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AOC-2024? Yes, the Democrats really could go from their oldest nominee to their youngest – political

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  • I don't about the word 'mild' there, judging by what I went through last weekend. :smiley:
    I had my first AZ jab on Thursday. No ill effects, not even a sore arm.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales has done 61.9 jabs per 100 people. Northern Ireland is just under 50

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    IanB2 said:

    Totally disagree. Biden will not be the 2024 candidate. He is already being hidden away from press questions. He referred to Harris as the President this past week. He slipped 3 times on the steps to Air Force 1 - also this week. That after he had set off purposefully with his mind set on one thing - "just make it up those steps..." It was painful to watch.

    2 months into his term, 46 more to go. 46 gruelling, get-me-outta-here months. (Although I expect it to be Acting President Kamala Harris under the 25th at some point within those 46...)

    I think Biden could survive physical issues - look at FDR. He made an effort not to flaunt his disability, but it was well-known, and people voted for him anyway. Obviously if he was senile that wouldn't work, but the evidence seems slim - if everything you say is filmed, sometime you'll be caught mis-speaking, and he used to do that a decade or more ago.

    AOC could well be the king/queenmaker - her endorsement (whether or not she'd run herself) would be worth its weight in gold for the nomination. I'm reading Obama's excellent new book - quite introspective and very thoughtful and balanced - and it makes clear the same problem that Biden now has - he has just this year to get the stuff he really needs through Congress before House Democrats start worrying about re-election and tackling to hostile winds.

    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.
    The problem they now have is political. Have you listened to Any Questions? Having a leading party figure (and there will be others) saying you are unfit to be the candidate is dooming the campaign before it starts.
    Shami a leading political figure? Don't make me laugh.



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.
  • lloydylloydy Posts: 36
    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales has done 61.9 jabs per 100 people. Northern Ireland is just under 50

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    ONS: Wales had the highest median age in mid-2019 (42.5 years), followed by Scotland (42.0), England (40.0) and Northern Ireland (38.9).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    Looks like a vaccination drive in the House of Lords is required.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales has done 61.9 jabs per 100 people. Northern Ireland is just under 50

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    Yes, the welsh numbers are being elevated by second vaccinations. The following shows first vaccinations - thus people who have have had at least one vaccination.

    image

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales has done 61.9 jabs per 100 people. Northern Ireland is just under 50

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    ONS: Wales had the highest median age in mid-2019 (42.5 years), followed by Scotland (42.0), England (40.0) and Northern Ireland (38.9).
    So actually it’s not surprising, given the cohorts being vaccinated, that they are well ahead of everyone else?

    Admittedly there are other factors at play as well - the strategy, the different configuration of the NHS, the larger number of medium sized medical centres that can be used, etc. But I imagine that is the key driver of it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,031

    I don't about the word 'mild' there, judging by what I went through last weekend. :smiley:
    I had my first AZ jab on Thursday. No ill effects, not even a sore arm.
    I didn't realise that they were still running a placebo cohort...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,203
    lloydy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    Warning for AZ vaccine
    According to the ASSESMENT of the European Medicines Agency, the benefits of the AZ-VACCINE OUTWEIGH the risks
    In order to raise AWARENESS of possible risks, the PRODUCT INFORMATION for the vaccine should contain a WARNING in future
    This is intended to make informed patients and informed doctors aware of possible rare cases of THROMBOSIS IN CEREBRAL VEINS
    In this way, with an INFORMED doctor and APPROPRIATELY INFORMED patient, vaccination can continue with AZ
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    edited March 2021
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    Seems overly harsh to me.
    Perhaps the judgment as to whether "Mum I'd Love to Fuck" is offensive should be left to mothers ?
    Further congratulations. You've now won first prize for the two least attractive posts since early SeanT (but without his wit)
    Roger: you weren't here last Sunday. You might want to read this thread - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/14/one-womans-perspective/ - about some of women's real-life experiences, one of them relevant to this term, before so casually dismissing what @YBarddCwsc says.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    It's a variation on the French deciding to permit it's use but then announcing that it only becomes safe to take on your 55th birthday and not before. It's probably the result of idiocy rather than wilful sabotage but it does give the appearance of the latter.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021
    ..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pulpstar said:

    lloydy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    Warning for AZ vaccine
    According to the ASSESMENT of the European Medicines Agency, the benefits of the AZ-VACCINE OUTWEIGH the risks
    In order to raise AWARENESS of possible risks, the PRODUCT INFORMATION for the vaccine should contain a WARNING in future
    This is intended to make informed patients and informed doctors aware of possible rare cases of THROMBOSIS IN CEREBRAL VEINS
    In this way, with an INFORMED doctor and APPROPRIATELY INFORMED patient, vaccination can continue with AZ
    Good grief. Somebody in the EU has positively lost their mind over this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    lloydy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    At this point I think Occam’s Razor applies, and it’s a combination of Pharma lobbying and a desire to bash the British. Any other explaination is much worse.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited March 2021
    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    This discussion cements my view that the Dems look very week going into 2024.

    There is a certain tendency to assume that the players in 2024 will be the same as 2020.

    Sure we had heard of Biden in 2016, and Sanders, Warren too, but who had heard of Buttigeig, O'Rorke, Harris or Klobuchar?

    It isn't quite true that there are no second acts in American lives, but second chances are rare.
    I was just going to say what a good idea to use a selfie as your avatar and then you changed it
    Just feeling a bit more Puritanical this morning, in the long and honourable tradition of English Radicalism. 🙂
    What did I read Puritanism defined as the other day - the desperate fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having fun? Or is that socialism?

    Anyway, hopefully it will pass for you. :smiley:
    No, Puritanism is about the inner life, standing apart from the corruption of the world.

    There are a lot of secular Puritans now, particularly but not exclusively on the Left and Greens.

    It is a contrasting strand of English tradition to the aristocratic cavaliers. Different labels now but the same tradition. One of my favourite Cromwell quotes on the subject:

    "I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a Gentle-man and is nothing else."

