Yes cases wrent rising like this last year until Late September. By October we were in tiers
Cases aren't resulting in significant hospitalisations for vaccinated people. Groups 1-9 are all fully vaccinated. They account for well over 95% of previous hospitalisations. If people who choose not to take the vaccine die or end up in hospital then they've made that choice and can fuck off and die.
well maybe you could have used nicer language there lol. The problem we have is with a full reopening cases will continue to accelerate upwards and then we may have a problem. I have heard that we could be at 20000 cases per day soon which would likely cause significantly more problems
Even at 100k cases per day it makes no difference of the hospitalisation is just 0.2%, that's only 200 hospitalisations per day in the vaccinated population the NHS isn't going to fall over because 200 people per day need hospital care.
There's going to be an exit wave of vaccine refusers getting COVID regardless of any delay. The UK is simply never going to eliminate COVID so we have to just deal with the fact that people who are so stupid that they turn down a free and effective vaccine will continue die of it.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
I am sure this will get brought up constantly just as it does for Keir Starmer. Boris Johnson a radical Marxist. Who would have thought?
Do let us know when you find any non-loony party on their knees like this...
There's been nothing like it since John Cleese and his silly walks.
That suggests to me that you might be a racist
Interesting snippet. If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters
Fake news.
Mine gives me the 'Black lives matter' option no problem, no need for extra spaces.
Actually it isn’t: it’s exactly what I typed in and it automatically corrected to capital letters.
Anyway, who are you to challenge my experience? Surely the behaviour of the oppressor.
No you said 'If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters'
All you have to do is the press the left sided option below the text box and it allows you to keep 'Black lives matter', no need for spaces.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
Folk have been trained for 15 months to follow case numbers. First item on the news most days. You can't just expect them to ignore them now. Most haven't seen malmesburys's graphs or read Max's expertise on vaccines. If cases don't matter now, then it is the job of the government to be bellowing that from the rooftops. Because, as long as they don't, then cases really do matter.
Yes, it's beyond ridiculous. People still don't grasp what breaking the link means – we are completely obsessed with positive tests regardless of whether people are actually sick!
Week on week for England, Tests up 19%, cases up 33% and hospital beds occupied up 10% (79). Still struggling to see how it's growing quickly enough to be a problem before vaccines get to where they're going.
Problem 1: as has already been pointed out below, Joe Public mostly doesn't follow the intricacies of the situation, they just see the case numbers starting to go up and assume that another lockdown is coming (and that this is a very good thing, because we'll all die otherwise)
Problem 2: if the scientists scream long enough and loud enough then ministers will shit their pants and fold
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
MikeL you have given the perfect reason as to why the govt will extend restrictions on the 21st. The majority arent bothered...well unless they run a pub have a wedding to go to....or dont mind a sterile lifeless atmosphere in hospitality venues where you cant just turn up on a whim....oh and its difficult to go abroad too
Folk have been trained for 15 months to follow case numbers. First item on the news most days. You can't just expect them to ignore them now. Most haven't seen malmesburys's graphs or read Max's expertise on vaccines. If cases don't matter now, then it is the job of the government to be bellowing that from the rooftops. Because, as long as they don't, then cases really do matter.
Yes, it's beyond ridiculous. People still don't grasp what breaking the link means – we are completely obsessed with positive tests regardless of whether people are actually sick!
Well. No one in authority is explaining any of this. The PM could go on TV. Hancock could do a presser. And repeatedly bang home this point. But they don't. Which indicates to me that a decision has been taken. And folk on here won't like it. But Joe Public will.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
They all released full year results months ago. The news coverage you've seen is from an AGM with zero new news on profits. Everyone was down as paying colleagues to be off shielding or stand at doors counting people in isn't cheap.
One thing that’s become more noticeable recently, as Labour, and Sir Keir in particular, have tumbled in the polls - the ‘one in a million’ shot, ‘the haymaker’ in boxing terms, has started to be given equal weighting with the data we have, the round by round schooling.
So Boris being thought of as more popular than Sir Keir on almost every metric, the Conservatives having unprecedented poll leads for a decade old party of government, the losing of safe seats, the lack of bounce from tv interviews/Confessions of a SPAD are brushed aside with “we’ll see’s”, and “you never know’s” as if they are comparable retorts
The election is not for ages. This is a perfectly logical retort to what the polls are saying now.
Otherwise all you'll get is, "Ok. So that's the polls then. Thanks for posting."
No
Because when I say the Conservatives are a great bet at EVS to get a majority, the “you never know’s” & “what if’s” come out to play
But if the GE were tomorrow, it would be humongous odds on. EVS factors in a lot if hypothetical slip ups for ‘Bozo’ and it’s still a brilliant bet
They ARE a great bet at evens. Who on earth is disputing that?
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
oh and mikel massive money printing is why gdp is only down that amount
No. Only 7 more hospitalisations, taking the number to 1,058.
The key figure is Mechanical Ventilation.
You will be getting a fair whack of people "with covid" in admissions now and you might well be seeing people being admitted on a precautionary basis who previously wouldn't have been due to having more capacity now.
However you won't be mechanically ventilating people on a whim. So if that figure starts rising with any significance then you adopt the brown trousers
Only in the vaccinated population. Again, if people who have refused the vaccine end up on ventilators does it really matter? At least from a *public* health perspective. Every single person in groups 1-9 has been eligible for a vaccine for ages. If they're too fucking stupid to get one then they carry that individual risk of being stupid. The nation can't wait for these wankers to be cured of their stupidity.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
I don't think they will be going to the barricades, but they will be pretty cross. I might get so cross, I'll, I'll write to my MP I will !
fpt about SKS being doomed because he is a remainer.
Not to say he isn't and I've no idea after the bollocks that the EU indulged in over the vaccines/Ireland, etc what the overall public view is, but do we expect every politician to fall in behind the policies of the winner of the election they've just lost?
Should Lab win in 2024 (don't laugh) will the Cons adopt all the Lab policies because the public has spoken?
Not just because he was a Remainer, but because he actively tried to overturn the referendum result when he was Labour’s Brexit Sec. Politicians who campaigned for Remain but accepted the result and voted to enable Brexit rather than refusing to have it are a different kettle of fish
If he campaigned to do that presumably that was because he believed there was a constituency which was receptive to that. Not a large enough one, it turned out, but as a political strategy it is perfectly rational, if unsuccessful to date.
Yeah he can do what he likes, but I think him doing so is a big reason he’s polling the same as Corbyn personally, and his party worse than Jez’s worst election/losing safe Labour seats in by elections
If it's his Remainerdom that's the problem how come his polling used to be quite good?
Well almost half the country did vote Remain so he was entitled to get an easy ride at the start in polls. But in the Red Wall Leave seats he is doomed. And at 65% of constituencies voted Leave, he is double doomed
Then, add in the fact he is dull as ditchwater, and it’s triple doomage!
It's the Remain point that doesn't make sense. He was polling well generally as recently as 6 months ago. Have Leavers suddenly noticed that he used to be an arch Remainer? I know they're not the most astute of units but, no, this seems unlikely.
It does make sense, because he was doomed even when he was polling better than he is now, due to 65% of constituencies voting leave, and him being the arch Remainer responsible for the ‘people’s vote’ and the loss of the Red Wall.
In a nutshell, I doubt it was Leave voters responsible for his previously good polling
He was polling quite well generally. Across all the main divides and metrics.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
They all released full year results months ago. The news coverage you've seen is from an AGM with zero new news on profits. Everyone was down as paying colleagues to be off shielding or stand at doors counting people in isn't cheap.
Apparently in Morrisons case they make a lot of money out of their cafe business, which was obviously shut.
Folk have been trained for 15 months to follow case numbers. First item on the news most days. You can't just expect them to ignore them now. Most haven't seen malmesburys's graphs or read Max's expertise on vaccines. If cases don't matter now, then it is the job of the government to be bellowing that from the rooftops. Because, as long as they don't, then cases really do matter.
Yes, it's beyond ridiculous. People still don't grasp what breaking the link means – we are completely obsessed with positive tests regardless of whether people are actually sick!
