"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.
Because rowing is all about coordination with the rest of the team. You can train to keep fit but ideally you need the rest of the team there. Of course, it is only conjecture they did not have this.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
Rowing is big in places that have rivers, and also coasts. (Coastal rowing is a little different, but they're very good)
It depends on definitions - if you went to Oxbridge then there's a good chance you adventured that way.
Four mates and I took a coxed four up the Cherwell as far as the Vicky Arms one sunny afternoon and got an absolute bollocking on our return. We had to promise never to do it again and, to the best of my knowledge, none of us has.
I can't imagine that sort of thing. Perhaps a tub.
It was an old clinker - weighed a ton. Manoeuvring it up the rollers at Parsons' Pleasure (stop sniggering at the back) required a combination of heft and dexterity rarely seen on the Isis.
But who would lend you such a boat? If they did then you must be a capable oarsman.
We took it out for "practice" and diverted up the ... err ... tributary in a moment of madness. Hence the bollocking.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.
Because rowing is all about coordination with the rest of the team. You can train to keep fit but ideally you need the rest of the team there. Of course, it is only conjecture they did not have this.
I think it is a bit feeble- most other countries had stronger lockdowns
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Even qualification is a long way away. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Olympic funding for basketball doesn't go on courts for all, in the past it went for paying the insurance premiums for 2-3 NBA players.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Even qualification is a long way away. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
If you look up Basketball England at companies house ,their accounts show most income from grants (Sport England being the biggest)
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
It's the Americanisation of sports coverage. It's all about the backstory, the human interest. And worse, it means that in order to prepare, the BBC needs to decide the story in advance, before they've seen what happens in the water or on the course, which is why you get this post-race fawning over plucky losers.
Yep, they’d decided who their ‘story’ of the day was going to be, irrespective of the result of their event. Which is a poor way to arrange coverage, even with all the other obvious issues they have.
Btw in the BMX, it was hard to escape the impression the big "story" was Kye growing up in gang-ridden (is it?) Peckham, and Beth eclipsing him was not in the script. Though against that, at least they managed to get to the start of her race on time.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.
It is -UK Sport fund elite sport ,Sport England fund grassroots including basketball
But without elite funding for kids to aspire to make into a career, the grass roots remains grass roots.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
Yes, I agree
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
Isn't that exactly what happens after every Olympics? That's certainly the impression given on the recent excellent BBC series Gold Rush.
Apparently rowing is already guaranteed another massive sum for Paris. £21m (as against £25m this time)
After such failure, in such a tiny little sport, that seems to be seriously excessive - indeed morally wrong. It's a waste of money
It is a sport though that is quite costly in terms of equipment and facilities.
It is very hard work. I rowed in our 3rd boat at Medical school. We did 3 mile races and I could barely breathe by the end.
Participation maybe low, but there is public interest. The boat race always draws a crowd each spring.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.
It is -UK Sport fund elite sport ,Sport England fund grassroots including basketball
But without elite funding for kids to aspire to make into a career, the grass roots remains grass roots.
Not for basketball....kids grow up wanting to play NBA ...and if you are good as a teenager, there are scholarships to US high schools and at 18 to college system.
The elite Olympic funding for basketball went on insurance premiums for a small number of NBA players who wouldn't otherwise be able to compete....now they withdrew it, none of those players are involved as they won't pay the premiums themselves
And even with the ringers, still nowhere near the top 10-15 teams in the world, as although informally played in the UK, the quality is piss poor. There is never any realistix prospect of ever winning a medal.
I think another thing that makes BBC coverage seem worse is they normally send 1000s of staff to the Olympics, so you get all the VT of the host city, talking heads at the actual events, interviews with athletes who won medals in the studio, who tell their back story...
Instead this time they have a tiny number of sideline reporters and they have prepicked the human interest stories that other than Peaty haven't worked out, so you end up with hours of studio coverage and trying to ezcuse failure of the pre-chosen winners, rather than reacting to the ones that won.
I think it's a combination of limits imposed by Covid and the loss of the primary broadcast rights. A lot of the criticism has also been about "live" events actually being shown on a delay, so that keen fans find out what happened online before they see the action. This is simply the product of having to pick and choose which two things to show live at any one time, and there being either too much going on at once or, perhaps, questionable editorial decisions being made.
I suspect that a lot of the bleating about wokeism and soft soap stories is actually the product of watching coverage later on in the day in Japan (i.e. at a sane hour in the UK,) where there's perhaps been a bit less going on - especially in the first week, where a lot of the swimming finals were purposely moved to late morning in Japan/about 2am in the UK for the convenience of the American TV audience - or when the highlights packages are being shown. You're going to get more of the backstory filler material when there's less or no live action to broadcast.
"GB Rowing is “evolving from quite a hardcore culture, & trying to transition to something where athletes get more support” @TeamGB chief Andy Anson told me this week, when I asked him why they’d had a poor Tokyo Olympics, despite being UK’s best publicly-funded sport:"
You don't have to beat the shit out of people to get the best out of them. Although, granted, taekwondo got three medals from five entrants, and the boxing squad is already guaranteed at least three as well, so beating the shit out of people may have its place.
