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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The thing is, Boris was elected in December on a promise to level things up. He explictly said to nominal Labour voters who had lent him their votes that he would endeavour to do so.

    So a couple of weeks ago he listened to the LotO and changed his policy on the fee for foreign NHS workers, and today he has listened to a young, northern, black man and implemented a social democratic policy that will benefit the worst off in society. Obviously they aren't going to be his instincts, he is a Bullingdon Boy. Those who hate him like they hate rival football teams will never be happy, but the fact is he is doing what he said he would do.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
    So still no longer increasing year on year as it was for the last decade, thanks for the confirmation
    You still don't understand maths.

    The commitment was never to increase it year on year it was to keep it 0.7% of GDP. George Osborne and David Cameron would have cut it if there was ever a recession too.

    PS just read your exchange with @kjh at the end of the last thread where I was namechecked by both of you. Needless to say, I agree with @kjh not you then too - though for the record I'd be spitting out my coffee, not my tea.
    You should be drinking homegrown tea from Yorkshire or Dorset, not that foreign muck....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    So let's get this clear. When it comes to Dom or govt u-turns twitter is an irrelevant echo chamber; when it comes to criticism of Labour, twitter is an incisive, biting commentary on policy and actions.

    That it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    Like the 44% of voters who are 'right-wing nutters' and who voted for the Tories last year
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Attentive PB’ers might remember that I bought some Carnival shares during the depths of the market. A week or two later I was thinking I had been rash, but I have managed to sell them now for a decent profit.

    The stock market is being propped up by lack of any decent alternative for people with spare capital to put their money, with interest rates at rock bottom. It’s a dangerous state of affairs that won’t take much to turn.
    I`m positioned very defensively (for me). Weight of money is all that matters, it`s true, but I sense that when economic chickens come home to roost as we come out of lockdown the markets will prove unsustainable at these levels.
    5000 before 7000?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    That is a shame. I would so love it to be real and Rashford would certainly go up in my estimation if it was.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Regarding the article , and Cressida Dick seems over the top.
    She was head of Gold command during a major terrorism outbreak in London, had to make a decision in real time on the information given.
    Easy to pontificate on the internet, after the event.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited June 2020

    DavidL said:

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.

    100% agreed.

    Sacking those who get things wrong means you encourage cover ups and not transparency, honesty and learning from mistakes.
    If you were a football manager, would you not drop players who weren't performing? The odd minor error and occasional poor match might be forgivable, but if you're making match-changing mistakes and there's a better option on the bench, that's just tough.

    Being a government minister isn't a job for life (short of gross misconduct or whatever). It's a call up from the reserves to the first team and, if you're not performing and there are better options, it's cheerio mate.

    I don't buy into this idea that the best person to clean up the turd in the drawing room is the person who coiled it out. The best person to do it is a competent cleaner, and the punishment for the culprit is simply being cast into the outer darkness.

    (DavidL makes the slightly different point that if it is NOT your mistake, you shouldn't go - which makes more sense, although it's possible that your failure to have identified and dealt with the problem is itself a problem - simply saying "I'd not bothered looking into it so am not to blame" doesn't cut it.)
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited June 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Like I said, Boris can't say no. He cannot tough out bad headlines. He cannot withstand the baying of the twitter mob. He just cannot.

    Cummings is a special case, to let him go would have been terminal for Johnson anyway.

    Everything else is surrender, surrender, surrender.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    PB Tories will never learn, I mean that landslide election defeat in December really put them in their place.

    hang on...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited June 2020
    Some interesting thoughts in the header.

    I would say this needs to be looked in relation to a public service ethos, which once applied in various parts of the economy well outside the private sector, and the self-congratulatory, triumphant market logic, that's prevailed since the 1980s.

