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The growing NHS waiting list is arguably the Tories’ biggest challenge – politicalbetting.com

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  • YoungTurkYoungTurk Posts: 158
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I was disappointed to learn that "plague" comes from Latin and Greek.
    There's gotta be a good alternative that doesn't, from Anglo-Saxon.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,847
    sarissa said:

    OT, I have a free bet for Goodwood tomorrow - any tips?

    I'm not in good form at the moment but I'll offer NUITS ST GEORGES as a an each way suggestion in the 2.30 - around 9/1 currently.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    DougSeal said:

    @PaulMainwood

    Good luck everyone.


    Going to have some nice super spreader events tomorrow in France....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,757
    YoungTurk said:


    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I was disappointed to learn that "plague" comes from Latin and Greek.
    There's gotta be a good alternative that doesn't, from Anglo-Saxon.
    Murrain?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643
    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,836
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    No, this time around we are down the batting order. The reason we are going to surge ICU capacity (converting theatre recovery to ICU for example) is because of the expected need for mutual aid. West of here looks bad.
    I'm surprised. I've been using the Covid dashboard to look at what's been going on with the outbreak up in Lancashire at regular intervals, and noticed that the Covid inpatient numbers there have been stabilising at a modest fraction of the horrendous peaks that went before (Bolton about a third, Blackburn more like a sixth.) Between your location and mine, down in Bedfordshire, it's more like a tenth. Actually, on the general theme of 'places beginning with B', Birmingham doesn't look too bad either.

    But then again, I'm not a medic and don't work in healthcare, so there must be things going on that I'm not seeing just by scrolling through a few numbers!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    pigeon said:


    pigeon said:

    I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

    I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.

    At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
    Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:

    image

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
    It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
    Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time. And KJT has been injured and Dina Asher Smith is nowhere near her best.
    Quite. Athletics looks very weak indeed this time around (and yes, I see your line of thinking: Asher-Smith comes away with something and one of the sprint relay teams bags a medal, and that's probably it.)

    Elsewhere, rowing has done substantially worse. Diving has actually done worse too. Gymnastics looks like it will do worse. Swimming has done better, and boxing and sailing both look promising. Taekwondo and triathlon are there or thereabouts. The horsey events are as unpredictable as ever, and I've not a clue about whether or not the open water canoeing contingent have any realistic hopes. The remaining sports, e.g. judo, only contribute one or two medals each - though FWIW the British team will get nothing from tennis this time, nothing from badminton, and quite likely nothing from the lottery that is golf, either. None of which helps.

    The biggie is track cycling. A strong, weak or indifferent performance in the velodrome is likely to be the difference between the British team performing towards the bottom of its target range or somewhere above the midpoint.
    We've got chances in the men's 800m tonight. Oliver Dustin and Elliot Giles have run competitive times this year (Giles breaking former Conservative MP Sebastian Coe's indoor world record, which really just shows indoor athletics is not a thing). Not great chances but not impossible.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,364

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    Either too thick to appreciate that the ons is heavily lagged or deliberately misleading. I know which I believe.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
  • YoungTurkYoungTurk Posts: 158
    edited July 2021

    DougSeal said:

    @PaulMainwood

    Good luck everyone.


    Going to have some nice super spreader events tomorrow in France....
    Perhaps they should go straight to a general strike and not bother about street protests.
    The idea of a general strike against the vaccine passport has great irony.
    Macron is in trouble. There's a limit to how far a government can piss off healthworkers, as with the police and army.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,364
    RobD said:

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
    And I suspect Zoe may have over corrected recently.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,054
    YoungTurk said:

    YoungTurk said:

    The vaccine passport law in France is set to go before the Constitutional Council, which reviews every law passed by Parliament, on Thursday. If it receives the OK then it will come into force four days later. Last Saturday, protestors throughout the country numbered 160000. There'll be more than that tomorrow. "The Local" (news site for expats) must be joking when they write that "(m)ore than 10,000 people are expected to join the four protests in the capital." Friends in Paris tell me you can multiply that by at least 20, possibly 50. It's obvious that tomorrow is a Big Day for opponents of the proposed law, as the last Saturday prior to the CC decision.

