Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
Tim Stanley absolutely blistering on covid vaxport nonsense in DT today.
Maybe it is only a very angry but small number of folk who are up in arms about this but thank god there are some of us not prepared to let our government take this country down that route.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Do you know the meaning of the word "may"?
"may" does not mean "would".
I was merely, politely, answering your question: “ Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?” with the information, which you seemed to be lacking, that Boris had said he might backed up by this morning’s press that he would. Why you can’t understand that some people, therefore, had a reasonable expectation of hearing more just seems odd.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
The mayor of London is to launch a review examining the feasibility of decriminalising cannabis as part of a new approach to tackling drug-related crime.
Should he be re-elected on 6 May, Sadiq Khan said he would set up an independent London drugs commission to examine the potential health, economic and criminal justice benefits of decriminalising the class-B drug.
Sounds sensible
Cannabis causes mental illness in many people. Not a good idea IMO.
80%+ of adults get vaccinated, we unlock the economy, and the virus stays suppressed. Happy days.
In September along comes a vaccine-avoiding variant and a new vaccine gets released. At that point the vaccine passport/certification is essentially acting as an age-based lockdown. If you're young and not yet vaccinated, you're in lockdown, but if you're old and have had your booster, you can do what you like.
Is that what people want?
It's ridiculous because the current government plan is to only vaccinate the 15m in groups 1-4 against variants. The vaccine passport doesn't make sense for variants unless the government is happy to instantly exclude 37m people from the economy.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
Tim Stanley absolutely blistering on covid vaxport nonsense in DT today.
Maybe it is only a very angry but small number of folk who are up in arms about this but thank god there are some of us not prepared to let our government take this country down that route.
If the polls are correct, we are powerless to stop it.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
Given the increasingly threadbare economic case for Scexit, which I think would be amplified by a referendum campaign if managed properly, I almost wondering if Boris might go along with the demand for one.
I don't think so, but you do wonder sometimes.
I should say, this is why I think the Salmondites have their doubts about Sturgeon's commitment. They wonder if she really would be prepared to argue black is white during a campaign. I think she would but, obviously, Eck knows her better than I do.
I am at the point that Boris should let Holyrood settle down with Sturgeon v Salmond v Galloway box office civil war and then let the HOC have a free vote on a section 30 request
If a referendum follows I am quite relaxed about the outcome but I have to say as someone who loves Scotland it is not a happy place with so much hate, divisions and rancour
Oh no, is Galloway going to get a seat? Poor Holyrood. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I hae ma doots, a single poll with suspect/untested methodology doesn't really do it for me. I'd be looking for 3/1 or better
It is more than possible
Yeah, well anything's possible, even Douglas Ross becoming FM.
Ok, not that.
Douglas Ross will not be FM and he is not helping the Scons
Very poor just like RT Davies in Wales
RT is leading the Welsh Tories to their best result since devolution in 1999, Ross is doing about the same as Davidson did in 2016
RT is not leading the Welsh Tories to their best result, it is Boris as has been confirmed separately to you by other Welsh posters
RT is an embarrassment
He is the Welsh Tories leader in the Senedd, if as the latest polls show the Welsh Conservatives get up to 30% on election day it will be RT who will get the best Tory result in GB on May 6th, even as the Tories lose badly in London, lose some seats in the county council elections and tread water in Scotland
You do not live in Wales and argue against those of us who do and we affirm he is an embarrassment
Try to find any Welsh poster on here who will agree with you
But then you cannot ever admit you are wrong so carry on with your delusions
You have an agenda against RT, that is clear, well tough on May 6th 2021 the history books will show RT will lead the Welsh Conservatives to their best ever result in the Welsh Parliament, he will go down as the greatest Welsh Conservative leader ever!!
I want a Welsh conservative leader that appeals to voters and is not an embarrassment to those of us who are party members
It will be Boris vaccine success that wins it for the conservatives, if they do win, than anything RT has said or done and that is what will be remembered
He obviously is appealing to voters, he is leading the Welsh Tories to 30% of the vote in Wales, something none of his predecessors, Rod Richards or Nick Bourne, ever got close to achieving.
The history books will record RT therefore as the greatest Welsh Conservatives leader ever, there will be statues of him in Conservative clubs and Associations across Wales!!
Aren't the only pictures/statues in Tory clubs allowed of the Queen and Thatcher ?
Plus Boris of course
Churchill? Don't Tories who were so up in arms at Joe Biden's alleged "disrespect" themselves bother to have WSC's graven image in their own inner sanctum? (Or is that sanctae or some such?)
Given the increasingly threadbare economic case for Scexit, which I think would be amplified by a referendum campaign if managed properly, I almost wondering if Boris might go along with the demand for one.
I don't think so, but you do wonder sometimes.
I should say, this is why I think the Salmondites have their doubts about Sturgeon's commitment. They wonder if she really would be prepared to argue black is white during a campaign. I think she would but, obviously, Eck knows her better than I do.
I must admit, your last point there, I don't totally get where this view that Sturgeon is not committed to Sindy is coming from. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of people in the SNP machine who are just comfortable with their big secure lucrative jobs, you get that in politics, but Nicola Sturgeon herself? I don't see it. Sindy has been the cause of her life. Perhaps she has lost interest, only she knows, but the evidence for this is not obvious to me.
The lost referendum was only in 2014 and since then there has been Brexit and the pandemic with room for little else. Sturgeon has consistently made the drip drip case that Brexit means Sindy2 must happen once Covid is dealt with and she is putting it - Sindy2 - front and centre of the SNP campaign for these elections.
What is it she was expected to do (up to now) that she hasn't done?
I don't disagree. But there's certainly a meme which casts doubt on her commitment. Actually, I don't think her commitment is in doubt, it's just that the economic case is such a slam dunk against Indy, that it would be very challenging to lead a successful campaign and be honest about the deficit, currency, pensions, mortgage risk, capital flight etc etc. You can see the attraction of just making a noise about Indy while presiding queen-like at Bute House.
Agree. I do not doubt Nicola's philosophical commitment to independence, but it like our collective commitment to world peace and the abolition of poverty, at best it is slow progress and it isn't actually going to happen.
If following Brexit the indy cause can't get polling at 60% or so - and they can't - it is hard to see it happening. To win a Ref2 they need to be at 60% or so now, because their actual case is so terrible they are bound to suffer losses in a campaign.
Until the weather changes Nicola needs to keep this on the permanent horizon. (Hint: Christianity has been doing this about the second coming for 2000 years and it works fine).
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
The mayor of London is to launch a review examining the feasibility of decriminalising cannabis as part of a new approach to tackling drug-related crime.
Should he be re-elected on 6 May, Sadiq Khan said he would set up an independent London drugs commission to examine the potential health, economic and criminal justice benefits of decriminalising the class-B drug.
Sounds sensible
Cannabis causes mental illness in many people. Not a good idea IMO.
It does indeed. Whether decriminalisation and treatment would be a better approach is moot though. Not that treatment is likely considering the state of Mental health in the UK.
Given the increasingly threadbare economic case for Scexit, which I think would be amplified by a referendum campaign if managed properly, I almost wondering if Boris might go along with the demand for one.
I don't think so, but you do wonder sometimes.
I should say, this is why I think the Salmondites have their doubts about Sturgeon's commitment. They wonder if she really would be prepared to argue black is white during a campaign. I think she would but, obviously, Eck knows her better than I do.