    And that is how he won...
    He lost. A wobbly Protectorate very much in office but not in power (financially hamstrung and living in likelihood of of counter revolution in other words) unsustainable after his death. The radicals and socialist who helped put him there he thoroughly stitched up and used his militia to hunt down.

    Puritanism is basically just protest to what they saw as a Catholic faith which had lost its way and a religion needing reform to the degree of a reset. Defined by not what it is, but by what it’s determined not to be.
    No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.

    To understand the mind of the Puritan I would say read Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress or Grace Abounding. There is an emotional side combined with a rigid self-discipline. Canterbury Tales are a good contrast to show Catholic "style" imo.

    Puritanism was partly about a democratisation of priest-style spirituality away from the priesthood.

    For modern politics, my chosen comparison would be the doctrinaire side of Militant. Dave Nellist and similar, with a strong link between belief and personal practice. For a community the most recent I would compare would be the Boer Voortrekkers, though I am sure there are many contemporary similars.

    There are a couple of intriguing MPs who self-consciously lived simply rather than engage in expenses-farming a few years ago. They may be of a similar spirit.

    As a titbit, as far as I am aware it was a Non-conformist Minister who first defended freedom of conscience for atheists, just after 1600.

    Must be Saturday :smile: .
    “No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.‘.

    Gloves off straight away. My understanding of history is cardboard cut out. 😦

    Puritan is Protestant - Protest movement against how the Catholic Church has lost its way, become corrupt. It’s defined by not wanting to be associated with the Catholic Church, the Civil War itself inspired by a drift in Churches towards Catholic worship.

    And was the Protectorate not weak and wobbly? What was it actually for. Did it actually want to behead the King, was it for that? Would it have happened if the King had been less determined to die a martyr? We can see from the Putney Debates and the violence against radicals that followed, the protectorate had no interest in going radical. And through its diplomacy it was quite happy to build bridges with Catholic powerhouses across Europe. If it had lasted another 10 years, where was it actually going?
    Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.

    I was reacting strongly against the idea that Puritanism is defined *in opposition* to something else, rather than as a positive movement in its own right with its own identity. I think it is more than that. *

    I'd also question the "English" part of the definition, and make it far more on an arc through the much of Europe.

    Have a good day.

    “ Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.”

    I don’t know what to say. I feel embarrassed now. I was not greatly offended. I come to this blog to learn, not lecture. And the reformation and what spills out from it, is a huge topic I accept in my lifetime I will only have a cardboard cutout understanding of.

    As a sort of follow on, how well is the Reformation understood, not just by those who don’t read history books, but by those who write them? It was big, aggressive, bloody, but If I was to offer a cardboard cut out one line to sum it up - it was an argument how much magic you can have in a religion, and how much of that magic has become a money making con trick - how accurate is that summing up?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wales has done 61.9 jabs per 100 people. Northern Ireland is just under 50

    I still maintain that the most likely explanation for Wales's overperformance in this area is the slight shortening of the interval between first and second doses that I believe that the Welsh NHS has adopted relative to the rest of the UK. It means that they're revisiting the most vulnerable (and therefore most enthusiastic) cohorts early; many of these are probably also pre-booked second appointments. Less chasing around after people, easier to organise, fewer no-shows. If that's true then the effect should unwind through the UK-wide second dose blitz next month.
    How much older is the Welsh population than the population of the UK as a whole? Anyone got the figures?
    ONS: Wales had the highest median age in mid-2019 (42.5 years), followed by Scotland (42.0), England (40.0) and Northern Ireland (38.9).
    So actually it’s not surprising, given the cohorts being vaccinated, that they are well ahead of everyone else?

    Admittedly there are other factors at play as well - the strategy, the different configuration of the NHS, the larger number of medium sized medical centres that can be used, etc. But I imagine that is the key driver of it.
    I doubt it. The difference is too small.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Sandpit said:

    lloydy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    At this point I think Occam’s Razor applies, and it’s a combination of Pharma lobbying and a desire to bash the British. Any other explaination is much worse.
    The other explanation is that they are just thick.

    This explanation unfortunately still works for me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    Cyclefree said:



    IanB2 said:

    Totally disagree. Biden will not be the 2024 candidate. He is already being hidden away from press questions. He referred to Harris as the President this past week. He slipped 3 times on the steps to Air Force 1 - also this week. That after he had set off purposefully with his mind set on one thing - "just make it up those steps..." It was painful to watch.

    2 months into his term, 46 more to go. 46 gruelling, get-me-outta-here months. (Although I expect it to be Acting President Kamala Harris under the 25th at some point within those 46...)

    I think Biden could survive physical issues - look at FDR. He made an effort not to flaunt his disability, but it was well-known, and people voted for him anyway. Obviously if he was senile that wouldn't work, but the evidence seems slim - if everything you say is filmed, sometime you'll be caught mis-speaking, and he used to do that a decade or more ago.

    AOC could well be the king/queenmaker - her endorsement (whether or not she'd run herself) would be worth its weight in gold for the nomination. I'm reading Obama's excellent new book - quite introspective and very thoughtful and balanced - and it makes clear the same problem that Biden now has - he has just this year to get the stuff he really needs through Congress before House Democrats start worrying about re-election and tackling to hostile winds.

    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.
    The problem they now have is political. Have you listened to Any Questions? Having a leading party figure (and there will be others) saying you are unfit to be the candidate is dooming the campaign before it starts.
    Shami a leading political figure? Don't make me laugh.



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.
    I'd say pragmatism would have been not having that chat in public, and then wiping the slate before entering public life.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:


    Teachers have criticised the government for failing to create a national strategy to tackle sexism in schools, as thousands of students come forward to share experiences of sexual harassment and abuse at school and university as part of a new initiative to tackle rape culture.


    From the Guardian.

    Question: Why would teachers think the government is better at doing this than schools and teachers? What exactly are they waiting for?

    Which teachers? I haven’t said any such thing. Nor, indeed, have I seen any reports on it given I have been rather busy recently trying to keep up with the ludicrous demands of the government’s Covid strategy (to dignify it).