Anyway, something's obviously amiss with GB rowing, although I seem to recall it being suggested that quite a lot of them are young and may do better in Paris, so we'll have to see how that pans out. Albeit that, if previous funding policies are followed, they'll be doing it with a lot less money in the bank.
It certainly doesn't seem to be a case that the British have suddenly forgotten how to compete in boats. The sailing, fingers crossed, appears to be going pretty well.
@FrancisUrquhart may have put his finger on it a couple of threads back. British rowing suffered from lockdown. Covid-free New Zealand and Australia cleaned up in the regatta.
It might have something to do with it. On the other hand, if it's down to Covid then, given this country's dire performance on that front, why haven't all the sports suffered a dramatic collapse in form? Other disciplines (Exhibit A: swimming) have improved since Rio. Boxing and sailing, at least, also look likely to produce better overall performances than 2016.
Because rowing is all about coordination with the rest of the team. You can train to keep fit but ideally you need the rest of the team there. Of course, it is only conjecture they did not have this.
I think it is a bit feeble- most other countries had stronger lockdowns
Yes but the two countries that cleaned up – Australia and New Zealand – did not. That's the point.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Well quite. The notion that over half-a-million people in the UK have regular use of a rowing boat and an appropriate stretch of lake or river on which to use it is laughable.
Stripping the rowing programme of all its lottery funding, on the other hand, is something of an extreme reaction to one poor Games. But if previous standards are to be upheld, and a larger slice of the finite cake is to go to the best performing disciplines, then they should receive less.
Yes, I agree
I am clearly being provocative. I want an argument!
But you are right. The cake should be redivided and rowing should get a lot less. Not zero. But a lot less. See how they manage with that. Meanwhile, reinforce the success in sports where we are doing better. Give THEM more of the pie
Isn't that exactly what happens after every Olympics? That's certainly the impression given on the recent excellent BBC series Gold Rush.
Apparently rowing is already guaranteed another massive sum for Paris. £21m (as against £25m this time)
After such failure, in such a tiny little sport, that seems to be seriously excessive - indeed morally wrong. It's a waste of money
It is a sport though that is quite costly in terms of equipment and facilities.
It is very hard work. I rowed in our 3rd boat at Medical school. We did 3 mile races and I could barely breathe by the end.
Participation maybe low, but there is public interest. The boat race always draws a crowd each spring.
Mostly pissed public school oldboys with stripey blazers
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
If winning medals is the aim, not funding the rugby 7s is idiotic. There are 2 very achievable medals there. Instead the men lost a load of their best players as they had to go and play 15s to actually be able to survive.
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
OT I'm starving. A week of all-nighters watching the Olympics caught up with me today and I dozed off earlier, sleeping through Glorious Goodwood. My body now thinks it is lunchtime, despite having had lunch at midday as usual.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
I think that is still very optimistic.
A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...
The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.
Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
OT I'm starving. A week of all-nighters watching the Olympics caught up with me today and I dozed off earlier, sleeping through Glorious Goodwood. My body now thinks it is lunchtime, despite having had lunch at midday as usual.
Resist
Fasting is great for the brain, the body, the mood
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I really haven't changed any terms
In terms of rowing, actual proper rowing on rivers and lakes (not hiring a pedalo in the park) I've suggested a ball park figure of maybe 20,000 fairly regular participants
I suspect even that is generous, but I'll go with it
It is so far from the 600,000-800,000 that rowing is claiming that the disparity needs some explanation. My guess is: they are lying, to make their sport seem more important, and they are doing it in a spectacularly clumsy way by including people who go to gyms who might use a rowing machine
What's your ballpark figure? How many regular competitive rowers are there, in the UK?
put it this way there are about 650000 golf club members in England - Ask the average joe in the street if they played golf or rowing and you will get a lot lot more golfers. the stats are nowhere near 650K rowers .
But there are probably 3-4x as many regular golf players, as there are golf club members, so I’m not sure that’s a good comparison.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
I think that is still very optimistic.
A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...
The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.
Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
Yes, I think we will tail off badly in this Olympics and end up with 40-45 medals. We will likely be beaten by Australia and probably 3rd or 4th in Europe behind Fake Russia and maybe Germany or Italy or both
Maybe around 9th in the overall table at the end? Not ignoble, but quite a fall from Rio and London
Shanaze Reade appeared on one of Guy Martin's shows, where she rode a bicycle fast enough to climb a wall of death.
You wanna tell her she's not a cyclist?
I'm sure she is a superb cyclist.
Put her on a proper bike and she'd clean up.
They tried it, it didn't work out. Team GB tried her in velodrome and on the road and unfortunately didn't really have it, then got injuried, then lost her way and dropped out of all sports for several years. Fortunately, now found a new passion for personal training.
It is pretty ridiculous. Either you punish nations or you don't, giving people the chance to skirt around it gives little incentive to not try something on in future, since at least some of your nation will still get to participate.