I am at the point that Boris should let Holyrood settle down with Sturgeon v Salmond v Galloway box office civil war and then let the HOC have a free vote on a section 30 request
If a referendum follows I am quite relaxed about the outcome but I have to say as someone who loves Scotland it is not a happy place with so much hate, divisions and rancour
Oh no, is Galloway going to get a seat? Poor Holyrood. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I hae ma doots, a single poll with suspect/untested methodology doesn't really do it for me. I'd be looking for 3/1 or better
It is more than possible
Yeah, well anything's possible, even Douglas Ross becoming FM.
Ok, not that.
Douglas Ross will not be FM and he is not helping the Scons
Very poor just like RT Davies in Wales
RT is leading the Welsh Tories to their best result since devolution in 1999, Ross is doing about the same as Davidson did in 2016
RT is not leading the Welsh Tories to their best result, it is Boris as has been confirmed separately to you by other Welsh posters
RT is an embarrassment
He is the Welsh Tories leader in the Senedd, if as the latest polls show the Welsh Conservatives get up to 30% on election day it will be RT who will get the best Tory result in GB on May 6th, even as the Tories lose badly in London, lose some seats in the county council elections and tread water in Scotland
You do not live in Wales and argue against those of us who do and we affirm he is an embarrassment
Try to find any Welsh poster on here who will agree with you
But then you cannot ever admit you are wrong so carry on with your delusions
You have an agenda against RT, that is clear, well tough on May 6th 2021 the history books will show RT will lead the Welsh Conservatives to their best ever result in the Welsh Parliament, he will go down as the greatest Welsh Conservative leader ever!!
I want a Welsh conservative leader that appeals to voters and is not an embarrassment to those of us who are party members
It will be Boris vaccine success that wins it for the conservatives, if they do win, than anything RT has said or done and that is what will be remembered
He obviously is appealing to voters, he is leading the Welsh Tories to 30% of the vote in Wales, something none of his predecessors, Rod Richards or Nick Bourne, ever got close to achieving.
The history books will record RT therefore as the greatest Welsh Conservatives leader ever, there will be statues of him in Conservative clubs and Associations across Wales!!
Aren't the only pictures/statues in Tory clubs allowed of the Queen and Thatcher ?
Plus Boris of course
Churchill? Don't Tories who were so up in arms at Joe Biden's alleged "disrespect" themselves bother to have WSC's graven image in their own inner sanctum? (Or is that sanctae or some such?)
We certainly have him up in Epping Forest too, especially as he was the former MP for Epping.
Indeed Randolph Churchill is our Association Patron
Sad to hear of Dame Cheryl’s untimely passing. Condolences to her family and many friends, it appears she was well regarded across the political spectrum.
Should be a safe by-election win for the government, but there’s an opportunity for the LDs to run them close with a good candidate.
The mayor of London is to launch a review examining the feasibility of decriminalising cannabis as part of a new approach to tackling drug-related crime.
Should he be re-elected on 6 May, Sadiq Khan said he would set up an independent London drugs commission to examine the potential health, economic and criminal justice benefits of decriminalising the class-B drug.
Sounds sensible
Cannabis causes mental illness in many people. Not a good idea IMO.
It does indeed. Whether decriminalisation and treatment would be a better approach is moot though. Not that treatment is likely considering the state of Mental health in the UK.
To be fair, someone I know was admitted to our local psychiatric unit and they got him sorted out (c.2003-04). He's done very well since.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
Tim Stanley absolutely blistering on covid vaxport nonsense in DT today.
Maybe it is only a very angry but small number of folk who are up in arms about this but thank god there are some of us not prepared to let our government take this country down that route.
If the polls are correct, we are powerless to stop it.
Take the DT and add the DM and that is imo quite a good window on the soul of the Cons voters. Opinion polls less so.
Sorry to hear about the death of Cheryl Gillan. However, it could be a blessing in disguise for the Tories. They could install DRoss as candidate for the by-election. Even DRoss couldn’t lose a 16,000 majority, surely? And it gives them an opportunity to replace him in Scotland with someone less useless.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
Tim Stanley absolutely blistering on covid vaxport nonsense in DT today.
Maybe it is only a very angry but small number of folk who are up in arms about this but thank god there are some of us not prepared to let our government take this country down that route.
If the polls are correct, we are powerless to stop it.
C'mon. People can write some articulate, passionate posts on here and who knows. Might take off and change everything. Like Rosa Parks refusing to budge on the bus. Same thing.
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
It is, if you'll pardon the pun, goalpost moving. I've no Earthly idea how you're meant to get a repetition of January taking place when the vaccines - which we know are highly effective - will have been given to (at a rough guess) 90% of all people in Phase One, and more like 95% of the most vulnerable, and had at least three weeks to work by the end of this month. By the end of next month we'll have most likely given second doses to cohorts 1-4 and first doses to all the over 40s as well.
With the vast reduction in hospitalisation risk, considerable disruption to chains of transmission, anything up to 30-40% of the unvaccinated thought to have contracted the disease (and therefore to have acquired natural immunity,) and - to put it bluntly - many of the most frail already having caught it and died, I just don't see where you get to another crisis as alleged by these models - especially when even May 17th won't see the back of masks, social distancing, and partitions and other enhanced hygiene precautions in hospitality.
It sounds like the public health lobby trying to find excuses to keep us locked down as long and as tight as possible.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
Well on the one hand TINO, while on the other maybe some will register a (non discernable) protest.
Here we have the dilemma of there being no voice for people of a certain world view. Does it matter? No because democracy. But perhaps people will remember if and when alternatives (inter- and intra-party) present themselves.
Do my eyes deceive me, or is that the 5th increase in the Tory lead in a row since the vaccine bounce was declared officially over?
Starmer has been pretty well invisible since Xmas , and many are now seeing him as too much of a 'nodding dog' rather than providing clear opposition.Bad timing for him given the imminence of the May elections.
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
They were also the team that predicted a daily peak of 4,000 deaths per day. They're one of those teams that desperately look for the worst case scenario and pretend it will definitely 100% happen and then get headlines of doom.
I expect anti vaccine passport sentiment is broadly linked to those opposing having the vaccine itself. The view on here, pro vaccine, anti-vaccine passport is likely not that widely held - and of that view held more widely it'll be people opposing it before they themselves have been vaxxed. Personally my main concern is appropriate exemptions.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Surely you're not so naive as to take press reports at face value?
The press reports everything in the most clickbaity dramatic way possible. Only a naive simpleton would take the press at face value and that's not you surely?
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
They were also the team that predicted a daily peak of 4,000 deaths per day. They're one of those teams that desperately look for the worst case scenario and pretend it will definitely 100% happen and then get headlines of doom.
Andrew Lillico has spent considerable time looking into this 'late surge' theory iirc. He believes it wont happen now I think.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
Facts change. God only knows what we'd have done if the vaccines hadn't come good. But they have and this really ought to be over (domestically, anyway).
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
I have already accepted that very many people in Britain do not value their freedom that highly right now. If the results bear out the polls I will simply keep arguing what I have argued all along since the crisis started.
Namely.........Lockdown is the biggest policy mistake in peacetime since world war two. There is precisely nothing conservative about the conservative party. Giving up freedoms and expecting them to be simply handed back is a great act of folly. The notion that the authorities don't want us to keep us under restrictions a minute longer than necessary is a patent untruth. The notion that vaccines would set us free is another patent untruth.
As Julia HB says, this does not end until we say it does.
Isn't the Tory vaccine boost going to evaporate if it becomes clear we aren't getting back to normal despite all the over 70s (or 50s or whatever) and all the vulnerable and so on, have have been done twice?
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
Precisely because we've done a great job of reducing smoking, but we've done an appallingly bad job on reducing weed.