    If you truly believe that your position and very substantial salary are immutable reward for your talents, under an iron law of the market, why embrace older concepts, such as honour of service and permanent responsibility ? Resignations, withdrawing from a role and corporate fallibility are inextricably linked to this. Not taking responsibiity is not, usually, due to relativistic cultural trends, in large corporations and government, as some on the right might believe - these generally hold little sway at the top of these institutions - but because not taking responsibility is a flipside of believing that the market takes responsibility and purifies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    That doesn't stop them from being idiots. They should have seen this coming. Sensible to keep the scheme in place over the summer. A drop in the ocean compared to spending elsewhere.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    That's the main reason to come here. Where else are you going to meet them?
    As long as I don't have to kiss them.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    I don't support this 'u-turn' but surely a lot of people want a less ideological government who take ideas from the right and left and listen to both evidence and public opinion. Perhaps the public like that concept and it is one of the reasons they remain ahead in the polls.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    That doesn't stop them from being idiots. They should have seen this coming. Sensible to keep the scheme in place over the summer. A drop in the ocean compared to spending elsewhere.
    One thing is certain, though - if things are back to normal. and he drops the scheme next summer, the haters will be saying, or posting numerous tweets of other people saying, he is starving poor kids to death.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    So let's get this clear. When it comes to Dom or govt u-turns twitter is an irrelevant echo chamber; when it comes to criticism of Labour, twitter is an incisive, biting commentary on policy and actions.

    That it?
    Hoist by their own petard. The ones who care for twitter and post it reletlessly should always be aware it can bite the hand that feeds it,
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    edited June 2020

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    Sometimes I wonder if anyone other than me has read the Conservative manifesto, and tbh I'm not sure about yours truly. So far as I can see, the manifesto was silent on school meals, silent on winding up the DfID but did commit to maintain foreign aid at 0.7 per cent.

    ETA sorry -- missed this on school dinners: we will continue
    our efforts through the tax and benefits system to reduce poverty,
    including child poverty. Children should grow up in an environment
    with no limits to their potential – which is one of the reasons we are
    making it a priority to put more money in the pockets of low-paid
    workers and maintaining our commitment to free school meals.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Repeatedly setting off in the wrong direction, however, is not.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    So let's get this clear. When it comes to Dom or govt u-turns twitter is an irrelevant echo chamber; when it comes to criticism of Labour, twitter is an incisive, biting commentary on policy and actions.

    That it?
    Hoist by their own petard. The ones who care for twitter and post it reletlessly should always be aware it can bite the hand that feeds it,
    You just posted that twitter is giving Lab a pasting which suggests you think it is significant. Whereas for Dom and the hungry children you busily tell us that twitter is irrelevant.

    So which is it? Is it relevant or irrelevant?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    You were quite happy with Cameron who took loads of wrong turns and threw in the occasional U.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    Who keep winning.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Yes.

    Acknowledging when you're going wrong is a strength not a weakness. Trying to cover it up and dig in is a weakness.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Repeatedly setting off in the wrong direction, however, is not.
    It's sending people out to defend it and then going on to change their mind the same day which is the most damaging.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    I don;t see how this departmental merger changes much or plays to the 'base'

    The ringfenced cash is still the same amount in percentage terms.

    "Oi, Frank, heard what old Boris has done?"

    "Had another one, has he, randy fucker?"

    "Ha ha ha. No, the Aid thing. Overseas Aid."

    "Yeah, what?"

    "He's only gone and abolished the whole fucking department, hasn't he."

    "You're joking me!"

    "I am not."

    "Playerrrr."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Contrarian, hmm...

    I wonder if he's Henry VI, and Cummings is acting as his wife. Politically, of course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    You were quite happy with Cameron who took loads of wrong turns and threw in the occasional U.
    You mean the pasty tax? Oh happy times.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    That doesn't stop them from being idiots. They should have seen this coming. Sensible to keep the scheme in place over the summer. A drop in the ocean compared to spending elsewhere.
    One thing is certain, though - if things are back to normal. and he drops the scheme next summer, the haters will be saying, or posting numerous tweets of other people saying, he is starving poor kids to death.
    1.01
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.

    100% agreed.

    Sacking those who get things wrong means you encourage cover ups and not transparency, honesty and learning from mistakes.
    If you were a football manager, would you not drop players who weren't performing? The odd minor error and occasional poor match might be forgivable, but if you're making match-changing mistakes and there's a better option on the bench, that's just tough.

    Being a government minister isn't a job for life (short of gross misconduct or whatever). It's a call up from the reserves to the first team and, if you're not performing and there are better options, it's cheerio mate.

    I don't buy into this idea that the best person to clean up the turd in the drawing room is the person who coiled it out. The best person to do it is a competent cleaner, and the punishment for the culprit is simply being cast into the outer darkness.