Well. No one in authority is explaining any of this. The PM could go on TV. Hancock could do a presser. And repeatedly bang home this point. But they don't. Which indicates to me that a decision has been taken. And folk on here won't like it. But Joe Public will.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
Yes cases wrent rising like this last year until Late September. By October we were in tiers
Cases aren't resulting in significant hospitalisations for vaccinated people. Groups 1-9 are all fully vaccinated. They account for well over 95% of previous hospitalisations. If people who choose not to take the vaccine die or end up in hospital then they've made that choice and can fuck off and die.
Maybe. He's certainly in a hole. But I don't see the point of trying to agitate him out right now. He has to be given a year or so to see if he can get some traction.
He's had a year. That went well.
Be fun to see what he can do with another.
Maybe he should be given two elections, like Corbyn.
Sure. But it's been a year like no other. I think any Labour leader would have struggled. The Cons have a structural majority courtesy of Brexit and on top of that you have public gratitude/familiarity courtesy of the pandemic/vaccines. The big question is will this persist. My sense is things will start to turn soon. It's not the strongest sense I've ever had though. Maybe "hope" would be a better word for it.
Being a year like no other didn't hurt Biden.
I guess the great British public have decided Boris is more like New Zealand's Ardern in leading us through the pandemic well.
They're not wrong.
Donald Trump was/is a uniquely toxic and incompetent politician. There's no read across.
I am sure this will get brought up constantly just as it does for Keir Starmer. Boris Johnson a radical Marxist. Who would have thought?
Do let us know when you find any non-loony party on their knees like this...
There's been nothing like it since John Cleese and his silly walks.
That suggests to me that you might be a racist
Interesting snippet. If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters
Fake news.
Mine gives me the 'Black lives matter' option no problem, no need for extra spaces.
Actually it isn’t: it’s exactly what I typed in and it automatically corrected to capital letters.
Anyway, who are you to challenge my experience? Surely the behaviour of the oppressor.
Hello @kinabalu. Quick question - given what Trump faced in 2020, which US President do you think would have been re-elected in those circumstances?
Anyone who didn't treat the pandemic as a joke/non event or understood science.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
My local Tescos is so quite, I go Thurday evenings normally and its probably only 30% as busy as 2 years ago
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
The problem for them was that home deliveries weren't profitable.
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
I am sure this will get brought up constantly just as it does for Keir Starmer. Boris Johnson a radical Marxist. Who would have thought?
Do let us know when you find any non-loony party on their knees like this...
There's been nothing like it since John Cleese and his silly walks.
That suggests to me that you might be a racist
Interesting snippet. If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters
Fake news.
Mine gives me the 'Black lives matter' option no problem, no need for extra spaces.
Actually it isn’t: it’s exactly what I typed in and it automatically corrected to capital letters.
Anyway, who are you to challenge my experience? Surely the behaviour of the oppressor.
No you said 'If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters'
All you have to do is the press the left sided option below the text box and it allows you to keep 'Black lives matter', no need for spaces.
Fair enough but I am just typing now Black Lives Matter with the “l” and “m” lower case and it is just autocorrected now to capital “L” and “M” hence why my post will show BLM. This is in the reply to your comment.
Believe it or not, I don’t go seeking out the right wing equivalent of microaggressions but I did find it interesting
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
I don't think they will be going to the barricades, but they will be pretty cross. I might get so cross, I'll, I'll write to my MP I will !
Maybe. He's certainly in a hole. But I don't see the point of trying to agitate him out right now. He has to be given a year or so to see if he can get some traction.
He's had a year. That went well.
Be fun to see what he can do with another.
Maybe he should be given two elections, like Corbyn.
Sure. But it's been a year like no other. I think any Labour leader would have struggled. The Cons have a structural majority courtesy of Brexit and on top of that you have public gratitude/familiarity courtesy of the pandemic/vaccines. The big question is will this persist. My sense is things will start to turn soon. It's not the strongest sense I've ever had though. Maybe "hope" would be a better word for it.
Being a year like no other didn't hurt Biden.
I guess the great British public have decided Boris is more like New Zealand's Ardern in leading us through the pandemic well.
They're not wrong.
What are your mates down under saying about it all. The friend I spoke to (in Brisbane) is super frustrated at the vaccine rollout. Like a huge prison is how he described it.
Yes cases wrent rising like this last year until Late September. By October we were in tiers
Cases aren't resulting in significant hospitalisations for vaccinated people. Groups 1-9 are all fully vaccinated. They account for well over 95% of previous hospitalisations. If people who choose not to take the vaccine die or end up in hospital then they've made that choice and can fuck off and die.
Charming.
Ah Kinabalu, supporter of the downtrodden, unprivileged, err, anti-vaxxer.
Honestly, anyone who refuses the vaccine is a complete and utter c***. The only thing that can cure them of their stupidity is death by COVID like so many of those idiotic people who denied it's existence.
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
The big problem is the cost. Debt is being incurred and money printed at a truly alarming rate. Politicians behave like this is normal.
It really, really isn't. But people of course don't really care because right now their lives are not affected that much.
When they are, and they will be soon, it will be too late.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
The problem for them was that home deliveries weren't profitable.
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
If you book a four hour slot not a one hour slot they only charge a quid if you spend over £40
fpt about SKS being doomed because he is a remainer.
Not to say he isn't and I've no idea after the bollocks that the EU indulged in over the vaccines/Ireland, etc what the overall public view is, but do we expect every politician to fall in behind the policies of the winner of the election they've just lost?
Should Lab win in 2024 (don't laugh) will the Cons adopt all the Lab policies because the public has spoken?
Not just because he was a Remainer, but because he actively tried to overturn the referendum result when he was Labour’s Brexit Sec. Politicians who campaigned for Remain but accepted the result and voted to enable Brexit rather than refusing to have it are a different kettle of fish
If he campaigned to do that presumably that was because he believed there was a constituency which was receptive to that. Not a large enough one, it turned out, but as a political strategy it is perfectly rational, if unsuccessful to date.
Yeah he can do what he likes, but I think him doing so is a big reason he’s polling the same as Corbyn personally, and his party worse than Jez’s worst election/losing safe Labour seats in by elections
If it's his Remainerdom that's the problem how come his polling used to be quite good?
Well almost half the country did vote Remain so he was entitled to get an easy ride at the start in polls. But in the Red Wall Leave seats he is doomed. And at 65% of constituencies voted Leave, he is double doomed
Then, add in the fact he is dull as ditchwater, and it’s triple doomage!
It's the Remain point that doesn't make sense. He was polling well generally as recently as 6 months ago. Have Leavers suddenly noticed that he used to be an arch Remainer? I know they're not the most astute of units but, no, this seems unlikely.
It does make sense, because he was doomed even when he was polling better than he is now, due to 65% of constituencies voting leave, and him being the arch Remainer responsible for the ‘people’s vote’ and the loss of the Red Wall.
In a nutshell, I doubt it was Leave voters responsible for his previously good polling
He was polling quite well generally. Across all the main divides and metrics.
Was he? I didn’t know that. I will obviously check and confirm/dispute
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
Well this is the nightmare scenario, isn't it? The Government discovers that a critical mass of the electorate actually enjoys being bossed about and made to wear masks, so we all have to keep doing it forever.
Folk have been trained for 15 months to follow case numbers. First item on the news most days. You can't just expect them to ignore them now. Most haven't seen malmesburys's graphs or read Max's expertise on vaccines. If cases don't matter now, then it is the job of the government to be bellowing that from the rooftops. Because, as long as they don't, then cases really do matter.
Yes, it's beyond ridiculous. People still don't grasp what breaking the link means – we are completely obsessed with positive tests regardless of whether people are actually sick!
Well. No one in authority is explaining any of this. The PM could go on TV. Hancock could do a presser. And repeatedly bang home this point. But they don't. Which indicates to me that a decision has been taken. And folk on here won't like it. But Joe Public will.
Joe Public will like further lockdowns? Really?