We've reduced smoking through a campaign of education, information and people making their own decisions. Not through criminalisation, police enforcement and throwing smokers into jail and giving them a criminal record.
Being pro-liberalisation is not the same as being pro-drugs. I don't have weed personally, I think its a stupid thing to do, but people are free to make stupid decisions. They're also free to make clever ones, if given the information and treated like grown ups.
Drugs should be a public health matter like smoking, not a law enforcement one.
I expect anti vaccine passport sentiment is broadly linked to those opposing having the vaccine itself. The view on here, pro vaccine, anti-vaccine passport is likely not that widely held - and of that view held more widely it'll be people opposing it before they themselves have been vaxxed. Personally my main concern is appropriate exemptions.
Would you like to see a zero tolerance approach to the MMR vaccine?
Given the increasingly threadbare economic case for Scexit, which I think would be amplified by a referendum campaign if managed properly, I almost wondering if Boris might go along with the demand for one.
I don't think so, but you do wonder sometimes.
I should say, this is why I think the Salmondites have their doubts about Sturgeon's commitment. They wonder if she really would be prepared to argue black is white during a campaign. I think she would but, obviously, Eck knows her better than I do.
I must admit, your last point there, I don't totally get where this view that Sturgeon is not committed to Sindy is coming from. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of people in the SNP machine who are just comfortable with their big secure lucrative jobs, you get that in politics, but Nicola Sturgeon herself? I don't see it. Sindy has been the cause of her life. Perhaps she has lost interest, only she knows, but the evidence for this is not obvious to me.
The lost referendum was only in 2014 and since then there has been Brexit and the pandemic with room for little else. Sturgeon has consistently made the drip drip case that Brexit means Sindy2 must happen once Covid is dealt with and she is putting it - Sindy2 - front and centre of the SNP campaign for these elections.
What is it she was expected to do (up to now) that she hasn't done?
I don't disagree. But there's certainly a meme which casts doubt on her commitment. Actually, I don't think her commitment is in doubt, it's just that the economic case is such a slam dunk against Indy, that it would be very challenging to lead a successful campaign and be honest about the deficit, currency, pensions, mortgage risk, capital flight etc etc. You can see the attraction of just making a noise about Indy while presiding queen-like at Bute House.
Agree. I do not doubt Nicola's philosophical commitment to independence, but it like our collective commitment to world peace and the abolition of poverty, at best it is slow progress and it isn't actually going to happen.
If following Brexit the indy cause can't get polling at 60% or so - and they can't - it is hard to see it happening. To win a Ref2 they need to be at 60% or so now, because their actual case is so terrible they are bound to suffer losses in a campaign.
Until the weather changes Nicola needs to keep this on the permanent horizon. (Hint: Christianity has been doing this about the second coming for 2000 years and it works fine).
But if you're saying Sturgeon is not keen for a quick referendum because she knows it will be another No - which kills Sindy for the foreseeable future - this would be by your own logic the correct approach for someone truly committed to the cause.
You are trying to have your cake and eat it, argumentally.
I continue to wait for actual evidence that she cares far more about being FM than about achieving an independent Scotland.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Wow you really thought Johnson & Co. would allow you to travel abroad this summer? goodness.
Sorry to hear about the death of Cheryl Gillan. However, it could be a blessing in disguise for the Tories. They could install DRoss as candidate for the by-election. Even DRoss couldn’t lose a 16,000 majority, surely? And it gives them an opportunity to replace him in Scotland with someone less useless.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
Of course the other thing it would tell us is that you can scare a lot of the people a lot of the time.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
I expect anti vaccine passport sentiment is broadly linked to those opposing having the vaccine itself. The view on here, pro vaccine, anti-vaccine passport is likely not that widely held - and of that view held more widely it'll be people opposing it before they themselves have been vaxxed. Personally my main concern is appropriate exemptions.
Would you like to see a zero tolerance approach to the MMR vaccine?
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
I expect anti vaccine passport sentiment is broadly linked to those opposing having the vaccine itself. The view on here, pro vaccine, anti-vaccine passport is likely not that widely held - and of that view held more widely it'll be people opposing it before they themselves have been vaxxed. Personally my main concern is appropriate exemptions.
Would you like to see a zero tolerance approach to the MMR vaccine?
The interesting thing is that there is a side effect from the Covid vaccine. There is a tiny chance of a blood clot (someone technical will correct as to the particular version) especially for younger women.
It is an interesting dynamic that in order to have a "normal" life, the govt should be forcing people to take the vaccine which has a non-zero risk associated with it.
And yes of course there are substantial risks to getting Covid. That is not my point.
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
Well on the one hand TINO, while on the other maybe some will register a (non discernable) protest.
Here we have the dilemma of there being no voice for people of a certain world view. Does it matter? No because democracy. But perhaps people will remember if and when alternatives (inter- and intra-party) present themselves.
Ironically our best hope might be labour's cohort of young voters. Why would they turn out of a party that has colluded at every stage in destroying their lives, their hopes and their futures in the past year, and does to this very day? Especially in the locals.
I have a hunch labour could be looking at a very, very bad result in May, worse than even the pessimists expect. Who knows, that might put some life into what is not far from a zombie party.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
May does not mean will.
Do you have a Number Ten press release that says Monday's conference "will" include an announcement on travel?
5 April arrives and the conference is exactly as had been said. It "may" have contained an announcement, but that also means it "may not". In this instance the latter was correct, exactly as was said.
There was no advance trailing other than it "may" have announcement. May doesn't mean "will". Reports in the press are not "will" either. The press will happily take a "may" and turn it into a "will" but unless the statement was "will" that's just the press playing silly buggers as they have a tendency to do. They will always report things in the most dramatic way possible, the press never lead with "it all depends, wait and see" because that doesn't generate clicks.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Na, just pointing out it wasn't promised. The direct quote was that they may be in a position to do so. Of course the media got in a complete tiz about it since it was regarding holidays.
So it seems pretty clear the government have no idea how this all ends, right? Vaccinations might have been the way out but they don't seem to have the faith in that statement any more.
I wish they would be more transparent about this.
If the vaccines are as effective as they appear, we have nothing to worry about once 80%+ of the population is vaccinated.
If there's a vaccine-avoiding variant then we simply face another lockdown in the future. Vaccine passports wont stop it so I'd rather enjoy life as much as possible now before that point.
There is a very mixed message from the government, and I do have some sympathy about the difficulty about giving dates and certainty, but Boris has talked repeatedly of restrictions ending in June. Now it's becoming clear what restrictions ending in June means in practice, that is vaccine certificates/passports, LFT tests twice a week, a traffic light system for international travel with quarantining, and probably more measures. That actually sounds like a lot of restrictions to me, and I'm by and large quite happy to play it safe, but the government has clearly overstated what restrictions ending means.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
For Cyclefree, and other liberals like me, freedoms can only be taken by the state in exceptional and time-limited circumstances. For me, extreme pressure on health services counted. We are not in this position now. The vaccine programme cannot be described as hugely successful with no corresponding return of liberties which have clearly now been relegated to privileges rather than the basic rights of a liberal democracy.
“International travel may start again on 17th May, although the limiting factor is the risk of importing virus variants”. Meanwhile 1000s of people from abroad are coming in every day on tourist visas.
Who can explain that?
Surely the policy should be:
"It is important that the UK is open for business, and that we restrict our citizens freedoms as little as possible. However, until the virus is conquered globally, then caution is warranted.
We will therefore look to open up to countries with low virus prevalence, and to those who are fully vaccinated. For now, this means that only a small number of you will be able travel, but we hope that as vaccine availability improves, and as other countries get on top of Covid, this will improve."
