I think my favourite flu fact concerns H1N1. It returned in 1977 and genetic analysis indicated it had not evolved for ca. 20 years. i.e. there had been a release of a lab strain back into the general population.
The UK is going to have an enormous debt at the end of Covid, much of it accrued in supporting the English AND SCottish economies, paying for the furloughs of English AND Scottish workers (and Welsh and Norn as well, of course)
The idea that Scotland would be allowed to walk away from this shared debt, undertaken to help Scotland and England alike, is not just morally appalling, it is actively impossible. It would guarantee a vastly hostile reaction from the English (and their government). England would make Scotland pay, one way or another. It would be brutal. England is ten times the size of Scotland.
The English can be an apathetic and foolish people, but they won't be taken for idiots forever. Not when it comes to hard money.
It's not without international consequences either, if a nation sees fit to walk away from one set of obligations then it sets a pretty awful precedent. They will be considered a nation in default at that point which means borrowing from speculators in USD, GBP and other foreign currencies because no one will be willing to buy paper sold under Scottish law in Edinburgh.
There are lots of arguments to be made in favour of SIndy, but I'm not sure walking away from the debt is one of them.
But the existing debt was defined as entirely rUK debt by the UK Treasury in 2013 (or perhaps 2014 - I'd need to check). So there would be no walking away from that.
If that's what helps you sleep at night then, sure.
I was sepaking of the formal debt - gilts, whatever - issued to the money markets, which is what was being discussed.
I would expect the Treasury to establish some sort of separate debt instrument with the new Scotland, as noted in an earlier posting.
Yes, and as I said Scotland walking away from those commitments would be an absolute disaster and not the way to start a new independent nation. Tbf, I've only ever seen Malc talk about walking away from the debt, it's not even official policy just something he's made up to try and rile everyone up and deflect from the fact that independence means spending cuts and tax rises.
The question is what happens if the rUK-to-be Government shows the skill and urgency in negotiation that it has shown over Brexit for the last 3-4 years. But that is perhaps a subquestion too far to worry about now in the various option trees open at the moment.
Well that's a different question entirely, though since the Boris team took over it is definitely going a lot better. There's definitely less of the "we don't know what you want from us" stuff from the EU. I get the feeling we'd see a lot of that from Scotland for a couple of years and possibly even an election that delivers a unionist majority in the Scottish parliament before negotiations are concluded. I honestly have no idea what happens in that scenario.
We could have a campaign for a second, sorry, third referendum. Whether rUK would be up for that I am not sure.
If the scots vote leave then later want back in I would suggest the rest of us should get a referendum to see if we want them back
Which is not what has happened. Do you prefer being able to run down the government because of the England figures being worse than the other uk nations? At least now the numbers can be fairly compared.
This isn't or shouldn't be a macabre popularity or virility contest. No one has "won", we have all lost and it doesn't matter whether you think the death toll is 40,000 or 60,000, really, it doesn't.
Every death is a tragedy - as a wise man once said "we're all someone's daughter, we're all someone's son".
MY brother tested positive for the fourth time yesterday - the medics treating him now think a low white blood cell count is stopping him fighting off the virus. He is having his flat deep cleaned and "fogged" but at least they are taking an interest now. He can't work or visit his children at present.
There are many thousands of people who are and will continue to suffer long-term medical problems from this virus and if all we have are lines on charts and graphs, excel spreadsheets and a "my country's got fewer dead than yours" mentality, I'm saddened.
The dead deserve better, the suffering deserve better.
Gosh that is awful to hear @stodge - haven't heard much about people not being able to clear themselves of the virus, but he can't be alone. Shocking virus.
Starmer needs gains in England and Wales not Scotland as the SNP will make him PM anyway.
With Scotland he could even become PM with just 50 to 60 gains from the Tories, without Scotland he will likely need well over 100 gains from the Tories and to effectively match Blair's 1997 swing, a neat impossible task
A longer lockdown drove the UK to one of the deepest recessions in Europe....
claims that alt right rag the.....er.......FT.
