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AOC-2024? Yes, the Democrats really could go from their oldest nominee to their youngest – political

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  • I don't about the word 'mild' there, judging by what I went through last weekend. :smiley:
    I had my first AZ jab on Thursday. No ill effects, not even a sore arm.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,368

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,633
    IanB2 said:

    The problem they now have is political. Have you listened to Any Questions? Having a leading party figure (and there will be others) saying you are unfit to be the candidate is dooming the campaign before it starts.
    Shami a leading political figure? Don't make me laugh.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.
  • lloydylloydy Posts: 36
    Sandpit said:

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108

    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    ONS: Wales had the highest median age in mid-2019 (42.5 years), followed by Scotland (42.0), England (40.0) and Northern Ireland (38.9).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,654

    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    Looks like a vaccination drive in the House of Lords is required.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    ydoethur said:

    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    Yes, the welsh numbers are being elevated by second vaccinations. The following shows first vaccinations - thus people who have have had at least one vaccination.

    image

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,368

    ONS: Wales had the highest median age in mid-2019 (42.5 years), followed by Scotland (42.0), England (40.0) and Northern Ireland (38.9).
    So actually it’s not surprising, given the cohorts being vaccinated, that they are well ahead of everyone else?

    Admittedly there are other factors at play as well - the strategy, the different configuration of the NHS, the larger number of medium sized medical centres that can be used, etc. But I imagine that is the key driver of it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,654

    I had my first AZ jab on Thursday. No ill effects, not even a sore arm.
    I didn't realise that they were still running a placebo cohort...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    lloydy said:

    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    Warning for AZ vaccine
    According to the ASSESMENT of the European Medicines Agency, the benefits of the AZ-VACCINE OUTWEIGH the risks
    In order to raise AWARENESS of possible risks, the PRODUCT INFORMATION for the vaccine should contain a WARNING in future
    This is intended to make informed patients and informed doctors aware of possible rare cases of THROMBOSIS IN CEREBRAL VEINS
    In this way, with an INFORMED doctor and APPROPRIATELY INFORMED patient, vaccination can continue with AZ
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,633
    edited March 2021
    Roger said:

    Further congratulations. You've now won first prize for the two least attractive posts since early SeanT (but without his wit)
    Roger: you weren't here last Sunday. You might want to read this thread - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/14/one-womans-perspective/ - about some of women's real-life experiences, one of them relevant to this term, before so casually dismissing what @YBarddCwsc says.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Sandpit said:

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    It's a variation on the French deciding to permit it's use but then announcing that it only becomes safe to take on your 55th birthday and not before. It's probably the result of idiocy rather than wilful sabotage but it does give the appearance of the latter.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited March 2021
    ..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,368
    Pulpstar said:

    Warning for AZ vaccine
    According to the ASSESMENT of the European Medicines Agency, the benefits of the AZ-VACCINE OUTWEIGH the risks
    In order to raise AWARENESS of possible risks, the PRODUCT INFORMATION for the vaccine should contain a WARNING in future
    This is intended to make informed patients and informed doctors aware of possible rare cases of THROMBOSIS IN CEREBRAL VEINS
    In this way, with an INFORMED doctor and APPROPRIATELY INFORMED patient, vaccination can continue with AZ
    Good grief. Somebody in the EU has positively lost their mind over this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    lloydy said:

    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    At this point I think Occam’s Razor applies, and it’s a combination of Pharma lobbying and a desire to bash the British. Any other explaination is much worse.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108

    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited March 2021
    MattW said:

    Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.

    I was reacting strongly against the idea that Puritanism is defined *in opposition* to something else, rather than as a positive movement in its own right with its own identity. I think it is more than that. *

    I'd also question the "English" part of the definition, and make it far more on an arc through the much of Europe.

    Have a good day.

    “ Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.”

    I don’t know what to say. I feel embarrassed now. I was not greatly offended. I come to this blog to learn, not lecture. And the reformation and what spills out from it, is a huge topic I accept in my lifetime I will only have a cardboard cutout understanding of.