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
Very few people are talking about normalizing weed - decriminalizing is a different position, and derives from the view that prohibition hasn't worked, a lot of today's crime is drugs related, and many problems stem from that.
As with many decisions there are trade-offs to be made, and that is the lessor of two evils.
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
I totally agree.
I can't find it right now, put the polling on it make it a massive wedge issue too.
Tory voters do not like anything that even smells like legalisation...
Legalisation of cannabis and assisted dying are the two policies that I seriously object to from the Lib Dems.
I think cannabis induced schizophrenia in British-Carribean youths is a major part of why they have a far worse rate of diagnosed psychiatric illness, and a fair bit to do with poor educational achievement.
80%+ of adults get vaccinated, we unlock the economy, and the virus stays suppressed. Happy days.
In September along comes a vaccine-avoiding variant and a new vaccine gets released. At that point the vaccine passport/certification is essentially acting as an age-based lockdown. If you're young and not yet vaccinated, you're in lockdown, but if you're old and have had your booster, you can do what you like.
Is that what people want?
Why can't almost everyone be vaccinated by the end of the summer?
There's no reason why the UK can't do one million jabs a day (plus we have single dose J&J on the way), so one would hope middle of June should be more than achievable.
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
Couldn't agree more
Why do you think that reducing the harm done by cannabis necessarily requires the current legal position?
You think drugs are evil. We already allow recreational drugs. Would you ban alcohol and nicotine? If not, why is banning the only possible solution for cannabis?
"Life won't be back to normal by summer amid fears of huge Covid surge, SAGE warns
Government scientists believe some restrictions may have to be maintained until this time next year. Sage papers say there could be another surge in Covid-19 infections in late summer"
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
For Cyclefree, and other liberals like me, freedoms can only be taken by the state in exceptional and time-limited circumstances. For me, extreme pressure on health services counted. We are not in this position now. The vaccine programme cannot be described as hugely successful with no corresponding return of liberties which have clearly now been relegated to privileges rather than the basic rights in a liberal democracy.
Well said. I, for my part, am prepared to tolerate the Government's ploddingly slow unlocking program, because I understand the rationale behind all these five week gaps that has previously been articulated, and perhaps one should cut them a little slack when they say they're worried about going too fast after everything that's happened in the last year.
HOWEVER - if we go through all these steps and there is no sign of a massive resurgence in hospitalisations after each one, then the logical endpoint of this is the binning of all domestic restrictions (I understand that international travel has to be a special case.) That does not mean all domestic restrictions except masks, or all domestic restrictions except masks and "papers please" whenever you want to set foot inside a building that isn't your own home. There is no excuse for restrictions under circumstances where the virus has obviously been crushed, and that is the end of the matter.
80%+ of adults get vaccinated, we unlock the economy, and the virus stays suppressed. Happy days.
In September along comes a vaccine-avoiding variant and a new vaccine gets released. At that point the vaccine passport/certification is essentially acting as an age-based lockdown. If you're young and not yet vaccinated, you're in lockdown, but if you're old and have had your booster, you can do what you like.
Is that what people want?
Why can't almost everyone be vaccinated by the end of the summer?
There's no reason why the UK can't do one million jabs a day (plus we have single dose J&J on the way), so one would hope middle of June should be more than achievable.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Wow you really thought Johnson & Co. would allow you to travel abroad this summer? goodness.
I think they will. Better than 50/50 anyway. I actually think 17 May will be adhered to, Johnson said three times today that roadmap is on track. But I think there will be degrees, depending on situation in the particular country (traffic light system, or red list, or corridor system).
Just gradually catching up on the press conference - I'm a little behind and being distracted by other things anyway. Just heard Johnson wriggling like an eel in response to Beth Rigby's straightforward questioning on life after June 21st. Clearly the plan is to ignore the success or otherwise of the vaccine rollout and to force these wretched ID cards on us anyway.
I don't see how anyone listening to the Prime Minister's response can credibly claim that the last step of the road map means anything. We're not going to be let go to get on with our lives, we're going to be chained by officialdom - indefinitely it would appear.
You are making the same mistake Boris accused a journalist of
You are taking all your fences at once
I am prepared to wait for the Government to plod through its steps to liberation. What we shouldn't be expected to put up with is restrictions forever based on flimsy, pathetic excuses.
If the disease is rampant in June then fine, keep giving it a good kick, but if it is crushed then there is no excuse for any of this rubbish to continue.
The polls show all the people that Boris needs to be on board are. Absolutely. People like us who want our freedom back with no strings attached are a small minority. There is no getting away from that.
Yet look at the responses to Michael Gove's article in the Telegraph. All the most upvoted comments were the most vehemently critical of Gove's suggestions.
The same is true in the Mail, except the numbers are much bigger because there are more readers.
Is something weird going on? who knows, but the locals, real elections, may tell us more.
It's a minority of very engaged people getting angry. My guess would be that most folk are (a) apathetic, (b) so desperate to be let out of their cages that they'll agree to anything in exchange, or (c) are authoritarian (and deeply frightened) older people who welcome any number of restrictions, and would indeed cheer if we stayed in something closely resembling lockdown for the rest of time.
Unless a mass of people in the first two groups get sick of masks and social distancing and vaccine passports then we may be stuck with elements of all three indefinitely - and even then we may not get our lives back, I'm afraid. Half of the active electorate is now over 55 and they break very strongly for the Conservatives.
I looked at a copy of today and yesterday's Daily Telegraph.
Boy are they anti vaccine passport and pro unlocking.
Haven't seen the DM but the DT must account for a fair few Cons voters.
There does seem, on the face of it, to be a discrepancy between the upvotes/comments on the popular right wing newspaper sites and the opinion polls, where all is hunky dory for Boris.
We need some real elections.
What will you do if the real elections tell the same story as the polls?
Well on the one hand TINO, while on the other maybe some will register a (non discernable) protest.
Here we have the dilemma of there being no voice for people of a certain world view. Does it matter? No because democracy. But perhaps people will remember if and when alternatives (inter- and intra-party) present themselves.
Ironically our best hope might be labour's cohort of young voters. Why would they turn out of a party that has colluded at every stage in destroying their lives, their hopes and their futures in the past year, and does to this very day? Especially in the locals.
I have a hunch labour could be looking at a very, very bad result in May, worse than even the pessimists expect. Who knows, that might put some life into what is not far from a zombie party.
At some stage, for whatever reason, Labour supporters will presumably get fed up with their party not opposing anything the government does.
By May 6th there could just be a chance for them to build up a libertarian-type narrative were it not for the fact that they can't wait to get into power with such measures in place and as precedent.
Which of course (Cons) cheerleaders of all this legislation somehow ignore.
When there is such a good story to tell, why persist with being a gloomster?
Another day of everyone breaking the rules today; and cases are through the floor.
Who is going to test themselves twice a week for something that isn't circulating in the community?
Strikes me that soon biz are just going to say to hell with it.
Maybe the behaviour scientists have already told him that it will end when we, the public, say it ends and Johnson is just riffing until that happens sometime in next month or two?
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
I get that I’m just some guy on the internet and they do this professionally, but their assumptions on vaccine efficacy against infection and against hospitalisation look rather divergent to what we already know or rather bewildering. As well as being massively variable between their three groups)
I can’t see the second dose of the AZ vaccine having zero effect as most of them seem to assume. I don’t see two doses only reducing infection by 31% or even 63%. That vaccination rates will only average a total of 2.7 million doses per week between now and June and then drop to 2 million a week seems incredibly pessimistic.
