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New Ipsos “Vaccine Passport” polling finds strong support across a wide range of activities – politi

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  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    Guernsey's vaccination centre can do 1,500 jabs a day......
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Evidence over the past year shows that a month is the absolute bare minimum for a lockdown to do much.
  • Options
    algarkirk said:

    As a great libertarian I find this disappointing but yet not unsurprising.

    This is like how Britons support the toughest sentences and punishments for offenders, and throw away the key for good measure, but go all gooey when they have personal experience of the criminal justice system.
    Same with the benefits system.

    Covid-19 really has shaken that up.

    The massive support for the benefits cap seems a long time ago.
    Id expect there is still wide support for a benefits cap (depending on the exact amount), the recent concerns wider society have noticed are more to do with the benefits floor and speed and ease of access to a safety net than the cap.
    My friend works for a Job Centre Plus, her most common exchange with 'customers' in this last year?

    New benefit recipient: I've just been paid my first Universal Credit payment, it is only £400 for the month, I thought it was £400 a week, how am I meant to live on £400 a month?
    It's a weirdness of the system that the benefits cap is generally £20k, which, untaxed, is a lot, but that lots of people seem to receive derisory sums (400 pm being under £5k). There are three mysteries: Is this all true? Why does one never get to know the full package and value thereof someone gets (eg if your rent in paid, your council tax is paid etc this adds thousands of value)? And why is it so mystifyingly complicated to work out any particular case?

    People mislead. The benefits system is hard as hell for single people without children, utterly derisory. The generosity kicks in with children.

    Very quick reckoner, single person with two children £500 a month rent.

    Universal credit £1,427 made up of

    standard allowance £409
    Child element £517
    Housing cost £500

    Plus child benefit.

    Child benefit £140
    =£1567.

    UC also allows an earning ceiling as well. UC has its flaws but it is a much better system than what it replaced.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    At least we can count on President Le Pen having more moderate policies towards Muslims.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008
    The vaccine schedule was meant to protect the people most in need. It is vile that vaccines are now being considered as a way to segregate society and allow the old to milk the young as imprisoned labour units. But suck it up, millennials.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    According to Anobobazina it's like comparing Putney to Mansfield ...or something!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    So if they just had 200 of these new centres they might start to make some progress,
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
    It can really help with deaths. Two weeks after a jab you get some protection. If France can ramp up to 500,000 or more a day in the next fortnight, than 2-3 weeks time the deaths and hospitalisations will begin to fall, meaning they might just be able to keep to their deconfinement schedule.

    It will be close tho, I readily confess that

    Macron should have locked down a fortnight ago or more, and avoided this terrible danger
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    We get the politicians we deserve.

    Boy, we as a species must have done some bad shit.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    I find myself wondering if either he or Merkel will be European leaders for much longer.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
    So there are two possibilities.

    One is that something in the story has got lost in translation. It's for a smallish part of the city, or it's not 1,500 jabs a day.

    The other is that the French government is really talking about doing 1,500 jabs a day in Paris. When we know that they are doing several hundred thousand a day nationwide, with a substantial increase firmly pencilled in for the week after Easter. (We do all know that, don't we?)

    But up onto the leg of the story the usual suspects in the professional and social media mount...

    (No, they're not doing well. But, as when A Level Physics students calculate the mass of a car as 17 ounces, Please try applying some common sense.)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
    It can really help with deaths. Two weeks after a jab you get some protection. If France can ramp up to 500,000 or more a day in the next fortnight, than 2-3 weeks time the deaths and hospitalisations will begin to fall, meaning they might just be able to keep to their deconfinement schedule.

    It will be close tho, I readily confess that

    Macron should have locked down a fortnight ago or more, and avoided this terrible danger
    I think it will take a lot longer, unfortunately. If someone is going to die in 4 weeks time, they will contract it in 2 weeks time. That's before the protection kicks in unfortunately.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
    It can really help with deaths. Two weeks after a jab you get some protection. If France can ramp up to 500,000 or more a day in the next fortnight, than 2-3 weeks time the deaths and hospitalisations will begin to fall, meaning they might just be able to keep to their deconfinement schedule.

