New Ipsos “Vaccine Passport” polling finds strong support across a wide range of activities – politi
Comments
-
NHSX is looking at proposals....the digital bit that writes all the other crap appsNigelb said:
I already have a bit of paper they gave me with my first vaccination.Andy_JS said:
I don't think anyone would have a problem with showing a bit of paper. I'd be surprised if that's what the government has in mind.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the danger of having a a bit of paper showing you've had a jab?Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I really don't get what on earth people are worried about here. Youngsters need a card to get into a pub already. Oldies have bus passes. Anyone who has travelled to some countries needs a Yellow Fever certificate. What on earth is the problem of having a certificate showing you're not a danger entering a non-socially-distanced event today? No-one is being forced to have a jab, no-one will be forced to have a certificate, and - most crucially of all - no-one will be denied entry to somewhere where they might have gone anyway, since without the vaccine passports these places would be shut completely, by law or because they are not viable with social distancing.0 -
On topic -
I remain of the firm view that, apart from for international travel, we will not be embracing vaccine passports.
And for pubs and restaurants there is not a cat's chance.2 -
Another reminder of the sort of people the EU seem happy to do business with to buy vaccines....Gallowgate said:0 -
What's Russia's favourite pasta dish?Casino_Royale said:
Why? Dick waving or is Putin planning a blitzkrieg?Gallowgate said:
Spaghetti alla Putin-esca!
1 -
The Sputnik vaccines are meant to be filled in perfume bottles - I'm sure.Time_to_Leave said:
Looks like the Russians’ european cathedral appreciation society to me.felix said:
The tanks are just bringing essential vaccines to Germany..honest guv you can trust Putin......Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days0 -
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.0 -
From a quick look at Twitter it could be anything from just exercises (it's Russia's military exercise season) to a land invasion of Ukraine. 🤷♂️dixiedean said:0 -
My view also. It's probably just sabre-ratting to nudge the itinerant covid-resistant young to get vaxxed. In any case, does anyone really believe the government has a hope of delivering a working app? Thought not.kinabalu said:On topic -
I remain of the firm view that, apart from for international travel, we will not be embracing vaccine passports.
And for pubs and restaurants there is not a cat's chance.0 -
Everyone has something to hide, and quite right too.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said a few days ago a bit of paper is no issue. Accept of course people lose bits of paper and they get forged. What is an issue is electronic surveillance and the ability of the Government to track where we go and what we do with impunity - the phone argument doesn't apply as there are legal barriers to the Government using such data without oversight and no one can demand to se your phone. Moreover plenty of people use burners to avid being tracked.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the danger of having a a bit of paper showing you've had a jab?Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I really don't get what on earth people are worried about here. Youngsters need a card to get into a pub already. Oldies have bus passes. Anyone who has travelled to some countries needs a Yellow Fever certificate. What on earth is the problem of having a certificate showing you're not a danger entering a non-socially-distanced event today? No-one is being forced to have a jab, no-one will be forced to have a certificate, and - most crucially of all - no-one will be denied entry to somewhere where they might have gone anyway, since without the vaccine passports these places would be shut completely, by law or because they are not viable with social distancing.
And as I have said it is utterly pointless unless you ae going to sack every staff member of every shop, pub, club and theatre in the country who hasn't ben vaccinated.
For example, we have the technology for every conversation we ever have to be captured, recorded, analysed and broadcast. If that happened in reality it would be carnage: no-one would be employed, have any friends or have any partners and society would be either utterly repressed or at each others throats: being able to freely vent your emotions and feelings to a friend in an unfiltered way (so you can let off steam, unpack and make sense of it) is crucial to us all functioning in a free and social society.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.3 -
Perhaps Putin has been reading here and is just getting troops ready to go protect the estonian border in the event that the eu blocks pfizer exports and we withdraw ours as some suggestedFrancisUrquhart said:
Another reminder of the sort of people the EU seem happy to do business with to buy vaccines....Gallowgate said:0 -
I see it has kicked off at another school....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9422507/Students-Pimlico-Academy-London-stage-protest-racist-uniform-policy.html0 -
On the lighter side of the news
Politico.com - Rep. Matt Gaetz denies relationship with minor
The Florida Republican, 38, says he and his family are victims of an extortion scheme.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/30/gaetz-being-investigated-for-alleged-sexual-relations-with-minor-nyt-says-478631
“Again, for the fifth time, I don’t really understand this story very well,” [Tucker] Carlson said.
“That was one of the weirdest interviews I have ever conducted,” the Fox host said when his show came back from commercial break. “Don’t quite understand it, but we will bring you more when we find out,” he added.0 -
I think that goes in waves.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.0 -
The libertarian solution is to let the free market decide.
