Not really, the EU pushed an agenda of ensuring the UK was a third country. This is one of the consequences of that and now they have to lie in that bed they've made. In fact I'd suggest it's in our longer term interest to make them lie in it. We're an island, our interests are not under threat, we have nothing to gain and a lot to lose from intervening here.
You are Lord Halifax and I claim my £5.
Russia will not stop with Ukraine, first it was Georgia, then the Crimea.
Appeasement will not work.
Absolutely correct but the UK is more than entitled to demand a huge apology and Von der Leyen's head on a plate in return for protecting its borders with our blood and treasure. Such as we have left.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
I also love Edinburgh, it is one of my favourite cities in the UK alongside Bath and Oxford.
Edinburgh also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 by a comfortable margin, Glasgow voted to leave
It is also highly anti-Brexit, having been promised that voting No in 2014 would mean staying in Europe.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
I am disturbed by the idea of the NATO members of the EU not treating the UK as a member of NATO.
Genuine question: How are they doing that?
By seeking to exclude us from defence and space related research on security grounds
But aren't they doing that to other non EU/EEA NATO countries?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? I believe Norway and Iceland are the only two countries that meet that description, and neither are major contributors of the scale of the UK to military and space technology upon which the defence of NATO is predicated.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
Please no. Banter one day can read very ill to another person or on another day.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
Possibly. NATO really should have been wound up in 1989.
Really? Putin is far more of a threat than Gorbachev or Yeltsin were.
He's a nuisance. He's an obnoxious, murderous, kleptomaniac but a genuine threat? No chance. Economy smaller than Belgium, wholly dependent upon commodity exports, shrinking population with a very serious drink problem. Its a convenient fantasy for our defence industry but really...
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
I also love Edinburgh, it is one of my favourite cities in the UK alongside Bath and Oxford.
Edinburgh also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 by a comfortable margin, Glasgow voted to leave
It is also highly anti-Brexit, having been promised that voting No in 2014 would mean staying in Europe.
No contradiction necessarily, Edinburgh South elected the only Labour MP in Scotland in 2019 who is as anti Brexit as he is anti Scottish independence.
Edinburgh West similarly elected a unionist LD who was anti Brexit
On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.
Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.
Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.
Its fair to say the US is worried.
I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.
US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.
The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.
And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
Why do we? Honestly, I've realised over the last year that we are an island nation, what happens on the continent isn't our concern, they made that abundantly clear to us after 2016.
The biggest threat to the UK isn't Russia, it's China. Chinese companies buying up UK IP and swathes of UK industry, making key investments in our infrastructure and national security infrastructure. China is getting its hooks into the UK to an extent that we won't be able to get rid of them without incurring huge damage and cost.
Russia isn't going to invade the UK. It has little to no leverage over the UK. We have no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending Europe any more.
A very complacent attitude.
Yes China threatens our infrastucture, as it does most of the West but it is over the other side of the world and on a different continent and not a military threat to us domestically.
Russia is part of Europe and the largest military power in Europe, only NATO and our nuclear weapons deter Putin from invading western Europe, including us
Not really, the EU pushed an agenda of ensuring the UK was a third country. This is one of the consequences of that and now they have to lie in that bed they've made. In fact I'd suggest it's in our longer term interest to make them lie in it. We're an island, our interests are not under threat, we have nothing to gain and a lot to lose from intervening here.
Anyone considered the possibility that the Covid situation in Russia is an order of magnitude worse than the Russians are publically letting on, and there are political concerns as a result? And what's going on in Ukraine may be a desperate response to distract/rally public opinion against external enemies.
Should we read anything into the fact this is an interview in the Telegraph who have been probably the most anti-lockdown / anti-OTT rules during the pandemic...showing a bit of leg to the Telegraph readership.
Anyone considered the possibility that the Covid situation in Russia is an order of magnitude worse than the Russians are publically letting on, and there are political concerns as a result? And what's going on in Ukraine may be a desperate response to distract/rally public opinion against external enemies.
Only an order of magnitude worse, doing better than I thought ;-)
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
Yup. If Labour vote against it’s dead in the water IMO. Lab+Lib+CRG=government defeat. I would like to see it go to a vote and the government be humiliated.
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
I also love Edinburgh, it is one of my favourite cities in the UK alongside Bath and Oxford.
Edinburgh also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 by a comfortable margin, Glasgow voted to leave
It is also highly anti-Brexit, having been promised that voting No in 2014 would mean staying in Europe.
No contradiction necessarily, Edinburgh South elected the only Labour MP in Scotland in 2019 who is as anti Brexit as he is anti Scottish independence.
Edinburgh West similarly elected a unionist LD who was anti Brexit
On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.
Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.
Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.
Its fair to say the US is worried.
I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.
US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.
The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.
And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
Why do we? Honestly, I've realised over the last year that we are an island nation, what happens on the continent isn't our concern, they made that abundantly clear to us after 2016.
The biggest threat to the UK isn't Russia, it's China. Chinese companies buying up UK IP and swathes of UK industry, making key investments in our infrastructure and national security infrastructure. China is getting its hooks into the UK to an extent that we won't be able to get rid of them without incurring huge damage and cost.
