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WH2020: Key state turnout as percentage of votes cast – politicalbetting.com

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    Thats what led to the 10pm pubs nonsense, cabinet couldnt agree, PM didnt lead so we ended up with a compromise that made it worse.

    Expect the same.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    "no choice" on national extreme lockdown says rent-a-zero-covid-zealot from Scotland.

    Of course there's a choice. That's what the Cabinet are supposed to decide.
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    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A U-turn, U -turn.
    630.

    Perhaps we will have tier 6.5 instead of tier 4.0?
    Maybe they just realised the presser clashed with the England rugby match
    Not particularly Churchillian, is it?

    "We will fight them on the beaches, but not until the ruggah is over. We will never surrender, except for crimbo hollybops."
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    Is this a massive problem 33.7m mail ballots outstanding?

    Total Early Votes: 90,012,433

    In-Person Votes: 32,663,560 •

    Mail Ballots Returned: 57,348,873 •

    Mail Ballots Outstanding: 33,680,976

    Good question. I presume there will always be a proportion of people who request ballots and then can't be arsed to return them. But +35% sounds high.

    Maybe they are in the post?
    Thats what worries me i am hoping a lot are received but not yet processed
    Two points:

    1) always lag between ballots being mailed back OR dropped in box, and their return being recorded & reported by election offices.

    2) in WA State (and my guess is many other jurisdictions) LARGE share of voters using drop boxes INSTEAD of mail, due to Trumpsky's highly publicized war against USPS; for example in King County (Seattle & burbs) over 70% of all returns via drop box, which is WAY up from August Primary AND despite fact that return-ballot postage is pre-paid.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,729
    LadyG said:

    It's time for the government to start giving us all heroin for free. That's the only way through this.

    The proportion even of PBers who enjoy both heroin and gin is, I think, a relatively small one.
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    Have we ever had three different Chancellors in a calendar year?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    Who the f cares what it is called?
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,365
    edited October 2020

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Will swimming pools and gyms have to close?

    For sure.
    Imagine you are that Liverpool gym guy. All the fighting you did to keep your business open.

    arbitrarily shut down with a wave of a hand by a highly paid medical advisor with big salary and a huge pension. That you are trying to finance by keeping your business open and paying taxes.

    As I have said before, these people are not vassals, they are voters. When the time comes, do the politicians of today honestly think they are going to get these votes, or millions of others?
    Seems like lots of these people did vote for the politicians in New Zealand, because in exchange for temporary disruption the virus was brought under control.

    I think that it's the incompetence of imposing lockdown, after lockdown, and still not bringing the virus under control that will be the problem for politicians in the UK.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    Thats what led to the 10pm pubs nonsense, cabinet couldnt agree, PM didnt lead so we ended up with a compromise that made it worse.

    Expect the same.
    Non National Tier 4 Lockdown involving all regional areas.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    Scott_xP said:
    Sunak has walked?
    Or threatened to. Shades of Justine Greening refusing to leave Dave's cabinet.
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    Have we ever had three different Chancellors in a calendar year?

    Robert Jenrick would make an excellent Chancellor. A proven track record of not giving away public money
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Even handed ;)

    Doesn’t seem right that the new lockdown guidelines are all leaked to a chosen few in the media prior to the press conference.
    Seems perfectly reasonable that the new lockdown guidelines are all leaked to a chosen few in the media prior to the press conference.

    — Gary Lineker (@GaryLineker) October 31, 2020
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,067
    Police and the Crown Prosecution Service have been handed a 225-page dossier urging them to investigate Dominic Cummings for allegedly perverting the course of justice, in relation to a statement about his journeys to the north-east of England at the height of the pandemic.

    The former regional chief prosecutor Nazir Afzal said Cummings’ claims during a press conference in Downing Street’s rose garden on 25 May affected the course of justice as they were made as Durham police’s investigation into his behaviour was already under way.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    What about the indomitable "Maureen" - not good enough for you guys because she's a working class woman?
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    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sunak has walked?
    Or threatened to. Shades of Justine Greening refusing to leave Dave's cabinet.
    Mrs May's cabinet.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,130

    So it looks like our trip to Barnard Castle on Thursday will be off. Genuinely we were going there.

