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Olympic over/unders – The USA might be overrated – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    I initially thought this was some sort of anti mask thing but realised Spidey was in fact wearing a mask, to start with anyway. Society is probably fcuked, mind..

    https://twitter.com/Hodgeythehack/status/1418853087528296456?s=20
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    I think the snobbery against London is as bad as the snobbery against the rest of the country. I happen to think there are knobs wherever you come from

    Good thing London has all that extra money and public services to comfort it against the snobbery.

    In all seriousness as a Yorkshireman, I've nothing against any region of the UK, I'm not a snob against London and I think London is great. I just want my own region to have a fair share and I think I should be allowed to think that without it appearing like I want to take something away from London.
    I remember visiting Middlesbrough in 2002 when I had a nice bijou basement flat just off Upper Street N1, living the North London dream, and thinking “we have a big problem here”. It felt like a different country. That was my first sense of the problem that, 14 years later, gave us Brexit.
    Travelling from one part of London to another can feel like going to another country too. Parts of some boroughs of London have been left for decades to rot into the ground.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926
    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Great actor Anthony Quayle. Seriously overlooked from his generation. IIRC Alec Guinness was his best mate.
    Saw him as Lear at the Old Vic on a school trip way back when; pretty good.
    Gielgud described his face as “two tins of condemned veal” - which is why he was always destined to play Falstaff rather than Hal.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    edited July 2021

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    Same report here from Waitrose. Got a pretty decent bit of pork belly for my BBQ. Hopefully it doesn't rain.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,890
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Great actor Anthony Quayle. Seriously overlooked from his generation. IIRC Alec Guinness was his best mate.
    Saw him as Lear at the Old Vic on a school trip way back when; pretty good.
    Gielgud described his face as “two tins of condemned veal”.
    My favourite Gielgudism was him describing Edward Woodward’s name as sounding like a fart in a bubble bath.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    bigben said:

    ydoethur said:

    bigben said:

    ydoethur said:

    bigben said:

    ydoethur said:

    bigben said:

    Remember the nazis didnt start with death camps. It started with subtle discrimination against the Jews.

    There was no 'subtle discrimination.' It was out and out brutal repression from the start, including beatings, arson attacks, arrests and confiscation of property, from 1933-34 onwards.

    True, the death camps came later, from 1942, but if you're going to suggest that what's happening now bears the slightest resemblance to the actions of the SA in the early 1930s you should change what you're drinking.
    Holocaust survivors are saying this mate not me. Presumably holocaust survivors dont know what they are talking about. Fair enough it's a view
    Give me some evidence of this. An actual statement from a verified account of a genuine survivor.

    Oh, hold on, you've already said you can't.

    If there is one thing that annoys me more than Contrarian's nasty dishonest bullying hypocrisy, it's people misusing the Holocaust for their own political ends.
    To be fair mate theres a strong whiff of antisemitism in what you said there. Are you saying Jews exploit the holocaust for their own ends...its what your implying mate
    You are a liar, as well as an idiot.

    You have falsified information and now are making actually libellous allegations against me, given I am an historian of the Holocaust. Typical of a coward and a forger.

    PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE OR WITHDRAW YOUR CLAIMS.
    Mate I will give you the links when I find them. As a historian of the holocaust it upsets me you dismiss holocaust survivors in the way you do. They see the parallels to nazi germany...but of course you know better
    Yes. Because I am both highly intelligent and a minor expert in the field, and you're clearly lying.

    And, indeed, @Theuniondivvie has proved you are lying. What has been happening instead is that there have been claims that this is like the start of the Holocaust, which understandably upsets Holocaust survivors.

    Nobody is dismissing Holocaust survivors - except you. If that upsets you, stop doing it.

    Edit - incidentally, if you make a claim that you say is based on evidence, that evidence needs to be provided at once. Not at some unspecified future date. Show some integrity and moral courage, and withdraw your claims. You've clearly looked for evidence and not found it (your unlinked Tweet above proves that) because it isn't there.

    Oh, and then go and get vaccinated.
    Too late. It's been banned.
    Yep. Gone double avatar. An apt image. It's like it's died and the 2nd self is its soul ascending to that glorious Donald J Putin kingdom in the sky. Joining the man himself and all his little helpers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    bigben said:

    I think the time has come for us all to try and strongly persuade those of our friends and family who are vaccine hesitant to get the jab. If not they will be barred from most events and pubs and will struggle to lead a normal life in the UK. They will in effect become societal outcasts. See the speech by the PM of Israel

    How much pressure is to be applied to anti-vaxxers will depend very much on the progress of the disease over the next couple of months. If it becomes apparent that existing coverage is sufficient to end the emergency and keep us out of lockdown then nobody will care about the refusers. If it isn't then the public pressure to start stamping on them, and keep doing so until they either accept the jab or are forced into house arrest, will quickly become enormous.

    The great mass of the people won't tolerate being immiserated to respect the right of a minority to choose to be difficult.
    The refusers are not asking you to care about them. Most are happy to go back to their lives and take any risk that comes.

    I know I am.

    Its the government that is restricting your liberty, not the unvaccinated.

    The risk from refusing the vaccine is not just to yourself. You're a clear and present danger to others.
    If you are double vaccinated, as you undoubtedly are, then you risk getting a bad cold from me at worst.

    Unless of course you are claiming that the vaccines are not as effective as we are being told.

    Hardly a recommendation to get vaccinated.
    You have yet to provide a credible reason why you haven't got the vaccine.

    By credible, I don't mean a reason that makes sense to other people, I mean one that makes sense to you.
    That's a fair point. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theory stuff, but I also know people who have been very off colour after vaccination.

    I don't want to go into details because I would be accused of being an anti-vaxxer. But it has occurred to me that acquiring immunity via getting the disease might be been much easier.
    I see. Not having it because you're scared of the side effects. I understand that actually. It's odd to voluntarily take something you know will quite possibly make you feel ill for a few days.

    I felt exactly that myself and seriously considered skipping it. I had to force myself to do it. Gave myself a talking to and pushed my rational side to the fore. Just like I do when I get on a plane.

    So you have not (as yet) managed to push YOUR rational side to the fore on this one - is my conclusion. Would this be a fair way of expressing it?
    I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna. Here, you have a company that was near bankruptcy, found a wonder product that saved it in the form of a Covid vaccine, is using a new type of technology whose trials would normally take a decade but which have been rushed through during the pandemic and has liability waivers in place if anything goes wrong.
    "I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna."