    Indeed, if I wanted to see a dramatic reduction in the amount of sexism in schools, the last thing I would want is a national strategy from the government,* who are so profoundly stupid, lazy and ignorant of educational systems and processes that any strategy they created would be counter-productive.

    *read, ‘the Department for Education.’
    Perhaps if they made *sexism* a mandatory part of the curriculum, then we could apply the failures in UK education to the problem?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:


    Teachers have criticised the government for failing to create a national strategy to tackle sexism in schools, as thousands of students come forward to share experiences of sexual harassment and abuse at school and university as part of a new initiative to tackle rape culture.


    From the Guardian.

    Question: Why would teachers think the government is better at doing this than schools and teachers? What exactly are they waiting for?

    Which teachers? I haven’t said any such thing. Nor, indeed, have I seen any reports on it given I have been rather busy recently trying to keep up with the ludicrous demands of the government’s Covid strategy (to dignify it).

    Indeed, if I wanted to see a dramatic reduction in the amount of sexism in schools, the last thing I would want is a national strategy from the government,* who are so profoundly stupid, lazy and ignorant of educational systems and processes that any strategy they created would be counter-productive.

    *read, ‘the Department for Education.’
    Perhaps if they made *sexism* a mandatory part of the curriculum, then we could apply the failures in UK education to the problem?
    Hmmm.

    That could work, you know...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    lloydy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The German health ministry's latest communication about AZ is unbelievable. The video starts with a "warning notice about AstraZeneca" and says that the EMA has determined that using AZ "outweighs the risks" before showing a scary graphic of the brain and talking about clots.

    https://twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1373227912598581249

    What on Earth are they playing at? It’s as if they’re going through the motions of telling everyone it’s safe, while simultaneously nudging everyone to think it’s dangerous.
    Perhaps they have shares in BioNTech.
    At this point I think Occam’s Razor applies, and it’s a combination of Pharma lobbying and a desire to bash the British. Any other explaination is much worse.
    The other explanation is that they are just thick.

    This explanation unfortunately still works for me.
    The DfE has infiltrated the EU? Those Brexiter Barstewards will stop at nothing!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,203

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

    Residents have gone to welsh mass vax centres.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Further. Does anyone know much about

    MSOA area - E02004635 Tidenham & Woolaston ?????

    Under 55 4%
    55-59 13%
    60-64 27%
    65-69 18%
    70-74 22%
    75-79 20%
    80+ 14%

    On the border with Wales so might be getting done in Chepstow.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Oh absolutely, but that much data is only, alas, of use to those of us with the right software to manipulate it.

    On the broader picture, I've just had a look at the percentages by whole NHS England region and discovered something rather strange. In terms of first dose percentages, London is well adrift amongst all age groups over 65, but moves ahead of the North East & Yorkshire for the 60-64 age group and is ahead of everywhere else in the drive to jab the 55-59's. It looks distinctly as if they've decided to crack on with the slightly younger recipients and perhaps go back and try to talk the elderly refuseniks into having it at a later date, unless anyone has a better explanation...?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    From my analysis of the weekly release of the vaccination data for England. Take-up per age group using the NIMIS population estimates (based on ONS 2019)

    Under 55 20%
    55-59 49%
    60-64 76%
    65-69 88%
    70-74 93%
    75-79 94%
    80+ 94%

    Original spreadsheet here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ss-wULsziT6YqtyCYIq5NnYCa2IEyCh/view?usp=sharing

    source data

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-18-March-2021.xlsx
    The numbers in the older cohorts in particular are very impressive, although some geographical disparities stubbornly persist. I went through the most recent weekly NHS England vaccination update and did my own, comparatively amateurish, investigation into percentage take up amongst the over 80s, as broken down by CCG. The bottom 20% of CCGs by this metric are listed as follows:

    1. Central London (Westminster) 60.3%
    2. West London 70.3%
    3. City & Hackney 70.4%
    4. Newham 72.2%
    5. Tower Hamlets 73.8%
    6. Waltham Forest 76.4%
    7. Brent 79.6%
    8. Hammersmith & Fulham 79.7%
    9. Barking & Dagenham 80.0%
    10. North Central London 82.0%
    11. Luton 84.7%
    12. Ealing 84.8%
    13. South East London 86.4%
    14. Manchester 86.9%
    15. Leicester City 87.0%
    16. Redbridge 87.1%
    17. Havering 87.9%
    18. Sandwell & West Birmingham 88.1%
    19. Liverpool 88.8%
    20.= South West London 89.3%
    20.= Heywood, Middleton & Rochdale 89.3%
    22. Brighton & Hove 89.4%
    23. Hounslow 89.5%
    24. North Kirklees 89.8%
    25. Knowsley 89.9%
    26. Harrow 90.1%
    27.= Southend 90.3%
    27.= Birmingham & Solihull 90.3%

    A pretty clear, if not terribly surprising, pattern suggests itself.
    My spreadsheet (above) does it down to MSOA - which is are tiny areas, nearly 7K of them in England.
    Oh absolutely, but that much data is only, alas, of use to those of us with the right software to manipulate it.

    On the broader picture, I've just had a look at the percentages by whole NHS England region and discovered something rather strange. In terms of first dose percentages, London is well adrift amongst all age groups over 65, but moves ahead of the North East & Yorkshire for the 60-64 age group and is ahead of everywhere else in the drive to jab the 55-59's. It looks distinctly as if they've decided to crack on with the slightly younger recipients and perhaps go back and try to talk the elderly refuseniks into having it at a later date, unless anyone has a better explanation...?
    If you bring it up in Excel, it has filters setup, so you can filter on LTLA name, for example.

    So for Newham - you get about 30 rows.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    100%

    Like many other things, if you think about subject/group x through a contemptuous/demeaning filter, then that filter will effect all your interactions with that group.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Perhaps the judgment as to whether "Mum I'd Love to Fuck" is offensive should be left to mothers ?