    (DavidL makes the slightly different point that if it is NOT your mistake, you shouldn't go - which makes more sense, although it's possible that your failure to have identified and dealt with the problem is itself a problem - simply saying "I'd not bothered looking into it so am not to blame" doesn't cut it.)
    Again there's a difference between repeatedly making match-changing errors and making one but still being the best player for the role.

    Even if at the Merseyside Derby Virgil van Dijk makes a catastrophic error that causes us to lose the game he would still have had a great season and be worthy of his role next game. If he learns from that error and comes back stronger then all the better.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Boris is a Bullingdon Boy trying to govern as a Social Democrat. The fact he is happy to listen to left wingers, and sometimes enact their policies, should be a happy thing for everyone bar radical small statists
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.

    It will matter because the FO will spend the money for different purposes from the DfID. The UK has lost a lot of influence in the world thanks to Brexit and will, I think, aim to buy some of it back. Expect a chunk of this money to end up in Europe. The EU has 27 member states all with a veto vote...
    Isnt the aid budget limited to developing countries as defined by the OECD?
    Checked and you're right. EU members are excluded from the definition of development aid.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    You were quite happy with Cameron who took loads of wrong turns and threw in the occasional U.
    You mean the pasty tax? Oh happy times.
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    You were quite happy with Cameron who took loads of wrong turns and threw in the occasional U.
    You mean the pasty tax? Oh happy times.
    Amongst others. I think Camerons greatest waste of political capital was the whole Leveson shenanigans. All that effort and then nothing.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    So let's get this clear. When it comes to Dom or govt u-turns twitter is an irrelevant echo chamber; when it comes to criticism of Labour, twitter is an incisive, biting commentary on policy and actions.

    That it?
    Hoist by their own petard. The ones who care for twitter and post it reletlessly should always be aware it can bite the hand that feeds it,
    You just posted that twitter is giving Lab a pasting which suggests you think it is significant. Whereas for Dom and the hungry children you busily tell us that twitter is irrelevant.

    So which is it? Is it relevant or irrelevant?
    irrelevant to me, but clearly not to others!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Few more polls came through, inc MI+16 and AZ+4:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1272894207959728132
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Yes.

    Acknowledging when you're going wrong is a strength not a weakness. Trying to cover it up and dig in is a weakness.
    LOL

    The more they are wrong the happier you are.

    You and HYUFD really are priceless.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Yes.

    Acknowledging when you're going wrong is a strength not a weakness. Trying to cover it up and dig in is a weakness.
    LOL

    The more they are wrong the happier you are.

    You and HYUFD really are priceless.
    That's not what I said.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    On topic - a major issue in this country is the religious belief that public accountability is satisfied by Ministers resigning.

    An interesting vignette on this - I was told by the friend who was being penalised for being successful in working on the Nightingale Project the following.

    That there is anger among the Apparatchiks.

    Why? Well, apparently several ministers are saying that they will not take responsibility for decisions made by staff. And name staff involved.

    On what grounds? - that said decisions were counter to written instructions from said ministers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Boris is a Bullingdon Boy trying to govern as a Social Democrat. The fact he is happy to listen to left wingers, and sometimes enact their policies, should be a happy thing for everyone bar radical small statists
    He should try doing it in a less cack-handed way. :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Boris is a Bullingdon Boy trying to govern as a Social Democrat. The fact he is happy to listen to left wingers, and sometimes enact their policies, should be a happy thing for everyone bar radical small statists
    He is not a leader. As I said when he was under the weather with CV-19 I really don't mind any kind of leader as long as they are a) a leader; and b) operating at 100%. I would take that. Boris fulfils neither of those criteria.

    Whatever his inclination, social democracy, left wing woolly liberalism, it doesn't matter. Because he is neither a leader nor operating at 100%, he is not an effective PM and the country will suffer. Is suffering.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
  • What an odd hill for the Government to die on
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    What an odd hill for the Government to die on

    I think they withdrew instead.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Boris is a Bullingdon Boy trying to govern as a Social Democrat. The fact he is happy to listen to left wingers, and sometimes enact their policies, should be a happy thing for everyone bar radical small statists
    He should try doing it in a less cack-handed way. :D
    I am able to cut him some slack while there's pandemics and race riots going on.
  • Some interesting thoughts in the header.

    I would say this needs to be looked in relation to a public service ethos, which once applied in various parts of the economy well outside the private sector, and the self-congratulatory, triumphant market logic, that's prevailed since the 1980s.

