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MIND THE GAP: HOW LONG WILL BORIS JOHNSON SERVE AS PRIME MINISTER? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
    Ronnie Baker is now favourite. Kudos to whoever put him up last week (if he wins).
    4 candles?
    I said fork handles....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    Whitlock’s performance is phenomenal
  • Its striking how different 100m runners look compared to the late 90s / early 2000s.....when most looked like they moonlighted in bodybuilding competitions.

    Carl Lewis was an exception from the gym shark look.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
  • Its striking how different 100m runners look compared to the late 90s / early 2000s.....when most looked like they moonlighted in bodybuilding competitions.

    Carl Lewis was an exception from the gym shark look.
    Lower levels of juice usage.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296
    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    Fecking amazing what men can do on a bloody pommel horse. The Great Escape lives!

    Go TEAMGB

    with a score of 15.583 he'd have been 5th in Rio.
    The rest of the competition obviously gave up after he battered them there. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.
    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    Like what? Austin Maxis?

    There are no car factories left in Australia and no assembly plants left in New Zealand now unlike the UK
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,970

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    I think for at risk buildings, they should bring back the hereditary baronetcy, and attach it to buildings like a bounty. So as long as the new owners restored the building, and they and their ancestors stayed in the building (for a certain number of days a year) they would join the nobility. They would lose the title if they ever sold or left. It would do a lot of good for these buildings and the communities that surround them.
  • Love the graph, @tlg86 :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833
    Dura_Ace said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    There's a whole sub-genre of NZ literature devoted to shooting deer isn't there? Barry Crump and all that.
    All over the South Island there are deer farms, easy to recognise as they have high fences. Strangely the biggest profit is from antler velvet, which is much prized in China and Korea. The venison was excellent value, and quite a healthy meat, albeit rather tough if not handled well.

    We ate and drank very well in our time there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,048
    Another gold, Whitlock on the pommel horse. Retains his title, and now has six medals in his career.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,970

    theProle said:

    The thought of poor Carrie having to copulate with that repulsive blob induces my gag reflex. I’m away out for a refreshing walk with the hound to regain faith in humankind and peruse the beauty of mother nature.

    Poor Carrie?
    Unlike Marina, who appeared to be a fairly decent type who foolishly married Boris, Carrie deserves everything she gets. She's a foul and horrible woman, who appears to have married Boris for one reason only - so she can be the power behind the throne.
    Wasn't Marina simply the Carrie of her day? Boris was still married to Allegra when courting Marina. In both cases, the marriages were already breaking down. I've no idea if Carrie is "foul and horrible" but surely Boris has some agency.
    'You lose them the way you got them.' is an adage with some value.
  • Sandpit said:

    Another gold, Whitlock on the pommel horse. Retains his title, and now has six medals in his career.

    But what else has he ever done -;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296
    Whitlock now tops the table in the pommel horse:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pommel_horse_at_the_Olympics

    He’s the first to defend the title since Zoltan Magyar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,048
    Now dry in Budapest, but rumours of more rain on the way close to the start of the F1 race.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Interesting. Who knew that Guetemala grew them and Mexico was amongst the biggest exporters of the vile little things.
  • Are we going to see a chinese 100m Olympic champion? That would be serious bragging rights for the Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822
    edited August 2021

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    I've been there and had a good look aroiund and can only concur. I'd add

    7. It's in a temperate rain forest - very often pishing it down with midges and clegs (about 66inches a year, though I assume that's down on the low ground near the castle at Kinloch - will be higher oin the high ground). I remember staying there many uyears ago with the bathroom window open on a calm misty evening: not a mistake I made again. (The trees were previously eradicated: are being replaced.)
    8. Direct ferry to Mallaig.
    9. No mention of a transfer/buyout by the community.

    PS> Still a great island to explore.
    I wanna do the ridge walk, what the call the Rum Cuillin, next year.

    It does seem to have its own particularly shit microclimate there, even by comparison with its near neighbours.
    The weather does vary!

    I never did the full ridge walk - but just going up Allival and Askival and then down Glen Dibidil and back by the almost coastal path was a huge treat on a clear blue sunny day. However, it's also good to walk across the island to Bloodstone Hill - great views of Canna and the Long Isle etc.

    One caveat - check restrictions relating to the deer population and research on it - I haven't been for a long time but at that time one could not go into a certain area except at set times (Sunday for instance).
    I've camped on Hallival but for some weird reason managed to climb Ainshval and not Askival. The weather was set fair for the week and it was April, so no midges. I'm not inclined to go back in order to get rained on!

    The 'castle' is an anachronism, but part of the history of the Hebrides. Is it out of place? No more than a modern bungalow with a tiled roof is. I know that that land ownership in the islands is a touchy subject but trying to erase the past is a losing game. The Bond villain vibes are part of the attraction (Alligators! Racing cars!). Shame about the iron frame (whoever thought that was a good idea in that climate?). Without it there would be many fewer visitors to the island and without them I'm not entirely sure how the place is sustainable.