Could it be related to the fact our economy is more strongly biased towards Services than other European economies? Lockdown meant shutdown for the Services sector while some manufacturing continued and construction returned fairly quickly.
I see the weaponising of percentages and lines on graphs has continued with this - first quarter GDP down over 20% so all the growth of the past 17 years has been lost - really? Are we now saying the economy as at 30/6/20 was the same size as it was in 2003 or is that the per capita number?
Again, I don't know - someone claims we will see another 8% rebound in July and another 8% rebound in August - maybe, it's hard to know. That would take us back to 92% of where we were as distinct from 90% of where we would have been without the virus.
As another wise man once said "lies, damn lies and statistics".
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Gosh that is awful to hear @stodge - haven't heard much about people not being able to clear themselves of the virus, but he can't be alone. Shocking virus.
Thank you for the kind word, my friend.
Without going into too much detail, my brother was having treatment for cancer which involved chemotherapy and I suspect that weakened his immune system.
He has never required hospital treatment or been on a ventilator. Apart from occasional spikes in temperature, which are treated with paracetamol, he has never shown any other symptoms but he has been effectively isolated for approaching five months with social contact heavily restricted.
As I say, there are people who have contracted the virus but whose recovery has been far from complete and the long term medical impacts considerable.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Populism is the word that people with unpopular views use to try and discredit majoritarianism.
Its a popular government. This country is economically to the left of e.g. Cameron, but culturally to the right. So this government has positioned itself smack bang in the middle of the country.
Blair understood this. Wilson understood this. Few other Labour leaders have.
The UK is going to have an enormous debt at the end of Covid, much of it accrued in supporting the English AND SCottish economies, paying for the furloughs of English AND Scottish workers (and Welsh and Norn as well, of course)
The idea that Scotland would be allowed to walk away from this shared debt, undertaken to help Scotland and England alike, is not just morally appalling, it is actively impossible. It would guarantee a vastly hostile reaction from the English (and their government). England would make Scotland pay, one way or another. It would be brutal. England is ten times the size of Scotland.
The English can be an apathetic and foolish people, but they won't be taken for idiots forever. Not when it comes to hard money.
Ironically the U.K. government can ignore this debt (unless they monetise it).
If it’s transferred to iScot it becomes a real cash liability...
Correction: I (obviously) meant sterilise not monetise in the above post
Gosh that is awful to hear @stodge - haven't heard much about people not being able to clear themselves of the virus, but he can't be alone. Shocking virus.
Thank you for the kind word, my friend.
Without going into too much detail, my brother was having treatment for cancer which involved chemotherapy and I suspect that weakened his immune system.
He has never required hospital treatment or been on a ventilator. Apart from occasional spikes in temperature, which are treated with paracetamol, he has never shown any other symptoms but he has been effectively isolated for approaching five months with social contact heavily restricted.
As I say, there are people who have contracted the virus but whose recovery has been far from complete and the long term medical impacts considerable.
So sorry to hear.
This is yet another reason why the lockdown skeptics need to do one. We don't yet know the full impact of contracting the virus.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Cameron was trying to balance the books, this government isn't.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Cameron was trying to balance the books, this government isn't.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
For some reason I have to keep telling you this, but: you do realise that Brexit has already happened? There is no “hard Brexit” platform to run on in 2024, because Brexit would have happened many years ago, and we’ll already be 3 years into our glorious new trading relationship.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Just to be clear - your precedent is that a man who not only was guilty of the most blatant act of cronyism since Incitatus was promoted to consul but has spent most of his time since leaving office trying to avoid awkward questions about why his political opponents’ phones were tapped, failed to do the honourable thing?
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration dog whistling for one.
But regardless the “right” and “left” scale is a waste of time and completely pointless.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
For some reason I have to keep telling you this, but: you do realise that Brexit has already happened? There is no “hard Brexit” platform to run on in 2024, because Brexit would have happened many years ago, and we’ll already be 3 years into our glorious new trading relationship.
Which out of the single market and customs union would mean border posts at Berwick and tariffs on Scottish exports to England
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration dog whistling for one.
But regardless the “right” and “left” scale is a waste of time and completely pointless.