And yes, once again, I’m just some guy on the Internet, but I had very similar issues with their January modelling, which indeed proved to be based on incorrect and hugely overpessimistic assumptions.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
We do know the answer to many of those questions, though.
For a start, the people on the clinical trials are still being studied, and there doesn't seem to be any let up in protection for people on the Pfizer jab. (Bear in mind some of these people had their first shot 10 or 11 months ago now) If protection was going to fade quickly, we'd see it in the numbers from the trials
Secondly, we know that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is not dented by either Kent or Saffer Covid. There is some diminution in efficacy for AZ for the SA variant (although that is likely overstated by the very limited trial), but the other vaccines seem to also be pretty good against it.
Thirdly, we can look at Israel, They're a little ahead of us (and the AZ vaccine takes longer to cash its protective halo), but they are now essentially fully open to travel and their nightclubs are now booming. If there is a variant that can completely evade the vaccines, we'll see it soon enough there.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour do not know which way to turn, right now.
Labour under Starmer try to avoid taking a strong position - shocked I tell you
"Life won't be back to normal by summer amid fears of huge Covid surge, SAGE warns
Government scientists believe some restrictions may have to be maintained until this time next year. Sage papers say there could be another surge in Covid-19 infections in late summer"
Government scientists have been given enormous powers over our everyday lives. Without much accountability,.
They do not want to relinquish these powers. Ever. Because they are people and that's what people are like. People love power. That's why powers are, generally, separated in constitutions.
Modelling by Warwick University, Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine (LSHTM) warned of a late summer surge after 'freedom day' in June which could rival levels seen this January when hospitals were nearly overwhelmed.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
I get that I’m just some guy on the internet and they do this professionally, but their assumptions on vaccine efficacy against infection and against hospitalisation look rather divergent to what we already know or rather bewildering. As well as being massively variable between their three groups)
I can’t see the second dose of the AZ vaccine having zero effect as most of them seem to assume. I don’t see two doses only reducing infection by 31% or even 63%. That vaccination rates will only average a total of 2.7 million doses per week between now and June and then drop to 2 million a week seems incredibly pessimistic.
And yes, once again, I’m just some guy on the Internet, but I had very similar issues with their January modelling, which indeed proved to be based on incorrect and hugely overpessimistic assumptions.
Thanks for looking at this, PB benefits from people prepared to take time to actually look at the detail (I'm too lazy most of the time!).
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
For Cyclefree, and other liberals like me, freedoms can only be taken by the state in exceptional and time-limited circumstances. For me, extreme pressure on health services counted. We are not in this position now. The vaccine programme cannot be described as hugely successful with no corresponding return of liberties which have clearly now been relegated to privileges rather than the basic rights of a liberal democracy.
Get over yourself. The situation is much improved and restrictions are and will continue to be lifted and lightened. We are though in the midst of a massive trial wrt to vaccine efficacy. We do not yet know how long the vaccine works for, the potential impact of new variants from a world largely unvaccinated and a disease still fairly rampant within 20 miles of Uk shores. Give the government a chance to get many more people jabbed.
And some people still parrot that this has a 0.15% IFR. Russia would have to have had over 281 million out of its 144 million people infected already to match that IFR.
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
I totally agree.
I can't find it right now, put the polling on it make it a massive wedge issue too.
Tory voters do not like anything that even smells like legalisation...
Legalisation of cannabis and assisted dying are the two policies that I seriously object to from the Lib Dems.
I think cannabis induced schizophrenia in British-Carribean youths is a major part of why they have a far worse rate of diagnosed psychiatric illness, and a fair bit to do with poor educational achievement.
And assisted dying? Why must people who are suffering, and terminally ill, and whose situation is therefore (as far as they are concerned) hopeless, be denied relief because they are unable or unwilling to book in to Dignitas?
Is it that people who have had enough and want to go quietly have to put up with palliative care for the sake of other people who might be pressurized into taking the option when they don't want to? I'm not trying to get on my high horse, I'm interested in other peoples' thoughts about this.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour do not know which way to turn, right now.
Labour under Starmer try to avoid taking a strong position - shocked I tell you
In fairness, that worked for Tony Blair and David Cameron.
So it seems pretty clear the government have no idea how this all ends, right? Vaccinations might have been the way out but they don't seem to have the faith in that statement any more.
I wish they would be more transparent about this.
If the vaccines are as effective as they appear, we have nothing to worry about once 80%+ of the population is vaccinated.
If there's a vaccine-avoiding variant then we simply face another lockdown in the future. Vaccine passports wont stop it so I'd rather enjoy life as much as possible now before that point.
There is a very mixed message from the government, and I do have some sympathy about the difficulty about giving dates and certainty, but Boris has talked repeatedly of restrictions ending in June. Now it's becoming clear what restrictions ending in June means in practice, that is vaccine certificates/passports, LFT tests twice a week, a traffic light system for international travel with quarantining, and probably more measures. That actually sounds like a lot of restrictions to me, and I'm by and large quite happy to play it safe, but the government has clearly overstated what restrictions ending means.
Who are these people who will voluntarily test themselves?! With no symptoms? In a vaxxed society with no community spread?
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Maybe they thought they would be in a position to offer something early, and for some reason they're not and sticking to the original timetable. Could be anything from how other countries' stats are going to how discussions with other countries about vaccine passports are going. It might be down to just a few countries - I imagine we would want to be able to include countries such as Greece, Spain and Portugal, Turkey and France. Malta might be looking to be fully vaxxed but we can't all go there on holiday, it's smaller than the Isle of Wight. So I imagine this time last week the Travel Task Force's work was looking more advanced than it does today.
Isn't the Tory vaccine boost going to evaporate if it becomes clear we aren't getting back to normal despite all the over 70s (or 50s or whatever) and all the vulnerable and so on, have have been done twice?
What was the point?
And is it going to harm uptake of the variant booster jabs if people think the first load ended up a waste of time
And some people still parrot that this has a 0.15% IFR. Russia would have to have had over 281 million out of its 144 million people infected already to match that IFR.
Russia is not merely a middle income country but a decaying middle income country, lacking the experience, efficiency and organisation that has saved, for example, Vietnam from disaster.
They're obviously lying about their Covid fatality statistics. These data suggest that they've suffered an appalling massacre, which is not unexpected.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Wow you really thought Johnson & Co. would allow you to travel abroad this summer? goodness.
I think they will. Better than 50/50 anyway. I actually think 17 May will be adhered to, Johnson said three times today that roadmap is on track. But I think there will be degrees, depending on situation in the particular country (traffic light system, or red list, or corridor system).
Seriously Stocky when are you and the other Johnson apologists going to stop giving this most mendacious of men the benefit of the doubt? At what point is enough enough for you?
The fact is that REAL freedom was never on the table until Mid May anyway and now there are clearly questions around that, despite incredible data.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour do not know which way to turn, right now.
Labour under Starmer try to avoid taking a strong position - shocked I tell you
In fairness, that worked for Tony Blair and David Cameron.
Cameron and Osborne backed the bank bailout, didn't they? Blair, to be fair, was LotO at a very placid time.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Wow you really thought Johnson & Co. would allow you to travel abroad this summer? goodness.
I think they will. Better than 50/50 anyway. I actually think 17 May will be adhered to, Johnson said three times today that roadmap is on track. But I think there will be degrees, depending on situation in the particular country (traffic light system, or red list, or corridor system).
I don't think it will or should be adhered to, based on data not dates.