Not saying that. Saying the June 21 restrictions will not be lifted in full. And that will be popular for 2 reasons. Most aren't really affected by them. And cases look like they will be rising quite quickly. That cases don't matter is a point no one in government is making. (If they are, then very poorly). Most will be grateful for a non-lockdown. And keep voting Tory.
Maybe. He's certainly in a hole. But I don't see the point of trying to agitate him out right now. He has to be given a year or so to see if he can get some traction.
He's had a year. That went well.
Be fun to see what he can do with another.
Maybe he should be given two elections, like Corbyn.
Sure. But it's been a year like no other. I think any Labour leader would have struggled. The Cons have a structural majority courtesy of Brexit and on top of that you have public gratitude/familiarity courtesy of the pandemic/vaccines. The big question is will this persist. My sense is things will start to turn soon. It's not the strongest sense I've ever had though. Maybe "hope" would be a better word for it.
Being a year like no other didn't hurt Biden.
I guess the great British public have decided Boris is more like New Zealand's Ardern in leading us through the pandemic well.
They're not wrong.
Donald Trump was/is a uniquely toxic and incompetent politician. There's no read across.
I am sure this will get brought up constantly just as it does for Keir Starmer. Boris Johnson a radical Marxist. Who would have thought?
Do let us know when you find any non-loony party on their knees like this...
There's been nothing like it since John Cleese and his silly walks.
That suggests to me that you might be a racist
Interesting snippet. If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters
Fake news.
Mine gives me the 'Black lives matter' option no problem, no need for extra spaces.
Actually it isn’t: it’s exactly what I typed in and it automatically corrected to capital letters.
Anyway, who are you to challenge my experience? Surely the behaviour of the oppressor.
Hello @kinabalu. Quick question - given what Trump faced in 2020, which US President do you think would have been re-elected in those circumstances?
Anyone who didn't treat the pandemic as a joke/non event or understood science.
Yet the “it came from a lab” viewpoint he had, which everyone pilloried and stated was a prime example of his unfitness for office, now suddenly doesn’t look so stupid. Nor does his scepticism of Fauci. Nor, according to the IG of the Interior, did he order the authorities to clear protestors so he could visit church.
I’m more than happy to accept he made numerous gaffes. However, I’d be much more willing to accept if you just accepted there were many things you accused Trump of that were just plain wrong.
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
The big problem is the cost. Debt is being incurred and money printed at a truly alarming rate. Politicians behave like this is normal.
It really, really isn't. But people of course don't really care because right now their lives are not affected that much.
When they are, and they will be soon, it will be too late.
yes and this is why people have been happy with the restrictions for so long. Without furlough this would all have been over in a few weeks
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
oh and mikel massive money printing is why gdp is only down that amount
Yes, when that funding is withdrawn we will see the real economic effects, and not very pretty will it be.
509,645 vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom yesterday
Flag of England 173,443 1st doses / 248,650 2nd doses Flag of Scotland 17,846 / 30,065 Flag of Wales 6,180 / 22,111 NI 4,138 / 7,212
Yeah, but variants, innit.
We'll be starting again soon.
As Zahawi indicated to JHB this morning.
Freedom will be yours when we've all had the booster!
Believe that and you really will believe anything.
How are you coping with the pubs not reopening last month?
Oh wait, they did open despite you saying they wouldn't.
Don't nitpick.
They are not pubs as you or I know them. It is a huge faff. As is going to the theatre. Or buying a packet of fags from the newsagent.
That's true. But this little bar I like to go to - Belsize area - you wouldn't even know there was a pandemic on.
I like that there are no queues at the bar and they all know your name. Really makes a place.
I tracked down that pub in the end. I have to say @kinabalu was quite right, and I apologize for doubting him. What he didn’t mention is that they have their own dolphinarium at the back! Amazing
If Carlsberg...
Why do I suspect a "I fell in love with a dolphin then she dumped me" anecdote is incoming
Yes cases wrent rising like this last year until Late September. By October we were in tiers
Cases aren't resulting in significant hospitalisations for vaccinated people. Groups 1-9 are all fully vaccinated. They account for well over 95% of previous hospitalisations. If people who choose not to take the vaccine die or end up in hospital then they've made that choice and can fuck off and die.
Charming.
Ah Kinabalu, supporter of the downtrodden, unprivileged, err, anti-vaxxer.
Honestly, anyone who refuses the vaccine is a complete and utter c***. The only thing that can cure them of their stupidity is death by COVID like so many of those idiotic people who denied it's existence.
Hmm, seems a little extreme. I think that perhaps they should be transported for life to the colonies. Or France.
It's not as simple as that. To take one example, in theory the use of antibiotics as a growth promoter was banned in the EU in 2006, but in practice, the amount used stayed constant because it was categorised as therapeutic. Overall the EU uses antibiotics in livestock more heavily than Australia. Another example is fluoroquinolones, which are banned in Australia but allowed in the EU.
Arguments about "standards" are often just a cover for exceptionalism and protection of vested interests.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
The problem for them was that home deliveries weren't profitable.
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
I’m not sure where Francis is getting his info from but, as @maaarsh pointed out, Morrison’s reported FY numbers ages ago. The last update was last month for a trading update where they said they were on track to meet expectations.
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
The problem for them was that home deliveries weren't profitable.
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
Morrison's didn't have a great home delivery network pre-pandemic. It is our closest major supermarket, and they didn't deliver this far out. Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury's all did. Even Iceland.
If the restrictions are so onerous, why is GDP only down 3.7% compared to pre Covid?
The answer is the restrictions aren't onerous, most people are going about their lives in a perfectly normal way.
I don't personally know one single person who cares less what happens on 21 June. Nobody has even mentioned it to me.
PB, as usual, is way out of touch, full of idealistic anoraks just desperate to work themselves up into a state of hysteria.
The fact that clever businesses are finding ways to supply people with stuff at home doesn't mean that everything is rosy in the garden. Not everyone is looking forward to an eternity of mask wearing and social gatherings limited to six people, forcibly sat at a table, indoors.
To say nothing of the vast number of entertainment and hospitality businesses that can't trade profitably under social distancing, or can't trade at all. Unless the Government is prepared to prop them up with grants for the rest of time then, ultimately, they will all go bust if this bullshit drags on for long enough.
The big problem is the cost. Debt is being incurred and money printed at a truly alarming rate. Politicians behave like this is normal.
It really, really isn't. But people of course don't really care because right now their lives are not affected that much.
When they are, and they will be soon, it will be too late.
yes and this is why people have been happy with the restrictions for so long. Without furlough this would all have been over in a few weeks
I had hoped that we would not need to go bankrupt for people to see the truth. Sadly, I am not so sure we can avoid it.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
I'm seriously worried that it could set race relations back a long way, given who the non-vaxxed disproportionately are.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
The Tory MPs vote Boris out and Steve Baker becomes PM in that scenario. If Labour were in charge we'd be buggered though. There are too many Tory MPs and members who loathe the idea of lockdown for this to continue indefinitely and once it's gone it won't come back. It's a bit like EU membership.
Great to see half a million done in a day and fantastic to see 70 million passed. 200k first doses is a very good number too.
I wonder how long before 18+ are freely invited to get vaccinations in England?
The value of the vaccine currency is falling, Philip. PHE is intent on devaluing it.
New variants, you see.
Will be fascinating to see if the vaccine bounce is still in effect when we get to October and the Government folds to new demands from SAGE that we lock down for another six months because (a) most people haven't had their third jab and (b) the Omicron-6 variant is 37% more transmissible than the Mu-4 variant.
The vaccine bounce is already fading because the government's own health body is trying to undermine it. They are behaving far worse than any vaxx-ambivalent or anti-vaxxers are.
And so the government is in the extraordinary position of trumpeting a vaccine that it is at the same time starting to undermine.
What's important here, clearly, is control. What else could it be?
Control freakery, terror of fucking up, health and safety fascism and the willingness of the public to plod on with weary obedience probably all feed into it. Meanwhile, the population of Germany is getting ready to fly off on holiday (and nobody there is shitting themselves over the fact that, with that many millions of people leaving the country at once, some of them are almost bound to bring the dreaded exotic variants back with them.)