    It will be close tho, I readily confess that

    Macron should have locked down a fortnight ago or more, and avoided this terrible danger
    What will Merkel do? I know she is constrained by the Lander.
    But Germany really needs a hard lockdown asap.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Are they vaccinating Muslims?

    Sounds horrible when I put it that way, but having been to Israel...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    DavidL said:

    At least we can count on President Le Pen having more moderate policies towards Muslims.

    If you had said that 6 weeks ago I would have laughed .... but now......
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Are they vaccinating Muslims?

    Sounds horrible when I put it that way, but having been to Israel...
    They are vaccinating Israeli Arabs but not Palestinians. However, take up among the former group is said to be very poor.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    I saw a report where they have hired people to round around in public basically stopping people and saying have you been vaccinated, and if no, saying we will take you now to get it done.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    felix said:

    I find myself wondering if either he or Merkel will be European leaders for much longer.

    The AfD are likely to win a state election in East Germany in early June. If all political careers end in failure, that will be a pretty big one for Merkel.
  • Options
    noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly just kids actually, under 18's are one third of the population
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    felix said:

    I find myself wondering if either he or Merkel will be European leaders for much longer.

    Well. Merkel is retiring in September. So you're half right already.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    RobD said:

    Jesus Sky News saying he is lying about all vaccination centres will be open 7 days a week, they saying they have been to some and asked and they said no will only ever be 6 days a week.

    Well they are open twice on Mondays; morning and afternoon.
    When I had a place in France all the shops closed for half day wednesday - if memory serves even the local supermarkets
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974

    He is good isnt he?

    Refreshing to hear a Scottish Labour Leader who has passion

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1376996941565952002

    John don't go there, he is more like a wet cloot
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    noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly just kids actually, under 18's are one third of the population
    Also I think those which have had the virus aren't eligible
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly kids, one would presume. According to the World Bank, 28% of the Israeli population is aged 0-14. The comparable figure for the UK is 18%, in line with the OECD average. The EU average is only 15%.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks
    All of the EU countries are further behind us than it looks based on the raw numbers because our single-dose strategy allowed us to reach more people faster.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    malcolmg said:

    He is good isnt he?

    Refreshing to hear a Scottish Labour Leader who has passion

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1376996941565952002

    John don't go there, he is more like a wet cloot
    He's being a bit disingenuous suggesting that the referendum debate is between Nicola and the Tories but he is absolutely right that dealing with issues such as he describes is a bit more bloody urgent than referendums or even free bus travel bought with the misallocation of Covid funds from London.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited March 2021
    malcolmg said:

    He is good isnt he?

    Refreshing to hear a Scottish Labour Leader who has passion

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1376996941565952002

    John don't go there, he is more like a wet cloot
    He was the best performer last night by some distance

    Indeed it seems accepted by commentators today that he was very good
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    At least we can count on President Le Pen having more moderate policies towards Muslims.

    If you had said that 6 weeks ago I would have laughed .... but now......
    The look on her face when a Minister accused her of being soft on Muslims was probably the funniest political moment of the year. Even ahead of Nicola's incredible amnesia before the Holyrood committee.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
    It can really help with deaths. Two weeks after a jab you get some protection. If France can ramp up to 500,000 or more a day in the next fortnight, than 2-3 weeks time the deaths and hospitalisations will begin to fall, meaning they might just be able to keep to their deconfinement schedule.

    It will be close tho, I readily confess that

    Macron should have locked down a fortnight ago or more, and avoided this terrible danger
    I think it will take a lot longer, unfortunately. If someone is going to die in 4 weeks time, they will contract it in 2 weeks time. That's before the protection kicks in unfortunately.
    But they won't get it in 2 weeks time. This is a strict lockdown and we know lockdowns are highly effective. Few people will catch it in 2 weeks time. The problem is the ones that have caught it recently and will catch it between now and Saturday.

    If France is getting 40k cases daily now, that could rise to 60-70k cases in 2-3 weeks before it comes down fast (which it will).