    A number of hospitals are already on strike against mandatory vaccination for healthworkers and the pass sanitaire, and there are calls for a general strike.

    Watch this space. There is a clear focus. This is rising, not falling.
    Surely what will happen is that there will be a lot of vaccinations in France, and then it will be quietly dropped.

    Last week, France went from 70% of adults with at least one jab to 74%. A couple more weeks of that and they’ll be comfortably in the 80s.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643

    RobD said:

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
    And I suspect Zoe may have over corrected recently.
    I'm so old that I remember iSAGE arguing that it was outrageous that the government were focusing on hospitalisations and not case numbers.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I beg to differ. It may be a plague, it is not the Plague.
    It's a colloquialism. Anyway, if I ever needed specifically to refer to the mid-14th Century horror, I'd probably call it the Black Death instead.
    "The Plague" usually refers to the mid 17th century horror.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    edited July 2021

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    Either too thick to appreciate that the ons is heavily lagged or deliberately misleading. I know which I believe.
    ISAGE other cheek of the lockdown don't work bridage....data doesn't go the way of your prediction, say the data doesn't include x or overstates y...false positives, overcounting hospitalisations, redefine a term to your own definition, find one outlier study to prove your point, testing is unrepresentative....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    Either too thick to appreciate that the ons is heavily lagged or deliberately misleading. I know which I believe.
    Somebody must have messaged her as she has added a tweet an hour later about ONS being lagged.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643

    DougSeal said:

    @PaulMainwood

    Good luck everyone.


    Going to have some nice super spreader events tomorrow in France....
    what happened in Germany?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    Either too thick to appreciate that the ons is heavily lagged or deliberately misleading. I know which I believe.
    Somebody must have messaged her as she has added a tweet an hour later about ONS being lagged.
    I notice Peston still hasn't corrected his latest conspiracy theory.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
    I don't think telling an app whether you feel OK or have a bit of a sniffle, when there is possibly a real public good in doing so, is that nutty is it? It doesn't ask about your bowel movements, or any recent problems you may have had with power cuts in the Littlehampton area.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919

    RobD said:

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
    And I suspect Zoe may have over corrected recently.
    I'm so old that I remember iSAGE arguing that it was outrageous that the government were focusing on hospitalisations and not case numbers.
    Those poor goalposts, all that constant shifting about, they must be on their last legs by now.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,836
    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I beg to differ. It may be a plague, it is not the Plague.
    It's a colloquialism. Anyway, if I ever needed specifically to refer to the mid-14th Century horror, I'd probably call it the Black Death instead.
    "The Plague" usually refers to the mid 17th century horror.
    The Great Plague, surely?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited July 2021
    Interesting… and potentially alarming;

    Reverse repo tops $1tn

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-30/fed-reverse-repo-usage-tops-1-trillion-for-first-time-ever

    Loadsa cash sloshing around the system… and nothing to invest in.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    YoungTurk said:


    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I was disappointed to learn that "plague" comes from Latin and Greek.
    There's gotta be a good alternative that doesn't, from Anglo-Saxon.
    "Cwealm"

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00681288.1944.11894687?journalCode=yjba19#:~:text=Epidemics (Anglo-Saxon cwealm,,signifies both pestilence and murrain).


  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    I'm not so sure it's a big deal. One is delayed, and the other is biased towards health nuts who don't mind telling others about their medical info
    I don't think telling an app whether you feel OK or have a bit of a sniffle, when there is possibly a real public good in doing so, is that nutty is it? It doesn't ask about your bowel movements, or any recent problems you may have had with power cuts in the Littlehampton area.
    It's a spectrum. ;)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    YoungTurk said:


    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I was disappointed to learn that "plague" comes from Latin and Greek.
    There's gotta be a good alternative that doesn't, from Anglo-Saxon.
    The Dreaded Lurgy.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10205552/dreaded-lurgy-meaning-origin/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited July 2021
    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?