At this rate we're going to be the last country in the developed world still titting about with distancing rules and capacity limits and bloody gags everywhere.
Indeed, when we should have been the first to leave.
And do not think there won't be implications for being the last to leave,or not leaving restrictions at all. When the markets work out every other developed country has grown a pair except for Johnson's Britain, investors will start to differentiate in terms of debt and currency movements.
Then we will really see the completely bogus notion that there is some kind of 'safety' in keeping these restrictions and opening up is 'reckless'
Right now, keeping the restrictions is a gargantuan gamble.
Nah. We as a country are lapping it up.
World leading vaccine program leading to....fuck all.
I was speaking to a colleague in North America yesterday - super excited that Europe is opening up to them. I felt quite embarrassed.
But it's OK. @Andy_Cooke has explained that it is only the UK which has had the bad luck to have had the Indian variant.
Wait, you were being sarcastic earlier.
Um. I guess you were, in fact, unaware that, in Europe the Indian disapora was very much concentrated in the UK? We're talking something like 85% of those of Indian descent in Europe living in the UK. And given the family travel between here and the UK, that this is almost certainly why we did, in fact, get hit hardest first?
I'm sure we got hit hardest first by the Indian variant. But your post before sought to explain the discrepancy wholly in terms of the Indian variant which begged the question why hasn't Yurp been affected? Either they have but haven't tested, or there is some strange insularity about the Indian variant whereby despite having 15% of those of Indian descent in non-UK Europe (of what kind of number) they managed to avoid it being seeded there. Weeks if not months ago.
Did you read the post in question?
I'll attach the graph again.
If a new variant (whether Delta vs Alpha, or Alpha vs Original Flavour Covid) starts to grow while the previous variant is declining, then its growth is masked by the overall downwards trend for several iterations.
We saw exactly this early this year, whilst people were asking "why has Europe not seen the spike that the UK is having?"
They did. Although there spike was later, the UK was on the upsurge whilst the rest of Europe was still on the decline (which was gradually less and less of what it should have been as the new variant became dominant). And the question was being asked when other European countries were still in iterations 1-5 and we were somewhere like 13-16 (or even later) on that graph.
Last time it was because it originated in Kent. This time it's because we vigorously and repeatedly imported it to seed it again and again and again to get it to spark and grow sooner. Even then, it's taken a month and a half or more to get well and truly onto the upslope.
Other countries are now saying that it's inside their borders. So they're in iterations 1-4 or so.
OK so the European and US governments have it wrong and don't understand the iterations.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
Yes and there are plenty of those people around plus those who like working from home in their 4 bedroom house in the home counties. Plenty of those types around too
509,645 vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom yesterday
Flag of England 173,443 1st doses / 248,650 2nd doses Flag of Scotland 17,846 / 30,065 Flag of Wales 6,180 / 22,111 NI 4,138 / 7,212
Yeah, but variants, innit.
We'll be starting again soon.
As Zahawi indicated to JHB this morning.
Freedom will be yours when we've all had the booster!
Believe that and you really will believe anything.
How are you coping with the pubs not reopening last month?
Oh wait, they did open despite you saying they wouldn't.
Don't nitpick.
They are not pubs as you or I know them. It is a huge faff. As is going to the theatre. Or buying a packet of fags from the newsagent.
That's true. But this little bar I like to go to - Belsize area - you wouldn't even know there was a pandemic on.
I like that there are no queues at the bar and they all know your name. Really makes a place.
I tracked down that pub in the end. I have to say @kinabalu was quite right, and I apologize for doubting him. What he didn’t mention is that they have their own dolphinarium at the back! Amazing
If Carlsberg...
Why do I suspect a "I fell in love with a dolphin then she dumped me" anecdote is incoming
I was interested to see Morrisons profits were way down. The percieved wisdom was super markets were going to be raking it in with everybody stuck at home. Be interesting to see if the others have also suffered.
The problem for them was that home deliveries weren't profitable.
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
I’m not sure where Francis is getting his info from but, as @maaarsh pointed out, Morrison’s reported FY numbers ages ago. The last update was last month for a trading update where they said they were on track to meet expectations.
I was talking about the previous financial year, as Maaarsh said it was from the annual conference, where the boss was explaining why they had done so badly during the pandemic.
I just thought it was interesting as it went against the narrative that supermarkets must have been making a killing. All stuck at home, no restaurants, not even takeways at some points, the reports of us all becoming alkies and fatties, you would think that would benefit the supermarkets.
As Maaarsh pointed out, it seems none of them did very well.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
The Tory MPs vote Boris out and Steve Baker becomes PM in that scenario. If Labour were in charge we'd be buggered though. There are too many Tory MPs and members who loathe the idea of lockdown for this to continue indefinitely and once it's gone it won't come back. It's a bit like EU membership.
"Keir Starmer says Boris Johnson’s reluctance to condemn fans who boo England player’s for taking the knee has undermined the team’s chances of success at the Euros"
OK, Starmer is crap. I yield. That’s just so clumsy it’s cringe. It also smacks of terrible desperation
I happen to think we're going all the way. If we say the "hurt" started when we let that 2-0 lead slip in the QF against West Germany at the iconic 1970 Mexico WC - thank you Peter "the cat" Bonetti - then we're about to end the 51 years of hurt.
That's what I think. But what if I'm dead wrong? What if the team IS upset by all the booing gammons, and it leaks that they are, and they crash out early in total ignominy.
Then Starmer is going to look pretty damn smart. Captain Foresight. And a TRUE patriot as opposed to the cheap and chippy type.
I’d put more money on a Labour victory at the next GE than England winning the Euros.
I would put more money on alien landings than either
fpt about SKS being doomed because he is a remainer.
Not to say he isn't and I've no idea after the bollocks that the EU indulged in over the vaccines/Ireland, etc what the overall public view is, but do we expect every politician to fall in behind the policies of the winner of the election they've just lost?
Should Lab win in 2024 (don't laugh) will the Cons adopt all the Lab policies because the public has spoken?
Not just because he was a Remainer, but because he actively tried to overturn the referendum result when he was Labour’s Brexit Sec. Politicians who campaigned for Remain but accepted the result and voted to enable Brexit rather than refusing to have it are a different kettle of fish
If he campaigned to do that presumably that was because he believed there was a constituency which was receptive to that. Not a large enough one, it turned out, but as a political strategy it is perfectly rational, if unsuccessful to date.
Yeah he can do what he likes, but I think him doing so is a big reason he’s polling the same as Corbyn personally, and his party worse than Jez’s worst election/losing safe Labour seats in by elections
If it's his Remainerdom that's the problem how come his polling used to be quite good?
Well almost half the country did vote Remain so he was entitled to get an easy ride at the start in polls. But in the Red Wall Leave seats he is doomed. And at 65% of constituencies voted Leave, he is double doomed
Then, add in the fact he is dull as ditchwater, and it’s triple doomage!
It's the Remain point that doesn't make sense. He was polling well generally as recently as 6 months ago. Have Leavers suddenly noticed that he used to be an arch Remainer? I know they're not the most astute of units but, no, this seems unlikely.
It does make sense, because he was doomed even when he was polling better than he is now, due to 65% of constituencies voting leave, and him being the arch Remainer responsible for the ‘people’s vote’ and the loss of the Red Wall.
In a nutshell, I doubt it was Leave voters responsible for his previously good polling
He was polling quite well generally. Across all the main divides and metrics.
Was he? I didn’t know that. I will obviously check and confirm/dispute
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
The Tory MPs vote Boris out and Steve Baker becomes PM in that scenario. If Labour were in charge we'd be buggered though. There are too many Tory MPs and members who loathe the idea of lockdown for this to continue indefinitely and once it's gone it won't come back. It's a bit like EU membership.
Why would the Tories vote out Boris when their polling lead is so huge.
You are damn straight about Lab though. Longer and harder for them.
But this is what happens when we willingly give up our freedoms. The govt is loathe to take them away.
No. Only 7 more hospitalisations, taking the number to 1,058.
Even that doesn't matter so much, it's how many of the people ending up in hospital have refused the vaccine. By all accounts it is the vast majority as only 63 fully vaccinated people who have had the delta variant have ended up in hospital which is a tiny proportion of the total from the last three weeks.