Russia isn't going to invade the UK. It has little to no leverage over the UK. We have no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending Europe any more.
I agree China is a problem. However, Russia regularly makes illegal incursions into our air space and sends submarines into our territorial waters, and has also used chemical weapons on our soil; it wants to dominate the land, sea and air all around us so it can dominate us too. I very much see it as a threat.
Besides, in our globalised age I don't think there's any such thing as defending ourselves at the border anymore. That's not how hostile modern states defeat you anymore. Those days are gone.
Sure, you have to box clever - and use military force as a last resort - but you have to engage with their geopolitical machinations wherever they might meaningfully affect your fundamental interests, and those of your allies you depend upon.
Boxing clever, in this case, is making Europe lie in the bed it made wrt the UK-EU relationship. It pushed us out to third country status and now it needs to learn the consequences of that decision. It's still pushing us away with moves to block UK research from defence facing grants and the stupid decisions on Galileo.
Again, why should we come to the aid of those who have proven they wouldn't do the same for us and are actively trying to punish us? The reality is that they'll resent us for getting involved but also resent us if we don't. Better not to spend our time, effort and money on it.
The EU is irrelevant in this. It's in our national interest to stand up to and contain Russia, and to help those Eastern European countries - like Poland, the Baltic States and Romania and Bulgaria - that could potentially end up facing off directly against Russia.
Also, I have a wife from Eastern Europe. She really doesn't want to go through this all over again. And I don't want to live again with the shame of being a Briton who could have helped stop it but did nothing.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
I also love Edinburgh, it is one of my favourite cities in the UK alongside Bath and Oxford.
Edinburgh also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 by a comfortable margin, Glasgow voted to leave
It is also highly anti-Brexit, having been promised that voting No in 2014 would mean staying in Europe.
No contradiction necessarily, Edinburgh South elected the only Labour MP in Scotland in 2019 who is as anti Brexit as he is anti Scottish independence.
Edinburgh West similarly elected a unionist LD who was anti Brexit
And the other 3 MPs are SNP MPs.
When you put it like that burning it down is starting to sound quite reasonable.
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
Yup. If Labour vote against it’s dead in the water IMO. Lab+Lib+CRG=government defeat. I would like to see it go to a vote and the government be humiliated.
Spain announced today its vaccine passport scheme will be ready for June as part of the EU wide scheme
I thought Germany already had gone to 12 weeks for AZ and 6 for Pfizer? Canada has gone to 4 months. Both when they are not suspending their programmes on flimsy evidence though.
That's facts, and facts are boring. Like the actual delivery and usage stats.
Much more fun to swallow Putinesque trolling hook, line and sinker. Especially if it confirms your pre-existing belief that Johnson-style Brexit was a good idea.
(To save time: yes, UK vaccination has gone extremely well, EU vaccination has gone mediocrely at best and many statements by Commission and National politicians are undignified to the point of bizarreness. But that doesn't mean that the issue should be treated in the same way that Dilyn the Dog was alleged to treat the leg of the PM's former Chief Adviser. Which some people are.)
The facts are not as simple as you make out though. Yes Germany has extended the gap between doses, it hasn't got the same utilisation of vaccines that we have though becuase they still set aside 50% of all doses on delivery. The gain of our policy is the extended gap coupled with just in time delivery of vaccines. They're doing the first one but not the second one. It's a bit pointless.
As usual when commenting on Germany you are wrong.
Anyone considered the possibility that the Covid situation in Russia is an order of magnitude worse than the Russians are publically letting on, and there are political concerns as a result? And what's going on in Ukraine may be a desperate response to distract/rally public opinion against external enemies.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
The problem with that is would anyone notice:?
That'd be your Unionist Sturmtruppen taken out though. Now Brexit has turned the Edinburgh bourgeoise against you, who'll be left to fight when the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics comes to pass?
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
Yup. If Labour vote against it’s dead in the water IMO. Lab+Lib+CRG=government defeat. I would like to see it go to a vote and the government be humiliated.
Whips wouldn't be doing their job if it goes to a vote against those odds.
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
This has made my evening.
Cracking day today. Wrote a political leaflet, then pizza and beer in the garden with a mate I haven't seen properly for 6 months. And now news that the Govt will probably not be able to get Vax passports through.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
I also love Edinburgh, it is one of my favourite cities in the UK alongside Bath and Oxford.
Edinburgh also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 by a comfortable margin, Glasgow voted to leave
It is also highly anti-Brexit, having been promised that voting No in 2014 would mean staying in Europe.
No contradiction necessarily, Edinburgh South elected the only Labour MP in Scotland in 2019 who is as anti Brexit as he is anti Scottish independence.
Edinburgh West similarly elected a unionist LD who was anti Brexit
And the other 3 MPs are SNP MPs.
So only 60% of Edinburgh MPs are SNP then compared to 81% of Scottish MPs as a whole
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
Yup. If Labour vote against it’s dead in the water IMO. Lab+Lib+CRG=government defeat. I would like to see it go to a vote and the government be humiliated.
