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New Ipsos “Vaccine Passport” polling finds strong support across a wide range of activities – politi

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....

    The centre I just went to, one of several hundred in Maryland, which as a State has a population of half the Paris Metro area, is doing 1,000 vaccinations a day. It was incredibly well organized, from stewards directing traffic into the underground parking lot, to parking spaces, and at each 25 yards or so along the way from car to registration to injection to observation.

    This is not even one of the mass vaccination centers, of which there are 6 in the state.

    Montgomery Co, population 1.1m to Paris Metro's 12.6m, is doing between 4,500 and 8,500 total doses a day. So 1,500 for the new centre does not feel like much at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Ukraine turned off the fresh water supply to Crimea after the annexation which is causing big problems for Russia. They might be trying to repeat what seemed to be the original plan at the time of annexing the Donbass and Black Sea territory of Ukraine.
    There are electrical supply issues too
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    I missed that Brazil had its worst ever day for deaths yesterday, 3,688

    Horrendous and apparently unrelenting
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited March 2021
    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    dixiedean said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    Are you still in school?
    Ours shut last Friday.
    When do you go back?
    12 April.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Leon said:

    I missed that Brazil had its worst ever day for deaths yesterday, 3,688

    Horrendous and apparently unrelenting

    Worse news....new variant, mix of SA and other Brazilian variants.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,203
    Leon said:

    I missed that Brazil had its worst ever day for deaths yesterday, 3,688

    Horrendous and apparently unrelenting

    They're brewing up new variants too...
    Tbh I wouldn't let anyone in from there. For any reason whatsoever.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
    Quite right too you slacker. I’m mean working from home means you’ve been having lots of time off anyway. Bout time you did some actual work...
    Says somebody whose industry is still working from home... :smile:
    Nope, been on campus mostly for about 5 weeks. Lab classes and research. It’s been nice.
    To be serious hope you enjoy a good Easter break.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
  • dixiedean said:

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Ageing right wing men bloviating and harrumphing no doubt.
    Something you just don't get on Sky or the BBC.
    Have you not seen the female journalist who have joined the Channel

    Maybe reserve judgment until it broadcasts

    Rosie Wright of Euronews, Kirsty Gallagher and Michelle Dewberry say hi
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I can't be the only one who wants @Dura_Ace 's comical take on the Russia/Ukraine situation?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    edited March 2021
    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1377333374029852675?s=20

    COVID across Europe is heating up like the weather....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    I missed that Brazil had its worst ever day for deaths yesterday, 3,688

    Horrendous and apparently unrelenting

    They're brewing up new variants too...
    Tbh I wouldn't let anyone in from there. For any reason whatsoever.
    I'd also extend that to any country still operating direct flights to and from Brazil, even for repatriation purposes.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Leon said:

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
    But how many British people actually watch news channels routinely and how many viewers do they need for it to be viable?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
    I don't see it. There are plenty of personalities on YouTube who fill that void. I think the ship has sailed on the idea of a major news channel aping this slant.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031
    So, GB News. Let's focus on what matters. Who are their weather presenters?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Now about those cricket matches with 60,000 fans

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1377339348744429572?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....

    The centre I just went to, one of several hundred in Maryland, which as a State has a population of half the Paris Metro area, is doing 1,000 vaccinations a day. It was incredibly well organized, from stewards directing traffic into the underground parking lot, to parking spaces, and at each 25 yards or so along the way from car to registration to injection to observation.

    This is not even one of the mass vaccination centers, of which there are 6 in the state.

    Montgomery Co, population 1.1m to Paris Metro's 12.6m, is doing between 4,500 and 8,500 total doses a day. So 1,500 for the new centre does not feel like much at all.
    The speed at which America is now vaccinating is truly stunning. Would this have happened under Trump? Presumably some of the planning was in place.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited March 2021

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    Kay Burley viewing figures were also very poor, and as for Andrew Neil's figures the channel has not started broadcasting yet so we need to wait and see
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,892
    This may have no significance but last Sunday there was a by-election in Donetsk for the Ukrainian National Assembly which was won by a candidate from a pro-Russian party called Poriadok. This seems a revival of an old party also called Poriadok which was dissolved in 2013.