    If you truly believe that your position and very substantial salary are immutable reward for your talents, under an iron law of the market, why embrace older concepts, such as honour of service and permanent responsibility ? Resignations, withdrawing from a role and corporate fallibility are inextricably linked to this. Not taking responsibiity is not, usually, due to relativistic cultural trends, in large corporations and government, as some on the right might believe - these generally hold little sway at the top of these institutions - but because not taking responsibility is a flipside of believing that the market takes responsibility and purifies.

    Well outside the public sector, that obviously should read.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    I'm shocked that an EU bureaucrat would be exaggerating the contribution of the EU. Utterly shocked.
  • What an odd hill for the Government to die on

    What an odd communications strategy, as well.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited June 2020

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Yes.

    Acknowledging when you're going wrong is a strength not a weakness. Trying to cover it up and dig in is a weakness.
    LOL

    The more they are wrong the happier you are.

    You and HYUFD really are priceless.
    That's not what I said.
    The Government being wrong and then u-turning is a strength so therefore the more often it is wrong and then u-turns the stronger it is and the happier you are.
  • I guess Labour's new found competence is allowing the Government to be shown for the morons I always knew they were. Despite my many admirations for Corbyn, it must be said that his opposition skills were often weak.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    Worth publishing the list

    1. United States 31.00
    2. United Kingdom 12.46
    3. Japan 11.19
    4. France 10.60
    5. Germany 10.44
    6. Netherlands 5.45
    7. United Arab Emirates 5.20
    8. Sweden 3.95
    9. Canada 3.90
    10. Spain 3.81

    So France and Germany aren't far behind the UK and the Netherlands and Sweden both donate far more per capita.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    The lack of wealth in Yorkshire is a legacy of the Harrowing of the North*.

    Should Normandy be giving us money?

    Not asking for that. I think it's a daft idea. Nor do I think the Italians owe us, nor the Romans.

    *For those wondering, it wiped out about thee-quarters of the population. Imagine England if there were about 15m more people, all in the north. Ok, that's a very rough and ready number, and it could well be more, but it does give an indication of the significance of the Harrowing on the population composition of England.

    Harrowing? It could have been worse. Imagine if you'd been Harlowed?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    Because they're the right thing to do?

    U turning when you're going in the wrong direction is how you win another majority next time.
    Er, so the great news is that the government time after time is going in the wrong direction?

    I mean does that fill you with confidence?
    Yes.

    Acknowledging when you're going wrong is a strength not a weakness. Trying to cover it up and dig in is a weakness.
    LOL

    The more they are wrong the happier you are.

    You and HYUFD really are priceless.
    That's not what I said.
    The Government being wrong and then u-turning is a strength so therefore the more often it is wrong and then u-turns the stronger it is and the happier you are.
    All Governments make mistakes. If you're not making mistakes you're not making enough decisions.

    Being transparent and acknowledging them is better than trying to cover them up and die on a hill.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    His maturity is beyond his years and he is a star, not just on the pitch, but for so many suffering from poverty

    I hope he continues to star in both fields for years to come

    He is the best of role models
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited June 2020
    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    That's presumably just one of the EU aid budgets. They claim a total of €50 billion a year.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-development-cooperation-fundamental-rights/recipients-and-results-eu-aid_en

    EDIT Although that seems to include national budgets.., so maybe not...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    What an odd hill for the Government to die on

    What hill are the Government trying to die on in your eyes?

    Are you talking about the DFID/FCO merger? Or the issue they resolved hours ago within 24 hours of it becoming a story?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited June 2020
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    That's presumably just one of the EU aid budgets. They claim a total of €50 billion a year.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-development-cooperation-fundamental-rights/recipients-and-results-eu-aid_en
    Is that like how they claimed to win the most medals at the olympics?

    And just a hint: 50bn Euros is a third of the entire EU budget.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    That's presumably just one of the EU aid budgets. They claim a total of €50 billion a year.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-development-cooperation-fundamental-rights/recipients-and-results-eu-aid_en
    The Eu collectively probably means EU plus national contributions.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    That's presumably just one of the EU aid budgets. They claim a total of €50 billion a year.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-development-cooperation-fundamental-rights/recipients-and-results-eu-aid_en

    Although that seems to include national budgets.., so maybe not...
    Because they were claiming UK aid as EU aid when we were in the EU.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    But but but the EU can count national contributions as their own (just like Olympic medals).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Mr. Contrarian, hmm...

