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MIND THE GAP: HOW LONG WILL BORIS JOHNSON SERVE AS PRIME MINISTER? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,288

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    The Scottish population is up by 11.9% over the last ~century.

    By way of comparison the English population is +59.8% over the same period (and this is the sole reason for the public funding imbalance, the difference in population growth, the Barnett formula is actually intended to eliminate the difference that arose as a result).

    And, for completeness since the comparison with Japan was made initially, their population is +124.5% over the last century.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,856
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Having pointed out the trial in the comments a few days ago, I should note that Lab MP Apsana Begum has been cleared of fraudulent housing claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58024457

    One less opportunity for the King of the North to get a seat in Parliament.

    The King of the North has made clear he has no desire to get back into Parliament until the next general election.

    He is quite happy to let Starmer lose the next general election and if he does then be the leader in waiting after
    However he has quite the form for U-turns.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,460
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    I must admit that I don't know if this is correct or not, but it seems very very unlikely that it is correct. None of those seem like obvious trade opportunities.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    1951 5,095,969
    2019 5,463,300
    A 7% increase.

    Over the same period:

    England
    1951: 41,164,356
    2019: 56,286,961

    A 37% increase.

    Funny how the immigrants go to "racist xenophobic England" and not "joyous & civic Scotland".

    It's a puzzle....
    It’s the language, obviously. ;)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    Meet Ricky Taylor. He is the new SNP Complaints Officer. His appointment is interesting because he has a history of targeting Joanna Cherry with nonsense claims of transphobia. Charges which are significant given she faced death threats from the (now convicted) Grant Karte.

    https://twitter.com/DeanMThomson/status/1421456127527636994?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    Hahahaha

    So the population has barely budged from 1971 to 2021? Fifty years???


    In the same period the population of England went from 46 milllion to 56 million. ie England casually added two Scotlands

    Scotland is absolutely beautiful, in parts, if you’re in the right mood, in the right weather. But no one wants to live there. This is just a fact. Awkwardly reinforced by the fact that one of the Scots who chooses not to live there is, er, you
    Edinburgh is quite popular, when I have been there there have always been plenty of continental accents but yes beyond the capital there isn't great demand from migrants.

    Even Glasgow has relatively few immigrants for its size as the biggest city in Scotland. The biggest influx beyond that is English retirees to rural Scotland
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,130
    edited August 1

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    A very fine example of Boris Derangement Syndrome.

    And why this place is currently not worth visiting. I'll be back once Boris departs. Be about 8 years, I reckon.....
    OGH is STILL smarting since the Lib Dems were reduced to a rump party with an insignificant leader or two. The deranged comments are something else and are akin to some of the shite that I hear is spouted on twitter. The more they spout, the more its hurting them. GOOD.
    The derangement, of course, works both ways.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,329
    MattW said:

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad you all had a great day. There's nothing like a good wedding, such a lovely hopeful occasion, with family and friends, food, drink and dancing. Emotional too. I am going to be an absolute mess if/when my kids get hitched! Best wishes to your son and daughter in law and all of your family.
    Thank you and I can say with certainty, as all three of our children are now married, that you will experience incredible emotions, but they are the best of all emotions
    Time for a Round the World cruise.

    Covid permitting.
    To be fair we have travelled round the world several times and cruised many times more but our horizons are now concentrating in enjoying the UK but only when we can holiday without lots of restrictions as we are fortunate to live in a beautiful holiday resort with the Irish Sea to the front and Snowdonia to the rear
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,476

    kle4 said:

    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
    He's also spread some truly nasty and even dangerous things taking advantage of other people for god knows what reason. Humiliation would appear entirely reasonable in that circumstance.
    He chose to humiliate himself.

    A good few years back, there was a "sting" by IIRC a CH4 team. They tried offering a very shady deal to various members of the House of Lords. A number fell over in the rush to self themselves for a mess of pottage....

    One Lord (DUP I think), was filmed listening to their proposal. He considered, then told them that what they proposed was immoral and hopefully illegal. If it wasn't illegal, he would try and make it so. He then told them to leave and never come back.

    The idea that offering someone a stack of money to sell their morals is anyway "unfair" is bollocks. If you sell out, that's up to you. That's who you chose to be.

    In addition, Piers Corbyn has been presenting himself a lone "sword of truth"* in his attacks on vaccines etc - Showing that he has feet of clay is exactly what is needed.

    *Yes, indeed. That sword.
    My only criticism of these stings is that they don't give credit to the people who tell them to get stuffed. Everyone remembers the MPs who accepted bribes. Nobody remembers those who didn't. Sure, it should be normal to refuse them, nothing outstanding, but the public ends up with the impression that everyone's on the take.