Too right, I find myself agreeing with your posts these days.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
For some reason I have to keep telling you this, but: you do realise that Brexit has already happened? There is no “hard Brexit” platform to run on in 2024, because Brexit would have happened many years ago, and we’ll already be 3 years into our glorious new trading relationship.
Which out of the single market and customs union would mean border posts at Berwick and tariffs on Scottish exports to England
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
There's a massive chasm between open borders (which I don't support) and taking no refugees at all, shutting the borders down.
I think our existing immigration system was perfectly fine and nobody has been able to persuade me otherwise.
You didn't apologise for calling me a cum stained oik, even though I apologised to you previously.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
Nobody is suggesting we should have a free for all immigration policy so your entire post is just meaningless drivel.
As for a left wing country I admire, Norway would be a good start. They have FOM with the EU and I hope we will follow their example in our relationship with the EU.
A social democracy which I have great admiration for.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
There's a massive chasm between open borders (which I don't support) and taking no refugees at all, shutting the borders down.
I think our existing immigration system was perfectly fine and nobody has been able to persuade me otherwise.
You didn't apologise for calling me a cum stained oik, even though I apologised to you previously.
And as I said last night in all your talk about the fair share we should take and whats fair to migrants you never once talk about fairness to those that live here and pay for it. The ones pushed further down council lists because people coming over need it more. The ones who's childrens end up in schools where few of the children speak english so lessons get slowed to a snails crawl. Those that have to pay ever inflating rent due to the fairly static rental stock having to service lots more people.
Of course you don't those people don't count they are probably racist bigots anyway. Besides it won't affect your cushy life because they will only be in the poorer areas not your cushly little suburban paradise.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
There's a massive chasm between open borders (which I don't support) and taking no refugees at all, shutting the borders down.
I think our existing immigration system was perfectly fine and nobody has been able to persuade me otherwise.
You didn't apologise for calling me a cum stained oik, even though I apologised to you previously.
And as I said last night in all your talk about the fair share we should take and whats fair to migrants you never once talk about fairness to those that live here and pay for it. The ones pushed further down council lists because people coming over need it more. The ones who's childrens end up in schools where few of the children speak english so lessons get slowed to a snails crawl. Those that have to pay ever inflating rent due to the fairly static rental stock having to service lots more people.
Of course you don't those people don't count they are probably racist bigots anyway. Besides it won't affect your cushy life because they will only be in the poorer areas not your cushly little suburban paradise.
Well that escalated quickly.
I work hard for a living, your condescending post not withstanding. I pay my taxes and have had a job since I left university, I have just as might right as you do Sir to argue for what I believe in.
Your whole post is just pushing your ridiculous agenda onto me - but since you've not seen fit to apologise, I will have to leave it there. Wish you all the very best.
As for a left wing country I admire, Norway would be a good start. They have FOM with the EU and I hope we will follow their example in our relationship with the EU.
A social democracy which I have great admiration for.
FOM isnt the open doors policy you want though you know the left wing one all the corbynites advocate and I have seen no indication you have recanted on that.
I don't want an open doors immigration policy, I have never advocated one and I don't think I ever will. Putting words into my mouth really is very childish.
Anyway, I've promised I wouldn't reply any further but just wanted to clear that up for all here. All the very best to you and your family @Pagan2
I’m willing to bet that @Pagan2 lives somewhere which is overwhelming white and knows absolutely nothing about living in a multi-cultural area, other than what they read on Twitter from borderline racists.
Second Test at Southampton starts tomorrow. PBers have long been accustomed to profiting from laying the draw in five day games except when the weather is doubtful. If you believe the BBC forecast you would have to think that there could be a lot of interruptions. Otoh if you believe Netweather there could be a full five days, in which case the chances of a draw are much more remote than the odds of 2.9 (Betfair) would suggest.
Dodgy business betting on weather forecasts. Weathermen are rather apt to change their minds (and seldom admit a mistake when wrong!), but if Netweather are anywhere near right this looks a good betting opportunity.
I'd suggests laying to begin with but be quick to hedge as the contest evolves.
