McConnell’s impeachment move means Trump looks set to serve a full term and there’ll be no President

MarqueeMark said:

ydoethur said:

Malmesbury said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".

Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.

He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.

Just like Gordon Brown.

Further proof that Trump is a socialist.

Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.

I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.

It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.

Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum.
Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.

I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....

"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."

Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".

Mussolini and Mosley were both Socialists at one point."

*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.

The tinfoil hat I can understand. But why did you grab the ducks as well?

kle4 said:

noneoftheabove said:

kle4 said:

MrEd said:

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.

However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.

That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.

Agreed. A much easier way to knock out potential rivals.

Yes, not sure how it can be justified to prevent him from seeking office if it is considered he has not done enough to be convicted. If they want the former they really have to do the latter.

That many who might convict think there's a chance they don't need to do thta to prevent him running, that events will do that for them, is another reason conviction will likely fail. Why stick your neck out if you think the problem will take care of itself?

Money? Whilst Trumps base might largely fund his and his surrogates activities, the likes of McConnell rely on corporate donors who are not going to play with Trumpism still around, at least for the next 2 years.

Money and the worry that Trump will continue to be a force in the party are the only reasons I could see most of them deciding to convict. The latter they might think they can deal with over time anyway, so the former really needs to be strong in their minds, and the belief that the corporate doners won't change their tune over time.

Nigelb said:

As this points out, provoking media storms over the minutiae of the PM’s exercise habits is not just irrelevant, but crowds out discussion and messaging on the single thing which would make the most difference.
And which government policy has barely addressed, compared to all their other efforts.

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349468460238172160

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".

Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.

He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.

Just like Gordon Brown.

Further proof that Trump is a socialist.

Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.

I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.

It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.

Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum.
Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.

I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....

"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."

Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".

I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ.
Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.

The fact you are interested in talking about politics puts your survival in Stalins idea of Utopia at about 50% - just as a start.

I need to dig the book off my shelf - actually recommended it the other day. Chap went to Germany after the war and befriended some small town people. Got them talking about their trajectory. The way they disconnected from/ignored the "bad" bits of the program has a resonance in the way people talk(ed) about the "good" bits of Stalinism and ignored the whole gulag thing.

50%>0% still.

eek said:

TOPPING said:

eek said:

The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Say what?

Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.

The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.

His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.

And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...

My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division

Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period

But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.

What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?

Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.

Lock him up to shut him up!

You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come

Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.

He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.

He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance

Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him

Your view is the view of Neville Chamberlain.

Now that is silly

If the insurgents had lynched Pence, Pelosi and several dozen Democrat Senators and Representatives, and a few dissenting GOP lawmakers to boot, make no mistake, Trump would have taken it.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".

Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.

He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.

Just like Gordon Brown.

Further proof that Trump is a socialist.

Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.

I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.

It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.

Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum.
Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.

I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....

"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."

Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".

I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ.
Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.

Most ordinary people just tend to go along with whatever will give them an easy life. It takes a special sort of person to stick their head above the parapet when you risk getting it blown off.

I've heard many stories from my German MIL about how people generally just accepted what their leaders told them. In particular, the characterisation of other nationalities and races as being inferior to Germans was, by many, simply thought of as normal. It's not as if the belief in the superiority of one's own culture is such an unusual trait, and from there it's not a long step towards the dehumanisation of others.

BluestBlue said:

kinabalu said:

Mary_Batty said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1349641979555147776?s=20

Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.

The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.

The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.

Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.

Mmm.
Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence.
Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him.
Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures.
Wonder what else he isn't?

I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.

But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.

MaxPB said:

Malmesbury said:

bigjohnowls said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/redouad/status/1349660737522827265?s=20

Are we at nearly 5% of our population?

4% first doses (includes those who have had a second dose as well)

First doses - 2,639,309
Total population from ONS data - 66,796,807

It's 5% of the the 53m that are eligible.

TOPPING said:

Flatlander said:

TOPPING said:

Flatlander said:

TOPPING said:

NerysHughes said:

eek said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

AlistairM said:

I made a comment yesterday that there were likely to be big geographical differences in vaccination rates. Just heard another anecdote.

My parents (78 and 72) are in Berkshire near Reading and they haven't been contacted yet about their vaccines. They have a friend who is closer to Reading who is 71 and has their vaccination scheduled for today. Meanwhile my 84 year old father in law in Buckinghamshire has not heard anything.

If this situation goes further out of line then I can see this becoming an issue. Particularly if some locations get through the top 4 priority groups and then start on the rest whilst some parts of the country are still well behind.

Especially if it turns out that the North is missing out or that certain deprived postcodes aren't getting supplies and so on.

A lot of it depends on how proactice surgeries are. In Southampton some surgeries have got through their 80+ people and are now moving on to their 75+ . Others have barely done any.