    That implies a death rate of nearly 1k a day at the worst, then quickly falling away.

    It won't be as bad as our January, but it will be pretty bad.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    New legislation required. Just by the federal parliament, or does it have to clear the bewildering array of regional ones as well?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly kids, one would presume. According to the World Bank, 28% of the Israeli population is aged 0-14. The comparable figure for the UK is 18%, in line with the OECD average. The EU average is only 15%.
    Thanks. That explains nearly all of it. Had no idea Israel was so young
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    I wonder if the German issues with vaccines is feeding back to Turkey via the 1.5/4.0 million Turks in Germany?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449

    stodge said:

    One or two interesting snippets from European polling today.

    The latest Forsa poll in Germany has only minor changes with both the CDU/CSU and Greens up a point so it's 27-23. SPD 15%, AfD 11%, FDP 10% and Linke 7% soall well within margin of error.

    In Poland, the political landscape has been rocked by he emergence of PL2050, a new grouping which has torn chunks out of the vote of the other main parties. They are a pro-EU grouping seeking to build a new Franco-German-Polish axis to be at the centre of the Union. In the latest poll, PL2050 has 27%, behind the governing PiS on 30% with the KO opposition bloc on 18%.

    We'll do a full talk on Latvian politics another day - meanwhile, in Greece, signs of a small come back for Syriza but New Democracy retains a healthy 41-28 lead.

    That's what Remain should have done. Instead of whinged and whined about the damage leave would do, they should have made the case for a positive vision where the UK took more of a leadership role in the future to shape the EU as we wanted it.

    Alas, not to be.
    My positive vison would have been the UK and the Northern European countries (i.e. the ones with a work ethic) ganging up on the Mediterranean countries.
    Tony Blair tried to do the 'taking a lead' thing. It resulted in us giving up our rebate and the French and Germans doing what they were going to do anyway. You can't lead people where they don't want to go.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly kids, one would presume. According to the World Bank, 28% of the Israeli population is aged 0-14. The comparable figure for the UK is 18%, in line with the OECD average. The EU average is only 15%.
    Thanks. That explains nearly all of it. Had no idea Israel was so young
    I presume Israel can do 12 - 15 yr olds now though with the new data ?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    geoffw said:
    Presumably more emergency legislation will now be passed but similar to the Judge in Scotland who decided with all of the epidemiological expertise that he could bring to bear that closing down places of religion was "disproportionate" and a breach of convention rights you seriously wonder what f******* planet these people are on.
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    noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government
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    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited March 2021
    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a fake YouTube news channel.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks


    Turkey is also a shitshow. 40,000 cases today, and they aren't doing much testing, and their vax drive is embryonic
    How will a surge of jabs between April/May help though? Only those administered in the first week would have any effect on case numbers at the end of the proposed lockdown. Especially as the decision to extend has to be made a bit earlier.
    It can really help with deaths. Two weeks after a jab you get some protection. If France can ramp up to 500,000 or more a day in the next fortnight, than 2-3 weeks time the deaths and hospitalisations will begin to fall, meaning they might just be able to keep to their deconfinement schedule.

    It will be close tho, I readily confess that

    Macron should have locked down a fortnight ago or more, and avoided this terrible danger
    I think it will take a lot longer, unfortunately. If someone is going to die in 4 weeks time, they will contract it in 2 weeks time. That's before the protection kicks in unfortunately.
    But they won't get it in 2 weeks time. This is a strict lockdown and we know lockdowns are highly effective. Few people will catch it in 2 weeks time. The problem is the ones that have caught it recently and will catch it between now and Saturday.

    If France is getting 40k cases daily now, that could rise to 60-70k cases in 2-3 weeks before it comes down fast (which it will).

    That implies a death rate of nearly 1k a day at the worst, then quickly falling away.