No restrictions, but if a premise wants to use passports of its own free will, without any pressure or coercion, and customers want to go to that venue then that is their free choice.
If other venues don't and other customers don't, that too is their choice.2 -
Incidentally, while we're discussing vaccinations, another good example of why getting immunity from vaccination beats getting it from having had the disease.
Long-term measles-induced immunomodulation increases overall childhood infectious disease mortality
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6235/694
Vaccination against measles has many benefits, not only lifelong protection against this potentially serious virus. Mina et al. analyzed data collected since mass vaccination began in high-income countries when measles was common. Measles vaccination is associated with less mortality from other childhood infections. Measles is known to cause transient immunosuppression, but close inspection of the mortality data suggests that it disables immune memory for 2 to 3 years. Vaccination thus does more than safeguard children against measles; it also stops other infections taking advantage of measles-induced immune damage.
Covid, of course, also fncks with your immune system.1 -
'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.1 -
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.2 -
To be clear, I don't like the idea at all and very much hope it doesn't happen. That doesn't change the fact that there's going to be an awkward period between the end of lockdown and everyone getting vaccinated (not to mention the irreducible fraction who will refuse the jab entirely). And in that period, a large number of safety-first types (or scaredy-cats, or authoritarians - take your pick) will want the option of public spaces that they know are entirely free of Covid.TOPPING said:
Yes I see this. If 70% of people will spend in places where there is this policy and, say, 50% of people will spend if there isn't this policy then it makes sense to have the policy.BluestBlue said:
But the calculus on the liberty side isn't quite as straightforward in this case: if people feel that the certainty of being able to eat or travel or work out in a safe environment enhances their positive liberty (freedom to do what they like), they may accept a reduction in their negative liberty (freedom from state intrusion). For most activities I'd rather let the public decide by expressing their preferences via the free market rather than have the government impose vaxports on everything, but the underlying motivations aren't completely irrational.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I disagree with it vehemently. Plus everyone in the UK will need to have had both jabs including the children so where does that take us to time-wise?
And this is of course a natural policy option from a government which has seen the public lap up every restrictive measure without question since this thing began.
Including many, many here on PB.
It would be neater and more principled to just tell them to suck it up and take their chances, but as we've noticed throughout this pandemic, what enough people want, they tend to get.1 -
What's wrong with that? Wild swimming is great.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we get a series on wild swimming from the coast of Redcar?
0 -
Personally I think most of the things being done represent a commendable caution. Vaccine passports may or may not be needed, but I hope they will be voluntary.maaarsh said:
and in this case they won't get any. We're well on course for a vaccination level which will comfortably generate herd immunity even without having to set up a surveillance state. Shows the complete lack of perspective in current government / civil service thinking to be even floating this when we've never taking any even mild steps against people refusing other vaccines for more seriously illnesses.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
70% of adults having had first jab will be done by about the middle of April, I think. We are nearly at 60% now.1 -
To be fair the covid app is actually ok...the problem is that Apple and Google "knew best" and basically the underlying tech they created that all these apps run ontop of is crap and they refuse to allow others to develop anything different as it goes against their "privacy" beliefs....go.see what google have planned for new tracking your movements on the web to see how when it comes to their own tracking privacy goes out the window.Pagan2 said:
NHSX is looking at proposals....the digital bit that writes all the other crap appsNigelb said:
I already have a bit of paper they gave me with my first vaccination.Andy_JS said:
I don't think anyone would have a problem with showing a bit of paper. I'd be surprised if that's what the government has in mind.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the danger of having a a bit of paper showing you've had a jab?Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I really don't get what on earth people are worried about here. Youngsters need a card to get into a pub already. Oldies have bus passes. Anyone who has travelled to some countries needs a Yellow Fever certificate. What on earth is the problem of having a certificate showing you're not a danger entering a non-socially-distanced event today? No-one is being forced to have a jab, no-one will be forced to have a certificate, and - most crucially of all - no-one will be denied entry to somewhere where they might have gone anyway, since without the vaccine passports these places would be shut completely, by law or because they are not viable with social distancing.0 -
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.0 -
Not in Cornwall you won't.algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:
Mansfield for short breaks or days tends to be Skeggy, as the closest bit ,or perhaps North Wales or Blackpool. Delightful lack of Guardian readers there.0 -
What an utterly bizarre post. Also, absolute rubbish. Lots of open water is perfectly swimmable in England for several months of the year. I will assume you are being ironic?algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member." - Groucho MarxSandyRentool said:FPT, I noticed that I was referred to as some sort of quasi-Tory Authoritarian. Outrageous!
Actually, I have been accused of being in the wrong party a couple of times at branch meetings. Once it was UKIP, another time it was the Greens. Never the Tories though.
