hoped that was the case before. And he hasn't!

    Consoling myself with the thought that when one does run out of luck after en extended run the fall is often harder.
    Sadly, normal rules don't seem to apply to our current PM.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004
    edited August 1

    Betting Post

    F1: backed Bottas each way to win at 9 (third the odds top two).

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/08/hungary-pre-race-2021.html

    That’s a great bet, one of those each way bets that bookies frown on if you make lots of them!

    Verstappen 6 for the DNF also looks good value, there’s got to be a chance he gets a little hot-headed, and it’s almost certain that Bottas has been told not to give him an inch.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    I turn on for the Olympics and have to watch golf; pfft.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,495
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread. I think he might stay for a while, he would want a legacy that isn’t defined primarily by the pandemic. He wants to see progress in the leveling-up agenda.

    Against that, is that the party will be ruthless if they think the next election is in doubt, and the PM himself is struggling to get by on his ministerial salary - he’s an ex-wife and school fees to pay, and a new wife with expensive tastes.

    I guess he needs to find a publisher willing to advance him a million or two up front, for a book to be written several years from now.

    If he's planning to stay in office until he delivers on his Levelling Up agenda he might be giving Walpole a run for his money.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,368
    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920
    Being PM is always better than being a slightly richer ex-PM as there are lots of perks that only oligarch money could buy. He'll go when the tories finally topple him or he loses a GE, not a second sooner.

    I'd didn't know he'd bunned up Carrie Antoinette again. She'd better start putting buttstuff on the menu or otherwise homebody is just going to keep breeding.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    Mr. Sandpit, did consider that paired with Hamilton likewise at 7.5. Things is, the title chaps at 1st and 3rd so I imagine they'll be closer to one another than Bottas. I think it likelier one or both of them get taken out than the Finn gets involved (hope so, anyway).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    IanB2 said:

    I turn on for the Olympics and have to watch golf; pfft.

    Could be quite some playoff for Bronze!
  • isamisam Posts: 38,557
    Fair to say Boris has the fullest in tray of any PM, on a day to day basis? People said Brexit was the biggest thing to sort out in political history, and before that was done, along came Covid. I wonder what he’d be like in a non emergency.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread. I think he might stay for a while, he would want a legacy that isn’t defined primarily by the pandemic. He wants to see progress in the leveling-up agenda.

    Against that, is that the party will be ruthless if they think the next election is in doubt, and the PM himself is struggling to get by on his ministerial salary - he’s an ex-wife and school fees to pay, and a new wife with expensive tastes.

    I guess he needs to find a publisher willing to advance him a million or two up front, for a book to be written several years from now.

    Question is whether such an advance would be permissible now, Boris being such a stickler for the rules.
    It would be permissible so long as it was declared, but the publication of the exact amount might scare off the publisher in the first place. He’d have to pay tax at 47% on it too.

    Better might be a loan, but who would want to loan cash to someone who’s known to be terrible at managing his money? Does he own a house somewhere that he can mortgage?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,368
    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,864
    Dura_Ace said:

    Being PM is always better than being a slightly richer ex-PM as there are lots of perks that only oligarch money could buy. He'll go when the tories finally topple him or he loses a GE, not a second sooner.

    I'd didn't know he'd bunned up Carrie Antoinette again. She'd better start putting buttstuff on the menu or otherwise homebody is just going to keep breeding.

    I don't imagine the Marie Stopes revolution has completely passed her by. Maybe she just wants children, and thinks that given Johnson's form, if she wants them to be full siblings best to crack on with it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004
    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    There’s some almighty rows coming in the central banks of the top economies. Everyone’s borrowed and printed, then borrowed and printed some more during the pandemic.

