I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.
Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.
Protect your brain.
Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?
We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Entirely possible but I would caution against backing any cyclists until we've a better idea of who is nominated. There are just too many of them.
And yet they refuse to change course to get more medals
"Plus: British Rowing confirms it will not reintroduce an authoritarian approach to producing Olympic champions"
All that is fine, of course. If you want a culture where you give all the athletes quails eggs for losing, and teach them about diversity instead of putting them in boats, you go ahead. Knck yourself out - very softly.
Thing is, as that article reveals, rowing gets £25 MILLION of our money, more than any other Olympic sport. I can think of many ways British sport can spend twenty five million quid, which will get a return for the nation which is better than one silver and one bronze every four years in a sport which is already bloody boring.
Take away all of their money. Take it away now. Let them live on their woke wits
Hold on though. From that story you linked to, the change of coach was not wokeism gone mad but old age. Rowing HQ wanted the big bad coach to stay on.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.
Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.
Protect your brain.
Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?
We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Entirely possible but I would caution against backing any cyclists until we've a better idea of who is nominated. There are just too many of them.
If Laura Kenny gets a gold then she’s nailed on to be nominated and has a decent chance of winning.
If Schriever is our only female gold, she is nailed on to be nominated.
Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.
I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour. Really amazing how fast these boys go.
I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.
Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.
I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!
What puts me off cycling?
Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.
They really are tossers.
I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.
They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.
It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road: - Single line of 12 riders - 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long - 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long
It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.
This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.
Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.
I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.
I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.
I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.
The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.
Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.
Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.
To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.
Sample size 1:
Hit whilst commuting: 2 Hit whilst touring: 0 Broken bones: 0 Smashed helmets: 1
[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]
Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.
I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.
Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1
Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.
Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...
I could do plenty of pieces and betting threads on 'Could Starmer lose a 28,000 majority seat in a by election?'
"My comrades and friends, in Poplar and Limehouse, and beyond, have stood by me, I have and will always stand by them."
Always good to see the word comrades being used.
And if you look at the whole quotation, it is surely noteworthy that Sky News has to explain exactly who this "Johnson" is:-
"I would now like to get on with my job of representing my constituents - opposing the negligent COVID decisions made by (Prime Minister Boris) Johnson's reckless Tory government which has caused so many families to lose loved ones who should still be with us today and so much hardship that could have been avoided.
"My comrades and friends, in Poplar and Limehouse, and beyond, have stood by me, I have and will always stand by them."
There is clearly a concerted effort by the Labour Party to refer to 'Johnson', presumably to neutralise the cheery 'Boris' image. Unfortunately, as the Sky news explanation shows, 'Boris' is so ingrained that criticsing 'Johnson' simply makes the only-casually-listening voter think 'who?'
Yes, I noticed Rachel Reeves calling him ‘Prime Minister Johnson’ a few weeks ago. It took me a while to clock who she was talking about, and the result was to give Boris an air of statesmanlike authority I’d never really associated with him
Yes, if this is a Labour stratagem to rebrand Boris as Johnson, they might not have thought it through, since it also rebrands amiable fuckwit Boris as serious statesman Johnson.
He'll never be a serious statesman with that haircut.
He'll never be a serious statesman with that haircut or without it.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.
Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.
Protect your brain.
Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?
We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.
The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
I remember looking at such evidence a few years back, and it seemed unconvincing. Then again I'm firmly in the-wear-a-helmet-you-brainless-git camp
The argument you mention above totally ignores the fact I mentioned below: impact with cars is only one way a cyclist can come a cropper. They can fall off on their own behalf.
This is a cognitive dissonance I see amongst keen cyclists around here: any accident they may suffer from is always someone else's fault. They are perfect riders ...
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.
England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.
“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.
Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.
Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.
I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.
England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.
“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.
Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.
Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.
This was a topic of discussion in Chez Pigeon the other evening. It's a live possibility that part or all of Australia will still be in full lockdown come December; when their travel barriers get relaxed is more a matter of which year than which month.
Husband reckons either the Ashes get scrubbed or England send a second string side made up entirely of single blokes who are willing to put up with being imprisoned for two months, including all through Christmas of course. Either decision means that the TV rights will be unsaleable, because there's nothing to show or because it won't be a contest, quite possibly bankrupting both the Australian and England and Wales Cricket Boards as a result.