    It's LIKE not LOVE. The implied ambivalence is crucial.

    Please review all of Stifler's dialogue in American Pie.

    Worth noting that that MILF has now entered the language as a term in its own right. Also that other similar pornification of language occurs, even in the hallowed place of PB, such as discussion of Step-Mums* on Pornhub.

    *Step Incest fantasy does seem to be a popular genre which strikes me as very odd.
    Incest has become a very popular variant of porn, probably due to A Game of Thrones and Frozen.
    Frozen?!
  • Hmm, as indicated in the presser the other day, the vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization and death is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

    (Not sure if this has been previously linked.)

    As I expected, nowhere near 100% effectiveness against serious disease or death in over 70s. Good protection, excellent even, but not nearly 100%. We need to not get carried away.

    --AS
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    I see VDL is telling the massive lie again...

    Ms von der Leyen said the EU's contract with AstraZeneca states that vaccines destined for the bloc would be produced in both EU and UK plants, "but we haven't received anything from the Brits".

    "I can't explain to European citizens why we are exporting millions of vaccine doses to countries that are producing vaccines themselves and aren't sending us anything back," she said.

    _----------

    AZN should sue her.
  • kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Perhaps the judgment as to whether "Mum I'd Love to Fuck" is offensive should be left to mothers ?

    It's LIKE not LOVE. The implied ambivalence is crucial.

    Please review all of Stifler's dialogue in American Pie.

    Worth noting that that MILF has now entered the language as a term in its own right. Also that other similar pornification of language occurs, even in the hallowed place of PB, such as discussion of Step-Mums* on Pornhub.

    *Step Incest fantasy does seem to be a popular genre which strikes me as very odd.
    Incest has become a very popular variant of porn, probably due to A Game of Thrones and Frozen.
    Frozen?!
    https://thefreepeach.com/2019/09/26/breaking-spike-in-incest-porn-popularity-after-the-release-of-frozen-2-trailer/
  • I can't believe I missed all the MILF chat on here today especially I helped educate a few PBers on what that term means.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052

    I can't believe I missed all the MILF chat on here today especially I helped educate a few PBers on what that term means.

    One of the more amusing things I've seen in America is more than one car or truck with stickers on the back like "I'm a GILF" - presumably grandma I'd like to ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Hmm, as indicated in the presser the other day, the vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization and death is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

    (Not sure if this has been previously linked.)

    As I expected, nowhere near 100% effectiveness against serious disease or death in over 70s. Good protection, excellent even, but not nearly 100%. We need to not get carried away.

    --AS

    Don't know what the previous discussion was about, but this is data for test 14+ days after 1st dose.

    Protection increases after 1st dose until about 22 days after vaccination, and increases further up to 14 days after 2nd dose. So the figures cited in this report are pretty much the lowest levels of protection provided by vaccination once it starts to provide any degree of protection, not the level of protection once full protection is achieved 14 days after 2nd dose.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    Because so much better to be sitting in a warehouse in the EU unused than in the arm of a UK citizen
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    A lot of us, I think, would not recognise a porn term if we saw it, Ms Cyclefree. The number of perverts here is more limited that you might think.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Flag and Queen...Beeboids choking on their oat milk organic overnight oats.

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1373228545644855296?s=19
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    I see VDL is telling the massive lie again...

    Ms von der Leyen said the EU's contract with AstraZeneca states that vaccines destined for the bloc would be produced in both EU and UK plants, "but we haven't received anything from the Brits".

    "I can't explain to European citizens why we are exporting millions of vaccine doses to countries that are producing vaccines themselves and aren't sending us anything back," she said.

    _----------

    AZN should sue her.

    They’re quickly going to be left with very little choice in the matter, given the apparently co-ordinated trashing of their reputation.

    Talk about no good deed going unpunished.
  • Fishing said:

    I can't believe I missed all the MILF chat on here today especially I helped educate a few PBers on what that term means.

    One of the more amusing things I've seen in America is more than one car or truck with stickers on the back like "I'm a GILF" - presumably grandma I'd like to ...
    Can be, there's been an explosion of DILFs, so the G can mean Grandad as well Grandma.

    Particularly adventurous may see it as Grandparents, so a ménage à trois.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I don't about the word 'mild' there, judging by what I went through last weekend. :smiley:
    I was a bit tired and achy - nothing too drastic and sure beats laying in hospital gasping for breath.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,211
    gealbhan said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    gealbhan said:

    Floater said:

    If this is true - then fuck them

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9383491/Ursula-von-der-Leyen-threatens-halt-exports-vaccines-bloc-doesnt-deliveries-first.html

    Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of AstraZeneca vaccines if the EU does not receive its deliveries first, in a worsening row over delayed shipments that has caused international tensions.

    The EU chief told the British-Swedish pharmaceutical company it has to come through on deliveries to the bloc.

    In an interview with Germany's Funke media group she said: 'We have the option of banning a planned export.

    'That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries.'

    Rejoin? forget that shit

    Haven’t the Indians actually done and got away with what the EU merely threaten? The manufacturer should have been supplying external customer, but it’s been diverted for internal consumption instead - or am I interpreting the news explanations of April lumpyness incorrectly?

    Not really.
    They too are experiencing production problems - in this case because they can’t procure sufficient raw materials and disposable equipment (eg culture medium, and filters).
    With sufficient supplies, they could be producing a lot more.
    That’s good then. Because the moment a nation does go and do it, it sets a precedent.
    The Indians claim supplies are hampered by the US Defence Production Act, the invocation of which has prevented the export of key goods.

    What’s clear is that there are still a number of materials bottlenecks in global vaccine production.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Sandpit said:

    I see VDL is telling the massive lie again...

    Ms von der Leyen said the EU's contract with AstraZeneca states that vaccines destined for the bloc would be produced in both EU and UK plants, "but we haven't received anything from the Brits".

    "I can't explain to European citizens why we are exporting millions of vaccine doses to countries that are producing vaccines themselves and aren't sending us anything back," she said.