    That's rather artful. But to what end?
    The only thing he got right in there was the first sentence. The rest if just anti-vaxxer bullshit from the Trump playbook.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    MaxPB said:

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    Same report here from Waitrose. Got a pretty decent bit of pork belly for my BBQ. Hopefully it doesn't rain.
    I'm afraid it probably will. You should have had it yesterday.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762

    I initially thought this was some sort of anti mask thing but realised Spidey was in fact wearing a mask, to start with anyway. Society is probably fcuked, mind..

    https://twitter.com/Hodgeythehack/status/1418853087528296456?s=20

    What the hell? GBH on a woman shop assistant, seemingly just for the LOLs?

    That’s got to be a worth good few years, hope the judge throws the book at him.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    Just be careful of anyone dressed up as a superhero.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    Same report here from Waitrose. Got a pretty decent bit of pork belly for my BBQ. Hopefully it doesn't rain.
    I'm afraid it probably will. You should have had it yesterday.
    It's just started raining here, but it didn't keep going for long.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,890
    edited July 2021

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    The Grebos, the Crusties, and the Goths all playing nicely together I take it?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow, I go out shopping and it all kicks off here. I can report a continued absence of shortages or panic buying in SE London, all very well supplied and civilised at the local Sainsbury's.

    Same report here from Waitrose. Got a pretty decent bit of pork belly for my BBQ. Hopefully it doesn't rain.
    I'm afraid it probably will. You should have had it yesterday.
    Did one yesterday already, this is for a few friends coming this evening. I've got a pergola so if it does rain it's not the end of the world.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    bigben said:

    I think the time has come for us all to try and strongly persuade those of our friends and family who are vaccine hesitant to get the jab. If not they will be barred from most events and pubs and will struggle to lead a normal life in the UK. They will in effect become societal outcasts. See the speech by the PM of Israel

    How much pressure is to be applied to anti-vaxxers will depend very much on the progress of the disease over the next couple of months. If it becomes apparent that existing coverage is sufficient to end the emergency and keep us out of lockdown then nobody will care about the refusers. If it isn't then the public pressure to start stamping on them, and keep doing so until they either accept the jab or are forced into house arrest, will quickly become enormous.

    The great mass of the people won't tolerate being immiserated to respect the right of a minority to choose to be difficult.
    The refusers are not asking you to care about them. Most are happy to go back to their lives and take any risk that comes.

    I know I am.

    Its the government that is restricting your liberty, not the unvaccinated.

    The risk from refusing the vaccine is not just to yourself. You're a clear and present danger to others.
    If you are double vaccinated, as you undoubtedly are, then you risk getting a bad cold from me at worst.

    Unless of course you are claiming that the vaccines are not as effective as we are being told.

    Hardly a recommendation to get vaccinated.
    You have yet to provide a credible reason why you haven't got the vaccine.

    By credible, I don't mean a reason that makes sense to other people, I mean one that makes sense to you.
    That's a fair point. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theory stuff, but I also know people who have been very off colour after vaccination.

    I don't want to go into details because I would be accused of being an anti-vaxxer. But it has occurred to me that acquiring immunity via getting the disease might be been much easier.
    I see. Not having it because you're scared of the side effects. I understand that actually. It's odd to voluntarily take something you know will quite possibly make you feel ill for a few days.

    I felt exactly that myself and seriously considered skipping it. I had to force myself to do it. Gave myself a talking to and pushed my rational side to the fore. Just like I do when I get on a plane.

    So you have not (as yet) managed to push YOUR rational side to the fore on this one - is my conclusion. Would this be a fair way of expressing it?
    I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna. Here, you have a company that was near bankruptcy, found a wonder product that saved it in the form of a Covid vaccine, is using a new type of technology whose trials would normally take a decade but which have been rushed through during the pandemic and has liability waivers in place if anything goes wrong.
    The new type of technology has indeed been in various trials for around a decade. Which is why it was very fortunately around to enable the speedy development of a Covid vaccine.
    And of course the Pfizer vaccine is essentially the same technology, so you ought to be equally concerned about that.

  • eekeek Posts: 17,262
    edited July 2021
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    bigben said:

    I think the time has come for us all to try and strongly persuade those of our friends and family who are vaccine hesitant to get the jab. If not they will be barred from most events and pubs and will struggle to lead a normal life in the UK. They will in effect become societal outcasts. See the speech by the PM of Israel

    How much pressure is to be applied to anti-vaxxers will depend very much on the progress of the disease over the next couple of months. If it becomes apparent that existing coverage is sufficient to end the emergency and keep us out of lockdown then nobody will care about the refusers. If it isn't then the public pressure to start stamping on them, and keep doing so until they either accept the jab or are forced into house arrest, will quickly become enormous.

    The great mass of the people won't tolerate being immiserated to respect the right of a minority to choose to be difficult.
    The refusers are not asking you to care about them. Most are happy to go back to their lives and take any risk that comes.

    I know I am.

    Its the government that is restricting your liberty, not the unvaccinated.

    The risk from refusing the vaccine is not just to yourself. You're a clear and present danger to others.
    If you are double vaccinated, as you undoubtedly are, then you risk getting a bad cold from me at worst.

    Unless of course you are claiming that the vaccines are not as effective as we are being told.

    Hardly a recommendation to get vaccinated.
    You have yet to provide a credible reason why you haven't got the vaccine.

    By credible, I don't mean a reason that makes sense to other people, I mean one that makes sense to you.
    That's a fair point. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theory stuff, but I also know people who have been very off colour after vaccination.

    I don't want to go into details because I would be accused of being an anti-vaxxer. But it has occurred to me that acquiring immunity via getting the disease might be been much easier.
    I see. Not having it because you're scared of the side effects. I understand that actually. It's odd to voluntarily take something you know will quite possibly make you feel ill for a few days.

    I felt exactly that myself and seriously considered skipping it. I had to force myself to do it. Gave myself a talking to and pushed my rational side to the fore. Just like I do when I get on a plane.

    So you have not (as yet) managed to push YOUR rational side to the fore on this one - is my conclusion. Would this be a fair way of expressing it?
    I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna. Here, you have a company that was near bankruptcy, found a wonder product that saved it in the form of a Covid vaccine, is using a new type of technology whose trials would normally take a decade but which have been rushed through during the pandemic and has liability waivers in place if anything goes wrong.
    "I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna."

    That's rather artful. But to what end?
    The only thing he got right in there was the first sentence. The rest if just anti-vaxxer bullshit from the Trump playbook.
    It's not even all the first sentence, the first part (6 words) of the sentence, makes the rest of it superfluous
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    bigben said:

    I think the time has come for us all to try and strongly persuade those of our friends and family who are vaccine hesitant to get the jab. If not they will be barred from most events and pubs and will struggle to lead a normal life in the UK. They will in effect become societal outcasts. See the speech by the PM of Israel

    How much pressure is to be applied to anti-vaxxers will depend very much on the progress of the disease over the next couple of months. If it becomes apparent that existing coverage is sufficient to end the emergency and keep us out of lockdown then nobody will care about the refusers. If it isn't then the public pressure to start stamping on them, and keep doing so until they either accept the jab or are forced into house arrest, will quickly become enormous.