    Inflation is coming, but everyone’s got used to interest rates at barely zero, and are going to convince themselves that the spike is temporary and we’ll be back to normal (for 2010-2019) in a couple of years, so they don’t need to rise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,522
    Social Distancing from the fairway on the 18th
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,368
    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    How about you don't think about it?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    I reckon someone’s a bit jealous of Boris.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    I don't expect that you would take it kindly if people started insulting the Sainted Nicola in the same way.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,864
    RobD said:

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    How about you don't think about it?
    Indeed.

    "Your mind will take the shape of what you frequently think about, for the human spirit is coloured by such impressions." - Marcus Aurelius.

    You have been warned.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    Mr. Z, that's in line with Buddhist thinking, with thoughts preceding speech preceding action.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,535

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    A very fine example of Boris Derangement Syndrome.

    And why this place is currently not worth visiting. I'll be back once Boris departs. Be about 8 years, I reckon.....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,121
    Best not to think about Shagger and Carrie at it. Or Shagger and the Saxophonist at it. Or Shagger and his next affair target at it. Its their kids I feel sorry for.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920
    edited August 1

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.




    Johnson on the vinegars must be quite something.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    Mr Mark,

    Boris Derangement Syndrome? Very good.

    I find him annoying, but it seems to work politically or him. That's what works up his enemies most.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,035
    Looks like more medals for sure and perhaps golds in the boxing and eventing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    Boris Derangement Syndrome? Very good.

    I find him annoying, but it seems to work politically or him. That's what works up his enemies most.

    I know. I dislike the arrogant way he goes about things, as well as his policies, but I live in hope that I'll see his fall.
    And I won't get that exercised about him.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,003

    OT Olympics.

    Congratulations to BMX gold medallist Charlotte Worthington btw.
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1421676734664036357

    That is two gold medals for British women in BMX, which is why SPotY betting is not straightforward.

    Golf: letting bets run has developed badly. Xander Schauffele has extended his lead and "local hero" Hideki Matsuyama has dropped back.

    It turns out Schauffele had a bit of home advantage as well, Japanese grandparents and a big family in Tokyo so you were on the right track! Also his Dad an ex Olympian and he had lived in Tokyo himself.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    Anyone have a good idea of how the UK does flu deaths?

    According to the ONS here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895233/Surveillance_Influenza_and_other_respiratory_viruses_in_the_UK_2019_to_2020_FINAL.pdf#page=54

    22,000 people died of flu in the bad 2017/18 season in England. But that's an estimate using the FluMOMO algorithm.
    Population adjusted that would be the equivalent to 2143 flu deaths in Scotland

    However National Records Scotland keeps a record of "Mentions flu of the Death certificate" exactly the same as they are currently doing "mentions Covid on the death certificate" and their record for the 2017/18 season was approx 500 flu deaths.

    That's a huge difference.

    This leads to a number of questions:
    Does anyone know why we use the FluMOMO numbers when reporting Flu deaths rather than death certificates?
    What does this mean for determining that Covid is now "no worse than Flu", if you use FluMOMO figures then you can have quite a lot of deaths and be similar, if you use death certificates than you need to more than quarter the number of deaths to be similar
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    This is an interesting thread for the fanbois.

    Yes, BoZo enrages his enemies, and engorges his fans, but he does nothing for the undecided...

    Dylin's humping, chain gangs litter-picking, inept elbow bumping, and The Saga of The Umbrella That Just Would Not Open.

    This full-length Mr Bean episode is Johnson's frantic reaction to polls finally beginning to catch up to his incompetence and venality.
    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1421445476231127040/photo/1

    It's precisely the moment the tide began to turn against Trump. He left 'safe' Republican areas vulnerable by performing to his fans. Those who liked him, loved it. Those who were already dubious, cringed. That was the time for flipping them. Johnson is going down the same route.
    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1421448413925810177
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,864

    Mr. Z, that's in line with Buddhist thinking, with thoughts preceding speech preceding action.

