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BBC Sports Personality of the Year – Doubting Dina Asher Smith – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    Clearly you have never had dealings with any civil servants at the DfE.

    They make Ursula von der Leyen look competent.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,476

    Scott_xP said:

    “I was very, very surprised at how poor Johnson’s speech was,” said Tim Bale, professor of politics at Queen Mary, University of London. “I would have thought that was an opportunity to set out the government’s stall and go back to the manifesto that won them the election in 2019.


    But as I posted at the time, I was actually impressed by Boris’s analysis of the problem, and if you could strip away the waffle - the high level solutions he outlined.

    It’s just that it was highly rambling and peppered with bathetic nuggets about “£10m to remove chewing gum”, and he totally lost his audience.

    My fear now is that the whole speech was so badly received that he has managed to spike the levelling up agenda - especially as he has surrounded himself with folks like Rishi, Javid and Kwarteng who are ideologically hostile.

    That would be a crying shame for the 60% of people who don’t live in the “South”.
    An ocean of money is needed if "levelling up" is more than just a slogan. From what I saw on Teesside the "towns fund" was a lot of promise of jam tomorrow, but then when you actually look at the cash on offer its a few million quid.

    Northern Tory voters have looked at the promise of Brexit and bribe money like the Towns Fund, and listened to the new generation of highly intelligent and strategic Tory MPs like Jacob Young and have concluded that their towns are going to get transformed and quickly.

    As reality sets in, what cash there is is not anywhere near enough to start with and seems to be promised to multiple towns at the same time. The gormless MPs like Young or Dehenna Davison will be shamelessly hyping every penny, so having been promised transformation people will then see their MPs trying to hype a new link road and a leisure centre as the town now being levelled up.
    The thing is, a small amount of money can go a long way if carefully directed. In fact, the interest of an MP can go a long way. You may see those MPs as gormless, but if they get off their backsides and actually promote their constituencies and regions they'll do a darned sight better than many of the Labour MPs they replaced. The late Stuart Bell being a classic example, wo thought the interests of Middlesborough were best dealt with from France.

    But it's not just Labour MPs: our last MP-but-one was Andrew Lansley, whose presence in, and perceived interest towards, the constituency was invisible. At least his two successors have been better in that regard.
    Johnsonianism is reading more like the cult of Corbynism by the day. We hate the opposition, but Centrist Remainers (like Lansley) are worse.

    On topic, Helen Glover looks a decent prospect.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,236
    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,745

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    Good news for @SeanT. Travel journalism seems to have become a thing again.

    Bad news for @SeanT. Hannah from the Telegraph got to spend four days on Richard Branson’s $105,000 a night private Carribean island.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/first-look-bransons-rebuilt-necker-island/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,113

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    If one person taking the knee has sealed the fate of GB News then the accusation that it's an empty political gesture needs to be reassessed 😶
    https://twitter.com/BizPears/status/1415977552125079556
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    kjh said:

    Mark Cavendish looks unlikely to break Eddy Merckx's record for Tour de France stage wins this year (though he has drawn level) so he looks an unlikely winner, even given the power of the cycling block vote in SPotY. Yesterday was supposed to be his big chance but he finished down the field.

    Football? If you knew who would be shortlisted from England's Euro 2020 team, he'd be a short price, but we don't. There was no outstanding performer. Raheem Sterling possibly but wait for the shortlist and remember Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish viewers also get to vote.

    So against the header, I think Dina Asher-Smith probably ought now to be favourite and 6/1 (Skybet) is arguably a good price (9/2 next best). I say arguably because as @Quincel notes in the header, she does need to win at the Olympics.

    Manxman Cavendish has a good chance on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées on Sunday. Now *that* would really be something. Can hardly think of a more symbolic occasion to go for the Eddy Merckx record.
    Yes he will be the red hot favourite as a breakaway can't happen until they are in Paris and that is very hard and his lead out team is excellent and he has little competition. I can only see a cockup/ crash stopping him. Although he was favourite yesterday a breakaway was always possible and happened.

    For several years he was unbeaten there.

    As you say an excellent venue for it and Merckx will be there.
    Breakaway victories on the Champs Élysées are very rare in the modern era. Last one was Vinokourov in 2005 (I think)?

    A bunch sprint must be 1/5, and Cavendish must be at least EVS to win a sprint.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,974

    Scott_xP said:

    “I was very, very surprised at how poor Johnson’s speech was,” said Tim Bale, professor of politics at Queen Mary, University of London. “I would have thought that was an opportunity to set out the government’s stall and go back to the manifesto that won them the election in 2019.


    But as I posted at the time, I was actually impressed by Boris’s analysis of the problem, and if you could strip away the waffle - the high level solutions he outlined.

    It’s just that it was highly rambling and peppered with bathetic nuggets about “£10m to remove chewing gum”, and he totally lost his audience.

    My fear now is that the whole speech was so badly received that he has managed to spike the levelling up agenda - especially as he has surrounded himself with folks like Rishi, Javid and Kwarteng who are ideologically hostile.

    That would be a crying shame for the 60% of people who don’t live in the “South”.
    An ocean of money is needed if "levelling up" is more than just a slogan. From what I saw on Teesside the "towns fund" was a lot of promise of jam tomorrow, but then when you actually look at the cash on offer its a few million quid.