    The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
    You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well

    Because it is
    I beg to differ. It may be a plague, it is not the Plague.
    It's a colloquialism. Anyway, if I ever needed specifically to refer to the mid-14th Century horror, I'd probably call it the Black Death instead.
    "The Plague" usually refers to the mid 17th century horror.
    The Great Plague, surely?
    A Journal of the Plague Year is called just that. It was the fire the year after that was Great.

    Edit I am quite wrong, Great Plague seems to be a very common usage for 1665.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643

    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    11m
    Saturday’s Daily TELEGRAPH: “NHS made pandemic plan to deny elderly care” #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic.

    I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.

    For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher

    Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.

    Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
    No, this time around we are down the batting order. The reason we are going to surge ICU capacity (converting theatre recovery to ICU for example) is because of the expected need for mutual aid. West of here looks bad.
    I'm surprised. I've been using the Covid dashboard to look at what's been going on with the outbreak up in Lancashire at regular intervals, and noticed that the Covid inpatient numbers there have been stabilising at a modest fraction of the horrendous peaks that went before (Bolton about a third, Blackburn more like a sixth.) Between your location and mine, down in Bedfordshire, it's more like a tenth. Actually, on the general theme of 'places beginning with B', Birmingham doesn't look too bad either.

    But then again, I'm not a medic and don't work in healthcare, so there must be things going on that I'm not seeing just by scrolling through a few numbers!
    Leicester is at about 20% of the Feb admissions peak. The pressure is mostly on ICU and ED this time.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,643

    Eric Topol
    @EricTopol
    ·
    53m
    One thing Delta and the hullabaloo has brought us: more US vaccinations. Biggest day all month with 560,000 newbies; 860,000 total.
    Finally about to reach the July 4th goal of 70% adults with ≥1 dose
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923


    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    11m
    Saturday’s Daily TELEGRAPH: “NHS made pandemic plan to deny elderly care” #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Is this shocking/surprising? If things got really bad they’d be the first to be denied treatment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    edited July 2021
    BBC - Manchester City have made a club-record £100m bid for Aston Villa captain Jack Grealish.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    edited July 2021

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Philip Noel-Baker. Not just an Olympic medalist but a nobel prize winner.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,703

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Philip Noel-Baker won silver in the 1,500m and subsequently became Labour MP for Coventry (1929-31), Derby (1936-50) and Derby South (1950-70).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923
    Tres said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Philip Noel-Baker. Not just an Olympic medalist but a nobel prize winner.
    First loser actually.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,297
    edited July 2021

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Apparently so, though Ming Campbell isn't on this list.
    https://cabinetroom.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/mps-olympic-games/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    edited July 2021
    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else managed it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    edited July 2021
    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    I also found this. Only 6 MPs have been medallists.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cabinetroom.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/mps-olympic-games/amp/

    As indeed did lostpassword.
    Find it that is.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    edited July 2021
    Mixed triathlon starts at 11.30pm....if the BBC decide to show it, good medal hope for Team GB.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    Tres said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Philip Noel-Baker. Not just an Olympic medalist but a nobel prize winner.
    No one likes a show off...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,786
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Bah! He only ruled Fiume for 15 months, chased out of there by his fellow Italians!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Aren't you forgetting your near namesake (painter, draughtsman, engineer, scientist, theorist, sculptor and architect)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927

    SNP buck passing:

    No, Tommy, you are not getting away with playing constitutional politics on this.

    There are many areas of England/Wales lower down the socioeconomic scale than Scotland, yet our drug death rates are 3.5x their level.

    This is not a UK problem. This is a Scottish problem.