While the domestic data is as good if not better than what was predicted weeks ago, the overseas data is absolutely terrible. France is going into lockdown, the whole of Europe is undergoing a third wave. Unless we have a green light for pretty much Israel the international data is absolutely awful.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
I don't agree; Labour's response above is entirely reasonable. Labour is not in power: of course it is reasonable to wait to see precisely what the government proposes before deciding what line to take. But there's a clear line that Labour thinks the government should have ruled out vaccine passports for pubs and shops, and that passports generally raise considerable questions about individual liberty.
And at the end of the statement, Labour is quite right. All the testing in the world means little if those with symptoms don't subsequently self-isolate. And all the evidence shows that too many don't. A clear weakness that needs to be sorted, probably by widening eligibility for financial support and making sure people don't lose jobs/hours of work if they self-isolate.
So it seems pretty clear the government have no idea how this all ends, right? Vaccinations might have been the way out but they don't seem to have the faith in that statement any more.
I wish they would be more transparent about this.
If the vaccines are as effective as they appear, we have nothing to worry about once 80%+ of the population is vaccinated.
If there's a vaccine-avoiding variant then we simply face another lockdown in the future. Vaccine passports wont stop it so I'd rather enjoy life as much as possible now before that point.
There is a very mixed message from the government, and I do have some sympathy about the difficulty about giving dates and certainty, but Boris has talked repeatedly of restrictions ending in June. Now it's becoming clear what restrictions ending in June means in practice, that is vaccine certificates/passports, LFT tests twice a week, a traffic light system for international travel with quarantining, and probably more measures. That actually sounds like a lot of restrictions to me, and I'm by and large quite happy to play it safe, but the government has clearly overstated what restrictions ending means.
Who are these people who will voluntarily test themselves?! With no symptoms? In a vaxxed society with no community spread?
I have lots of bridges to sell them....
Giving Johnson the opportunity to delay re-opening if he wants because people are no longer playing ball. After all, he can do what he wants.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
No it isn't. I will not put people around me at risk. If they ask me to wear a mask or stay 2 metres away, I will do so - out of politeness and consideration for my fellow man. What I will not do is comply with the government's increasingly illiberal measures - such as ID cards or testing or whatever.
The government is not being cautious. If it were it would be doing something intelligent about people coming to this country. It isn't. Rather, it is using fear of Covid as a pretext to seize more and more power for itself at the expense of our freedoms, with as little scrutiny as possible, and lying about its reasons for doing so. I will not participate in that or facilitate it in any way. And I will speak up against it.
I hope you in Spain get your vaccines as soon as possible. I have friends there, as I have family in Italy, France and Ireland who are similarly waiting anxiously.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
I don't agree; Labour's response above is entirely reasonable. Labour is not in power: of course it is reasonable to wait to see precisely what the government proposes before deciding what line to take. But there's a clear line that Labour thinks the government should have ruled out vaccine passports for pubs and shops, and that passports generally raise considerable questions about individual liberty.
And at the end of the statement, Labour is quite right. All the testing in the world means little if those with symptoms don't subsequently self-isolate. And all the evidence shows that too many don't. A clear weakness that needs to be sorted, probably by widening eligibility for financial support and making sure people don't lose jobs/hours of work if they self-isolate.
The public knows that labour effectively holds the balance of power because of the number of tory libertarians who are against the government and labour are with Johnson all the way. All the way. As they will be with vaccine passports.
Ask young people what they think of vaccine passports. It isn;t pretty.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour do not know which way to turn, right now.
Labour under Starmer try to avoid taking a strong position - shocked I tell you
In fairness, that worked for Tony Blair and David Cameron.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
Labour do not know which way to turn, right now.
Labour under Starmer try to avoid taking a strong position - shocked I tell you
In fairness, that worked for Tony Blair and David Cameron.
Cameron and Osborne backed the bank bailout, didn't they? Blair, to be fair, was LotO at a very placid time.
Not really. They said they wouldn’t oppose it but they weren’t very clear about what they would have done instead, beyond some waffle about an implausible bail in by other banks.
But that didn’t matter. Because the problem was Labour’s all the way, so the fact the Tories would have done even worse was irrelevant.
Just as had Smith and Brown been in charge on Black Wednesday things would have been a hundred times worse given they supported the government and were beyond furious when Britain withdrew from the ERM. Did that matter? No. And still doesn’t. Because they weren’t in charge.
People don’t remember such things. They remember government cockups. The reason Labour did OK last year is because the government was cocking up more often than Boris Johnson in an editorial meeting of young female journalists. With the vaccine rollout, that’s changed. But given we’ve still got a government ultimately of third rate intellects, many of whom are actual criminals as well, you’d be brave to bet on that remaining the same way for three years.
Starmer is probably doing as well as could be expected, right now. For a number of reasons, that is not ‘well.’ But much water will flow under many bridges before we make a final judgement.
So it seems pretty clear the government have no idea how this all ends, right? Vaccinations might have been the way out but they don't seem to have the faith in that statement any more.
I wish they would be more transparent about this.
If the vaccines are as effective as they appear, we have nothing to worry about once 80%+ of the population is vaccinated.
If there's a vaccine-avoiding variant then we simply face another lockdown in the future. Vaccine passports wont stop it so I'd rather enjoy life as much as possible now before that point.
There is a very mixed message from the government, and I do have some sympathy about the difficulty about giving dates and certainty, but Boris has talked repeatedly of restrictions ending in June. Now it's becoming clear what restrictions ending in June means in practice, that is vaccine certificates/passports, LFT tests twice a week, a traffic light system for international travel with quarantining, and probably more measures. That actually sounds like a lot of restrictions to me, and I'm by and large quite happy to play it safe, but the government has clearly overstated what restrictions ending means.
Who are these people who will voluntarily test themselves?! With no symptoms? In a vaxxed society with no community spread?
I have lots of bridges to sell them....
Giving Johnson the opportunity to delay re-opening if he wants because people are no longer playing ball. After all, he can do what he wants.
Anyone who takes these tests is a masochist and/or a fool.
But not nearly as big a fool as someone who refuses the vaccine for spurious reasons to fulfil their own conspiracy theories on the subject.
I think we can liven up the government briefings by getting Johnson, Whitty, Valance et al. to take their twice weekly tests live at their podiums. I daresay they will be happy to set the example.
I don't get why so many people were ok with the govt locking us indoors for a year and are now horrified at them being cautious about letting us all out again - I must be one of a a small number on here who was angry about the former but can understand the latter
It's quite bizarre and almost hysterical the way people are over-reacting to the Government being cautious. At this point we have a hugely successful vaccine programme but no-one can know yet , for example, how long the vaccines will provide protection and there is still some uncertainty about the potential impact of variants and the extent to which transmission is controlled. All of the signs are good but it would be wilfully irresponsible of any government to declare it's all over and let's all party! Obviously I can understand how exhausted people are - personally I have at least 2 months to wait for a vaccine here in Spain so I do get it. However, I see people here displaying the traits of the very worst of the crappy journalists. Cyclefree's declaration that now she's being jabbed the government can get stuffed was just one of the appalling and least sensitive comments, but she is not alone.
No it isn't. I will not put people around me at risk. If they ask me to wear a mask or stay 2 metres away, I will do so - out of politeness and consideration for my fellow man. What I will not do is comply with the government's increasingly illiberal measures - such as ID cards or testing or whatever.
The government is not being cautious. If it were it would be doing something intelligent about people coming to this country. It isn't. Rather, it is using fear of Covid as a pretext to seize more and more power for itself at the expense of our freedoms, with as little scrutiny as possible, and lying about its reasons for doing so. I will not participate in that or facilitate it in any way. And I will speak up against it.
I hope you in Spain get your vaccines as soon as possible. I have friends there, as I have family in Italy, France and Ireland who are similarly waiting anxiously.