    Northern Tory voters have looked at the promise of Brexit and bribe money like the Towns Fund, and listened to the new generation of highly intelligent and strategic Tory MPs like Jacob Young and have concluded that their towns are going to get transformed and quickly.

    As reality sets in, what cash there is is not anywhere near enough to start with and seems to be promised to multiple towns at the same time. The gormless MPs like Young or Dehenna Davison will be shamelessly hyping every penny, so having been promised transformation people will then see their MPs trying to hype a new link road and a leisure centre as the town now being levelled up.
    The thing is, a small amount of money can go a long way if carefully directed. In fact, the interest of an MP can go a long way. You may see those MPs as gormless, but if they get off their backsides and actually promote their constituencies and regions they'll do a darned sight better than many of the Labour MPs they replaced. The late Stuart Bell being a classic example, wo thought the interests of Middlesborough were best dealt with from France.

    But it's not just Labour MPs: our last MP-but-one was Andrew Lansley, whose presence in, and perceived interest towards, the constituency was invisible. At least his two successors have been better in that regard.
    Johnsonianism is reading more like the cult of Corbynism by the day. We hate the opposition, but Centrist Remainers (like Lansley) are worse.

    (Snip)
    Is that directed at me? If so, it's rather misdirected, as I don't think Johnson should be PM, I voted remain, I was a Rory Stewart fan, and see myself as centrist. ;)

    My point was that MPs who are visible in, and work for, their constituencies are better for their constituents than ones who see Westminster as their focus. I gave examples in both Labour and the Conservatives to back that point up...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:

    Paging SeanT...

    Not content with destroying the livelihoods of Hauliers, Farmers, Fishermen, Actors & Musicians, Lying @BorisJohnson has now turned his attention to Authors & Publishers. The ‘post Brexit’ plan will significantly impact intellectual property rights & smother the book industry.
    🤬

    https://twitter.com/Jgs_x/status/1416281211526340610

    What’s he doing? Unwinding the stupid rules that France pushed through against British opposition?
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Not exactly a case of history repeating itself if Brillo/Brilleaux leaves but Johnson stays.
    (That's a joke for men of a certain age. The clue is in the Feelgood factor.)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,109

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    If I'm honest I don't understand why so much of a fuss has been created.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917
    tlg86 said:

    Adam Peaty could be a dark horse for SPOTY.

    He looks our best bet for a gold medal. We’ve got used to winning lots, but we’re due a relatively poor games. I think if Asher Smith, one of the Kennys or Glover wins gold, then Peaty doesn’t win SPoTY. But it’s far from impossible that he’s our standout performer at the games.
    He is our most reliable favourite across swimming or athletics by far but only competing in one individual event, as 50m is only freestyle at the Olympics. Not sure if he is doing both available relays or how strong GB are in those but probably needs to win one of those as well.

    Asher-Smith is definitely problematic at 6/1 and generally shorter, the womens sprints are wide open, and she pulled out of an event last week for an injury niggle. KJT will do well to finish her heptathlon. If I had to have a bet on this market it would be on the two Kennys at 16/1 and 33/1.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,874
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    Clearly you have never had dealings with any civil servants at the DfE.

    They make Ursula von der Leyen look competent.
    I see your DfE civil servants and raise you DBIS
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    God no. It’s only the ministers (of whatever stripe) who prevent the whole thing being run purely for the benefit of those working there.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    A tad unfair. I don't know if you read The Guardian, but it publishes endless articles agonising about and analysing exactly the issue you raise in your last sentence. The 'progressive alliance' is often (still) aired. The analysis is often fine. Where it falls short is on the "what to do about it" segment.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    “I was very, very surprised at how poor Johnson’s speech was,” said Tim Bale, professor of politics at Queen Mary, University of London. “I would have thought that was an opportunity to set out the government’s stall and go back to the manifesto that won them the election in 2019.


    But as I posted at the time, I was actually impressed by Boris’s analysis of the problem, and if you could strip away the waffle - the high level solutions he outlined.

    It’s just that it was highly rambling and peppered with bathetic nuggets about “£10m to remove chewing gum”, and he totally lost his audience.

    My fear now is that the whole speech was so badly received that he has managed to spike the levelling up agenda - especially as he has surrounded himself with folks like Rishi, Javid and Kwarteng who are ideologically hostile.

    That would be a crying shame for the 60% of people who don’t live in the “South”.
    An ocean of money is needed if "levelling up" is more than just a slogan. From what I saw on Teesside the "towns fund" was a lot of promise of jam tomorrow, but then when you actually look at the cash on offer its a few million quid.

    Northern Tory voters have looked at the promise of Brexit and bribe money like the Towns Fund, and listened to the new generation of highly intelligent and strategic Tory MPs like Jacob Young and have concluded that their towns are going to get transformed and quickly.

    As reality sets in, what cash there is is not anywhere near enough to start with and seems to be promised to multiple towns at the same time. The gormless MPs like Young or Dehenna Davison will be shamelessly hyping every penny, so having been promised transformation people will then see their MPs trying to hype a new link road and a leisure centre as the town now being levelled up.
    The thing is, a small amount of money can go a long way if carefully directed. In fact, the interest of an MP can go a long way. You may see those MPs as gormless, but if they get off their backsides and actually promote their constituencies and regions they'll do a darned sight better than many of the Labour MPs they replaced. The late Stuart Bell being a classic example, wo thought the interests of Middlesborough were best dealt with from France.