Spain announced today its vaccine passport scheme will be ready for June as part of the EU wide scheme
Some vaccine passport scheme is inevitable
Europe can do what they want. And it seems as if part of the driver in the rest of Europe might be their low vaccination rates. That's no reason why we have to copy them.
International travel, fine. But not stupid domestic schemes. Especially since it doesn't take much thought to quickly realise that (for their stated purpose) there will be holes in them a mile wide, which leads to the conclusion that the driving forces behind them probably have nothing really to do with Covid at all. As always with these sort of proposals, the official justification is a convenient excuse.
What with Russia threatening Ukraine and China banning non patriots from the Hong Kong legislature, when Boris refuses indyref2 in 2 months time he will look relatively moderate by comparison
The way things are going he could burn Edinburgh to the ground and still look like a moderate.
I wouldn’t give HYUFD any more ideas.
HYUFD is organising a hunt for the person who leaked his plans
Please can we burn the industrial parts of Glasgow to the ground instead? I like Edinburgh and I’m hoping to see some of the festival again this year.
The problem with that is would anyone notice:?
That'd be your Unionist Sturmtruppen taken out though. Now Brexit has turned the Edinburgh bourgeoise against you, who'll be left to fight when the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics comes to pass?
Are you suggesting that Ibrox and its environs should be left standing? Goes against the grain....
That’s the first time Germany have lost a World Cup qualifier since we beat them 5-1 in Munich in 2001 (according to ITV)
What a night that was!!!!
I remember it well. I was on a cal-mac ferry going across to Islay. Shortly after departure the tannoy announced that the score was Germany 1 England 0. Though the match was just drawing to its conclusion as the ferry arrived, strangely the tannoy-announcer had neglected to give any further score updates.
Is Starmer reading different polling to the ones quoted in the thread header?
Labour focus groups telling him something different on vaccine app?
Maybe he's actually capable of thinking past polling headlines and seeing how the implications of "popular" policies can sometimes develop in unpopular directions down the line...
Of course the Government's "get out" will be to stick to the "purely voluntary (and non coercive)" line, which i could live with because i don't expect any businesses to enforce, and there would be no danger of fines and the like.
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
There'll be lots of opposition from around here and onwards, don't you worry. It would have backfired whilst the pandemic was in full swing - all the focus groups say so - but once it's over, game on and bau.
And another thing not to worry about - while I'm in anxiety calming mode - is "vaccine passports" for domestic use in things like pubs and restaurants. There is absolutely no chance of this coming to pass.
Goodness. Has the remote possibility of the Opposition actually opposing the Government just appeared on the far distant horizon?
Let's hope. If Labour are opposed then it opens the door for Tory rebels to force the government to give up on this shite or set a very hard end date and ensure no tracking.
Yup. If Labour vote against it’s dead in the water IMO. Lab+Lib+CRG=government defeat. I would like to see it go to a vote and the government be humiliated.
Spain announced today its vaccine passport scheme will be ready for June as part of the EU wide scheme
Some vaccine passport scheme is inevitable
For international travel sure. Not for English pubs. If Labour vote against it’s a dead duck. Which will be funny.
On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.
Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.
Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.
Its fair to say the US is worried.
I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.
US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.
The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.
And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
Why do we? Honestly, I've realised over the last year that we are an island nation, what happens on the continent isn't our concern, they made that abundantly clear to us after 2016.
The biggest threat to the UK isn't Russia, it's China. Chinese companies buying up UK IP and swathes of UK industry, making key investments in our infrastructure and national security infrastructure. China is getting its hooks into the UK to an extent that we won't be able to get rid of them without incurring huge damage and cost.
Russia isn't going to invade the UK. It has little to no leverage over the UK. We have no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending Europe any more.
I agree China is a problem. However, Russia regularly makes illegal incursions into our air space and sends submarines into our territorial waters, and has also used chemical weapons on our soil; it wants to dominate the land, sea and air all around us so it can dominate us too. I very much see it as a threat.
Besides, in our globalised age I don't think there's any such thing as defending ourselves at the border anymore. That's not how hostile modern states defeat you anymore. Those days are gone.
Sure, you have to box clever - and use military force as a last resort - but you have to engage with their geopolitical machinations wherever they might meaningfully affect your fundamental interests, and those of your allies you depend upon.
Boxing clever, in this case, is making Europe lie in the bed it made wrt the UK-EU relationship. It pushed us out to third country status and now it needs to learn the consequences of that decision. It's still pushing us away with moves to block UK research from defence facing grants and the stupid decisions on Galileo.
Again, why should we come to the aid of those who have proven they wouldn't do the same for us and are actively trying to punish us? The reality is that they'll resent us for getting involved but also resent us if we don't. Better not to spend our time, effort and money on it.
The EU is irrelevant in this. It's in our national interest to stand up to and contain Russia, and to help those Eastern European countries - like Poland, the Baltic States and Romania and Bulgaria - that could potentially end up facing off directly against Russia.
Also, I have a wife from Eastern Europe. She really doesn't want to go through this all over again. And I don't want to live again with the shame of being a Briton who could have helped stop it but did nothing.