    Reduced to being an Uber driver covering Westminster, just to make ends meet? Time for another fundraise if so.....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    So now that Peston has published the plan Bozo is having to change the plan to make Peston look poorly informed.

    Hence the further delay.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    I wonder if anyone at the press conference (if it happens) will ask Boris Johnson how soon he had previously expected the impact of the new Tier system* to start having an impact on 1) case numbers 2) hospitalisations 3) deaths?

    *implemented a couple of weeks ago, with some places only having been in their current tier for less than a week.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Lost in the wind behind the paywall.
    You can read a number of articles for free by registering. That's what I do.
    Of course. One can even pay!

    It's so very hard to find publications worth paying for though. The old-style broadsheets should be nailed-one, but they've so let themselves go. The weeklys - Speccy, Economist etc have merit, but also many faults.

    When I was at uni I subscibed to Private Eye and a monthly magazine called FMR -a sort of glossy art thing (perhaps mainly to make an impressive pigeon-hole). I couldn't afford these subscriptions, but that was my bank managers problem. I can say that I enjoyed every issue of these arrivals though.

    In recent years I've subscribed to a few publications - they simply aren't being read though. That may be partly me, but it's certainly in part that they're not living up to the repute. Admittedly that's likely due to the easy and good free content on the internet.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,067
    dixiedean said:

    Who the f cares what it is called?

    BoZo does

    https://twitter.com/BareReality/status/1306897564885831680
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,783
    dixiedean said:

    Who the f cares what it is called?
    Evidently "someone" in the No.10 team.....
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,067
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1322584358327377921

    So they leaked the change of time instead of fucking announcing it
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    So... On holiday in Cornwall this week. Will we have to come home before Thursday? Or can we stay until Saturday as planned and paid for?

    No, you will need to return by Thursday midnight I beleive
    Didn't you just book a foreign holiday?
    I was joking. Even the Canaries require a negative test, and organising all that AND a flight and hotel by Wednesday will be tricky.

    I will just have to do this one alone with my newts. And several hundred bottles of Rioja Gran Reserva
    I booked a test Thursday at 11pm and had it Midday Friday, you can do it!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,313
    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,557
    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.
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    Have we ever had three different Chancellors in a calendar year?

    Turns out the last time was 1970 with Jenkins, Macleod, and Barber.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655

    "no choice" on national extreme lockdown says rent-a-zero-covid-zealot from Scotland.

    Of course there's a choice. That's what the Cabinet are supposed to decide.

    If the government had followed the advice of Prof Devi Sridhar in the summer we would not be in this mess.
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    I take this guy's point - he's quite cogent - however if lockdowns are so utterly useless and damaging, why are they being enforced by: Germany, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Australia, Czechia, Iran, and previously in China, Singapore, etc?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1314236764857524231?s=20
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    What a parcel of rogues for a nation!
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,290
    What is happening re housing market?

    Are house moves being stopped?

    Including actual physical move of furniture?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    The chancellor, especially given previous reports?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1314236764857524231?s=20
    They seem quite on the ball with marketing, hopefully once Farage has descended, as you say, he will stand up for the decent sized minority who aren't in favour of lockdowns.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1322221435306332160?s=20
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1314236764857524231?s=20
    IF Trump wins, Farage will presumably come back to Britain with his campaign and his message and use it to relaunch the BP...??

    Dunno.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320

    Have we ever had three different Chancellors in a calendar year?

    Turns out the last time was 1970 with Jenkins, Macleod, and Barber.
    1924 as well - Chamberlain, Snowden, Churchill.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,526
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.

    Yes, this is the worst performance against a side from Rome since the battle of Zama.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    I think he's doing fine.

    His in-tray every morning is shit, his room for maneuver non-existent, his downside massive.

    I think he's doing fine.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Fake news. He's filling it with diesel.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    What about the indomitable "Maureen" - not good enough for you guys because she's a working class woman?
    Perfectly good enough for me.

    Trouble is, the tories aren't listening to her because she doesn't have slick, well oiled and powerful political machine behind her.

    And neither, for the record, does maverick Lawrence Fox.

    After Boris's latest blunder, if it goes ahead, millions of tory votes are going to be up for grabs.

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    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,130

    Scott_xP said:
    A U-turn, U -turn.
    630.

