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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rewards for Failure

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rewards for Failure

John Bercow, Tom Watson and Karie Murphy should be feeling quite aggrieved, having apparently been blackballed from receiving peerages because of ongoing investigations into allegations about past behaviour. What is this novel concept of holding people accountable for their actions? It hasn’t been like this for ages – ever since lying, lustful Profumo went into the library with the metaphorical whisky and revolver. Soo unfair!

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    First!
  • Top post.

    If you want to see why this doesn't happen much look at what happened when Ed Balls fired Sharon Shoesmith
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Marcus Rashford, 2/1 for SPOTY with the magic sign
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,652
    How long before Starmer shouts at Boris Weak! Weak ! Weak !!!
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,920
    Good article.

    Having worked in both, I don't agree with the comment that the private sector is as bad as the public sector though. Of course there are plenty of over-promoted failures in both, but the discipline of bankruptcy in the private sector means things can never go beyond a certain level. And the obvious solution, or at least mitigation, in the private sector (promoting competition so that big companies don't have the ample profits to pay useless nonentities with) doesn't exist in the public sector.

    I suppose the obvious mitigation in the public sector is to "starve the best" as American conservatives say. Cut government funding so that it can't afford quangocrats earning outrageous salaries etc. The difficulty is obvious - rather than cut their own perks, public sector management would cut front line services. I'm sure any solution would be greatly appreciated.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    FPT:
    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wonderful law of unintended consequences here for the left. They've just campaigned to introduce a voucher based entitlement. Something that they (and I) have campaigned against for years has just been cheered across the line.

    More than 3 minutes spent thinking on this and they'll begin to realise what a gigantic error they've made. Instead of vouchers they should have asked for £120m in additional child tax credits.

    Why would that be better?
    Because the government has just introduced voucher based benefits and they have the support of the opposition. It sets a precedent. People often say that benefits should be paid like this to stop the poor from spending the benefits on fags and booze. The Left generally disagrees with this. Personally I don't like the idea of voucher based benefits, but given the trouble coming down the road, I can see them being attractive to the government.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325
    edited June 2020
    Excellent.

    I think this mystery is partially resolved by a few points. Firstly inequality of negotiating power. Those at the very top of large organisations, public and private have access to a quality of advice and help in areas of law (especially), PR, accountancy and every other department at which the ordinary punter would be amazed and staggered.

    Secondly the group at the very top of things is small and have a protective instinct towards each other.

    Thirdly, the way to protect yourself is by delay, confusion, complexification (really important), review, making something boring and the dispersal of responsibility so that blame is diluted and shared and confused. Expertise at the top about these arts is highly prized.

    Fourthly, and regrettably, the pool of people with those absolutely top abilities is not large. Real abilities including intellect, self preservation, shamelessness, capacity to be at the top when the balloon goes off and get away with it, talking the talk and various other things are rare and command a high price.

    Private Eye has been running stuff about all this nearly all my life. In these respects the world is not all that different to the day it started.

    None of this explains Chris Grayling.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Scrapping DFID is another example of the Brexiteers retreating from the World as it is into an imagined past they find preferable
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    April US retail sales - minus 16.4%
    March US retail sales - minus 8.7%

    That image of Wile E. Coyote running in mid air springs to mind.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,099
    Downloaded the coronawarn app earlier. No idea if it does what it's supposed to, but hasn't crashed or drained the battery so far.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Not everyone who fails moves on to new roles, Fred Goodwin for example
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Scott_xP said:

    Scrapping DFID is another example of the Brexiteers retreating from the World as it is into an imagined past they find preferable

    No post praising the Gov't about its decision to help starving children on the new thread Scott :) ?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    NHS England hospital numbers out - 79
    Last seven days - 70
    Last Tuesday - 129

    Big fall....

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    HYUFD said:
    Well duh. 0.7% of a smaller number is smaller than 0.7% of a bigger number. Who'd have thunk it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Boris Johnson - Lying disingenuous philandering turd (c).

    Worst PM in living memory!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    algarkirk said:

    Excellent.

    I think this mystery is partially resolved by a few points. Firstly inequality of negotiating power. Those at the very top of large organisations, public and private have access to a quality of advice and help in areas of law (especially), PR, accountancy and every other department at which the ordinary punter would be amazed and staggered.