The EU is extremely relevant in this. They've pursued a relationship with the UK that has attempted to freeze us out of the security and defence apparatus of Europe. If those Baltic and Eastern Euro nations were as concerned about this as you say then they would have forced the EU to change whatever rules were necessary to keep the UK closely tied in and unblocking our full participation in Galileo, ensuring that the UK isn't frozen out of defence facing research etc...
Ultimately we need to look out for our own interests and set a price for our helping them. Our relationship with the EU is 100% transactional and we must operate on that basis. Treaty changes to be indefinitely included in Galileo and no chance of being frozen out of defence facing research, long term agreement on financial services and easing the border issues for our exports. That's the price.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
I am disturbed by the idea of the NATO members of the EU not treating the UK as a member of NATO.
Genuine question: How are they doing that?
By seeking to exclude us from defence and space related research on security grounds
But aren't they doing that to other non EU/EEA NATO countries?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? I believe Norway and Iceland are the only two countries that meet that description, and neither are major contributors of the scale of the UK to military and space technology upon which the defence of NATO is predicated.
Edit: I meant European non-EU countries
I'm not saying the EU are being smart, but if the UK isn't in the EU, how can it complain about not being allowed access to EU schemes?
I'm loving the specific idea of vaccine passports to visit the soft play. The kids needing a passport too, or what?
Also, let's get these numbers split out by people already offered a vaccine, and by people not yet offered a vaccine. Would be interesting to see the difference in the responses. Can't help but feel that these responses are driven by a load of people going "yep we're already vaxxed, so do whatever the hell you want with it".
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
I am disturbed by the idea of the NATO members of the EU not treating the UK as a member of NATO.
Genuine question: How are they doing that?
By seeking to exclude us from defence and space related research on security grounds
But aren't they doing that to other non EU/EEA NATO countries?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? I believe Norway and Iceland are the only two countries that meet that description, and neither are major contributors of the scale of the UK to military and space technology upon which the defence of NATO is predicated.
Edit: I meant European non-EU countries
I'm not saying the EU are being smart, but if the UK isn't in the EU, how can it complain about not being allowed access to EU schemes?
But why should we come to the aid of a hostile foreign organisation?
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.
Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.
Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.
Its fair to say the US is worried.
I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.
US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.
The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.
And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
Why do we? Honestly, I've realised over the last year that we are an island nation, what happens on the continent isn't our concern, they made that abundantly clear to us after 2016.
The biggest threat to the UK isn't Russia, it's China. Chinese companies buying up UK IP and swathes of UK industry, making key investments in our infrastructure and national security infrastructure. China is getting its hooks into the UK to an extent that we won't be able to get rid of them without incurring huge damage and cost.
Russia isn't going to invade the UK. It has little to no leverage over the UK. We have no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending Europe any more.
I agree China is a problem. However, Russia regularly makes illegal incursions into our air space and sends submarines into our territorial waters, and has also used chemical weapons on our soil; it wants to dominate the land, sea and air all around us so it can dominate us too. I very much see it as a threat.
Besides, in our globalised age I don't think there's any such thing as defending ourselves at the border anymore. That's not how hostile modern states defeat you anymore. Those days are gone.
Sure, you have to box clever - and use military force as a last resort - but you have to engage with their geopolitical machinations wherever they might meaningfully affect your fundamental interests, and those of your allies you depend upon.
Boxing clever, in this case, is making Europe lie in the bed it made wrt the UK-EU relationship. It pushed us out to third country status and now it needs to learn the consequences of that decision. It's still pushing us away with moves to block UK research from defence facing grants and the stupid decisions on Galileo.
Again, why should we come to the aid of those who have proven they wouldn't do the same for us and are actively trying to punish us? The reality is that they'll resent us for getting involved but also resent us if we don't. Better not to spend our time, effort and money on it.
The EU is irrelevant in this. It's in our national interest to stand up to and contain Russia, and to help those Eastern European countries - like Poland, the Baltic States and Romania and Bulgaria - that could potentially end up facing off directly against Russia.
Also, I have a wife from Eastern Europe. She really doesn't want to go through this all over again. And I don't want to live again with the shame of being a Briton who could have helped stop it but did nothing.
The EU is extremely relevant in this. They've pursued a relationship with the UK that has attempted to freeze us out of the security and defence apparatus of Europe. If those Baltic and Eastern Euro nations were as concerned about this as you say then they would have forced the EU to change whatever rules were necessary to keep the UK closely tied in and unblocking our full participation in Galileo, ensuring that the UK isn't frozen out of defence facing research etc...
Ultimately we need to look out for our own interests and set a price for our helping them. Our relationship with the EU is 100% transactional and we must operate on that basis. Treaty changes to be indefinitely included in Galileo and no chance of being frozen out of defence facing research, long term agreement on financial services and easing the border issues for our exports. That's the price.
To be fair i've read that there has been quite a bit of opposition from some countries to some of the proposals in relation to restricting UK access to security related schemes in particular. Not everything that is proposed is a done deal. And if we want to be involved in certain areas we obviously retain considerable leverage if we want to use it.
Perhaps the real issues are the extent to which we can use our potential leverage on security issues in other areas. Thus far any attempts, if they exist, have not got any where. However Russia trying to flex muscles might focus a few minds.