    And with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy which the NHS gives you for depression if you don't want meds.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    For reference there appears to be a rich vein of criticism of the flumomo method: https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-8 (not the only letter to the BMJ on the subject)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    When I see Johnson I see a liar, a fake, a grifter, an egoist and an incompetent. It puzzles me greatly that anyone can see anything in him at all that makes them believe he is fit to run a government. However, they do and so here we are. I just have to accept that I am in the minority. I suspect he will go on for longer than most people imagine. Being in charge - even if you are totally useless at it - is addictive.

    And he’s still better than Blair and Brown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,130
    There’s not much value in betting on length of term given the uncertainties, the time cash is tied up, and the relatively unattractive odds.
    Good header, though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,856
    Morning all. A nice sunny but cloudy day here at the centre of the universe.

    er ... 69th.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,003
    edited August 1
    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    Boris Derangement Syndrome? Very good.

    I find him annoying, but it seems to work politically or him. That's what works up his enemies most.

    Should Boris Derangement Syndrome be used for those who dislike him for what he stands for and end up calling him names, or for those who have spent their life backing good governance, fiscal conservativism, pro business, pro rule of law values yet now back a nationalist, authoritarian, anti-business and corrupt government because it is led by "Boris" and a blue rosette wins.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited August 1

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    A very fine example of Boris Derangement Syndrome.

    And why this place is currently not worth visiting. I'll be back once Boris departs. Be about 8 years, I reckon.....
    OGH is STILL smarting since the Lib Dems were reduced to a rump party with an insignificant leader or two. The deranged comments are something else and are akin to some of the shite that I hear is spouted on twitter. The more they spout, the more its hurting them. GOOD.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511

    When I see Johnson I see a liar, a fake, a grifter, an egoist and an incompetent. It puzzles me greatly that anyone can see anything in him at all that makes them believe he is fit to run a government. However, they do and so here we are. I just have to accept that I am in the minority. I suspect he will go on for longer than most people imagine. Being in charge - even if you are totally useless at it - is addictive.

    What the fanbois see in BoZo is that people like you and me think he is an incompetent fool.

    They don't like him especially, they like that we don't.

    Like Cummings on Brexit, he doesn't think it was a good idea, but he hated people who thought it was a bad idea.

    Spite is no basis to pick a government, but it is where we are.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Delighted to read that!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908
    TOPPING said:

    Looks like more medals for sure and perhaps golds in the boxing and eventing.

    The sailors are at or near the top of the standings in all six classes yet to complete, the results of which should trickle through over the next few days. With one bronze already in the bank from completed competition, the team as a whole look like they could come away with around five medals, and would be unlucky not to have at least one gold.

    At this stage, the overall British team performance is about level with Australia and Japan on total medals, but they have more golds and we have more silvers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,004

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad it went well!!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,460

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    A very fine example of Boris Derangement Syndrome.

    And why this place is currently not worth visiting. I'll be back once Boris departs. Be about 8 years, I reckon.....
    OGH is STILL smarting since the Lib Dems were reduced to a rump party with an insignificant leader or two. The deranged comments are something else and are akin to some of the shite that I hear is spouted on twitter. The more they spout, the more its hurting them. GOOD.
    I don't think you can hold OGH responsible for the comments you don't like here unless you think they are all from him?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    Mr. Observer, aye, but that deeply flawed line of thinking is hardly confined to one side of politics.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 553

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    Poor Carrie?
    Unlike Marina, who appeared to be a fairly decent type who foolishly married Boris, Carrie deserves everything she gets. She's a foul and horrible woman, who appears to have married Boris for one reason only - so she can be the power behind the throne.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,586
    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    Central banks will leave it too late, and when the inflationary spiral kicks off next year interest rates will have to rise.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722
    theProle said:

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    Poor Carrie?
    Unlike Marina, who appeared to be a fairly decent type who foolishly married Boris, Carrie deserves everything she gets. She's a foul and horrible woman, who appears to have married Boris for one reason only - so she can be the power behind the throne.
    A foul and horrible woman? On what are you basing this assessment?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    Boris Derangement Syndrome? Very good.

