The growing NHS waiting list is arguably the Tories’ biggest challenge – politicalbetting.com

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

SandyRentool said:

LostPassword said:

Flatlander said:

tlg86 said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

northern_monkey said:

Casino_Royale said:

Quincel said:

Pulpstar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.

I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour.
Really amazing how fast these boys go.

I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.

Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.

I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!

What puts me off cycling?

Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.

They really are tossers.

I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.

They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.

It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road:
- Single line of 12 riders
- 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long
- 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long

It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.

This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.

Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.

I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.

I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.

I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.

The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.

Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.

Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.

To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.

Sample size 1:

Hit whilst commuting: 2
Hit whilst touring: 0
Broken bones: 0
Smashed helmets: 1

[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]


Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.

I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.

Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1

Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.

Leon said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.

Ireland got a gold. IRELAND

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.

England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.

“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.

Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.

Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/07/26/england-face-prospect-ashes-tour-withdrawals-covid-protocols/

pigeon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.

England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.

“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.

Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.

Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/07/26/england-face-prospect-ashes-tour-withdrawals-covid-protocols/

This was a topic of discussion in Chez Pigeon the other evening. It's a live possibility that part or all of Australia will still be in full lockdown come December; when their travel barriers get relaxed is more a matter of which year than which month.

Husband reckons either the Ashes get scrubbed or England send a second string side made up entirely of single blokes who are willing to put up with being imprisoned for two months, including all through Christmas of course. Either decision means that the TV rights will be unsaleable, because there's nothing to show or because it won't be a contest, quite possibly bankrupting both the Australian and England and Wales Cricket Boards as a result.

Still, after the torpedoing of the Rugby League World Cup by the antipodeans, why anyone on this side of the world would budge an inch to accommodate their requirements Lord alone knows.

MattW said:

SandyRentool said:

LostPassword said:

Flatlander said:

tlg86 said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

northern_monkey said:

Casino_Royale said:

Quincel said:

Pulpstar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.

I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour.
Really amazing how fast these boys go.

I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.

Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.

I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!

What puts me off cycling?

Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.

They really are tossers.

I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.

They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.

It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road:
- Single line of 12 riders
- 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long
- 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long

It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.

This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.

Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.

I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.

I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.

I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.

The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.

Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.

Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.

To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.

Sample size 1:

Hit whilst commuting: 2
Hit whilst touring: 0
Broken bones: 0
Smashed helmets: 1

[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]


Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.

I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.

Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1

Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.

Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

DecrepiterJohnL said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

ThomasNashe said:

I thought the way Kye Whyte celebrated Beth Shriever’s win was just lovely. The spirit of the Olympics at its best is unique, so free of the cynicism of other more professionalised and monied sports.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.

ThomasNashe said:

I thought the way Kye Whyte celebrated Beth Shriever’s win was just lovely. The spirit of the Olympics at its best is unique, so free of the cynicism of other more professionalised and monied sports.

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol

https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

pigeon said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol

https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.

Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)

It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.

JohnLilburne said:

MattW said:

SandyRentool said:

LostPassword said:

Flatlander said:

tlg86 said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

Flatlander said:

AlistairM said:

northern_monkey said:

Casino_Royale said:

Quincel said:

Pulpstar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.

I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour.
Really amazing how fast these boys go.

I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.

Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.

I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!

What puts me off cycling?

Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.

They really are tossers.

I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.

They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.

It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road:
- Single line of 12 riders
- 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long
- 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long

It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.

This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.

Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.

I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.

I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.

I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.

The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.

Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.

Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.

To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.

Sample size 1:

Hit whilst commuting: 2
Hit whilst touring: 0
Broken bones: 0
Smashed helmets: 1

[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]


Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.

I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.

Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1

Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.

Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...

I once saw a cyclist attempt to cycle the wrong way round Trafalgar Square. He ended up having words with a policeman carrying a submachine gun.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox

Carnyx said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)

It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.

That rings a bell - and here is an example of a coastal rowing club.

http://www.lymeregisgigclub.com/

And the real hard persons row old style whaleboats etc. A colleague of mine had come up through the Sea Cadets on the Firth of Forth and that is what they rowed, not some wimpy GRP four.

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox

It is STILL complete nonsense

Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country

UCL

Its rowing club has.... 196 members.

https://studentsunionucl.org/clubs-societies/boat-club?sku=CSC-MEMBERSHIP-2021-NID-82130-NOVICES

And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country

But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)

50 x 200 = 10,000

Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)

That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?