Still, after the torpedoing of the Rugby League World Cup by the antipodeans, why anyone on this side of the world would budge an inch to accommodate their requirements Lord alone knows.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.
England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.
“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.
Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.
Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.
This was a topic of discussion in Chez Pigeon the other evening. It's a live possibility that part or all of Australia will still be in full lockdown come December; when their travel barriers get relaxed is more a matter of which year than which month.
Husband reckons either the Ashes get scrubbed or England send a second string side made up entirely of single blokes who are willing to put up with being imprisoned for two months, including all through Christmas of course. Either decision means that the TV rights will be unsaleable, because there's nothing to show or because it won't be a contest, quite possibly bankrupting both the Australian and England and Wales Cricket Boards as a result.
Still, after the torpedoing of the Rugby League World Cup by the antipodeans, why anyone on this side of the world would budge an inch to accommodate their requirements Lord alone knows.
If Stokes is out we can't win anyway, so, yeah, fuck it. Cancel it
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.
I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour. Really amazing how fast these boys go.
I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.
Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.
I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!
What puts me off cycling?
Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.
They really are tossers.
I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.
They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.
It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road: - Single line of 12 riders - 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long - 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long
It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.
This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.
Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.
I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.
I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.
I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.
The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.
Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.
Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.
To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.
Sample size 1:
Hit whilst commuting: 2 Hit whilst touring: 0 Broken bones: 0 Smashed helmets: 1
[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]
Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.
I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.
Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1
Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.
Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...
Remembering, I had a very near miss on the IOW. Cycling to collect something delivered to a local shop, I followed the road round a bend with a 4x4 tonka following. S/he assumed I was going into the Station car park and there was a huge squealing of tyres.
Now I would be more cautious and check over shoulder rather than assume a not-stupid driver.
I would wear a helmet were I doing eg a mountain bike circuit or something particularly with trees or overhanging hedges. And I would consider carefully were it to be an environment I thought questionable.
I'd consider myself more 'utility' than 'keen'. My longest regular trip is 17 miles and back again to Chesterfield.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?
No, the whole point of our funding structure - and this is actually written down as SportUK's official position - is that we reward athletes and sports who deliver medals, and will deliver more.
Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.
Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I used to row. Leon needs to consider the degree to which he likes be attached to his limbs...
I thought the way Kye Whyte celebrated Beth Shriever’s win was just lovely. The spirit of the Olympics at its best is unique, so free of the cynicism of other more professionalised and monied sports.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.
Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.
I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour. Really amazing how fast these boys go.
I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.
Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.
I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!
What puts me off cycling?
Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.
They really are tossers.
I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.
They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.
It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road: - Single line of 12 riders - 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long - 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long
It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.
This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.
Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.
I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.
I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.
I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.
The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.
Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.
Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.
To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.
Sample size 1:
Hit whilst commuting: 2 Hit whilst touring: 0 Broken bones: 0 Smashed helmets: 1
[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]
Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.
I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.
Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1
Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.
Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...
Remembering, I had a very near miss on the IOW. Cycling to collect something delivered to a local shop, I followed the road round a bend with a 4x4 tonka following. S/he assumed I was going into the Station car park and there was a huge squealing of tyres.
Now I would be more cautious and check over shoulder rather than assume a not-stupid driver.
I would wear a helmet were I doing eg a mountain bike circuit or something particularly with trees or overhanging hedges. And I would consider carefully were it to be an environment I thought questionable.
I'd consider myself more 'utility' than 'keen'. My longest regular trip is 17 miles and back again to Chesterfield.
Have you ever cycled up Hady Hill on the east side of Chesterfield?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?
No, the whole point of our funding structure - and this is actually written down as SportUK's official position - is that we reward athletes and sports who deliver medals, and will deliver more.
Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.
Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering
Have I found your Achilles heal of chippyness here? Did some posh chick from a rowing club once turn down your advances for being too plebeian?
I thought the way Kye Whyte celebrated Beth Shriever’s win was just lovely. The spirit of the Olympics at its best is unique, so free of the cynicism of other more professionalised and monied sports.