    I wonder if he's Henry VI, and Cummings is acting as his wife. Politically, of course.

    Mr Dancer maybe Cummings just has his head in the clouds. He's not worried about £100m budgets, he's more about the herculean task of rebuilding and reforming the UK machine, a task made much more difficult by COVID. This stuff just gets by him and there's nobody else with any sense about.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited June 2020

    What an odd hill for the Government to die on

    What hill are the Government trying to die on in your eyes?

    Are you talking about the DFID/FCO merger? Or the issue they resolved hours ago within 24 hours of it becoming a story?
    Where they U-turned on a decision that would have cost £140m (pocket change), because a famous footballer showed them up.

    Of course your buddies at CCHQ will have their own way of describing it but anyone sane knows what happened.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?
  • Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    But but but the EU can count national contributions as their own (just like Olympic medals).
    Its a lie in other words. That would work if the UK government could count charitable donations as its own too.

    UK citizens give away billions each year to charities for international aid but that doesn't get included.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Andrew said:

    Few more polls came through, inc MI+16 and AZ+4:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1272894207959728132

    Again, all these state polling figures are very similar to polling during summer 2016, which is somewhat remarkable given events.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    What an odd hill for the Government to die on

    What hill are the Government trying to die on in your eyes?

    Are you talking about the DFID/FCO merger? Or the issue they resolved hours ago within 24 hours of it becoming a story?
    Where they U-turned on a decision that would have cost £140m (pocket change), because a famous footballer showed them up.

    Of course your buddies at CCHQ will have their own way of describing it but anyone sane knows what happened.
    Dying on the hill would have been not u-turning.

    I don't think you understood the meaning of the phrase you used.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hill_to_die_on#:~:text=hill to die on (plural,no regard to the cost.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Honestly why didn't the government try to get its hands on as much dexa-metha- thingy as poss before announcing its efficacy?

    At least it could have made the taxpayer a few quid flogging it to other countries.

    Its not like we don't need the cash.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.

    If they are so comfortable with their 80-seat majority, why the u-turns?
    That doesn't stop them from being idiots. They should have seen this coming. Sensible to keep the scheme in place over the summer. A drop in the ocean compared to spending elsewhere.
    One thing is certain, though - if things are back to normal. and he drops the scheme next summer, the haters will be saying, or posting numerous tweets of other people saying, he is starving poor kids to death.
    People said that before summer 2019, I'm sure, and previous summers too. Didn't stop the Tories winning the election.

    I think the circumstances now are different, which is something many backbench Tory MPs recognised before their PM. In 2021 an argument that you can't spend money on everything you want to spend on will be easier to make if Covid restrictions are gone and you can more easily argue people who need more money should earn more money.

    You can't make that argument now when government fiat has closed entire sectors of the economy.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
    I see this but I can't find what metric the market is based on....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce-the-u-s-economy-is-officially-in-a-recession
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
    I see this but I can't find what metric the market is based on....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce-the-u-s-economy-is-officially-in-a-recession
    Its not official yet under the traditional definition that Betfair have used (two consecutive quarters of decline).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    + 1

    That tweet hits the nail on the head!
    Except that it is complete crap. The EU foreign aid budget in 2019 was 1.6bnEuros: https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

    The top 10 donors are here: https://www.countriesnow.com/top-10-largest-donor-of-foreign-aid-in-the-world-3/
    Our budget was over $10.6bn and the second largest in the world. Or, to put it another way little Britain's aid budget will be more than 6x the EU budget.
    But but but the EU can count national contributions as their own (just like Olympic medals).
    So they slashed their foreign aid budget earlier this year when we left? Disgraceful.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_xP said:
    Yeah, but more importantly, what do Kane, Rashford and Sterling think?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    Somehow they don't seem to understand what the word 'former' means... :wink:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
    I see this but I can't find what metric the market is based on....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce-the-u-s-economy-is-officially-in-a-recession
    Its not official yet under the traditional definition that Betfair have used (two consecutive quarters of decline).
    Might not end up being a recession under Betfair's rules because the initial plunge was so steep and fast.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited June 2020

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
    I see this but I can't find what metric the market is based on....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce-the-u-s-economy-is-officially-in-a-recession
    Its not official yet under the traditional definition that Betfair have used (two consecutive quarters of decline).
    Cheers.