    Poriadok means "Reforms and Order" (apparently).

    https://ukranews.com/en/news/765799-dobropillia-mayor-aksionov-wins-by-election-of-mp-in-constituency-50-of-donetsk-region-after-count
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
    It's their "near abroad". Pretty deliberate and well rehearsed imo.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I don't see how Putin would dare invade the Ukraine when Joe Biden has made such a strong start as leader of the free world, and when the European Union provides such a united and determined bulwark against Russian aggression.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Hence the possibility of seizing territory around the other side of the Sea of Azov. Long term though it seems odd that they don't just seek to build such supply infrastructure via Kerch on the eastern side.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    Are you still in school?
    Ours shut last Friday.
    When do you go back?
    12 April.
    A week before us then.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I don't see how Putin would dare invade the Ukraine when Joe Biden has made such a strong start as leader of the free world, and when the European Union provides such a united and determined bulwark against Russian aggression.

    I assume this is bants?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,238

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
    So there are two possibilities.

    One is that something in the story has got lost in translation. It's for a smallish part of the city, or it's not 1,500 jabs a day.

    The other is that the French government is really talking about doing 1,500 jabs a day in Paris. When we know that they are doing several hundred thousand a day nationwide, with a substantial increase firmly pencilled in for the week after Easter. (We do all know that, don't we?)

    But up onto the leg of the story the usual suspects in the professional and social media mount...

    (No, they're not doing well. But, as when A Level Physics students calculate the mass of a car as 17 ounces, Please try applying some common sense.)
    It a report on France24 and this "mega" centre is the Stade de France...so no mis-translation and its not from some tiny community centre in a back water. 10,000 a week is the aim.

    The Louisa Jordan mass vaccination centre in Glasgow has the capacity to do to 10,000 per day.....

    This one, presumably:

    https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210323-stade-de-france-supersite-to-ramp-up-paris-region-s-sluggish-vaccination-drive

    The aim is to offer 10,000 daily jabs, starting in early April....

    Maybe 1500 an hour got mangled to 1500 a day.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    Is it possible that, having essentially got away with the annexation of Crimea, they might decide to roll across the whole Russian-speaking half of the country, link up with Transnistria and gobble up the lot?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putinlotf o needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
    It's their "near abroad". Pretty deliberate and well rehearsed imo.

    Russian GDP per capita: $11,500

    Ukraine GDP per capita: $3,500

    A Russian takeover might be quite popular with some Ukrainians, just as it was with a lot of Crimeans
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Some of the first equipment Russia moved in was anti drone defences - we might get to see how well they work
    Indeed. My money is on the drones to start with but it will be an interesting test.
    Russia has drones too. Let's hope this is not their shop window.
    What we need to learn, ideally before our strategic review is over, is whether war has been reduced to a slightly less subtle version of Call of Duty run by spotty teenagers a long way from the action or whether there is still room for human beings who can survive more than a few hours on the battlefront.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
    So there are two possibilities.

    One is that something in the story has got lost in translation. It's for a smallish part of the city, or it's not 1,500 jabs a day.

    The other is that the French government is really talking about doing 1,500 jabs a day in Paris. When we know that they are doing several hundred thousand a day nationwide, with a substantial increase firmly pencilled in for the week after Easter. (We do all know that, don't we?)

    But up onto the leg of the story the usual suspects in the professional and social media mount...

    (No, they're not doing well. But, as when A Level Physics students calculate the mass of a car as 17 ounces, Please try applying some common sense.)
    It a report on France24 and this "mega" centre is the Stade de France...so no mis-translation and its not from some tiny community centre in a back water. 10,000 a week is the aim.

    The Louisa Jordan mass vaccination centre in Glasgow has the capacity to do to 10,000 per day.....