    Secondly the group at the very top of things is small and have a protective instinct towards each other.

    Thirdly, the way to protect yourself is by delay, confusion, complexification (really important), review, making something boring and the dispersal of responsibility so that blame is diluted and shared and confused. Expertise at the top about these arts is highly prized.

    Fourthly, and regrettably, the pool of people with those absolutely top abilities is not large. Real abilities including intellect, self preservation, shamelessness, capacity to be at the top when the balloon goes off and get away with it, talking the talk and various other things are rare and command a high price.

    Private Eye has been running stuff about all this nearly all my life. In these respects the world is not all that different to the day it started.

    None of this explains Chris Grayling.

    Great article and also agree with the above.

    Many are lamenting the earnings of Rashford in the earlier thread. At least he is accountable for his salary on the pitch and if he doesnt deliver it will drop massively after a couple of years. The same doesnt apply and never has to the elite establishment (in the pre Brexit meaning of the words), their gravy train never runs dry.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    Bye-bye, DfID! There's one organization that won't be getting any rewards for failure... :wink:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    It seems like an age ago when Dennis Skinner quipped during the State Opening of Parliament to get a move on because the first race at Ascot was at 2.30pm.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    Some military bear soft porn for Eadric (has he disappeared off to the regeneration chamber?).

    https://twitter.com/DrSpock_MGBGA/status/1272138698721763329?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    HYUFD said:

    Not everyone who fails moves on to new roles, Fred Goodwin for example

    Life must be tough on a £17m pension funded by taxpayers bailing out his failed business and pension fund.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Some military bear soft porn for Eadric (has he disappeared off to the regeneration chamber?).

    https://twitter.com/DrSpock_MGBGA/status/1272138698721763329?s=20

    eadric suffered the wrath of the banhammer.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris Johnson - Lying disingenuous philandering turd (c).

    Worst PM in living memory!
    Is that last statement a quote from Captain Tom?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    Apart from to feed our needy children.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1272542347352571910
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2020

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    No, this is just cover to abolish the 0.7% of GDP commitment that David Cameron instituted. Foreign aid is dead - will please many but a real tragedy in my opinion.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Pulpstar said:

    No post praising the Gov't about its decision to help starving children on the new thread Scott :) ?

    Plenty on the previous thread...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751

    Some military bear soft porn for Eadric (has he disappeared off to the regeneration chamber?).

    https://twitter.com/DrSpock_MGBGA/status/1272138698721763329?s=20

    eadric suffered the wrath of the banhammer.
    Did he? Missed that.
    Anything naughty or one public pooping of his pants too far?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,855
    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    It's bonkers. Replicated across the whole economy that would be a depression level fall in GDP.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Interesting read, thanks Cyclefree.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    This isn't about cutting overseas aid

    It really is

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1272880374448885766
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,042
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:
    There's a lot that's interesting about this story, here again with more enthusiastic Tory support. Despite all the criticism about their celebrity status and money, not only do footballers still carry working-class aspirations, but when a young man is seen to defeat the government in this way, it reawakens both the Roy-of-the-Rovers romance that some people still see in the game, and a sense of the usually less politically powerful defeating the mighty. That may not be music to government supporters' ears, but it does go some way to cancelling out the polarising culture war noise of the last few days.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    If linking aid to diplomacy (and trade) is toxic - then France needs to be sealed in a barrel and dropped to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    kamski said:

    Downloaded the coronawarn app earlier. No idea if it does what it's supposed to, but hasn't crashed or drained the battery so far.

    The problem with it seems to be that it goes to sleep after a while. Which is why it doesn’t drain the battery. If you click on it, or if it comes into contact with another phone with the App ‘awake’, it will wake up and register the contact.

    But if two people come into contact with each other and both have Apps that are ‘asleep’ - which is very likely if they are from single person households - then neither App will wake up and register the contact.

    This seems to be why the national rollout of the App is being perpetually postponed,

    It hasn’t been said, but my guess is that if the App is revised to remain ‘awake’ all of the time, there will be a lot of islanders walking around with flat phone batteries.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited June 2020

    NHS England hospital numbers out - 79
    Last seven days - 70
    Last Tuesday - 129

    Big fall....