BTW, these twats littering our parks up and down the land should be put in the stocks. Or be birched. Or both. At the same time. They are just reinforcing my contempt and disdain for humankind.2 -
Very libertarian response.Philip_Thompson said:
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.0 -
"Disturbia" with Shia LaBouef.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.0 -
Well many of us won't. And bear in mind that - as many pub owners know very well - many of those who regularly go to pubs will object in principle to this and will not accept it whilst the many of those who are happy about these ideas are the sorts of people who stay at home watching Strictly Come Dancing on a Saturday night. If 20% or more of your customers say no thanks then those pubs will close anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, it's clearly not a 'ludicrous and unnecessary idea', if the level of the pandemic is such that places have to be closed without it. So you are talking utter nonsense.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is a ludicrous and unnecessary idea. Will you be insisting that everyone who works in a venue or a pub is vaccinated? Are you going to sack those who are not? As I said earlier today, this is not care home workers or NHS staff working with the vulnerable. Will it be extended to shops? Will all shop workers have to be vaccinated by law? If not why not? It is the only way your moronic passport makes any practical sense.
There is no logical public health reason for having vaccination passports within the country. If you think there is then I suggest you go and read the history of the smallpox outbreaks of the 1950s and 60s when a similar schemes were suggested and rejected as being impractical and a sign of state overreach - and that was for a disease with a CFR of 30%.
The only reason for having such schemes is state oversight of our movements. That will never be acceptable. Meanwhile Covid will become endemic like flu and something we learn to live with.
To answer your specific questions (all to be taken in the context where there's still a lot of cases and a largish proportion of unvaccinated people so we can't just relax the restrictions altogether):
Yes, it might be necessary for people working in pubs to be vaccinated, if that's the only safe way the pub can operate, since they are known to be a super-spreader venues. This measure protects their jobs, so I'm unclear what your point about sacking them is. They'll be sacked if the pub can't operate because people like you have prevented this solution from being applied.
No, it won't be necessary for shop workers to be vaccinated, because we know the risk is minimal if they are operated carefully.
Yes, we might have to live with it. This is exactly why the idea has to be considered.
It is a ridiculous scheme which is why it opposed by many of the very companies it is supposed to help.0 -
I was commenting more on the "it will be just a piece of paper you have to show" . The fact NHSx is cutting proposals indicates it is much more than that.FrancisUrquhart said:
To be fair the covid app is actually ok...the problem is that Apple and Google "knew best" and basically the underlying tech they created that all these apps run ontop of is crap and they refuse to allow others to develop anything different as it goes against their "privacy" beliefs....go.see what google have planned for new tracking your movements on the web to see how when it comes to their own tracking privacy goes out the window.Pagan2 said:
NHSX is looking at proposals....the digital bit that writes all the other crap appsNigelb said:
I already have a bit of paper they gave me with my first vaccination.Andy_JS said:
I don't think anyone would have a problem with showing a bit of paper. I'd be surprised if that's what the government has in mind.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the danger of having a a bit of paper showing you've had a jab?Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I really don't get what on earth people are worried about here. Youngsters need a card to get into a pub already. Oldies have bus passes. Anyone who has travelled to some countries needs a Yellow Fever certificate. What on earth is the problem of having a certificate showing you're not a danger entering a non-socially-distanced event today? No-one is being forced to have a jab, no-one will be forced to have a certificate, and - most crucially of all - no-one will be denied entry to somewhere where they might have gone anyway, since without the vaccine passports these places would be shut completely, by law or because they are not viable with social distancing.0 -
Same goes for voting for Putinists and their dupes.Casino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.0 -
You think it is illiberal to have sentences for criminals? 🤔IshmaelZ said:
Very libertarian response.Philip_Thompson said:
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.
That's anarchy not liberalism.0 -
The other ludicrous thing is thinking when we are all fully vaccinated that venues will still stay closed. Frankly it doesn't matter what the pandemic is doing at that point we simply can't afford to stay closed if even vaccines won't do it. We will just have to learn to live with itRichard_Tyndall said:
Well many of us won't. And bear in mind that - as many pub owners know very well - many of those who regularly go to pubs will object in principle to this and will not accept it whilst the many of those who are happy about these ideas are the sorts of people who stay at home watching Strictly Come Dancing on a Saturday night. If 20% or more of your customers say no thanks then those pubs will close anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, it's clearly not a 'ludicrous and unnecessary idea', if the level of the pandemic is such that places have to be closed without it. So you are talking utter nonsense.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is a ludicrous and unnecessary idea. Will you be insisting that everyone who works in a venue or a pub is vaccinated? Are you going to sack those who are not? As I said earlier today, this is not care home workers or NHS staff working with the vulnerable. Will it be extended to shops? Will all shop workers have to be vaccinated by law? If not why not? It is the only way your moronic passport makes any practical sense.