    @TommySheppard MP
    Shocking figures this morning showing drug deaths in Scotland at a new record of 1339. Every one a tragedy and sadly most of them avoidable. Hopeful that new spending by @scotgov will save lives in future but major changes in UK law required to really tackle problem.

    https://twitter.com/AndyEMorrison/status/1421083954363387909?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TommySheppard/status/1421032543072174080?s=20

    A proper Salmond led SNP would take the necessary measures to sort the Scottish drugs problem and let the UK Government to risk the flak of challenging them. The current woke Sturgeon led SNP government wouldn’t dare.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Bah! He only ruled Fiume for 15 months, chased out of there by his fellow Italians!
    Yes, but only after he single-handedly created the rituals and symbolisms of Fascism (later shamelessly plagiarised by Mussolini), encouraged free love amongst his troops - so that gay troops were seen to copulate openly in graveyards (often on cocaine) and he perfected the greatest war cry ever: Eia! Eia! Eia! ALALA! (from the ancient Greek)

    I once sang it while swimming across a Corsican mountain lake following an amazing picnic with my 30 years junior girlfriend after hearing that I was unexpectedly €20,000 richer in an afternoon

    For just that one afternoon, I was d'Annunzio

    Eia, Eia, Eia, ALALA
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650

    Tres said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Philip Noel-Baker. Not just an Olympic medalist but a nobel prize winner.
    No one likes a show off...
    Lloyd George's daughter Megan did apparently.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    edited July 2021
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    I also found this. Only 6 MPs have been medallists.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cabinetroom.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/mps-olympic-games/amp/

    As indeed did lostpassword.
    Find it that is.
    Of course Colin Moynihan. But I fear your list is not as comprehensive as Parliament's own. More than six.
    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/cultural-collections/archives/parliamentary-olympians/the-olympians/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Being one of the originators of fascism kind of cancels out the good bits.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    I give you Carlton Magee.
    A campaigning journalist who helped expose the Teapot Dome scandal.
    He killed a bystander when he tried to shoot a corrupt judge who attacked him. Was acquitted of manslaughter.
    And invented the parking meter.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Magee
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,972
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    edited July 2021

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Aren't you forgetting your near namesake (painter, draughtsman, engineer, scientist, theorist, sculptor and architect)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci
    Obviously quite an impressive individual, but for me he failed a few too many times

    That said I recommend a visit, for any PB-er, to his final bedroom in Amboise in the Loire Valley in France. An exquisite place, and wildly poetic. It is said Leonardo died there, weeping, because he had not fulfilled the many talents given him by God.

    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/leonardo-da-vincis-bedroom/view/google/


    I fear he had a point
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    Bill Oddie: comedian and birdwatcher...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Borodin (chemist and composer).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    I give you Carlton Magee.
    A campaigning journalist who helped expose the Teapot Dome scandal.
    He killed a bystander when he tried to shoot a corrupt judge who attacked him. Was acquitted of manslaughter.
    And invented the parking meter.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Magee
    Well he certainly trashed his reputation with that last one.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,008

    Mixed triathlon starts at 11.30pm....if the BBC decide to show it, good medal hope for Team GB.

    Mixed triathlon.

    Three legs.

    Male, female, non-binary?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    edited July 2021
    BBC News - Israel accuses Iran over deadly oil tanker attack
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57977702

    I think we may see some more terribly unfortunate industrial accidents in the coming weeks in Iran....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,858
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Borodin (chemist and composer).
    Or, from last weekend’s PB, Anthony Trollope, novelist and inventor of the pillar box and responsible for the uneven compass points of London’s postcode districts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Being one of the originators of fascism kind of cancels out the good bits.
    Actually, it doesn't, if you know the history. eg d'Annunzio's *Fascism* was not racist - certainly not beyond the standards of the day; there was, for example, none of the evil anti-Semitism and genocidalism that came with Hitler

    Recall that this was a time when British Labour stalwarts were firm eugenicists, and racism was absolutely casual.

    d'Annunzio's "Fascism" (if such it was, he didn't call it that) was a kind of alternative to dull-witted Italian Catholicism and the petty rivalry of Italian regionalism.