    The interest in Piers Corbyn is because of his brother, though - if he was Joe Bloggs we'd never have heard of him. Nobody is responsible for their relatives - I was defending Vicky Coren on FB the other day because someone attacked her for something Giles had written.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,606

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    That’s really interesting. So only 10% up on the 1939 population? Wonder what looks like for England?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264
    ‘We love Scotland, it’s the SNP we hate. Nevertheless Scotland is a shit place that no one wants to move to.’

    Shades of the ‘it’s not Europe it’s the EU’ mob. Not the same people of course, oh no, certainly not.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,767
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    That was almost as funny as Johnson's umbrella sketch.

    Alternatively, citation?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    ConHome poll:

    Both Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak u-turned over trying to avoid self-isolating – but with very different results. The Chancellor’s score is down a bit but he still enjoys his silver-medal position. The Prime Minister, on the other hand, has shed more than 35 points, and is only just in positive territory.

    Another minister who’s had a bad month is Priti Patel. The Home Secretary has lost 20 points, almost half her June score. The ongoing failure to stem the flow of boats across the Channel seems the most likely explanation.

    Liz Truss and Dominic Raab round out the podium, in exactly the same positions they held last month and with basically the same scores. Lord Frost is again in fourth place. The UK’s external policy seems to be broadly popular with the grass roots.


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2021/08/from-self-isolation-to-score-annihilation-johnson-drops-36-points-in-our-cabinet-league-table.html
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,538
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Frozen in a container ship for months?, milk? fruit? Veg?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,487
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    Scotland does not have a ‘strong flow of immigrants’. It is basically Greenland with a bit of Georgian architecture. The climate is so vile - 10 months of winter and 2 months of midges - it sends people mad. This explains why its population has barely budged in a century (whereas England has added 10-20m inhabitants in the same time). It also explains why so many Scots live abroad. Including, er, you.
    You pissed already
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,606

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    1951 5,095,969
    2019 5,463,300
    A 7% increase.

    Over the same period:

    England
    1951: 41,164,356
    2019: 56,286,961

    A 37% increase.

    Funny how the immigrants go to "racist xenophobic England" and not "joyous & civic Scotland".

    It's a puzzle....
    I see someone else got there first. I also wonder about the impact on England of the much larger increase. Maybe there is a genuine grievance about too many people? GP services would have needed to expand far more in England than Scotland for instance.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,519

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad you all had a great day. There's nothing like a good wedding, such a lovely hopeful occasion, with family and friends, food, drink and dancing. Emotional too. I am going to be an absolute mess if/when my kids get hitched! Best wishes to your son and daughter in law and all of your family.
    Thank you and I can say with certainty, as all three of our children are now married, that you will experience incredible emotions, but they are the best of all emotions
    That sounds great, G, congratulations.

    My 1st wedding remains the biggest set piece event of my life. About 200 guests, many of them exuberant anglo indians. I needed drink to do the speech but just about pulled it off. My dad cried his eyes out, my youngest brother overdid it and was sick, and my middle brother printed with a bridesmaid. I was only 24 years old. A kid really.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,460
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    We are going to sell more expensive lamb to a country that produces oodles of it cheaper?

    We don't produce the type of wine Australia sells to us and our wines are very specialised (usually white or rose and sparkling and not cheap). There maybe an opportunity but it will be very small indeed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    kle4 said:

    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
    He's also spread some truly nasty and even dangerous things taking advantage of other people for god knows what reason. Humiliation would appear entirely reasonable in that circumstance.
    He chose to humiliate himself.

    A good few years back, there was a "sting" by IIRC a CH4 team. They tried offering a very shady deal to various members of the House of Lords. A number fell over in the rush to self themselves for a mess of pottage....

    One Lord (DUP I think), was filmed listening to their proposal. He considered, then told them that what they proposed was immoral and hopefully illegal. If it wasn't illegal, he would try and make it so. He then told them to leave and never come back.

    The idea that offering someone a stack of money to sell their morals is anyway "unfair" is bollocks. If you sell out, that's up to you. That's who you chose to be.

    In addition, Piers Corbyn has been presenting himself a lone "sword of truth"* in his attacks on vaccines etc - Showing that he has feet of clay is exactly what is needed.

    *Yes, indeed. That sword.
    My only criticism of these stings is that they don't give credit to the people who tell them to get stuffed. Everyone remembers the MPs who accepted bribes. Nobody remembers those who didn't. Sure, it should be normal to refuse them, nothing outstanding, but the public ends up with the impression that everyone's on the take.

    The interest in Piers Corbyn is because of his brother, though - if he was Joe Bloggs we'd never have heard of him. Nobody is responsible for their relatives - I was defending Vicky Coren on FB the other day because someone attacked her for something Giles had written.
    Piers may have become famous because of his brother, but he’s very much a target in his own right now. And rightly so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,288

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    The Scottish population is up by 11.9% over the last ~century.