    But it's not just Labour MPs: our last MP-but-one was Andrew Lansley, whose presence in, and perceived interest towards, the constituency was invisible. At least his two successors have been better in that regard.
    Johnsonianism is reading more like the cult of Corbynism by the day. We hate the opposition, but Centrist Remainers (like Lansley) are worse.

    (Snip)
    Is that directed at me? If so, it's rather misdirected, as I don't think Johnson should be PM, I voted remain, I was a Rory Stewart fan, and see myself as centrist. ;)

    My point was that MPs who are visible in, and work for, their constituencies are better for their constituents than ones who see Westminster as their focus. I gave examples in both Labour and the Conservatives to back that point up...
    Over the years I'been represented in Parliament by several MPs. Don't recall much about the first one (a Labour Cabinet Minister), but my father always got on well with him. The second, Bernard Braine*, was generally held to be an excellent constituency MP. About the third, his successor, Bob Spink, the less said the better. The Labour lady who took the seat from him was somewhat out of her depth at first, but was working on it when Bob won the seat back. Then I moved to North Essex and was in Alan Hurst's constituency. Again, a decent man who was replaced by Brooks Newmark (!). Now, as a result of redistribution I'm in Priti Patel's Witham. Personally very pleasant, and helpful, but I can't stand many of her views and actions.

    *In my Care Home Inspection Days I inspected the Home where Sir Bernard spent his last couple of years. In his very confused last couple of years he was always asking for space to talk to his constituents, and could often be found surrounded by several of the other equally confused residents 'explaining' something or other to them. Sad, but typical of the man.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,745
    edited July 2021

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    A tad unfair. I don't know if you read The Guardian, but it publishes endless articles agonising about and analysing exactly the issue you raise in your last sentence. The 'progressive alliance' is often (still) aired. The analysis is often fine. Where it falls short is on the "what to do about it" segment.
    The impotent handwringing on the left since Communism collapsed in 1989 is at least an improvement on the treacherous sedition before that year.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    #Tokyo2020 organisers also confirm the number of positive cases linked to the Games has risen to 44 - at least five athletes. In Tokyo generally, cases are above 1,000 for a third straight day.
    https://twitter.com/SarahDawkins23/status/1416260373569806337

    Holding the Olympics is batshit crazy. Never mind having to do it only for IOC VIPs (though as its always just for them its quite nice that they can stop pretending they care about anyone else), the games are already being hit by the pox in the village and it hasn't started yet.

    What are the IOC's rules when the 8 people who qualified for the Mens 100m final all get exposed to Covid because three of them have just tested positive?
    In the case of a significant infection risk, the rule is that all track races must be held on treadmills inside airport-style smoking cabins.

    The importance ascribed to people watching other people run around in circles advertising stuff during a pandemic shows what a kookhouse culture we're living in.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.

    So that they can blame the EU when we get defeated?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.

    I assume the author is happy to lay us as much 50/1 on the British Isles winning the bid as we like?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    edited July 2021
    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    A tad unfair. I don't know if you read The Guardian, but it publishes endless articles agonising about and analysing exactly the issue you raise in your last sentence. The 'progressive alliance' is often (still) aired. The analysis is often fine. Where it falls short is on the "what to do about it" segment.
    The impotent handwringing on the left since Communism collapsed in 1989 is at least an improvement on the treacherous sedition before that year.
    I keep re-reading this response to my comment and I'm still none the wiser. What on earth do you mean? Are you saying The Guardian, or the left, was engaged in 'treacherous sedition' before 1989?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,404
    MaxPB said:

    The issue with the French thing is not the decision per se; it’s the arbitrary and opaque nature of it.

    Nobody knows why France has been chosen.
    Nobody knows why a new colour has been invented for it.
    Nobody knows why the announcement was made at 8pm on a Friday evening.

    Very high prevalence of Beta which has got higher levers of vaccine escape. However, the French delta wave is taking off so it might only be for a couple of weeks as delta will quickly dominate and outcompete the other variants for hosts.
    They just don't like the French and so it is petty points scoring at any opportunity. It will come back to haunt them as ever, jingo bells jingo bells jingo all the way.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,113
    It's been quite the week in the culture wars. One Tory insider told @Alain_Tolhurst No.10 was "obsessed" with red wall voters, but feared they had created a caricature and completely misjudged the national mood.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/wedged-in-how-the-culture-war-backfired-on-the-tories
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    The issue with the French thing is not the decision per se; it’s the arbitrary and opaque nature of it.

    Nobody knows why France has been chosen.
    Nobody knows why a new colour has been invented for it.
    Nobody knows why the announcement was made at 8pm on a Friday evening.

    Very high prevalence of Beta which has got higher levers of vaccine escape. However, the French delta wave is taking off so it might only be for a couple of weeks as delta will quickly dominate and outcompete the other variants for hosts.
    They just don't like the French and so it is petty points scoring at any opportunity. It will come back to haunt them as ever, jingo bells jingo bells jingo all the way.
    In this case, it sounds unlikely given the leaks about scientists apparently urging France to be added to the red list. I think it's pretty clear that the Govt just decided that was not plausible but went for this as a compromise to placate them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177

    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    A tad unfair. I don't know if you read The Guardian, but it publishes endless articles agonising about and analysing exactly the issue you raise in your last sentence. The 'progressive alliance' is often (still) aired. The analysis is often fine. Where it falls short is on the "what to do about it" segment.
    The impotent handwringing on the left since Communism collapsed in 1989 is at least an improvement on the treacherous sedition before that year.
    I keep re-reading this response to my comment and I'm still none the wiser. What on earth do you mean? Are you saying The Guardian, or the left, was engaged in 'treacherous sedition' before 1989?
    Of course he is; those of us on the Left were always told we weren't 'loyal' for some reason or other before then.
    Sometimes by people with large off-shore accounts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    Clearly you have never had dealings with any civil servants at the DfE.