It would be immoral to continue any lockdown measures on the basis of vaccine refusers being at risk. They've made that choice and must now live by it or go and get the vaccine.
We've got full vaccine protection to less than half the population at the moment. [edited]
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
No they aren't. Lockdown was sold on the basis of saving the NHS. It has clearly been saved. If there's now a bait and switch people won't have it. He's simply incorrect.
If enough people are still so terrified of Covid coming back and believe that it will, and/or enjoy lockdowns, then they will do whatever the Government instructs them to do. And we shall all have to suffer the consequences.
The Tory MPs vote Boris out and Steve Baker becomes PM in that scenario. If Labour were in charge we'd be buggered though. There are too many Tory MPs and members who loathe the idea of lockdown for this to continue indefinitely and once it's gone it won't come back. It's a bit like EU membership.
no because if lockdowns are popular with the conservative core vote and Boris rides high in the polls there is no way the MPS could get rid of Boris
63 hospitalisations from 32k cases of Delta. That's a rate of just 0.2% so far, we would normally expect around 5% of cases to present severe enough symptoms to result in hospitalisation. There's also no word on how many of these cases were precautionary and how many resulted in more than one night in hospital.
Given how the variant data lags and needs tracing back to specific people with follow ups I would be surprised if that 0.2% hospitalisation rate gets any higher, in fact I'd expect it to go down as cumulative factors start coming into play with more people getting their first and second doses.
Look at it this way, where we'd previously have expected 1000 people to be hospitalised, we're now only seeing 38, in addition other reports from the NHs chiefs have said that case severity is serverely down and far fewer people turning up hospital are requiring any significant interventions and are being sent home on the same day.
We're genuinely in the clear and there is simply no reason to delay June 21st. There is no conceivable route to an NHS crash and that is the reason for having any NPIs. Boris needs to tell all of the scientists to get back in their corner.
I think June 21st should go ahead. Lift all legal restrictions and counsel (guidance only) caution based on personal risk assessment.
But -
The argument that because lockdown was imposed to stop the NHS crashing it follows simply from this that every single restriction should go now because the NHS will NOT crash - this argument I do not find to be a slam dunk.
The fact is we're not talking about a single event to go from 'lock' to 'unlock'. Lockdown has already to a significant extent been reversed. What's left are the final steps of a gradual process.
Ok, so the NHS won't fall over whatever we do because of the vaccines. That's great. But what if an explosion in cases led to sufficient stress on the service (in places) to significantly hamper the efforts to start tackling the big backlog they have? People would suffer. Maybe a lot of people. And long Covid. Ditto. And of course the people who would still die of Covid.
No doubt it'll be a tour of Camel Valley vineyard tomorrow followed by dinner at Rick Stein's then a leisurely walk around the Lost Gardens of Heligan on Sunday.
It's not as simple as that. To take one example, in theory the use of antibiotics as a growth promoter was banned in the EU in 2006, but in practice, the amount used stayed constant because it was categorised as therapeutic. Overall the EU uses antibiotics in livestock more heavily than Australia. Another example is fluoroquinolones, which are banned in Australia but allowed in the EU.
Arguments about "standards" are often just a cover for exceptionalism and protection of vested interests.
It is as simple as that. Sure, standards are used as such, but they also reflect what people decide they want. The problem comes when producers (in this case farmers) are required to adhere to certain standards are then undercut by other places (Australia) that can produce at lower cost because they do not need to. It is also environmentally monstrous that a product that can be grown or produced viably here is undercut by a product that has millions of shipping miles to get it here
fpt about SKS being doomed because he is a remainer.
Not to say he isn't and I've no idea after the bollocks that the EU indulged in over the vaccines/Ireland, etc what the overall public view is, but do we expect every politician to fall in behind the policies of the winner of the election they've just lost?
Should Lab win in 2024 (don't laugh) will the Cons adopt all the Lab policies because the public has spoken?
Not just because he was a Remainer, but because he actively tried to overturn the referendum result when he was Labour’s Brexit Sec. Politicians who campaigned for Remain but accepted the result and voted to enable Brexit rather than refusing to have it are a different kettle of fish
If he campaigned to do that presumably that was because he believed there was a constituency which was receptive to that. Not a large enough one, it turned out, but as a political strategy it is perfectly rational, if unsuccessful to date.
Yeah he can do what he likes, but I think him doing so is a big reason he’s polling the same as Corbyn personally, and his party worse than Jez’s worst election/losing safe Labour seats in by elections
If it's his Remainerdom that's the problem how come his polling used to be quite good?
Well almost half the country did vote Remain so he was entitled to get an easy ride at the start in polls. But in the Red Wall Leave seats he is doomed. And at 65% of constituencies voted Leave, he is double doomed
Then, add in the fact he is dull as ditchwater, and it’s triple doomage!
It's the Remain point that doesn't make sense. He was polling well generally as recently as 6 months ago. Have Leavers suddenly noticed that he used to be an arch Remainer? I know they're not the most astute of units but, no, this seems unlikely.
It does make sense, because he was doomed even when he was polling better than he is now, due to 65% of constituencies voting leave, and him being the arch Remainer responsible for the ‘people’s vote’ and the loss of the Red Wall.
In a nutshell, I doubt it was Leave voters responsible for his previously good polling
He was polling quite well generally. Across all the main divides and metrics.
Was he? I didn’t know that. I will obviously check and confirm/dispute
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
Well this is the nightmare scenario, isn't it? The Government discovers that a critical mass of the electorate actually enjoys being bossed about and made to wear masks, so we all have to keep doing it forever.
No, people don't enjoy being bossed about.
The trouble with posters on here is everybody is desperate to take the most extreme position at both ends of the spectrum.
What most people in the real world actually think is that the restrictions aren't very onerous and they are worth having to mitigate the risk in case things spiral out of control again.
And that it would be sensible to wait until a few more people are vaccinated. I would have thought most would think say 65% to 70% fully vaccinated would sound about right whereas today we are only at 55% (and then it's two weeks to take effect).
Moderate, pragmatic, reasonable.
Whereas on here we've got people who seriously think the reason for the restrictions is because it gives a few people in power a kick that they think they are controlling people.
And because a few scientists enjoy being on the TV.
No doubt it'll be a tour of Camel Valley vineyard tomorrow followed by dinner at Rick Stein's then a leisurely walk around the Lost Gardens of Heligan on Sunday.
BREAKING: The British Medical Association is calling for a delay to the easing of all remaining lockdown restrictions in England due to case numbers ‘rising rapidly’.
Maybe. He's certainly in a hole. But I don't see the point of trying to agitate him out right now. He has to be given a year or so to see if he can get some traction.
He's had a year. That went well.
Be fun to see what he can do with another.
Maybe he should be given two elections, like Corbyn.
Sure. But it's been a year like no other. I think any Labour leader would have struggled. The Cons have a structural majority courtesy of Brexit and on top of that you have public gratitude/familiarity courtesy of the pandemic/vaccines. The big question is will this persist. My sense is things will start to turn soon. It's not the strongest sense I've ever had though. Maybe "hope" would be a better word for it.
Being a year like no other didn't hurt Biden.
I guess the great British public have decided Boris is more like New Zealand's Ardern in leading us through the pandemic well.
They're not wrong.
Donald Trump was/is a uniquely toxic and incompetent politician. There's no read across.
I am sure this will get brought up constantly just as it does for Keir Starmer. Boris Johnson a radical Marxist. Who would have thought?
Do let us know when you find any non-loony party on their knees like this...
There's been nothing like it since John Cleese and his silly walks.
That suggests to me that you might be a racist
Interesting snippet. If I type Black lives matter, I have to leave an extra space between “lives” and “matter” to keep both lower case, otherwise iOS autocorrects it to Black Lives Matter and won’t let me change the capital letters
Fake news.
Mine gives me the 'Black lives matter' option no problem, no need for extra spaces.
Actually it isn’t: it’s exactly what I typed in and it automatically corrected to capital letters.
Anyway, who are you to challenge my experience? Surely the behaviour of the oppressor.