    It WAS futuristic, militaristic and aggressive, I grant you that, but then so was the British Empire and we all admire that without trouble

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,740
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    Bill Oddie: comedian and birdwatcher...
    Bruce Dickinson: Rock star, pilot, Olympic fencer, brewer, DJ and entrepreneur. Some overlap, but not lots.

    Got expelled from school.for pissing in his headmaster's dinner.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    Bill Oddie: comedian and birdwatcher...
    Bruce Dickinson: Rock star, pilot, Olympic fencer, brewer, DJ and entrepreneur. Some overlap, but not lots.

    Got expelled from school.for pissing in his headmaster's dinner.
    I once got a flight captained by Bruce Dickinson....
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927
    MattW said:



    I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.

    Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.

    Protect your brain.

    Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?

    We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
    The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.

    AIUI (and I'm not rabbitholing tonight) one problem is that people in motor vehicles tend to pass closer to those wearing a Helmet. A blonde wig seems to be more effective as they seem to assume that you may be a woman.
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/cycle-helmet-with-in-built-blonde-hair-wig-is-the-safest-study-says-34857.html

    The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
    Leon said:

    Should I have a gin?

    I find it very difficult to pass groups of middleaged men in luminous lycra in less than 1 metre distance, especially when they are taking up both sides of the road in order to stop you overtaking them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    And thus it was, that the humble millions trembled before the name

    TITCHMARSH
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,740
    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author and sprinter.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    Aren't you forgetting your near namesake (painter, draughtsman, engineer, scientist, theorist, sculptor and architect)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci
    Obviously quite an impressive individual, but for me he failed a few too many times

    That said I recommend a visit, for any PB-er, to his final bedroom in Amboise in the Loire Valley in France. An exquisite place, and wildly poetic. It is said Leonardo died there, weeping, because he had not fulfilled the many talents given him by God.

    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/leonardo-da-vincis-bedroom/view/google/

    I fear he had a point
    He did however manage to paint the most famous painting* in the world.

    (*Why it should be so baffles me; Leonardo's Lady with an Ermine and La Belle Ferronnière are both immensely better imo.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    Cookie said:

    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author and sprinter.

    I think the second one is hotly debated ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    Cookie said:

    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author and sprinter.

    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author, sprinter and convict.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927

    MattW said:



    I disagree with both of you. If you're going more than a few miles an hour, you could hurt yourself badly. I was doing just fifteen (according to my GPS log) when I came off last year, and I was lucky that I landed on grass and rolled. It was all my own fault.

    Also: a few years back I slipped on a slipway near Cape Wrath and bashed my head and arm. It turned out I had fractured my elbow. Six months later, I got viral meningitis. I don't think the bash on the noggin and the virus getting into my brain were unconnected.

    Protect your brain.

    Also: would you say the same for working on building sites? No-one should have to wear helmets because it should be safe?

    We had all this with safety belts, which I think nearly everyone accepts nowadays, at least in the front seats. Some people argued it gave a false sense of security, as though wearing a belt would impel you to suddenly drive at 100 mph. Cycling and driving are both liable to risk outside your control, so it's reasonable to protect yourself.
    The evidence on cycle helmets seems to be quite equivocal, unlike seatbelts.

    AIUI (and I'm not rabbitholing tonight) one problem is that people in motor vehicles tend to pass closer to those wearing a Helmet. A blonde wig seems to be more effective as they seem to assume that you may be a woman.
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/cycle-helmet-with-in-built-blonde-hair-wig-is-the-safest-study-says-34857.html

    The argument gets very theological, to the extent that the cyclinguk forum has a special subforum for helmet-fights.
    Leon said:

    Should I have a gin?