    _----------

    AZN should sue her.

    They’re quickly going to be left with very little choice in the matter, given the apparently co-ordinated trashing of their reputation.

    Talk about no good deed going unpunished.
    I would think that they will wait until VDL breaks the contract in an unambiguous way. She has form for that. Then take it court.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited March 2021

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    RobD said:

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others suggest it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others make suggest it.
    "What the EU wants, the EU gets."
  • RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    Only a week or so since the last murder....how quickly people forget - especially when politics takes over.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    ClippP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    A lot of us, I think, would not recognise a porn term if we saw it, Ms Cyclefree. The number of perverts here is more limited that you might think.
    That's the point, though, isn't it? We don't recognise where it comes from. Some see it as as using banter if a bit crude. Others do recognise it and dislike it.

    In the meanwhile the pornification of our language continues. What we say about people reveals what we think about them. That applies to women just as much as it does to black people. Or any other group.

    As I wrote last week-

    "We might also want to consider whether the pornification of much of our media and the normalisation of porn are a good thing. The view that it gives of women is not one calculated to induce respect or indeed a realistic view of sexual relations or female sexuality. Not an easy topic. No-one wants a Mary Whitehouse-style Puritanism. But attitudes and behaviour are formed by many factors. If we really want to change the former we need to address why people have the views they do."

    Judging by the stories in today's Times about what has been going on in some of our more prestigious public schools we urgently need to address the question of why people - let's be blunt - many (not all) young men have the attitudes towards women they do.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others make suggest it.
    "What the EU wants, the EU gets."
    Cartman wants the new iPad episode of South Park comes to mind.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,995
    edited March 2021
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    I seem to recall some of the weirder PBers consider Truss a MILF. Pretty sure a big scarlet A stuck on at the beginning won't put them off.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    With Labour supporters the sexism goes very deep...especially when Tories are concerned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,659
    edited March 2021
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    You mean you think homosexual are deviants who deserve to locked up and chemically castrated?

    That was mainstream at the time.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    ydoethur said:

    Would be interested to see the figure for Ireland, particularly given many seem to be slipping across the border to get vaccinated there if they can.

    Edited because on reflection my language was unfairly slanted.
    I would be interested to know the actual number of people who from the ROI are being vaccinated in the North.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    I have this vision of Justin as Mr Cholmondley-Warner.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
  • Inspired by the topic, I was looking up the youngest major US Presidential candidate so far - William Jennings Bryan, aged 36 in 1896 as it turns out.

    I thought Wikipedia had an astonishingly modern looking photo of the man on the campaign trail way back then... which I'll try to show below but have never tried posting a photo on here before so may not work.



  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    Quite possible.

    There was one term earlier that I had not encountered.

    I know far more than I used to as I worked in IT in a City bank for a year or two.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to halt exports of the AstraZeneca vaccine if the bloc does not receive its promised deliveries first.

    "We have the option of banning a planned export. That's the message to AstraZeneca: you fulfil your contract with Europe first before you start delivering to other countries," Ms von der Leyen told Germany's Funke media group.

    ----------

    Thet are going to do it, aren't they.

    They are just completing their contracts in the order they were received.
    It is telling, though almost understandable, that their position is that no matter what their contract comes first, no matter what other contracts exist (and no matter what theirs actually says). A position I imagine they think is very unreasonable when others make suggest it.
    "What the EU wants, the EU gets."
    Cartman wants the new iPad episode of South Park comes to mind.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbebjUYItKw
  • TimT said:

    Hmm, as indicated in the presser the other day, the vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization and death is published here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

    (Not sure if this has been previously linked.)

    As I expected, nowhere near 100% effectiveness against serious disease or death in over 70s. Good protection, excellent even, but not nearly 100%. We need to not get carried away.

    --AS

    Don't know what the previous discussion was about, but this is data for test 14+ days after 1st dose.

    Protection increases after 1st dose until about 22 days after vaccination, and increases further up to 14 days after 2nd dose. So the figures cited in this report are pretty much the lowest levels of protection provided by vaccination once it starts to provide any degree of protection, not the level of protection once full protection is achieved 14 days after 2nd dose.
    You're right that they aggregate 14+ days (by test result) in the protections against hospitalization/death, and I had forgotten that this will reflect infections that occurred, say, 9+ days after.

    Nonetheless, it's reasonable to believe that many of those hospitalizations and deaths were in the 21+ day group. I wish they had broken that out, because they show protection against *symptoms* is much stronger at 21+ and pretty much finished at 28+ (even a 2nd dose adds rather little to this, though confidence is low). I guess we'll have to wait for a later report.

    I've just been concerned about some comments here predicting near-100% protection against death, which is incompatible with Israel data.

    --AS
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2021
    Cyclefree said:



    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.

    I agree -- let's hope the candidate has the good sense to apologize -- especially given the context.

    Because this is in the context of a by-election in which the previous Labour MP has resigned because of alleged sexual harassment.

    We have yet to actually hear the details of all this -- but it looks like more bad publicity for sexist Labour.

    Whatever, it is clear already that Labour thinks it less damaging to have a by-election in early May than wait till after the tribunal when the details will be in the public domain.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-56436341

    And the victim is certainly scathing about the support the Labour party offered.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    England going to be chasing 200 here.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
    May as well be.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Flag and Queen...Beeboids choking on their oat milk organic overnight oats.

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1373228545644855296?s=19

    All we need know is a picture of Meghan and Harry in the background with a big red line through it and the choking will be complete
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    Don’t forget that he was also one of the most prominent Parliamentary ‘Remoaners’ in a seat that voted 70/30 for Brexit, and was defeated at the 2019 election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    Labour did lose the seat in 1959!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    If this had been done by a Tory candidate Starmer and his cronies would have been all over it like a rash. The hypocrisy is extraordinary and blatant and within a few days of a vicious murder they already tried to weaponise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    Make it 250 that England will be chasing....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
    Just possibly, it was not a literaly description.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Labour have been pushing for a law against Misogyny this week

    Then exclude all women from the Longlist, and impose a man who tweets one of the most debasing terms possible in respect of Tory "Mothers I'd like to Fuck", on Hartlepool Labour Members

    This is a seat Labour has never ever lost before.