Hello @kinabalu. Quick question - given what Trump faced in 2020, which US President do you think would have been re-elected in those circumstances?
Anybody bar him. Not being flip, that's my honest opinion. And all HE had to do to win was stop being him. But he couldn't quite manage that.
It's not as simple as that. To take one example, in theory the use of antibiotics as a growth promoter was banned in the EU in 2006, but in practice, the amount used stayed constant because it was categorised as therapeutic. Overall the EU uses antibiotics in livestock more heavily than Australia. Another example is fluoroquinolones, which are banned in Australia but allowed in the EU.
Arguments about "standards" are often just a cover for exceptionalism and protection of vested interests.
That's undoubtedly true. British farmers' complaints also reflect the fact they can't compete on costs because of the sheer scale of Australian farms (You create a lot of space for sheep and cattle if you wipe out the people who used to occupy your farmland. Scottish landowners tried something similar of course but the land in the Highlands is too marginal). But on animal welfare the Australian farming industry is still pretty grim.
No doubt it'll be a tour of Camel Valley vineyard tomorrow followed by dinner at Rick Stein's then a leisurely walk around the Lost Gardens of Heligan on Sunday.
Silliness aside, a dinner at the Eden Project is a rather clever choice - dramatic setting, weather proof and yet feels like the open air.
No. Only 7 more hospitalisations, taking the number to 1,058.
Even that doesn't matter so much, it's how many of the people ending up in hospital have refused the vaccine. By all accounts it is the vast majority as only 63 fully vaccinated people who have had the delta variant have ended up in hospital which is a tiny proportion of the total from the last three weeks.
It would be immoral to continue any lockdown measures on the basis of vaccine refusers being at risk. They've made that choice and must now live by it or go and get the vaccine.
We've got full vaccine protection to less than half the population at the moment. Why is it okay to have restrictions to protect old people but not young?
Because young people are already protected by virtue of being young. Groups 1-9 account for 90% of hospitalisations and 95% of deaths.
Additionally we aren't stopping the vaccine programme it will keep going after June 21st and it's not as if suddenly after June 21st all 8m people waiting for their first dose will get infected.
BREAKING: The British Medical Association is calling for a delay to the easing of all remaining lockdown restrictions in England due to case numbers ‘rising rapidly’.
Great to see half a million done in a day and fantastic to see 70 million passed. 200k first doses is a very good number too.
I wonder how long before 18+ are freely invited to get vaccinations in England?
The value of the vaccine currency is falling, Philip. PHE is intent on devaluing it.
New variants, you see.
Will be fascinating to see if the vaccine bounce is still in effect when we get to October and the Government folds to new demands from SAGE that we lock down for another six months because (a) most people haven't had their third jab and (b) the Omicron-6 variant is 37% more transmissible than the Mu-4 variant.
The vaccine bounce is already fading because the government's own health body is trying to undermine it. They are behaving far worse than any vaxx-ambivalent or anti-vaxxers are.
And so the government is in the extraordinary position of trumpeting a vaccine that it is at the same time starting to undermine.
What's important here, clearly, is control. What else could it be?
Control freakery, terror of fucking up, health and safety fascism and the willingness of the public to plod on with weary obedience probably all feed into it. Meanwhile, the population of Germany is getting ready to fly off on holiday (and nobody there is shitting themselves over the fact that, with that many millions of people leaving the country at once, some of them are almost bound to bring the dreaded exotic variants back with them.)
At this rate we're going to be the last country in the developed world still titting about with distancing rules and capacity limits and bloody gags everywhere.
Indeed, when we should have been the first to leave.
And do not think there won't be implications for being the last to leave,or not leaving restrictions at all. When the markets work out every other developed country has grown a pair except for Johnson's Britain, investors will start to differentiate in terms of debt and currency movements.
Then we will really see the completely bogus notion that there is some kind of 'safety' in keeping these restrictions and opening up is 'reckless'
Right now, keeping the restrictions is a gargantuan gamble.
Nah. We as a country are lapping it up.
World leading vaccine program leading to....fuck all.
I was speaking to a colleague in North America yesterday - super excited that Europe is opening up to them. I felt quite embarrassed.
But it's OK. @Andy_Cooke has explained that it is only the UK which has had the bad luck to have had the Indian variant.
Wait, you were being sarcastic earlier.
Um. I guess you were, in fact, unaware that, in Europe the Indian disapora was very much concentrated in the UK? We're talking something like 85% of those of Indian descent in Europe living in the UK. And given the family travel between here and the UK, that this is almost certainly why we did, in fact, get hit hardest first?
I'm sure we got hit hardest first by the Indian variant. But your post before sought to explain the discrepancy wholly in terms of the Indian variant which begged the question why hasn't Yurp been affected? Either they have but haven't tested, or there is some strange insularity about the Indian variant whereby despite having 15% of those of Indian descent in non-UK Europe (of what kind of number) they managed to avoid it being seeded there. Weeks if not months ago.
Did you read the post in question?
I'll attach the graph again.
If a new variant (whether Delta vs Alpha, or Alpha vs Original Flavour Covid) starts to grow while the previous variant is declining, then its growth is masked by the overall downwards trend for several iterations.
We saw exactly this early this year, whilst people were asking "why has Europe not seen the spike that the UK is having?"
They did. Although there spike was later, the UK was on the upsurge whilst the rest of Europe was still on the decline (which was gradually less and less of what it should have been as the new variant became dominant). And the question was being asked when other European countries were still in iterations 1-5 and we were somewhere like 13-16 (or even later) on that graph.
Last time it was because it originated in Kent. This time it's because we vigorously and repeatedly imported it to seed it again and again and again to get it to spark and grow sooner. Even then, it's taken a month and a half or more to get well and truly onto the upslope.
Other countries are now saying that it's inside their borders. So they're in iterations 1-4 or so.
OK so the European and US governments have it wrong and don't understand the iterations.
Luckily we do.
Nope, they are at the early stages. They are hoping that by the time it gets... interesting... increased vaccination will save them.
"Keir Starmer says Boris Johnson’s reluctance to condemn fans who boo England player’s for taking the knee has undermined the team’s chances of success at the Euros"
OK, Starmer is crap. I yield. That’s just so clumsy it’s cringe. It also smacks of terrible desperation
I happen to think we're going all the way. If we say the "hurt" started when we let that 2-0 lead slip in the QF against West Germany at the iconic 1970 Mexico WC - thank you Peter "the cat" Bonetti - then we're about to end the 51 years of hurt.
That's what I think. But what if I'm dead wrong? What if the team IS upset by all the booing gammons, and it leaks that they are, and they crash out early in total ignominy.
Then Starmer is going to look pretty damn smart. Captain Foresight. And a TRUE patriot as opposed to the cheap and chippy type.
I’d put more money on a Labour victory at the next GE than England winning the Euros.
Same odds at the moment, those 2 things. Food for thought.
People travelling to Guernsey from the UK who have not had two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine must be tested and self-isolate from 1 July.
The move applies to people coming from the Common Travel Area which includes the UK, Jersey, Isle of Man and Republic of Ireland.
The start of a traffic light system has been delayed following the spread of the Delta variant in the UK.
It means the current 4-tier system of categories remains in place.
But those coming from the Common Travel Area who have had their second dose more than two weeks before arriving will be able to avoid the testing and self-isolation.
Letters will start going out in July confirming an individual's vaccination status - ongoing they will be issued two weeks after they've received the second jab
63 hospitalisations from 32k cases of Delta. That's a rate of just 0.2% so far, we would normally expect around 5% of cases to present severe enough symptoms to result in hospitalisation. There's also no word on how many of these cases were precautionary and how many resulted in more than one night in hospital.
Given how the variant data lags and needs tracing back to specific people with follow ups I would be surprised if that 0.2% hospitalisation rate gets any higher, in fact I'd expect it to go down as cumulative factors start coming into play with more people getting their first and second doses.
Look at it this way, where we'd previously have expected 1000 people to be hospitalised, we're now only seeing 38, in addition other reports from the NHs chiefs have said that case severity is serverely down and far fewer people turning up hospital are requiring any significant interventions and are being sent home on the same day.