    If you remove it entirely what are you left with? A deer research project and a lot of Shearwaters, plus a few cattle for conservation. A trickle of people doing the Cuillin isn't going to provide much income, and 'community wind turbines' aren't going to happen in an NNR.

    Who has the money, though? Only another Bond villain. Does Elon Musk fancy it?


    Actually, the topography is great for hydroelectricity - of some vintage: the castle was electrified with pipes up to a corrie part way up the hill to the south. The pipes were being renewed when I visited in, maybe, 1995 or so. The pipeline seems to have grown over but it's I think visible as the angular line next to the allt running from SW to Ne toward Kinloch.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mallaig/@57.0073488,-6.2950684,1707m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x488c02cb3c55c4fb:0xbed7e076ff890803!8m2!3d57.003813!4d-5.827173
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,930
    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

    It's so incredibly childish.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833
    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Though with a big drop in the latest figures.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,913
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.

    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    For those of us in the animal welfare corner the contrast with the reported Australia deal is interesting. Australia has some callous welfare standards which are nonetheless cost-efficient (feed lots, battery cages) so we and the farmers worry that they'll undercut us. New Zealand has at least comparable welfare standards to ours, possibly superior, so we hope that they'll pull us up. In both cases, though, the volume of trade is relatively small and these are the warm-up acts for the Trans-Pacific, Canadian and Mexican deals, with the colossal but elusive US deal and Mercosur rounding off the main list.

    The main worry about the Australian deal is really that it'll make it harder to avoid giving the same easy ride to low-welfare environment-killing American (not just US) producers. To make it even more complicated, some US producers are very high-welfare, better than most of ours - because US law is mostly at state level, the difference from California to Iowa is huge. So we want a deal offering zero tariffs for high welfare - which separates us from the NFU, who (as a trade union for all types of farmer) just want us all to buy British even when the welfare standard is low.

    In principle free trade is always sensible, though, so where standards in things we care about are broadly similar, it makes sense. I doubt if the NZ deal will attract much opposition.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
  • Are we going to see a chinese 100m Olympic champion? That would be serious bragging rights for the Party.

    Squeaky bum time for whoever laid three-figure prices about Su Bingtian.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822
    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Thank you - and para I especially I agree with.

    Has the written judgement come out yet, please?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,970
    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

    It's so incredibly childish.
    I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

    If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

    https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export
  • Why did someone leave those hurdles on the track? No wonder two ladies fell over!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,711

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    or milk
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,820
    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    Good grief even that is nonsense. Australia exports 0.8% of the worlds brussels exports and the UK exports 1.1% of the worlds brussel exports so not a great deal of difference.

    Whisky (not whiskey because that is Irish or American) and Cider makes perfect sense, but most of the other things you have mentioned are plain nuts.

    You still want to export lamb to New Zealand?

    Here is a thought re brussels: We have green beans all year round. We import them from Kenya and other places to ensure we have an all year round supply. Brussels are only sold when in season. Do you wonder why that is and when you come to a conclusion then apply that logic to exporting them to Australia and New Zealand.

    I'm not denying there may be niche markets, but they really will be niche.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

    It's so incredibly childish.
    I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

    If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

    https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export
    ANZ export sprouts = surplus. Does it need a mind like Clerk Maxwell to guess that it is not the world's best destination market for UK sprouts, especially not at their freshest after sailing halfway round the world? I don't think so.
  • YouTube has barred Sky News Australia from uploading new content for a week, saying it had breached rules on spreading Covid-19 misinformation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,062
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Thank you - and para I especially I agree with.

    Has the written judgement come out yet, please?
    I haven't seen it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    Good grief even that is nonsense. Australia exports 0.8% of the worlds brussels exports and the UK exports 1.1% of the worlds brussel exports so not a great deal of difference.

    Whisky (not whiskey because that is Irish or American) and Cider makes perfect sense, but most of the other things you have mentioned are plain nuts.

    You still want to export lamb to New Zealand?

    Here is a thought re brussels: We have green beans all year round. We import them from Kenya and other places to ensure we have an all year round supply. Brussels are only sold when in season. Do you wonder why that is and when you come to a conclusion then apply that logic to exporting them to Australia and New Zealand.

    I'm not denying there may be niche markets, but they really will be niche.
    In fairness there is some sale in the UK of frozen sprouts - but I am not sure how seasonal that is. And a lot of that is institutional food not the high value fresh market.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD has successfully dragged PBers into his own insanity vortex. Brings back wonderful memories of Scottish tanks and hot broth.
  • Why do the women race 100m hurdles and men 110m?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.

    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    For those of us in the animal welfare corner the contrast with the reported Australia deal is interesting. Australia has some callous welfare standards which are nonetheless cost-efficient (feed lots, battery cages) so we and the farmers worry that they'll undercut us. New Zealand has at least comparable welfare standards to ours, possibly superior, so we hope that they'll pull us up. In both cases, though, the volume of trade is relatively small and these are the warm-up acts for the Trans-Pacific, Canadian and Mexican deals, with the colossal but elusive US deal and Mercosur rounding off the main list.