    The great mass of the people won't tolerate being immiserated to respect the right of a minority to choose to be difficult.
    The refusers are not asking you to care about them. Most are happy to go back to their lives and take any risk that comes.

    I know I am.

    Its the government that is restricting your liberty, not the unvaccinated.

    The risk from refusing the vaccine is not just to yourself. You're a clear and present danger to others.
    If you are double vaccinated, as you undoubtedly are, then you risk getting a bad cold from me at worst.

    Unless of course you are claiming that the vaccines are not as effective as we are being told.

    Hardly a recommendation to get vaccinated.
    You have yet to provide a credible reason why you haven't got the vaccine.

    By credible, I don't mean a reason that makes sense to other people, I mean one that makes sense to you.
    That's a fair point. I don't believe any of the conspiracy theory stuff, but I also know people who have been very off colour after vaccination.

    I don't want to go into details because I would be accused of being an anti-vaxxer. But it has occurred to me that acquiring immunity via getting the disease might be been much easier.
    I see. Not having it because you're scared of the side effects. I understand that actually. It's odd to voluntarily take something you know will quite possibly make you feel ill for a few days.

    I felt exactly that myself and seriously considered skipping it. I had to force myself to do it. Gave myself a talking to and pushed my rational side to the fore. Just like I do when I get on a plane.

    So you have not (as yet) managed to push YOUR rational side to the fore on this one - is my conclusion. Would this be a fair way of expressing it?
    I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna. Here, you have a company that was near bankruptcy, found a wonder product that saved it in the form of a Covid vaccine, is using a new type of technology whose trials would normally take a decade but which have been rushed through during the pandemic and has liability waivers in place if anything goes wrong.
    "I have very little scientific knowledge but if I had to be concerned about one vaccine, it would be Moderna."

    That's rather artful. But to what end?
    The only thing he got right in there was the first sentence. The rest if just anti-vaxxer bullshit from the Trump playbook.
    Yes. I do have my (longstanding) suspicions about that poster but there's just enough value added stuff to stop me going pungent on him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Great actor Anthony Quayle. Seriously overlooked from his generation. IIRC Alec Guinness was his best mate.
    No offence to modern day thesps, but there were some seriously good actors of more or less that generation: Baker, Hawkins, Andrews, Mills, not to mention the knights. Most of them also served, some, as in Quayle’s case, enthusiastically (also Christopher Lee, Richard Todd). Gives an extra poignancy to all those post war British war films on which I was weaned.
    Christopher Lee, quite apart from his wartime service and acting, also witnessed the last public guillotine in France and recorded a heavy metal album. The kind of man you don’t meet everyday.
    Certainly livened up the commentary on the Lord of the Rings when Lee talks about the scene Saruman is killed, and how he adjusted the scene after asking the Director if he knew the sound someone makes when stabbed in the back, because he, Lee, did.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Don't over-dramatise.

    Reflect on to whom you are addressing your comments.

    On of my old shipmates was on FB from Pattaya yesterday. He was playing golf and rattling a bar girl that looked like Steptoe's horse without a care in the world.
    Time to send Steptoe's horse into the sunset and go scrabbling around used car lots. I had no idea people were paying £40-50,000 for old Japanese bangers from the 80's and 90's that most of us would have thrown away for scrap
    Anything over 25 years old has gone flying up in price, as the US market love old Jap stuff and they have a 25 year ‘classic’ import law.
    Does anyone know?

    https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/auctions/1987-toyota-corolla-ae86-gt-Dn7b6g
    Hachi Roku! Comes with the Initial D tax.



    Not my cup of Pocari Sweat but they are very desirable. They are quite slow and usually need a BEAMS swap to get the best out of it.
    But an insurance write off in 2006!
    The insurance company saw it as just an old car, they will have looked at the ‘book’ price and decided that the cost of respraying it was more than it was worth. This particular, well looked after and quite rare example, was indeed a future classic.

    There will be a good story to be told, of how an old lady realised the car she’d owned her whole life was suddenly worth a fortune.
    But do people know? I very much doubt it. There must be thousands of people with these cars hanging around that can't be bothered to take them to the tip with no idea that they have a value. I imagine if they did they'd collapse the market. Every farm you drive past has five or six rust buckets around the place
    Most of them are probably junk worth £50 to the local scrap metal dealer, but occasionally one turns out to be something rare worth money to a restorer.

    ‘Barn finds’ are a huge thing in the States, where someone just gets fed up fixing a car and parks it up, only for it to be found by their children several decades later.

    There’s one shop I know of in Texas, who have found a nice little sideline to their usual business of working on Jeeps, going round the South buying up barn find E-types, 911s, Sprites etc, for restoration. Awesome to see these old classics get put back on the road.
    https://collinsbrosjeep.com/

    As we all move over to EV appliances, there’s probably going to be a boom in classic cars. They’re not making any more of them!
    I had an Austin-Healey Sprite a few years ago, quite good fun, but the headlights, windscreen and seat belts were all pretty horrible. No synchromesh on 1st gear too. Fun on a nice autumn sunny day, but pretty horrible in rain or after dark. Very easy to park though, and like an original mini you realise how obese modern cars are in comparison.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    The free coffee was a great 'perk' - ha pun intended - but they dropped that ages ago.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,813
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    For the period March 2019 - Feb 2020 I did a detailed and thorough survey of the scones that were available to buy in the Wimbledon area of London and my conclusion was that those sold by Waitrose were markedly superior to any of the other available options.

    I took this as both a merit point for Waitrose and a demerit point for Wimbledon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
    Never seen it in a Morrisons round here (and there are three - Burntwood, Cannock and Rugeley). Asda sometimes have venison burgers, but again it's hit and miss.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    The spurious comparisons are yet another dismal trope emanating from the curious pathologies of the US right.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    Gnud said:

    bigben said:

    Remember the nazis didnt start with death camps. It started with subtle discrimination against the Jews.

    Mass murder in Germany started with the physically and mentally disabled - before death camps. Hundreds of thousands were forcibly sterilised beginning in 1933, and hundreds of thousands were murdered from 1939.
    The Nazis were killing Communists, intellectuals and especially Jewish ones from the beginning in 1933. It is all superbly documented at the Topography of Terror museum in Berlin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Gnud said:

    bigben said:

    Remember the nazis didnt start with death camps. It started with subtle discrimination against the Jews.