That’s the first time Germany have lost a World Cup qualifier since we beat them 5-1 in Munich in 2001 (according to ITV)
What a night that was!!!!
I remember it well. I was on a cal-mac ferry going across to Islay. Shortly after departure the tannoy announced that the score was Germany 1 England 0. Though the match was just drawing to its conclusion as the ferry arrived, strangely the tannoy-announcer had neglected to give any further score updates.
I also remember well. In the car driving towards France for start of holiday, radio on. Bliss it was on that motorway as we cheered them on.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
Possibly. NATO really should have been wound up in 1989.
Jesus.
David actually but you know, easy to confuse.... Especially if I can't get a haircut.
I'll put this down to your account being hacked by a cyberbot.
Hopefully, the real David will reassert control by the morning and elbow out this Corbynite imitator.
I may have had a few glasses of wine after my court case finished today but this is no cyberbot. I agree with @MaxPB on this actually. We have a painfully small military now and it is getting smaller. We are hugely overcommitted in terms of countries that we have promised to go to the aid of. We have made these promises with a bunch of countries who are not acting like friends, let alone allies. We have legitimate interests to protect but we need to seriously think about what they are. NATO was useful when it tied the US to the defence of Europe and us. They have gone home and have nothing left here. They are not interested. It is not obvious why we should be either.
I am no pacifist. I am open to the idea of us having a minor role in the Pacific if this helps our trade interests. My enthusiasm for protecting the likes of Germany, however, is very much diminished. Why the hell should we?
Also, I can't hear the word "un-British" without thinking of an old episode of Mock The Week, "if this is the answer what is the question?" round:
"Answer:Crazy, Loopy and Un-British
Question: How do public figures describe British Airways decision to send home an employee for refusing to cover up her crucifix necklace? HD: What is Mohammed al-Fayed? FB: What is Prince Phillip? RH: Who are the arch-enemies of Snap, Crackle and Pop? AH: What nicknames has Madonna given her children? AP: If you read The Daily Mail, what is everything? FB: What do you call slapping a bulldog?"
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
I am disturbed by the idea of the NATO members of the EU not treating the UK as a member of NATO.
Genuine question: How are they doing that?
By seeking to exclude us from defence and space related research on security grounds
But aren't they doing that to other non EU/EEA NATO countries?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? I believe Norway and Iceland are the only two countries that meet that description, and neither are major contributors of the scale of the UK to military and space technology upon which the defence of NATO is predicated.
Edit: I meant European non-EU countries
I'm not saying the EU are being smart, but if the UK isn't in the EU, how can it complain about not being allowed access to EU schemes?
The withdrawal agreement negotiated are participation
The EU have now decided that because we are a third country we can’t be trusted on defence and security matters
But no one is worried about them ripping up a treaty
All the extra pointless requirements to inform the EU and the paperwork as part of the export controls scheme (that definitely not a scheme targeted at the UK) is generally slowing everything down.
“There is a new story about the Caribbean experience which speaks to the slave period not only being about profit and suffering but how culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain.”
Also:
"It said education about the British Empire should focus on how “Britishness” influenced former colonies and those colonies “influenced what we know about modern Britain”."
Those are the sections causing controversy I think.
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
On the headline topic, has the UK population become a set of f**king ninnies? Enough people will get the vaccine to create a high level of protection. We do not need to exclude those who do not or cannot.
Off-topic: Based on the concept that when a country sabre rattles it often increases troops on an opposing country's borders. After a point, the scale & type of build-up gets to a stage where you have to assume that the intention is no longer to threaten force but to use it.
Watching the Russian-Ukrainian border in recent days, you are getting very close to that assumption.
Its fair to say the US is worried.
I was waiting to hear your view - not looking great is it
It is not. At very least its a strong arm negotiation attempt and a test of Biden early to see the reaction. Russia has possibly assessed him as per Obama, will do fuck all. At the worst its military action, possibly territory around the Sea of Azov but just as likely to weaken Ukraine's military to a massive extent as it seeks to reform and modernise. My understanding is that Russian messages to the likes of Germany is to bring Ukraine to heel as per whatever unspecified demands Russia has. The timing, ie around Easter, would be a concern, its a well established practice to do things when western states & governments are on holiday.
US European Command is reportedly on 'imminent crisis' which is as high a watch status as you can get before actual shooting starts.
The US European Command doesn't really have any assets any more, does it? They have all gone home.
The US has deep gut instincts which want to react as soon as Russia wants to do anything but the truth is that they lost all interest in Europe at least 20 years ago. And quite right too. They should be focused on the Pacific.
But the issue for Europe is that it just lost its other reliable ally with any kind of military. It would be sad if Russian tanks rolled through Europe but after the experience of brexit and everything that has followed I'd no longer want us to get involved. There's no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending a continent that values the UK to such a low extent.
We have to Max. Russia is the biggest state threat to the UK.
And if they're not stood-up to then NATO collapses leaving us high and dry.
Why do we? Honestly, I've realised over the last year that we are an island nation, what happens on the continent isn't our concern, they made that abundantly clear to us after 2016.