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
Shanaze Reade appeared on one of Guy Martin's shows, where she rode a bicycle fast enough to climb a wall of death.
You wanna tell her she's not a cyclist?
I'm sure she is a superb cyclist.
Put her on a proper bike and she'd clean up.
They tried it, it didn't work out. Team GB tried her in velodrome and on the road and unfortunately didn't really have it, then got injuried, then lost her way and dropped out of all sports for several years. Fortunately, now found a new passion for personal training.
I stand corrected.
Although that evidences* my notion that BMX ain't cycling.
To shift the debate, I wonder if this will be the first Olympics (outside China) where China really thumps the USA
It would be epochal and symbolic
I think the yanks will reel them in and then beat them by about 30 medals. Always this pattern as the chinese get a lot of early medals in gymnastics, shooting etc then get none in Athletics whilst the USA sweep the athletics board
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
3 team competition....its like the Scottish Premier League....
The thing is the original proposal, they so could have easily fudged so there was an element of openness, but the founders still got the big rewards (thus meaning they didn't lose out if they missed it for a season and that they would always have the big financial advantage, so realistically they could buy themselves back in).
They tried it, it didn't work out. Team GB tried her in velodrome and on the road and unfortunately didn't really have it, then got injuried, then lost her way and dropped out of all sports for several years. Fortunately, now found a new passion for personal training.
Yeah, seems happier now.
The UK is only the third Nation to win Gold in all 4 Olympic cycling disciplines
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
Sports funding. I must confess to having a bit of a problem with a medals only focus. Witness basketball. Widely played in areas with little to no other open spaces. Tremendous cardio workout for our obesity problem. Hugely popular in urban, minority communities. Requires little in the way of expensive, specialist equipment. Reasonably simple rules, and, like football can have a flexible number of players. In short accessible participation. Number of medal chances 2. Number of realistic medal chances in the next few decades zero. Should it be funded? Would do much more for the general health and well being of the nation as a whole than many other sports.
Basketball should be funded but under a Sport for All banner, not under the GB Olympic funding.
It is -UK Sport fund elite sport ,Sport England fund grassroots including basketball
But without elite funding for kids to aspire to make into a career, the grass roots remains grass roots.
but the real aim of sport funding is to get the nation active . As it should be
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time. And KJT has been injured and Dina Asher Smith is nowhere near her best.
Quite. Athletics looks very weak indeed this time around (and yes, I see your line of thinking: Asher-Smith comes away with something and one of the sprint relay teams bags a medal, and that's probably it.)
Elsewhere, rowing has done substantially worse. Diving has actually done worse too. Gymnastics looks like it will do worse. Swimming has done better, and boxing and sailing both look promising. Taekwondo and triathlon are there or thereabouts. The horsey events are as unpredictable as ever, and I've not a clue about whether or not the open water canoeing contingent have any realistic hopes. The remaining sports, e.g. judo, only contribute one or two medals each - though FWIW the British team will get nothing from tennis this time, nothing from badminton, and quite likely nothing from the lottery that is golf, either. None of which helps.
The biggie is track cycling. A strong, weak or indifferent performance in the velodrome is likely to be the difference between the British team performing towards the bottom of its target range or somewhere above the midpoint.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
3 team competition....its like the Scottish Premier League....
The thing is the original proposal, they so could have easily fudged so there was an element of openness, but the founders still got the big rewards (thus meaning they didn't lose out if they missed it for a season and that they would always have the big financial advantage, so realistically they could buy themselves back in).
When fans sing "Can we play you every week?" it's not meant to be taken as a serious request.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
3 team competition....its like the Scottish Premier League....
That's a two team competition, I was six when a side other than Rangers or Celtic won the Scottish top flight.
To be strictly accurate it has been a one team competition for the past 10 years and it will be this season as well. Juat the team has changed from celtic now to rangers, with sime pundits saying rangers 2nd 11 is still stronger than celtics first team.
I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.
I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.
At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:
Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
I think that is still very optimistic.
A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...
The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.
Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
Yes, I think we will tail off badly in this Olympics and end up with 40-45 medals. We will likely be beaten by Australia and probably 3rd or 4th in Europe behind Fake Russia and maybe Germany or Italy or both
Maybe around 9th in the overall table at the end? Not ignoble, but quite a fall from Rio and London
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
On a night of sceptical pbers I call bullshit on 3% of the country being golf courses. Evidence?
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
I have no reason to doubt you @Foxy but I my own recent experience of both the primary care and hospital service has been superb. I appear to be in one of the lucky areas.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
On a night of sceptical pbers I call bullshit on 3% of the country being golf courses. Evidence?
sounds unbelievable doesnt it but a simple google put in "percentage of land golf course England " -It actually comes out at 2% in the first search but between 2 and 3% is the truth
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
Interesting update, thanks.
I get the National Theatre updates and they say they're going back to full capacity as per pre-covid, with some modest precautions.