    The main worry about the Australian deal is really that it'll make it harder to avoid giving the same easy ride to low-welfare environment-killing American (not just US) producers. To make it even more complicated, some US producers are very high-welfare, better than most of ours - because US law is mostly at state level, the difference from California to Iowa is huge. So we want a deal offering zero tariffs for high welfare - which separates us from the NFU, who (as a trade union for all types of farmer) just want us all to buy British even when the welfare standard is low.

    In principle free trade is always sensible, though, so where standards in things we care about are broadly similar, it makes sense. I doubt if the NZ deal will attract much opposition.
    Yes but I think Australia and NZ deals will be the obvious quick wins, welfare concerns with the former nothwithstanding.

    The Canadian deal has also been done already I believe and carried over from the EU deal.

    A UK-US trade deal however I cannot see happening before the next election, Biden is not as enthusiastic as Trump was and that is before it even got to Congress which would take an age to approve it
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,062

    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?
    The rules now are that you firstly apply to the Court that has dealt with the matter for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. That application involved a hearing at which Murray was represented by the Dean of Faculty, Roddy Dunlop QC. The application was refused. You then apply to the Supreme Court itself who can choose to hear the case if they consider it in the public interest or if it raises a matter of sufficient importance. My experience of that predates the current rules but my understanding is that this is a paper exercise with a written submission. That has also now been refused.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822

    HYUFD has successfully dragged PBers into his own insanity vortex. Brings back wonderful memories of Scottish tanks and hot broth.

    And his theory that the only significanrt voters in the entire Scottish fishing and processing industry consisted of the skippers of the larger and longer-ranged boats.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,820
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
    a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
    b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
    c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important
  • Piers Corbyn's on sale for Monopoly money. Lots of laughs at Guido Central.

    Meanwhile today's front pages have two different stories of money and influence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58043872

    From the Times and Telegraph respectively:-

    Tory chairman Ben Elliot ‘peddled access to Prince Charles’
    The chairman of the Conservative Party profited from giving ultra-wealthy clients of his concierge company Quintessentially access to Prince Charles, a major party donor alleges today.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-chairman-ben-elliot-peddled-access-to-prince-charles-hsw5t5bzr (£££)

    Tax rises would choke the economy, Tory donors tell Boris Johnson
    Businessmen warn of dire consequences if Prime Minister and Rishi Sunak raise taxes at the Budget to pay Covid bill and fund social care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/31/tax-rises-would-choke-economy-tory-donors-tell-boris-johnson/ (£££)

    A different type of Monopoly money, no doubt.

    Why would anyone want access to Prince Charles ?

    I'd rather pay money to avoid him than meet him.
    I've not read the paywalled story but it looks like internal Conservative Party politics might be a factor.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,851
    Leon said:

    Fecking amazing what men can do on a bloody pommel horse. The Great Escape lives!

    Go TEAMGB

    Wrong film!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,913
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.

    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    For those of us in the animal welfare corner the contrast with the reported Australia deal is interesting. Australia has some callous welfare standards which are nonetheless cost-efficient (feed lots, battery cages) so we and the farmers worry that they'll undercut us. New Zealand has at least comparable welfare standards to ours, possibly superior, so we hope that they'll pull us up. In both cases, though, the volume of trade is relatively small and these are the warm-up acts for the Trans-Pacific, Canadian and Mexican deals, with the colossal but elusive US deal and Mercosur rounding off the main list.

    The main worry about the Australian deal is really that it'll make it harder to avoid giving the same easy ride to low-welfare environment-killing American (not just US) producers. To make it even more complicated, some US producers are very high-welfare, better than most of ours - because US law is mostly at state level, the difference from California to Iowa is huge. So we want a deal offering zero tariffs for high welfare - which separates us from the NFU, who (as a trade union for all types of farmer) just want us all to buy British even when the welfare standard is low.

    In principle free trade is always sensible, though, so where standards in things we care about are broadly similar, it makes sense. I doubt if the NZ deal will attract much opposition.
    Yes but I think Australia and NZ deals will be the obvious quick wins, welfare concerns with the former nothwithstanding.

    The Canadian deal has also been done already I believe and carried over from the EU deal.

    A UK-US trade deal however I cannot see happening before the next election, Biden is not as enthusiastic as Trump was and that is before it even got to Congress which would take an age to approve it
    Yes, I agree, unless the mid-terms are surprisingly good for the Democrats to the point where the moderates could carry a new fast-track mandate, which seems unlikely. The Trans-Pacific deal is the next substantial one on the horizon.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296

    Why do the women race 100m hurdles and men 110m?

    Stride length?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,251

    HYUFD has successfully dragged PBers into his own insanity vortex. Brings back wonderful memories of Scottish tanks and hot broth.

    And making sea passage to the Arabian Gulf via Cape Horn.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,930
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

    It's so incredibly childish.
    I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

    If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

    https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export
    You are wrong.

    On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

    What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

    You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.
  • Are the BBC really going to show beach volleyball other the 100m semi-finals?

    Edit - thank god for that, they have switched over. I thought they were going to repeat yesterdays nonsense.