    They make Ursula von der Leyen look competent.
    Could we worse the DoH lives up to its name...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Scott_xP said:

    It's been quite the week in the culture wars. One Tory insider told @Alain_Tolhurst No.10 was "obsessed" with red wall voters, but feared they had created a caricature and completely misjudged the national mood.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/wedged-in-how-the-culture-war-backfired-on-the-tories

    Fantastic opportunity here for LibDems. Johnson Tories are forgetting their bedrock whilst chasing the very edges of their grand coalition.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,404
    alex_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    The issue with the French thing is not the decision per se; it’s the arbitrary and opaque nature of it.

    Nobody knows why France has been chosen.
    Nobody knows why a new colour has been invented for it.
    Nobody knows why the announcement was made at 8pm on a Friday evening.

    Very high prevalence of Beta which has got higher levers of vaccine escape. However, the French delta wave is taking off so it might only be for a couple of weeks as delta will quickly dominate and outcompete the other variants for hosts.
    They just don't like the French and so it is petty points scoring at any opportunity. It will come back to haunt them as ever, jingo bells jingo bells jingo all the way.
    In this case, it sounds unlikely given the leaks about scientists apparently urging France to be added to the red list. I think it's pretty clear that the Govt just decided that was not plausible but went for this as a compromise to placate them.
    worst of both worlds and piss everyone off.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,109

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,874
    edited July 2021
    This is for @NerysHughes following the regular post about mask wearing and the incorrect use of a statistic. I think this is a very good example of how people without an understanding of maths (or common sense) can really get stuff wrong.

    Just announced - 46% of deaths due to the Delta virus (118) were double vaxed.

    Incorrect conclusion: the double vax does not work against the delta variant. PANIC!

    Take this to its logical/illogical conclusion - if we were all double vaxed then 100% of deaths due to the delta virus would have been double vaxed people.

    This statement would be both true and utterly meaningless because the double vax maybe stopping tens of thousands of deaths. It doesn't matter if it is 1 death or 10,000 deaths it is still 100% double vaxed people. It is a meaningless fact.

    Now @NerysHughes have a look at the statement you keep coming out with and see if there are any similarities with drawing wrong conclusions.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    Scott_xP said:

    It's been quite the week in the culture wars. One Tory insider told @Alain_Tolhurst No.10 was "obsessed" with red wall voters, but feared they had created a caricature and completely misjudged the national mood.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/wedged-in-how-the-culture-war-backfired-on-the-tories

    Yes, it seems that the stereotyping of the Red Wall as neanderthal bigots is at least as much a problem for the Tories as for elements of Labour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    Double irony as the Trump loons don't believe in Darwinism. God created the Earth as it is 6,000 years ago.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,247

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
    Plus the geographical split.

    There's a lot of resentment towards Boris from people who think the Conservative party should be focused solely on the interests of the privileged and affluent in London and southern England.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    tlg86 said:

    Adam Peaty could be a dark horse for SPOTY.

    He looks our best bet for a gold medal. We’ve got used to winning lots, but we’re due a relatively poor games. I think if Asher Smith, one of the Kennys or Glover wins gold, then Peaty doesn’t win SPoTY. But it’s far from impossible that he’s our standout performer at the games.
    He is our most reliable favourite across swimming or athletics by far but only competing in one individual event, as 50m is only freestyle at the Olympics. Not sure if he is doing both available relays or how strong GB are in those but probably needs to win one of those as well.

    Asher-Smith is definitely problematic at 6/1 and generally shorter, the womens sprints are wide open, and she pulled out of an event last week for an injury niggle. KJT will do well to finish her heptathlon. If I had to have a bet on this market it would be on the two Kennys at 16/1 and 33/1.
    A fair assessment. My only doubt on the Kennys (and Cavendish for that matter) is that I have a feeling that the public are a bit “meh” about our success in the cycling.

    If both Kennys win a gold it could be quite fun as that really ought to be the story of the summer and it could become a Mr v Mrs battle for SPoTY. But the public are so hard to judge. It’s FPTP, but I don’t know how many vote for who they think might have a chance of winning.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
    Boris is not appealing to the right, centre or left, but the nostalgic. As someone who would consider themself in the centre, he is almost as far from appealing to me as you can get.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,113
    The one bit of traditional Conservative thinking Johnson actually adheres to is not believing government should "level" anything, whether up, down or all around. That's part of the reason why he's incapable of making any sense of his slogan. The other part is his incompetence.
    https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1416319650649022464
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    Double irony as the Trump loons don't believe in Darwinism. God created the Earth as it is 6,000 years ago.
    So Covid-19 has been around since then. What about the mutations?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.