Walking around today, saw zero masks on the street. My general impression is that people are now trying to pursue a normal life as far as things they care about go (there's a big outdoor music festival next weekend, to which 200 people are expected), but trying to avoid taking risks for no good reason - and going back to the office is one of them. Now that it's becoming a realistic prospect (on a 2 days a week basis) from September, colleagues are distinctly unenthusiastic.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
On a night of sceptical pbers I call bullshit on 3% of the country being golf courses. Evidence?
sounds unbelievable doesnt it but a simple google put in "percentage of land golf course England " -It actually comes out at 2% in the first search but between 2 and 3% is the truth
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
Interesting update, thanks.
I get the National Theatre updates and they say they're going back to full capacity as per pre-covid, with some modest precautions.
Walking around today, saw zero masks on the street. My general impression is that people are now trying to pursue a normal life as far as things they care about go (there's a big outdoor music festival next weekend, to which 200 people are expected), but trying to avoid taking risks for no good reason - and going back to the office is one of them. Now that it's becoming a realistic prospect (on a 2 days a week basis) from September, colleagues are distinctly unenthusiastic.
well some will be ,some will be really wanting a return to office. Its not healthy to talk to a screen all day every day Monday to Friday in your house
It is pretty ridiculous. Either you punish nations or you don't, giving people the chance to skirt around it gives little incentive to not try something on in future, since at least some of your nation will still get to participate.
The ROC team is *exactly* the same thing as the Russian Federation team, just with a different flag (which incorporates the Russian one anyway) and a bit of Tchaikovsky substituted for the national anthem. It's such a transparent fudge it's laughable.
Why they couldn't have just done what the IAAF did and let the Russian competitors take part under a neutral flag (and a trustworthy anti-doping regime) I can't possibly imagine. I'm sure it can't possibly have anything to do with bribery.
The vaccine passport law in France is set to go before the Constitutional Council, which reviews every law passed by Parliament, on Thursday. If it receives the OK then it will come into force four days later. Last Saturday, protestors throughout the country numbered 160000. There'll be more than that tomorrow. "The Local" (news site for expats) must be joking when they write that "(m)ore than 10,000 people are expected to join the four protests in the capital." Friends in Paris tell me you can multiply that by at least 20, possibly 50. It's obvious that tomorrow is a Big Day for opponents of the proposed law, as the last Saturday prior to the CC decision.
Seems my interest in the Olympics is about the same as my interest in GB News - not watched it and not going to watch it. There's plenty of decent sport about - quality horse racing at Goodwood for example.
Out and about today and curious to see the changes Covid has wrought on our travel patterns. Tubes and trains busier today than on Tuesday but a lot of leisure travellers both in and out of London. Bank station this evening moribund so no sign of workers returning to offices in the City or Canary Wharf in any great number but plenty of other workers (those unable to WFH) out and about.
Just looking at the transport passenger number stats, national rail numbers back to just over half pre-Covid levels and underground numbers still below half pre-Covid levels so again little indication of a mass return to offices as yet.
The so-called "Freedom Day" had virtually no impact on the numbers - train usage edged up during May and June while underground passenger numbers also edged up in early June but have largely plateaued since. Also interesting to note weekend passenger numbers a little stronger suggesting the return of leisure travel has been stronger than the return of commuter passenger numbers.
Interesting update, thanks.
I get the National Theatre updates and they say they're going back to full capacity as per pre-covid, with some modest precautions.
Walking around today, saw zero masks on the street. My general impression is that people are now trying to pursue a normal life as far as things they care about go (there's a big outdoor music festival next weekend, to which 200 people are expected), but trying to avoid taking risks for no good reason - and going back to the office is one of them. Now that it's becoming a realistic prospect (on a 2 days a week basis) from September, colleagues are distinctly unenthusiastic.
The First Night of the Proms was airing on BBC2 (have to admit I had the TV on as background noise though, rather than paying very much attention.) I did, however, notice that there were a lot of empty seats, and most of the audience members that have turned up are in the dreaded gags. Whether this is all because people have been forced to wear the gags or they're wetting themselves with fear over the Plague, I've no idea.
To shift the debate, I wonder if this will be the first Olympics (outside China) where China really thumps the USA
It would be epochal and symbolic
I think the yanks will reel them in and then beat them by about 30 medals. Always this pattern as the chinese get a lot of early medals in gymnastics, shooting etc then get none in Athletics whilst the USA sweep the athletics board
Hmm
That has always been the pattern for 20 years (excluding Beijing)
Given China's vastly greater population size and increasing relative wealth this will change one day soon. Perhaps now? Who knows
BREAKING: The final design for the new royal yacht has been approved. HMS Flagboat will launch on 1st April 2022 & will be built at the Navy's Portsmouth boat park costing just £250billion, it will feature a golf course the size of 253.2 London buses!
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
I have no reason to doubt you @Foxy but I my own recent experience of both the primary care and hospital service has been superb. I appear to be in one of the lucky areas.
It is very patchy across specialities too, but all have prioritised urgent work. I am seeing and starting treatment on urgent cases in a couple of weeks, but the routine stuff is just a pile of referral letters without appointments yet, let alone starting treatment.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
I have no reason to doubt you @Foxy but I my own recent experience of both the primary care and hospital service has been superb. I appear to be in one of the lucky areas.