    Sans our chap. Fred Kerley is not out of it.
    Ronnie Baker is now favourite. Kudos to whoever put him up last week (if he wins).
    4 candles?
    I said fork handles....
    Surely he can't win with these feet?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,651

    kinabalu said:

    Good morning

    I do find obsessing about Boris and Carrie relationship rather tedious, and to be fair she had suffered a miscarriage which is a very upsetting event as my own daughter can affirm

    However, turning to happier times my sons wedding to his long term partner yesterday was just perfect and their two children delightful, not least their 7 year old son walking up the aisle in his formal smaller version wedding suit proudly carrying the rings

    The church service was perfect despite covid restrictions on hymn singing, but the organist rendition of one of the hymns in Welsh moved everyone

    The reception in the marquee worked a treat, and it may surprise some but we had guests from Scotland , England and Wales and there was wide consensus that all the politicians should have acted together and the political point scoring between the administrations was simply unacceptable

    No matter, politics was not on the agenda and it was just a happy and joyous day for each and everyone

    Glad you all had a great day. There's nothing like a good wedding, such a lovely hopeful occasion, with family and friends, food, drink and dancing. Emotional too. I am going to be an absolute mess if/when my kids get hitched! Best wishes to your son and daughter in law and all of your family.
    Thank you and I can say with certainty, as all three of our children are now married, that you will experience incredible emotions, but they are the best of all emotions
    That sounds great, G, congratulations.

    My 1st wedding remains the biggest set piece event of my life. About 200 guests, many of them exuberant anglo indians. I needed drink to do the speech but just about pulled it off. My dad cried his eyes out, my youngest brother overdid it and was sick, and my middle brother printed with a bridesmaid. I was only 24 years old. A kid really.
    Printed?! A Marxist pamphlet or something more artistic?
    :smile: - Sorry, old City phrase. Bit basic.
  • Why do the women race 100m hurdles and men 110m?

    Someone better remove those hurdles PDQ, they'll get in the way, surely.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,048

    Why do the women race 100m hurdles and men 110m?

    No more than historical reasons, it seems.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/110_metres_hurdles
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    edited August 2021
    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,348

    HYUFD has successfully dragged PBers into his own insanity vortex. Brings back wonderful memories of Scottish tanks and hot broth.

    Now I am back to visions of HYFUD, by the roadside on the A78, in the pouring rain, trying to kick some life back into a solitary Covenanter tank...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    edited August 2021
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
    a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
    b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
    c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important
    Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

    There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html
  • HYUFD has successfully dragged PBers into his own insanity vortex. Brings back wonderful memories of Scottish tanks and hot broth.

    Now I am back to visions of HYFUD, by the roadside on the A78, in the pouring rain, trying to kick some life back into a solitary Covenanter tank...
    I had HYUFD down as more of a Crusader...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,026
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?
    The rules now are that you firstly apply to the Court that has dealt with the matter for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. That application involved a hearing at which Murray was represented by the Dean of Faculty, Roddy Dunlop QC. The application was refused. You then apply to the Supreme Court itself who can choose to hear the case if they consider it in the public interest or if it raises a matter of sufficient importance. My experience of that predates the current rules but my understanding is that this is a paper exercise with a written submission. That has also now been refused.
    Refused by whom, the SC?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    Good grief even that is nonsense. Australia exports 0.8% of the worlds brussels exports and the UK exports 1.1% of the worlds brussel exports so not a great deal of difference.

    Whisky (not whiskey because that is Irish or American) and Cider makes perfect sense, but most of the other things you have mentioned are plain nuts.

    You still want to export lamb to New Zealand?

    Here is a thought re brussels: We have green beans all year round. We import them from Kenya and other places to ensure we have an all year round supply. Brussels are only sold when in season. Do you wonder why that is and when you come to a conclusion then apply that logic to exporting them to Australia and New Zealand.

    I'm not denying there may be niche markets, but they really will be niche.
    In fairness there is some sale in the UK of frozen sprouts - but I am not sure how seasonal that is. And a lot of that is institutional food not the high value fresh market.
    I've never noticed a shortage of whisky in Australia; shortage of decent beer maybe. New Zealand did, but we make their type here now, suing their recipes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,651
    Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

    Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

    You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

    There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.
    I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

    Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU
    They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

    https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

    And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.
    That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
    https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

    EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)
    Lets look at exports then

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/
    Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand
    Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

    It's so incredibly childish.
    I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

    If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

    https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export
    You are wrong.