The biggest threat to the UK isn't Russia, it's China. Chinese companies buying up UK IP and swathes of UK industry, making key investments in our infrastructure and national security infrastructure. China is getting its hooks into the UK to an extent that we won't be able to get rid of them without incurring huge damage and cost.
Russia isn't going to invade the UK. It has little to no leverage over the UK. We have no incentive to spend our blood and treasure defending Europe any more.
I agree China is a problem. However, Russia regularly makes illegal incursions into our air space and sends submarines into our territorial waters, and has also used chemical weapons on our soil; it wants to dominate the land, sea and air all around us so it can dominate us too. I very much see it as a threat.
Besides, in our globalised age I don't think there's any such thing as defending ourselves at the border anymore. That's not how hostile modern states defeat you anymore. Those days are gone.
Sure, you have to box clever - and use military force as a last resort - but you have to engage with their geopolitical machinations wherever they might meaningfully affect your fundamental interests, and those of your allies you depend upon.
Boxing clever, in this case, is making Europe lie in the bed it made wrt the UK-EU relationship. It pushed us out to third country status and now it needs to learn the consequences of that decision. It's still pushing us away with moves to block UK research from defence facing grants and the stupid decisions on Galileo.
Again, why should we come to the aid of those who have proven they wouldn't do the same for us and are actively trying to punish us? The reality is that they'll resent us for getting involved but also resent us if we don't. Better not to spend our time, effort and money on it.
The EU is irrelevant in this. It's in our national interest to stand up to and contain Russia, and to help those Eastern European countries - like Poland, the Baltic States and Romania and Bulgaria - that could potentially end up facing off directly against Russia.
Also, I have a wife from Eastern Europe. She really doesn't want to go through this all over again. And I don't want to live again with the shame of being a Briton who could have helped stop it but did nothing.
The EU is extremely relevant in this. They've pursued a relationship with the UK that has attempted to freeze us out of the security and defence apparatus of Europe. If those Baltic and Eastern Euro nations were as concerned about this as you say then they would have forced the EU to change whatever rules were necessary to keep the UK closely tied in and unblocking our full participation in Galileo, ensuring that the UK isn't frozen out of defence facing research etc...
Ultimately we need to look out for our own interests and set a price for our helping them. Our relationship with the EU is 100% transactional and we must operate on that basis. Treaty changes to be indefinitely included in Galileo and no chance of being frozen out of defence facing research, long term agreement on financial services and easing the border issues for our exports. That's the price.
To be fair i've read that there has been quite a bit of opposition from some countries to some of the proposals in relation to restricting UK access to security related schemes in particular. Not everything that is proposed is a done deal. And if we want to be involved in certain areas we obviously retain considerable leverage if we want to use it.
Perhaps the real issues are the extent to which we can use our potential leverage on security issues in other areas. Thus far any attempts, if they exist, have not got any where. However Russia trying to flex muscles might focus a few minds.
The fact that it's even on the agenda in Brussels along with hostile actions like trying to block our vaccine supplies during a pandemic speaks volumes about what kind of relationship they want with the UK. We should absolutely respond in kind and withdraw our implicit military support, it's time for the EU to fend for itself or live with the consequences of pissing off the major security and intelligence power in the region and the US.
I'm loving the specific idea of vaccine passports to visit the soft play. The kids needing a passport too, or what?
Also, let's get these numbers split out by people already offered a vaccine, and by people not yet offered a vaccine. Would be interesting to see the difference in the responses. Can't help but feel that these responses are driven by a load of people going "yep we're already vaxxed, so do whatever the hell you want with it".
On the yougov daily today it asked about covid passports for the pub. 28% of under 24s supported it compared to 58% of over 65's. The question did state "after everyone has been offered vaccination", I wonder what the point is by then.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
Possibly. NATO really should have been wound up in 1989.
Jesus.
David actually but you know, easy to confuse.... Especially if I can't get a haircut.
I'll put this down to your account being hacked by a cyberbot.
Hopefully, the real David will reassert control by the morning and elbow out this Corbynite imitator.
I may have had a few glasses of wine after my court case finished today but this is no cyberbot. I agree with @MaxPB on this actually. We have a painfully small military now and it is getting smaller. We are hugely overcommitted in terms of countries that we have promised to go to the aid of. We have made these promises with a bunch of countries who are not acting like friends, let alone allies. We have legitimate interests to protect but we need to seriously think about what they are. NATO was useful when it tied the US to the defence of Europe and us. They have gone home and have nothing left here. They are not interested. It is not obvious why we should be either.
I am no pacifist. I am open to the idea of us having a minor role in the Pacific if this helps our trade interests. My enthusiasm for protecting the likes of Germany, however, is very much diminished. Why the hell should we?
I think the rationale is that it's better to constrain the rise of an expansionary Russia, picking off little states in the East, than to only act when Russia has become the continental hegemon.
“There is a new story about the Caribbean experience which speaks to the slave period not only being about profit and suffering but how culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain.”
Also:
"It said education about the British Empire should focus on how “Britishness” influenced former colonies and those colonies “influenced what we know about modern Britain”."
Those are the sections causing controversy I think.
Yes - but more than that.
The suspicion is that the Report is a cynically manufactured weapon to support the "let's not talk about racism" lobby.