    Is there a lag between the end of the second quarter and official confirmation to account for data analysis etc?

    I did lay this off last week so I'm not too bothered but it helps to be informed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    It's not official yet is it?
    I see this but I can't find what metric the market is based on....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce-the-u-s-economy-is-officially-in-a-recession
    Its not official yet under the traditional definition that Betfair have used (two consecutive quarters of decline).
    Might not end up being a recession under Betfair's rules because the initial plunge was so steep and fast.
    Unlikely given that January and much of February was before the worst of the crash hit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Hearing rumours that a rather 'out of the box' proposal on how foreign aid should now be targeted is coming soon from Paul Merson.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    General global acclaim probably helped Tony get much richer. And Gordo. Cam never needed the money

    Ordinary people are finding 'general global acclaim' doesn't pay off their mortgages tho
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Great news about the coronavirus treatment, cutting deaths by a third for £50 a patient? Not bad.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Scott_xP said:
    Canada, Australia, New Zealand and all but 1 OECD member does it the Boris way

    Just cannot get excited about this and I doubt neither will the public
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Scott_xP said:
    The short term impact will be that 'our officials won't be feted so much at those fab overseas receptions'
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Honestly why didn't the government try to get its hands on as much dexa-metha- thingy as poss before announcing its efficacy?

    They did.

    The UK government has stockpiled 200,000 courses the drug and says the NHS will make dexamethasone available as treatment for patients on ventilators and oxygen.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2020


    Again, all these state polling figures are very similar to polling during summer 2016, which is somewhat remarkable given events.

    Some were indeed, but Michigan appears to be a much bigger lead. This quite a significant difference, opens up so many more paths for Biden.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Honestly why didn't the government try to get its hands on as much dexa-metha- thingy as poss before announcing its efficacy?

    They did.

    The UK government has stockpiled 200,000 courses the drug and says the NHS will make dexamethasone available as treatment for patients on ventilators and oxygen.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
    Excellent.

    If we're bringing back the 80s, then its fitting we are bringing back its finest traditions.

    Arthur Daley, Del Trotter, and insider trading....
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Does anyone know when Betfair will settle the US recession market?

    If they base it on two consecutive quarters of negative GDP presumably the market settles when the first estimate of Q2 GDP is published on 30 July - although it is more or less mathematically impossible for Q2 growth to be positive. If they base it on the NBER who have a quasi official role in dating US recessions then they should pay up already because they called it last Monday.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Andrew said:

    Few more polls came through, inc MI+16 and AZ+4:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1272894207959728132

    Again, all these state polling figures are very similar to polling during summer 2016, which is somewhat remarkable given events.
    It's more that the events were remarkable given the polling.

    And so the question is - will lightening strike twice?

    To which the answer is no.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Scott_xP said:
    Canada, Australia, New Zealand and all but 1 OECD member does it the Boris way

    Just cannot get excited about this and I doubt neither will the public
    Ah - so this is an "Australian style" foreign aid system.

    Alles klar.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    That's excellent – all credit to (assume) Bonneville for getting the reportage VT
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    What are the apparent benefits to the UK of the large contributions made with taxpayers' money to other nations?

    I think we used to have a sort of business investment fund that invested in poorer parts of the world in return for some of the profits, which sounds mutually beneficial and sensible, but believe Brown axed that.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Andrew said:


    Again, all these state polling figures are very similar to polling during summer 2016, which is somewhat remarkable given events.

    Some were indeed, but Michigan appears to be a much bigger lead. This quite a significant difference, opens up so many more paths for Biden.

    I don't think that's true, Clinton had many double digit leads in MI, including 16 and 14 points.

    Of course that doesn't mean things will turn out the same in November, but these numbers are not unprecedented.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Scott_xP said:
    The short term impact will be that 'our officials won't be feted so much at those fab overseas receptions'
    So speaks someone whose knowledge of diplomatic receptions is gleaned from Ferrero Rochet adverts. The reality is a lot less glamorous.
    Based on my experience of the FCO and DFID my only hope is that this is a reverse takeover. DFID is a genuinely world beating organisation, the FCO... not so much.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Well, it's not a vaccine yet, but we should still empathize with the sadness one culture warrior will be feeling today:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/coronavirus-vaccine_uk_5ea067f2c5b6b2e5b83ba372
This discussion has been closed.