We're genuinely in the clear and there is simply no reason to delay June 21st. There is no conceivable route to an NHS crash and that is the reason for having any NPIs. Boris needs to tell all of the scientists to get back in their corner.
I think June 21st should go ahead. Lift all legal restrictions and counsel (guidance only) caution based on personal risk assessment.
But -
The argument that because lockdown was imposed to stop the NHS crashing it follows simply from this that every single restriction should go now because the NHS will NOT crash - this argument I do not find to be a slam dunk.
The fact is we're not talking about a single event to go from 'lock' to 'unlock'. Lockdown has already to a significant extent been reversed. What's left are the final steps of a gradual process.
Ok, so the NHS won't fall over whatever we do because of the vaccines. That's great. But what if an explosion in cases led to sufficient stress on the service (in places) to significantly hamper the efforts to start tackling the big backlog they have? People would suffer. Maybe a lot of people. And long Covid. Ditto. And of course the people who would still die of Covid.
So I don't think it's a total no-brainer.
Should also add this. Many businesses are struggling to make ends meet under these restrictions. And quite a few short of staff. How short of staff will they be with 50k a day getting Covid? Even most of the youngest and fittest will be calling in sick for a day or two. For some it will be longer.
This is why the lower vaccination uptake in certain areas of the country matters. The govt could sell not removing restrictions or even imposing them as to protect the unvaccinated
People will fucking riot if the government say that the country will continue to live under restrictions because people have refused the vaccine. It's a non-starter.
MikeL thinks most people are happy with the restrictions. So why would they riot
Well this is the nightmare scenario, isn't it? The Government discovers that a critical mass of the electorate actually enjoys being bossed about and made to wear masks, so we all have to keep doing it forever.
No, people don't enjoy being bossed about.
The trouble with posters on here is everybody is desperate to take the most extreme position at both ends of the spectrum.
What most people in the real world actually think is that the restrictions aren't very onerous and they are worth having to mitigate the risk in case things spiral out of control again.
And that it would be sensible to wait until a few more people are vaccinated. I would have thought most would think say 65% to 70% fully vaccinated would sound about right whereas today we are only at 55% (and then it's two weeks to take effect).
Moderate, pragmatic, reasonable.
Whereas on here we've got people who seriously think the reason for the restrictions is because it gives a few people in power a kick that they think they are controlling people.
And because a few scientists enjoy being on the TV.
It's idiotic, conspiracy theory stuff.
these moderate pragmatic reasonable people also think 7% of the population has died from covid. That would be 5 million people!!! So yes they are sensible pragmatic and reasonable
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Answering my own questions: yes we do. In England it's 884 down from 906 yesterday, but up from 805 a week ago. So it's currently trending at about a 10% weekly rise.
Which I would suggest is not sufficiently alarming to prevent the relaxation of restrictions.
HOWEVER, the government really should move to a mixed dosing regime and get those 6.1m unused AZ doses into peoples' arms. Allow walk ins for the AZ jab - the suppression of transmission benefits to having an additional 5m people with at least one jab are absolutely enormous.
Yes cases wrent rising like this last year until Late September. By October we were in tiers
Cases aren't resulting in significant hospitalisations for vaccinated people. Groups 1-9 are all fully vaccinated. They account for well over 95% of previous hospitalisations. If people who choose not to take the vaccine die or end up in hospital then they've made that choice and can fuck off and die.
Charming.
Ah Kinabalu, supporter of the downtrodden, unprivileged, err, anti-vaxxer.
Honestly, anyone who refuses the vaccine is a complete and utter c***. The only thing that can cure them of their stupidity is death by COVID like so many of those idiotic people who denied it's existence.
Have you been drinking Max?
It’s not cancel 21st or go ahead with 21st, vast amount of people in this country will support a sensible staged approach to further easing based on extrapolation of current data.
The vaccines do work very well against the new dominant variant, the staged lifting direction of travel is fine with most people.
Chill. Enjoy the weekends weather as we may not see it for a few months.
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Yes, a small increase. We also have the new data point of just 63 hospitalisations from 32k delta cases in fully vaccinated people. I calculate that as an efficacy rate of at least 96%, probably closer to 98-99% when case age profile is taken into account.
People travelling to Guernsey from the UK who have not had two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine must be tested and self-isolate from 1 July.
The move applies to people coming from the Common Travel Area which includes the UK, Jersey, Isle of Man and Republic of Ireland.
The start of a traffic light system has been delayed following the spread of the Delta variant in the UK.
It means the current 4-tier system of categories remains in place.
But those coming from the Common Travel Area who have had their second dose more than two weeks before arriving will be able to avoid the testing and self-isolation.
Letters will start going out in July confirming an individual's vaccination status - ongoing they will be issued two weeks after they've received the second jab
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Answering my own questions: yes we do. In England it's 884 down from 906 yesterday, but up from 805 a week ago. So it's currently trending at about a 10% weekly rise.
Which I would suggest is not sufficiently alarming to prevent the relaxation of restrictions.
HOWEVER, the government really should move to a mixed dosing regime and get those 6.1m unused AZ doses into peoples' arms. Allow walk ins for the AZ jab - the suppression of transmission benefits to having an additional 5m people with at least one jab are absolutely enormous.
I wonder how much all the G7 stuff is stopping any decisions like possibly rolling out AZN?
BREAKING: The British Medical Association is calling for a delay to the easing of all remaining lockdown restrictions in England due to case numbers ‘rising rapidly’.
fpt about SKS being doomed because he is a remainer.
Not to say he isn't and I've no idea after the bollocks that the EU indulged in over the vaccines/Ireland, etc what the overall public view is, but do we expect every politician to fall in behind the policies of the winner of the election they've just lost?
Should Lab win in 2024 (don't laugh) will the Cons adopt all the Lab policies because the public has spoken?
Not just because he was a Remainer, but because he actively tried to overturn the referendum result when he was Labour’s Brexit Sec. Politicians who campaigned for Remain but accepted the result and voted to enable Brexit rather than refusing to have it are a different kettle of fish
If he campaigned to do that presumably that was because he believed there was a constituency which was receptive to that. Not a large enough one, it turned out, but as a political strategy it is perfectly rational, if unsuccessful to date.
Yeah he can do what he likes, but I think him doing so is a big reason he’s polling the same as Corbyn personally, and his party worse than Jez’s worst election/losing safe Labour seats in by elections
If it's his Remainerdom that's the problem how come his polling used to be quite good?
Well almost half the country did vote Remain so he was entitled to get an easy ride at the start in polls. But in the Red Wall Leave seats he is doomed. And at 65% of constituencies voted Leave, he is double doomed
Then, add in the fact he is dull as ditchwater, and it’s triple doomage!
It's the Remain point that doesn't make sense. He was polling well generally as recently as 6 months ago. Have Leavers suddenly noticed that he used to be an arch Remainer? I know they're not the most astute of units but, no, this seems unlikely.
It does make sense, because he was doomed even when he was polling better than he is now, due to 65% of constituencies voting leave, and him being the arch Remainer responsible for the ‘people’s vote’ and the loss of the Red Wall.
In a nutshell, I doubt it was Leave voters responsible for his previously good polling
He was polling quite well generally. Across all the main divides and metrics.
Was he? I didn’t know that. I will obviously check and confirm/dispute
In his first Opinium poll he scored
51-4 with Remainers 22-13 with Leavers
Latest Opinium
36-35 with Remainers 17-53 with Leavers
Losing popularity pretty evenly really
You are so obsessed with Brexit. Move on
Wishing it away isn’t going to stop it being a massive deal for a long while yet. So, sorry, I won’t leave it, you’ll have to put up with or ignore my posts about it
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Answering my own questions: yes we do. In England it's 884 down from 906 yesterday, but up from 805 a week ago. So it's currently trending at about a 10% weekly rise.
Which I would suggest is not sufficiently alarming to prevent the relaxation of restrictions.
HOWEVER, the government really should move to a mixed dosing regime and get those 6.1m unused AZ doses into peoples' arms. Allow walk ins for the AZ jab - the suppression of transmission benefits to having an additional 5m people with at least one jab are absolutely enormous.