    On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

    What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

    You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.
    Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

    I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    edited August 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.
    I was thinking of frost damage after being in frozen shipping containers, ie the only practical way of getting our sprouts down under.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,500
    edited August 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

    Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....
    More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

    Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.
    The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.
    thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.
    It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg
    Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
    What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.
    We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

    Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
    Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

    I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
    For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.
    You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

    Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

    Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.
    The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, the Australians do with us now and soon so will New Zealand, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

    There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand
    Ye gods, my comment was a joke to be ignored, but it has since sprouted a multitude of comments. I clearly need to improve.
  • pingping Posts: 1,679
    @DavidL

    The Craig Murray trial seems bonkers to me. As he said, Kafkaesque.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,079
    kinabalu said:

    Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

    It's too early to tell at the moment. one of the swimmers might have a big shout but we still have the velodrome and most of the athletics to come.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296
    kinabalu said:

    Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

    I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,567
    edited August 2021
    Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    edited August 2021

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

    So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296
    spudgfsh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

    It's too early to tell at the moment. one of the swimmers might have a big shout but we still have the velodrome and most of the athletics to come.
    I think Daley, Peaty, Cavendish and Whitlock are nailed on to be nominated.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,348

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    I expect that Britain's agricultural exports to NZ would be restricted to a few high end artisan products. NZ has the best climate in the world for the sort of stuff that we grow, far cheaper land and most efficient agriculture. Any loosening is far more likely to be agricultural produce coming the other way.

    Though I believe that NZ didn't use to use all its lamb Tarrif Free Quota for export to us when we were in the EU.

    There are plenty of manufactured goods and services however New Zealand will want from us which it does not have and there is only so much New Zealand lamb we want
    For those of us in the animal welfare corner the contrast with the reported Australia deal is interesting. Australia has some callous welfare standards which are nonetheless cost-efficient (feed lots, battery cages) so we and the farmers worry that they'll undercut us. New Zealand has at least comparable welfare standards to ours, possibly superior, so we hope that they'll pull us up. In both cases, though, the volume of trade is relatively small and these are the warm-up acts for the Trans-Pacific, Canadian and Mexican deals, with the colossal but elusive US deal and Mercosur rounding off the main list.

    The main worry about the Australian deal is really that it'll make it harder to avoid giving the same easy ride to low-welfare environment-killing American (not just US) producers. To make it even more complicated, some US producers are very high-welfare, better than most of ours - because US law is mostly at state level, the difference from California to Iowa is huge. So we want a deal offering zero tariffs for high welfare - which separates us from the NFU, who (as a trade union for all types of farmer) just want us all to buy British even when the welfare standard is low.

    In principle free trade is always sensible, though, so where standards in things we care about are broadly similar, it makes sense. I doubt if the NZ deal will attract much opposition.
    Yes but I think Australia and NZ deals will be the obvious quick wins, welfare concerns with the former nothwithstanding.

    The Canadian deal has also been done already I believe and carried over from the EU deal.

    A UK-US trade deal however I cannot see happening before the next election, Biden is not as enthusiastic as Trump was and that is before it even got to Congress which would take an age to approve it
    Yes, I agree, unless the mid-terms are surprisingly good for the Democrats to the point where the moderates could carry a new fast-track mandate, which seems unlikely. The Trans-Pacific deal is the next substantial one on the horizon.
    I don't think that the Democrats will touch a big international trade deal. It is a Fatcher-Saved-By-Falkands level belief on the left of the party that NAFTA and the export of jobs to China led to the rise of Trumpism. See Bernie etc.

    The Mad and Bad sections of the Republicans will be on the same, protectionist, side on this issue.

    The right of the Dems and the Internationalist republicans that are left are not a big enough group. Remember that any such deal will need a 2/3rd vote in favour in the Senate. With more than half the Dems base against and most of the Republican base against......

    To put it another way - if you are a US Senator. What are the upsides for voting for an international trade deal, for you?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296

    Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

    Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833

    YouTube has barred Sky News Australia from uploading new content for a week, saying it had breached rules on spreading Covid-19 misinformation.

    Some anecdata from Sydney.

    My 28 Yr old nephew there was pinged into isolation for being in a supermarket at the same time as someone who tested positive.

    He has had the AZ vaccine, which is freely available it seems as the locals won't touch it.

    He was there for a year, but covid seems on the way to giving him permanent residency as he is entering his third year. He is looking good on it, and hasn't much reason to return to the old country.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,845
    Leon said:

    Olympics. Considering the medal table and specifically the ratio of Gold to Silver medals, it is notable how efficiently Japan and Australia have converted their contenders into winners.

    Rank    Country         Gold    Silver  Bronze  Total
    1 China 23 14 12 49
    2 USA 20 20 14 54
    3 Japan 17 5 8 30
    4 Australia 14 3 14 31
    5 ROC 11 15 12 38
    6 Great Britain 9 10 12 31
    7 Korea 5 4 7 16
    8 France 4 10 6 20
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    My Aussie family are sending me regular updates on their success. Damn them

    Also, love them. The Aussies are great. I’m glad we can now admit they’re our best friends and we don’t have to pretend it’s really the Bulgarians or the French
    … or the Scots.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,820
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
    a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
    b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
    c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important
    Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

    There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html
    You are absolutely barking. You did not understand a word of what I said.

    Why would a New Zealander buy an expensive frozen brussel sprout when they could grow fresh cheaper ones?

    To get there it will have to be frozen and because sprouts are a low cost item the overhead of transport will be a significant percentage. Lamb is an expensive item so the cost of transport is a much lower percentage of the cost, so if you can produce it cheaper you can get a competitive price even with the transport. Hence we buy NZ lamb. It obviously doesn't work for brussels because of their low value.