    I assume the author is happy to lay us as much 50/1 on the British Isles winning the bid as we like?
    Is there a market up on this? Any idea when the decision is due?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147
    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    Not even Josh Taylor's mum knows he is undisputed world champion because he won on something called Fite TV and not proper telly. Having said that, he might be worth a second glance if the Olympics is a total wipeout and Taylor has not lost his titles by then. Otherwise, no.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917
    Foxy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.

    I assume the author is happy to lay us as much 50/1 on the British Isles winning the bid as we like?
    Is there a market up on this? Any idea when the decision is due?
    Not til 2024.

    Not sure which bookies are offering the market but this report had British Isles second favs, but that was before the final. https://www.gambling.com/news/who-will-host-2030-fifa-world-cup-2582600
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,101
    Not keen on yet another cyclist winning Spoty but I see the case for Cavendish and there's no obvious danger. 3/1 looks fair to me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    Double irony as the Trump loons don't believe in Darwinism. God created the Earth as it is 6,000 years ago.
    So Covid-19 has been around since then. What about the mutations?
    Don't count. Within the normal range of variation of each divinely fixed species. (Which was the official mainstream position till the mid-C19 at the earliest.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's been quite the week in the culture wars. One Tory insider told @Alain_Tolhurst No.10 was "obsessed" with red wall voters, but feared they had created a caricature and completely misjudged the national mood.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/wedged-in-how-the-culture-war-backfired-on-the-tories

    Yes, it seems that the stereotyping of the Red Wall as neanderthal bigots is at least as much a problem for the Tories as for elements of Labour.
    Not sure if it is 'at least as much' a problem for them, but it's certainly true the extent of the Red Wall has morphed in peoples' minds a bit, and it's homogenity of thought exaggerated. I think that cowardly (for not giving a name) insider is probably correct, as 'how will it play in the Red Wall?' seems to be the first and only question a lot of the time.

    As rottenborough notes it opens up opportunities particularly for the LDs, as we have seen. Sure, the Tory bedrock is probably solid enough for another election, but they are overdoing the love bombing of the Red Wall compared to elsewhere.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
    No democracy for Scotland, if FUDHY is to be believed. If direct rule is so fabby then why not for England too?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    Double irony as the Trump loons don't believe in Darwinism. God created the Earth as it is 6,000 years ago.
    So Covid-19 has been around since then. What about the mutations?
    Divine punishment for not electing God's Chosen.

    But in fairness I doubt all of Trump's people are religious zealots.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
    No democracy for Scotland, if FUDHY is to be believed. If direct rule is so fabby then why not for England too?
    Perhaps he could meet you halfway and instead of democracy or no democracy you could have one of those fashionable democracies around the globe where you can vote, but only for the agreed party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,101
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    As with so much in life, a matter of inches. 4 to the right and Rash's pen goes in off the post, looks ultra cool, and we win the trophy.

    But I'm breaking my pledge to myself (for mental health) not to dwell on it. It's history. You have to look forward in life even as you get old. Especially as you get old, in fact.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,476
    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    A tad unfair. I don't know if you read The Guardian, but it publishes endless articles agonising about and analysing exactly the issue you raise in your last sentence. The 'progressive alliance' is often (still) aired. The analysis is often fine. Where it falls short is on the "what to do about it" segment.
    The impotent handwringing on the left since Communism collapsed in 1989 is at least an improvement on the treacherous sedition before that year.
    Please tune to GBNews. You are exactly the viewer they need.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    That’s a trite response. Sure there are Trumpites but there are also plenty of underprivileged communities and minority groups who share many of the same concerns as the good folk of Leicester
  • eekeek Posts: 21,770
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Paging SeanT...

    Not content with destroying the livelihoods of Hauliers, Farmers, Fishermen, Actors & Musicians, Lying @BorisJohnson has now turned his attention to Authors & Publishers. The ‘post Brexit’ plan will significantly impact intellectual property rights & smother the book industry.
    🤬

    https://twitter.com/Jgs_x/status/1416281211526340610

    What’s he doing? Unwinding the stupid rules that France pushed through against British opposition?
    Issue is covered here https://twitter.com/cmlwilson/status/1413750228281352192?s=21 and https://www.saveourbooks.org.uk/about

    Following our departure from the European Union, the UK government is currently consulting on a change to the UK intellectual property framework which could have wide-ranging impacts for UK authors, publishers and the wider book sector.
    You’ve probably never heard of it, but this change is to something called the UK’s “exhaustion regime”, which sets the rules for parallel imports of IP-protected goods into the UK. The current exhaustion regime allows UK authors and publishers to price appropriately for international markets and stops the unauthorised importing of international (non-EEA) copies of books into the UK, undercutting the domestic market. This copyright protection is crucial for UK authors selling their works abroad.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,823

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Said nobody....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286

    Foxy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    One other small point. What is the justification in now spending public money on a World Cup bid that has no chance of succeeding.

    I assume the author is happy to lay us as much 50/1 on the British Isles winning the bid as we like?
    Is there a market up on this? Any idea when the decision is due?
    Not til 2024.

    Not sure which bookies are offering the market but this report had British Isles second favs, but that was before the final. https://www.gambling.com/news/who-will-host-2030-fifa-world-cup-2582600
    Unlike Dan Hodges, I'm neither doomster nor gloomster on our chance of hosting the World Cup. A little local difficulty with Wembley security is easily addressed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,823
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    That’s a trite response. Sure there are Trumpites but there are also plenty of underprivileged communities and minority groups who share many of the same concerns as the good folk of Leicester
    Sure, but antivaxx superstition is running into the brick wall of science whether you are a Pentocostal Redneck or Leicester Muslim.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917
    Anyone betting on the Olympics should consider the impact of covid on the drug testing regimes. Watch the heats and dont be at all surprised by some very unexpected PBs.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,250

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Guido looking down his nose at its 'culture war rants'? Hmm...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,846
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    I see for clarity rather than move France to red we have moved it to amber with red spots.