Which is exactly why it should be for amateur athletes, rather than the professionals we see in so many sports.
The Games should be the pinnacle of your career to that point, not just another date on your tour schedule.
I think this winter's Ashes maybe as farcical as the Packer players less Ashes in the 70s.
England’s senior cricketers are understood to want the ECB to issue an ultimatum to Australia’s board and effectively take on their government by saying that England will not contest the Ashes this winter if their players cannot take their families.
“Not too much can be said at the moment because things can change so quickly,” said a Professional Cricketers Association spokesperson on behalf of the England players, but it seems certain they will have to change if England are to tour Australia with their first-choice squad.
Cricket Australia are due to update the ECB in the next week about the protocols the Australian government will want in place for the next Ashes. England’s senior players want CA to know in advance their position about refusing to tour without their families, and for the ECB chief executive Tom Harrison to support them.
Otherwise, if this winter’s Ashes tour goes ahead under current protocols, the England players will be expected to turn back the clock more than half a century, to the 1960s, the last time they toured Australia without their wives and families. Even then an exception would usually be made for the England captain.
This was a topic of discussion in Chez Pigeon the other evening. It's a live possibility that part or all of Australia will still be in full lockdown come December; when their travel barriers get relaxed is more a matter of which year than which month.
Husband reckons either the Ashes get scrubbed or England send a second string side made up entirely of single blokes who are willing to put up with being imprisoned for two months, including all through Christmas of course. Either decision means that the TV rights will be unsaleable, because there's nothing to show or because it won't be a contest, quite possibly bankrupting both the Australian and England and Wales Cricket Boards as a result.
Still, after the torpedoing of the Rugby League World Cup by the antipodeans, why anyone on this side of the world would budge an inch to accommodate their requirements Lord alone knows.
Team of England singles: this could be fun.
Dom Sibley Haseeb Hameed Zak Crawley James Bracey (wkt) Dan Lawrence Ollie Pope Dom Bess (c) Saqib Mahmood Jofra Archer Ollie Stone Ethan Bamber
TSE would be so triggered by that batting lineup he would probably actually eat a pineapple pizza.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
If we take @Leon's view of rowing there must be a helluva lot of posho folk in Australia and New Zealand!
Andrew Neil @afneil · 3h There was a time when the Left demanded that journalists and commentators be free to say what they want regardless of the views of their proprietors, bosses, editors. It was right to demand this. But that time has gone. 1/2
I thought the way Kye Whyte celebrated Beth Shriever’s win was just lovely. The spirit of the Olympics at its best is unique, so free of the cynicism of other more professionalised and monied sports.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?
No, the whole point of our funding structure - and this is actually written down as SportUK's official position - is that we reward athletes and sports who deliver medals, and will deliver more.
Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.
Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering
Have I found your Achilles heal of chippyness here? Did some posh chick from a rowing club once turn down your advances for being too plebeian?
I do have a chippy streak, or at least a bit of a hidden communist, which occasionally emerges.
I'm not upset by rowing per se, I couldn't give a fuck. But I do resent privileged sports getting public money if they then fail to deliver medals
Some idiot woman who runs UKSport is now saying "it's not all about medals, it's about inspiring stories"
No, love, when it comes to rowing, it really is all about medals. At Olympics. No one gives a toss at any other time or in any other way. The Olympics is IT.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
Yes, I agree
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
If we take @Leon's view of rowing there must be a helluva lot of posho folk in Australia and New Zealand!
Not all people who row at Oxbridge and Durham will be posho.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.
Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.
Protect your brain.
Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?
We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.
The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
I remember looking at such evidence a few years back, and it seemed unconvincing. Then again I'm firmly in the-wear-a-helmet-you-brainless-git camp
The argument you mention above totally ignores the fact I mentioned below: impact with cars is only one way a cyclist can come a cropper. They can fall off on their own behalf.
This is a cognitive dissonance I see amongst keen cyclists around here: any accident they may suffer from is always someone else's fault. They are perfect riders ...
You can see it in dashcam (or cyclecam) footage on Youtube sometimes. Yes, mostly it's the driver's fault but sometimes you get the impression the cyclist is looking for trouble.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
Yes, Tom Daley should be our inspiration.