    As a sort of follow on, how well is the Reformation understood, not just by those who don’t read history books, but by those who write them? It was big, aggressive, bloody, but If I was to offer a cardboard cut out one line to sum it up - it was an argument how much magic you can have in a religion, and how much of that magic has become a money making con trick - how accurate is that summing up?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    So actually it’s not surprising, given the cohorts being vaccinated, that they are well ahead of everyone else?

    Admittedly there are other factors at play as well - the strategy, the different configuration of the NHS, the larger number of medium sized medical centres that can be used, etc. But I imagine that is the key driver of it.
    I doubt it. The difference is too small.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,368
    Sandpit said:

    At this point I think Occam’s Razor applies, and it’s a combination of Pharma lobbying and a desire to bash the British. Any other explaination is much worse.
    The other explanation is that they are just thick.

    This explanation unfortunately still works for me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    Cyclefree said:



    Shami a leading political figure? Don't make me laugh. I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.
    I'd say pragmatism would have been not having that chat in public, and then wiping the slate before entering public life.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    ydoethur said:

    Which teachers? I haven’t said any such thing. Nor, indeed, have I seen any reports on it given I have been rather busy recently trying to keep up with the ludicrous demands of the government’s Covid strategy (to dignify it).

    Indeed, if I wanted to see a dramatic reduction in the amount of sexism in schools, the last thing I would want is a national strategy from the government,* who are so profoundly stupid, lazy and ignorant of educational systems and processes that any strategy they created would be counter-productive.

    *read, ‘the Department for Education.’
    Perhaps if they made *sexism* a mandatory part of the curriculum, then we could apply the failures in UK education to the problem?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,368

    Perhaps if they made *sexism* a mandatory part of the curriculum, then we could apply the failures in UK education to the problem?
    Hmmm.

    That could work, you know...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    ydoethur said:

    The other explanation is that they are just thick.

    This explanation unfortunately still works for me.
    The DfE has infiltrated the EU? Those Brexiter Barstewards will stop at nothing!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204

    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

    Residents have gone to welsh mass vax centres.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,496

    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

    On the border with Wales so might be getting done in Chepstow.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Oh absolutely, but that much data is only, alas, of use to those of us with the right software to manipulate it.

    On the broader picture, I've just had a look at the percentages by whole NHS England region and discovered something rather strange. In terms of first dose percentages, London is well adrift amongst all age groups over 65, but moves ahead of the North East & Yorkshire for the 60-64 age group and is ahead of everywhere else in the drive to jab the 55-59's. It looks distinctly as if they've decided to crack on with the slightly younger recipients and perhaps go back and try to talk the elderly refuseniks into having it at a later date, unless anyone has a better explanation...?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,633
    Cookie said:

    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108

    Oh absolutely, but that much data is only, alas, of use to those of us with the right software to manipulate it.

    On the broader picture, I've just had a look at the percentages by whole NHS England region and discovered something rather strange. In terms of first dose percentages, London is well adrift amongst all age groups over 65, but moves ahead of the North East & Yorkshire for the 60-64 age group and is ahead of everywhere else in the drive to jab the 55-59's. It looks distinctly as if they've decided to crack on with the slightly younger recipients and perhaps go back and try to talk the elderly refuseniks into having it at a later date, unless anyone has a better explanation...?
    If you bring it up in Excel, it has filters setup, so you can filter on LTLA name, for example.

    So for Newham - you get about 30 rows.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    Cyclefree said:

    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    100%

    Like many other things, if you think about subject/group x through a contemptuous/demeaning filter, then that filter will effect all your interactions with that group.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,423
    Sean_F said:

    Incest has become a very popular variant of porn, probably due to A Game of Thrones and Frozen.
    Frozen?!
  • Hmm, as indicated in the presser the other day, the vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization and death is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

    (Not sure if this has been previously linked.)

    As I expected, nowhere near 100% effectiveness against serious disease or death in over 70s. Good protection, excellent even, but not nearly 100%. We need to not get carried away.

    --AS
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    I see VDL is telling the massive lie again...

    Ms von der Leyen said the EU's contract with AstraZeneca states that vaccines destined for the bloc would be produced in both EU and UK plants, "but we haven't received anything from the Brits".