Currently I think it's logistics that are the issue as Pfizer has complex requirements.

From memory Southampton University Hospital is a hub so moving that vaccine around Southampton is so much easier than say South Cumbria where the nearest hub is Carlisle.

The difference between neighbouring surgeries in Southampton is remarkable.

As with so much with the NHS. You need pointy elbows and to shout loudly to get just about anything done.

I would bet those surgeries with the vaccine were pro-active; those without were/are still waiting to be contacted.

If you are elderly and turn up looking confused or weak many places will assume you are always like that.

A friend had a treatable bone cancer but turned up in a bit of a state due to a calcium imbalance. She was given a week or so by the first doctor and effectively consigned to the bin. Once her daughter turned up and pointed out that, no, this wasn't her normal state someone actually looked and found the problem. She is still going 2 years later, as once the treatment started the service was fine.

A similar thing happened to my Dad when he had an infection (which often causes dementia-like symptoms). I had to be there to say - no, this isn't normal, look again.

Not everywhere is like that, but...

Sorry to be late responding but abso-bloody-lutely. Sadly a very familiar-type story.

Mine was that my mother (89yrs old at the time) had water on the brain. Which for all the world presents like a doddering, dementia-y 89yr old. It rapidly deteriorated so she was unable to walk/talk/etc. Dementia/age they said. Except there were key symptoms and causes. Which the NHS simply did not (choose to?) address.

It was left to my sister and google overnight (literally for 10 hours) to unpick the condition, the symptoms and then make a diagnosis. We then took that to the doctors and after *a lot* of pushing, quite nasty at times tbh, they accepted it, took action, and finally treated her for it. She is now playing chess with me in person and with her granddaughters online and still has the odd game of online scrabble with her scrabble club.

Time and time again left to its own devices the NHS will simply not bother, or does not have the organisational structure to make the extra effort.

Yikes.

I don't know if it is institutional, individuals, or just that doctors and staff are too busy. I'd like to believe the 'too busy' explanation but I'm not convinced. It seems to be discrimination based on prejudice.

In a horrible piece of irony, the (not terribly old) doctor that gave the friend a week to live died of Covid. Never send to know...

Yes I've no idea. I'd like to believe the too busy reason also but then one wonders what they are there in the first place for. Perhaps like in an exam if you panic and end up doing half of all of the questions rather than all of half of them.

What I saw in my incident (and in many other tales, such as your own, and those of friends - poke, and many people have them) was a disinclination to take more time to think about what *else* it could be, given that a straightforward diagnosis was available and acting on that diagnosis would mean minimising further effort and resource.

Now, I'm sure that in aggregate, thinking about what else a seemingly straightforward condition could be would be expensive and wasteful. But...what if you or I hadn't been there for our father and mother. They would have been left to rot. Almost literally.

Peter_the_Punter said:

dixiedean said:

eek said:

dixiedean said:

BluestBlue said:

kinabalu said:

Mary_Batty said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1349641979555147776?s=20

Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.

The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.

The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.

Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.

Mmm.
Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence.
Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him.
Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures.
Wonder what else he isn't?

I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.

But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.

Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.

It's worth being clear here.

If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.

True. There are numerous smaller examples too.
Here's one. John McCain.
All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican.
But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump.
Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary.
He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.

The list is a long one but nothing beats his decision to deny Covid instead of accepting the science and leading the country through it.

He could have won a landslide.

Nigelb said:

Thread on why lockdown rules, even with a high rate of compliance, aren’t working very effectively.

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349460083424567299

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349466181518970883

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349467287754076160

Which is what @MaxPB and others were banging on about months ago.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andy_JS said:

"This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
David Aaronovitch" (£)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

And that has been my argument this morning

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

The next two weeks are going to be exceptionally grim. Peak deaths, peak hospitalisations, peak winter cold, peak horror death pits. And at the end, the tax bill.

I find this cheering. Just two more weeks. Then you start to notice the slightly brighter evenings.

Tomorrow is meteorological midwinter.

It's cold, wet and miserable in Cannock. I've got two heaters on in my office and I'm still snuggled in a blanket.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andy_JS said:

"This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
David Aaronovitch" (£)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

And that has been my argument this morning

BluestBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Blue, damn it.

Sorry.

No problem - that's why we all go by weird handles on here, after all.

Though I do live in hope that PB is host to a coterie of peers of the realm who have for years patiently borne the over-familiarity of being addressed as 'you helm' and other friendly hypocoristics.

Flatlander said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

The next two weeks are going to be exceptionally grim. Peak deaths, peak hospitalisations, peak winter cold, peak horror death pits. And at the end, the tax bill.

I find this cheering. Just two more weeks. Then you start to notice the slightly brighter evenings.