    Perhaps we will have tier 6.5 instead of tier 4.0?
    Let's follow the lead of the Goombay Dance Band - and have Seven Tiers......
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    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    TMay and John Major both had stints as Councillor on their CV; are there any other PMs?

    And although neither ended as a raging success, in terms of keeping on keeping on through horrible circumstances that weren't really their fault, they both had a certain something.

    It's the risk with Rishi, he's been in politics for about 30 minutes and we've not seen what he's like when his back is really against the wall. (Dishing out cash in a crisis is traumatic, but in a different way).
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    No matter, they are all going down together.
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    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    I think he's doing fine.

    His in-tray every morning is shit, his room for maneuver non-existent, his downside massive.

    I think he's doing fine.
    That's what Herbert Hoover's press flack was telling everybody 1930-32. And Neville Chamberlain's 1939 to May 1940.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320

    LadyG said:

    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.

    Yes, this is the worst performance against a side from Rome since the battle of Cannae.
    Eh? The Carthaginians rather famously won at Cannae!

    Do you mean Zama?
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    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our leaders should admit they’re totally lost

    Britain isn’t suffering from lockdown fatigue, it has just lost faith in the cocksure claims of politicians and scientists

    Matthew Parris" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/our-leaders-should-admit-theyre-totally-lost-gtpjzkr9p

    Nothing will happen until somebody new springs up to challenge the tories and labour.

    The only candidate right now is Farage and he has his head so far up Trump's backside he has no conception of what is going on
    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1314236764857524231?s=20
    That's the queue for the fancy dress shop.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    I'm rather enjoying Watch Dogs: Legion.
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    rcs1000 said:

    I'm rather enjoying Watch Dogs: Legion.

    Bit too close to reality, no?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Were I a minister, I think I would find it impossible to defend this.
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    ydoethur said:

    LadyG said:

    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.

    Yes, this is the worst performance against a side from Rome since the battle of Cannae.
    Eh? The Carthaginians rather famously won at Cannae!

    Do you mean Zama?
    My original post says Zama.

    It is fake news to say otherwise.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Sean_F said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Were I a minister, I think I would find it impossible to defend this.</blockquote

    Especially if, like Dominic Raab, you were defending the old policy to the hilt just yesterday.....
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    So... On holiday in Cornwall this week. Will we have to come home before Thursday? Or can we stay until Saturday as planned and paid for?

    Just stay, the only thing is that everything will be shut despite the incidence rate in SW England basically being nothing.
    That is what I am hoping we can do. We came here to do nothing anyway, maybe a few long walks and some sea air.
    But I am pretty sure hotels will be told to enforce the law: this will be policed. And you are only allowed to stay overnight outside your home for work from Thursday on, No more holidays.

    Of course if you are in some self catering or, even better, a 2nd home you'll probably be fine. You will be breaking the rules but no one will check.
    Has anyone seen any company 'enforcing' the law at all? I haven't.

    People are asked if they have done the track and trace. People say yes. That is it.

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Scott_xP said:
    A U-turn, U -turn.
    630.

    Perhaps we will have tier 6.5 instead of tier 4.0?
    Let's follow the lead of the Goombay Dance Band - and have Seven Tiers......
    The Tiers of a Clown...
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Johnson really should go.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    MikeL said:

    What is happening re housing market?

    Are house moves being stopped?

    Including actual physical move of furniture?

    How’s Mr Pioneers going to manage?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    I think he's doing fine.

    His in-tray every morning is shit, his room for maneuver non-existent, his downside massive.

    I think he's doing fine.
    That's what Herbert Hoover's press flack was telling everybody 1930-32. And Neville Chamberlain's 1939 to May 1940.
    "My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking."
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    I think he's doing fine.

    His in-tray every morning is shit, his room for maneuver non-existent, his downside massive.

    I think he's doing fine.
    That's what Herbert Hoover's press flack was telling everybody 1930-32. And Neville Chamberlain's 1939 to May 1940.
    You're quite right of course. I'm not sure Boris is straying so very far off course as those examples though.

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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,193

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
    What was Starmer actually calling for? Did he want schools to be shut?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    So... On holiday in Cornwall this week. Will we have to come home before Thursday? Or can we stay until Saturday as planned and paid for?