    Mass murder in Germany started with the physically and mentally disabled - before death camps. Hundreds of thousands were forcibly sterilised beginning in 1933, and hundreds of thousands were murdered from 1939.
    The Nazis were killing Communists, intellectuals and especially Jewish ones from the beginning in 1933. It is all superbly documented at the Topography of Terror museum in Berlin.
    As I recall, the first victims of Nazi repression while in office were 4000 Communists rounded up on the pretext that they were linked to van der Lubbe's arson attack on the Reichstag.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
    Never seen it in a Morrisons round here (and there are three - Burntwood, Cannock and Rugeley). Asda sometimes have venison burgers, but again it's hit and miss.
    Venison burgers? They must be deer!
    Don't play that...Game.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
    Never seen it in a Morrisons round here (and there are three - Burntwood, Cannock and Rugeley). Asda sometimes have venison burgers, but again it's hit and miss.
    Venison burgers? They must be deer!
    Don't play that...Game.
    Don't try to fallow that pun. We're all be hind a master. Anything else will be a doe moment (that's enough - Ed).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    No - each to their own and the world would be a boring place if everyone was the same is my view.

    But I am amused that such people are viewed as 'typical'.

    Leading to the bafflement of such people when they are outvoted by those who live in places which they couldn't find on a map. Pauline Kael's apocryphal quote being a classic example.

    But let me reverse your proposition - you think there is something fundamentally right about the person you described. With perhaps some personal yearning involved ? See your previous comments about needing to go to London to have 'power and influence' and to benefit from house price inflation.

    Ever heard New Model Army's 'Green and Grey' ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpV0Ot3EeM

    I think there's a little (but only a little, mustn't overdo it) of that in you and me.

    And the valleys of green and grey and now filled with new housing estates and country parks.
    Those are good lyrics. But I'd say it's simpler with me. I was glad to escape but it's sad that I had to. Also sad (in a different way) that even if I didn't have to, I still would have done.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Sainsbury's have partnered with a few specialist farms for BBQ meats this summer. Sadly I've not been able to get any but I'm told it's great from those who have managed to get it. It's something I'd expect from Waitrose, but they seem to be falling behind.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 39,061
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    You mean like Stratford Westfield? :lol:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    Foxy said:

    Gnud said:

    bigben said:

    Remember the nazis didnt start with death camps. It started with subtle discrimination against the Jews.

    Mass murder in Germany started with the physically and mentally disabled - before death camps. Hundreds of thousands were forcibly sterilised beginning in 1933, and hundreds of thousands were murdered from 1939.
    The Nazis were killing Communists, intellectuals and especially Jewish ones from the beginning in 1933. It is all superbly documented at the Topography of Terror museum in Berlin.
    It's a great museum.
    The visible remains of the tiled basement cells from the foundations of the Gestapo HQ on which the museum is built are chilling.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    Great header that!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144

    Great header that!

    Caroline Weir the difference in the team though
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,278
    Almost 200 Metropolitan Police officers accused of sexual misconduct in just 2 years
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/metropolitan-police-sexual-misconduct-b947482.html

    That's @Cyclefree's next header written.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 39,061
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
    Never seen it in a Morrisons round here (and there are three - Burntwood, Cannock and Rugeley). Asda sometimes have venison burgers, but again it's hit and miss.
    Venison burgers? They must be deer!
    Don't play that...Game.
    Don't try to fallow that pun. We're all be hind a master. Anything else will be a doe moment (that's enough - Ed).
    They sika him, they sika him there...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000

    I think the snobbery against London is as bad as the snobbery against the rest of the country. I happen to think there are knobs wherever you come from

    I'm happy to say I'm not a fan of London, too big for my sensibilities, but you can tell when it's not all in good fun.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    Lichfield's Waitrose is also the only place in southern Staffs where you can reliably get venison.

    There's a butcher in the city centre who sells it as well, but you have to take pot luck on him having it in stock.
    Morrisons do it, but in the form of packs of sausages and steaks rather than from their butchers counter.
    Never seen it in a Morrisons round here (and there are three - Burntwood, Cannock and Rugeley). Asda sometimes have venison burgers, but again it's hit and miss.
    Venison burgers? They must be deer!
    Don't play that...Game.
    Don't try to fallow that pun. We're all be hind a master. Anything else will be a doe moment (that's enough - Ed).
    They sika him, they sika him there...
    THere's no elk for you.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144

    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.

    The covid protocols at my local Waitrose are better than my local Coop so they currently get my business
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited July 2021

    Almost 200 Metropolitan Police officers accused of sexual misconduct in just 2 years
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/metropolitan-police-sexual-misconduct-b947482.html

    That's @Cyclefree's next header written.

    Presumably that includes the one nicknamed “The Rapist” - who not only turned out to be an actual rapist, but a murderer too?

    Get Dick out!
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    Some context: about 1 in 11 adults in Britain are unvaccinated.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Waitrose isn't cheap, but the quality is great. Well worth the difference in price, though sadly the Leicester one has gone. The East Cowes one is handy when getting off the Red Funnel though.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,278
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Gnud said:

    bigben said:

    Remember the nazis didnt start with death camps. It started with subtle discrimination against the Jews.

    Mass murder in Germany started with the physically and mentally disabled - before death camps. Hundreds of thousands were forcibly sterilised beginning in 1933, and hundreds of thousands were murdered from 1939.
    The Nazis were killing Communists, intellectuals and especially Jewish ones from the beginning in 1933. It is all superbly documented at the Topography of Terror museum in Berlin.
    And gays. Chris Bryant MP's book, The Glamour Boys, details how a group of largely Conservative, largely gay MPs, were amongst the first to oppose Hitler, and HMG's policy of appeasement. Berlin had been the gay capital of Europe (think Cabaret) and these MPs witnessed the violence towards homosexuals and Jews.
    https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/glamour-boys-9781526601711
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,562
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Cheap junk food is one of the curses of our time, and part of the reason for both suppressed agricultural wages and our obesity crisis. Quality and good husbandry costs. Britons spend half of what they did on food compared with 50 years ago, and it shows.

    The biggest problem in the last year has been getting a Waitrose delivery slot. It was a month ahead when I was isolating, when Sainsbury could do 48 hours.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    edited July 2021
    Gnud said:

    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    I think the snobbery against London is as bad as the snobbery against the rest of the country. I happen to think there are knobs wherever you come from

    Good thing London has all that extra money and public services to comfort it against the snobbery.