There is no logical public health reason for having vaccination passports within the country. If you think there is then I suggest you go and read the history of the smallpox outbreaks of the 1950s and 60s when a similar schemes were suggested and rejected as being impractical and a sign of state overreach - and that was for a disease with a CFR of 30%.
The only reason for having such schemes is state oversight of our movements. That will never be acceptable. Meanwhile Covid will become endemic like flu and something we learn to live with.
To answer your specific questions (all to be taken in the context where there's still a lot of cases and a largish proportion of unvaccinated people so we can't just relax the restrictions altogether):
Yes, it might be necessary for people working in pubs to be vaccinated, if that's the only safe way the pub can operate, since they are known to be a super-spreader venues. This measure protects their jobs, so I'm unclear what your point about sacking them is. They'll be sacked if the pub can't operate because people like you have prevented this solution from being applied.
No, it won't be necessary for shop workers to be vaccinated, because we know the risk is minimal if they are operated carefully.
Yes, we might have to live with it. This is exactly why the idea has to be considered.
It is a ridiculous scheme which is why it opposed by many of the very companies it is supposed to help.1 -
Or you could have been one of those folks that decided to please Putin and vote for Brexit, and in the process of that increase the chances of the breakup of the UK. It always interested me that Farage and Trump were Putin fans, and, of course, advocates for Britain's exitCasino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.0 -
What publicans think of vaccine passports.
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2021/03/26/Do-pubs-support-vaccine-passports1 -
It's fine. You're being perfectly reasonable on this vaxport issue. I merely point out the inconsistency from our previous tumble when you advanced the arrant nonsense argument that one could not focus in particular on white supremacy racism without junking the universal principle that all racism is evil.BluestBlue said:
Hm, this is what I get for trying to be reasonable. In any case, I've never defended an absolutist libertarian position when it comes to physical behaviour - certainly not during a temporary public health emergency like this one. I'm much more concerned with the growing threat to intellectual freedoms from the left, which are frankly what matter in the long term and in respect of which I'm happy to take a position much closer to absolutism all day long.kinabalu said:
See? You eschew absolutism with your principles when it suits you. Just like I said.BluestBlue said:
But the calculus on the liberty side isn't quite as straightforward in this case: if people feel that the certainty of being able to eat or travel or work out in a safe environment enhances their positive liberty (freedom to do what they like), they may accept a reduction in their negative liberty (freedom from state intrusion). For most activities I'd rather let the public decide by expressing their preferences via the free market rather than have the government impose vaxports on everything, but the underlying motivations aren't completely irrational.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Fact is, absolutist principles applied without flex or temper or nuance, and without reference to the actualities of the flesh & blood world, are for zealots. I think we both know this.0 -
Judging by the increasingly strident appeals for money if you visit their website there's a delightful lack of Guardian readers everywhere.MattW said:
Not in Cornwall you won't.algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:
Mansfield for short breaks or days tends to be Skeggy, as the closest bit ,or perhaps North Wales or Blackpool. Delightful lack of Guardian readers there.2 -
Yes that’s right. The bet only refers to the next GE, if he stays on and wins in 2028 after losing in 2024 that’s a loser for you, else I’d have to wait for him to pass away before I got paid!kinabalu said:
Yep. And I'm sure we're on the same page but just to be sure -isam said:
£100@3/1 agreed 👍🏻kinabalu said:
See? You eschew absolutism with your principles when it suits you. Just like I said.BluestBlue said:
But the calculus on the liberty side isn't quite as straightforward in this case: if people feel that the certainty of being able to eat or travel or work out in a safe environment enhances their positive liberty (freedom to do what they like), they may accept a reduction in their negative liberty (freedom from state intrusion). For most activities I'd rather let the public decide by expressing their preferences via the free market rather than have the government impose vaxports on everything, but the underlying motivations aren't completely irrational.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
If the next GE results in PM Starmer you owe me £300.
If it doesn't I owe you £100.
Literally that. Not "Next PM". If, say, Johnson is replaced by Sunak before the GE, our bet is unaffected.2 -
Thanks. I am touched. Yes. I am surrounded by family members who go wild swimming in Scottish winters. I gently encourage from the touchline, wish them good luck and prepare to ring 999. Just as there are lots of things which make an article but not a book, there are things which make a word but not an article/feature, certainly not several. The fact that Cornwall, like the UK, is surrounded by water which is wet and cold is not news.Anabobazina said:
What an utterly bizarre post. Also, absolute rubbish. Lots of open water is perfectly swimmable in England for several months of the year. I will assume you are being ironic?algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:
0 -
0
-
Perhaps the ankle tags could incorporate a handy bottle opener?Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Disturbia" with Shia LaBouef.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.2 -
Rare that this is the case, but I think if you backed the two outsiders here, even paying the 5% over round, you’re on a good thing. Basically 4/6 Sir Keir is still leader in 2024
1 -
You don't detect a novel infraction of liberty in the physical monitoring of blood alcohol levels in a way which if it were done manually would require would require reasonable suspicion of a breach of the law? Your position isn't necessarily wrong but it sure as hell is anti libertarian.Philip_Thompson said:
You think it is illiberal to have sentences for criminals? 🤔IshmaelZ said:
Very libertarian response.Philip_Thompson said:
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.