    This one, presumably:

    https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210323-stade-de-france-supersite-to-ramp-up-paris-region-s-sluggish-vaccination-drive

    The aim is to offer 10,000 daily jabs, starting in early April....

    Maybe 1500 an hour got mangled to 1500 a day.
    Fair enough...I did say I didn't think that was very many.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    Yep

    And now this

    https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1377337532673748994
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    DavidL said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....

    The centre I just went to, one of several hundred in Maryland, which as a State has a population of half the Paris Metro area, is doing 1,000 vaccinations a day. It was incredibly well organized, from stewards directing traffic into the underground parking lot, to parking spaces, and at each 25 yards or so along the way from car to registration to injection to observation.

    This is not even one of the mass vaccination centers, of which there are 6 in the state.

    Montgomery Co, population 1.1m to Paris Metro's 12.6m, is doing between 4,500 and 8,500 total doses a day. So 1,500 for the new centre does not feel like much at all.
    The speed at which America is now vaccinating is truly stunning. Would this have happened under Trump? *Presumably some of the planning was in place*
    🤣.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
    England
    Wales
    And
    Northern
    Ireland

    EWANISTAN?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Paris's new vaccination centre will open next week and do 1,500 jabs a day."

    That isn't very many....
    So there are two possibilities.

    One is that something in the story has got lost in translation. It's for a smallish part of the city, or it's not 1,500 jabs a day.

    The other is that the French government is really talking about doing 1,500 jabs a day in Paris. When we know that they are doing several hundred thousand a day nationwide, with a substantial increase firmly pencilled in for the week after Easter. (We do all know that, don't we?)

    But up onto the leg of the story the usual suspects in the professional and social media mount...

    (No, they're not doing well. But, as when A Level Physics students calculate the mass of a car as 17 ounces, Please try applying some common sense.)
    It a report on France24 and this "mega" centre is the Stade de France...so no mis-translation and its not from some tiny community centre in a back water. 10,000 a week is the aim.

    The Louisa Jordan mass vaccination centre in Glasgow has the capacity to do to 10,000 per day.....

    This one, presumably:

    https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210323-stade-de-france-supersite-to-ramp-up-paris-region-s-sluggish-vaccination-drive

    The aim is to offer 10,000 daily jabs, starting in early April....

    Maybe 1500 an hour got mangled to 1500 a day.
    Fair enough...I did say I didn't think that was very many.
    Edit :- Here is video where the head of operations says 10,000 a week...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2388782/Vaccination-centre-opens-Stade-France.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490

    And here

    The stadium will start vaccinating people on April 6. It is aiming to inoculate around 10,000 a week, said Duroselle, and will employ 150 staff each day.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-france-vaccination/iconic-french-sports-stadium-prepares-to-be-vaccination-centre-idUSKBN2BN2VG

    Maybe he misspoke? Although 150 staff is nothing. I think its impossible to do 10,000 a day with only 150 staff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    I don't see how Putin would dare invade the Ukraine when Joe Biden has made such a strong start as leader of the free world, and when the European Union provides such a united and determined bulwark against Russian aggression.

    LOL. Of course the Biden family seems to have a lot of commercial interests in the Ukraine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Don't know if it's been mentioned downthread, but France is closing down schools. Sad for them, but likely to be the start of many contrasts between the UK and EU which will look good for the government

    I hate to break it to you but schools in the UK are closing down for a couple of weeks as well; in fact I finish shielding tomorrow so will be back in school tomorrow before stopping at lunch until mid April.
    You stop at lunch? We have to go right through to 4pm!
    Quite right too you slacker. I’m mean working from home means you’ve been having lots of time off anyway. Bout time you did some actual work...
    Says somebody whose industry is still working from home... :smile:
    Nope, been on campus mostly for about 5 weeks. Lab classes and research. It’s been nice.
    To be serious hope you enjoy a good Easter break.
    Thank you. Likewise if you’re still working.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    Is it possible that, having essentially got away with the annexation of Crimea, they might decide to roll across the whole Russian-speaking half of the country, link up with Transnistria and gobble up the lot?
    Hopefully not.
    Joy!
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
    What do you mean, ‘now?’ Hungary, Prague and Afghanistan wave hallo.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    Cookie said:

    Serious question: What is GB News's value proposition? Is their main selling point being an "anti-woke" channel?