It is very patchy across specialities too, but all have prioritised urgent work. I am seeing and starting treatment on urgent cases in a couple of weeks, but the routine stuff is just a pile of referral letters without appointments yet, let alone starting treatment.
Anecdata
I have to get blood tests for a lifelong and sometimes wearying condition (not mortally threatening, but needs fairly regular checks)
Pre Covid this was always a bit of a rigmarole - go see the doc, he/she says Ooops, blood tests needed Leon!, then I was given a slip of paper, I had to turn up at a nearby hospital, sit in the queue (pften short, sometimes tediously long)
Post-Covid I emailed my GP, they swiftly emailed back a QR code, I scanned it off my laptop screen with my phone, that went straight to a choice of blood test slots, I now have a slot on Monday (of my choosing). That's it!
Really super efficient. So much better. Some things have IMPROVED
To shift the debate, I wonder if this will be the first Olympics (outside China) where China really thumps the USA
It would be epochal and symbolic
I think the yanks will reel them in and then beat them by about 30 medals. Always this pattern as the chinese get a lot of early medals in gymnastics, shooting etc then get none in Athletics whilst the USA sweep the athletics board
Hmm
That has always been the pattern for 20 years (excluding Beijing)
Given China's vastly greater population size and increasing relative wealth this will change one day soon. Perhaps now? Who knows
So the USA will beat them on a per capita basis this year?
The vaccine passport law in France is set to go before the Constitutional Council, which reviews every law passed by Parliament, on Thursday. If it receives the OK then it will come into force four days later. Last Saturday, protestors throughout the country numbered 160000. There'll be more than that tomorrow. "The Local" (news site for expats) must be joking when they write that "(m)ore than 10,000 people are expected to join the four protests in the capital." Friends in Paris tell me you can multiply that by at least 20, possibly 50. It's obvious that tomorrow is a Big Day for opponents of the proposed law, as the last Saturday prior to the CC decision.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
Barcelona are massively in debt and don’t have a megabucks owner to bail them out - Swiss Ramble had one of his incredibly detailed Twitter threads about their problems a few days ago.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
Well they've at least partly listened - the fact they managed to get people on the side of UEFA of all organisations showed just how dumb their previous proposals were.
Obviously these things are about money, they always would be, but it was so nakedly greedy without any benefit to anyone else that is was shocking they were so unprepared for the backlash.
But I assume this is all just bluster to get more money from UEFA.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
No, this time around we are down the batting order. The reason we are going to surge ICU capacity (converting theatre recovery to ICU for example) is because of the expected need for mutual aid. West of here looks bad.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
Barcelona are massively in debt and don’t have a megabucks owner to bail them out - Swiss Ramble had one of his incredibly detailed Twitter threads about their problems a few days ago.
Plus the Spanish League have told them they wouldn't be allowed to repeat some previous fudges to get around having no money e.g. they were going to try and not pay Messi now, rather pay him his wages spread across his lifetime post retirement.
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
On a night of sceptical pbers I call bullshit on 3% of the country being golf courses. Evidence?
sounds unbelievable doesnt it but a simple google put in "percentage of land golf course England " -It actually comes out at 2% in the first search but between 2 and 3% is the truth
1) The UK is more than just England. 2) that wold still be over 3000km2 of gold courses which I do not believe.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
Well yes of course and aliens could turn up with a Death Star later next week. The story is about looking at worst case scenarios, and even then needing some rather big leaps about complete vaccine escape. Outright scare mongering.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
We are going to have to retire the phrase "avoid it like the plague" when people don't...
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
I have no reason to doubt you @Foxy but I my own recent experience of both the primary care and hospital service has been superb. I appear to be in one of the lucky areas.
It is very patchy across specialities too, but all have prioritised urgent work. I am seeing and starting treatment on urgent cases in a couple of weeks, but the routine stuff is just a pile of referral letters without appointments yet, let alone starting treatment.
Anecdata
I have to get blood tests for a lifelong and sometimes wearying condition (not mortally threatening, but needs fairly regular checks)
Pre Covid this was always a bit of a rigmarole - go see the doc, he/she says Ooops, blood tests needed Leon!, then I was given a slip of paper, I had to turn up at a nearby hospital, sit in the queue (pften short, sometimes tediously long)
Post-Covid I emailed my GP, they swiftly emailed back a QR code, I scanned it off my laptop screen with my phone, that went straight to a choice of blood test slots, I now have a slot on Monday (of my choosing). That's it!
Really super efficient. So much better. Some things have IMPROVED
That's good to hear. I wonder if there will be a number of spin-off benefits in a similar way to the technological and social advances that were catalysed (is that a word?) by the Second World War.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well
Because it is
I beg to differ. It may be a plague, it is not the Plague.
You can watch the pre-fight nonsense at professional boxing for that.
I find professional wrestling more genuine than the lead up to a boxing match. It's just plain embarrassing with the trash talk and staring and such - it's so formulaic, and does it really add to the build up at all?
