Undefined discussion subject.

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

England case data - absolute

Malmesbury said:

England case data - absolute

...

The moles don't seem to be responding much to the whackings.

Its amusing to see the Tories being "reduced to just six Scottish seats" being described as "appalling".

It isn't that long ago the idea of six Tory MPs would have been considered brilliant remarkably good for the Tories. Cameron would have been happy to get six. Especially considering it is six time as many MPs as SLAB got.

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

rkrkrk said:

That Atlantic piece on Britain's COVID response is excellent reading.
Johnson is the wrong man at the wrong time. Suspect he knows it as well.

The Atlantic has had excellent coverage of Covid-19 generally neither alarmist nor denialist, and well sourced. Indeed so good that I have taken a subscription.

This article on QAnon is excellent too. The return of Salem Witchtrials and Mcarthyist conspiracies.

https://twitter.com/JeffreyGoldberg/status/1293388230507859971?s=09

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Do you really care? I used to. Now I don't.

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

Here was me thinking America was over it's second wave of deaths an it turns out yesterday was the highest number of deaths reported since the 27th of May (caveat, that's day of reporting figure not day of death)

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

Scots not keen on bumbling old etonian shocker.

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

You want a large share of the UK’s IOUs?

That’s generous of you.

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

Two different things, Malc. Currency needs a central bank.

Northern_Al said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Malmesbury said:

England case data - absolute

...

The moles don't seem to be responding much to the whackings.

And it looks to me like there may be a new mole appearing in the West Midlands - Birmingham, Sandwell, Wolverhampton, Dudley etc., which would be a big one to whack.

That’s been around for weeks. The question was always when rather than whether it would start running away and need locking down.

Equally, it’s a bit doubtful how effective a local lockdown would be there given large numbers of people would probably simply ignore it.

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

Would be a certain irony if it was the Royal Bank of Scotland, just rebranded as the National Westminster.

Lol, I thin if Scotland had a McPound with their own central bank it could work, but the markets would hit the currency and bonds very quickly with devaluation and mega interest rates given the poor financial position Scotland has. It's definitely possible, but I'm not sure independence voters are voting for 20 years of austerity. 🤷‍♂️

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

Looking at the Covid cases charts you can imagine my delight that Mr RP Senior remains in hospital in Oldham awaiting his "emergency" Hernia operation. Which is now "hmmm I'm not sure we should operate given your other conditions lets have my boss look at you tomorrow".

contrarian said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

Why are you bothering? no arguments of the realities will ever persuade them, even though its staring them in the face....If reading this site has taught me anything its taught me that.

Why else do you think that state run Scottish schools no longer teach economics? What's the point? The SNP have their own facts and seem happy with them.

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Malmesbury said:

England case data - absolute

...

The moles don't seem to be responding much to the whackings.

Maybe the moles were an artefact. Despite being a supposed hotspot, numbers of inpatients in Leicester is a third of what it was a month ago.

When you start doing door to door swabbing you find a lot of mild disease. Important for stamping it out, but not to lose sleep over.

We will need to see the next reporting peak, but the last one, 3-6th August doesn't indicate a continued upward growth. Single swallows, summers etc. Something to watch.

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

I am pretty sure that they floated their own currency a few years before they joined the Euro but they did have a tie to Sterling for something like 60 years.

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

Yeah, I think so. Must have been difficult to maintain after the UK dropped out of the ERM.

The peg vanished long before erm, my gf in 1990 was Irish and we always changed money before flying over but bars were only too happy to accept english money on a 1:1 basis I think at the time it was something like 90 pence to the punt

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

Would be a certain irony if it was the Royal Bank of Scotland, just rebranded as the National Westminster.

Lol, I thin if Scotland had a McPound with their own central bank it could work, but the markets would hit the currency and bonds very quickly with devaluation and mega interest rates given the poor financial position Scotland has. It's definitely possible, but I'm not sure independence voters are voting for 20 years of austerity. 🤷‍♂️

We will see smart arse when England is on its own how they do , you may smile on the other side of your smug pompous face

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Malmesbury said:

England case data - absolute

...

The moles don't seem to be responding much to the whackings.

Maybe the moles were an artefact. Despite being a supposed hotspot, numbers of inpatients in Leicester is a third of what it was a month ago.

When you start doing door to door swabbing you find a lot of mild disease. Important for stamping it out, but not to lose sleep over.

Maybe, but if that was the only explanation you'd expect biggish jump when they started intensive testing, followed by a tailing-off as the moles were whacked. That doesn't seem to be happening, although perhaps it's still too early to tell.

It would be good if they did some intensive testing in non-hotspot areas, as a control.

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

Two different things, Malc. Currency needs a central bank.