I reckon Pakistan to win is the best bet, given how close they were last week. England without Stokes; Pakistan's bowling attack is strong enough to bowl England out twice, with maybe a worn pitch taking spin. And following rain ground should drain and dry pretty quickly. And Babar will score a century....
Yes, I thought about that myself but others have obviously noted it too and the price is a bit skimpy. The toss will be vital, so if England win it the visitors will suddenly be bad value. Backing the draw is very safe, unless Netweather have screwed up....
Betting is fraught with danger if it involves Pakistan . Not for me , you can never tell when they are ON.
The illustrious Tissue Price (now Aaron Bell MP) once of this parish, used to reckon you should always lay Pakistan because you got two chances - one that they were betting against themselves and the other that they weren't good enough anyway.
I don't think that's at all fair to the current squad who seem keen enough, and on their day they are a match for anyone, but they are consistently inconsistent.
William Hill have paid out my (aftertimed!) bet on Kamala but she is still available at 1.01 at Betfair because there is many a slip betwixt now and the DNC next week. However, that is a bad value proxy bet for Biden to get the top slot which is 1.02 on Betfair (or 1/50 with Paddy Power; other bookmakers not checked!).
Now, 1.02 for Joe Biden to keep breathing for another week seems like reasonable value.
But if Biden does withdraw, what happens then? I doubt Kamala would inherit; Bernie Sanders was runner-up on delegates iirc. Late-night sessions in smoke-filled rooms followed by cries of stitch-up and betrayal, I expect.
Surely with regional inequalities being what they are, starting HS2 in the North now must be something the Government should consider. We really need to stop encouraging people to move to London (albeit COVID is likely doing that now anyway).
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
I hope they do release the body footage, it would be good for all involved.
My inkling is she exaggerated/lied, thank Goodness she is not on the front bench anymore. I still think Keir gave the wrong response and should have said nothing
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
Ah you mean having one instead of just letting all and sundry come here.
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
There's a massive chasm between open borders (which I don't support) and taking no refugees at all, shutting the borders down.
I think our existing immigration system was perfectly fine and nobody has been able to persuade me otherwise.
You didn't apologise for calling me a cum stained oik, even though I apologised to you previously.
And as I said last night in all your talk about the fair share we should take and whats fair to migrants you never once talk about fairness to those that live here and pay for it. The ones pushed further down council lists because people coming over need it more. The ones who's childrens end up in schools where few of the children speak english so lessons get slowed to a snails crawl. Those that have to pay ever inflating rent due to the fairly static rental stock having to service lots more people.
Of course you don't those people don't count they are probably racist bigots anyway. Besides it won't affect your cushy life because they will only be in the poorer areas not your cushly little suburban paradise.
Well that escalated quickly.
I work hard for a living, your condescending post not withstanding. I pay my taxes and have had a job since I left university, I have just as might right as you do Sir to argue for what I believe in.
Your whole post is just pushing your ridiculous agenda onto me - but since you've not seen fit to apologise, I will have to leave it there. Wish you all the very best.
I didn't say you didn't have the right to argue for what you want. I merely observed all your talk of fairness seems to be reserved for those abroad and never a thought for what it does to the poor here
As to Norway that country you admire for its humane immigration policy......well doesnt seem like they accept that many refugees as I dont count fom migrants as refugees
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
You should go to Wales and remind them of that fact.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
I’m willing to bet that @Pagan2 lives somewhere which is overwhelming white and knows absolutely nothing about living in a multi-cultural area, other than what they read on Twitter from borderline racists.
Is it fun playing the “man of the people”?
It is well known I live in slough so tough wrong again just like when you called me a liar over turkey threatening the eu with migrants. Then when I posted links you tried changing it to "oh you were lying about people on this board saying it was wrong of turkey"
I mostly ignore your drivel but I just thought would prove you wrong again
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
Oh not this again, the EU FOM system was not racist.
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
Oh not this again, the EU FOM system was not racist.
What other term do you use for a system that systematically favours people coming from overwhelmingly white countries, over countries dominated by ethnic minorities?