    By way of comparison the English population is +59.8% over the same period (and this is the sole reason for the public funding imbalance, the difference in population growth, the Barnett formula is actually intended to eliminate the difference that arose as a result).

    And, for completeness since the comparison with Japan was made initially, their population is +124.5% over the last century.
    If we do a comparison since devolution then we have:
    Scotland +7.9%
    England +14.5%
    Japan -1.0%
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,487
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    I must admit that I don't know if this is correct or not, but it seems very very unlikely that it is correct. None of those seem like obvious trade opportunities.
    As usual it is just pure bollox, only a mad Tory would think we would ship those around the world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited August 1

    ‘We love Scotland, it’s the SNP we hate. Nevertheless Scotland is a shit place that no one wants to move to.’

    Shades of the ‘it’s not Europe it’s the EU’ mob. Not the same people of course, oh no, certainly not.

    Well thank goodness you won't pretend that one person saying it applies to everyone, since I'm sure we all object to that if some mad nationalist/unionist/labour/tory person is held up as representative of everyone.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    edited August 1

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    That’s really interesting. So only 10% up on the 1939 population? Wonder what looks like for England?
    48%
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286

    ‘We love Scotland, it’s the SNP we hate. Nevertheless Scotland is a shit place that no one wants to move to.’

    Shades of the ‘it’s not Europe it’s the EU’ mob. Not the same people of course, oh no, certainly not.

    My sister and her husband moved from Essex to Scotland shortly after their marriage. As evidenced by the accents of their three daughters. However only one of those daughters still lives in Scotland.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    I do have an Australian daughter so I am biased. Plus multiple other Aussie family connections

    But whenever I go to Oz I am always struck by its cultural similarities to Britain. The architecture (often crap), the salty humour, the sport, everything. I love it. Yes it lacks finesse in places but it has the sun, and mad animals.

    It feels a lot closer than the USA or even Canada. In fact it feels closer than Ireland, and definitely closer than France.

    The French are good neighbours with a lovely house but annoying dogs, either way it’s important we get along to keep the peace. There is a rivalry but generally we laugh it off.

    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264
    kinabalu said:

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad you all had a great day. There's nothing like a good wedding, such a lovely hopeful occasion, with family and friends, food, drink and dancing. Emotional too. I am going to be an absolute mess if/when my kids get hitched! Best wishes to your son and daughter in law and all of your family.
    Thank you and I can say with certainty, as all three of our children are now married, that you will experience incredible emotions, but they are the best of all emotions
    That sounds great, G, congratulations.

    My 1st wedding remains the biggest set piece event of my life. About 200 guests, many of them exuberant anglo indians. I needed drink to do the speech but just about pulled it off. My dad cried his eyes out, my youngest brother overdid it and was sick, and my middle brother printed with a bridesmaid. I was only 24 years old. A kid really.
    Printed?! A Marxist pamphlet or something more artistic?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    We are going to sell more expensive lamb to a country that produces oodles of it cheaper?

    We don't produce the type of wine Australia sells to us and our wines are very specialised (usually white or rose and sparkling and not cheap). There maybe an opportunity but it will be very small indeed.
    As with so many on here this morning the view is clear, trade deals are fine but only as long as they are with the EU or negotiated by the EU (no problem with cheap unchecked EU imports of course).

    However we need sky high tariffs on trade with non EU nations for evermore
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
    He's also spread some truly nasty and even dangerous things taking advantage of other people for god knows what reason. Humiliation would appear entirely reasonable in that circumstance.
    He chose to humiliate himself.

    A good few years back, there was a "sting" by IIRC a CH4 team. They tried offering a very shady deal to various members of the House of Lords. A number fell over in the rush to self themselves for a mess of pottage....

    One Lord (DUP I think), was filmed listening to their proposal. He considered, then told them that what they proposed was immoral and hopefully illegal. If it wasn't illegal, he would try and make it so. He then told them to leave and never come back.

    The idea that offering someone a stack of money to sell their morals is anyway "unfair" is bollocks. If you sell out, that's up to you. That's who you chose to be.

    In addition, Piers Corbyn has been presenting himself a lone "sword of truth"* in his attacks on vaccines etc - Showing that he has feet of clay is exactly what is needed.

    *Yes, indeed. That sword.
    My only criticism of these stings is that they don't give credit to the people who tell them to get stuffed. Everyone remembers the MPs who accepted bribes. Nobody remembers those who didn't. Sure, it should be normal to refuse them, nothing outstanding, but the public ends up with the impression that everyone's on the take.