Four Olympics:
Nothing, Bronze, Bronze, Gold. And halfway through that sequence his dad (and coach) died and he came out as gay
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
That rings a bell - and here is an example of a coastal rowing club.
And the real hard persons row old style whaleboats etc. A colleague of mine had come up through the Sea Cadets on the Firth of Forth and that is what they rowed, not some wimpy GRP four.
Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.
I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour. Really amazing how fast these boys go.
I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.
Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.
I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!
What puts me off cycling?
Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.
They really are tossers.
I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.
They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.
It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road: - Single line of 12 riders - 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long - 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long
It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.
This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.
Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.
I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.
I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.
I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.
The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.
Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.
Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.
To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.
Sample size 1:
Hit whilst commuting: 2 Hit whilst touring: 0 Broken bones: 0 Smashed helmets: 1
[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]
Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.
I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.
Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1
Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.
Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...
I once saw a cyclist attempt to cycle the wrong way round Trafalgar Square. He ended up having words with a policeman carrying a submachine gun.
Cricky lad in the 10km running set off like he desperately needs the toilet.
I did 10,000 metres tuesday and thursday evening. Tuesday was a quick(ish) one for me and took ~ 53 and a half minutes, thursday just over an hour. Really amazing how fast these boys go.
I'm a 'transport cyclist', who cycles for my commute/shopping/etc but doesn't do any club riding or similar. Nonetheless, it keeps me in decent shape and I'm pretty comfortable in the saddle now.
Sometimes in the summer I go for leisure rides in the good weather, and my longest regular route is 26 miles, coincidentally almost exactly a marathon. I can do it in roughly 2 hours exactly, perhaps 2 hours 5 minutes at most. Which means that if I set off at the start of the marathon, on my bike, it would be a photo finish with the elite runners.
I know they are elite, but it still blows my mind. The bike is a pretty massive advantage!
What puts me off cycling?
Motorists (particularly white van man, and I'm never convinced it's safe on the road) and other cyclists - the lycra louts.
They really are tossers.
I do quite a bit of cycling, by myself, but what, as a motorist, really irritates me about the lycra louts is how they deem it acceptable to form a peloton, thus blocking the entire road, as if they were in the Tour de France. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the roads are closed for professional cycle races so the peloton doesn't enrage drivers who get caught behind it, pootling along at 20mph on a busy A road when it's impossible to get by.
They must be drivers too, the vast bulk of them, I can't understand why they can't appreciate how irritating it is.
It's so they can chat while riding. Plus there is another reason. Imagine a group of 12 cyclists in a club go out for a ride. They have several options of how they could be on the road: - Single line of 12 riders - 2 riders abreast, 6 bikes long - 3 riders abreast, 4 bikes long
It is easier to overtake the last of these rather than the first. The limiting factor being the length of the peloton rather than the width.
This is very true on a wide open A road. On a lot of small country roads, as preferred by cyclists (including me), there's often no safe way to overtake a large group for many miles.
Frustrating drivers leads to accidents. It shouldn't, but it does.
I agree on small country roads that riding in a big peloton must be frustrating to be stuck behind. I don't think you can put the blame on cyclists for accidents because drivers are impatient.
I don't have time to cycle much these days but when I did it was almost entirely solo and mostly on quiet country roads. I have lost count of the number of very dangerous maneuvers car drivers have made in their desperation to not slow down when getting past. The most common one is overtaking on blind corners. I do not know what goes through these drivers' minds when they go around a corner on the wrong side of the road without being able to see what is coming the other way. I have been witness to quite a few near misses.
I'm not saying this is the cyclist's fault as such. Incidents and near misses are indeed all too frequent, and I too have lost count of dangerous overtakes and close passes. I swear at cars with the best of them.
The problem is that deliberately blocking the road (as groups of cyclists are entirely permitted to) is like going into the wrong bar and saying the wrong thing. The person that punches you is at fault, but that doesn't help you get off the floor.
Having said that, I don't have statistics as to accidents per mile in a group as opposed to solo, so perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression.
Commuting in rush hour traffic is infinitely more dangerous than most leisure rides.
To my mind, cycling on country roads with speed limits at 40+ seems a lot scarier than urban/suburban cycling. But I suspect you're right that urban cycling is more dangerous.