That's anarchy not liberalism.0 -
Quite the opposite.Nigel_Foremain said:
Or you could have been one of those folks that decided to please Putin and vote for Brexit, and in the process of that increase the chances of the breakup of the UK. It always interested me that Farage and Trump were Putin fans, and, of course, advocates for Britain's exitCasino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.
Britain being closer aligned to America and other allies willing to stand up to Russia and China, and less aligned with the EU that is a pushover, is not in Putin's interests.0 -
Tbf. Go to Blackpool or Southport and you'll be too shagged out from the walk to the sea to have the energy to swim.MattW said:
Not in Cornwall you won't.algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:
Mansfield for short breaks or days tends to be Skeggy, as the closest bit ,or perhaps North Wales or Blackpool. Delightful lack of Guardian readers there.2 -
Voodoo poll.Richard_Tyndall said:What publicans think of vaccine passports.
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2021/03/26/Do-pubs-support-vaccine-passports1 -
Philip is a bit confused about what he is. One day he says he is a liberal then a libertarian, without realising they are quite different things. I would say this is certainly an illiberal policy. One might argue it is a trade off against incarceration, but liberal it is not.IshmaelZ said:
You don't detect a novel infraction of liberty in the physical monitoring of blood alcohol levels in a way which if it were done manually would require would require reasonable suspicion of a breach of the law? Your position isn't necessarily wrong but it sure as hell is anti libertarian.Philip_Thompson said:
You think it is illiberal to have sentences for criminals? 🤔IshmaelZ said:
Very libertarian response.Philip_Thompson said:
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.
That's anarchy not liberalism.
0 -
There's that, and also it does Johnson no harm to be seen to be considering such things. It looks all prudent and thoughtful at a time when many are understandably nervous about emerging from the pandemic. It may irritate you but it reassures them.Anabobazina said:
My view also. It's probably just sabre-ratting to nudge the itinerant covid-resistant young to get vaxxed. In any case, does anyone really believe the government has a hope of delivering a working app? Thought not.kinabalu said:On topic -
I remain of the firm view that, apart from for international travel, we will not be embracing vaccine passports.
And for pubs and restaurants there is not a cat's chance.
And yes, if it does happen - which it won't - it will be paper. Having an app to do it is a geek fantasy.0 -
Worthy of Churchill or BloombergTheWhiteRabbit said:0 -
Id expect there is still wide support for a benefits cap (depending on the exact amount), the recent concerns wider society have noticed are more to do with the benefits floor and speed and ease of access to a safety net than the cap.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.0 -
Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May. 9
-
My friend works for a Job Centre Plus, her most common exchange with 'customers' in this last year?noneoftheabove said:
Id expect there is still wide support for a benefits cap (depending on the exact amount), the recent concerns wider society have noticed are more to do with the benefits floor and speed and ease of access to a safety net than the cap.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.
New benefit recipient: I've just been paid my first Universal Credit payment, it is only £400 for the month, I thought it was £400 a week, how am I meant to live on £400 a month?0 -
haha, I only had to think of the phrase "Useful Idiot" and you respond! Actually, I am not sure how "useful" you are, but I am sure all the experience you are getting on here might get you a job in Moscow if you were minded to apply.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite.Nigel_Foremain said:
Or you could have been one of those folks that decided to please Putin and vote for Brexit, and in the process of that increase the chances of the breakup of the UK. It always interested me that Farage and Trump were Putin fans, and, of course, advocates for Britain's exitCasino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.