    "I can't explain to European citizens why we are exporting millions of vaccine doses to countries that are producing vaccines themselves and aren't sending us anything back," she said.

    _----------

    AZN should sue her.
  • kle4 said:

    Frozen?!
    https://thefreepeach.com/2019/09/26/breaking-spike-in-incest-porn-popularity-after-the-release-of-frozen-2-trailer/
  • I can't believe I missed all the MILF chat on here today especially I helped educate a few PBers on what that term means.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,487

    I can't believe I missed all the MILF chat on here today especially I helped educate a few PBers on what that term means.

    One of the more amusing things I've seen in America is more than one car or truck with stickers on the back like "I'm a GILF" - presumably grandma I'd like to ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Hmm, as indicated in the presser the other day, the vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization and death is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

    (Not sure if this has been previously linked.)

    As I expected, nowhere near 100% effectiveness against serious disease or death in over 70s. Good protection, excellent even, but not nearly 100%. We need to not get carried away.

    --AS

    Don't know what the previous discussion was about, but this is data for test 14+ days after 1st dose.

    Protection increases after 1st dose until about 22 days after vaccination, and increases further up to 14 days after 2nd dose. So the figures cited in this report are pretty much the lowest levels of protection provided by vaccination once it starts to provide any degree of protection, not the level of protection once full protection is achieved 14 days after 2nd dose.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    Because so much better to be sitting in a warehouse in the EU unused than in the arm of a UK citizen
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,961
    Cyclefree said:

    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    A lot of us, I think, would not recognise a porn term if we saw it, Ms Cyclefree. The number of perverts here is more limited that you might think.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    Flag and Queen...Beeboids choking on their oat milk organic overnight oats.

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1373228545644855296?s=19
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I see VDL is telling the massive lie again...

    Ms von der Leyen said the EU's contract with AstraZeneca states that vaccines destined for the bloc would be produced in both EU and UK plants, "but we haven't received anything from the Brits".

    "I can't explain to European citizens why we are exporting millions of vaccine doses to countries that are producing vaccines themselves and aren't sending us anything back," she said.

    _----------

    AZN should sue her.

    They’re quickly going to be left with very little choice in the matter, given the apparently co-ordinated trashing of their reputation.

    Talk about no good deed going unpunished.
  • Fishing said:

    One of the more amusing things I've seen in America is more than one car or truck with stickers on the back like "I'm a GILF" - presumably grandma I'd like to ...
    Can be, there's been an explosion of DILFs, so the G can mean Grandad as well Grandma.

    Particularly adventurous may see it as Grandparents, so a ménage à trois.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I don't about the word 'mild' there, judging by what I went through last weekend. :smiley:
    I was a bit tired and achy - nothing too drastic and sure beats laying in hospital gasping for breath.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,494
    gealbhan said:

    That’s good then. Because the moment a nation does go and do it, it sets a precedent.
    The Indians claim supplies are hampered by the US Defence Production Act, the invocation of which has prevented the export of key goods.

    What’s clear is that there are still a number of materials bottlenecks in global vaccine production.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited March 2021

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    Sandpit said:

    They’re quickly going to be left with very little choice in the matter, given the apparently co-ordinated trashing of their reputation.

    Talk about no good deed going unpunished.
    I would think that they will wait until VDL breaks the contract in an unambiguous way. She has form for that. Then take it court.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,423
    edited March 2021
    RobD said:

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others suggest it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336
    justin124 said:

    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    kle4 said:

    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others make suggest it.
    "What the EU wants, the EU gets."
  • RobD said:

    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Cyclefree said:

    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    Only a week or so since the last murder....how quickly people forget - especially when politics takes over.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,633
    ClippP said:

    A lot of us, I think, would not recognise a porn term if we saw it, Ms Cyclefree. The number of perverts here is more limited that you might think.
    That's the point, though, isn't it? We don't recognise where it comes from. Some see it as as using banter if a bit crude. Others do recognise it and dislike it.