    The interest in Piers Corbyn is because of his brother, though - if he was Joe Bloggs we'd never have heard of him. Nobody is responsible for their relatives - I was defending Vicky Coren on FB the other day because someone attacked her for something Giles had written.
    Piers may have become famous because of his brother, but he’s very much a target in his own right now. And rightly so.
    Piers was famous before his brother. Ironically, he was lauded by many of those who now condemn him, for his opposition to theories of global warming (he is a meteorologist who said it was all due to solar activity).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Channeling John McEnroe.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,487

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    1951 5,095,969
    2019 5,463,300
    A 7% increase.

    Over the same period:

    England
    1951: 41,164,356
    2019: 56,286,961

    A 37% increase.

    Funny how the immigrants go to "racist xenophobic England" and not "joyous & civic Scotland".

    It's a puzzle....
    I see someone else got there first. I also wonder about the impact on England of the much larger increase. Maybe there is a genuine grievance about too many people? GP services would have needed to expand far more in England than Scotland for instance.
    I note our resident "Failed Scottish Emigrant" is as ever quick to try and denigrate Scotland.
    Ironic the racism and jingoism in her adopted country she trumpets loudly about.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,755
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    I do have an Australian daughter so I am biased. Plus multiple other Aussie family connections

    But whenever I go to Oz I am always struck by its cultural similarities to Britain. The architecture (often crap), the salty humour, the sport, everything. I love it. Yes it lacks finesse in places but it has the sun, and mad animals.

    It feels a lot closer than the USA or even Canada. In fact it feels closer than Ireland, and definitely closer than France.

    The French are good neighbours with a lovely house but annoying dogs, either way it’s important we get along to keep the peace. There is a rivalry but generally we laugh it off.

    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    Proportionately there was quite a lot of emigration to Australia after WW2, so it's not surprising that it feels so culturally close in comparison to the North American part of the Anglosphere.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    edited August 1
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    I do have an Australian daughter so I am biased. Plus multiple other Aussie family connections

    But whenever I go to Oz I am always struck by its cultural similarities to Britain. The architecture (often crap), the salty humour, the sport, everything. I love it. Yes it lacks finesse in places but it has the sun, and mad animals.

    It feels a lot closer than the USA or even Canada. In fact it feels closer than Ireland, and definitely closer than France.

    The French are good neighbours with a lovely house but annoying dogs, either way it’s important we get along to keep the peace. There is a rivalry but generally we laugh it off.

    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    Michael Grade described a long search for a daytime soap for the BBC, looking at hours of American programmes, and then he saw Neighbours with the families playing street cricket in its opening titles.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    1951 5,095,969
    2019 5,463,300
    A 7% increase.

    Over the same period:

    England
    1951: 41,164,356
    2019: 56,286,961

    A 37% increase.

    Funny how the immigrants go to "racist xenophobic England" and not "joyous & civic Scotland".

    It's a puzzle....
    I see someone else got there first. I also wonder about the impact on England of the much larger increase. Maybe there is a genuine grievance about too many people? GP services would have needed to expand far more in England than Scotland for instance.
    If only the put upon English had been able to elect governments in charge of their immigration policy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,606
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
    He's also spread some truly nasty and even dangerous things taking advantage of other people for god knows what reason. Humiliation would appear entirely reasonable in that circumstance.
    He chose to humiliate himself.

    A good few years back, there was a "sting" by IIRC a CH4 team. They tried offering a very shady deal to various members of the House of Lords. A number fell over in the rush to self themselves for a mess of pottage....

    One Lord (DUP I think), was filmed listening to their proposal. He considered, then told them that what they proposed was immoral and hopefully illegal. If it wasn't illegal, he would try and make it so. He then told them to leave and never come back.

    The idea that offering someone a stack of money to sell their morals is anyway "unfair" is bollocks. If you sell out, that's up to you. That's who you chose to be.

    In addition, Piers Corbyn has been presenting himself a lone "sword of truth"* in his attacks on vaccines etc - Showing that he has feet of clay is exactly what is needed.

    *Yes, indeed. That sword.
    My only criticism of these stings is that they don't give credit to the people who tell them to get stuffed. Everyone remembers the MPs who accepted bribes. Nobody remembers those who didn't. Sure, it should be normal to refuse them, nothing outstanding, but the public ends up with the impression that everyone's on the take.

    The interest in Piers Corbyn is because of his brother, though - if he was Joe Bloggs we'd never have heard of him. Nobody is responsible for their relatives - I was defending Vicky Coren on FB the other day because someone attacked her for something Giles had written.
    Piers may have become famous because of his brother, but he’s very much a target in his own right now. And rightly so.
    Because of my weather obsession, I’ve known of Piers far longer than Jeremy. He has a certain notoriety in the weather field as a classic long range predicted (aka guesser). Usual trope is to predict really harsh winters and scorching summers, and then claim success on the 1 in 10 that come out roughly right. Hoping that everyone else forgets the 9 in 10 that don’t. Nathan Rao is the latest go to for this - Daily Mail guaranteed to have a hard winter coming story in the next few months.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,018
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,460
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    We are going to sell more expensive lamb to a country that produces oodles of it cheaper?