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Could we be down to near zero by August?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    Talk about symbolic actions! "North Korea blows up liaison office in Kaesong used for talks with South"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,442
    TimT said:

    Talk about symbolic actions! "North Korea blows up liaison office in Kaesong used for talks with South"

    It reads like a power move (succession move?) by Jong-Un's sister, but the news media don't seem to think so.

    She threatened to do it last week.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    TimT said:

    Talk about symbolic actions! "North Korea blows up liaison office in Kaesong used for talks with South"

    Dont give Cummings ideas as the EU talks go down to the wire.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Some military bear soft porn for Eadric (has he disappeared off to the regeneration chamber?).

    https://twitter.com/DrSpock_MGBGA/status/1272138698721763329?s=20

    eadric suffered the wrath of the banhammer.
    Did he? Missed that.
    Anything naughty or one public pooping of his pants too far?
    I'd rather not repeat it but needless to say OGH gave multiple warnings to cool it that were ignored.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    I hope Marcus gets in touch with Labour to thank them.

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    NHS England hospital numbers out - 79
    Last seven days - 70
    Last Tuesday - 129

    Big fall....

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Could we be down to near zero by August?
    I think it *could* be sooner.

    The South West now has multiple days with zero - 9th, 10th, 14th

  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    edited June 2020
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Downloaded the coronawarn app earlier. No idea if it does what it's supposed to, but hasn't crashed or drained the battery so far.

    The problem with it seems to be that it goes to sleep after a while. Which is why it doesn’t drain the battery. If you click on it, or if it comes into contact with another phone with the App ‘awake’, it will wake up and register the contact.

    But if two people come into contact with each other and both have Apps that are ‘asleep’ - which is very likely if they are from single person households - then neither App will wake up and register the contact.

    This seems to be why the national rollout of the App is being perpetually postponed,

    It hasn’t been said, but my guess is that if the App is revised to remain ‘awake’ all of the time, there will be a lot of islanders walking around with flat phone batteries.
    Personally I suspect the app doesn't wake up when another phone "wakes" it up - but that would be an embarrassment too far for the NHS and the app creators to admit.

    The problem is that you can't revise the App to remain awake all the time - both iOS and android phones are designed to ensure bluetooth is switched off after a while to avoid accidental privacy leaks.

    The entire point of the new API that google and apple wrote was to create a means for the phones to keep bluetooth active all the time.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    Hmmm - you really can't see the wood from the trees. This is cover to CUT overseas aid. As I said it will please many ugly right-wingers!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,099
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Downloaded the coronawarn app earlier. No idea if it does what it's supposed to, but hasn't crashed or drained the battery so far.

    The problem with it seems to be that it goes to sleep after a while. Which is why it doesn’t drain the battery. If you click on it, or if it comes into contact with another phone with the App ‘awake’, it will wake up and register the contact.

    But if two people come into contact with each other and both have Apps that are ‘asleep’ - which is very likely if they are from single person households - then neither App will wake up and register the contact.

    This seems to be why the national rollout of the App is being perpetually postponed,

    It hasn’t been said, but my guess is that if the App is revised to remain ‘awake’ all of the time, there will be a lot of islanders walking around with flat phone batteries.
    sorry, I meant the RKI app in Germany
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,203
    Cyclefree is conflating a lot of factors here.
    Grayling's longevity is not based on his competence, it's based on political considerations.

    Cressida Dick certainly presided over a terrible operation, (although I think she was personally exonerated in the investigation) but she has surely done lots of other things well to get promoted. Should they not count for anything?

    If our criteria for top jobs is 'never having made a mistake/overseen a disaster', then we will end up with inexperienced leaders.

    I personally would distinguish between incompetence (people can learn from experience) and dishonesty (should be a bar).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    Hmmm - you really can't see the wood from the trees. This is cover to CUT overseas aid. As I said it will please many ugly right-wingers!
    No, that commitment remains.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    Apart from to feed our needy children.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1272542347352571910
    Well the money saved from DFID can go to fund the extended food vouchers for schoolchildren.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725

    Some military bear soft porn for Eadric (has he disappeared off to the regeneration chamber?).

    https://twitter.com/DrSpock_MGBGA/status/1272138698721763329?s=20

    eadric suffered the wrath of the banhammer.
    From what I hear, his life would be a lot happier if he didn’t take such delight in being needlessly offensive.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    And Robbie - how do you think the lying disenengeous racist philanderer is handling the Covid-19 pandemic? Meeting expectations?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    Scott_xP said:
    I thought we were already the Policeman of the world.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    Apart from to feed our needy children.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1272542347352571910
    Well the money saved from DFID can go to fund the extended food vouchers for schoolchildren.
    There's no money saved from DFID you ignoramus.