    Just as there's a market for print journalism beyond the Guardian and Independent, it's assumed there's a market for broadcast journalism alims beyond the BBC and Sky.
    We'll see.

    I don't watch BBC News or Sky News so I guess I wont be watching GB News either.
    Nor do I. Do I not watch it because it's left wing or because I just don't watch telly? Or is it to mitigate the danger of inadvertently punching the telly if Hiw Edwards or Victoria Derbyshire are on? Dunno. I expect I'll grudgingly give it a go. But why would I look to the telly to inform me when I have the combined brains of pb.com?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    Is it possible that, having essentially got away with the annexation of Crimea, they might decide to roll across the whole Russian-speaking half of the country, link up with Transnistria and gobble up the lot?
    Everything depends on whether anyone explains to Putin that he will pay on the battlefield. Putin, despite his reputation, isn't that bold if you make it clear you aren't having it but you have to tell him that and mean it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I don't see how Putin would dare invade the Ukraine when Joe Biden has made such a strong start as leader of the free world, and when the European Union provides such a united and determined bulwark against Russian aggression.

    I assume this is bants?
    Well that's what CNN is implying, I dunno.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    You misunderstand my point. Anyone can go for a swim in a river or lake. Good luck to them, provided that no environmental damage is caused.

    It is the label of 'wild swimming' that is restricted to the Tobias and Jemima set.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Embarrassing from England
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putin needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
    What do you mean, ‘now?’ Hungary, Prague and Afghanistan wave hallo.
    Russian special forces currently seem to be busy in Venezuela
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.

    The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Scott_xP said:

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
    England
    Wales
    And
    Northern
    Ireland

    EWANISTAN?
    You and I?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    If the Turks using drones play a significant role, as they did is Azerbaijan, Russia could end up with such a bloody nose that Putin just might be in trouble.
    Who wants what here? Does Russia actually want to annex the Ukraine? Or does it just want its enemies to look feeble? And what does Turkey want? Presumably the west doesn't have a strategic interest in the Ukraine but doesn't want Russia to get the impression it can do what it wants.
    Putinlotf o needs to play the hard man for domestic purposes. Azerbaijan was a tad embarrassing in that respect. The EU doesn't want an unstable Ukraine on its doorstep but no one gives a monkey what the EU wants. Turkey seems pissed off with the way Russia is treating some Turkish minorities in the Stans and seems absolutely up for the fight. Who the hell cares what Ukrainians want? Its irrelevant.
    America shipped in military equipment via Odessa a little while back
    From the 60's to the OO's the US was bled dry fighting largely pointless wars in far away places that someone with an O level in Geography had decided were strategically important. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is now making similar mistakes.
    It's their "near abroad". Pretty deliberate and well rehearsed imo.

    Russian GDP per capita: $11,500

    Ukraine GDP per capita: $3,500

    A Russian takeover might be quite popular with some Ukrainians, just as it was with a lot of Crimeans
    The same way Craigavon’s mooted invasion of Ireland in 1940 would have been quite popular with business in the Free State?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited March 2021
    ping said:

    Embarrassing from England

    England always play like they are doing the traditional Friday afternoon formation / tactics run through. Not urgency, just sideways, sideways, sideways...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    Chameleon said:

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
    Crimea starting to feel very Sudetenland-ish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    ping said:

    Embarrassing from England

    At the moment Germany are 1 nil down, at home..... to North Macedonia

    So it could be worse
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    You misunderstand my point. Anyone can go for a swim in a river or lake. Good luck to them, provided that no environmental damage is caused.

    It is the label of 'wild swimming' that is restricted to the Tobias and Jemima set.
    It really isn’t. It’s a pan-European activity and has several books for people who want to explore and find amazing places, often with interesting and sometimes challenging walk-ins.