    Much better to holiday on the Isle of Wight. If you can get there...

    https://www.islandecho.co.uk/red-funnel-announce-a-further-24-cancellations-including-into-summer-holidays/
    You are limited on the I O W.. drive for 15 mins and the road runs out...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    Double irony as the Trump loons don't believe in Darwinism. God created the Earth as it is 6,000 years ago.
    That's the thing with science. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't make it untrue.
    They'd be in the front running for a Darwin Award, alas (very woke, BTW):

    "Nominations for a Darwin Award are evaluated according to five rigorous selection criteria: death, style, veracity, capability, and self selection.20

    The candidate must be eliminated from the gene pool
    The candidate must show an astounding misapplication of common sense
    The event must be verified
    The candidate must be capable of sound judgment
    The candidate must be the cause of his or her own demise.
    The Darwin Awards are open to all ethnic groups, cultures, and socioeconomic groups."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7094

    But the Darwin Awards seem to have gone quiet of late. Probably because there are just too many people to choose from, alas.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Paging SeanT...

    Not content with destroying the livelihoods of Hauliers, Farmers, Fishermen, Actors & Musicians, Lying @BorisJohnson has now turned his attention to Authors & Publishers. The ‘post Brexit’ plan will significantly impact intellectual property rights & smother the book industry.
    🤬

    https://twitter.com/Jgs_x/status/1416281211526340610

    What’s he doing? Unwinding the stupid rules that France pushed through against British opposition?
    Issue is covered here https://twitter.com/cmlwilson/status/1413750228281352192?s=21 and https://www.saveourbooks.org.uk/about

    Following our departure from the European Union, the UK government is currently consulting on a change to the UK intellectual property framework which could have wide-ranging impacts for UK authors, publishers and the wider book sector.
    You’ve probably never heard of it, but this change is to something called the UK’s “exhaustion regime”, which sets the rules for parallel imports of IP-protected goods into the UK. The current exhaustion regime allows UK authors and publishers to price appropriately for international markets and stops the unauthorised importing of international (non-EEA) copies of books into the UK, undercutting the domestic market. This copyright protection is crucial for UK authors selling their works abroad.
    So they want trade restrictions to allow them to charge a higher price? And how does that benefit the consumer?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Said nobody....
    Launching a channel based around political comment just before the 3 month silly season of sport and holidays was a schoolboy error. If they are still going in September, then a relaunch with a reduced schedule of better quality might work, perhaps 1800 to 2300, but I doubt it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    That’s a trite response. Sure there are Trumpites but there are also plenty of underprivileged communities and minority groups who share many of the same concerns as the good folk of Leicester
    Sure, but antivaxx superstition is running into the brick wall of science whether you are a Pentocostal Redneck or Leicester Muslim.
    Not the Free Kirk of Scotland, though, contrary to some assumptions, at least in the words of their Moderator, as I found yesterday.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    I see for clarity rather than move France to red we have moved it to amber with red spots.

    Much better to holiday on the Isle of Wight. If you can get there...

    https://www.islandecho.co.uk/red-funnel-announce-a-further-24-cancellations-including-into-summer-holidays/
    You are limited on the I O W.. drive for 15 mins and the road runs out...
    With the roadworks at the Newport roundabout, 15 minutes there is quite possible.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    I see for clarity rather than move France to red we have moved it to amber with red spots.

    Much better to holiday on the Isle of Wight. If you can get there...

    https://www.islandecho.co.uk/red-funnel-announce-a-further-24-cancellations-including-into-summer-holidays/
    You are limited on the I O W.. drive for 15 mins and the road runs out...
    I think that's rather the point. They have to put the wet stuff somewhere, after all.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    That’s a trite response. Sure there are Trumpites but there are also plenty of underprivileged communities and minority groups who share many of the same concerns as the good folk of Leicester
    Sure, but antivaxx superstition is running into the brick wall of science whether you are a Pentocostal Redneck or Leicester Muslim.
    Close to 20% from BAME (including white hispanics). It’s not just trumpites
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,846

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Said nobody....
    Is it like talksport.. mind numbingly dull talk about football 24/7
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,837

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
    Annual reminder that the award is for "personalty" not "achievement", on which basis Rashford should be ahead of the field. Unfortunately, most sportspersons, being monomaniacs, are somewhat lacking in the personality department, a fact made painfully obvious in the obligatory post-match media call where they have to explain to an incredulous audience how the ball bounced badly for them. A weak excuse for a missed penalty, imho.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,846
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    I see for clarity rather than move France to red we have moved it to amber with red spots.

    Much better to holiday on the Isle of Wight. If you can get there...

    https://www.islandecho.co.uk/red-funnel-announce-a-further-24-cancellations-including-into-summer-holidays/
    You are limited on the I O W.. drive for 15 mins and the road runs out...
    I think that's rather the point. They have to put the wet stuff somewhere, after all.
    We like to drive to go see places and enjoy the views en route. Postage stamp islands are sub optimal in this respect. Off to Coniston today for a boat trip.. lovely jubbly...
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    Rashford was the great lay last year, he was big favourite for a while by people who forgot to read the smallprint about how the award was decided.