    It won't be as bad as our January, but it will be pretty bad.
    My guesstimate is that they will have our January but spread over 2 months rather than one. UK January was an absolute bastard and I hope no other European country suffers anything quite like it.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
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    Scott_xP said:
    They have signed some well known UK and European journalists

    It is time Sky and BBC had real competition
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    I think they are implying that the West is acting like the wolf in the fable, which is silly as China is not a lamb.
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    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a fake YouTube news channel.
    If you check the list of journalists who have moved to them you will see this is a genuine alternative to Sky and BBC
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    I have literally no idea what is going on in that tweet.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a fake YouTube news channel.

    Does it come with flag trigger alerts
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a fake YouTube news channel.
    If you check the list of journalists who have moved to them you will see this is a genuine alternative to Sky and BBC
    It still looks like a fake YouTube news channel though.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    TimT said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like a fake YouTube news channel.

    Does it come with flag trigger alerts
    Literally unwatchable without. :D
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_xP said:
    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Some of the first equipment Russia moved in was anti drone defences - we might get to see how well they work
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    France looking opening up the cultural/food sectors in Mid May.

    Just like Le Royaume-Uni.

    I'm not sure. He said terraces are opening in Mid May - i.e. what we are doing mid April. In mid May we will be allowed to sit inside.

    Sounds like they are about a month behind, which makes sense with this extra month of lockdown
    Looking at the history of the UK lockdown, however, are four weeks(-ish - the schools will be back in three) going to be enough? I know that they start with the advantage of being some distance into their vaccination project, but even in that regard France is only where the UK was - in terms of the proportion of the population to have been given a vaccine - at the end of January, and their upwards trajectory is much shallower.

    Assuming that the unlocking sequence in England happens on schedule, it'll have been three full months from peak mortality to beer gardens. Assuming that the French epidemic follows the pattern of our January disaster, and peak mortality therefore comes about a fortnight into national lockdown, then they're proposing to make that transition in only one month. It doesn't seem realistic.
    Their timetable is optimistic, but I reckon they might just do it because of the vaccines. They are getting a surge of jabs through April/May

    Nonetheless it will be perilous. They are looking at a scary and inevitable surge of cases, hospitalisations and deaths for 3-4 weeks
    All of the EU countries are further behind us than it looks based on the raw numbers because our single-dose strategy allowed us to reach more people faster.
    As i've said before - they all seem to believe that immunity disappears if you don't get your second dose in accordance with the approved schedule. Whereas actually you have a high level of protection for one dose, and certainly sufficient in general if low level restrictions are still in place. They also don't seem to understand that vaccine supply is scaling up massively, and the strategy of holding back second doses will look very silly when there's a glut of availability (both as more come on stream, and countries like America (and yes, to a lesser extent the UK) complete their domestic programmes).
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Some of the first equipment Russia moved in was anti drone defences - we might get to see how well they work
    Indeed. My money is on the drones to start with but it will be an interesting test.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Why has Israel's vax rate topped out at just 60%?!


    Surely, 40% of Israelis are not antivaxxers? I know the fundy Jews are anti vax, but they are only 10-15% of the population

    Have they run out of jabs? What is going on?

    Kids, religious nutcases, anti-vaxxers. It all adds up.
    Mainly kids, one would presume. According to the World Bank, 28% of the Israeli population is aged 0-14. The comparable figure for the UK is 18%, in line with the OECD average. The EU average is only 15%.
    Thanks. That explains nearly all of it. Had no idea Israel was so young
    I presume Israel can do 12 - 15 yr olds now though with the new data ?
    Don’t forget however the teenage generation skews disproportionately to Muslim and Orthodox Jewish groups - where vaccine take up is already at best very low.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    They might want Donbass?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Ukraine?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,395
    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Some of the first equipment Russia moved in was anti drone defences - we might get to see how well they work
    Indeed. My money is on the drones to start with but it will be an interesting test.
    Russia has drones too. Let's hope this is not their shop window.
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    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Not being Sky or BBC
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Their ancestral home of Rus

  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Er.....the Ukraine?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Ukraine turned off the fresh water supply to Crimea after the annexation which is causing big problems for Russia. They might be trying to repeat what seemed to be the original plan at the time of annexing the Donbass and Black Sea territory of Ukraine.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    AlistairM said:

    Watching Macron there was an awful lot of justifying what had happened before and saying he would do the same again. Completely unable to admit having made any mistakes. I'm not surprised but the sheer cheek is mind blowing.