As if all the progress we've made on racism over the last few decades is down to people not talking about it.
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
I am disturbed by the idea of the NATO members of the EU not treating the UK as a member of NATO.
Genuine question: How are they doing that?
By seeking to exclude us from defence and space related research on security grounds
But aren't they doing that to other non EU/EEA NATO countries?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? I believe Norway and Iceland are the only two countries that meet that description, and neither are major contributors of the scale of the UK to military and space technology upon which the defence of NATO is predicated.
Edit: I meant European non-EU countries
I'm not saying the EU are being smart, but if the UK isn't in the EU, how can it complain about not being allowed access to EU schemes?
They also can't say we dont trust you on defence issues but help us defend eastern europe then. It was their move not ours
Is Starmer reading different polling to the ones quoted in the thread header?
Labour focus groups telling him something different on vaccine app?
If you read what he actually says on the front page, it isn’t clear whether he thinks they’re a good or bad idea, or whether he’ll vote for or against them.
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
Possibly. NATO really should have been wound up in 1989.
Jesus.
David actually but you know, easy to confuse.... Especially if I can't get a haircut.
I'll put this down to your account being hacked by a cyberbot.
Hopefully, the real David will reassert control by the morning and elbow out this Corbynite imitator.
I may have had a few glasses of wine after my court case finished today but this is no cyberbot. I agree with @MaxPB on this actually. We have a painfully small military now and it is getting smaller. We are hugely overcommitted in terms of countries that we have promised to go to the aid of. We have made these promises with a bunch of countries who are not acting like friends, let alone allies. We have legitimate interests to protect but we need to seriously think about what they are. NATO was useful when it tied the US to the defence of Europe and us. They have gone home and have nothing left here. They are not interested. It is not obvious why we should be either.
I am no pacifist. I am open to the idea of us having a minor role in the Pacific if this helps our trade interests. My enthusiasm for protecting the likes of Germany, however, is very much diminished. Why the hell should we?
I think the rationale is that it's better to constrain the rise of an expansionary Russia, picking off little states in the East, than to only act when Russia has become the continental hegemon.
It's not Germany we're protecting, but ourselves.
Is it though? What threat does Russia pose to this island nation? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely interested to know how Russia becoming the continental hegemon is any different to now. A diminished EU is probably to our advantage, if we're playing the zero sum game.
In January, Britain made a change to its vaccine guidelines that shocked many health experts: If the second dose of one vaccine wasn’t available, patients could be given a different one.
The new rule was based on sheer guesswork. There was no scientific data at the time demonstrating that mixing two coronavirus vaccines was safe and effective. But that may change soon.
In February, researchers at the University of Oxford began a trial in which volunteers received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine followed by a dose of AstraZeneca’s formulation, or vice versa. This month, the researchers will start analyzing the blood of the subjects to see how well the mix-and-match approach works.
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
Is Starmer reading different polling to the ones quoted in the thread header?
Labour focus groups telling him something different on vaccine app?
If you read what he actually says on the front page, it isn’t clear whether he thinks they’re a good or bad idea, or whether he’ll vote for or against them.
That is very different from the reaction of some posters on here
I doubt few if anyone, including HMG, would disagree
Not that i know anything about the background to this report, its origins, how and why it came to its conclusions, or what actually it says, i'm interested to know how it is possible to construct a report about race relations that won't have somebody somewhere criticising it as "divisive"...
Most of the people writing the report were black or Asian.
Yes though many of the authors had denied for years that institutional racism existed.
The report has the same credibility as Shami Chakribati's report into Labour anti-semitism. If you write the conclusion before looking at the evidence...
I'm loving the specific idea of vaccine passports to visit the soft play. The kids needing a passport too, or what?
Also, let's get these numbers split out by people already offered a vaccine, and by people not yet offered a vaccine. Would be interesting to see the difference in the responses. Can't help but feel that these responses are driven by a load of people going "yep we're already vaxxed, so do whatever the hell you want with it".
On the yougov daily today it asked about covid passports for the pub. 28% of under 24s supported it compared to 58% of over 65's. The question did state "after everyone has been offered vaccination", I wonder what the point is by then.
Am I the only person here who's a bit disturbed at the idea that Brexit now means the UK is effectively not in NATO?
Possibly. NATO really should have been wound up in 1989.
Jesus.
David actually but you know, easy to confuse.... Especially if I can't get a haircut.
I'll put this down to your account being hacked by a cyberbot.
Hopefully, the real David will reassert control by the morning and elbow out this Corbynite imitator.
I may have had a few glasses of wine after my court case finished today but this is no cyberbot. I agree with @MaxPB on this actually. We have a painfully small military now and it is getting smaller. We are hugely overcommitted in terms of countries that we have promised to go to the aid of. We have made these promises with a bunch of countries who are not acting like friends, let alone allies. We have legitimate interests to protect but we need to seriously think about what they are. NATO was useful when it tied the US to the defence of Europe and us. They have gone home and have nothing left here. They are not interested. It is not obvious why we should be either.
I am no pacifist. I am open to the idea of us having a minor role in the Pacific if this helps our trade interests. My enthusiasm for protecting the likes of Germany, however, is very much diminished. Why the hell should we?