Sample size 1:
Hit whilst commuting: 2 Hit whilst touring: 0 Broken bones: 0 Smashed helmets: 1
[Mountain bike crashes would actually top the table, but I don't think that counts]
Segregated infrastructure would help with the commuting, but most cycling infrastructure I see is designed by idiots who don't actually ride at all.
I'm also 2-0 on being hit while commuting vs touring, includes one bicycle that didn't wheel away from one incident. Thankfully no broken bones.
Ending up in a ditch after approaching a 90deg bend too fast: 1
Fortunately, that's the worst I've had.
Never been hit, but I did forget to unclip my shoes at a traffic light in Trafalgar Square...
I once saw a cyclist attempt to cycle the wrong way round Trafalgar Square. He ended up having words with a policeman carrying a submachine gun.
That's the way to treat urban cyclists. A lethal menace to pedestrians.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
If we take @Leon's view of rowing there must be a helluva lot of posho folk in Australia and New Zealand!
Not all people who row at Oxbridge and Durham will be posho.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
That rings a bell - and here is an example of a coastal rowing club.
And the real hard persons row old style whaleboats etc. A colleague of mine had come up through the Sea Cadets on the Firth of Forth and that is what they rowed, not some wimpy GRP four.
I think I recall that offshore rowing might become an Olympic event.
However, the oarsmen that rowed offshore were always at least as good as I was.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
Yes, Tom Daley should be our inspiration.
Four Olympics:
Nothing, Bronze, Bronze, Gold. And halfway through that sequence his dad (and coach) died and he came out as gay
THAT is bloody impressive. And gritty
I think you have *feelings* for him. I know I have 😂
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
Absolutely!
It's a good job we have real sports like BMX in it otherwise we wouldn't win anything
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
Might not the two things be linked?
The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
The State HS in Hexham has long had a rowing programme.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Sweden (you know the country that tops every league table going in terms of how super they are at life in general) have won exactly zero medals so far!!
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
Might not the two things be linked?
The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?
They’re only limited in terms of live streams. They can show what they like and can show non-live coverage too. But they seem to have made a complete pig’s ear of their coverage so far.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
Yes, I agree
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
Isn't that exactly what happens after every Olympics? That's certainly the impression given on the recent excellent BBC series Gold Rush.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
I can't imagine that sort of thing. Perhaps a tub.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Which to be fair, in the past it has, because normally we are good at it (we have been the top nation for three Olympics in a row (excuse pun)), I repeat TOP nation. To withdraw funding now, because they had a bad Olympics (and an odd one at that) would be a bit silly. Particularly silly if we said because it is "posho". Maybe we should lobby for darts?
No, the whole point of our funding structure - and this is actually written down as SportUK's official position - is that we reward athletes and sports who deliver medals, and will deliver more.
Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.
Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering
Have I found your Achilles heal of chippyness here? Did some posh chick from a rowing club once turn down your advances for being too plebeian?
I do have a chippy streak, or at least a bit of a hidden communist, which occasionally emerges.
I'm not upset by rowing per se, I couldn't give a fuck. But I do resent privileged sports getting public money if they then fail to deliver medals
Some idiot woman who runs UKSport is now saying "it's not all about medals, it's about inspiring stories"
No, love, when it comes to rowing, it really is all about medals. At Olympics. No one gives a toss at any other time or in any other way. The Olympics is IT.
It's definitely not about inspiring stories. This isn't the fucking X factor. Although Clare Balding seems to think the Olympics is one big human interest story.
I'm not dogmatic about how the pie is split. The approach of 'where is the niche we will get the best return in numbers of medals for our spending seems horribly mercenary. Some perfectly reasonable sports like weightlifting, seem to be arbitrarily underfunded on the grounds that we face too much competition in them. But the only argument for funding rowing is that it results in a lot of medals for GB.
We could take the approach of funding the sports least able to fund themselves. Or we could spend in the highest profile sports like athletics. Or we could spread the jam evenly.
But let's not try andinvest in stories. Sport is interesting enough for its own sake.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
You took a coxed four up the Cherwell? I've never heard it call that before.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.