20,000

Not 600,000-800,000

lol

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)

It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.

Leon said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.

Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.

Might not the two things be linked?

The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?

Alphabet_Soup said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)

It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.

Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?

No, the whole point of our funding structure - and this is actually written down as SportUK's official position - is that we reward athletes and sports who deliver medals, and will deliver more.

Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.

Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering

Have I found your Achilles heal of chippyness here? Did some posh chick from a rowing club once turn down your advances for being too plebeian?

I do have a chippy streak, or at least a bit of a hidden communist, which occasionally emerges.

I'm not upset by rowing per se, I couldn't give a fuck. But I do resent privileged sports getting public money if they then fail to deliver medals

Some idiot woman who runs UKSport is now saying "it's not all about medals, it's about inspiring stories"

No, love, when it comes to rowing, it really is all about medals. At Olympics. No one gives a toss at any other time or in any other way. The Olympics is IT.

pigeon said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"

Jesus

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1420981073765232642?s=20

MATE YOU HAD FIVE YEARS

You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.

Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.

@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.

It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.

Omnium said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)

It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.

Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.

I can't imagine that sort of thing. Perhaps a tub.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox

It is STILL complete nonsense

Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country

UCL

Its rowing club has.... 196 members.

https://studentsunionucl.org/clubs-societies/boat-club?sku=CSC-MEMBERSHIP-2021-NID-82130-NOVICES

And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country

But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)

50 x 200 = 10,000

Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)

That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?

20,000

Not 600,000-800,000

lol

You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox

It is STILL complete nonsense

Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country

UCL

Its rowing club has.... 196 members.

https://studentsunionucl.org/clubs-societies/boat-club?sku=CSC-MEMBERSHIP-2021-NID-82130-NOVICES

And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country

But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)

50 x 200 = 10,000

Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)

That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?

20,000

Not 600,000-800,000

lol

You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.

tlg86 said:

Leon said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.

Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.

Might not the two things be linked?

The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?

They’re only limited in terms of live streams. They can show what they like and can show non-live coverage too. But they seem to have made a complete pig’s ear of their coverage so far.

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

pigeon said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol

https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.

Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.

Yes, I agree

I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!

But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie

Isn't that exactly what happens after every Olympics? That's certainly the impression given on the recent excellent BBC series Gold Rush.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

tlg86 said:

I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.

Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money

Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal

HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure

Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?

No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best

I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth


And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up

If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers

Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?

I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?

The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol


https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/

Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.

I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it

It is a tiny minority sport.

If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous

They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea

It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox

It is STILL complete nonsense

Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country

UCL

Its rowing club has.... 196 members.

https://studentsunionucl.org/clubs-societies/boat-club?sku=CSC-MEMBERSHIP-2021-NID-82130-NOVICES

And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country

But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)

50 x 200 = 10,000

Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)

That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?

20,000

Not 600,000-800,000

lol

You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.

I really haven't changed any terms


In terms of rowing, actual proper rowing on rivers and lakes (not hiring a pedalo in the park) I've suggested a ball park figure of maybe 20,000 fairly regular participants

I suspect even that is generous, but I'll go with it

It is so far from the 600,000-800,000 that rowing is claiming that the disparity needs some explanation. My guess is: they are lying, to make their sport seem more important, and they are doing it in a spectacularly clumsy way by including people who go to gyms who might use a rowing machine

What's your ballpark figure? How many regular competitive rowers are there, in the UK?

Daveyboy1961 said:

tlg86 said:

Leon said:

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.

Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.

Might not the two things be linked?

The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?

They’re only limited in terms of live streams. They can show what they like and can show non-live coverage too. But they seem to have made a complete pig’s ear of their coverage so far.

As a BBC supporter (normally) I have to agree. The BBC coverage should be chock-a-block with sports coverage, I don't want to here about back stories and "there theres". It's not just Claire Balding, the Alex woman is just as bad (can't remember her surname), she's no different to when she's on The One Show, a non-sporting show.

dixiedean said:

Sports funding.
I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus.
Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces.
Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation.
Number of medal chances 2.
Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero.
Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.

Benpointer said:

dixiedean said:

Sports funding.
I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus.
Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces.
Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation.
Number of medal chances 2.
Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero.
Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.

Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.