Ben Franklin's comments about liberty and safety are echoing down the centuries. Echoing. They are the first, last and final epitaph for what is being done and they should be carved on the walls of every public building in existence.
Its surely becoming clear there were extremely good reasons why no government in history ever locked its citizens down no matter what befell them, one being those citizens would not bloody stand for it.
Life without liberty is not life at all. It is merely existence. And now we are forced to queue up for dollops of what is our birthright that has been bought in blood, in return for all sorts of indignities and insults from those we have ceded power to.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
Oh sorry the Global Travel Taskforce reporting date is 12 April, not 17 May.
Still why would anything be announced today when the report is being made on 12 April, which is a week today?
The Times this morning reported that Boris would announce details of the overseas travel traffic light scheme and apparently an update from the global travel task force has been published this evening, though I can’t find a link... the Times report includes actual quotes from the PM’s speech so they seem to have been briefed by No 10... from that, I’d conclude that the intention to talk about overseas travel was dropped for some reason...
That doesn't sound like a promise.
No, not a promise... though having checked, the expectation of an update today originates from the PM himself at the March 23rd briefing:
Johnson said: “A lot of people do want to know about what’s going to happen on the holiday front and I know there’s a great deal of curiosity and interest.
“All I can say is it’s just too early to say and my advice is to everybody to wait for the global travel task force to report.
“We’ve heard already that there are other European countries where the disease is now rising so things certainly look difficult for the time being but we will be able to say more we hope in a few days’ time, I certainly hope to say more by April 5.”
So he said then to wait for the global travel task force to report. Since then it's been announced that report is coming on 12 April. That's not today.
From the same report: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested that he may announce on April 5 whether holidays abroad this summer may be possible, a week ahead of the date the government’s Global Travel Taskforce is due to report.
I can’t see why you choose to make an issue of this. Boris himself said that an update would be given today, this morning’s press said he would. He didn’t. It’s not too important, other than expectations were raised. But to deny that today had been trailed as a possible update on travel just seems odd.
For example see this morning’s headline news stories on SKY.
It’s simply the clown doing his usual over-promising.
And Philip having his usual go at defending the indefensible.
If he is quoted as he "may announce" something, and the media report it as he will announce something, who is at fault?
Surely you're not that naive?
Saying that you may be in a position to announce something by a certain date and not doing so is not breaking a promise.
Well obviously, but you can't be naive enough to believe that those stories were not leaked to the press on purpose over the weekend.
How was it leaked? They have a direct quote from the PM!
I'm referring to the reporting in general over the weekend and not that specific quotation.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was done to try and bounce them into a decision. Still, it wasn't a promise.
PM trails the 5 April as the day he may be able to say more about future policy on travel.
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
Wow you really thought Johnson & Co. would allow you to travel abroad this summer? goodness.
I think they will. Better than 50/50 anyway. I actually think 17 May will be adhered to, Johnson said three times today that roadmap is on track. But I think there will be degrees, depending on situation in the particular country (traffic light system, or red list, or corridor system).
Seriously Stocky when are you and the other Johnson apologists going to stop giving this most mendacious of men the benefit of the doubt? At what point is enough enough for you?
The fact is that REAL freedom was never on the table until Mid May anyway and now there are clearly questions around that, despite incredible data.
On April 12th - that's next week - you can have a haircut and 6 pints down the pub. In either order. Just think about that for a second.
Comments
Maybe it is only a very angry but small number of folk who are up in arms about this but thank god there are some of us not prepared to let our government take this country down that route.
We need some real elections.
What am I missing? This just doesn't sound plausible.
I don't see how we go back to full football grounds in London if social distancing remains a thing. The grounds might be deemed safe (but behind the terraces??), but London Underground won't be.
If following Brexit the indy cause can't get polling at 60% or so - and they can't - it is hard to see it happening. To win a Ref2 they need to be at 60% or so now, because their actual case is so terrible they are bound to suffer losses in a campaign.
Until the weather changes Nicola needs to keep this on the permanent horizon. (Hint: Christianity has been doing this about the second coming for 2000 years and it works fine).
Indeed Randolph Churchill is our Association Patron
Should be a safe by-election win for the government, but there’s an opportunity for the LDs to run them close with a good candidate.
When there is such a good story to tell, why persist with being a gloomster?
Another day of everyone breaking the rules today; and cases are through the floor.
Who is going to test themselves twice a week for something that isn't circulating in the community?
Strikes me that soon biz are just going to say to hell with it.
With the vast reduction in hospitalisation risk, considerable disruption to chains of transmission, anything up to 30-40% of the unvaccinated thought to have contracted the disease (and therefore to have acquired natural immunity,) and - to put it bluntly - many of the most frail already having caught it and died, I just don't see where you get to another crisis as alleged by these models - especially when even May 17th won't see the back of masks, social distancing, and partitions and other enhanced hygiene precautions in hospitality.
It sounds like the public health lobby trying to find excuses to keep us locked down as long and as tight as possible.
Here we have the dilemma of there being no voice for people of a certain world view. Does it matter? No because democracy. But perhaps people will remember if and when alternatives (inter- and intra-party) present themselves.
Personally my main concern is appropriate exemptions.
Rather alarmed at the direction of travel in this country and elsewhere.
We’ve done a great job of reducing smoking. Why the hell are we even thinking about decriminalising and normalising weed?
It’s a public health disaster.
I’m generally pretty liberal, but not on drugs. They’re bloody evil.
The press reports everything in the most clickbaity dramatic way possible. Only a naive simpleton would take the press at face value and that's not you surely?
I can't find it right now, put the polling on it make it a massive wedge issue too.
Tory voters do not like anything that even smells like legalisation...
Number Ten briefs the press over Easter that Monday's conference will include an announcement on travel.
Then when 5 April comes, the PM says it all depends, wait and see.
It surprises me the lengths PB's fanclub will go to, to try and excuse another booboo by our chief clown. There was no need for all this advance trailing at all, and simply makes him look stupid.
See: https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico
Namely.........Lockdown is the biggest policy mistake in peacetime since world war two. There is precisely nothing conservative about the conservative party. Giving up freedoms and expecting them to be simply handed back is a great act of folly. The notion that the authorities don't want us to keep us under restrictions a minute longer than necessary is a patent untruth. The notion that vaccines would set us free is another patent untruth.
As Julia HB says, this does not end until we say it does.
What was the point?
We've reduced smoking through a campaign of education, information and people making their own decisions. Not through criminalisation, police enforcement and throwing smokers into jail and giving them a criminal record.
Being pro-liberalisation is not the same as being pro-drugs. I don't have weed personally, I think its a stupid thing to do, but people are free to make stupid decisions. They're also free to make clever ones, if given the information and treated like grown ups.
Drugs should be a public health matter like smoking, not a law enforcement one.
You are trying to have your cake and eat it, argumentally.
I continue to wait for actual evidence that she cares far more about being FM than about achieving an independent Scotland.
Labour responds to government lockdown easing announcement
Labour MP and shadow health minister Justin Madders tells the BBC News Channel he thinks the announcement today is "positive that it appears to be working so far" and he's "very happy that things appear to be on track".
But he adds there are some things the UK "could be doing an awful lot better".
He says Labour "have got concerns" about vaccine passports, as they could have a "major impact on everyone" and individual liberties and freedoms. There are "very significant questions" about whether these are "the right and fair thing to do".
There are "lots of unanswered questions" about the passports, he adds.
Madders says he was "a little bit worried" the prime minister did not fully rule out vaccine passports for pubs and shops from 17 May.