    I find it very difficult to pass groups of middleaged men in luminous lycra in less than 1 metre distance, especially when they are taking up both sides of the road in order to stop you overtaking them.
    Sorry, wrong thread. Of course you should have a gin! I recommend Nostalgin, Caorunn and Badachro.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    I would go for an author, so script and literature.

    Probably American

    Someone like Henry Miller?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    I forgot Adolf Hitler, the mid 20th century century historical figure from Austria

    Reasonable amateur painter, cracking mass car designer, inspired vexillologist

    Did I miss anything?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Somebody won a Nobel Prize without googling? I find that hard to believe.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    Leon said:

    I forgot Adolf Hitler, the mid 20th century century historical figure from Austria

    Reasonable amateur painter, cracking mass car designer, inspired vexillologist

    Did I miss anything?

    Corporal?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927
    Leon said:

    OT I'm starving. A week of all-nighters watching the Olympics caught up with me today and I dozed off earlier, sleeping through Glorious Goodwood. My body now thinks it is lunchtime, despite having had lunch at midday as usual.

    Resist

    Fasting is great for the brain, the body, the mood
    But not the stomach?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    I would go for an author, so script and literature.

    Probably American

    Someone like Henry Miller?
    One was an author, but not American.
    The other is an American but not an author.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,008
    Jesus. Political activist and magician.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,740
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    And thus it was, that the humble millions trembled before the name

    TITCHMARSH
    I once overtook Titchmarsh on the M5 in Somerset. He was driving a Rolls Royce with the registration G4DNR, which kind of forced you to peer in see who it was. He seemed - though it must happen dozens of times a journey - highly satisfied to have been clocked and gave us a smile and a languid wave.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650
    Right, the GB triathlon medley team are going to have to win gold without me - I just can't manage another late one. Night all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143

    Jesus. Political activist and magician.

    Also superb party planner, something which is, quite frankly, often overlooked

    You had a problem with overbooked guests and insufficient booze orders at a busy wedding in Palestine in about 30AD?

    Who did you go to? Jesus Christ, that's who. He'd have you sorted for wine in a jiffy
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?
    Technically Al Gore shared the Nobel.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    I would go for an author, so script and literature.

    Probably American

    Someone like Henry Miller?
    One was an author, but not American.
    The other is an American but not an author.
    That rules out my guess of Dylan and Gore. I'm fairly sure about Dylan being so hailed when he won the Nobel not many years ago. Al Gore won a Nobel Peace Prize. Didn't his film get an Oscar? Maybe it was just nominated.

    So Bob Dylan and an author who is not American. Ah, you say "was" not "is", so probably long ago.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,740

    Jesus. Political activist and magician.

    When the Pixies split up, David Lovering, the band's drummer, became a professional magician.

    The other David Lovering story I like is that when the band reformed - to massive crowds of Pixies fans, everywhere - he got into the habit of going for a drink in the bar of the venue where the band were playing as the audience arrived to sample the atmosphere. Not once was he recognised.
    To be fair to the audiences, he had lost a lot of hair since the band's first incarnation.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927

    The European Super League is back.

    Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.

    A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.

    Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58032324

    I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.

    New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.

    A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.

    It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.


    Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european-super-league-premier-league-european-court-of-justice-real-madrid-barcelona-b1894086.html

    3 team competition....its like the Scottish Premier League....

    The thing is the original proposal, they so could have easily fudged so there was an element of openness, but the founders still got the big rewards (thus meaning they didn't lose out if they missed it for a season and that they would always have the big financial advantage, so realistically they could buy themselves back in).
    When fans sing "Can we play you every week?" it's not meant to be taken as a serious request.
    I would love Aberdeen to say “here’s a really big cheque, Can we join your league and be the biggest club in Scotland. Fuck the Glasgow arse cheeks.”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?
    Technically Al Gore shared the Nobel.
    Most Nobel Prizes are shared between two or three people. It is rare to win one outright. Still counts.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,740
    Leon said:

    Jesus. Political activist and magician.