Do you mean abuilding like the bank of england , just like every country has. Our share of the bank of england loot will do very nicely and starting off debt free will put us in a very nice position.

If you take a share of the assets, you’ll have to take a share of the debt most likely... 🤷‍♂️

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

Two different things, Malc. Currency needs a central bank.

Do you mean abuilding like the bank of england , just like every country has. Our share of the bank of england loot will do very nicely and starting off debt free will put us in a very nice position.

If you take a share of the assets, you’ll have to take a share of the debt most likely... 🤷‍♂️

If they want a share of the assets we could give them Northern ireland

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

You want a large share of the UK’s IOUs?

That’s generous of you.

We will be debt free and the English unionist Nat West Bank will never be near being the central bank.

Pagan2 said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

Yeah, I think so. Must have been difficult to maintain after the UK dropped out of the ERM.

The peg vanished long before erm, my gf in 1990 was Irish and we always changed money before flying over but bars were only too happy to accept english money on a 1:1 basis I think at the time it was something like 90 pence to the punt

An interesting but incomplete article about the post-independence history of the Irish pound:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound

It traded 1:1 with Sterling for decades, but wiki doesn't mention who guaranteed it. There used to be a "Sterling Area" which included, I think, Australia and NZ. Was Ireland part of this? And history does not relate whether the "Irish Free State" was saddled with a share of our post-WW1 national debt.

malcolmg said:

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

Isn't that the European Central Bank?

It may well be now but they all have had their own as well, so we will have our own or we will also have the ECB , only a foolish moron would not understand that if 200 countries can manage it poor old Scotland can manage it.

You can certainly have a central bank the issue will be however what rate you can borrow at. The ECB wont be available I suspect for ten years or so as I think you have to be in the euro for that and it will take at least ten years for scotland to meet all the criteria even if allowed immediate entry to the eu which frankly I don't believe you will be but its one that only time will tell on.

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

OK

The Denmark Central bank has assets of ±£60 billion. And a long credit history. It was founded in 1818.

How much should the Scottish Central Bank have in assets, and where will it get it from?

For perspective, £60 billion is about one year's tax take in Scotland. Scotland spends £75 billion a year.

So it will have to find one year's tax take at least and £15 billion a year, just to stand still.

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

Two different things, Malc. Currency needs a central bank.

Do you mean abuilding like the bank of england , just like every country has. Our share of the bank of england loot will do very nicely and starting off debt free will put us in a very nice position.

If you take a share of the assets, you’ll have to take a share of the debt most likely... 🤷‍♂️

What assets?! The UK state has nothing but debt, we're one of the most indebted developed nations in the world, the state itself owns very little other than a few buildings and a miniscule holding of foreign bonds.

@MaxPB project fear just isn’t going to work this time.

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

Two different things, Malc. Currency needs a central bank.

Do you mean abuilding like the bank of england , just like every country has. Our share of the bank of england loot will do very nicely and starting off debt free will put us in a very nice position.

If you take a share of the assets, you’ll have to take a share of the debt most likely... 🤷‍♂️

What assets?! The UK state has nothing but debt, we're one of the most indebted developed nations in the world, the state itself owns very little other than a few buildings and a miniscule holding of foreign bonds.

We own 45% of OneWeb 🤷‍♂️

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/Adamstoon1/status/1293520317218983936

That is a good one, in fairness.

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

Which is fine, but you can't do that and run a 9% deficit indefinitely at the same time. It means an end to free prescriptions, introduction of student fees etc... or significantly higher taxes on income, production and wealth. Like it or not an independent Scotland and the McPound doesn't have the same capacity as sterling, it's not a reserve currency and funds don't already hold £1.2tn in paper they are unwilling to trash. Take a look at all the countries you mention, none of them run a fiscal deficit anything like Scotland would have.

Again, I've told you this plenty of times. I'd still go for it, even knowing that, but if you do there's no running to papa England and asking for a bailout. You will be on your own.

Always the imaginary benevolent England paying all our bills, utter rubbish, as I said you can go back 50 years and we have a large surplus even allowing for funding English ( London ) infrastructure).
WE will do just fine when we cast off the yoke and are able to produce real figures and not the rigged ones from London.

Pagan2 said:

malcolmg said:

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

Isn't that the European Central Bank?

It may well be now but they all have had their own as well, so we will have our own or we will also have the ECB , only a foolish moron would not understand that if 200 countries can manage it poor old Scotland can manage it.

You can certainly have a central bank the issue will be however what rate you can borrow at. The ECB wont be available I suspect for ten years or so as I think you have to be in the euro for that and it will take at least ten years for scotland to meet all the criteria even if allowed immediate entry to the eu which frankly I don't believe you will be but its one that only time will tell on.