On travel, he says overseas travel is "very difficult" and the situation continues to change "on a daily basis" but he says the industry needs some assurance for the summer.
He says testing is important to show people when they are ill, but he says Covid support payments, to help those to self-isolate who are on low incomes, are only available to one in eight people. Madders says eligibility needs to be expanded.
Labour's prevarication and waffle on vaccine passports continues.
It is an interesting dynamic that in order to have a "normal" life, the govt should be forcing people to take the vaccine which has a non-zero risk associated with it.
And yes of course there are substantial risks to getting Covid. That is not my point.
At the same time, SAGE are power-crazed, stupid, dangerous liars who don’t have a clue what they’re doing and should die painful deaths.
I have a hunch labour could be looking at a very, very bad result in May, worse than even the pessimists expect. Who knows, that might put some life into what is not far from a zombie party.
Do you have a Number Ten press release that says Monday's conference "will" include an announcement on travel?
5 April arrives and the conference is exactly as had been said. It "may" have contained an announcement, but that also means it "may not". In this instance the latter was correct, exactly as was said.
There was no advance trailing other than it "may" have announcement. May doesn't mean "will". Reports in the press are not "will" either. The press will happily take a "may" and turn it into a "will" but unless the statement was "will" that's just the press playing silly buggers as they have a tendency to do. They will always report things in the most dramatic way possible, the press never lead with "it all depends, wait and see" because that doesn't generate clicks.
"It is important that the UK is open for business, and that we restrict our citizens freedoms as little as possible. However, until the virus is conquered globally, then caution is warranted.
We will therefore look to open up to countries with low virus prevalence, and to those who are fully vaccinated. For now, this means that only a small number of you will be able travel, but we hope that as vaccine availability improves, and as other countries get on top of Covid, this will improve."
As with many decisions there are trade-offs to be made, and that is the lessor of two evils.
I think cannabis induced schizophrenia in British-Carribean youths is a major part of why they have a far worse rate of diagnosed psychiatric illness, and a fair bit to do with poor educational achievement.
You think drugs are evil. We already allow recreational drugs. Would you ban alcohol and nicotine? If not, why is banning the only possible solution for cannabis?
Government scientists believe some restrictions may have to be maintained until this time next year. Sage papers say there could be another surge in Covid-19 infections in late summer"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/lockdown-plan-fully-reopen-pubs-23856766
HOWEVER - if we go through all these steps and there is no sign of a massive resurgence in hospitalisations after each one, then the logical endpoint of this is the binning of all domestic restrictions (I understand that international travel has to be a special case.) That does not mean all domestic restrictions except masks, or all domestic restrictions except masks and "papers please" whenever you want to set foot inside a building that isn't your own home. There is no excuse for restrictions under circumstances where the virus has obviously been crushed, and that is the end of the matter.
By May 6th there could just be a chance for them to build up a libertarian-type narrative were it not for the fact that they can't wait to get into power with such measures in place and as precedent.
Which of course (Cons) cheerleaders of all this legislation somehow ignore.
I dunno.
I get that I’m just some guy on the internet and they do this professionally, but their assumptions on vaccine efficacy against infection and against hospitalisation look rather divergent to what we already know or rather bewildering.
As well as being massively variable between their three groups)
I can’t see the second dose of the AZ vaccine having zero effect as most of them seem to assume. I don’t see two doses only reducing infection by 31% or even 63%.
That vaccination rates will only average a total of 2.7 million doses per week between now and June and then drop to 2 million a week seems incredibly pessimistic.
And yes, once again, I’m just some guy on the Internet, but I had very similar issues with their January modelling, which indeed proved to be based on incorrect and hugely overpessimistic assumptions.
For a start, the people on the clinical trials are still being studied, and there doesn't seem to be any let up in protection for people on the Pfizer jab. (Bear in mind some of these people had their first shot 10 or 11 months ago now) If protection was going to fade quickly, we'd see it in the numbers from the trials
Secondly, we know that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is not dented by either Kent or Saffer Covid. There is some diminution in efficacy for AZ for the SA variant (although that is likely overstated by the very limited trial), but the other vaccines seem to also be pretty good against it.
Thirdly, we can look at Israel, They're a little ahead of us (and the AZ vaccine takes longer to cash its protective halo), but they are now essentially fully open to travel and their nightclubs are now booming. If there is a variant that can completely evade the vaccines, we'll see it soon enough there.
Government scientists have been given enormous powers over our everyday lives. Without much accountability,.
They do not want to relinquish these powers. Ever. Because they are people and that's what people are like. People love power.
That's why powers are, generally, separated in constitutions.
It's tosh.
And it's yet another example of the "step function fallacy".
Please talk about "variants which reduce vaccine efficacy".
Is it that people who have had enough and want to go quietly have to put up with palliative care for the sake of other people who might be pressurized into taking the option when they don't want to? I'm not trying to get on my high horse, I'm interested in other peoples' thoughts about this.
I have lots of bridges to sell them....
They're obviously lying about their Covid fatality statistics. These data suggest that they've suffered an appalling massacre, which is not unexpected.
The fact is that REAL freedom was never on the table until Mid May anyway and now there are clearly questions around that, despite incredible data.
While the domestic data is as good if not better than what was predicted weeks ago, the overseas data is absolutely terrible. France is going into lockdown, the whole of Europe is undergoing a third wave. Unless we have a green light for pretty much Israel the international data is absolutely awful.
And at the end of the statement, Labour is quite right. All the testing in the world means little if those with symptoms don't subsequently self-isolate. And all the evidence shows that too many don't. A clear weakness that needs to be sorted, probably by widening eligibility for financial support and making sure people don't lose jobs/hours of work if they self-isolate.
The government is not being cautious. If it were it would be doing something intelligent about people coming to this country. It isn't. Rather, it is using fear of Covid as a pretext to seize more and more power for itself at the expense of our freedoms, with as little scrutiny as possible, and lying about its reasons for doing so. I will not participate in that or facilitate it in any way. And I will speak up against it.
I hope you in Spain get your vaccines as soon as possible. I have friends there, as I have family in Italy, France and Ireland who are similarly waiting anxiously.
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1379101639227887620?s=19
The public knows that labour effectively holds the balance of power because of the number of tory libertarians who are against the government and labour are with Johnson all the way. All the way. As they will be with vaccine passports.
Ask young people what they think of vaccine passports. It isn;t pretty.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1379120214621708290?s=19
But that didn’t matter. Because the problem was Labour’s all the way, so the fact the Tories would have done even worse was irrelevant.
Just as had Smith and Brown been in charge on Black Wednesday things would have been a hundred times worse given they supported the government and were beyond furious when Britain withdrew from the ERM. Did that matter? No. And still doesn’t. Because they weren’t in charge.
People don’t remember such things. They remember government cockups. The reason Labour did OK last year is because the government was cocking up more often than Boris Johnson in an editorial meeting of young female journalists. With the vaccine rollout, that’s changed. But given we’ve still got a government ultimately of third rate intellects, many of whom are actual criminals as well, you’d be brave to bet on that remaining the same way for three years.
Starmer is probably doing as well as could be expected, right now. For a number of reasons, that is not ‘well.’ But much water will flow under many bridges before we make a final judgement.
But not nearly as big a fool as someone who refuses the vaccine for spurious reasons to fulfil their own conspiracy theories on the subject.
Its surely becoming clear there were extremely good reasons why no government in history ever locked its citizens down no matter what befell them, one being those citizens would not bloody stand for it.
Life without liberty is not life at all. It is merely existence. And now we are forced to queue up for dollops of what is our birthright that has been bought in blood, in return for all sorts of indignities and insults from those we have ceded power to.