    In the meanwhile the pornification of our language continues. What we say about people reveals what we think about them. That applies to women just as much as it does to black people. Or any other group.

    As I wrote last week-

    "We might also want to consider whether the pornification of much of our media and the normalisation of porn are a good thing. The view that it gives of women is not one calculated to induce respect or indeed a realistic view of sexual relations or female sexuality. Not an easy topic. No-one wants a Mary Whitehouse-style Puritanism. But attitudes and behaviour are formed by many factors. If we really want to change the former we need to address why people have the views they do."

    Judging by the stories in today's Times about what has been going on in some of our more prestigious public schools we urgently need to address the question of why people - let's be blunt - many (not all) young men have the attitudes towards women they do.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371

    "What the EU wants, the EU gets."
    Cartman wants the new iPad episode of South Park comes to mind.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,242
    edited March 2021
    justin124 said:

    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    I seem to recall some of the weirder PBers consider Truss a MILF. Pretty sure a big scarlet A stuck on at the beginning won't put them off.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    RobD said:

    Sorry, what?
    With Labour supporters the sexism goes very deep...especially when Tories are concerned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    edited March 2021
    justin124 said:

    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    You mean you think homosexual are deviants who deserve to locked up and chemically castrated?

    That was mainstream at the time.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336
    justin124 said:

    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    ydoethur said:

    Would be interested to see the figure for Ireland, particularly given many seem to be slipping across the border to get vaccinated there if they can.

    Edited because on reflection my language was unfairly slanted.
    I would be interested to know the actual number of people who from the ROI are being vaccinated in the North.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    I have this vision of Justin as Mr Cholmondley-Warner.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    RobD said:

    Basically the same thing then.
    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
  • Inspired by the topic, I was looking up the youngest major US Presidential candidate so far - William Jennings Bryan, aged 36 in 1896 as it turns out.

    I thought Wikipedia had an astonishingly modern looking photo of the man on the campaign trail way back then... which I'll try to show below but have never tried posting a photo on here before so may not work.



  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564

    Nice try
    Quite possible.

    There was one term earlier that I had not encountered.

    I know far more than I used to as I worked in IT in a City bank for a year or two.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108

    Cartman wants the new iPad episode of South Park comes to mind.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbebjUYItKw
  • TimT said:

    Don't know what the previous discussion was about, but this is data for test 14+ days after 1st dose.

    Protection increases after 1st dose until about 22 days after vaccination, and increases further up to 14 days after 2nd dose. So the figures cited in this report are pretty much the lowest levels of protection provided by vaccination once it starts to provide any degree of protection, not the level of protection once full protection is achieved 14 days after 2nd dose.
    You're right that they aggregate 14+ days (by test result) in the protections against hospitalization/death, and I had forgotten that this will reflect infections that occurred, say, 9+ days after.

    Nonetheless, it's reasonable to believe that many of those hospitalizations and deaths were in the 21+ day group. I wish they had broken that out, because they show protection against *symptoms* is much stronger at 21+ and pretty much finished at 28+ (even a 2nd dose adds rather little to this, though confidence is low). I guess we'll have to wait for a later report.

    I've just been concerned about some comments here predicting near-100% protection against death, which is incompatible with Israel data.

    --AS
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021
    Cyclefree said:



    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.

    I agree -- let's hope the candidate has the good sense to apologize -- especially given the context.

    Because this is in the context of a by-election in which the previous Labour MP has resigned because of alleged sexual harassment.

    We have yet to actually hear the details of all this -- but it looks like more bad publicity for sexist Labour.

    Whatever, it is clear already that Labour thinks it less damaging to have a by-election in early May than wait till after the tribunal when the details will be in the public domain.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-56436341

    And the victim is certainly scathing about the support the Labour party offered.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    England going to be chasing 200 here.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    justin124 said:

    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336
    justin124 said:

    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
    May as well be.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Flag and Queen...Beeboids choking on their oat milk organic overnight oats.