    Dina Asher Smith is a lay to me too, women’s 200m is not a blue ribbon event, for me she’d need to win the 100m (3rd favourite). Cav is worth the bet now I think as he’s the best sprinter in the field and if he wins in Paris he goes close to evens IMO. We already know cycling has a large amount of people who vote in these competitions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,823
    edited July 2021
    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
    Annual reminder that the award is for "personalty" not "achievement", on which basis Rashford should be ahead of the field. Unfortunately, most sportspersons, being monomaniacs, are somewhat lacking in the personality department, a fact made painfully obvious in the obligatory post-match media call where they have to explain to an incredulous audience how the ball bounced badly for them. A weak excuse for a missed penalty, imho.

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
    Annual reminder that the award is for "personalty" not "achievement", on which basis Rashford should be ahead of the field. Unfortunately, most sportspersons, being monomaniacs, are somewhat lacking in the personality department, a fact made painfully obvious in the obligatory post-match media call where they have to explain to an incredulous audience how the ball bounced badly for them. A weak excuse for a missed penalty, imho.
    It’s totally not about personality. That’s just a way of saying sports person of the year that is a little less clunky.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,476

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1416044424975601671

    Does anyone remember when people here were saying GB News was going to be the next big thing?

    Said nobody....
    How unpleasant!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    I predict people to not lose their sh*t until deaths are in three figures a day again. Which with the level of cases would still be encouraging.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
    Annual reminder that the award is for "personalty" not "achievement", on which basis Rashford should be ahead of the field. Unfortunately, most sportspersons, being monomaniacs, are somewhat lacking in the personality department, a fact made painfully obvious in the obligatory post-match media call where they have to explain to an incredulous audience how the ball bounced badly for them. A weak excuse for a missed penalty, imho.

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    They gave him a special award last year for his off the field work.
    Annual reminder that the award is for "personalty" not "achievement", on which basis Rashford should be ahead of the field. Unfortunately, most sportspersons, being monomaniacs, are somewhat lacking in the personality department, a fact made painfully obvious in the obligatory post-match media call where they have to explain to an incredulous audience how the ball bounced badly for them. A weak excuse for a missed penalty, imho.
    It’s totally not about personality. That’s just a way of saying sports person of the year that is a little less clunky.
    Quite. I'm amazed anyone would think differently, and it's not even unreasonable - if it were for personality the same people would get it ever year since most people don't have dynamic personalities, and as noted many sportspersons will actually be pretty lacking in that regard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
    No democracy for Scotland, if FUDHY is to be believed. If direct rule is so fabby then why not for England too?
    I have only advocated respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote and the government continuing to refuse a legal indyref2.

    Direct rule would mean scrapping Holyrood and restoring direct rule from Westminster as pre 1999.

    As it is Scotland still has its own Parliament but not England
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Good piece in the Atlantic about the consequences of poor levels of vaccination in Missouri: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-missouri-pandemic-surge/619456/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210716&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Unfortunately, although we have done well with vaccinations overall, we will have similar communities who will suffer a similar fate. The vaccination rate for young men in Dundee that I have mentioned a couple of times is a good example.

    MO Trumpites discovering the sharp end of Darwinism it seems.

    A degree of that happening in Leicester, but different community.
    That’s a trite response. Sure there are Trumpites but there are also plenty of underprivileged communities and minority groups who share many of the same concerns as the good folk of Leicester
    Sure, but antivaxx superstition is running into the brick wall of science whether you are a Pentocostal Redneck or Leicester Muslim.
    Most Pentecostals are African American in the USA, Trump voters are mainly Baptists
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    kle4 said:

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    I predict people to not lose their sh*t until deaths are in three figures a day again. Which with the level of cases would still be encouraging.
    My prediction last night for the informal PB competition was 130K by 14th August as peak.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
    Boris is not appealing to the right, centre or left, but the nostalgic. As someone who would consider themself in the centre, he is almost as far from appealing to me as you can get.
    But is that in terms of his policy offer or his presentation and tone?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Blimey it is hot out there already. :sweat_smile:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,472
    I was complaining yesterday that we weren't being proactive enough about increasing the vaccination rate, but I have to eat my words this morning as Public Health England have organised a series of pop-up vaccination clinics all over the place in an attempt to reach as many people as possible.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0716/1235445-primark-stores-offering-covid-19-vaccine-in-england/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
    No democracy for Scotland, if FUDHY is to be believed. If direct rule is so fabby then why not for England too?
    I have only advocated respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote and the government continuing to refuse a legal indyref2.

    Direct rule would mean scrapping Holyrood and restoring direct rule from Westminster as pre 1999.

    As it is Scotland still has its own Parliament but not England
    You've advocated the military invasion of Scotland! If that isn't direct rule, I don't know what is.

    *returns to tedious sorting out of office*
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Lockdown Summit is live at moment. Dave Paton is speaking on lockdown data:

    https://twitter.com/QETalks/status/1416299025972666372
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It would be interesting if, and only if, there was any new substance to a routine Guardian story.

    They might as well (but won't) headline: Tory jitters mount at only having 11%/8%/13% poll lead over hopeless Labour.