    But you sneer away.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Embarrassing from England

    At the moment Germany are 1 nil down, at home..... to North Macedonia

    So it could be worse
    LOL 62 minutes in. What on earth?

    1-1 a penalty. Saying nothing.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031
    There used to be a thing called 'camping'.

    This has gone through a split, and there are now two distinct things known as 'wild camping' and 'glamping'.

    The main difference would appear to be where you have to perform your morning evacuation.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    So, GB News. Let's focus on what matters. Who are their weather presenters?

    If they give that gig to Lucy Verasamy then I’ll be watching.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.

    The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
    But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,995

    Scott_xP said:

    Gonna need a new logo if Scotland goes indy. Not that I am suggesting that might colour their coverage...

    Gonna need a new name as well but...
    England
    Wales
    And
    Northern
    Ireland

    EWANISTAN?
    No possibility of a k being squeezed in?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
    Crimea starting to feel very Sudetenland-ish.
    That would mean someone is very, very guilty of appeasement. It must be that Donald Trump, he's thick as thieves with those Russians!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Yes, but it’s unlikely we would respond militarily. More probably it would be additional sanctions, but that in itself wouldn’t be a light matter for Russia.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    We could but I think post-brexit the appetite here will be minimal and that means there's no one bringing the US to the table.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212

    I have literally no idea what is going on in that tweet.
    Cultural appropriation by the Chinese.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    I would have thought this is one for a Western cyber-hack/attack on Russian forces, including special forces, drones and proxies for Ukrainian forces if needs be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
    Crimea starting to feel very Sudetenland-ish.
    That would mean someone is very, very guilty of appeasement. It must be that Donald Trump, he's thick as thieves with those Russians!

    Well, he and Putin are both thick and thieves.

    The difference is that Putin actually did steal Georgia.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    ydoethur said:

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Yes, but it’s unlikely we would respond militarily. More probably it would be additional sanctions, but that in itself wouldn’t be a light matter for Russia.
    I don't think Putin gives a toss about sanctions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    There used to be a thing called 'camping'.

    This has gone through a split, and there are now two distinct things known as 'wild camping' and 'glamping'.

    The main difference would appear to be where you have to perform your morning evacuation.

    Also rubbish.

    Wild camping is camping outside a campsite, in Scotland, Dartmoor or elsewhere (although it’s illegal in most of England).

    Glamping is in a ready made tent with proper beds.

    There is a whole rump of camping which is on a campsite and neither wild or glamping.

    So again, you are talking shite.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    ydoethur said:

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Yes, but it’s unlikely we would respond militarily. More probably it would be additional sanctions, but that in itself wouldn’t be a light matter for Russia.
    Yes, the EU will be really pushing for sanctions on Russian gas exports, just as soon as that new pipe is finished. Honest.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Surely it would have been much more likely under Trump, who would have given to Putin as payback for helping him win the Presidency.

    As CNN told us incessantly and still maintains, right?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    No. I have already explained the nature of the activity. It is a subgroup of swimming because it involves seeking out swimming spots in the wild rather than regulated places. It really isn’t hard to understand.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.

    The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
    But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
    We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.

    And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
    Crimea starting to feel very Sudetenland-ish.
    That would mean someone is very, very guilty of appeasement. It must be that Donald Trump, he's thick as thieves with those Russians!

    Well, he and Putin are both thick and thieves.

    The difference is that Putin actually did steal Georgia.
    And Trump lost it.

  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    There used to be a thing called 'camping'.

    This has gone through a split, and there are now two distinct things known as 'wild camping' and 'glamping'.

    The main difference would appear to be where you have to perform your morning evacuation.

    Also rubbish.

    Wild camping is camping outside a campsite, in Scotland, Dartmoor or elsewhere (although it’s illegal in most of England).

    Glamping is in a ready made tent with proper beds.

    There is a whole rump of camping which is on a campsite and neither wild or glamping.