I think the rationale is that it's better to constrain the rise of an expansionary Russia, picking off little states in the East, than to only act when Russia has become the continental hegemon.
It's not Germany we're protecting, but ourselves.
Come on Robert. Russia is a joke of a power. Not a very funny one but a joke nonetheless. They will not be invading any real countries, not even the Baltic states. He can take advantage when there is chaos and weakness.
Comments
Kudos.
Edit: I meant European non-EU countries
Edinburgh West similarly elected a unionist LD who was anti Brexit
https://twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/1377214937441955840
Also, I have a wife from Eastern Europe. She really doesn't want to go through this all over again. And I don't want to live again with the shame of being a Briton who could have helped stop it but did nothing.
Some vaccine passport scheme is inevitable
Cracking day today. Wrote a political leaflet, then pizza and beer in the garden with a mate I haven't seen properly for 6 months. And now news that the Govt will probably not be able to get Vax passports through.
What a day!
International travel, fine. But not stupid domestic schemes. Especially since it doesn't take much thought to quickly realise that (for their stated purpose) there will be holes in them a mile wide, which leads to the conclusion that the driving forces behind them probably have nothing really to do with Covid at all. As always with these sort of proposals, the official justification is a convenient excuse.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4750465
Labour focus groups telling him something different on vaccine app?
Of course the Government's "get out" will be to stick to the "purely voluntary (and non coercive)" line, which i could live with because i don't expect any businesses to enforce, and there would be no danger of fines and the like.
And another thing not to worry about - while I'm in anxiety calming mode - is "vaccine passports" for domestic use in things like pubs and restaurants. There is absolutely no chance of this coming to pass.
His polling could be interesting if his stance becomes known
He actually said that with a straight face. Incredible.
Hopefully, the real David will reassert control by the morning and elbow out this Corbynite imitator.
Ultimately we need to look out for our own interests and set a price for our helping them. Our relationship with the EU is 100% transactional and we must operate on that basis. Treaty changes to be indefinitely included in Galileo and no chance of being frozen out of defence facing research, long term agreement on financial services and easing the border issues for our exports. That's the price.
Also, let's get these numbers split out by people already offered a vaccine, and by people not yet offered a vaccine. Would be interesting to see the difference in the responses. Can't help but feel that these responses are driven by a load of people going "yep we're already vaxxed, so do whatever the hell you want with it".
Beginning to unwrap the flag off the government.
Perhaps the real issues are the extent to which we can use our potential leverage on security issues in other areas. Thus far any attempts, if they exist, have not got any where. However Russia trying to flex muscles might focus a few minds.
I agree with @MaxPB on this actually. We have a painfully small military now and it is getting smaller. We are hugely overcommitted in terms of countries that we have promised to go to the aid of. We have made these promises with a bunch of countries who are not acting like friends, let alone allies. We have legitimate interests to protect but we need to seriously think about what they are. NATO was useful when it tied the US to the defence of Europe and us. They have gone home and have nothing left here. They are not interested. It is not obvious why we should be either.
I am no pacifist. I am open to the idea of us having a minor role in the Pacific if this helps our trade interests. My enthusiasm for protecting the likes of Germany, however, is very much diminished. Why the hell should we?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9422507/Students-Pimlico-Academy-London-stage-protest-racist-uniform-policy.html
"Answer:Crazy, Loopy and Un-British
Question: How do public figures describe British Airways decision to send home an employee for refusing to cover up her crucifix necklace?
HD: What is Mohammed al-Fayed?
FB: What is Prince Phillip?
RH: Who are the arch-enemies of Snap, Crackle and Pop?
AH: What nicknames has Madonna given her children?
AP: If you read The Daily Mail, what is everything?
FB: What do you call slapping a bulldog?"
The EU have now decided that because we are a third country we can’t be trusted on defence and security matters
But no one is worried about them ripping up a treaty
“There is a new story about the Caribbean experience which speaks to the slave period not only being about profit and suffering but how culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain.”
Also:
"It said education about the British Empire should focus on how “Britishness” influenced former colonies and those colonies “influenced what we know about modern Britain”."
Those are the sections causing controversy I think.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1377304628484792327
It's not Germany we're protecting, but ourselves.
The suspicion is that the Report is a cynically manufactured weapon to support the "let's not talk about racism" lobby.
As if all the progress we've made on racism over the last few decades is down to people not talking about it.
The new rule was based on sheer guesswork. There was no scientific data at the time demonstrating that mixing two coronavirus vaccines was safe and effective. But that may change soon.
In February, researchers at the University of Oxford began a trial in which volunteers received a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine followed by a dose of AstraZeneca’s formulation, or vice versa. This month, the researchers will start analyzing the blood of the subjects to see how well the mix-and-match approach works.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/31/world/covid-19-coronavirus/scientists-wonder-if-a-mix-and-match-approach-to-vaccines-could-be-the-way-to-go
I doubt few if anyone, including HMG, would disagree
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1377374696933531648
The report has the same credibility as Shami Chakribati's report into Labour anti-semitism. If you write the conclusion before looking at the evidence...