    IMO its a disaster waiting to happen

    If this had been done by a Tory candidate Starmer and his cronies would have been all over it like a rash. The hypocrisy is extraordinary and blatant and within a few days of a vicious murder they already tried to weaponise.
    "I can't be guilty of X, I am a member of the Labour Party!"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021
    gealbhan said:

    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    This discussion cements my view that the Dems look very week going into 2024.

    There is a certain tendency to assume that the players in 2024 will be the same as 2020.

    Sure we had heard of Biden in 2016, and Sanders, Warren too, but who had heard of Buttigeig, O'Rorke, Harris or Klobuchar?

    It isn't quite true that there are no second acts in American lives, but second chances are rare.
    I was just going to say what a good idea to use a selfie as your avatar and then you changed it
    Just feeling a bit more Puritanical this morning, in the long and honourable tradition of English Radicalism. 🙂
    What did I read Puritanism defined as the other day - the desperate fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having fun? Or is that socialism?

    Anyway, hopefully it will pass for you. :smiley:
    No, Puritanism is about the inner life, standing apart from the corruption of the world.

    There are a lot of secular Puritans now, particularly but not exclusively on the Left and Greens.

    It is a contrasting strand of English tradition to the aristocratic cavaliers. Different labels now but the same tradition. One of my favourite Cromwell quotes on the subject:

    "I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a Gentle-man and is nothing else."

    And that is how he won...
    He lost. A wobbly Protectorate very much in office but not in power (financially hamstrung and living in likelihood of of counter revolution in other words) unsustainable after his death. The radicals and socialist who helped put him there he thoroughly stitched up and used his militia to hunt down.

    Puritanism is basically just protest to what they saw as a Catholic faith which had lost its way and a religion needing reform to the degree of a reset. Defined by not what it is, but by what it’s determined not to be.
    No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.

    To understand the mind of the Puritan I would say read Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress or Grace Abounding. There is an emotional side combined with a rigid self-discipline. Canterbury Tales are a good contrast to show Catholic "style" imo.

    Puritanism was partly about a democratisation of priest-style spirituality away from the priesthood.

    For modern politics, my chosen comparison would be the doctrinaire side of Militant. Dave Nellist and similar, with a strong link between belief and personal practice. For a community the most recent I would compare would be the Boer Voortrekkers, though I am sure there are many contemporary similars.

    There are a couple of intriguing MPs who self-consciously lived simply rather than engage in expenses-farming a few years ago. They may be of a similar spirit.

    As a titbit, as far as I am aware it was a Non-conformist Minister who first defended freedom of conscience for atheists, just after 1600.

    Must be Saturday :smile: .
    “No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.‘.

    Gloves off straight away. My understanding of history is cardboard cut out. 😦

    Puritan is Protestant - Protest movement against how the Catholic Church has lost its way, become corrupt. It’s defined by not wanting to be associated with the Catholic Church, the Civil War itself inspired by a drift in Churches towards Catholic worship.

    And was the Protectorate not weak and wobbly? What was it actually for. Did it actually want to behead the King, was it for that? Would it have happened if the King had been less determined to die a martyr? We can see from the Putney Debates and the violence against radicals that followed, the protectorate had no interest in going radical. And through its diplomacy it was quite happy to build bridges with Catholic powerhouses across Europe. If it had lasted another 10 years, where was it actually going?
    Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.

    I was reacting strongly against the idea that Puritanism is defined *in opposition* to something else, rather than as a positive movement in its own right with its own identity. I think it is more than that. *

    I'd also question the "English" part of the definition, and make it far more on an arc through the much of Europe.

    Have a good day.

    “ Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.”

    I don’t know what to say. I feel embarrassed now. I was not greatly offended. I come to this blog to learn, not lecture. And the reformation and what spills out from it, is a huge topic I accept in my lifetime I will only have a cardboard cutout understanding of.

    As a sort of follow on, how well is the Reformation understood, not just by those who don’t read history books, but by those who write them? It was big, aggressive, bloody, but If I was to offer a cardboard cut out one line to sum it up - it was an argument how much magic you can have in a religion, and how much of that magic has become a money making con trick - how accurate is that summing up?
    In that case I apologise for embarrassing you by apologising for offending you when you were not really offended. I feel like the Consignia logo.


    :smile:

    I think it depends on the scope of your enquiry.

    With Reformation with a capital-R, are you referring to the changes in Governance in the UK - up to arguably the Glorious Revolution, or would you expand it to - for example - include events in Europe such as the 30 Years' War.

    As a cardboard cutout of the Luther Event, I think that is a decent summary - but probably a summary from a Protestant slant, as the orthodox Roman Catholic view would surely be that the 'hocus-pocus' is not magic but a Sacrament, and that the abuse of indulgences is an abuse of a valid concept - and so not to question the validity of the concept.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MILF is a term I had never previously encountered. I doubt that I am alone.

    Nice try
    It happens to be a fact. Having had it explained, it appears far less serious than clear evidence of a candidate or MP having been an adulterer - Liz Truss aka 'the Tory Trollop' comes to mind.
    Sorry, what?
    Justin a social conservative, a pre Plantagenet social conservative.

    Have you forgotten his soliloquies on bastards?
    No I hold the views on such matters that would have been mainstream at the time of the Profumo Affair.
    Basically the same thing then.
    Mid-1963 is not quite pre-Plantagenet.
    Just possibly, it was not a literaly description.
    The year of The Beatles - Harold Wilson became Labour Leader - Kennedy assasination - TW3. It was just a few years ago!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532
    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:



    I am so glad you got there first. I really dislike this term. I explained on the thread last Sunday exactly why so won't repeat it as the details are horrible. It is so dismissive and contemptuous. Ugh!