My point was rowing is a sport that requires insane fitness and team coordination. Swimming is individual and yes they couldn't get in the pool for several weeks, but apparently Team GB straight away rebuilt their fitness programmes for land based fitness.
I am sure they did the fitness for rowing, but when you are rowing the timing being off by a tiny bit has massive impact on the boat. We saw that in the 4 who were all over the place (not just the finish).
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
You took a coxed four up the Cherwell? I've never heard it call that before.
Really interesting blog from 2017 or 18 about the state of UK rowing. In particular
"Secondly, few of those who are lucky enough to be identified and nurtured, as a future Olympian, ever see the inside of an ordinary boat club that relies on its own members and efforts for funding. With the opening of Caversham, they are tucked away in their own little bubble with little or no contact with the world outside. Occasionally they might be allowed out to row for their club in one of the Head of the River races, but this is the exception rather than the rule. Ordinary club athletes no longer get the opportunity to train alongside and gain experience from international athletes. When these internationals retire, the chances are that they too will walk away from the sport."
British Rowing claiming indoor rowing as part of their empire to inflate the numbers makes them look really sad.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
You took a coxed four up the Cherwell? I've never heard it call that before.
Re swimming...the other thing, all the top swimmers compete in ISL which continued to run during the pandemic. My understanding rowing, there has hardly been any elite level regattas.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
You took a coxed four up the Cherwell? I've never heard it call that before.
In sport we seem to be going through a phase of not just shrugging off failure but actually praising it - just look at the pathetic murals to the three England footballers who missed the penalties. I mean when I saw that I thought this country has gone bonkers. i mean its a bit creepy to do murals of anybody tbh but when they are done because they missed penalties is unbelievble
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
I can't imagine that sort of thing. Perhaps a tub.
It was an old clinker - weighed a ton. Manoeuvring it up the rollers at Parsons' Pleasure (stop sniggering at the back) required a combination of heft and dexterity rarely seen on the Isis.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I really haven't changed any terms
In terms of rowing, actual proper rowing on rivers and lakes (not hiring a pedalo in the park) I've suggested a ball park figure of maybe 20,000 fairly regular participants
I suspect even that is generous, but I'll go with it
It is so far from the 600,000-800,000 that rowing is claiming that the disparity needs some explanation. My guess is: they are lying, to make their sport seem more important, and they are doing it in a spectacularly clumsy way by including people who go to gyms who might use a rowing machine
What's your ballpark figure? How many regular competitive rowers are there, in the UK?
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
I can't imagine that sort of thing. Perhaps a tub.
It was an old clinker - weighed a ton. Manoeuvring it up the rollers at Parsons' Pleasure (stop sniggering at the back) required a combination of heft and dexterity rarely seen on the Isis.
But who would lend you such a boat? If they did then you must be a capable oarsman.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
Might not the two things be linked?
The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?
They’re only limited in terms of live streams. They can show what they like and can show non-live coverage too. But they seem to have made a complete pig’s ear of their coverage so far.
As a BBC supporter (normally) I have to agree. The BBC coverage should be chock-a-block with sports coverage, I don't want to here about back stories and "there theres". It's not just Claire Balding, the Alex woman is just as bad (can't remember her surname), she's no different to when she's on The One Show, a non-sporting show.
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
Yes, I agree
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
Isn't that exactly what happens after every Olympics? That's certainly the impression given on the recent excellent BBC series Gold Rush.
Apparently rowing is already guaranteed another massive sum for Paris. £21m (as against £25m this time)
After such failure, in such a tiny little sport, that seems to be seriously excessive - indeed morally wrong. It's a waste of money
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I really haven't changed any terms
In terms of rowing, actual proper rowing on rivers and lakes (not hiring a pedalo in the park) I've suggested a ball park figure of maybe 20,000 fairly regular participants
I suspect even that is generous, but I'll go with it
It is so far from the 600,000-800,000 that rowing is claiming that the disparity needs some explanation. My guess is: they are lying, to make their sport seem more important, and they are doing it in a spectacularly clumsy way by including people who go to gyms who might use a rowing machine
What's your ballpark figure? How many regular competitive rowers are there, in the UK?
put it this way there are about 650000 golf club members in England - Ask the average joe in the street if they played golf or rowing and you will get a lot lot more golfers. the stats are nowhere near 650K rowers .