    In all seriousness as a Yorkshireman, I've nothing against any region of the UK, I'm not a snob against London and I think London is great. I just want my own region to have a fair share and I think I should be allowed to think that without it appearing like I want to take something away from London.
    I remember visiting Middlesbrough in 2002 when I had a nice bijou basement flat just off Upper Street N1, living the North London dream, and thinking “we have a big problem here”. It felt like a different country. That was my first sense of the problem that, 14 years later, gave us Brexit.
    Travelling from one part of London to another can feel like going to another country too. Parts of some boroughs of London have been left for decades to rot into the ground.
    I had the same feeling moving from Wigan to London in the mid eighties. And comparing Mayfair to King' s Cross or New Cross.
    It isn't recent at all.
    The fact it hasn't got much better, nor even been seriously addressed in 35 + years, is a scandal.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I suspect it won't be long before bigben is a stopped clock, and rightly so.

    If nothing else, s/he should be banned for calling everyone 'mate'.

    LOL looks like I missed some "fun" today.

    Its interesting how many users have come spreading ludicrous antivaxx claims and ended up being banned quite rapidly given that we're not a community of gullible people who don't know better.

    The effort some are going to, in order undermine the vaccines and encourage people to essentially possibly die as a result, is really, really depressing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,278
    Sandpit said:

    I initially thought this was some sort of anti mask thing but realised Spidey was in fact wearing a mask, to start with anyway. Society is probably fcuked, mind..

    https://twitter.com/Hodgeythehack/status/1418853087528296456?s=20

    What the hell? GBH on a woman shop assistant, seemingly just for the LOLs?

    That’s got to be a worth good few years, hope the judge throws the book at him.
    Five arrests so far. Had the woman he kicked and punched been getting stuck in earlier? Still not sure what was going on – it looked like a prank at first till they pushed the security guards out of the way – but it is surely evidence that cctv cameras are no deterrent, expecially to the fired up and stupid. And it is a sign of a sick society that supermarkets need bouncers in the first place.

    As an aside, there do seem to be some empty spaces on the shelves.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Let it go Richard.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    Gnud said:

    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    I think the snobbery against London is as bad as the snobbery against the rest of the country. I happen to think there are knobs wherever you come from

    Good thing London has all that extra money and public services to comfort it against the snobbery.

    In all seriousness as a Yorkshireman, I've nothing against any region of the UK, I'm not a snob against London and I think London is great. I just want my own region to have a fair share and I think I should be allowed to think that without it appearing like I want to take something away from London.
    I remember visiting Middlesbrough in 2002 when I had a nice bijou basement flat just off Upper Street N1, living the North London dream, and thinking “we have a big problem here”. It felt like a different country. That was my first sense of the problem that, 14 years later, gave us Brexit.
    Travelling from one part of London to another can feel like going to another country too. Parts of some boroughs of London have been left for decades to rot into the ground.
    I had the same feeling moving from Wigan to London in the mid eighties. And comparing Mayfair to King' s Cross or New Cross.
    It isn't recent at all.
    Surely anyone who's played Monopoly should know Mayfair and King's Cross are not going to be the same?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,278
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Cheap junk food is one of the curses of our time, and part of the reason for both suppressed agricultural wages and our obesity crisis. Quality and good husbandry costs. Britons spend half of what they did on food compared with 50 years ago, and it shows.

    The biggest problem in the last year has been getting a Waitrose delivery slot. It was a month ahead when I was isolating, when Sainsbury could do 48 hours.
    That doesn't help the obesity crisis – people like us waiting for deliveries rather than walking to the shops.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Waitrose isn't cheap, but the quality is great. Well worth the difference in price, though sadly the Leicester one has gone. The East Cowes one is handy when getting off the Red Funnel though.
    I've only been in Waitrose once, never lived within easy reach.
    Imagine my surprise, in this hive of Remainer Socialism, to come across my Conservative MP!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

  • Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Waitrose isn't cheap, but the quality is great. Well worth the difference in price, though sadly the Leicester one has gone. The East Cowes one is handy when getting off the Red Funnel though.
    I've only been in Waitrose once, never lived within easy reach.
    Imagine my surprise, in this hive of Remainer Socialism, to come across my Conservative MP!
    It's a broad church. One thing those two groups usually have in common is affluence.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Nigelb said:

    The spurious comparisons are yet another dismal trope emanating from the curious pathologies of the US right.
    Yes there's a lot to unpack there. Then gather it all up, put it back in the trunk, shut the lid, lock it, charter a boat, sail out to the deepest darkest part of a deep dark lake, and drop it over the side.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I vaguely know someone who sells meat on a large scale into supermarkets. He says the quality of the meat that his company sells to Waitrose and Marks and Spencer is indeed higher, while the rest are all the same, whether Aldi or Sainsburys.

    I gather it comes down to purchasing policies. The normal supermarket approach is to circulate a tender, specifying quantity, supply conditions, minimum standards etc and pick the one that meets the specification at the lowest price. M&S and Waitrose work on a VFM, where you can demand a higher price as long as you can justify it on a quality basis.

    I think Waitrose is more vulnerable than say Lidl on the he empty shelves issue. Customers expect choice and tip-top freshness. Lidl runs its supply very lean and accepts shortages as part of the business model.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Cheap junk food is one of the curses of our time, and part of the reason for both suppressed agricultural wages and our obesity crisis. Quality and good husbandry costs. Britons spend half of what they did on food compared with 50 years ago, and it shows.

    The biggest problem in the last year has been getting a Waitrose delivery slot. It was a month ahead when I was isolating, when Sainsbury could do 48 hours.
    I bought a chicken today, it cost four times as much as the cheap version. The life of a bargain basement broiler chicken must be absolute hell.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Let it go Richard.
    LOL

    The logical conclusion from the reports of the PB Waitrose fraternity.

    And from the locations of Waitrose.

    Here's an idea you might want to consider - Waitrose is the supermarket equivalent of the private school.

    An issue which you have opinions on.

    Perhaps a more equal society requires the end of Waitrose ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No joke.

    My local Morrisons and ASDA both provide an incredibly varied quality cheese selection.

    And my local ASDA now has a sushi section with people making fresh, great quality, sushi as opposed to pizzas etc as you normally see.

    My local Waitrose in the very few times I've been there has a much smaller selection. I used to go there as it was the one place I could get Nori etc but that's available everywhere now.
  • Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    Another Richard is showing he has low/no standards and couldn't tell his arse from his elbow.

    It would make my life easier if Fortnum & Mason opened up branches in Sheffield and Manchester.

    It is a godsend that there is a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Probably more the week after.
    As, I presume Athletics will completely monopolise one of the streams?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Yeah the IOC did the dirty on Europe. Now we (as in all 450m Europeans) have to watch trash Eurosport channels or Discovery+ which is not worth the subscription cost.