    We don't produce the type of wine Australia sells to us and our wines are very specialised (usually white or rose and sparkling and not cheap). There maybe an opportunity but it will be very small indeed.
    As with so many on here this morning the view is clear, trade deals are fine but only as long as they are with the EU or negotiated by the EU (no problem with cheap unchecked EU imports of course).

    However we need sky high tariffs on trade with non EU nations for evermore
    No that is not the point at all. I am all for free trade with Australia and new Zealand and I am sure there are opportunities, but you really did come up with an absolutely bonkers list.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    Is this true?

    Now Craig Murray is claiming that: “The Salmond trial was a vindication of the jury system. I did not get a jury. Which is why Dorrian and Sturgeon are planning to abolish juries in sex crime trials, in the new parliamentary session.”

    It’s really really not – and memo to self – everything in the entire universe isn’t about you. It’s about, in this case the absolutely appalling conviction rates for rape and sexual assault.


    I’m sorry, but this is disgraceful. If juries aren’t appropriate for one form of crime they should be scrapped completely.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    Looks like (some in) Australia are giving up on "Zero COVID" and focussing on vaccination:

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/berejiklian-says-vaccination-milestones-will-be-key-to-ending-lockdown-20210801-p58euz.html

    Though with Delta I doubt "50% vaccinated" is anywhere near enough.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, the Australians do with us now and soon so will New Zealand, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,880

    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264
    edited August 1

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    CD13 said:

    Highly amused by Corbyn P's antics across at Guido. Not sure that humiliating him was necessary, though. He clearly has mental health issues and making him a figure of fun isn't needed. Even if the scam was done well.

    What actually happened? The sad fact is that it is easy to con people, but did anything happen here or did they pull out too early? Did any money change hands? Did behaviour change as a result? If it is "no" to both questions then all they've done is made a fool of a crank most people considered a fool anyway.
    He's also spread some truly nasty and even dangerous things taking advantage of other people for god knows what reason. Humiliation would appear entirely reasonable in that circumstance.
    He chose to humiliate himself.

    A good few years back, there was a "sting" by IIRC a CH4 team. They tried offering a very shady deal to various members of the House of Lords. A number fell over in the rush to self themselves for a mess of pottage....

    One Lord (DUP I think), was filmed listening to their proposal. He considered, then told them that what they proposed was immoral and hopefully illegal. If it wasn't illegal, he would try and make it so. He then told them to leave and never come back.

    The idea that offering someone a stack of money to sell their morals is anyway "unfair" is bollocks. If you sell out, that's up to you. That's who you chose to be.

    In addition, Piers Corbyn has been presenting himself a lone "sword of truth"* in his attacks on vaccines etc - Showing that he has feet of clay is exactly what is needed.

    *Yes, indeed. That sword.
    My only criticism of these stings is that they don't give credit to the people who tell them to get stuffed. Everyone remembers the MPs who accepted bribes. Nobody remembers those who didn't. Sure, it should be normal to refuse them, nothing outstanding, but the public ends up with the impression that everyone's on the take.

    The interest in Piers Corbyn is because of his brother, though - if he was Joe Bloggs we'd never have heard of him. Nobody is responsible for their relatives - I was defending Vicky Coren on FB the other day because someone attacked her for something Giles had written.
    Piers may have become famous because of his brother, but he’s very much a target in his own right now. And rightly so.
    Piers was famous before his brother. Ironically, he was lauded by many of those who now condemn him, for his opposition to theories of global warming (he is a meteorologist who said it was all due to solar activity).
    Also ironically, many of those who opposed those theories on global warming have now gone very quiet. I’m old enough to remember violent PB opposition to wind generated power..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    One look at where Brits go when they move abroad would tell you that - more than in the entire EU. In one country.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    I do have an Australian daughter so I am biased. Plus multiple other Aussie family connections

    But whenever I go to Oz I am always struck by its cultural similarities to Britain. The architecture (often crap), the salty humour, the sport, everything. I love it. Yes it lacks finesse in places but it has the sun, and mad animals.

    It feels a lot closer than the USA or even Canada. In fact it feels closer than Ireland, and definitely closer than France.

    The French are good neighbours with a lovely house but annoying dogs, either way it’s important we get along to keep the peace. There is a rivalry but generally we laugh it off.

    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    Proportionately there was quite a lot of emigration to Australia after WW2, so it's not surprising that it feels so culturally close in comparison to the North American part of the Anglosphere.
    Indeed. And it continues daily, both ways

    Australia also has an attractive sense of optimism, which has sadly departed the USA. Yes Australia has many issues - not least, OMG we might all burn to death via climate change - but you also get the mood of Wow, we’ve got a whole continent to play with, what shall we do?