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1373228545644855296?s=19

    All we need know is a picture of Meghan and Harry in the background with a big red line through it and the choking will be complete
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    Don’t forget that he was also one of the most prominent Parliamentary ‘Remoaners’ in a seat that voted 70/30 for Brexit, and was defeated at the 2019 election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    Labour did lose the seat in 1959!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    If this had been done by a Tory candidate Starmer and his cronies would have been all over it like a rash. The hypocrisy is extraordinary and blatant and within a few days of a vicious murder they already tried to weaponise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    Make it 250 that England will be chasing....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,423
    justin124 said:

    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
    Just possibly, it was not a literaly description.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    felix said:

    If this had been done by a Tory candidate Starmer and his cronies would have been all over it like a rash. The hypocrisy is extraordinary and blatant and within a few days of a vicious murder they already tried to weaponise.
    "I can't be guilty of X, I am a member of the Labour Party!"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited March 2021
    gealbhan said:

    “ Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.”

    I don’t know what to say. I feel embarrassed now. I was not greatly offended. I come to this blog to learn, not lecture. And the reformation and what spills out from it, is a huge topic I accept in my lifetime I will only have a cardboard cutout understanding of.

    As a sort of follow on, how well is the Reformation understood, not just by those who don’t read history books, but by those who write them? It was big, aggressive, bloody, but If I was to offer a cardboard cut out one line to sum it up - it was an argument how much magic you can have in a religion, and how much of that magic has become a money making con trick - how accurate is that summing up?
    In that case I apologise for embarrassing you by apologising for offending you when you were not really offended. I feel like the Consignia logo.


    :smile:

    I think it depends on the scope of your enquiry.

    With Reformation with a capital-R, are you referring to the changes in Governance in the UK - up to arguably the Glorious Revolution, or would you expand it to - for example - include events in Europe such as the 30 Years' War.

    As a cardboard cutout of the Luther Event, I think that is a decent summary - but probably a summary from a Protestant slant, as the orthodox Roman Catholic view would surely be that the 'hocus-pocus' is not magic but a Sacrament, and that the abuse of indulgences is an abuse of a valid concept - and so not to question the validity of the concept.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    Just possibly, it was not a literaly description.
    The year of The Beatles - Harold Wilson became Labour Leader - Kennedy assasination - TW3. It was just a few years ago!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,673
    MattW said:

    I'd say pragmatism would have been not having that chat in public, and then wiping the slate before entering public life.
    The explanation from YBard pinning down the issue was helpful - I do see the point. It's not something I use myself, but I wasn't really sure why not except for a vague sense of bad taste.

    But yes, he apologised - BBC report says "Dr Williams said his comments were "inappropriate and I am sorry for using such language". He added: "They were from a decade ago, which doesn't diminish the fact that they were wrong, but I want to reassure people that I wouldn't dream of making comments like this now."

    Possibly also relevant that he wasn't involved in any public campaigning at the time - he was just a private individual, but presumably someone has gone through all the tweets he's ever sent. It's something for would-be politicians to think about these days when most young people have social media histories - rather as though every conversation one's ever had was recorded and examined by opponents.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,391
    MattW said:

    I would be interested to know the actual number of people who from the ROI are being vaccinated in the North.
    I gather ROI Covid-19 precautions include no-one travelling more than 5km from home. So it will be people within 5km of the border.

    I was pleased to read that NI are doing this, but absolutely take on board the feelings of mainland UK people who are still waiting to be jabbed.

    However if it is only the very close ROI people who are getting the vaccines, that does seem to me a good reason. It would be akin to vaccinating Hampshire but not the near neighbours in Wiltshire.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,108
    MattW said:

    In that case I apologise for embarrassing you by apologising for offending you when you were not really offended. I feel like the Consignia logo.


    :smile:

    I think it depends on the scope of your enquiry.

    With Reformation with a capital-R, are you referring to the changes in Governance in the UK - up to arguably the Glorious Revolution, or would you expand it to - for example - include events in Europe such as the 30 Years' War.

    As a cardboard cutout of the Luther Event, I think that is a decent summary - but probably a summary from a Protestant slant, as the orthodox Roman Catholic view would surely be that the 'hocus-pocus' is not magic but a Sacrament, and that the abuse of indulgences is an abuse of a valid concept - and so not to question the validity of the concept.
    There is also the matter of what other abuses were going on.