    I find him annoying, but it seems to work politically or him. That's what works up his enemies most.

    Should Boris Derangement Syndrome be used for those who dislike him for what he stands for and end up calling him names, or for those who have spent their life backing good governance, fiscal conservativism, pro business, pro rule of law values yet now back a nationalist, authoritarian, anti-business and corrupt government because it is led by "Boris" and a blue rosette wins.
    The former. Name calling really should stay in the playground.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    RobD said:

    Name calling really should stay in the playground.

    BoZo specialises in it
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    Name calling really should stay in the playground.

    BoZo specialises in it
    It does take one to know one
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,003
    RobD said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    Boris Derangement Syndrome? Very good.

    I find him annoying, but it seems to work politically or him. That's what works up his enemies most.

    Should Boris Derangement Syndrome be used for those who dislike him for what he stands for and end up calling him names, or for those who have spent their life backing good governance, fiscal conservativism, pro business, pro rule of law values yet now back a nationalist, authoritarian, anti-business and corrupt government because it is led by "Boris" and a blue rosette wins.
    The former. Name calling really should stay in the playground.
    Name calling may be a childish part of politics but it is not deranged.

    Affirming a belief in one set of principles your whole life and then espousing the opposite when a charismatic charlatan comes along might well be.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,856

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    One for a footballer.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722

    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    Name calling really should stay in the playground.

    BoZo specialises in it
    It does take one to know one
    He started it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    theProle said:

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    Poor Carrie?
    Unlike Marina, who appeared to be a fairly decent type who foolishly married Boris, Carrie deserves everything she gets. She's a foul and horrible woman, who appears to have married Boris for one reason only - so she can be the power behind the throne.
    Wasn't Marina simply the Carrie of her day? Boris was still married to Allegra when courting Marina. In both cases, the marriages were already breaking down. I've no idea if Carrie is "foul and horrible" but surely Boris has some agency.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,490
    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    That’s Guido for you. Not pleasant.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,587

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad your son's wedding went so well yesterday BigG
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,399
    F1: raining in Budapest.

    Five hours or so until the race starts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511
    Brexit created a raft of new diplomatic headaches the U.K. does not need in exchange for an anemic sort of new "freedom" https://trib.al/DdTXynb
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,606

    theProle said:

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    Poor Carrie?
    Unlike Marina, who appeared to be a fairly decent type who foolishly married Boris, Carrie deserves everything she gets. She's a foul and horrible woman, who appears to have married Boris for one reason only - so she can be the power behind the throne.
    Wasn't Marina simply the Carrie of her day? Boris was still married to Allegra when courting Marina. In both cases, the marriages were already breaking down. I've no idea if Carrie is "foul and horrible" but surely Boris has some agency.
    Reminds me of a guy I knew 25 years ago. Had two kids with the first wife, moved on to an affair then two kids with the next. Unbelievably a third wife came along and got to two kids... I would be nervous at that point...
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,909
    I accept that Boris must be deeply irritating for those who take a deep interest in politics and I'm possibly in a minority here. But all things are subjective. I'm still waiting for him to finish a sentence, but he's hardly Mephistopheles.

    As I've said before on here, I don't mind his lack of morals or principles. Men with cast-iron convictions can be dangerous when they reach the top, unless those convictions include democracy. Better a pragmatist than a dictator. Strength of purpose isn't always good. Pol Pot and Stalin had plenty of that.

    He's a bit of a twat, but that's not a hanging offence.

    He'll go once the Tories lost their glitter and the opposition not only listen but also take note. They all do that eventually. Bring back Kinnock.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,487

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    I don't expect that you would take it kindly if people started insulting the Sainted Nicola in the same way.
    You have to be kidding , no-one on the planet could be that desperate.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,368
    MattW said:

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    One for a footballer.
    They are perhaps the only group of consumers with sufficiently large wallets and sufficiently poor taste.
This discussion has been closed.