If FoM was introduced now, along with tight restrictions on non-EU immigration, assorted lefties would be screaming that it was racist.
I’m willing to bet that @Pagan2 lives somewhere which is overwhelming white and knows absolutely nothing about living in a multi-cultural area, other than what they read on Twitter from borderline racists.
Is it fun playing the “man of the people”?
It is well known I live in slough so tough wrong again just like when you called me a liar over turkey threatening the eu with migrants. Then when I posted links you tried changing it to "oh you were lying about people on this board saying it was wrong of turkey"
I mostly ignore your drivel but I just thought would prove you wrong again
It’s not my fault you’re unable to read. I didn’t say that Turkey didn’t threaten the EU with migrants, I said you were a liar by pretending to speak for “lefties” at the time.
Well I grew up in the West Midlands so I know all about growing up in a multi-cultural area so don’t pretend you have a monopoly on the effects on the “poor” that immigration has, because you do not.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
You should go to Wales and remind them of that fact.
There is Plaid but it never gets very far, unlike Scotland in Wales Labour still dominate though the Tories do better in Wales than Scotland mainly in English ex pat areas near the English border and on the North and South Welsh coast
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
It was a BMW. It will be as simple as that; not that the police can admit to that.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
You should go to Wales and remind them of that fact.
There is Plaid but it never gets very far, unlike Scotland in Wales Labour still dominate though the Tories do better in Wales than Scotland mainly in English ex pat areas near the English border and on the North and South Welsh coast
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
Oh not this again, the EU FOM system was not racist.
What other term do you use for a system that systematically favours people coming from overwhelmingly white countries, over countries dominated by ethnic minorities?
If FoM was introduced now, along with tight restrictions on non-EU immigration, assorted lefties would be screaming that it was racist.
I wouldn't be proclaiming it was racist.
It didn't have to favour people from one country or the other, the UK Government chose to discriminate based on that fact.
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
It was a BMW. It will be as simple as that; not that the police can admit to that.
With blacked-out windows, as the police have already said.
Twitter was kicking off today with the YouGov poll about Sadiq Khan. Lots of people that don't live in London insist it's a warzone where you're going to get stabbed if you leave your home.
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
You should go to Wales and remind them of that fact.
There is Plaid but it never gets very far, unlike Scotland in Wales Labour still dominate though the Tories do better in Wales than Scotland mainly in English ex pat areas near the English border and on the North and South Welsh coast
What relevance does that have?
Wales voted Leave just like England and unlike Scotland and Northern Ireland so is unlikely to Leave the UK (or a new country of England and Wales if Scotland voted for independence and Northern Ireland to join the Republic of Ireland) even with hard Brexit but Labour are the majority party in Wales, the Tories are only the majority party in England.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
Oh not this again, the EU FOM system was not racist.
What other term do you use for a system that systematically favours people coming from overwhelmingly white countries, over countries dominated by ethnic minorities?
If FoM was introduced now, along with tight restrictions on non-EU immigration, assorted lefties would be screaming that it was racist.
I wouldn't be proclaiming it was racist.
It didn't have to favour people from one country or the other, the UK Government chose to discriminate based on that fact.
The UK government did indeed make those choices in the past, and now the system is changing.
The old system was massively more favorable to those from EU countries and discriminated against those from non-EU countries.
The new system is merit-based, it doesn't care where you're from, and is therefore by definition less racist.
Haven't seen Philip or Big G today, hope they're alright. Perhaps they're working late.
I am fine but to be honest so much debate on here seems to be going over the same ground and same entrenched positions
Boris is hopeless, as are most of the cabinet, but sadly labour are led by Starmer who is just dull and his shadow team are anonymous and equally inept
I would hope conservative mps start to wake up and look to replacing Boris early next year. He was good for Brexit but out of his comfort zone on covid
I fear for not only the UK, but Europe and the rest of the world as covid has not gone away and seems to be coming back with a vengence
The economic costs are dreadful with millions of job loses in industries gone for years and I have no idea how any government, including conservative or labour steers us to the other side
If I could I would form a GNU as I do not see anything else as viable
And on Brexit I would join the single market
I do not want to get into protracted arguments to be honest and will not be posting quite as much for now
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Of course Boris would have to resign. Just as Cameron admitted (after the event) that he would have resigned over a YES vote. Just as Cameron actually did resign after Brexit.