    Also superb party planner, something which is, quite frankly, often overlooked

    You had a problem with overbooked guests and insufficient booze orders at a busy wedding in Palestine in about 30AD?

    Who did you go to? Jesus Christ, that's who. He'd have you sorted for wine in a jiffy
    And fish.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,972
    There’s a serious historical point in the recounting of Renaissance people of the past. 2 points in fact.

    Firstly, that late 20th century capitalism with its emphasis on specialism to the angels and pinheads level and the apparent efficiency it brought squeezed the air out of the idea of the multitalented individual, evoking as it does the sin of amateurism. In doing so it has created an industrial society that is successful when times are predictable, but flounders when they change bigly. The Silicon Valley bros may think they are Renaissance men because they can run websites, make electric cars and send people to space but they are still playing in one narrow field: VC-funded tech. In the mid 21st century we are now entering, where all the straightforward challenges can be managed by robots so only the impossible challenges remain, we are going to need more proper Renaissance people.

    Second, the examples we can all think of are men. Why? Because women have had to be multitalented by default for millennia. And the late capitalist love of singular specialism is perhaps one of the reasons women still to this day face scepticism at the idea they could possibly hold down a powerful job AND raise children. It’s the same engineering mindset that says you can’t be both a composer and a chemist. Or a pop star and horticulturalist, like my friend Richard.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    And thus it was, that the humble millions trembled before the name

    TITCHMARSH
    I once overtook Titchmarsh on the M5 in Somerset. He was driving a Rolls Royce with the registration G4DNR, which kind of forced you to peer in see who it was. He seemed - though it must happen dozens of times a journey - highly satisfied to have been clocked and gave us a smile and a languid wave.
    Very smooth operator, Alan Titchmarsh. Doesn't have the edge of Monty Don but not everyone wants that in a gardening presenter.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927

    Deepti Gurdasani
    @dgurdasani1
    ·
    2h
    The discrepancies between cases reported, positivity, symptom tracking (Zoe), and prevalence estimated through the ONS is worrying - this suggests that a lot of people aren't getting tested recently & that cases are not a reliable indicator currently.

    Either too thick to appreciate that the ons is heavily lagged or deliberately misleading. I know which I believe.
    Somebody must have messaged her as she has added a tweet an hour later about ONS being lagged.
    I notice Peston still hasn't corrected his latest conspiracy theory.
    Peston’s never wrong (in his imagination).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,394

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?

    dixiedean said:

    I suppose everyone could name the only 2 people to have won an Oscar and a Nobel Prize without googling?

    Bob Dylan and Al Gore?
    Technically Al Gore shared the Nobel.
    Most Nobel Prizes are shared between two or three people. It is rare to win one outright. Still counts.
    Fair enough. But only 2 have whole ones to themselves.
    And Bob Dylan is one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    TimS said:

    There’s a serious historical point in the recounting of Renaissance people of the past. 2 points in fact.

    Firstly, that late 20th century capitalism with its emphasis on specialism to the angels and pinheads level and the apparent efficiency it brought squeezed the air out of the idea of the multitalented individual, evoking as it does the sin of amateurism. In doing so it has created an industrial society that is successful when times are predictable, but flounders when they change bigly. The Silicon Valley bros may think they are Renaissance men because they can run websites, make electric cars and send people to space but they are still playing in one narrow field: VC-funded tech. In the mid 21st century we are now entering, where all the straightforward challenges can be managed by robots so only the impossible challenges remain, we are going to need more proper Renaissance people.

    Second, the examples we can all think of are men. Why? Because women have had to be multitalented by default for millennia. And the late capitalist love of singular specialism is perhaps one of the reasons women still to this day face scepticism at the idea they could possibly hold down a powerful job AND raise children. It’s the same engineering mindset that says you can’t be both a composer and a chemist. Or a pop star and horticulturalist, like my friend Richard.