    Hopefully the IOC will realise how shite the idea was and will go back to individual country rights where the BBC or other terrestrial broadcaster will happily pay £100-150m for UK rights but won't pay £885m for European rights and then being forced to sub-lease those rights to other broadcasters.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Waitrose isn't cheap, but the quality is great. Well worth the difference in price, though sadly the Leicester one has gone. The East Cowes one is handy when getting off the Red Funnel though.
    Since we're now mainly on-line shopping the Waitrose ambience is not so much of a draw.

    Is Ocado now effectively M&S Food online, or does it offer a different range?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Let it go Richard.
    LOL

    The logical conclusion from the reports of the PB Waitrose fraternity.

    And from the locations of Waitrose.

    Here's an idea you might want to consider - Waitrose is the supermarket equivalent of the private school.

    An issue which you have opinions on.

    Perhaps a more equal society requires the end of Waitrose ?
    LOL I have no issue with Waitrose except it seems to be somewhere that charges a premium so people can avoid the hoi polloi. There's nothing they sell that's not available elsewhere now it seems, though there was a decade or so ago.

    Of course there's a big difference between Asda/Morrisons/Waitrose etc and Aldi/Lidl.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No Good Brie?

    Crisis!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Yeah the IOC did the dirty on Europe. Now we (as in all 450m Europeans) have to watch trash Eurosport channels or Discovery+ which is not worth the subscription cost.

    Hopefully the IOC will realise how shite the idea was and will go back to individual country rights where the BBC or other terrestrial broadcaster will happily pay £100-150m for UK rights but won't pay £885m for European rights and then being forced to sub-lease those rights to other broadcasters.
    I don't know if its still an option, but you could get Discovery+ for free from quite a wide variety of means.

    We got a free 12 month Discovery+ contract through our Sky Q contract. Seen it offered free with various mobile contracts etc too.
  • MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Yeah the IOC did the dirty on Europe. Now we (as in all 450m Europeans) have to watch trash Eurosport channels or Discovery+ which is not worth the subscription cost.

    Hopefully the IOC will realise how shite the idea was and will go back to individual country rights where the BBC or other terrestrial broadcaster will happily pay £100-150m for UK rights but won't pay £885m for European rights and then being forced to sub-lease those rights to other broadcasters.
    Money is king for the IOC, even before Covid-19 blow a hole through their finances.

    It is the same for UEFA they put the Champions League (and Europa League) behind a paywall for the last six years, it works for them.

    IIRC they no longer even sell highlights to ITV or anyone else since 2019.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107
    edited July 2021

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No Good Brie?

    Crisis!
    Funnily enough the Brie de Meaux in LIdl is better than the one in Waitrose. Every supermarket is better than the others for something.

    And ... anecdote ... the last time I was at Lidl there was a Maserati in the carpark, so either the owner recognised a bargain when he saw one, was having to economise because of the expense of his car, or was looking for a parking place in the area.
  • Excellent news, the PE teacher has been given a new contract.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57954333
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266

    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    Another Richard is showing he has low/no standards and couldn't tell his arse from his elbow.

    It would make my life easier if Fortnum & Mason opened up branches in Sheffield and Manchester.

    It is a godsend that there is a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras.
    We should do some blind testing on those who detect higher quality at the more expensive places:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting#Biases
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
    Well it does appear that there’s 9 new Eurosport channels, that are showing pretty much everything. Don’t know what they’re doing about the presentation or commentary,

    Perhaps they only wanted to sell the minimum to the BBC, or perhaps the price was too high, you know more people in sports rights than I do.

    What’s definitely true, is that the BBC Olympics coverage is a massive downgrade from what they’ve done previously - but the audience wasn’t expecting it, and has just realised today.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I vaguely know someone who sells meat on a large scale into supermarkets. He says the quality of the meat that his company sells to Waitrose and Marks and Spencer is indeed higher, while the rest are all the same, whether Aldi or Sainsburys.

    I gather it comes down to purchasing policies. The normal supermarket approach is to circulate a tender, specifying quantity, supply conditions, minimum standards etc and pick the one that meets the specification at the lowest price. M&S and Waitrose work on a VFM, where you can demand a higher price as long as you can justify it on a quality basis.

    I think Waitrose is more vulnerable than say Lidl on the he empty shelves issue. Customers expect choice and tip-top freshness. Lidl runs its supply very lean and accepts shortages as part of the business model.
    Doesn’t Morrison’s buy all its meat direct from the farmers ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982

    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    Another Richard is showing he has low/no standards and couldn't tell his arse from his elbow.

    It would make my life easier if Fortnum & Mason opened up branches in Sheffield and Manchester.

    It is a godsend that there is a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras.
    We should do some blind testing on those who detect higher quality at the more expensive places:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting#Biases
    Hard to blind taste store ambience or range.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,422

    dixiedean said:

    Gnud said:

    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    I think the snobbery against London is as bad as the snobbery against the rest of the country. I happen to think there are knobs wherever you come from

    Good thing London has all that extra money and public services to comfort it against the snobbery.

    In all seriousness as a Yorkshireman, I've nothing against any region of the UK, I'm not a snob against London and I think London is great. I just want my own region to have a fair share and I think I should be allowed to think that without it appearing like I want to take something away from London.
    I remember visiting Middlesbrough in 2002 when I had a nice bijou basement flat just off Upper Street N1, living the North London dream, and thinking “we have a big problem here”. It felt like a different country. That was my first sense of the problem that, 14 years later, gave us Brexit.
    Travelling from one part of London to another can feel like going to another country too. Parts of some boroughs of London have been left for decades to rot into the ground.
    I had the same feeling moving from Wigan to London in the mid eighties. And comparing Mayfair to King' s Cross or New Cross.
    It isn't recent at all.
    Surely anyone who's played Monopoly should know Mayfair and King's Cross are not going to be the same?
    Monopoly's out of date though. Whitechapel is posh/bohemian these days. And as for the three cheap blue Islington streets - metropolitan elite or what? Meanwhile, the expensive Oxford Street is largely full of tat.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
    Well it does appear that there’s 9 new Eurosport channels, that are showing pretty much everything. Don’t know what they’re doing about the presentation or commentary,

    Perhaps they only wanted to sell the minimum to the BBC, or perhaps the price was too high, you know more people in sports rights than I do.

    What’s definitely true, is that the BBC Olympics coverage is a massive downgrade from what they’ve done previously - but the audience wasn’t expecting it, and has just realised today.
    Must say I wasn't aware of this.
    But, then again, the Olympics seem to have come as something of a surprise to most.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    edited July 2021

    Excellent news, the PE teacher has been given a new contract.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57954333

    Well, he did enough to end up above your lot. 😜

    I think United have a chance of the title next season for the first time in years.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
    Well it does appear that there’s 9 new Eurosport channels, that are showing pretty much everything. Don’t know what they’re doing about the presentation or commentary,

    Perhaps they only wanted to sell the minimum to the BBC, or perhaps the price was too high, you know more people in sports rights than I do.