You cannot preside over a catastrophically lost and epochally important referendum and still continue in power. Boris would be instant toast. Especially when everyone could say: It was in your power to refuse a referendum, why did you grant it?
Relying on the SNP is dangerous, we know Johnson will turn up the coalition of chaos rhetoric.
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
This is totally right.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
Why? Juncker did not resign when the UK voted to Leave the EU.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
Because a Tory PM would be leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.
If Scotland voted for independence the Union would be over and the Tories would become the English National Party, the English equivalent of the SNP
They're quite popular in Wales?
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
Wales is technically part of the Kingdom of England
You should go to Wales and remind them of that fact.
There is Plaid but it never gets very far, unlike Scotland in Wales Labour still dominate though the Tories do better in Wales than Scotland mainly in English ex pat areas near the English border and on the North and South Welsh coast
What relevance does that have?
Wales voted Leave just like England and unlike Scotland and Northern Ireland so is unlikely to Leave the UK (or a new country of England and Wales if Scotland voted for independence and Northern Ireland to join the Republic of Ireland) even with hard Brexit but Labour are the majority party in Wales, the Tories are only the majority party in England.
That is the point
I was telling you that you should go to Wales and remind them that they are part of the Kingdom of England and see what they say.
They’d tell you to F off most likely, regardless of who they vote for.
If Biden does win, both the UK and the USA will likely be heading back to sensible centrist-style Government again, assuming Keir takes over in 2024
I assume you're talking Keir taking over as head of the V&A or something like that.
This govt is centrist.
Labour policy at present is STILL further to the left (most especially culturally) than at any point in my memory, the Corbyn interregnum aside.
This Government is not centrist.
It really is - it has secured more seats than any Govt since Blair's, and any Tory Govt since Thatcher.
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
This Government is not centrist. It is more right wing than Cameron was accept on economics where they have done a bit of leftie populist pitching.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Its more leftist than centrist just not left enough for you.
Definitely not left enough for me of course but even Labour likely isn't left wing enough for me in principle. But I get that most people aren't as left wing as me. Unlike some more of the nutty left I accept that and I'd rather have an electable Labour Party than forever opposition.
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
It certainly isn't right wing in anyway shape or form. Name a single right wing thing it has done?
Immigration policy is where I'd start.
The new post-EU immigration system is considerably more merit-based, and considerably less racist than the previous system.
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
Oh not this again, the EU FOM system was not racist.
What other term do you use for a system that systematically favours people coming from overwhelmingly white countries, over countries dominated by ethnic minorities?
If FoM was introduced now, along with tight restrictions on non-EU immigration, assorted lefties would be screaming that it was racist.
I wouldn't be proclaiming it was racist.
It didn't have to favour people from one country or the other, the UK Government chose to discriminate based on that fact.
The UK government did indeed make those choices in the past, and now the system is changing.
The old system was massively more favorable to those from EU countries and discriminated against those from non-EU countries.
The new system is merit-based, it doesn't care where you're from, and is therefore by definition less racist.
It's not "less racist", the old system wasn't racist to start with. That is the issue I contend with.
Unfortunately the new system excludes us from joining EEA which is a complete misstep for our economy especially with what is going on.
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
It was a BMW. It will be as simple as that; not that the police can admit to that.
With blacked-out windows, as the police have already said.
If the tinted/blacked out windows broke the law then the rozzers would have issued a prohibition notice? Did they? If not why not? Oh because they were legal.
I only ask as someone who drives a vehicle with tinted windows.
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
It was a BMW. It will be as simple as that; not that the police can admit to that.
With blacked-out windows, as the police have already said.
Can somebody explain how Johnson will be running on a hard Brexit ticket in 2024. Aren't we ending the transition period this December, is HYUFD implying we're going to delay ending it? Can't see that going down too well with Tory voters
Where’s the full video Ms Butler? twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Since Dawn Butler's "full video" could not possibly show the police looking up the wrong registration number, what's your point?