    I don't know anything about this candidate so I hope he'd have the good sense to apologise and understand why this is not a nice thing to say and why. That - rather than banishing him to outer darkness - might actually do some good.

    I'd say pragmatism would have been not having that chat in public, and then wiping the slate before entering public life.
    The explanation from YBard pinning down the issue was helpful - I do see the point. It's not something I use myself, but I wasn't really sure why not except for a vague sense of bad taste.

    But yes, he apologised - BBC report says "Dr Williams said his comments were "inappropriate and I am sorry for using such language". He added: "They were from a decade ago, which doesn't diminish the fact that they were wrong, but I want to reassure people that I wouldn't dream of making comments like this now."

    Possibly also relevant that he wasn't involved in any public campaigning at the time - he was just a private individual, but presumably someone has gone through all the tweets he's ever sent. It's something for would-be politicians to think about these days when most young people have social media histories - rather as though every conversation one's ever had was recorded and examined by opponents.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,080
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Would be interested to see the figure for Ireland, particularly given many seem to be slipping across the border to get vaccinated there if they can.

    Edited because on reflection my language was unfairly slanted.
    I would be interested to know the actual number of people who from the ROI are being vaccinated in the North.
    I gather ROI Covid-19 precautions include no-one travelling more than 5km from home. So it will be people within 5km of the border.

    I was pleased to read that NI are doing this, but absolutely take on board the feelings of mainland UK people who are still waiting to be jabbed.

    However if it is only the very close ROI people who are getting the vaccines, that does seem to me a good reason. It would be akin to vaccinating Hampshire but not the near neighbours in Wiltshire.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    MattW said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    This discussion cements my view that the Dems look very week going into 2024.

    There is a certain tendency to assume that the players in 2024 will be the same as 2020.

    Sure we had heard of Biden in 2016, and Sanders, Warren too, but who had heard of Buttigeig, O'Rorke, Harris or Klobuchar?

    It isn't quite true that there are no second acts in American lives, but second chances are rare.
    I was just going to say what a good idea to use a selfie as your avatar and then you changed it
    Just feeling a bit more Puritanical this morning, in the long and honourable tradition of English Radicalism. 🙂
    What did I read Puritanism defined as the other day - the desperate fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having fun? Or is that socialism?

    Anyway, hopefully it will pass for you. :smiley:
    No, Puritanism is about the inner life, standing apart from the corruption of the world.

    There are a lot of secular Puritans now, particularly but not exclusively on the Left and Greens.

    It is a contrasting strand of English tradition to the aristocratic cavaliers. Different labels now but the same tradition. One of my favourite Cromwell quotes on the subject:

    "I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a Gentle-man and is nothing else."

    And that is how he won...
    He lost. A wobbly Protectorate very much in office but not in power (financially hamstrung and living in likelihood of of counter revolution in other words) unsustainable after his death. The radicals and socialist who helped put him there he thoroughly stitched up and used his militia to hunt down.

    Puritanism is basically just protest to what they saw as a Catholic faith which had lost its way and a religion needing reform to the degree of a reset. Defined by not what it is, but by what it’s determined not to be.
    No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.

    To understand the mind of the Puritan I would say read Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress or Grace Abounding. There is an emotional side combined with a rigid self-discipline. Canterbury Tales are a good contrast to show Catholic "style" imo.

    Puritanism was partly about a democratisation of priest-style spirituality away from the priesthood.

    For modern politics, my chosen comparison would be the doctrinaire side of Militant. Dave Nellist and similar, with a strong link between belief and personal practice. For a community the most recent I would compare would be the Boer Voortrekkers, though I am sure there are many contemporary similars.

    There are a couple of intriguing MPs who self-consciously lived simply rather than engage in expenses-farming a few years ago. They may be of a similar spirit.

    As a titbit, as far as I am aware it was a Non-conformist Minister who first defended freedom of conscience for atheists, just after 1600.

    Must be Saturday :smile: .
    “No, that's a cardboard cutout. Foxy has it.‘.

    Gloves off straight away. My understanding of history is cardboard cut out. 😦

    Puritan is Protestant - Protest movement against how the Catholic Church has lost its way, become corrupt. It’s defined by not wanting to be associated with the Catholic Church, the Civil War itself inspired by a drift in Churches towards Catholic worship.

    And was the Protectorate not weak and wobbly? What was it actually for. Did it actually want to behead the King, was it for that? Would it have happened if the King had been less determined to die a martyr? We can see from the Putney Debates and the violence against radicals that followed, the protectorate had no interest in going radical. And through its diplomacy it was quite happy to build bridges with Catholic powerhouses across Europe. If it had lasted another 10 years, where was it actually going?
    Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.

    I was reacting strongly against the idea that Puritanism is defined *in opposition* to something else, rather than as a positive movement in its own right with its own identity. I think it is more than that. *

    I'd also question the "English" part of the definition, and make it far more on an arc through the much of Europe.

    Have a good day.

    “ Apologies if I offended - that was not intended.”

    I don’t know what to say. I feel embarrassed now. I was not greatly offended. I come to this blog to learn, not lecture. And the reformation and what spills out from it, is a huge topic I accept in my lifetime I will only have a cardboard cutout understanding of.

    As a sort of follow on, how well is the Reformation understood, not just by those who don’t read history books, but by those who write them? It was big, aggressive, bloody, but If I was to offer a cardboard cut out one line to sum it up - it was an argument how much magic you can have in a religion, and how much of that magic has become a money making con trick - how accurate is that summing up?
    In that case I apologise for embarrassing you by apologising for offending you when you were not really offended. I feel like the Consignia logo.


    :smile:

    I think it depends on the scope of your enquiry.

    With Reformation with a capital-R, are you referring to the changes in Governance in the UK - up to arguably the Glorious Revolution, or would you expand it to - for example - include events in Europe such as the 30 Years' War.

    As a cardboard cutout of the Luther Event, I think that is a decent summary - but probably a summary from a Protestant slant, as the orthodox Roman Catholic view would surely be that the 'hocus-pocus' is not magic but a Sacrament, and that the abuse of indulgences is an abuse of a valid concept - and so not to question the validity of the concept.
    There is also the matter of what other abuses were going on.