Britain being closer aligned to America and other allies willing to stand up to Russia and China, and less aligned with the EU that is a pushover, is not in Putin's interests.0 -
Smarkets won’t let me bet with them, but I think their Even money quote on Starmer leaving before 2024 is quite the ricket.dixiedean said:
Good spot!isam said:Rare that this is the case, but I think if you backed the two outsiders here, even paying the 5% over round, you’re on a good thing. Basically 4/6 Sir Keir is still leader in 2024
Have Labour ever got rid of a leader before he got a pop at a GE? Starmer won the leadership by a street, and his followers love him even though the public don’t. What would it take for him to leave early? Can’t be a 50% chance1 -
Well, yes, isn't that why we like them?kinabalu said:
It's fine. You're being perfectly reasonable on this vaxport issue. I merely point out the inconsistency from our previous tumble when you advanced the arrant nonsense argument that one could not focus in particular on white supremacy racism without junking the universal principle that all racism is evil.BluestBlue said:
Hm, this is what I get for trying to be reasonable. In any case, I've never defended an absolutist libertarian position when it comes to physical behaviour - certainly not during a temporary public health emergency like this one. I'm much more concerned with the growing threat to intellectual freedoms from the left, which are frankly what matter in the long term and in respect of which I'm happy to take a position much closer to absolutism all day long.kinabalu said:
See? You eschew absolutism with your principles when it suits you. Just like I said.BluestBlue said:
But the calculus on the liberty side isn't quite as straightforward in this case: if people feel that the certainty of being able to eat or travel or work out in a safe environment enhances their positive liberty (freedom to do what they like), they may accept a reduction in their negative liberty (freedom from state intrusion). For most activities I'd rather let the public decide by expressing their preferences via the free market rather than have the government impose vaxports on everything, but the underlying motivations aren't completely irrational.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Fact is, absolutist principles applied without flex or temper or nuance, and without reference to the actualities of the flesh & blood world, are for zealots. I think we both know this.
I'm still not resiling one inch from my position in our previous argument. One day you'll do that self-examination that you're famous for and see for yourself that the neo-left's attempts to expand the reach of their argument necessarily contradict the original basis for it.1 -
Then she should be pointing out that there are many people who dont have much more than that left over after rent and council tax that work 40 hours a weekTheScreamingEagles said:
My friend works for a Job Centre Plus, her most common exchange with 'customers' in this last year?noneoftheabove said:
Id expect there is still wide support for a benefits cap (depending on the exact amount), the recent concerns wider society have noticed are more to do with the benefits floor and speed and ease of access to a safety net than the cap.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.
New benefit recipient: I've just been paid my first Universal Credit payment, it is only £400 for the month, I thought it was £400 a week, how am I meant to live on £400 a month?2 -
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
Are we sure the new Head is called Daniel SmithFrancisUrquhart said:I see it has kicked off at another school....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9422507/Students-Pimlico-Academy-London-stage-protest-racist-uniform-policy.html
Richard would be more appropriate surely0 -
Oh dear Nigel is off the deep end again. It must be hard to find that your arguments are crushed beneath the reality of EU subservience to Russia.Nigel_Foremain said:
haha, I only had to think of the phrase "Useful Idiot" and you respond! Actually, I am not sure how "useful" you are, but I am sure all the experience you are getting on here might get you a job in Moscow if you were minded to apply.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite.Nigel_Foremain said:
Or you could have been one of those folks that decided to please Putin and vote for Brexit, and in the process of that increase the chances of the breakup of the UK. It always interested me that Farage and Trump were Putin fans, and, of course, advocates for Britain's exitCasino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.
Britain being closer aligned to America and other allies willing to stand up to Russia and China, and less aligned with the EU that is a pushover, is not in Putin's interests.3 -
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
Nope. It is simply a trade paper asking the opinion of its own customer base. Or did you miss the fact that The MA is the trade paper for publicans?TheScreamingEagles said:
Voodoo poll.Richard_Tyndall said:What publicans think of vaccine passports.
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2021/03/26/Do-pubs-support-vaccine-passports0 -
She kinda does, the sense of middle class entitlement is something else.Pagan2 said:
Then she should be pointing out that there are many people who dont have much more than that left over after rent and council tax that work 40 hours a weekTheScreamingEagles said:
My friend works for a Job Centre Plus, her most common exchange with 'customers' in this last year?noneoftheabove said:
Id expect there is still wide support for a benefits cap (depending on the exact amount), the recent concerns wider society have noticed are more to do with the benefits floor and speed and ease of access to a safety net than the cap.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same with the benefits system.Casino_Royale said:
This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.TheScreamingEagles said:As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.
Covid-19 really has shaken that up.
The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.
New benefit recipient: I've just been paid my first Universal Credit payment, it is only £400 for the month, I thought it was £400 a week, how am I meant to live on £400 a month?2 -
G. Gordon Liddy 1930-2021 BA LLD GOP RIP0
-
Yep have to agree with you here. This goes way beyond reasonable control.IshmaelZ said:
You don't detect a novel infraction of liberty in the physical monitoring of blood alcohol levels in a way which if it were done manually would require would require reasonable suspicion of a breach of the law? Your position isn't necessarily wrong but it sure as hell is anti libertarian.Philip_Thompson said:
You think it is illiberal to have sentences for criminals? 🤔IshmaelZ said:
Very libertarian response.Philip_Thompson said:
No it doesn't. Convicted criminals facing non-custodial punishments following a fair court case, is entirely within the realms of freedom.IshmaelZ said:'Sobriety ankle tags' rolled out across England
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-56583153
Hugely more dystopian than any number of vaccine passports. Our whole concept of freedom rests on the assumption that you are either in prison or at liberty. That is no longer binary.