My point is she Tweeted that she’d “recorded everything” then only released 1 minute of an 8 minute recording. The Police should release their body cam footage so we get the whole picture.
The police case is they stopped the car after the registration lookup error. If they claimed the car was careering all over the road, or had a funky smell from the window, there might be value but they are not claiming that.
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
It was a BMW. It will be as simple as that; not that the police can admit to that.
With blacked-out windows, as the police have already said.
Which meant they couldn’t racially profile the occupants as they couldn’t see them.
Can somebody explain how Johnson will be running on a hard Brexit ticket in 2024. Aren't we ending the transition period this December, is HYUFD implying we're going to delay ending it? Can't see that going down too well with Tory voters
Johnson has to go before the next election. Not up to the job I'm afraid.
Comments
With Scotland he could even become PM with just 50 to 60 gains from the Tories, without Scotland he will likely need well over 100 gains from the Tories and to effectively match Blair's 1997 swing, a neat impossible task
Keir needs to be as anti-SNP as possible.
I see the weaponising of percentages and lines on graphs has continued with this - first quarter GDP down over 20% so all the growth of the past 17 years has been lost - really? Are we now saying the economy as at 30/6/20 was the same size as it was in 2003 or is that the per capita number?
Again, I don't know - someone claims we will see another 8% rebound in July and another 8% rebound in August - maybe, it's hard to know. That would take us back to 92% of where we were as distinct from 90% of where we would have been without the virus.
As another wise man once said "lies, damn lies and statistics".
The left like to think they're centrist; but they're not. Nor was the Cameron govt.
The Govt line on economics (steady taxation, increase public spending and grow economy) and cultural issues (tough on violent crime, enforced rules on immigration, no self identification of gender and not assuaging Marxist organisations by eg taking the knee) chimes with the public mood.
I mean if the Jeremy Kyle Show existed in 30 AD then Mary would have been exposed as the liar we all know she is.
I'd say it was more populist right, than centrist.
Without going into too much detail, my brother was having treatment for cancer which involved chemotherapy and I suspect that weakened his immune system.
He has never required hospital treatment or been on a ventilator. Apart from occasional spikes in temperature, which are treated with paracetamol, he has never shown any other symptoms but he has been effectively isolated for approaching five months with social contact heavily restricted.
As I say, there are people who have contracted the virus but whose recovery has been far from complete and the long term medical impacts considerable.
There is now no path to a Labour government that includes the SNP. And break up of the Union would be the most disastrous moment in British Socialism's history.
Any Tory PM presiding over the Union's demise would have to resign. BUT his successor would almost certainly be returned with a greater proportion of seats in the subsequent Parliament.
https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1293608926399864832?s=20
Its a popular government. This country is economically to the left of e.g. Cameron, but culturally to the right. So this government has positioned itself smack bang in the middle of the country.
Blair understood this. Wilson understood this. Few other Labour leaders have.
This is yet another reason why the lockdown skeptics need to do one. We don't yet know the full impact of contracting the virus.
Boris would not resign either but would win the 2024 election comfortably on a platform of hard Brexit and a tough stance on negotiations with the SNP if he granted indyref2 and Scots voted Yes.
Without SNP support or large numbers of Scottish Labour seats Starmer needs a 1997 style swing to become PM
https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/status/1293523662663024641
Still, this does not change my view that this Government is not centrist and it's definitely not leftist.
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1293578873645539329?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1293587160193544194?s=20
But regardless the “right” and “left” scale is a waste of time and completely pointless.
And this was just after he had travelled back from a country that was subsequently put on the quarantine list.
Um.... ok....
Give me a left wing country that has a free for all immigration policy please which is what you mean by a left wing immigration policy. Otherwise sorry no banana. Having a points based immigration policy like most countries of both left and right does not make it right wing.
Perhaps not in a few years, depends how Brexit goes I suppose
I think our existing immigration system was perfectly fine and nobody has been able to persuade me otherwise.
You didn't apologise for calling me a cum stained oik, even though I apologised to you previously.