    See my question re Kenya green beans whereas we don't get brussels from elsewhere out of season.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,567
    edited August 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

    Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.
    Yes, good call. Even he couldn't get close to it after he did it.

    Actually, long jump still stands as well from 30 years ago. Do they get close?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,845

    ‘We love Scotland, it’s the SNP we hate. Nevertheless Scotland is a shit place that no one wants to move to.’

    Shades of the ‘it’s not Europe it’s the EU’ mob. Not the same people of course, oh no, certainly not.

    It’s not so much that their mask slips as that they have misplaced the mask and given up looking for it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833
    Carnyx said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.
    Yes, parsnips too as the frost sweetens them by breaking up starches.

    But does anyone eat sprouts apart from Christmas dinner?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,062

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

    That really is a must read.

    Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.
    Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

    https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21
    I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

    The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

    The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

    I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.
    Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?
    The rules now are that you firstly apply to the Court that has dealt with the matter for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. That application involved a hearing at which Murray was represented by the Dean of Faculty, Roddy Dunlop QC. The application was refused. You then apply to the Supreme Court itself who can choose to hear the case if they consider it in the public interest or if it raises a matter of sufficient importance. My experience of that predates the current rules but my understanding is that this is a paper exercise with a written submission. That has also now been refused.
    Refused by whom, the SC?
    Yes. There will be a written decision confirming the refusal but that is normally very brief.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,348
    ping said:

    @DavidL

    The Craig Murray trial seems bonkers to me. As he said, Kafkaesque.

    The really fun bit is the suggested abolition of Juries for rape trials.

    When that doesn't achieve the aim, I presume the next idea up is the reversal of the presumption of innocence. Some have already demanded that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    HYUFD said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

    So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports
    Colleagues, this is bordering on bullying. Apart from the fact that HYUFD is standing up for himself, albeit with increasing wild and insupportable statements.

    But, car manufacture stopped in Australasia because the Japanese were doing it better and cheaper. And shipping costs from Japan are lower.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,296

    tlg86 said:

    Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

    Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.
    Yes, good call. Even he couldn't get close to it after he did it.

    Actually, long jump still stands as well from 30 years ago. Do they get close?
    Christian Taylor - who I saw in 2017 - got quite close in 2015.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,833
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
    a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
    b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
    c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important
    Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

    There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html
    You are absolutely barking. You did not understand a word of what I said.

    Why would a New Zealander buy an expensive frozen brussel sprout when they could grow fresh cheaper ones?

    To get there it will have to be frozen and because sprouts are a low cost item the overhead of transport will be a significant percentage. Lamb is an expensive item so the cost of transport is a much lower percentage of the cost, so if you can produce it cheaper you can get a competitive price even with the transport. Hence we buy NZ lamb. It obviously doesn't work for brussels because of their low value.

    See my question re Kenya green beans whereas we don't get brussels from elsewhere out of season.
    Does anyone know the current tariff imposed by NZ on our Sprout exporters? 🤔
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,822
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.
    Yes, parsnips too as the frost sweetens them by breaking up starches.

    But does anyone eat sprouts apart from Christmas dinner?
    I do! Often.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,845

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    The Scottish population is up by 11.9% over the last ~century.

    By way of comparison the English population is +59.8% over the same period (and this is the sole reason for the public funding imbalance, the difference in population growth, the Barnett formula is actually intended to eliminate the difference that arose as a result).

    And, for completeness since the comparison with Japan was made initially, their population is +124.5% over the last century.
    I realise that Willy Waving Competitions are de rigeur around here, but you are deep into straw man territory.

    I was simply countering squareroot2’s post: “I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus”. To which the answer is: no.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

    So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports
    I didn’t ignore it.
    NZ mostly imports cars from Japan, but luxury marques are of course importer to some extent from the U.K.

    I just was interested in your idea that NZ would be importing “milk, venison, brussel sprouts”.

    Btw, according to the trade stats Australia simply doesn’t import brussel sprouts. NZ imported about £60k worth last year — from Australia.

    The U.K. imports much more brussel sprouts than it exports.

    Would you like me to do milk now?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    edited August 2021
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.
    Yes, parsnips too as the frost sweetens them by breaking up starches.

    But does anyone eat sprouts apart from Christmas dinner?
    I quite like them. We have them quite a lot in season. Raw, sometimes, too.

    Parsnips, on the other hand.....roasted yes, but otherwise ugh!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,440
    That BMX gold routine from Charlotte Worthington was incredible. Max Whitlock as well.

    Good return from our BMX team, two golds, a silver and a bronze.

    Between them and the swimmers they've really managed make up for our rowing failure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

    It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

    NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

    That’s about it.

    Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

    It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

    However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand
    I am aware yes.
    They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

    Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.
    Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd
    a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
    b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
    c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important
    Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

    There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html
    You are absolutely barking. You did not understand a word of what I said.

    Why would a New Zealander buy an expensive frozen brussel sprout when they could grow fresh cheaper ones?