    Consider

    - The scandals effecting the modern Church(es)
    - In late medieval times the massive power of the church to protect offenders and prevent accusations against them
    - Human nature hasn't changed.

    Sum all that up and add in the utter fury with which a fair chunk of the Reformation was conducted. Personal, savage anger......
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    I think Drakeford has stolen Sturgeon's doses!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2021
    Just been Astra Zenecaed - very efficient process - in fact faster than the time it took to make the appointment - they're doing 1.2% of the adult population today and 1.8% on Monday.

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1373274048998871042?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    MaxPB said:

    I think Drakeford has stolen Sturgeon's doses!
    In all seriousness, what do we think is going on? Different levels of stockpiling for 2nd doses in case EU have another Cartman meltdown?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,542
    Cyclefree said:

    ClippP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:



    By the way, as a thoroughly woke leftist, I'm struggling to understand what critics think is so terrible about the centrist Hartlepool candidate having talked about Tory MILFs who he fancied 10 years ago. I remember the Nottingham Post doing a poll on Most Fanciable East Midlands MP" (yeah, was a slow news week) - IIRC I came second (to Alan Simpson in the not very challenging contest and was amused rather than insulted. The MILF term is a bit crude but not really objectifying.

    Fanciable and MILF are NOT the same.

    Are you really so dense that you can't understand that a porn grouping is offensive?

    Not least, the underlying sub-text is Mums are not worth shagging after giving birth, they are too ancient and haggard, but even so here is a MILF, one I'd like to fuck.

    MILF might be excusable if said by a sad-sack , teenage virgin ... but by a Labour PPC, no way.

    After a few years of wokeness, we are unfortunately back to 'Iraq War' Palmer, justifying the unjustifiable on pb.com because it is the Labour party doing it.

    Go on, say it Nick, it was just bantz.
    No, I'm allowing myself in semi-retirement to be honest about things I don't get. I've heard MILF used in non-porn contexts, and it's obviously crude but not usually intended to be insulting. That said, I see what you mean about the subtext - thanks.
    I'm with Nick. Milf has crossed over from porn to just mid-level crude. Cruder than 'totty'. Less crude than 'crack'. (Both of which feel curiously dated now).
    The fact that no-one (other than me, seemingly) seems concerned at the way porn terms - and the attitudes underlying them - are crossing into common usage is in itself a problem. IMO.
    A lot of us, I think, would not recognise a porn term if we saw it, Ms Cyclefree. The number of perverts here is more limited that you might think.
    That's the point, though, isn't it? We don't recognise where it comes from. Some see it as as using banter if a bit crude. Others do recognise it and dislike it.

    In the meanwhile the pornification of our language continues. What we say about people reveals what we think about them. That applies to women just as much as it does to black people. Or any other group.

    As I wrote last week-

    "We might also want to consider whether the pornification of much of our media and the normalisation of porn are a good thing. The view that it gives of women is not one calculated to induce respect or indeed a realistic view of sexual relations or female sexuality. Not an easy topic. No-one wants a Mary Whitehouse-style Puritanism. But attitudes and behaviour are formed by many factors. If we really want to change the former we need to address why people have the views they do."

    Judging by the stories in today's Times about what has been going on in some of our more prestigious public schools we urgently need to address the question of why people - let's be blunt - many (not all) young men have the attitudes towards women they do.

    Here is the difficulty with all of this. Restrictions on expression (which was widespread until quite recently) entail constant and unremitting attack from liberals, lawyers, free speechers and left leaners (see for example John Mortimer from the old days passim.) .

    Unrestricted and unlimited expression is, effectively, what we have, (about and for +18s) and its consequences entail constant and unremitting attack from some of the same people + lots of others.

    (Incidentally the under 18/16 bar leads to the absurdity that in law it is illegal for two 15 year olds to have a snog - a splendid effort to abolish human nature.)

    Nearly every thinking person wants a middle ground, and so far as I can see such middle ground would only be available on the impossible condition that people freely agree to self limitation. For commercial reasons, as well as human nature reasons, that is not going to happen, any more than we are freely going to stop getting drunk or being a slob.

  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
  • FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    Everything has gone rubbish for England since some PBers started praising England on Thursday and said we were going to win on Thursday.

    Exiling them to ConHome is too good for them.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Scott_xP said:
    Is this a clever way for the SNP to get the findings of the report thrown out, as it is now tainted?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083

    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
    But only the right type of runs....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
    But only the right type of runs....
    And we won't use those runs today, but put them in a vault somewhere safe
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    On the dreaded sunshine holidays:

    Dr Mike Tildesley, a member of the scientific pandemic influenza group on modelling, a Sage sub-group, said the increases in Europe made foreign summer holidays look “extremely unlikely”. He said travellers risked bringing back new variants of coronavirus that may be less affected by vaccines.

    “I think that international travel this summer is, for the average holidaymaker, sadly I think extremely unlikely,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme. “I think we are running a real risk if we do start to have lots of people going overseas in July and August because of the potential for bringing more of these new variants back into the country.

    “What is really dangerous is if we jeopardise our vaccination campaign by having these variants where the vaccines don’t work as effectively spreading more rapidly.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/20/covid-rise-europe-may-thwart-uk-plans-ease-lockdown-experts

    Do we think that, assuming the unlocking timetable isn't derailed anyway, the Government will give in to the pressure to allow mass tourism abroad or not? I freely confess I'm not at all sure - though past performance does rather suggest that the answer may be "Yes, for as long as it takes to import an exciting selection of new variants, followed by a reverse ferret amidst an atmosphere of blind panic," but we shall see.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited March 2021

    FFS, everything is going wrong for England. More of a disaster than the EU vaccine programme.

    If India don’t give us some of their runs we will see them in court.
    So long as the EU doesn’t ban points going from Italy to Scotland.
This discussion has been closed.