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
Might not the two things be linked?
The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?
They’re only limited in terms of live streams. They can show what they like and can show non-live coverage too. But they seem to have made a complete pig’s ear of their coverage so far.
As a BBC supporter (normally) I have to agree. The BBC coverage should be chock-a-block with sports coverage, I don't want to here about back stories and "there theres". It's not just Claire Balding, the Alex woman is just as bad (can't remember her surname), she's no different to when she's on The One Show, a non-sporting show.
BBC have very little major live sport now. This is one of their few remaining significant events. They really need to make an effort to show the action rather than going down woke side alleys. Otherwise when the availability of the Olympic Games to other broadcasters eg Sky comes up again, the decision may be 'why not give Sky a go?'
I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.
Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.
Protect your brain.
Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?
We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.
The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
I remember one study on cycling helmet laws that showed a big drop in cycling head injuries. It was rather proportional to the drop in the number of cyclists though.
I think another thing that makes BBC coverage seem worse is they normally send 1000s of staff to the Olympics, so you get all the VT of the host city, talking heads at the actual events, interviews with athletes who won medals in the studio, who tell their back story...
Instead this time they have a tiny number of sideline reporters and they have prepicked the human interest stories that other than Peaty haven't worked out, so you end up with hours of studio coverage and trying to ezcuse failure of the pre-chosen winners, rather than reacting to the ones that won.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Even qualification is a long way away. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
The more i think about it, the tinier rowing gets. It must be one of the most minority "major" sports in the country. It is minuscule. And yet it gets more public money than any other?!
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time. And KJT has been injuried and Dina Asher Smith is nowhere near her best.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.
It is -UK Sport fund elite sport ,Sport England fund grassroots including basketball
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
also looking unlikely in the golf (won golf in rio)
Comments
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Don't know if this will hurt him with the GOP base.
Grobler’s departure, in August last year, came as the result of what was effectively an ultimatum from British Rowing: stay on for the Paris Olympics in 2024 or we will have to find a new coach straight away. At 74, Grobler was not prepared to commit to another term.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/29/tokyo-olympics-2020-live-golf-swimming-bmx-rowing-news/ (£££)
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
AIUI (and I'm not rabbitholing tonight) one problem is that people in motor vehicles tend to pass closer to those wearing a Helmet. A blonde wig seems to be more effective as they seem to assume that you may be a woman.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/cycle-helmet-with-in-built-blonde-hair-wig-is-the-safest-study-says-34857.html
The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
If Schriever is our only female gold, she is nailed on to be nominated.
The argument you mention above totally ignores the fact I mentioned below: impact with cars is only one way a cyclist can come a cropper. They can fall off on their own behalf.
This is a cognitive dissonance I see amongst keen cyclists around here: any accident they may suffer from is always someone else's fault. They are perfect riders ...
Husband reckons either the Ashes get scrubbed or England send a second string side made up entirely of single blokes who are willing to put up with being imprisoned for two months, including all through Christmas of course. Either decision means that the TV rights will be unsaleable, because there's nothing to show or because it won't be a contest, quite possibly bankrupting both the Australian and England and Wales Cricket Boards as a result.
Still, after the torpedoing of the Rugby League World Cup by the antipodeans, why anyone on this side of the world would budge an inch to accommodate their requirements Lord alone knows.
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Now I would be more cautious and check over shoulder rather than assume a not-stupid driver.
@JosiasJessop
I would wear a helmet were I doing eg a mountain bike circuit or something particularly with trees or overhanging hedges. And I would consider carefully were it to be an environment I thought questionable.
I'd consider myself more 'utility' than 'keen'. My longest regular trip is 17 miles and back again to Chesterfield.
Rowing has failed. We should not chuck good money after bad.
Focus their minds and take away their cash, give it to other sports which are delivering
(Of course he doesn't )
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
https://www.statista.com/statistics/975115/sport-participation-england/
The Games should be the pinnacle of your career to that point, not just another date on your tour schedule.