    To get there it will have to be frozen and because sprouts are a low cost item the overhead of transport will be a significant percentage. Lamb is an expensive item so the cost of transport is a much lower percentage of the cost, so if you can produce it cheaper you can get a competitive price even with the transport. Hence we buy NZ lamb. It obviously doesn't work for brussels because of their low value.

    See my question re Kenya green beans whereas we don't get brussels from elsewhere out of season.
    As New Zealand barely produces any brussels sprouts of any significant quantities, we do produce a fair amount of lamb in the UK however, though it is not our most popular meat.

    Lamb is an expensive meat with or without transportation costs, hence British consumers don't buy much of it relative to say chicken anyway so they are not suddenly going to buy New Zealand lamb with every meal.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,900
    edited August 2021
    Interesting wine debate.

    Looking it up, we are one of the top 10 wine exporters in the world - or thereabouts.

    Export volume is 3 or 4 times UK wine production, so clearly a lot of bulk->bottle going on.

    I'd surmise that quite a lot of that is Australian, as stuff we drink from Oz gets here that way. I wonder the impact of the FTA on that?



    Source: https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/31/the-worlds-largest-wine-exporting-countries-by-value-in-2018/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,930

    Sprouts, FFS.

    Always fun when HYUFD is on a roll.

    Lots of hiking in NZ. Maybe we can export a load of Kendal Mint Cake?

    As endorsed by a famous mountaineer of NZ origin.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,845

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Not least, the equity markets are long overdue a major correction.

    I see no particular reason why asset prices should nosedive so long as interest rates remain close to zero. If leaving money in the bank means that its value gradually gets inflated away, people who have wealth are always going to want to invest it elsewhere.

    I also see no particular reason why interest rates should rise significantly. Many or most governments, businesses and individuals are more heavily indebted than ever because of the pandemic. What incentive is there for central banks to strangle their economies by cranking up the cost of servicing those debts?
    How sweet. You think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates.

    And “elsewhere” does not have to be equity.
    Actually, yes, I do.

    And there is nowhere else to go, apart from sovereign bonds which will simply serve to continue to depress yields. If, theoretically, everyone tried to pile into property there wouldn't be enough of it in the world to meet the demand.

    Any post-pandemic burst of inflation is liable to be temporary. The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates.
    The future is Japan: low inflation, low growth, rock bottom interest rates…

    … rock bottom reproduction rates, near zero immigration, old and rapidly aging population unable to be supported by shrinking labour pool.

    In other words, an unhealthy society.

    Greens will love the “low growth” bit though.
    Schoolinh result
    But you’re wrong if you think that central banks can indefinitely control interest rates. The real economic truths always fell the proud in the end.
    Isn't Scotland like tgat save for early deaths due to drink and drugs add appalling schooling and a Govt akin to Japan.. almost but not quite twins....
    . .
    Scotland differs from Japan in a multitude of ways, not least of which is the immigration factor. Scotland has a strong flow of immigrants.
    I thought that was surplanted by an even bigger exodus
    Nope.

    Evolution of the population of Scotland 1954–2014. Data from National Records of Scotland 2014.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mid-year_Estimates_of_Scotland's_Population_54-14.png

    1500 500,000
    1600 800,000
    1707 1,000,000
    1755 1,265,380
    1801 1,608,420
    1811 1,805,864
    1821 2,091,521
    1831 2,364,386
    1841 2,620,184
    1851 2,888,742
    1861 3,062,294
    1871 3,360,018
    1881 3,735,578
    1891 4,025,647
    1901 4,472,103
    1911 4,760,904
    1921 4,882,407
    1931 4,842,989
    1939 5,006,700
    1951 5,095,969
    1961 5,179,000
    1971 5,229,000
    1981 5,035,000
    1991 5,083,000
    2001 5,062,000
    2011 5,295,000
    2019 5,463,300
    That’s really interesting. So only 10% up on the 1939 population? Wonder what looks like for England?
    This may pain you to hear, but England is not everybody’s sole point of reference.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    MaxPB said:

    That BMX gold routine from Charlotte Worthington was incredible. Max Whitlock as well.

    Good return from our BMX team, two golds, a silver and a bronze.

    Between them and the swimmers they've really managed make up for our rowing failure.

    None of them went to Oxbridge, either.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,847
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Talking of edifices which have run out of luck:

    ‘Scotland's most striking castle on tiny remote island for sale at just £1’

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/scotlands-most-striking-castle-tiny-21194439.amp

    Hate to be pedantic, but that headline is riddled with porkies:
    1. it is not a “castle”, it is a late Victorian estate house
    2. it is not “striking”, it is horrifically ugly and completely out of place in its environment
    3. in a list of Scotland’s “most striking” structures, it wouldn’t make the top 5000
    4. Rum is not tiny; it is the largest island in its archipelago
    5. It is not for sale (even the article itself explicitly says that “Kinloch Castle is not currently on the open market for sale”)
    6. It does not cost £1

    So, in summary, the only remotely truthful assertion is that Rum is “remote”, although even that is nonsense if you happen to live in Eigg, Skye or Mallaig. And “remoteness” is a function of demography, politics and fashions in transportation. Rum was very central if you were a competent seafarer during the Lordship of the Isles.