    Just stay, the only thing is that everything will be shut despite the incidence rate in SW England basically being nothing.
    That is what I am hoping we can do. We came here to do nothing anyway, maybe a few long walks and some sea air.
    But I am pretty sure hotels will be told to enforce the law: this will be policed. And you are only allowed to stay overnight outside your home for work from Thursday on, No more holidays.

    Of course if you are in some self catering or, even better, a 2nd home you'll probably be fine. You will be breaking the rules but no one will check.
    From the leaks so far, it appears to be a mix of "law" and "guidance". So you don't know that there will be any 'law' to enforce.

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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,126
    They've already fucked with Little Mix the Search, so if they delay Strictly too they are completely dead to me.
    BTW does everyone on PB agree that Starmer was right and displayed characteristic foresight in calling for the policy the government is now following, albeit too late?
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    LadyG said:

    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.

    I've got a tenner on France winning the title, so hopefully.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    The first senior minister to go over this will likely be next PM.

    My feeling is Boris might survive until the spring, but only, like Mrs May, to make sure he absorbs all the flack that is coming his way. Politically, IMO his career is over.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320

    ydoethur said:

    LadyG said:

    Now England are going to blow the championship. Brilliant.

    Yes, this is the worst performance against a side from Rome since the battle of Cannae.
    Eh? The Carthaginians rather famously won at Cannae!

    Do you mean Zama?
    My original post says Zama.

    It is fake news to say otherwise.
    I dunno, Oxbridge graduates.
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    So... On holiday in Cornwall this week. Will we have to come home before Thursday? Or can we stay until Saturday as planned and paid for?

    Just stay, the only thing is that everything will be shut despite the incidence rate in SW England basically being nothing.
    That is what I am hoping we can do. We came here to do nothing anyway, maybe a few long walks and some sea air.
    But I am pretty sure hotels will be told to enforce the law: this will be policed. And you are only allowed to stay overnight outside your home for work from Thursday on, No more holidays.

    Of course if you are in some self catering or, even better, a 2nd home you'll probably be fine. You will be breaking the rules but no one will check.
    From the leaks so far, it appears to be a mix of "law" and "guidance". So you don't know that there will be any 'law' to enforce.

    It has to be lockdown-by-law, this time, doesn't it? To give it credence and force.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    LadyG said:

    I take this guy's point - he's quite cogent - however if lockdowns are so utterly useless and damaging, why are they being enforced by: Germany, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Australia, Czechia, Iran, and previously in China, Singapore, etc?
    Lockdowns are useful in buying time to organise. We have proven we can't or won't do that so there's no point. Asian countries used them to buy time, we're using the to stop infections.
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    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    The first senior minister to go over this will likely be next PM.

    My feeling is Boris might survive until the spring, but only, like Mrs May, to make sure he absorbs all the flack that is coming his way. Politically, IMO his career is over.
    Agreed
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    They've already fucked with Little Mix the Search, so if they delay Strictly too they are completely dead to me.
    BTW does everyone on PB agree that Starmer was right and displayed characteristic foresight in calling for the policy the government is now following, albeit too late?
    Nope - both Starmer and the govt are wrong.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    They've already fucked with Little Mix the Search, so if they delay Strictly too they are completely dead to me.
    BTW does everyone on PB agree that Starmer was right and displayed characteristic foresight in calling for the policy the government is now following, albeit too late?
    No, they're both wrong.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is completely shit at doing the hard graft of politics.

    He’d have learned more from eight years as a Borough councillor than being dropped straight into London mayor and evading any scrutiny thereafter.
    TMay and John Major both had stints as Councillor on their CV; are there any other PMs?

    And although neither ended as a raging success, in terms of keeping on keeping on through horrible circumstances that weren't really their fault, they both had a certain something.

    It's the risk with Rishi, he's been in politics for about 30 minutes and we've not seen what he's like when his back is really against the wall. (Dishing out cash in a crisis is traumatic, but in a different way).
    Attlee was mayor of Stepney.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    The first senior minister to go over this will likely be next PM.