    It is high on my list of retirement options

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,606

    Looks like (some in) Australia are giving up on "Zero COVID" and focussing on vaccination:

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/berejiklian-says-vaccination-milestones-will-be-key-to-ending-lockdown-20210801-p58euz.html

    Though with Delta I doubt "50% vaccinated" is anywhere near enough.....

    This is the big problem with zero Covid. It’s basically impossible once it has spread around the world. For all the crowing of some about how free and easy their lives have been compared to ours since March last year, there is a sense that we are now through the worst in the U.K. and Europe too. In aus and nz, who need tourism (to a greater extent in nz) there are huge challenges ahead. And which country currently has half it’s citizens in lockdown U.K. or AUS?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    One look at where Brits go when they move abroad would tell you that - more than in the entire EU. In one country.
    Quite a big one, though. And emigration there has been 'normal' for a couple of hundred years. (Not always voluntarily, of course.)
    Remember the £10 Poms?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
    There’s a great line in one of those stories about Boris’ assured future earnings

    Something like: “a minister said, ‘I don’t know what Boris is worried about, he will be rich the day he steps down. Let’s face it, even Theresa May earned £500,000 for public speaking the year after she quit. And I’d pay £500,000 to NOT hear her speak’”
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,460
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,041

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    One look at where Brits go when they move abroad would tell you that - more than in the entire EU. In one country.
    Quite a big one, though. And emigration there has been 'normal' for a couple of hundred years. (Not always voluntarily, of course.)
    Remember the £10 Poms?
    Yes - I remember our next door neighbour literally dancing in the street when she got confirmation that the family had been accepted!
  • tlg86 said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    Is this true?

    Now Craig Murray is claiming that: “The Salmond trial was a vindication of the jury system. I did not get a jury. Which is why Dorrian and Sturgeon are planning to abolish juries in sex crime trials, in the new parliamentary session.”

    It’s really really not – and memo to self – everything in the entire universe isn’t about you. It’s about, in this case the absolutely appalling conviction rates for rape and sexual assault.


    I’m sorry, but this is disgraceful. If juries aren’t appropriate for one form of crime they should be scrapped completely.
    It is a review at the moment as far as I understand.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rape-victims-retraumatised-by-criminal-justice-system-senior-judge-says-12252521

    I know there has been talk and action of abolishing juries for complex fraud/financial crimes in England & Wales but the House of Lords stepped in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39877171

    But it does rear its head every so often.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100
    tlg86 said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    Is this true?

    Now Craig Murray is claiming that: “The Salmond trial was a vindication of the jury system. I did not get a jury. Which is why Dorrian and Sturgeon are planning to abolish juries in sex crime trials, in the new parliamentary session.”

    It’s really really not – and memo to self – everything in the entire universe isn’t about you. It’s about, in this case the absolutely appalling conviction rates for rape and sexual assault.


    I’m sorry, but this is disgraceful. If juries aren’t appropriate for one form of crime they should be scrapped completely.
    JFC are the Scots really abandoning juries for rape trials??! It is McWoke-istan. Dystopian
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    'Picked' - ironic given that one issue for farmers is who is going to collect the blasted veg in the first place.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    Blimey, that was awesome from Max Whitlock.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,068

    Looks like (some in) Australia are giving up on "Zero COVID" and focussing on vaccination:

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/berejiklian-says-vaccination-milestones-will-be-key-to-ending-lockdown-20210801-p58euz.html

    Though with Delta I doubt "50% vaccinated" is anywhere near enough.....

    This is the big problem with zero Covid. It’s basically impossible once it has spread around the world. For all the crowing of some about how free and easy their lives have been compared to ours since March last year, there is a sense that we are now through the worst in the U.K. and Europe too. In aus and nz, who need tourism (to a greater extent in nz) there are huge challenges ahead. And which country currently has half it’s citizens in lockdown U.K. or AUS?
    Zero Covid would only have worked if the entire world had been able to go for it. Aus/NZ now have to transition to covid being endemic. The world has another couple of years of that transition.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,959
    edited August 1

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,856

    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
    On the Prince Charles one - cui bono?

    The only one I have seen so far is that one of Charle' charities received £1m+ .
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    Whitlock is 40-1 for SPoTY with Sky Bet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,511

    Yes Jim, we feel the love.

    In Sweden
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760
    Leon said:

    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
    There’s a great line in one of those stories about Boris’ assured future earnings

    Something like: “a minister said, ‘I don’t know what Boris is worried about, he will be rich the day he steps down. Let’s face it, even Theresa May earned £500,000 for public speaking the year after she quit. And I’d pay £500,000 to NOT hear her speak’”
    To be serious, if you wanted to learn about government, Theresa May could be a better bet. If you want a laugh, hire a real stand-up. I expect Boris will end up touring the better-endowed American universities: politics in the morning; classics in the afternoon; selfies with the most recognisable leader since The Donald in the evening.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,217
    edited August 1
    Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640
    MattW said:

    Having pointed out the trial in the comments a few days ago, I should note that Lab MP Apsana Begum has been cleared of fraudulent housing claims.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58024457

    One less opportunity for the King of the North to get a seat in Parliament.