Dom Sibley
Haseeb Hameed
Zak Crawley
James Bracey (wkt)
Dan Lawrence
Ollie Pope
Dom Bess (c)
Saqib Mahmood
Jofra Archer
Ollie Stone
Ethan Bamber
TSE would be so triggered by that batting lineup he would probably actually eat a pineapple pizza.
@afneil
·
3h
There was a time when the Left demanded that journalists and commentators be free to say what they want regardless of the views of their proprietors, bosses, editors. It was right to demand this. But that time has gone. 1/2
I'm not upset by rowing per se, I couldn't give a fuck. But I do resent privileged sports getting public money if they then fail to deliver medals
Some idiot woman who runs UKSport is now saying "it's not all about medals, it's about inspiring stories"
No, love, when it comes to rowing, it really is all about medals. At Olympics. No one gives a toss at any other time or in any other way. The Olympics is IT.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four Olympics:
Nothing, Bronze, Bronze, Gold. And halfway through that sequence his dad (and coach) died and he came out as gay
THAT is bloody impressive. And gritty
http://www.lymeregisgigclub.com/
And the real hard persons row old style whaleboats etc. A colleague of mine had come up through the Sea Cadets on the Firth of Forth and that is what they rowed, not some wimpy GRP four.
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
UCL
Its rowing club has.... 196 members.
https://studentsunionucl.org/clubs-societies/boat-club?sku=CSC-MEMBERSHIP-2021-NID-82130-NOVICES
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
However, the oarsmen that rowed offshore were always at least as good as I was.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
It's a good job we have real sports like BMX in it otherwise we wouldn't win anything
The BBC has severely limited live footage, so they are bigging up the "stories" on the few sports they can show?
I'm not dogmatic about how the pie is split. The approach of 'where is the niche we will get the best return in numbers of medals for our spending seems horribly mercenary. Some perfectly reasonable sports like weightlifting, seem to be arbitrarily underfunded on the grounds that we face too much competition in them. But the only argument for funding rowing is that it results in a lot of medals for GB.
We could take the approach of funding the sports least able to fund themselves. Or we could spend in the highest profile sports like athletics. Or we could spread the jam evenly.
But let's not try andinvest in stories. Sport is interesting enough for its own sake.
I am sure they did the fitness for rowing, but when you are rowing the timing being off by a tiny bit has massive impact on the boat. We saw that in the 4 who were all over the place (not just the finish).
Really interesting blog from 2017 or 18 about the state of UK rowing. In particular
"Secondly, few of those who are lucky enough to be identified and nurtured, as a future Olympian, ever see the inside of an ordinary boat club that relies on its own members and efforts for funding. With the opening of Caversham, they are tucked away in their own little bubble with little or no contact with the world outside. Occasionally they might be allowed out to row for their club in one of the Head of the River races, but this is the exception rather than the rule. Ordinary club athletes no longer get the opportunity to train alongside and gain experience from international athletes. When these internationals retire, the chances are that they too will walk away from the sport."
British Rowing claiming indoor rowing as part of their empire to inflate the numbers makes them look really sad.
Favourite child.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
In terms of rowing, actual proper rowing on rivers and lakes (not hiring a pedalo in the park) I've suggested a ball park figure of maybe 20,000 fairly regular participants
I suspect even that is generous, but I'll go with it
It is so far from the 600,000-800,000 that rowing is claiming that the disparity needs some explanation. My guess is: they are lying, to make their sport seem more important, and they are doing it in a spectacularly clumsy way by including people who go to gyms who might use a rowing machine
What's your ballpark figure? How many regular competitive rowers are there, in the UK?
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
After such failure, in such a tiny little sport, that seems to be seriously excessive - indeed morally wrong. It's a waste of money
Instead this time they have a tiny number of sideline reporters and they have prepicked the human interest stories that other than Peaty haven't worked out, so you end up with hours of studio coverage and trying to ezcuse failure of the pre-chosen winners, rather than reacting to the ones that won.
I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus.
Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces.
Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation.
Number of medal chances 2.
Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero.
Even qualification is a long way away.
Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
The more i think about it, the tinier rowing gets. It must be one of the most minority "major" sports in the country. It is minuscule. And yet it gets more public money than any other?!
Enough. Stop