    My feeling is Boris might survive until the spring, but only, like Mrs May, to make sure he absorbs all the flack that is coming his way. Politically, IMO his career is over.
    Hope springs eternal. I suspect he has a bit more damage up his sleeve yet. Would be good to get rid before he forces a cold, hard Brexit on us on top of all of this.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320

    MikeL said:

    What is happening re housing market?

    Are house moves being stopped?

    Including actual physical move of furniture?

    How’s Mr Pioneers going to manage?
    It’s going to cause me some fairly significant headaches as well given the new extension isn’t finished yet. It should be finished this week (it’s outdoor work and anyway, I’m not in during the day) but it’s going to be a right bugger getting the furniture in if I can’t use a removal firm.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Maybe Sunak's just fed up of having to come up with new unaffordable economic packages at 10 minutes notice.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,883
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
    What was Starmer actually calling for? Did he want schools to be shut?
    For half term
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    ydoethur said:

    MikeL said:

    What is happening re housing market?

    Are house moves being stopped?

    Including actual physical move of furniture?

    How’s Mr Pioneers going to manage?
    It’s going to cause me some fairly significant headaches as well given the new extension isn’t finished yet. It should be finished this week (it’s outdoor work and anyway, I’m not in during the day) but it’s going to be a right bugger getting the furniture in if I can’t use a removal firm.
    Obviously don't know the rules, but given 'travel for work' will apparently be allowed, I don't see why removals would be stopped....
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    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    The first senior minister to go over this will likely be next PM.

    My feeling is Boris might survive until the spring, but only, like Mrs May, to make sure he absorbs all the flack that is coming his way. Politically, IMO his career is over.
    Hope springs eternal. I suspect he has a bit more damage up his sleeve yet. Would be good to get rid before he forces a cold, hard Brexit on us on top of all of this.
    Boris will be in place on the 1st January 2021 but not sure how far into 2021 he will last
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
    What was Starmer actually calling for? Did he want schools to be shut?
    He was being slightly opportunist, slightly reasonable, and mostly political.

    Labour have nothing to offer in all this, and that's sort of fine in that they're not alone. They've had nothing to offer since Blair anyway, and of course he had Brown.

    I'd give Starmer 10/10 for his leadership so far. I'm never going to vote Labour, but if I was then considering it Starmer is doing the right things.

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    The first senior minister to go over this will likely be next PM.

    My feeling is Boris might survive until the spring, but only, like Mrs May, to make sure he absorbs all the flack that is coming his way. Politically, IMO his career is over.
    Hope springs eternal. I suspect he has a bit more damage up his sleeve yet. Would be good to get rid before he forces a cold, hard Brexit on us on top of all of this.
    Boris will be in place on the 1st January 2021 but not sure how far into 2021 he will last
    Hanging around to deliver one further insult to the UK.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
    What was Starmer actually calling for? Did he want schools to be shut?
    Lockdown to coincide with school holidays.

    Obvious point that if had done this earlier, like when SAGE suggested or SKS suggested, then the same results could have been achieved in less time as there was less infection to work out of the system.
    To what end?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502
    UK R derived from case data

    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502
    UK cases by specimen date, scaled to 100K population

    image
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908



    BTW does everyone on PB agree that Starmer was right and displayed characteristic foresight in calling for the policy the government is now following, albeit too late?

    Lol - you've been on here long enough to know better!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320

    tlg86 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I suspect the delay is because they're agonising over exactly how to sell it without it seeming like a victory for Starmer. I don't imagine the delay is anything to do with reflecting on what's best for the national interest.

    Wonder if it's a resignation standoff, actually.

    Unlikely. From the clip of Steve Baker they just played on Sky even he seemed to understand that a lockdown had become necessary so no chance a Cabinet Minister will kill their career by appearing irresponsible over this.
    What about the guy who called Sir Keir Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' a few weeks ago?
    What was Starmer actually calling for? Did he want schools to be shut?
    For half term
    My understanding was he wanted a two-week half term break. Which would have made an enormous amount of sense on a very large number of levels.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,783
    Masterful! Just watched BBC1

    The Channels have cleared their schedules since 16.00.

    They have to fill the air with something.

    Who can they get?

    Government critics, that's who....
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502
    UK case summary

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    image
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,502
    edited October 2020
    UK R - derived from case and hospitalisation data

    image
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