Tomorrow is meteorological midwinter.

It's cold, wet and miserable in Cannock. I've got two heaters on in my office and I'm still snuggled in a blanket.

We have 2-3 inches of snow now. Even in the lowlands.

I'd get the cross-country skis out but I'm not sure Whitty would approve.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

eek said:

TOPPING said:

eek said:

The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Say what?

Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306

If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded

That's a 2 year old tweet regarding something we are discussing here.

Brexit is being drowned out by covid no matter how anyone tries to make issue with it

BluestBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Blue, damn it.

Sorry.

No problem - that's why we all go by weird handles on here, after all.

Though I do live in hope that PB is host to a coterie of peers of the realm who have for years patiently borne the over-familiarity of being addressed as 'you helm' and other friendly hypocoristics.

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

Mary_Batty said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

eek said:

TOPPING said:

eek said:

The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Say what?

Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306

If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded

That's a 2 year old tweet regarding something we are discussing here.

Brexit is being drowned out by covid no matter how anyone tries to make issue with it

Seems like you've spent most of your recent posts talking about the application or otherwise of legal remedies to people who try to overthrow democracy.

If it's ok for you to talk about things other than Covid-19, it's ok for others too.

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

Selebian said:

BluestBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Blue, damn it.

Sorry.

No problem - that's why we all go by weird handles on here, after all.

Though I do live in hope that PB is host to a coterie of peers of the realm who have for years patiently borne the over-familiarity of being addressed as 'you helm' and other friendly hypocoristics.

We do (according to autocomplete after @, which offers - I think - only 5 suggestions) have 5+ knights, 5+ lords, 2 ladies, 1 duke and even 1 prince. Exalted company indeed.

Plus those - such as myself - who consider it too vulgar to include Viscount etc in our handles

SandyRentool said:

Yesterday our niece started work in the Blackburn vaccination centre. In the cathedral crypt. Day one was a training day - jabbing should start on Monday.

She is a dentist, so hopefully won't try and inject folk in the gum, rather than the arm.

It made me take a step back and think about how much work is going in to setting up the centres, staffing them up, getting people trained, setting up logistical chains, contacting the public.

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

The next two weeks are going to be exceptionally grim. Peak deaths, peak hospitalisations, peak winter cold, peak horror death pits. And at the end, the tax bill.

I find this cheering. Just two more weeks. Then you start to notice the slightly brighter evenings.

Tomorrow is meteorological midwinter.

It's cold, wet and miserable in Cannock. I've got two heaters on in my office and I'm still snuggled in a blanket.

SandyRentool said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Blue, damn it.

Sorry.

Just refer to everyone as 'Comrade'. It's the best way!

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.

NerysHughes said:

Stocky said:

Nigelb said:

Thread on why lockdown rules, even with a high rate of compliance, aren’t working very effectively.

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349460083424567299

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349466181518970883

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349467287754076160

Which is what @MaxPB and others were banging on about months ago.

Yes, and though I support masks it links to my residual concern about mask-wearing: people WITH symptoms may feel that have more license to go out and about as long as they are wearing one.

Exactly!!

Leon said:

anothernick said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

eek said:

TOPPING said:

eek said:

The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Say what?

Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306

If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded

Quite, but this will be a slow burn that will continue for the forseeable future. People will gradually hear more about it as businesses incur more costs and, in some cases, close down completely as they can no longer sell profitably to the EU. And of course many significant areas of economic activity, like financial services, are now at the EU's mercy since the terms of future trading are largely unknown and subject to side agreements over which the UK has no leverage.

Or, there will be a period of quite severe hassle and cost, followed by a couple of years of wearisome readjustment, then we will adapt and realise there are actually some serious benefits and new opportunities - which there will be. And Brexit will recede forever.

The best analogy is a painful divorce from an unhappy but long lasting marriage. You have to split the house. All those shared possessions. Who gets them? Ugh. You move somewhere smaller. You miss the big garden. You don’t miss the endless bickering...

Then you realise you are now free. Self reliant. You meet someone else. You have fun again.

Peter_the_Punter said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Andy_JS said:

"This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
David Aaronovitch" (£)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

And that has been my argument this morning

It would be enormously to my personal satisfaction if the bastard were ground into the dirt but I am sure it would assist Joe Biden and the Democrats far more to have him hanging around like a bad smell for the next few years. So a minimal slap on the wrists would do just fine.

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.

Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

BluestBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Blue, damn it.

Sorry.

No problem - that's why we all go by weird handles on here, after all.

Though I do live in hope that PB is host to a coterie of peers of the realm who have for years patiently borne the over-familiarity of being addressed as 'you helm' and other friendly hypocoristics.