A social democracy which I have great admiration for.
Of course you don't those people don't count they are probably racist bigots anyway. Besides it won't affect your cushy life because they will only be in the poorer areas not your cushly little suburban paradise.
Amazing how many Americans don't want to live in a democracy.
I work hard for a living, your condescending post not withstanding. I pay my taxes and have had a job since I left university, I have just as might right as you do Sir to argue for what I believe in.
Your whole post is just pushing your ridiculous agenda onto me - but since you've not seen fit to apologise, I will have to leave it there. Wish you all the very best.
Anyway, I've promised I wouldn't reply any further but just wanted to clear that up for all here. All the very best to you and your family @Pagan2
Is it fun playing the “man of the people”?
I don't think that's at all fair to the current squad who seem keen enough, and on their day they are a match for anyone, but they are consistently inconsistent.
William Hill have paid out my (aftertimed!) bet on Kamala but she is still available at 1.01 at Betfair because there is many a slip betwixt now and the DNC next week. However, that is a bad value proxy bet for Biden to get the top slot which is 1.02 on Betfair (or 1/50 with Paddy Power; other bookmakers not checked!).
Now, 1.02 for Joe Biden to keep breathing for another week seems like reasonable value.
But if Biden does withdraw, what happens then? I doubt Kamala would inherit; Bernie Sanders was runner-up on delegates iirc. Late-night sessions in smoke-filled rooms followed by cries of stitch-up and betrayal, I expect.
Has there been any update on when we might see the EHRC report?
My inkling is she exaggerated/lied, thank Goodness she is not on the front bench anymore. I still think Keir gave the wrong response and should have said nothing
As to Norway that country you admire for its humane immigration policy......well doesnt seem like they accept that many refugees as I dont count fom migrants as refugees
https://www.worlddata.info/europe/norway/asylum.php
We've also guaranteed safe passage for those in Hong Kong who wish to escape the Chinese who reneged on the deal they signed in 1997, and continue to offer asylum to people from around the word escaping persecution.
That doesn't sound particularly "right-wing", or do you only count our view on those escaping the horrors of France and Belgium?
I mostly ignore your drivel but I just thought would prove you wrong again
A full video might show the police as unfailingly polite and apologetic or that Butler and her mate were abusive or uncooperative but even if all that were true, it would not address the reason of why the car was stopped in the first place. That is the crucial question and the rest is just a smokescreen.
If FoM was introduced now, along with tight restrictions on non-EU immigration, assorted lefties would be screaming that it was racist.
Well I grew up in the West Midlands so I know all about growing up in a multi-cultural area so don’t pretend you have a monopoly on the effects on the “poor” that immigration has, because you do not.
It didn't have to favour people from one country or the other, the UK Government chose to discriminate based on that fact.
That is the point
The old system was massively more favorable to those from EU countries and discriminated against those from non-EU countries.
The new system is merit-based, it doesn't care where you're from, and is therefore by definition less racist.
Boris is hopeless, as are most of the cabinet, but sadly labour are led by Starmer who is just dull and his shadow team are anonymous and equally inept
I would hope conservative mps start to wake up and look to replacing Boris early next year. He was good for Brexit but out of his comfort zone on covid
I fear for not only the UK, but Europe and the rest of the world as covid has not gone away and seems to be coming back with a vengence
The economic costs are dreadful with millions of job loses in industries gone for years and I have no idea how any government, including conservative or labour steers us to the other side
If I could I would form a GNU as I do not see anything else as viable
And on Brexit I would join the single market
I do not want to get into protracted arguments to be honest and will not be posting quite as much for now
You cannot preside over a catastrophically lost and epochally important referendum and still continue in power. Boris would be instant toast. Especially when everyone could say: It was in your power to refuse a referendum, why did you grant it?
They’d tell you to F off most likely, regardless of who they vote for.
Unfortunately the new system excludes us from joining EEA which is a complete misstep for our economy especially with what is going on.
I only ask as someone who drives a vehicle with tinted windows.
Let's see....
Ah.
https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/status/1287073687787778048?s=20