    He's a Frenchman. It's a core skill.
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    ydoethur said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
    We normally stop early on the last day of term. As we have "activities" on a Thursday afternoon it won't make a huge amount of difference educationally this time.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Not being Sky or BBC
    Is that it?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Ukraine?
    Ukraine is not sufficiently valuable to Russia to warrant violent annexation. It is not 1922 any more. The opportunity cost in terms of damaged relationships with the west, the need to police a large and restless country and the fact it is going to need massive investment to recover from years of Russian inspired war, as against some rather transient military glory, would be formidable.

    If they go ahead, it might be a sign there is a power struggle in the Kremlin. But even so, it would be daft.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Ageing right wing men bloviating and harrumphing no doubt.
    Something you just don't get on Sky or the BBC.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
    So there are two possibilities.

    One is that something in the story has got lost in translation. It's for a smallish part of the city, or it's not 1,500 jabs a day.

    The other is that the French government is really talking about doing 1,500 jabs a day in Paris. When we know that they are doing several hundred thousand a day nationwide, with a substantial increase firmly pencilled in for the week after Easter. (We do all know that, don't we?)

    But up onto the leg of the story the usual suspects in the professional and social media mount...

    (No, they're not doing well. But, as when A Level Physics students calculate the mass of a car as 17 ounces, Please try applying some common sense.)
    It a report on France24 and this "mega" centre is the Stade de France...so no mis-translation and its not from some tiny community centre in a back water. 10,000 a week is the aim.

    The Louisa Jordan mass vaccination centre in Glasgow has the capacity to do to 10,000 per day.....

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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Just as there's a market for print journalism beyond the Guardian and Independent, it's assumed there's a market for broadcast journalism alims beyond the BBC and Sky.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership. Competing interpretations of history have turned into a key ingredient of the deepening dispute between Russia and the West and a subject that Putin in particular appears to feel unusually passionate about.
    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/07/01/there-is-no-ukraine-fact-checking-the-kremlins-version-of-ukrainian-history/
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    Are you still in school?
    Ours shut last Friday.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Not being Sky or BBC
    Is that it?
    Should be more than enough...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Cookie said:

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Just as there's a market for print journalism beyond the Guardian and Independent, it's assumed there's a market for broadcast journalism alims beyond the BBC and Sky.
    We'll see.

    I don't watch BBC News or Sky News so I guess I wont be watching GB News either.
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    dixiedean said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    Are you still in school?
    Ours shut last Friday.
    When do you go back?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    AlistairM said:

    Watching Macron there was an awful lot of justifying what had happened before and saying he would do the same again. Completely unable to admit having made any mistakes. I'm not surprised but the sheer cheek is mind blowing.

    He's a Frenchman. It's a core skill.
    True but on the positive side we got a decent song out of it
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=non+jene+regrette+rien&view=detail&mid=4DB893439FFAD729AD374DB893439FFAD729AD37&FORM=VIRE0&ru=/search?q=non+jene+regrette+rien&cvid=83bb3734788046c7a8ef79e8cb17cd6d&aqs=edge.2.69i57j0l6.15242j0j1&pglt=803&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    dixiedean said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    Are you still in school?
    Ours shut last Friday.
    I think most local authorities shut tomorrow. I know Lancashire was earlier. Any other examples?
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,200
    ydoethur said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
    Quite right too you slacker. I’m mean working from home means you’ve been having lots of time off anyway. Bout time you did some actual work...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Scott_xP said:

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
    Back to the Kingdom of England ?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_xP said:

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
    You suggesting Britain without Scotland is no longer Great? It may not be United, but c'mon now....
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
    Quite right too you slacker. I’m mean working from home means you’ve been having lots of time off anyway. Bout time you did some actual work...
    Says somebody whose industry is still working from home... :smile:
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    France is reporting 59,038 new cases, but some of them might be delayed from yesterday.
This discussion has been closed.