    What’s definitely true, is that the BBC Olympics coverage is a massive downgrade from what they’ve done previously - but the audience wasn’t expecting it, and has just realised today.
    What's remarkable is considering how much Discovery have paid the IOC, just how little advertising they've done for Discovery+ for it. You'd think they'd have been really pushing it.

    Maybe its just because I tune out most ads, but still, not seen any at all until today when it appeared as an ad within an app I was using.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Yeah the IOC did the dirty on Europe. Now we (as in all 450m Europeans) have to watch trash Eurosport channels or Discovery+ which is not worth the subscription cost.

    Hopefully the IOC will realise how shite the idea was and will go back to individual country rights where the BBC or other terrestrial broadcaster will happily pay £100-150m for UK rights but won't pay £885m for European rights and then being forced to sub-lease those rights to other broadcasters.
    Money is king for the IOC, even before Covid-19 blow a hole through their finances.

    It is the same for UEFA they put the Champions League (and Europa League) behind a paywall for the last six years, it works for them.

    IIRC they no longer even sell highlights to ITV or anyone else since 2019.
    After this the IOC could easily go back to individual national deals and make more money from selling rights to the UK, France, Germany and Italy than it does from the Discovery deal. The BBC alone would probably be ok with £150-175m per cycle and the likes of RTL would probably pay more. The governments of Europe could also end paywall tyranny by legislating that the Olympics are a pic event and should be made fully available to the people.

    The current deal is a pile of wank for the people.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I was always sceptical of the Waitrose reputation... until I started going there regularly. It's the ambience (calm, cool, and airy) + the choice. Price is awful of course but hardly relevant to most of their customers.
    Location and price to keep the proles out and so improve the experience for the affluent who will pay over the odds.

    Possibly a sound business model.

    But not one to endear it to those outside its target market.
    Let it go Richard.
    LOL

    The logical conclusion from the reports of the PB Waitrose fraternity.

    And from the locations of Waitrose.

    Here's an idea you might want to consider - Waitrose is the supermarket equivalent of the private school.

    An issue which you have opinions on.

    Perhaps a more equal society requires the end of Waitrose ?
    Well paying over the odds for king prawns isn't really warping the social fabric and hardcoding high and ever increasing levels of inequality through the generations - but other than that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800
    Waitrose have an excellent wide range of organic products.

    M&S and Booths do not.

    That is a major difference between the 'high end' supermarkets.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
    Well it does appear that there’s 9 new Eurosport channels, that are showing pretty much everything. Don’t know what they’re doing about the presentation or commentary,

    Perhaps they only wanted to sell the minimum to the BBC, or perhaps the price was too high, you know more people in sports rights than I do.

    What’s definitely true, is that the BBC Olympics coverage is a massive downgrade from what they’ve done previously - but the audience wasn’t expecting it, and has just realised today.
    Yeah, Sky offered to do the 2012 thing and give 20 odd channels for dedicated Olympic coverage for the BBC to use, BBC were keen but Discovery put the kibosh on it.

    Ultimately we have a new streamer looking to get customers with an exclusive product, the Olympics, their Mandalorian as it were.

    Doing plenty of the commentaries off tube is screwing things up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2021
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I vaguely know someone who sells meat on a large scale into supermarkets. He says the quality of the meat that his company sells to Waitrose and Marks and Spencer is indeed higher, while the rest are all the same, whether Aldi or Sainsburys.

    I gather it comes down to purchasing policies. The normal supermarket approach is to circulate a tender, specifying quantity, supply conditions, minimum standards etc and pick the one that meets the specification at the lowest price. M&S and Waitrose work on a VFM, where you can demand a higher price as long as you can justify it on a quality basis.

    I think Waitrose is more vulnerable than say Lidl on the he empty shelves issue. Customers expect choice and tip-top freshness. Lidl runs its supply very lean and accepts shortages as part of the business model.
    Doesn’t Morrison’s buy all its meat direct from the farmers ?
    They buy a considerable proportion of their stuff direct. They've got very good vertical integration.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,266

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No joke.

    My local Morrisons and ASDA both provide an incredibly varied quality cheese selection.

    And my local ASDA now has a sushi section with people making fresh, great quality, sushi as opposed to pizzas etc as you normally see.

    My local Waitrose in the very few times I've been there has a much smaller selection. I used to go there as it was the one place I could get Nori etc but that's available everywhere now.
    Perhaps ASDA and Morissons are better in the North than the South.

    I do wonder if each supermarket varies more around the country and we're all talking at cross purposes.

    Certainly the Waitrose in Sheffield is nothing special.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    I vaguely know someone who sells meat on a large scale into supermarkets. He says the quality of the meat that his company sells to Waitrose and Marks and Spencer is indeed higher, while the rest are all the same, whether Aldi or Sainsburys.

    I gather it comes down to purchasing policies. The normal supermarket approach is to circulate a tender, specifying quantity, supply conditions, minimum standards etc and pick the one that meets the specification at the lowest price. M&S and Waitrose work on a VFM, where you can demand a higher price as long as you can justify it on a quality basis.

    I think Waitrose is more vulnerable than say Lidl on the he empty shelves issue. Customers expect choice and tip-top freshness. Lidl runs its supply very lean and accepts shortages as part of the business model.
    What does he say about Morrisons, who aiui own most of their own supply chain?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Excellent news, the PE teacher has been given a new contract.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57954333

    Well, he did enough to end up above your lot. 😜

    I think United have a chance of the title next season for the first time in years.
    Hopefully Liverpool won't be on their sixth or seventh choice defender for much of the next season!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Day 1 of the Olympics, and already the BBC coverage is under fire.

    Apparently they’ve only licenced two simultaneous live streams of the Games, so can’t use the red button or website to show everything live.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/07/24/bbc-spark-olympic-coverage-fury-viewers-complain-lack-live-sports/

    The point has been made that the same people complaining about the lack of coverage are the same people who complain about the license fee...
    Besides, wouldn't the slightly reduced level of BBC coverage have something to do with the fact that they can only show, IIRC, a total of 200 hours live over the whole event? Since the main rights got flogged off to Eurosport, it's no wonder they've scaled back just a little.

    I'm sure that the "furious viewers" can cope without Greco-Roman wrestling and kayaking. It won't kill them.
    It’s not Greco-Roman wrestling that’s being complained about - it’s rowing, tennis and gymnastics.