If not royalty, indeed....

I've often wondered whether you are in fact Marquess Mark and either modest or with fat fingers

Malmesbury said:

NerysHughes said:

Stocky said:

Nigelb said:

Thread on why lockdown rules, even with a high rate of compliance, aren’t working very effectively.

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349460083424567299

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349466181518970883

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349467287754076160

Which is what @MaxPB and others were banging on about months ago.

Yes, and though I support masks it links to my residual concern about mask-wearing: people WITH symptoms may feel that have more license to go out and about as long as they are wearing one.

Exactly!!

Any thought on the people (38%) isolating for more than 21 days?

Is this long COVID - people isolating because they *still* have symptoms?

RobD said:

noneoftheabove said:

SandyRentool said:

Yesterday our niece started work in the Blackburn vaccination centre. In the cathedral crypt. Day one was a training day - jabbing should start on Monday.

She is a dentist, so hopefully won't try and inject folk in the gum, rather than the arm.

It made me take a step back and think about how much work is going in to setting up the centres, staffing them up, getting people trained, setting up logistical chains, contacting the public.

Good for her, curiously though these steps are happening before we let our pharmacies, who do millions of flu jabs every year, get involved. (I think the first 6 pharmacies are just about to start).

They've already started administering it.

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.

Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...

The Serpent is a great disappointment. Such potential. Cracking true story. Love the locations.

But the narrative leaps about like a live bat in a red hot wok. Absurdly over complicated. And the accents...

Shame.

noneoftheabove said:

RobD said:

noneoftheabove said:

SandyRentool said:

Yesterday our niece started work in the Blackburn vaccination centre. In the cathedral crypt. Day one was a training day - jabbing should start on Monday.

She is a dentist, so hopefully won't try and inject folk in the gum, rather than the arm.

It made me take a step back and think about how much work is going in to setting up the centres, staffing them up, getting people trained, setting up logistical chains, contacting the public.

Good for her, curiously though these steps are happening before we let our pharmacies, who do millions of flu jabs every year, get involved. (I think the first 6 pharmacies are just about to start).

They've already started administering it.

But why only in 6 pharmacies if we are getting vets and other volunteers involved?

noneoftheabove said:

RobD said:

noneoftheabove said:

SandyRentool said:

Yesterday our niece started work in the Blackburn vaccination centre. In the cathedral crypt. Day one was a training day - jabbing should start on Monday.

She is a dentist, so hopefully won't try and inject folk in the gum, rather than the arm.

It made me take a step back and think about how much work is going in to setting up the centres, staffing them up, getting people trained, setting up logistical chains, contacting the public.

Good for her, curiously though these steps are happening before we let our pharmacies, who do millions of flu jabs every year, get involved. (I think the first 6 pharmacies are just about to start).

They've already started administering it.

But why only in 6 pharmacies if we are getting vets and other volunteers involved?

RobD said:

noneoftheabove said:

RobD said:

noneoftheabove said:

SandyRentool said:

Yesterday our niece started work in the Blackburn vaccination centre. In the cathedral crypt. Day one was a training day - jabbing should start on Monday.

She is a dentist, so hopefully won't try and inject folk in the gum, rather than the arm.

It made me take a step back and think about how much work is going in to setting up the centres, staffing them up, getting people trained, setting up logistical chains, contacting the public.

Good for her, curiously though these steps are happening before we let our pharmacies, who do millions of flu jabs every year, get involved. (I think the first 6 pharmacies are just about to start).

They've already started administering it.

But why only in 6 pharmacies if we are getting vets and other volunteers involved?

I don't know. I don't think there will only be six though.

BluestBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ms. Blue, if Trump were as competent as Agathocles of Syracuse he would've retained the presidency.

For this purpose I'd go with the amusingly-named Magas of Cyrene, who managed to make himself king in a manner that The Donald would envy.

p.s. I don't usually insist on titles, but if anything, it's 'Dr.' (formerly 'Mr.'), not 'Ms.'!

OldKingCole said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

off topic

Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.

Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...

Not going to watch the documentary on the Murders tonight? Might give a different angle.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Premier League: Aston Villa v Everton postponed because of Covid outbreak - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55644144

TOPPING said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

The next two weeks are going to be exceptionally grim. Peak deaths, peak hospitalisations, peak winter cold, peak horror death pits. And at the end, the tax bill.

I find this cheering. Just two more weeks. Then you start to notice the slightly brighter evenings.

Tomorrow is meteorological midwinter.

It's cold, wet and miserable in Cannock. I've got two heaters on in my office and I'm still snuggled in a blanket.

Here it is warm (for January), wet and miserable.

But we already have half an hour more daylight than we did in the depths of December

Snowing outside. Binned off my lunchtime ride.