I see that the BMX girl Bethany Schriever hasn’t appeared in the SPoTY betting. I think she will be nominated and may prove popular given her lack of central funding.
Yes indeed. She gets gold and got no money
Rowing gets £25 bloody million, and then they moan about being criticised for winning half a chocolate bronze medal
HMG should intervene here, this is public cash being spaffed up the wall on a stupid sport, reinforcing failure
Forgive me @Leon, but don't you think that last sentence sounded a little Piers Morganesque?
No, Morgan is a dick who criticises individuals who do their best
I am criticising a sporting structure, some idiot bureaucracy, and a naff all-must-have-prizes attitude which means Everyone Comes Fourth
And rowing is a pretty ridiculous posho sport with extremely limited participation. The ONLY reason to chuck £25 MILLION at it is if they bring back loads of golds from Olympics, which cheers everyone up
If they don't, take away their money and give it to more deserving sports, like the BMXers
Participation is 600k-800k. Is that 'extremely limited'?
I read that figure online. I just don't believe it. Do you?
The only way you can get anywhere near that number is if you include "indoor rowing" (see here) - which means people down the gym. lol
Complete nonsense for England. I'd guess 100k really involved and some similar number involved through the Unis.
I doubt it is even 100,000. I travel a lot around Britain and I see very few rowers. The university towns, the Thames at Chiswick, er.... that's honestly about it
It is a tiny minority sport.
If there were 600,000 rowers regularly rowing in the UK you'd barely be able to move on a river without knocking over a coxless four. Ridiculous
They are including in that stat people on rowing machines in gyms, which is like saying there are 50 million British people doing regular weight lifting because they often lift full cups of tea
It probably doesn't get to 600k, but every sport exaggerates it's participation. I think there are about 50 universities that have clubs and probably 30 private schools (with apols to your chips) and a large number of private clubs in most towns that have major rivers. That all amounts to quite a lot of participants. So sorry @Leon , you might be right about the 600k number, but that is quite a lot of participation, so you are talking bollox
It is STILL complete nonsense
Let's take a University I know well, which is keen on rowing, and has money to throw at it. Also one of the biggest and best unis in the country
And this will be one of the biggest clubs in the country
But let's say every uni is as big as that in rowing (however unlikely)
50 x 200 = 10,000
Add in another 5,000 for the 30 private schools? (also generous)
That's 15,000. Another 5,000 for general private clubs?
20,000
Not 600,000-800,000
lol
You have changed the terms of the debate. I agree the 600k is probably wrong, but that is a straw man. You said it was low participation. When you have 50 unis, 30 private schools and numerous clubs, this might be elitist (no, anything but elitism at the Olympics!), but it is not low participation. I imagine if you put all the Olympic sports in order of participation rowing would be maybe half way down the list.
I think in my whole life I've known one rower.
Sports with more participation, off the top of my head,must include athletics, swimming, cycling, sailing, football, hockey, rugby, triathlon, tennis, badminton, table tennis,squash. Maybe judo. Archery? Basketball? Shooting?
you forgot Golf ! 3% of the country is golf courses (not joking)
On a night of sceptical pbers I call bullshit on 3% of the country being golf courses. Evidence?
sounds unbelievable doesnt it but a simple google put in "percentage of land golf course England " -It actually comes out at 2% in the first search but between 2 and 3% is the truth
1) The UK is more than just England. 2) that wold still be over 3000km2 of gold courses which I do not believe.
It seems to come from a comparison with housing use and golf courses. Estimates are there are 1800 golf course, but not all will be 18 hole, and the average size may well have been overstated by comparing with US golf courses (less land pressure). It may be a surprisingly high % but I doubt it’s more than 1%.
Following @MaxPB's thoughts I've used some other data sources to recalculate the over 16 population in Newham away from the NIMS and nearer to the ONS estimates.
Newham has 78% of its population over 16 so is a younger area than the national average.
I estimate our over 16 population to be 284,190 or thereabouts - on that basis, 70.6% have had one dose and 49% both doses of the vaccine.
That's still behind the national figures but that may be explained by the higher proportion of younger adults and some still waiting for a second vaccination - yesterday, four second doses were given for every first dose.
The local East Ham leisure centre is opening on Sunday from 2-8pm for a walk in session for first or second Pfizer vaccinations.
You can watch the pre-fight nonsense at professional boxing for that.
I find professional wrestling more genuine than the lead up to a boxing match. It's just plain embarrassing with the trash talk and staring and such - it's so formulaic, and does it really add to the build up at all?
You can't help but feel sometimes the best way for boxer X to irritate boxer Y would be to be all bright and breezy and sunny and pretend that they were best mates and that they got on great and all that, rather than as you say the extremely formulaic "stare at each other and then throw a chair in the press conference promoting the fight" schtick.