    Indeed, she is completely vindicated.

    "Poplar and Limehouse MP Apsana Begum today found not guilty of three charges relating to housing fraud. The prosecution was brought by Tower Hamlets council, where the ex husband she accused in court of ‘controlling and coercive’ behaviour is a councillor."

    https://twitter.com/RachaelBurford/status/1421128890425221120?s=19

    It looks like an interesting story of using the courts to punish a Muslim woman who has offended "community leaders". I suspect the reason that the Labour Party hasn't done much publicity about it is that it is a fairly classic feminist vs orthodoxy clash. Maybe Jess is just on holiday.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,696
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    I've been there and had a good look aroiund and can only concur. I'd add

    7. It's in a temperate rain forest - very often pishing it down with midges and clegs (about 66inches a year, though I assume that's down on the low ground near the castle at Kinloch - will be higher oin the high ground). I remember staying there many uyears ago with the bathroom window open on a calm misty evening: not a mistake I made again. (The trees were previously eradicated: are being replaced.)
    8. Direct ferry to Mallaig.
    9. No mention of a transfer/buyout by the community.

    PS> Still a great island to explore.
    I wanna do the ridge walk, what the call the Rum Cuillin, next year.

    It does seem to have its own particularly shit microclimate there, even by comparison with its near neighbours.
    The weather does vary!

    I never did the full ridge walk - but just going up Allival and Askival and then down Glen Dibidil and back by the almost coastal path was a huge treat on a clear blue sunny day. However, it's also good to walk across the island to Bloodstone Hill - great views of Canna and the Long Isle etc.

    One caveat - check restrictions relating to the deer population and research on it - I haven't been for a long time but at that time one could not go into a certain area except at set times (Sunday for instance).
    I've camped on Hallival but for some weird reason managed to climb Ainshval and not Askival. The weather was set fair for the week and it was April, so no midges. I'm not inclined to go back in order to get rained on!

    The 'castle' is an anachronism, but part of the history of the Hebrides. Is it out of place? No more than a modern bungalow with a tiled roof is. I know that that land ownership in the islands is a touchy subject but trying to erase the past is a losing game. The Bond villain vibes are part of the attraction (Alligators! Racing cars!). Shame about the iron frame (whoever thought that was a good idea in that climate?). Without it there would be many fewer visitors to the island and without them I'm not entirely sure how the place is sustainable.

    If you remove it entirely what are you left with? A deer research project and a lot of Shearwaters, plus a few cattle for conservation. A trickle of people doing the Cuillin isn't going to provide much income, and 'community wind turbines' aren't going to happen in an NNR.

    Who has the money, though? Only another Bond villain. Does Elon Musk fancy it?


  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,538
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    Our first post Brexit non EU trade deal was with the Aussies and we still share a Head of State with them, yes they are our closest friends.

    Plus as the table shows they still clearly lead the world per capita at sport
    I do have an Australian daughter so I am biased. Plus multiple other Aussie family connections

    But whenever I go to Oz I am always struck by its cultural similarities to Britain. The architecture (often crap), the salty humour, the sport, everything. I love it. Yes it lacks finesse in places but it has the sun, and mad animals.

    It feels a lot closer than the USA or even Canada. In fact it feels closer than Ireland, and definitely closer than France.

    The French are good neighbours with a lovely house but annoying dogs, either way it’s important we get along to keep the peace. There is a rivalry but generally we laugh it off.

    The Aussies are FAMILY. Big difference
    As mentioned before, the UK did export our crims to Oz in the 1800s and there was a lot of emigration their in the 50s and 60s, a kind of reverse Windrush I suppose. A lot of attitudes went across with them as well, some good some bad, which can be seen in the attitudes of government and society there now. It's no accident that the attitude to immigration is similar, or getting similar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,722
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    Or they import them. Hard to tell from a recipe. ;)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    Or they import them. Hard to tell from a recipe. ;)
    " ...here are some tips from Adam and one of Australia's biggest brussels sprouts growers."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,286
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    Or they import them. Hard to tell from a recipe. ;)
    Try: https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/brussels-sprouts/growing-brussels-sprouts-western-australia

    Advice from the Western Australian Government on growing them. Suggests it's a normal crop.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,650
    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Of course Christmas falls mid summer in Australia. Can you bbq Sprouts?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,264
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 top Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    So not much of a demand for sprouts that Oz farmers feel they have to meet then? With Christmas in the middle of Australian summer not surprising.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    The EU is not relevant.

    The stats don'tr prove anything.