    The Guardian would be more use if it focussed on why the centre left voter base is shifting in such a way that it is hard to win elections despite having a collective majority, and what to do about it.

    There was also a 5% lead this week.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be interesting to see which (if any) footballers get nominated. I think Mason Mount has the strongest claim for a nomination, but I suspect Sterling gets the nod if it’s just one.

    Nah, only if England had won. Getting to the final is a good achievement but it's not winning.
    Harry Kane came third in 2018. At least Mason has won something with his club and set up the goal in the final.
    Footballers rarely win SPOTY do they? And there is no standout this year. Possibly Rashford for what has happened off field.
    I wasn’t suggesting that Mount would win. But part of the fun is working out who makes the shortlist. I didn’t have the guts to lay Rashford last year, but it was fairly obvious that he wouldn’t shortlisted. Same applies this season with Rashford (though the market has learnt its lesson).

    Had Sterling rather than Saka missed the fifth penalty, then he’d be the favourite because there is sporting reasons for him being nominated and it would have been a bit like Gascoigne in 1990 (a year when Nick Faldo won two majors).

    If Mount is nominated he might have a chance to make the top three. But he doesn’t play for Man Utd or Liverpool so his pool of voters is quite a bit smaller.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917
    kle4 said:

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
    Boris is not appealing to the right, centre or left, but the nostalgic. As someone who would consider themself in the centre, he is almost as far from appealing to me as you can get.
    But is that in terms of his policy offer or his presentation and tone?
    There is little in his policy offer that has any substance in at all. Take social care - his policy was he was the only one with a plan to sort it, but nothing ever happens. How I am supposed to judge if I support his plan or not? I can only assume there is no plan, it is all bluster and sunny optimism. It cannot be separated from the tone and presentation.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,920

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    If they shut schools in the autumn I won’t be held accountable for my actions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited July 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:
    An empty cabinet would be an improvement
    Whitehall would likely do a better job without Westminster.
    You think this democracy lark has run its course?
    No democracy for Scotland, if FUDHY is to be believed. If direct rule is so fabby then why not for England too?
    I have only advocated respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote and the government continuing to refuse a legal indyref2.

    Direct rule would mean scrapping Holyrood and restoring direct rule from Westminster as pre 1999.

    As it is Scotland still has its own Parliament but not England
    You've advocated the military invasion of Scotland! If that isn't direct rule, I don't know what is.

    *returns to tedious sorting out of office*
    No I am not, no need either given Sturgeon has ruled out UDI for any tougher action, the UK government merely refusing a legal indyref2 will do as under the Scotland Act 1998 Union matters are reserved to Westminster
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    kle4 said:

    Camila Tominey is not impressed:


    "one remains under the disturbing impression that even after the promised changes come in August, we will remain trapped in this unachievable quest for zero Covid, potentially forever."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/16/will-boris-ever-defy-doom-gloom-scientists/


    Nor is the Spectator.

    I wonder if Boris ever wonders how/why all the news bodies he worked for are so anti his flagship public policy?

    The thing is that The Telegraph and Spectator are generally on the right politically speaking whereas Boris is trying to appeal to the centre, so to speak.
    Boris is not appealing to the right, centre or left, but the nostalgic. As someone who would consider themself in the centre, he is almost as far from appealing to me as you can get.
    But is that in terms of his policy offer or his presentation and tone?
    There is little in his policy offer that has any substance in at all. Take social care - his policy was he was the only one with a plan to sort it, but nothing ever happens. How I am supposed to judge if I support his plan or not? I can only assume there is no plan, it is all bluster and sunny optimism. It cannot be separated from the tone and presentation.
    Ditto policy on obesity. We heard all about that when he emerged from hospital after a bad fright.

    Though something might be happening at last.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    I see Ms Hopkins is testing to the limit the adage that "there's no such thing as bad publicity":


    "Stunned that Katie Hopkins has been let in the country. Aside from the obvious travel caps and Australians still struggling to get home, this gobsmacking disrespect for quarantine rules, deliberately flouting vital health guidelines on avoiding HQ breaches https://t.co/FC34VtKHyG https://t.co/nS0ZdKkJw1"

    https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/1416247568372092934?s=19
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    Jeremy Hunt as next PM looks value at 15.

    Perhaps the succession will go Eton-Charterhouse rather than Eton-Winchester to Rishi as so many expect.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    I believe in St Zoe


  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,145
    kle4 said:

    Those predicting peak next week....

    Coronavirus cases will stay high for MONTHS after passing 100,000 in two weeks' time and a new lockdown will be needed by September,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9797637/UK-coronavirus-cases-stay-high-MONTHS-autumn-say-SAGE.html

    I predict people to not lose their sh*t until deaths are in three figures a day again. Which with the level of cases would still be encouraging.
    The serious panic begins if and when hospital admissions breach the 1,000 per day mark and keep on rising. If there's no sign of the cases peaking and starting to come back down after that then I give it about ten days before Boris wets himself and pulls the lockdown lever.

    Case rate growth is currently negative in Scotland and there are signs that the total number of hospital patients is beginning to stabilise (which is consistent with the pattern seen in the worst-affected NHS trusts in England.) If the remainder of the country follows that pattern - which I think is most likely - then hopefully the doom-mongers will be denied the umpteenth lockdown that they're after and we may finally be through the worst of this. If not, it's back to January in about four weeks' time.
This discussion has been closed.