I wonder how much all the G7 stuff is stopping any decisions like possibly rolling out AZN?
Is is too much to ask of our politicians that they are capable of multitasking?
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Answering my own questions: yes we do. In England it's 884 down from 906 yesterday, but up from 805 a week ago. So it's currently trending at about a 10% weekly rise.
Which I would suggest is not sufficiently alarming to prevent the relaxation of restrictions.
HOWEVER, the government really should move to a mixed dosing regime and get those 6.1m unused AZ doses into peoples' arms. Allow walk ins for the AZ jab - the suppression of transmission benefits to having an additional 5m people with at least one jab are absolutely enormous.
The virus will simply run out of unvaccinated people to hospitalise at some point very soon. This is the exit wave, Israel had it too as the virus finds those unvaccinated people.
BREAKING: The British Medical Association is calling for a delay to the easing of all remaining lockdown restrictions in England due to case numbers ‘rising rapidly’.
No doubt it'll be a tour of Camel Valley vineyard tomorrow followed by dinner at Rick Stein's then a leisurely walk around the Lost Gardens of Heligan on Sunday.
Silliness aside, a dinner at the Eden Project is a rather clever choice - dramatic setting, weather proof and yet feels like the open air.
Eden project was another eu funded white elephant that made a lot of people very rich without doing much to help the area it was sited in
Morning. Do we have "in hospital" Covid numbers for today yet?
Oliver Johnson @BristOliver Final piece of healthcare data before the decision on 21st June dropped (no weekend data), and it's not good news, I think. 158 admissions today. The graph is very much doing its thing.
Christ thats a terrible decision by the umpire....you could drive a Boris bus through the gap between the wickets and where it was going to pass by. It was swing so far left, even Jezza thought it had gone too far.
If Germans have a reputation abroad for lecturing others, within Germany that stereotype is often applied to members of the bar, charitably referred to as Besserwisser (know-it-alls), less charitably as Klugscheisser (shitters of wisdom)
Comments
There's going to be an exit wave of vaccine refusers getting COVID regardless of any delay. The UK is simply never going to eliminate COVID so we have to just deal with the fact that people who are so stupid that they turn down a free and effective vaccine will continue die of it.
Well exactly, I agree. But there remains an obsession with positive tests.
All you have to do is the press the left sided option below the text box and it allows you to keep 'Black lives matter', no need for spaces.
(there is always a first....)
Problem 2: if the scientists scream long enough and loud enough then ministers will shit their pants and fold
But they don't. Which indicates to me that a decision has been taken. And folk on here won't like it.
But Joe Public will.
ETA less than you'd see in a normal January but this year is not normal.
Biden will attend a reception tonight with Queen Elizabeth, as well as Charles, Camilla, William and Kate, at a botanical garden in Cornwall.
The queen will leave before the G7 leaders sit for dinner at the Eden Project, which has some dramatic indoor and outdoor gardens.
https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1403364747471372291?s=20
Up to this May, Sainsbury's didn't charge us for home delivery if we spent over £100.
Now they are all charging £4 to £6 on home deliveries, no matter how much you spend.
Believe it or not, I don’t go seeking out the right wing equivalent of microaggressions but I did find it interesting
Honestly, anyone who refuses the vaccine is a complete and utter c***. The only thing that can cure them of their stupidity is death by COVID like so many of those idiotic people who denied it's existence.
It really, really isn't. But people of course don't really care because right now their lives are not affected that much.
When they are, and they will be soon, it will be too late.
Most aren't really affected by them. And cases look like they will be rising quite quickly.
That cases don't matter is a point no one in government is making. (If they are, then very poorly).
Most will be grateful for a non-lockdown. And keep voting Tory.
I’m more than happy to accept he made numerous gaffes. However, I’d be much more willing to accept if you just accepted there were many things you accused Trump of that were just plain wrong.
Arguments about "standards" are often just a cover for exceptionalism and protection of vested interests.
It is our closest major supermarket, and they didn't deliver this far out.
Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury's all did. Even Iceland.
Luckily we do.
What sector do you work in? You're obviously not retired (and/or with a nice house, garden, etc). What's happening in your work?
I just thought it was interesting as it went against the narrative that supermarkets must have been making a killing. All stuck at home, no restaurants, not even takeways at some points, the reports of us all becoming alkies and fatties, you would think that would benefit the supermarkets.
As Maaarsh pointed out, it seems none of them did very well.
How does a man wear a shirt for any length of time when it's like this?
51-4 with Remainers
22-13 with Leavers
Latest Opinium
36-35 with Remainers
17-53 with Leavers
Losing popularity pretty evenly really
You are damn straight about Lab though. Longer and harder for them.
But this is what happens when we willingly give up our freedoms. The govt is loathe to take them away.
[edited]
But -
The argument that because lockdown was imposed to stop the NHS crashing it follows simply from this that every single restriction should go now because the NHS will NOT crash - this argument I do not find to be a slam dunk.
The fact is we're not talking about a single event to go from 'lock' to 'unlock'. Lockdown has already to a significant extent been reversed. What's left are the final steps of a gradual process.
Ok, so the NHS won't fall over whatever we do because of the vaccines. That's great. But what if an explosion in cases led to sufficient stress on the service (in places) to significantly hamper the efforts to start tackling the big backlog they have? People would suffer. Maybe a lot of people. And long Covid. Ditto. And of course the people who would still die of Covid.
So I don't think it's a total no-brainer.
The trouble with posters on here is everybody is desperate to take the most extreme position at both ends of the spectrum.
What most people in the real world actually think is that the restrictions aren't very onerous and they are worth having to mitigate the risk in case things spiral out of control again.
And that it would be sensible to wait until a few more people are vaccinated. I would have thought most would think say 65% to 70% fully vaccinated would sound about right whereas today we are only at 55% (and then it's two weeks to take effect).
Moderate, pragmatic, reasonable.
Whereas on here we've got people who seriously think the reason for the restrictions is because it gives a few people in power a kick that they think they are controlling people.
And because a few scientists enjoy being on the TV.
It's idiotic, conspiracy theory stuff.
https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1403329136144400387?s=20
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1403375130630295554?s=20
Additionally we aren't stopping the vaccine programme it will keep going after June 21st and it's not as if suddenly after June 21st all 8m people waiting for their first dose will get infected.
The move applies to people coming from the Common Travel Area which includes the UK, Jersey, Isle of Man and Republic of Ireland.
The start of a traffic light system has been delayed following the spread of the Delta variant in the UK.
It means the current 4-tier system of categories remains in place.
But those coming from the Common Travel Area who have had their second dose more than two weeks before arriving will be able to avoid the testing and self-isolation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-57445813
Letters will start going out in July confirming an individual's vaccination status - ongoing they will be issued two weeks after they've received the second jab
How short of staff will they be with 50k a day getting Covid?
Even most of the youngest and fittest will be calling in sick for a day or two. For some it will be longer.
Which I would suggest is not sufficiently alarming to prevent the relaxation of restrictions.
HOWEVER, the government really should move to a mixed dosing regime and get those 6.1m unused AZ doses into peoples' arms. Allow walk ins for the AZ jab - the suppression of transmission benefits to having an additional 5m people with at least one jab are absolutely enormous.
It’s not cancel 21st or go ahead with 21st, vast amount of people in this country will support a sensible staged approach to further easing based on extrapolation of current data.
The vaccines do work very well against the new dominant variant, the staged lifting direction of travel is fine with most people.
Chill. Enjoy the weekends weather as we may not see it for a few months.
@BristOliver
Final piece of healthcare data before the decision on 21st June dropped (no weekend data), and it's not good news, I think. 158 admissions today. The graph is very much doing its thing.
https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1403364797123543042
https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-declares-war-on-german-arrogance-eu-court-of-justice-karlsruhe/
If Germans have a reputation abroad for lecturing others, within Germany that stereotype is often applied to members of the bar, charitably referred to as Besserwisser (know-it-alls), less charitably as Klugscheisser (shitters of wisdom)