    Have a look at understand what is actually happening. You are so uncompassionate and make a mockery of the Conservative Party. The PM has made it clear this is not about cutting the aid budget which will be maintained.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,971
    The news on Dexamethasone makes HMG's failure on the first wave of Covid-19 even more costly. Even if we hadn't been unable, ultimately, to prevent those infections, delaying them to after this discovery would have saved more than 12,000 lives.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,203
    Fishing said:

    Good article.

    Having worked in both, I don't agree with the comment that the private sector is as bad as the public sector though. Of course there are plenty of over-promoted failures in both, but the discipline of bankruptcy in the private sector means things can never go beyond a certain level.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_UBS_rogue_trader_scandal
    I think things can go pretty far in the private sector!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Attentive PB’ers might remember that I bought some Carnival shares during the depths of the market. A week or two later I was thinking I had been rash, but I have managed to sell them now for a decent profit.

    The stock market is being propped up by lack of any decent alternative for people with spare capital to put their money, with interest rates at rock bottom. It’s a dangerous state of affairs that won’t take much to turn.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    The PM has made it clear

    ROFLMAO

    Just like the Irish border...
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    Hmmm - you really can't see the wood from the trees. This is cover to CUT overseas aid. As I said it will please many ugly right-wingers!
    No, that commitment remains.
    I don't think you've read the small-print. The UK is cutting overseas aid.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,652
    edited June 2020

    The news on Dexamethasone makes HMG's failure on the first wave of Covid-19 even more costly. Even if we hadn't been unable, ultimately, to prevent those infections, delaying them to after this discovery would have saved more than 12,000 lives.

    revisionist thinking. Just think, if we had delayed people getting infected with TB until such times as penicillin had been discovered, just think how many lives could have been saved..
    How many lives did Warmonger Blair cost.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Downloaded the coronawarn app earlier. No idea if it does what it's supposed to, but hasn't crashed or drained the battery so far.

    The problem with it seems to be that it goes to sleep after a while. Which is why it doesn’t drain the battery. If you click on it, or if it comes into contact with another phone with the App ‘awake’, it will wake up and register the contact.

    But if two people come into contact with each other and both have Apps that are ‘asleep’ - which is very likely if they are from single person households - then neither App will wake up and register the contact.

    This seems to be why the national rollout of the App is being perpetually postponed,

    It hasn’t been said, but my guess is that if the App is revised to remain ‘awake’ all of the time, there will be a lot of islanders walking around with flat phone batteries.
    sorry, I meant the RKI app in Germany
    Let’s hope your App works better than ours!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    edited June 2020
    glw said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    It's bonkers. Replicated across the whole economy that would be a depression level fall in GDP.
    Not sure its fully bonkers:

    There is massive QE in the US again, that money has to go somewhere and it is designed to prop up and inflate asset prices again. If not buying shares what? Govt debt? Business debt? Property? None seem any more appealing than shares.

    Covid has hit businesses and governments hard but not the typical household*. More households will have excess savings and spending power rather than less as their incomes have been protected but discretionary spending for 3 months was close to nil.

    A large proportion of the DOW stocks are not negatively impacted by Covid at all - many tech companies benefit from the shift to working from home for example.

    After falls last week I was looking to buy this week if it dropped any lower, but given todays news and massive rises Ill hold off. Its not miles off the right price though.


    * Not diminishing the severe and tragic impact of covid on a minority of households, but the majority have had the same income as before and lower costs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Attentive PB’ers might remember that I bought some Carnival shares during the depths of the market. A week or two later I was thinking I had been rash, but I have managed to sell them now for a decent profit.