To shift the debate, I wonder if this will be the first Olympics (outside China) where China really thumps the USA
It would be epochal and symbolic
I think the yanks will reel them in and then beat them by about 30 medals. Always this pattern as the chinese get a lot of early medals in gymnastics, shooting etc then get none in Athletics whilst the USA sweep the athletics board
Hmm
That has always been the pattern for 20 years (excluding Beijing)
Given China's vastly greater population size and increasing relative wealth this will change one day soon. Perhaps now? Who knows
China is very large and very strong, but not without its own problems (which are sometimes forgotten about in the race to proclaim the eclipse of American power.) It has an ageing population to deal with, is very exposed to the effects of climate change, and has vast wealth disparities with many hundreds of millions of people still living in quite rudimentary conditions. The richest parts of China bear comparison with western Europe; the poorest with sub-Saharan Africa.
Besides which, if the Chinese were really determined to impress everyone by being the best in the world at sports then they would devote a lot more effort to the most popular one: football. As it is, they're currently ranked 77th. Indeed, Chinese success is unexpectedly limited even in disciplines that are popular and attract a lot of participation: China (population 1.4bn) boasts two of the elite top 16 players on the world snooker tour; Scotland (population 5.5m) has three.
As things currently stand the American team is five behind the Chinese on golds but one ahead on total medals. The athletics should see the States away and clear, as per usual.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Is it bad up in Leicester? I'm imagining that there may be a broad correlation between areas that already had comparatively poor health outcomes pre-Plague, those that were shellacked by the Plague, and those with horrendous waiting lists - but I've no idea to what extent this is true.
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
Out of interest, why do you refer to the Covid pandemic as 'the Plague'? Is it some attempt at light-heartedness to raise the mood a little?
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
You are being too pedantic. I call it The Plague as well
Because it is
I beg to differ. It may be a plague, it is not the Plague.
It's a colloquialism. Anyway, if I ever needed specifically to refer to the mid-14th Century horror, I'd probably call it the Black Death instead.
Comments
Why not a penny farthing race?
It is very hard work. I rowed in our 3rd boat at Medical school. We did 3 mile races and I could barely breathe by the end.
Participation maybe low, but there is public interest. The boat race always draws a crowd each spring.
The elite Olympic funding for basketball went on insurance premiums for a small number of NBA players who wouldn't otherwise be able to compete....now they withdrew it, none of those players are involved as they won't pay the premiums themselves
And even with the ringers, still nowhere near the top 10-15 teams in the world, as although informally played in the UK, the quality is piss poor. There is never any realistix prospect of ever winning a medal.
What is the world coming to?
Enjoy the game!
I suspect that a lot of the bleating about wokeism and soft soap stories is actually the product of watching coverage later on in the day in Japan (i.e. at a sane hour in the UK,) where there's perhaps been a bit less going on - especially in the first week, where a lot of the swimming finals were purposely moved to late morning in Japan/about 2am in the UK for the convenience of the American TV audience - or when the highlights packages are being shown. You're going to get more of the backstory filler material when there's less or no live action to broadcast.
Shanaze Reade appeared on one of Guy Martin's shows, where she rode a bicycle fast enough to climb a wall of death.
You wanna tell her she's not a cyclist?
Photographed from a Canberr https://t.co/2ptUmKJokX
https://twitter.com/RAF_Luton/status/1420719279436189696?s=19
It is impressive though!
A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...
The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.
Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
Fasting is great for the brain, the body, the mood
Put her on a proper bike and she'd clean up.
Maybe around 9th in the overall table at the end? Not ignoble, but quite a fall from Rio and London
Tokyo Olympics: Russians face backlash from fellow competitors
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58023171
It is pretty ridiculous. Either you punish nations or you don't, giving people the chance to skirt around it gives little incentive to not try something on in future, since at least some of your nation will still get to participate.
It would be epochal and symbolic
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus say they will continue with plans for a European Super League, claiming to have successfully argued against any punishment by Uefa.
A joint statement from the three clubs said a court decision on Friday in Madrid means European football's governing body have an "obligation" to terminate disciplinary proceedings against them.
Uefa paused action in June when the case was passed to the European Court of Justice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58032324
I fully support the European Super League now with it being open.
New plans being worked on for a European Super League involve the competition being 100 per cent open, with no clubs holding permanent membership, the PA news agency understands.
A statement from the three clubs which still endorse the hugely controversial project – Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus – released on Friday conceded there were “elements of (the) proposal that should be reviewed”.
It is understood one of the key changes would be that no club would be immune from relegation from the continental league. The notion of a ‘closed shop’ was one of the major criticisms of the plans first announced in April.
Sources close to the project have told PA that plans being worked on now are for a fully open competition, and that if the English qualifiers on merit were Leicester, Leeds, West Ham and Wolves in any given season, then they would be the clubs involved.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european-super-league-premier-league-european-court-of-justice-real-madrid-barcelona-b1894086.html
Although that evidences* my notion that BMX ain't cycling.
*Appalling word
The thing is the original proposal, they so could have easily fudged so there was an element of openness, but the founders still got the big rewards (thus meaning they didn't lose out if they missed it for a season and that they would always have the big financial advantage, so realistically they could buy themselves back in).