    A LOT of truth in that

    Goodnight PB, goodnight
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,786

    Cookie said:

    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author and sprinter.

    Jeffrey Archer: politician, author, sprinter and convict.
    Richard B. Riddick: escaped convict, murderer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,919
    edited July 2021
    Is it me or is the BMX a bit weird how they run it?

    Best of 3 races in the heats, best of 3 races in the semi-finals....1 race in the finals...

    Why not best of 3 in the final?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,521
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:



    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    Bill Oddie: comedian and birdwatcher...
    David Rowntree. Blur drummer and Labour County Councillor.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    Mrs Fairliered. Long suffering and horticulturalist.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,786
    Brian Cox: musician and astrophysicist

    Brian May: musician and astrophysicist
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,301
    TimS said:

    There’s a serious historical point in the recounting of Renaissance people of the past. 2 points in fact.

    Firstly, that late 20th century capitalism with its emphasis on specialism to the angels and pinheads level and the apparent efficiency it brought squeezed the air out of the idea of the multitalented individual, evoking as it does the sin of amateurism. In doing so it has created an industrial society that is successful when times are predictable, but flounders when they change bigly. The Silicon Valley bros may think they are Renaissance men because they can run websites, make electric cars and send people to space but they are still playing in one narrow field: VC-funded tech. In the mid 21st century we are now entering, where all the straightforward challenges can be managed by robots so only the impossible challenges remain, we are going to need more proper Renaissance people.

    Second, the examples we can all think of are men. Why? Because women have had to be multitalented by default for millennia. And the late capitalist love of singular specialism is perhaps one of the reasons women still to this day face scepticism at the idea they could possibly hold down a powerful job AND raise children. It’s the same engineering mindset that says you can’t be both a composer and a chemist. Or a pop star and horticulturalist, like my friend Richard.

    OK - so I'm bloody well going to nominate myself.

    Cyclefree: Top investigator, mother and PB header writer (+ amateur horticulturalist).

    So there!!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,714
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT Conservatives had Seb Coe and Chris Chataway; LibDems Sir Ming Campbell; has Labour ever had an Olympian MP?

    Not only an Olympian, but a medallIst and a Nobel Prize winner too. Quite the double.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Noel-Baker
    That's a pretty impressive double. Has anyone else manages it?
    He is quite The Dude

    I am fascinated by people who excel outrageously in entirely diverse human endeavours

    Samuel Beckett, famously a Nobel Prize for Literature AND he's in Wisden

    Sir John Vanbrugh, a great architect AND a fine playwright? How?

    Churchill: journalist, cavalryman, painter, bricklayer, historian, orator, and won World War 2 (with a bit of help)

    Michelangelo was just obscenely talented. A world class, top 10 painter. But also a world class top 10 sculptor?! But wait, also a world class top 10 architect???

    And - many don't realise - also a notable poet

    But my favourite is possibly Gabrielle d'Annunzio. Excellent poet. Sometimes brilliant journalist. Deeply clever and quite successful politician. Fine and brave airman. Military innovator. Pioneering bomber. Genius womanizer. Radical autocrat of anarchist city state. WTAF

    Hard to beat
    More recently:

    Kim Wilde: pop star and horticulturalist

    Parry Gripp: pop star and horticulturalist

    Alan Titchmarsh: romantic author and horticulturalist

    Monty Don: fashion jeweller and horticulturalist


    And thus it was, that the humble millions trembled before the name

    TITCHMARSH
    I once overtook Titchmarsh on the M5 in Somerset. He was driving a Rolls Royce with the registration G4DNR, which kind of forced you to peer in see who it was. He seemed - though it must happen dozens of times a journey - highly satisfied to have been clocked and gave us a smile and a languid wave.
    Very smooth operator, Alan Titchmarsh. Doesn't have the edge of Monty Don but not everyone wants that in a gardening presenter.
    He is v good on Classic Fm..
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