That's anarchy not liberalism.0 -
An innocent plumber who was the fall guy for others.SeaShantyIrish2 said:G. Gordon Liddy 1930-2021 BA LLD GOP RIP
0 -
Innocent? This from his NYT obit:TheScreamingEagles said:
An innocent plumber who was the fall guy for others.SeaShantyIrish2 said:G. Gordon Liddy 1930-2021 BA LLD GOP RIP
"As a leader of a White House “plumbers” unit set up to plug information leaks, and then as a strategist for the president’s re-election campaign, Mr. Liddy helped devise plots to discredit Nixon “enemies” and to disrupt the 1972 Democratic National Convention. Most were far-fetched — bizarre kidnappings, acts of sabotage, traps using prostitutes, even an assassination — and were never carried out."
Where was Liddy when Trumpsky needed him?
0 -
I think the penny has dropped as to why the ‘PB Betting experts’ aren’t commenting...isam said:
Smarkets won’t let me bet with them, but I think their Even money quote on Starmer leaving before 2024 is quite the ricket.dixiedean said:
Good spot!isam said:Rare that this is the case, but I think if you backed the two outsiders here, even paying the 5% over round, you’re on a good thing. Basically 4/6 Sir Keir is still leader in 2024
Have Labour ever got rid of a leader before he got a pop at a GE? Starmer won the leadership by a street, and his followers love him even though the public don’t. What would it take for him to leave early? Can’t be a 50% chance0 -
The only useful idiots are in Brussels right now, Nige. Sucking off Putin for vaccine doses and refusing to sign the letter against China interfering with the WHO investigation. That's the reality of the EU, not whatever idealised image you've built up in your head.Nigel_Foremain said:
haha, I only had to think of the phrase "Useful Idiot" and you respond! Actually, I am not sure how "useful" you are, but I am sure all the experience you are getting on here might get you a job in Moscow if you were minded to apply.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite.Nigel_Foremain said:
Or you could have been one of those folks that decided to please Putin and vote for Brexit, and in the process of that increase the chances of the breakup of the UK. It always interested me that Farage and Trump were Putin fans, and, of course, advocates for Britain's exitCasino_Royale said:
Russia only understands strength.Floater said:uh oh
https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1377221037495103489
Apparent corroboration
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/us-euro-command-has-raised-its-alert-level-following-the-build-up-of-russian-ukraine-20210331
I have seen many videos now of Russian military equipment being deployed to Crimea and border of Ukraine
4 Ukrainian servicemen (one a LT Colonel) were killed in last few days
You cut your tanks (our defence review) and buy their vaccines like a desperate and pathetic wet lettuce (the EU) they won't respect you and they'll roll over you.
Britain being closer aligned to America and other allies willing to stand up to Russia and China, and less aligned with the EU that is a pushover, is not in Putin's interests.3 -
Then heading for Ocean City? Should be a big year for wet T-shirt contests!TimT said:
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
And then they will use a total of 27 doses...CarlottaVance said:1 -
Whilst I applaud the general sentinment I've always thought that an odd phrase, as I'd assume a key thing about liberty is that apart from the truly extreme, even those who do not want liberty deserve to have it.Richard_Tyndall said:Very sad. I have always known I was out of tune with the majority of the public on a lot of issues but I never thought they were quite this blind to the inherent dangers of such systems.
"“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”0 -
At least they're not all MacMillans
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=201 -
I would say the following.isam said:
Smarkets won’t let me bet with them, but I think their Even money quote on Starmer leaving before 2024 is quite the ricket.dixiedean said:
Good spot!isam said:Rare that this is the case, but I think if you backed the two outsiders here, even paying the 5% over round, you’re on a good thing. Basically 4/6 Sir Keir is still leader in 2024
Have Labour ever got rid of a leader before he got a pop at a GE? Starmer won the leadership by a street, and his followers love him even though the public don’t. What would it take for him to leave early? Can’t be a 50% chance
Ill health. Doesn't look unwell to me, but you never know, obviously. 2-3%.
A major scandal. Again, never can tell, but he's a former DPP who worked under Cameron and May. If there was owt there it would be out there. No reason for him to start being a naughty boy now. 2-3%.
A successful leadership challenge. As you say, Labour just doesn't knife leaders. And, even if it did, who the heck is there to win it? 10% at most.