    So again, you are talking shite.
    LOL, you really seem to be getting quite worked up about this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.

    The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
    But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
    The EU is fortunate that Russia is such a paper tiger with no economy of substance to back a sustained war effort. Because they are seriously short of capable friends right now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    No. I have already explained the nature of the activity. It is a subgroup of swimming because it involves seeking out swimming spots in the wild rather than regulated places. It really isn’t hard to understand.
    Is swimming at the beach wild swimming as well?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,542
    edited March 2021
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    Would Russia actually be stupid enough to go for a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?

    What would they gain from it?
    Ukraine turned off the fresh water supply to Crimea after the annexation which is causing big problems for Russia. They might be trying to repeat what seemed to be the original plan at the time of annexing the Donbass and Black Sea territory of Ukraine.
    There are electrical supply issues too
    I have no views on Ukraine, though I rather hope western leaders (and NATO) have got it all worked out, just like in July 1914, but if you take a lingering look at any historical atlas of Europe it becomes pretty obvious that a biggish chuck of the current Ukraine spent quite a few centuries as part of Russian territory. Is it possible that Ukraine is, so to speak, omnis divisa in partes duo



  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    ydoethur said:

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Yes, but it’s unlikely we would respond militarily. More probably it would be additional sanctions, but that in itself wouldn’t be a light matter for Russia.
    I don't think Putin gives a toss about sanctions.
    Europe is so reliant on Russian gas that they won't dare put up any significant sanctions.

    I'm really interested to see how this turns out, it's the first time the EU will essentially be fending for itself without the UK and most likely without the US who seem to just want to forget that Europe exists.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Leon said:

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
    I think it'll be very popular.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I do wonder how many PBers get through life, their being triggered by a perfectly reasonable and benign term such as wild swimming.

    Absolutely bizarre.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    Is it possible that, having essentially got away with the annexation of Crimea, they might decide to roll across the whole Russian-speaking half of the country, link up with Transnistria and gobble up the lot?
    Everything depends on whether anyone explains to Putin that he will pay on the battlefield. Putin, despite his reputation, isn't that bold if you make it clear you aren't having it but you have to tell him that and mean it.
    There's the problem.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I do wonder how many PBers get through life, their being triggered by a perfectly reasonable and benign term such as wild swimming.

    Absolutely bizarre.

    Not triggered. It's just a very silly concept. It is not wild swimming. It is swimming in the sea, or lake, or river, or pond or whatever. You seem to be the only one getting worked up, or should I say triggered.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    The only person I know who does "wild swimming", although they tend to call it "open water swimming", is a salt of the earth type from a Durham pit village.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    RobD said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    No. I have already explained the nature of the activity. It is a subgroup of swimming because it involves seeking out swimming spots in the wild rather than regulated places. It really isn’t hard to understand.
    Is swimming at the beach wild swimming as well?
    Only if there isn't an ice cream stall.
  • Leon said:

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
    I think it'll be very popular.
    I think there is definitely an opening. Was interesting to see earlier how openly hostile the BBC was to the race relations report commissioned by Boris.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    On Russia/Ukraine, from Reddit:

    "Russian made a huge strategic mistake when they took Crimeria, they didn't secure the water supply for the region. Ukraine promptly turned off the canal which supplied a majority of drinking water to the region.
    If Russia does invade it will be to secure this water supply."

    No idea on its accuracy but it's interesting.

    EDIT: I see @williamglenn already mentioned this. My bad.

    Makes sense, push in, claiming that you want the water supply. When Biden & the EU reacts meekly, most of the rest of Ukraine comes on-menu..
    Crimea starting to feel very Sudetenland-ish.
    That would mean someone is very, very guilty of appeasement. It must be that Donald Trump, he's thick as thieves with those Russians!

    Well, he and Putin are both thick and thieves.

    The difference is that Putin actually did steal Georgia.
    And Trump lost it.