Fantasies are getting bigger and bigger.

malcolmg said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Pagan2 said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

Yeah, I think so. Must have been difficult to maintain after the UK dropped out of the ERM.

The peg vanished long before erm, my gf in 1990 was Irish and we always changed money before flying over but bars were only too happy to accept english money on a 1:1 basis I think at the time it was something like 90 pence to the punt

An interesting but incomplete article about the post-independence history of the Irish pound:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound

It traded 1:1 with Sterling for decades, but wiki doesn't mention who guaranteed it. There used to be a "Sterling Area" which included, I think, Australia and NZ. Was Ireland part of this? And history does not relate whether the "Irish Free State" was saddled with a share of our post-WW1 national debt.

Not one of the lucky countries that threw off the yoke got a penny of debt, it was UK debt and nothing to do with them , aka Scotland.

Ireland took on a share of debt. It was eventually released from that obligation in exchange for not disputing the border with Northern Ireland.

What would Scotland offer?

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Pagan2 said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

Yeah, I think so. Must have been difficult to maintain after the UK dropped out of the ERM.

The peg vanished long before erm, my gf in 1990 was Irish and we always changed money before flying over but bars were only too happy to accept english money on a 1:1 basis I think at the time it was something like 90 pence to the punt

An interesting but incomplete article about the post-independence history of the Irish pound:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound

It traded 1:1 with Sterling for decades, but wiki doesn't mention who guaranteed it. There used to be a "Sterling Area" which included, I think, Australia and NZ. Was Ireland part of this? And history does not relate whether the "Irish Free State" was saddled with a share of our post-WW1 national debt.

Not one of the lucky countries that threw off the yoke got a penny of debt, it was UK debt and nothing to do with them , aka Scotland.

Ireland took on a share of debt. It was eventually released from that obligation in exchange for not disputing the border with Northern Ireland.

What would Scotland offer?

Would you take Glasgow?

Gallowgate said:

@MaxPB project fear just isn’t going to work this time.

I don't think it wil either, but it will become project reality. Ultimately the argument for the Union needs to be won on an emotional level, not enough Scottish people feel emotionally attached to the Union.

Even with no deal, the government has the option of firing up the printing presses and staving off economic Armageddon for a couple of years until a deal can be made. Scotland runs a gigantic structural deficit, it spends too much and taxes too little. That will cause serious austerity and tax rises after independence, it is inevitable.

malcolmg said:

Pagan2 said:

malcolmg said:

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

Isn't that the European Central Bank?

It may well be now but they all have had their own as well, so we will have our own or we will also have the ECB , only a foolish moron would not understand that if 200 countries can manage it poor old Scotland can manage it.

You can certainly have a central bank the issue will be however what rate you can borrow at. The ECB wont be available I suspect for ten years or so as I think you have to be in the euro for that and it will take at least ten years for scotland to meet all the criteria even if allowed immediate entry to the eu which frankly I don't believe you will be but its one that only time will tell on.

Fantasies are getting bigger and bigger.

Well we will see won't we Malcolm as I said I support scottish independence but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime because when it comes to it your countrymen won't vote for it.

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

MaxPB said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

Scottish pounds you halfwit , as per our existing currency.

Backed by which central bank?

It's own central bank just like most countries in the world, which central bank supports Belgium , Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden , Norway , Iceland , and on and on . What in tiny English minds makes them think Scotland is the only country unable to have its own currency and run its own treasury

Which is fine, but you can't do that and run a 9% deficit indefinitely at the same time. It means an end to free prescriptions, introduction of student fees etc... or significantly higher taxes on income, production and wealth. Like it or not an independent Scotland and the McPound doesn't have the same capacity as sterling, it's not a reserve currency and funds don't already hold £1.2tn in paper they are unwilling to trash. Take a look at all the countries you mention, none of them run a fiscal deficit anything like Scotland would have.

Again, I've told you this plenty of times. I'd still go for it, even knowing that, but if you do there's no running to papa England and asking for a bailout. You will be on your own.

We do not have a 9% deficit, we have made up numbers by Westminster. It would run a balanced budget and borrow sensibly , currently it borrows peanuts as that is all England allows. #
We will do just fine.

You do. Whether or not you believe the numbers is irrelevant.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1293569531730890752?s=20

So it looks like it was three crew/six passengers.

Very, very fortunate there were so few people on it. Imagine if it had been full. It would have been the worst disaster since Ladbroke Grove, if not Harrow. But that will hardly be any comfort to the families of those killed.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Gallowgate said:

@MaxPB project fear just isn’t going to work this time.

Which is quite remarkable, given that Scots will have before them, in full sight, a fully worked example of what happens if you disrupt trading patterns, create borders where there were none before, ignore the practical realities, and alienate your much bigger neighbour, all in the name of a chimera.