The biggie is early election defeat. But the new boundaries kick in in 2023, making that less likely. And a big majority. Why needlessly risk that? See TMay. I reckon about 20 %.
Add in another 5% for black swan event.
40% chance is being somewhat generous.2 -
They’ve never had it so good.Theuniondivvie said:At least they're not all MacMillans
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=203 -
2
-
Not sure anyone wants to see me in a wet t-shirt. Fenwick Island more me than Ocean City. Chincoteague and Assateague even more so.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Then heading for Ocean City? Should be a big year for wet T-shirt contests!TimT said:
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
Why is Jamie-Lee a girls name when Jamie and Lee are boys names?Theuniondivvie said:At least they're not all MacMillans
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=200 -
No worse than, say, Adam Tomkins.TheWhiteRabbit said:0 -
Or 27 doses per person eligible.FrancisUrquhart said:
And then they will use a total of 27 doses...CarlottaVance said:1 -
US is still sticking to 3 weeks between Pfizer and 4 weeks between Moderna doses. But then their supply is far greater than the EU's at this point.Floater said:1 -
I may be biased but I have to say that they're seem to be a lot of parties & individuals guddling about in the same sewagey, anti woke, anti EU, right wing pool in Glasgow, 18 parties in total incl indies. How's a WATP culture warrior supposed to decide?!
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=20
Specimen:
https://twitter.com/gavmacn/status/1377307153594249219?s=200 -
I thought Germany already had gone to 12 weeks for AZ and 6 for Pfizer? Canada has gone to 4 months. Both when they are not suspending their programmes on flimsy evidence though.Floater said:1 -
Post the pics and we'll let you know.TimT said:
Not sure anyone wants to see me in a wet t-shirt. Fenwick Island more me than Ocean City. Chincoteague and Assateague even more so.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Then heading for Ocean City? Should be a big year for wet T-shirt contests!TimT said:
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
Shh dont tell the "in fact we are a beacon" report writers
https://twitter.com/cfmmuk/status/13771541039487017020 -
I am sure there are laws against it in the UK. LOLMattW said:
Post the pics and we'll let you know.TimT said:
Not sure anyone wants to see me in a wet t-shirt. Fenwick Island more me than Ocean City. Chincoteague and Assateague even more so.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Then heading for Ocean City? Should be a big year for wet T-shirt contests!TimT said:
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
0 -
Which is within 1 million of the total forecast by UVDL around 15 February.FrancisUrquhart said:
And then they will use a total of 27 doses...CarlottaVance said:
Though it is 10 million less AZ than expected, and 10 million more Pf.
Number injected is roughly 75 million, which shows how long things take.1 -
Most of it is freezing cold just now, even in the warm bits.Anabobazina said:
What an utterly bizarre post. Also, absolute rubbish. Lots of open water is perfectly swimmable in England for several months of the year. I will assume you are being ironic?algarkirk said:
Guardian readers being gently introduced to the fact that this island has quite a lot of coastline, is surrounded by a fair amount of water, all of it both wet and freezing cold at all times of the year and that plunging in it is free and slightly left of centre and a bit anti capitalist and you won't meet any Telegraph readers or people from Mansfield if you give it a try.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
MattW said:
Post the pics and we'll let you know.TimT said:
Not sure anyone wants to see me in a wet t-shirt. Fenwick Island more me than Ocean City. Chincoteague and Assateague even more so.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Then heading for Ocean City? Should be a big year for wet T-shirt contests!TimT said:
Giving until 2 weeks after the second shot. May 5th marked on the calendar.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So back to crowd surfing at your local mosh pit?TimT said:Oh Happy Day! First shot - Pfizer as it turns out. Second in 3 weeks. Full protection 5 May.
In the meantime, here are some wet pony pictures for you from Chincoteague.
https://www.chincoteague.com/pony_swim_guide.html0 -
He is good isnt he?
Refreshing to hear a Scottish Labour Leader who has passion
https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/13769969415659520026 -
Just seen some blokes coming out of Elland Road Vaccination Centre singing I predict a riot
Pfizer Chiefs?10 -
Jamie and Lee aren't boys' names in the US.noneoftheabove said:
Why is Jamie-Lee a girls name when Jamie and Lee are boys names?Theuniondivvie said:At least they're not all MacMillans
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=20
See the Bionic Woman. And I once snogged an American Lee. I can confirm she was definitely female.1 -
Was that Lee Harvey Oswald?dixiedean said:
Jamie and Lee aren't boys' names in the US.noneoftheabove said:
Why is Jamie-Lee a girls name when Jamie and Lee are boys names?Theuniondivvie said:At least they're not all MacMillans
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1377298857000906759?s=20
See the Bionic Woman. And I once snogged an American Lee. I can confirm she was definitely female.0