    Yes, what happened is that the IOC sold the rights for the whole of Europe to Discovery for £885m, so local broadcasters have to sub-licence them. BBC have only paid for two live streams, which for the next week or so is going to cause a lot of conflicts.
    Isn't it a case of more that Discovery only let them have two streams so people would subscribe to Discovery and Eurosport?
    Well it does appear that there’s 9 new Eurosport channels, that are showing pretty much everything. Don’t know what they’re doing about the presentation or commentary,

    Perhaps they only wanted to sell the minimum to the BBC, or perhaps the price was too high, you know more people in sports rights than I do.

    What’s definitely true, is that the BBC Olympics coverage is a massive downgrade from what they’ve done previously - but the audience wasn’t expecting it, and has just realised today.
    Yeah, Sky offered to do the 2012 thing and give 20 odd channels for dedicated Olympic coverage for the BBC to use, BBC were keen but Discovery put the kibosh on it.

    Ultimately we have a new streamer looking to get customers with an exclusive product, the Olympics, their Mandalorian as it were.

    Doing plenty of the commentaries off tube is screwing things up.
    It's a shit idea because this is a once in 4 year event.
  • Excellent news, the PE teacher has been given a new contract.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57954333

    Well, he did enough to end up above your lot. 😜

    I think United have a chance of the title next season for the first time in years.
    Weird isn't it, United barely finished above Liverpool despite Liverpool having such an injury crisis which saw them play their 7th and 8th choice central defenders for the last few months of the season.

    It perhaps says more about the state of the league than anything about Solskjaer that 70.5 point pace has been the third best over the last few years.

    180 - Since Ole Gunnar Solskjær's first game in charge of the club in December 2018, only Manchester City (221) and Liverpool (217) have picked up more Premier League points than Manchester United's total of 180. Extension.


    https://twitter.com/BassTunedToRed/status/1418880950092636165

    Liverpool and Citeh have changed the benchmark, 97 points doesn't even win you the league these days.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No joke.

    My local Morrisons and ASDA both provide an incredibly varied quality cheese selection.

    And my local ASDA now has a sushi section with people making fresh, great quality, sushi as opposed to pizzas etc as you normally see.

    My local Waitrose in the very few times I've been there has a much smaller selection. I used to go there as it was the one place I could get Nori etc but that's available everywhere now.
    Perhaps ASDA and Morissons are better in the North than the South.

    I do wonder if each supermarket varies more around the country and we're all talking at cross purposes.

    Certainly the Waitrose in Sheffield is nothing special.
    Quite possibly. My local Morrisons and Asda are both absolutely massive and have quite a selection varying from cheap own branded stuff to really good quality stuff too.

    I think Morrisons in particular have really concentrated on the North so the regional issue may be quite real there.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    edited July 2021

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Alistair said:

    So polling conventional wisdom says it takes 3 days for "an event" to percolate into the polling.

    The fieldwork for this You Gov is 3 days after the Boris/Sunak will they won't they self isolate farce.

    This is identical to what happened with the wall paper
    Proud proclamation that no one cares.
    Point to immediate polls that don't have the reaction to the event in to prove that no-one cares.
    Shitting it when the polls start reflecting the event.
    Bold swagger once the even fades after 7 days.

    Seven days is how long an even takes to work out if it is a blip.

    The problem this time maybe, is events are rolling up like London buses. None for a while and then lots come at once

    Johnson's bad behaviour comes and goes, and we forgive and forget. Empty shelves, difficulty obtaining fuel, bins not being emptied, cancelled holidays, should they gain traction stay in the mind for generations.

    Voters who weren't even born in 1978/79 remember the Winter of Discontent.
    That's if they do come.

    The media babbling about empty shelves makes them look ridiculous if the shelves in the local supermarkets are full.

    And some middle class prat in London complaining that they cannot get a particular brand of balsamic in Waitrose is a source of amusement to much of the country.

    Though I have a suspicion that bins not being emptied is a potential problem - suburbia produces a lot of garden waste in the summer.
    I wonder what the ratio is between the following 2 things -

    (i) Gurus of Grim complaining about "middle class prats" complaining about the lack of (insert poncy product of choice) in Waitrose.

    (ii) Actual middle class prats actually complaining about the lack of (random poncy product) in Waitrose.

    I'm going for about 1000 to 1.
    In which case it would show that there is no shortage in Waitrose.

    And that the media babbling about empty shelves are only making themselves look ridiculous.

    Of course this should already be apparent after the 'there are no strawberries in the shops' claims of 2017:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659924/Sir-Vince-Cable-slammed-Wimbledon-strawberry-scare.html
    The highly educated, successful, professional who lives in an affluent part of London, travels a lot, particularly enjoys skiing, shops at Waitrose, supports Labour and voted Remain. This person offends something quite deep in you, Richard, it seems to me. There's something just fundamentally wrong about them in your eyes.
    Waitrose really is a sort of cultural bellwether with a rep it doesn’t deserve,
    Its rep is unmerited both ways -

    1. It isn't full of effete trendies and bumptious mumsnets.

    2. It isn't very good.
    But it does have a narrow, and predominantly southern middle class, range of locations.

    And it isn't very good value - though the Sheffield branch does provide free city centre parking.
    I’m always puzzled by the upmarket reputation of Waitrose. Unless you find a really big one, the food - meat, veg, bread - is generally better at M&S. And just as good at a decent Sainsbury’s. The wine in Waitrose is overpriced, if a tiny bit posher, maybe. Waitrose does stock some more unusual ingredients, oils, sauces, and so on, but something like Whole Foods outclasses it easily

    Waitrose’s reputation has been built entirely on location, I reckon. It inhabits very middle class areas or obviously upcoming areas which have nearly arrived. That’s it
    Any of the big four supermarkets will now provide the range of niche and upmarket items which would only be found in posh places a decade or two back. The internet also provides an alternative for specialised food purchasing.

    Which leads the posh places with a narrower usp in niche and upmarket items.
    Morrisons and Asda?? You must be joking.

    Just look at the cheese selections compared to Waitrose for an example.

    No joke.

    My local Morrisons and ASDA both provide an incredibly varied quality cheese selection.

    And my local ASDA now has a sushi section with people making fresh, great quality, sushi as opposed to pizzas etc as you normally see.

    My local Waitrose in the very few times I've been there has a much smaller selection. I used to go there as it was the one place I could get Nori etc but that's available everywhere now.
    Perhaps ASDA and Morissons are better in the North than the South.

    I do wonder if each supermarket varies more around the country and we're all talking at cross purposes.

    Certainly the Waitrose in Sheffield is nothing special.
    I was going to comment - my local Morrisons (Mansfield) have a huge variety of cheese in the fresh cheese counter.

    Never counted the varieties but it is a walk from one end to the other. For shop size, the car park is 750-1000 cars roughly.

    They also have Fray Bentos pies and Grape Nuts :smile:
This discussion has been closed.