    This is the very peak of junk journalism. A primary school child could write a better article. The culprit? The despicable Reach plc. What a bunch of chancers.

    I've been there and had a good look aroiund and can only concur. I'd add

    7. It's in a temperate rain forest - very often pishing it down with midges and clegs (about 66inches a year, though I assume that's down on the low ground near the castle at Kinloch - will be higher oin the high ground). I remember staying there many uyears ago with the bathroom window open on a calm misty evening: not a mistake I made again. (The trees were previously eradicated: are being replaced.)
    8. Direct ferry to Mallaig.
    9. No mention of a transfer/buyout by the community.

    PS> Still a great island to explore.
    I wanna do the ridge walk, what the call the Rum Cuillin, next year.

    It does seem to have its own particularly shit microclimate there, even by comparison with its near neighbours.
    The weather does vary!

    I never did the full ridge walk - but just going up Allival and Askival and then down Glen Dibidil and back by the almost coastal path was a huge treat on a clear blue sunny day. However, it's also good to walk across the island to Bloodstone Hill - great views of Canna and the Long Isle etc.

    One caveat - check restrictions relating to the deer population and research on it - I haven't been for a long time but at that time one could not go into a certain area except at set times (Sunday for instance).
    I've camped on Hallival but for some weird reason managed to climb Ainshval and not Askival. The weather was set fair for the week and it was April, so no midges. I'm not inclined to go back in order to get rained on!

    The 'castle' is an anachronism, but part of the history of the Hebrides. Is it out of place? No more than a modern bungalow with a tiled roof is. I know that that land ownership in the islands is a touchy subject but trying to erase the past is a losing game. The Bond villain vibes are part of the attraction (Alligators! Racing cars!). Shame about the iron frame (whoever thought that was a good idea in that climate?). Without it there would be many fewer visitors to the island and without them I'm not entirely sure how the place is sustainable.

    If you remove it entirely what are you left with? A deer research project and a lot of Shearwaters, plus a few cattle for conservation. A trickle of people doing the Cuillin isn't going to provide much income, and 'community wind turbines' aren't going to happen in an NNR.

    Who has the money, though? Only another Bond villain. Does Elon Musk fancy it?


    Actually, the topography is great for hydroelectricity - of some vintage: the castle was electrified with pipes up to a corrie part way up the hill to the south. The pipes were being renewed when I visited in, maybe, 1995 or so. The pipeline seems to have grown over but it's I think visible as the angular line next to the allt running from SW to Ne toward Kinloch.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mallaig/@57.0073488,-6.2950684,1707m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x488c02cb3c55c4fb:0xbed7e076ff890803!8m2!3d57.003813!4d-5.827173
    Yes, I believe it was one of the first houses in the world to have electric lighting thanks to the hydro scheme.

    It surely couldn't be large scale though, only run of river, and there isn't the catchment for a large scheme (probably not allowed anyway). I doubt there's enough to power the village, and the burns do run pretty dry in some summers.

    How many live there now? It was only 20 or so when I was there. Eigg has about 100 I think?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,079
    tlg86 said:

    Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

    Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.
    The triple jump WR is somewhere near the limit of human ability (a bit like the 100m record). it moved 8 cm between 1975 and 1995 (before Edwards broke 18m). only 6 people have made a legal (not wind assisted) jump over 18m. it'll probably reach near 18.50m in my lifetime but will struggle to get to 19m
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,222
    MattW said:

    Interesting wine debate.

    Looking it up, we are one of the top 10 wine exporters in the world - or thereabouts.

    Export volume is 3 or 4 times UK wine production, so clearly a lot of bulk->bottle going on.

    I'd surmise that quite a lot of that is Australian, as stuff we drink from Oz gets here that way. I wonder the impact of the FTA on that?


    There is a large U.K. wine brokerage trade.
    I think London may even be the world’s biggest centre for such.

    Mostly France > London > Rest of World.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,977

    HYUFD said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

    So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports
    I didn’t ignore it.
    NZ mostly imports cars from Japan, but luxury marques are of course importer to some extent from the U.K.

    I just was interested in your idea that NZ would be importing “milk, venison, brussel sprouts”.

    Btw, according to the trade stats Australia simply doesn’t import brussel sprouts. NZ imported about £60k worth last year — from Australia.

    The U.K. imports much more brussel sprouts than it exports.

    Would you like me to do milk now?
    No we wouldn’t. That’s a whole udder conversation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,210

    HYUFD said:

    Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

    The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

    Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

    As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

    So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports
    Colleagues, this is bordering on bullying. Apart from the fact that HYUFD is standing up for himself, albeit with increasing wild and insupportable statements.

    But, car manufacture stopped in Australasia because the Japanese were doing it better and cheaper. And shipping costs from Japan are lower.
    The UK is the 6th biggest car exporter to Australia already after Japan, Thailand, South Korea, Germany and the US
    https://www.caradvice.com.au/667954/passports-please-where-do-australias-cars-come-from/
This discussion has been closed.