It will be just one more in the list of catastrophic misjudgements made by voters in the UK since 2016.

It was damn close in 2014 too.

Roots go far deeper.

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

You want a large share of the UK’s IOUs?

That’s generous of you.

We will be debt free and the English unionist Nat West Bank will never be near being the central bank.

An independent Scotland would get no share of assets unless you also took on a share of debts.

I don't know why that is even controversial. That or some trade off for it would be part of the cost of independence. Untangling such a longstanding union will be complicated and involve difficulty - it was bad enough some Brexiteers pretending it would all be easy without people pretending the same with Sindy, which is much more complicated. There's no need to blow smoke up people's arses about such things, I'd be astonished if it would persuade someone who has made the switch to be an Indy supporter to change their mind.

The reason Salmond failed was because ultimately, he wasn’t being truthful about these sort of trade offs and everyone who was not already a rabid nationalist could see that. It meant that either he didn’t know what he was talking about, or he was lying, and in neither case did he command conviction.

The question at the next referendum is whether people will care, or whether they will conclude, like the Irish, that although they would be worse off financially independence would still be preferable.

Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) announced today she will retire at next year's Scottish elections.

18 MSPs have announced their intentions to retire so far. The current list of confirmed retirements ahead of 2021 elections is

Bruce Crawford (born in 1955): MSP since 1999
Mike Russell (1953), MSP from 1999 to 2003 and then since 2007
Stewart Stevenson (1946), MSP since 2001
Aileen Campbell (1980), MSP since 2007
Richard Lyle (1950), MSP since 2011
Gail Ross (1977), MSP since 2016
Angus MacDonald (1963): MSP since 2011
Gil Paternson (1942): MSP from 1999 to 2003 and then since 2007
Linda Fabiani (1956): MSP since 1999

ex SNP
Mark McDonald (1980): MSP since 2011

Conservatives
Ruth Davidson (1978): MSP since 2011
Margaret Mitchell (1952): MSP since 2003
Adam Tomkins (1969): MSP since 2016

Labour
Elaine Smith (1963): MSP since 1999
Mary Fee (1954): MSP since 2011
Neil Findlay (1969): MSP since 2011
Iain Gray (1957): MSP from 1999 to 2003 and then since 2007
David Stewart (1956): MSP since 2007. Previously MSP from 1997 to 2005

Greens
John Finnie (1956), MSP since 2011 (first election as SNP)

___

MSPs can retire at 65 with the full pension they are entitled to based on number of years served. They can claim a reduced pension starting from 55, with a reduction of 4% of each year before 65.

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

What they call it is pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is who stands behind it.

The Scottish treasury, yet another halfwit who does not understand how countries run and thinks only Scotland in the whole world cannot have a treasury. How thick can you be , our share of all the loot from Bank of UK will be deposited in our new Treasury and we will run just like the 200 or so other countries in the world run, FFS think before you write such crap.

You want a large share of the UK’s IOUs?

That’s generous of you.

We will be debt free and the English unionist Nat West Bank will never be near being the central bank.

An independent Scotland would get no share of assets unless you also took on a share of debts.

I don't know why that is even controversial. That or some trade off for it would be part of the cost of independence. Untangling such a longstanding union will be complicated and involve difficulty - it was bad enough some Brexiteers pretending it would all be easy without people pretending the same with Sindy, which is much more complicated. There's no need to blow smoke up people's arses about such things, I'd be astonished if it would persuade someone who has made the switch to be an Indy supporter to change their mind.

The reason Salmond failed was because ultimately, he wasn’t being truthful about these sort of trade offs and everyone who was not already a rabid nationalist could see that. It meant that either he didn’t know what he was talking about, or he was lying, and in neither case did he command conviction.

The question at the next referendum is whether people will care, or whether they will conclude, like the Irish, that although they would be worse off financially independence would still be preferable.

Scotland was full of posters the last time boasting how much public spending could increase once we had our own budget, how many more teachers, doctors and nurses we could have. It was unmitigated crap and thankfully the majority did not believe it although depressingly many did.

I really don't believe that the SNP will be able to run such arguments again. If we went independent we would be looking at cuts in public spending of around 20% to balance the budget. How many hospitals, schools and roads is independence worth?

For those to whom this is their Valhalla none of this matters but I think that they are outnumbered by those conned into believing the lies in the Scottish Government's White paper.

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

The sooner Scotland gets to control its own destiny and pay its own bills the better.

Yes, but in what currency?

A Scottish Pound makes the most sense to me. Like the Irish had pre-Euro.

Didn't Ireland have an ERM type 1:1 peg with the British Pound?

They started floating it in 1980 didn't they?

AndreaParma_82 said:

Conservatives
Ruth Davidson (1978): MSP since 2011

Vote for me, I will be fucking off after the election.