    (a) you need to provide a comparable figure for the UK

    (b) you are assuming that the Aussies are all UK culinary types
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.
    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760

    Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,744
    As good as Adam Peaty is, Whitlock is more deserving of SPoTY in my opinion. That was a sensational performance in one of the hardest Olympic disciplines.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.
    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    Like what? Austin Maxis?

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760

    Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
    Ronnie Baker is now favourite. Kudos to whoever put him up last week (if he wins).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100
    Fecking amazing what men can do on a bloody pommel horse. The Great Escape lives!

    Go TEAMGB
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,920

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    There's a whole sub-genre of NZ literature devoted to shooting deer isn't there? Barry Crump and all that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,241
    GOLD!

    Well done to Whitlock.

    As an aside, one of the little 'un's friends is really into gymnastics, and goes to a couple of clubs hereabouts (including one that had a previous champion). When he was five, he was doing jumps and things that seemed incredible. And he's apparently far from the best at the club.

    It's amazing where dedication and training can get you.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,288
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Australia exports Brussels Sprouts to South Korea in growing quantities. It's a rarely grown vegetable only because it's consumed in much smaller quantities than, say, broccoli, cauliflower, courgette, etc.

    I haven't done the in-depth research to see whether there's scope for seasonal exports to Australia, but on the face of it they seem to have it covered.

    I did find one page about growing sprouts in Western Australia that was lamenting that most of their sprouts were currently imported from... Eastern Australia.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,068
    Leon said:

    Fecking amazing what men can do on a bloody pommel horse. The Great Escape lives!

    Go TEAMGB

    with a score of 15.583 he'd have been 5th in Rio.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,650
    edited August 1
    Dura_Ace said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    There's a whole sub-genre of NZ literature devoted to shooting deer isn't there? Barry Crump and all that.
    He was more wild pigs, but yeah.

    I remember the Christmas my brother-in-law turned up with a dead stag in a tarpaulin and hung it up in the holiday-stay garage until there was a blowfly invasion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    The EU is not relevant.

    The stats don'tr prove anything.

    (a) you need to provide a comparable figure for the UK

    (b) you are assuming that the Aussies are all UK culinary types
    The EU is relevant as it has no trade deal with Australia as we now do.

    The stats prove everything, Brussels Sprouts not even in the top 15 vegetables produced in Australia but produced in abundance in the UK.

    As the Australian recipe link you provided showed plenty of demand for Brussels Sprouts dishes down under
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,217
    edited August 1
    Its striking how different 100m runners look compared to the late 90s / early 2000s.....when most looked like they moonlighted in bodybuilding competitions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,641
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    The EU is not relevant.

    The stats don'tr prove anything.

    (a) you need to provide a comparable figure for the UK

    (b) you are assuming that the Aussies are all UK culinary types
    The EU is relevant as it has no trade deal with Australia as we now do.

    The stats prove everything, Brussels Sprouts not even in the top 15 vegetables produced in Australia but produced in abundance in the UK.

    As the Australian recipe link you provided showed plenty of demand for Brussels Sprouts dishes down under
    Are you going to export them via the Strait of Hormuz or something?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,217
    Wow that was a shock in 2nd semi-final of 100m.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,584
    edited August 1

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,640
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.
    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    Like what? Austin Maxis?

    When I lived in NZ in 89-90, I ran around in a 20 year old Austin 1100, affectionately known there as the land crab. There were loads of interesting old British cars from the fifties and sixties in daily use, as they didn't rust in Christchurch.

    The value collapsed as while I was there, the tariff on imported second hand cars was removed. Japanese cars are also RHD, and Japanese don't buy much second hand. They were better, cheaper and more reliable, so flooded in. Australia lost its car industry in a similar way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,100

    Leon said:

    Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
    There’s a great line in one of those stories about Boris’ assured future earnings

    Something like: “a minister said, ‘I don’t know what Boris is worried about, he will be rich the day he steps down. Let’s face it, even Theresa May earned £500,000 for public speaking the year after she quit. And I’d pay £500,000 to NOT hear her speak’”
    To be serious, if you wanted to learn about government, Theresa May could be a better bet. If you want a laugh, hire a real stand-up. I expect Boris will end up touring the better-endowed American universities: politics in the morning; classics in the afternoon; selfies with the most recognisable leader since The Donald in the evening.
    I disagree. The key to being in government is winning the job in the first place. Boris has done that, time and again. He is also, of course, THE victorious Brexiteer. He will be in demand worldwide
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,538

    Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
    Ronnie Baker is now favourite. Kudos to whoever put him up last week (if he wins).
    4 candles?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,760

    Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
    Ronnie Baker is now favourite. Kudos to whoever put him up last week (if he wins).
    Zharnel Hughes!! Trayvon Bromell hasn't turned up these Olympics.
This discussion has been closed.