    Consider

    - The scandals effecting the modern Church(es)
    - In late medieval times the massive power of the church to protect offenders and prevent accusations against them
    - Human nature hasn't changed.

    Sum all that up and add in the utter fury with which a fair chunk of the Reformation was conducted. Personal, savage anger......
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,809
    I think Drakeford has stolen Sturgeon's doses!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited March 2021
    Just been Astra Zenecaed - very efficient process - in fact faster than the time it took to make the appointment - they're doing 1.2% of the adult population today and 1.8% on Monday.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1373274048998871042?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    MaxPB said:
    In all seriousness, what do we think is going on? Different levels of stockpiling for 2nd doses in case EU have another Cartman meltdown?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371
    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,968
    Cyclefree said:

    That's the point, though, isn't it? We don't recognise where it comes from. Some see it as as using banter if a bit crude. Others do recognise it and dislike it.

    In the meanwhile the pornification of our language continues. What we say about people reveals what we think about them. That applies to women just as much as it does to black people. Or any other group.

    As I wrote last week-

    "We might also want to consider whether the pornification of much of our media and the normalisation of porn are a good thing. The view that it gives of women is not one calculated to induce respect or indeed a realistic view of sexual relations or female sexuality. Not an easy topic. No-one wants a Mary Whitehouse-style Puritanism. But attitudes and behaviour are formed by many factors. If we really want to change the former we need to address why people have the views they do."

    Judging by the stories in today's Times about what has been going on in some of our more prestigious public schools we urgently need to address the question of why people - let's be blunt - many (not all) young men have the attitudes towards women they do.

    Here is the difficulty with all of this. Restrictions on expression (which was widespread until quite recently) entail constant and unremitting attack from liberals, lawyers, free speechers and left leaners (see for example John Mortimer from the old days passim.) .

    Unrestricted and unlimited expression is, effectively, what we have, (about and for +18s) and its consequences entail constant and unremitting attack from some of the same people + lots of others.

    (Incidentally the under 18/16 bar leads to the absurdity that in law it is illegal for two 15 year olds to have a snog - a splendid effort to abolish human nature.)

    Nearly every thinking person wants a middle ground, and so far as I can see such middle ground would only be available on the impossible condition that people freely agree to self limitation. For commercial reasons, as well as human nature reasons, that is not going to happen, any more than we are freely going to stop getting drunk or being a slob.

  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
  • FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    Everything has gone rubbish for England since some PBers started praising England on Thursday and said we were going to win on Thursday.

    Exiling them to ConHome is too good for them.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Scott_xP said:
    Is this a clever way for the SNP to get the findings of the report thrown out, as it is now tainted?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,371

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
    But only the right type of runs....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    But only the right type of runs....
    And we won't use those runs today, but put them in a vault somewhere safe
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    On the dreaded sunshine holidays:

    Dr Mike Tildesley, a member of the scientific pandemic influenza group on modelling, a Sage sub-group, said the increases in Europe made foreign summer holidays look “extremely unlikely”. He said travellers risked bringing back new variants of coronavirus that may be less affected by vaccines.

    “I think that international travel this summer is, for the average holidaymaker, sadly I think extremely unlikely,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme. “I think we are running a real risk if we do start to have lots of people going overseas in July and August because of the potential for bringing more of these new variants back into the country.

    “What is really dangerous is if we jeopardise our vaccination campaign by having these variants where the vaccines don’t work as effectively spreading more rapidly.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/20/covid-rise-europe-may-thwart-uk-plans-ease-lockdown-experts

    Do we think that, assuming the unlocking timetable isn't derailed anyway, the Government will give in to the pressure to allow mass tourism abroad or not? I freely confess I'm not at all sure - though past performance does rather suggest that the answer may be "Yes, for as long as it takes to import an exciting selection of new variants, followed by a reverse ferret amidst an atmosphere of blind panic," but we shall see.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited March 2021

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
    So long as the EU doesn’t ban points going from Italy to Scotland.
This discussion has been closed.