The UK is only the third Nation to win Gold in all 4 Olympic cycling disciplines
There is now no way any English club will join this (or German or French, I suspect) which surely means it cannot fly
Many moral lessons here. Also: Barca, Real, and Juve are DESPERATE
Elsewhere, rowing has done substantially worse. Diving has actually done worse too. Gymnastics looks like it will do worse. Swimming has done better, and boxing and sailing both look promising. Taekwondo and triathlon are there or thereabouts. The horsey events are as unpredictable as ever, and I've not a clue about whether or not the open water canoeing contingent have any realistic hopes. The remaining sports, e.g. judo, only contribute one or two medals each - though FWIW the British team will get nothing from tennis this time, nothing from badminton, and quite likely nothing from the lottery that is golf, either. None of which helps.
The biggie is track cycling. A strong, weak or indifferent performance in the velodrome is likely to be the difference between the British team performing towards the bottom of its target range or somewhere above the midpoint.
I expect waiting lists to continue ballooning. There are still a lot of referrals to be made when GPS eventually catch up with them.
For the purpose of electoral betting though it is worth noting that these will be very patchy. Some areas have been much more disrupted than others. Birmingham is a mess again for example, while some areas are getting off lightly, so have kept elective services going, and hence waiting lists short. Headline numbers are one thing, but personal experience is a much tougher
Come the 8th of August I expect you will be proclaiming the best ever GB medal haul as 'never in doubt'. 😜
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/30/michigan-gop-trump-election-fraud-501701
As a natural conservative, I hope the GOP burn in hell until the cancer that is Trumpism is entirely cauterized.
I do worry about their gymnasts though. What is the coaching like? I don't imagine they would be squeamish about Jurgen Grobler.
Walking around today, saw zero masks on the street. My general impression is that people are now trying to pursue a normal life as far as things they care about go (there's a big outdoor music festival next weekend, to which 200 people are expected), but trying to avoid taking risks for no good reason - and going back to the office is one of them. Now that it's becoming a realistic prospect (on a 2 days a week basis) from September, colleagues are distinctly unenthusiastic.
https://amp.ft.com/content/79772697-54e4-32c9-96d7-5c1110270eb2
Why they couldn't have just done what the IAAF did and let the Russian competitors take part under a neutral flag (and a trustworthy anti-doping regime) I can't possibly imagine. I'm sure it can't possibly have anything to do with bribery.
That has always been the pattern for 20 years (excluding Beijing)
Given China's vastly greater population size and increasing relative wealth this will change one day soon. Perhaps now? Who knows
Husband is a semi-regular visitor to Addenbrooke's due to various issues, and has barely suffered any disruption at all.
I have to get blood tests for a lifelong and sometimes wearying condition (not mortally threatening, but needs fairly regular checks)
Pre Covid this was always a bit of a rigmarole - go see the doc, he/she says Ooops, blood tests needed Leon!, then I was given a slip of paper, I had to turn up at a nearby hospital, sit in the queue (pften short, sometimes tediously long)
Post-Covid I emailed my GP, they swiftly emailed back a QR code, I scanned it off my laptop screen with my phone, that went straight to a choice of blood test slots, I now have a slot on Monday (of my choosing). That's it!
Really super efficient. So much better. Some things have IMPROVED
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9844701/SAGE-Covid-variant-kill-one-three-people.html
Watch this space. There is a clear focus. This is rising, not falling.
Obviously these things are about money, they always would be, but it was so nakedly greedy without any benefit to anyone else that is was shocking they were so unprepared for the backlash.
But I assume this is all just bluster to get more money from UEFA.
2) that wold still be over 3000km2 of gold courses which I do not believe.
The Plague is surely the infectious disease caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, and otherwise known as the Black Death. Or am I being too pedantic here?
Because it is
Can anyone remember that new resto Nabavi has been recommending? He has been oddly absent of late. Hope he;s all fine
Following @MaxPB's thoughts I've used some other data sources to recalculate the over 16 population in Newham away from the NIMS and nearer to the ONS estimates.
Newham has 78% of its population over 16 so is a younger area than the national average.
I estimate our over 16 population to be 284,190 or thereabouts - on that basis, 70.6% have had one dose and 49% both doses of the vaccine.
That's still behind the national figures but that may be explained by the higher proportion of younger adults and some still waiting for a second vaccination - yesterday, four second doses were given for every first dose.
The local East Ham leisure centre is opening on Sunday from 2-8pm for a walk in session for first or second Pfizer vaccinations.
Besides which, if the Chinese were really determined to impress everyone by being the best in the world at sports then they would devote a lot more effort to the most popular one: football. As it is, they're currently ranked 77th. Indeed, Chinese success is unexpectedly limited even in disciplines that are popular and attract a lot of participation: China (population 1.4bn) boasts two of the elite top 16 players on the world snooker tour; Scotland (population 5.5m) has three.
As things currently stand the American team is five behind the Chinese on golds but one ahead on total medals. The athletics should see the States away and clear, as per usual.
Good luck everyone.