    I think you’ll find Putin still has the piece of Georgia that he stole:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Leon said:

    I can't see how GB News is financially viable. Sky News isn't and it is established alternative to the BBC, but even with the pandemic raging, Fat Head, one of the "star" names on the channel, his show is was getting as low as 60k viewers during a time when everybody is sat at home in lockdown last year.

    They are betting that a news channel with an obvious political slant to the right will be unusually popular

    They might just be right. Every other news channel is left or centre-left, if it is anything. Some are outrageously left: like C4 News.

    There is definitely an opening
    I think it'll be very popular.
    I think there is definitely an opening. Was interesting to see earlier how openly hostile the BBC was to the race relations report commissioned by Boris.
    There might be an opening but that doesn't mean it's going to be financially viable.

    Like I said, who regularly watches news channels?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lots of people love wild swimming and enjoy articles and books about wild swimming. I own several. That the Guardian shouldn't publish features on wild swimming because a few nesh PBers don't like wild swimming is the epitome of an 'Only On PB' moment.

    People have strong opinions on "wild swimming"?
    Never heard of wild swimming before. What's the difference between wild swimming and — just swimming?
    You have to be middle class to go wild swimming.
    Nope. Just open-minded and willing to explore. I can see why you might sneer.
    I think the point is that what you are calling "wild-swimming" is what was called "swimming" when I was growing up in Devon...
    It’s a perfectly useful cypher for a popular activity. The books are superb, GPS coordinates across France and Italy for absolutely amazing swimming holes that you would have no chance of finding otherwise. Of course, the pipe and slipper brigade on here will sneer, but they haven’t found chalk pools in the Tuscan interior in a July heatwave, have they?
    But why call it wild swimming? Like Fysics_Teacher, as a kid in Devon, we'd just walk up the River Plym until we found a pool deep enough to jump in. F**king cold, that water from Dartmoor, though, even in mid summer. Plenty of toes turning blue if you stayed in too long. Made The Hoe in winter seem positively warm.
    What do you suggest they call the books?

    ‘Swimming’ by JRR Hartley?

    This is the most Only on PB discussion for a while.

    FFS.
    So all it is is a marketing ploy to sell books, but now it's supposed to be a real thing? FFS
    No. I have already explained the nature of the activity. It is a subgroup of swimming because it involves seeking out swimming spots in the wild rather than regulated places. It really isn’t hard to understand.
    Is swimming at the beach wild swimming as well?
    Not to my mind, no. Although hard to access beaches/coves can qualify. I mean, buy the book and try it.

    If you don’t like it, fine, but the PB wild swimming snowflake brigade has a large crossover with those that spend hours moaning about cyclists.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2021

    I do wonder how many PBers get through life, their being triggered by a perfectly reasonable and benign term such as wild swimming.

    Absolutely bizarre.

    They’ll be calling real tennis posh next!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031
    So if I go for a walk on Ilkley Moor is that 'wild walking'?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can we (NATO/The West) do anything to contest a full-scale Russian takeover of Ukraine?

    I wonder if Putin might just go for it, you know.

    Yes, but it’s unlikely we would respond militarily. More probably it would be additional sanctions, but that in itself wouldn’t be a light matter for Russia.
    Yes, the EU will be really pushing for sanctions on Russian gas exports, just as soon as that new pipe is finished. Honest.
    In the respect that the EU has a foreign policy at all, it is a catastrophe of the first order. It has handed an unprincipled and arch enemy serious leverage and untold billions in energy contracts with no thought to how this might be used.

    Meanwhile its unbelievably stupid vaccine policy has alienated a key ally and a power that would be absolutely instrumental in co-ordinating any Western response in Britain.

    Von Der Leyen, Merkel and Macron could not, simply could not have played this any worse
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Floater said:

    Yokes said:

    On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.

    Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.

    Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.

    Its fair to say the US is worried.

    I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
    It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.

    US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
    The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.

    The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
    But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
    We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.

    And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
    The Ukrainian Military did a press conference about a week ago - it struck me that one of the 2 flags in view was of NATO.

    Wonder if NATO ok'd that
This discussion has been closed.