    The stock market is being propped up by lack of any decent alternative for people with spare capital to put their money, with interest rates at rock bottom. It’s a dangerous state of affairs that won’t take much to turn.
    It is unusual to be able to see an investment so well:

    https://onthewight.com/ships-parking-off-isle-of-wight-bembridge-to-ventnor-bring-exhaust-fumes-and-deep-vibrations-say-residents/
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,073
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Attentive PB’ers might remember that I bought some Carnival shares during the depths of the market. A week or two later I was thinking I had been rash, but I have managed to sell them now for a decent profit.

    The stock market is being propped up by lack of any decent alternative for people with spare capital to put their money, with interest rates at rock bottom. It’s a dangerous state of affairs that won’t take much to turn.
    I`m positioned very defensively (for me). Weight of money is all that matters, it`s true, but I sense that when economic chickens come home to roost as we come out of lockdown the markets will prove unsustainable at these levels.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,855
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    Hmmm - you really can't see the wood from the trees. This is cover to CUT overseas aid. As I said it will please many ugly right-wingers!
    No, that commitment remains.
    I don't think you've read the small-print. The UK is cutting overseas aid.
    Aid is set at 0.7% of GDP.
    The UK is in recession.
    Recession means GDP is going down.

    Therefore what happens to the Aid budget?

    Its basic mathematics.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    Scott_xP said:
    Perhaps if Remain had taken a view that our share of the EU's contribution to oversea's aid would count towards our 0.7%, then perhaps we would have voted to stay. Another missed opportunity.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    On topic, yes, there does seem to be a level at which you can never fail, however bad you are at your job.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    Depends on your objectives. The budget boost will be welcome to the Foreign Office who now have some patronage. Ambassadors can shower their "aid" budget on the president's nephew and in this way buy influence. If on the other hand you see development aid as a force for the good, there will be less of that good happening
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    Hmmm - you really can't see the wood from the trees. This is cover to CUT overseas aid. As I said it will please many ugly right-wingers!
    No, that commitment remains.
    I don't think you've read the small-print. The UK is cutting overseas aid.
    That's because GDP has fallen massively, the commitment to spend 0.7% of GDP remains. A figure far higher than under any previous government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,215

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    Shame that it's Dominic Raab's.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
    *Facepalm*

    The budget is 0.7% Of GDP.

    This isn't austerity, this is a recession. Do you understand the difference. What is 0.7% of GDP if GDP goes down?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Having development linked with diplomacy is not toxic.

    Having an ambassador responsible for and understanding the development aid being given to the country he or she is ambassador for is entirely logical.

    Integrating foreign policy and development has been done already across the OECD.
    Didn't you get the memo? If the UK does something, it is bad, but if another country does it, it is good.
    Robbie - I know you're the PB Tory cheerleader but surely you can do better than that! We all know the PB Tories are ugly but the shared braincell wasn't present when you made that comment!
    Given it is widespread in the OECD what is the problem with the proposal?
    And Robbie - how do you think the lying disenengeous racist philanderer is handling the Covid-19 pandemic? Meeting expectations?
    That isn't my name.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    Sean_F said:

    On topic, yes, there does seem to be a level at which you can never fail, however bad you are at your job.

    That's because the people who placed you at that level cannot admit they were wrong - so it's better and easier to shunt you elsewhere instead of fixing the issue.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725

    HYUFD said:
    There's a lot that's interesting about this story, here again with more enthusiastic Tory support. Despite all the criticism about their celebrity status and money, not only do footballers still carry working-class aspirations, but when a young man is seen to defeat the government in this way, it reawakens both the Roy-of-the-Rovers romance that some people still see in the game, and a sense of the usually less politically powerful defeating the mighty. That may not be music to government supporters' ears, but it does go some way to cancelling out the polarising culture war noise of the last few days.
    The issue isn’t the u-turns, but the habit of this government in tying itself to hopeless positions.

    As most PB’ers spotted, the position on school meals was obviously destined to be abandoned.

    We have a newly introduced and pointless quarantine policy, which will soon be waived for all EU countries, exempting the vast majority of returning and incoming travellers.

    We have the government clinging to a two metre rule when all the signs are that, outdoors at least, one metre would be just as safe - and so soon we will see yet another u-turn.

    The government offensive against the virus is starting to make the Italian invasion of Albania look like a well executed plan.
This discussion has been closed.