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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Starmer tells Boris to “get a grip” as they prepare for the first PMQs since the Cummings lockdown revelations
At noon in the Commons LAB leader Keir Starmer will face Johnson in the first PMQs since the story about the Cummings lockdown trip to Durham broke. This could be quite tricky for Johnson who has struggled when faced with the former DPP now Leader of the Opposition.
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First0
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Has anyone even said anything about the new normal for hospitals, how the hell we treat the ill in the next 18 months and how we conclude ongoing treatments. There are so many things requiring an intelligent easing, with so much more detail focus than was needed for lockdown. Cyclefree and Fishing's calls for a start.
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Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.0
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Fourth0
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That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...2
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With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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They need to segregate hospitals into Covid and non-Covid hospitals, with everyone in the latter (patients and staff) being tested daily and moved quickly if infected.Pro_Rata said:Has anyone even said anything about the new normal for hospitals, how the hell we treat the ill in the next 18 months and how we conclude ongoing treatments. There are so many things requiring an intelligent easing, with so much more detail focus than was needed for lockdown. Cyclefree and Fishing's calls for a start.
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Dream on.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
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Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
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Using the phrase 'winging it' might be a good jujutsu move - turning your opponent's strength into a vulnerability. Boris's shambolic, devil-may-care mien was hitherto seen as most of his charm.0
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Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
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I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist, agreed with the interviewer on Sveriges Radio that too many people had died in the country, which currently has the highest per capita death rate in the world.
“If we would encounter the same disease, with exactly what we know about it today, I think we would land midway between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world did,” Mr Tegnell said in the interview broadcast on Wednesday morning.
Mr Tegnell’s admission is striking as for months he has criticised other countries’ lockdowns and insisted that Sweden’s approach was more sustainable despite heavy international scrutiny of its stubbornly high death toll.
The public mood in Sweden appears to have shifted somewhat since neighbouring Norway and Denmark last week opened their borders to each other but not their close neighbour.
Sweden has a per capita death rate that is currently the highest in the world and has recorded 10 times the deaths relative to its population size than Norway.
Mr Tegnell said in the interview: “There is quite obviously a potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden. It would be good to know exactly what to close down to better prevent the spread of the virus.”
https://twitter.com/albertonardelli/status/1268058437516177408?s=210 -
Given the chaos the government is in, Sir Keir will be spoilt for choice. Last week I thought he got bogged down in nit-picking detail about minor inconsistencies in government documents. His comments in the Guardian, that Mike quotes, are much better aimed at the big picture of government chaos and incompetence.0
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On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.0 -
Yes. Boris "winging it" is a charge that no one else has ever made. No one. Ever.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
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Starmer is merely stating the obvious. Johnson is clearly winging it - it's what he has always done. He is a lazy man, with no interest in details and an over-inflated sense of self. There is absolutely no harm in calling it out.Stark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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(FPT)
It also glosses over the point that it was perfectly possible to have arrived at different conclusions from the scientific evidence much earlier.CarlottaVance said:
That's all very good - but why, in mid-March, when the rest of the planet was imposing quarantines and travel bans were the governmentS of the UK countrieS not asking SAGE "why them and not us"? ....Big_G_NorthWales said:For those piling into HMG re the 14 day flight quarantine and that it is too late these minutes are from the first Sage meeting of the 22nd January
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1268078585648238592?s=09
In this story about how Australia responded (much more proactively and effectively) to the pandemic, it specifically references their having had access to the Imperial modelling:
https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/tough-decisions-tears-and-agility-behind-australia-s-covid-19-success-20200529-p54xp1
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https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.0 -
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.0 -
Can you imagine if a British politician or scientist said something like that? I was wondering the other day how different things would be if across the world the deaths from COVID-19 were half of what we think they have been. Would the reaction be any different? I think not. I'm not sure what our media would find "acceptable". But someone saying too many people had died would have been pounced upon: "one death is too many" etc.TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died.0 -
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.1 -
Boris absence and the Cummings saga has annoyed me intensely and Boris does not enjoy my support anymore.DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
However, I still want HMG to succeed and I remain a conservative party member0 -
So interestingly I have an endoscopy appointment next Thursday, but I have to have a COVID-19 swab done on the Tuesday, and then my entire household has to self-isolate until after my appointment on Thursday.0
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Insightful comment as ever.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.1 -
Can’t you take another day off it was quite pleasant yesterday without your continual Puerile Tory rampingBluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.2 -
I am not sure about the polls just now and while the last one was better for HMG the trend has been dreadfulBluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.0 -
Mr. Gate, hope it goes well.
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Maybe, but there's too many of them in parliament and not enough scientists for example.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.3 -
You mean something along these lines ?tlg86 said:
Can you imagine if a British politician or scientist said something like that? I was wondering the other day how different things would be if across the world the deaths from COVID-19 were half of what we think they have been. Would the reaction be any different? I think not. I'm not sure what our media would find "acceptable". But someone saying too many people had died would have been pounced upon: "one death is too many" etc.TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-contact-tracing-mistake-jeremy-farrar-welcome-trust-sage-a9516066.html
...A leading British scientist who sits on the panel advising the government on coronavirus has admitted the UK made a mistake in dropping its test, track and trace policy in March.
Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust and member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, made the comment in an interview on the BBC's Newsnight on Thursday evening.
Asked whether the government had made a mistake by choosing to stop the policy, he replied: “I think in retrospect it was, yes.”
“We must learn the lessons of why this epidemic got out of control in February and March. And we must not allow that mistake to be happening in May, June and July.”...
Though you're right I think in not being able to come up with an example of one who has said explicitly that "too many have died".1 -
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.
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It is because of these Covid procedures that hospitals will remain empty until a vaccine is found.Gallowgate said:So interestingly I have an endoscopy appointment next Thursday, but I have to have a COVID-19 swab done on the Tuesday, and then my entire household has to self-isolate until after my appointment on Thursday.
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It's an open goal and the timing is right. Starmer has put in the yards for 'calm and constructive', now is the time to plant the seeds of the big political narrative - that the shambolic approach of Boris Johnson and his government to Covid-19 cost many lives and wrecked the economy and public finances. Start building this case now in the expectation that it will (in due course) contain sufficient demonstrable truth to stick. And if it does, of course, that is PM Starmer.Stark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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Most scientists would prefer to actually do science or make lots of money in industry than become MPslogical_song said:
Maybe, but there's too many of them in parliament and not enough scientists for example.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.0 -
Not so sure you have the right to attempt to silence a poster, no matter how much you disagreenichomar said:
Can’t you take another day off it was quite pleasant yesterday without your continual Puerile Tory rampingBluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.0 -
Funnily enough, it was a lawyer politician that made me realise I no longer supported Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.0 -
Like a Margaret Roberts who worked in food research for J. Lyons & Co?HYUFD said:
Most scientists would prefer to actually do science or make lots of money in industry than become MPslogical_song said:
Maybe, but there's too many of them in parliament and not enough scientists for example.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.0 -
I give you US Attorney General Barr....TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.0 -
Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.0 -
Gallowgate said:
Insightful comment as ever.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
Why, thank you. Here's another: if Starmer can't land a decisive blow today after the entire Blob has assaulted the Government non-stop for the better part of two weeks, then he may never be able to do so.
I wonder if he's feeling the pressure...
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She was one of the few exceptions and of course she switched to law beforehand and married a man who had made lots of money in industryCarnyx said:
Like a Margaret Roberts who worked in food research for J. Lyons & Co?HYUFD said:
Most scientists would prefer to actually do science or make lots of money in industry than become MPslogical_song said:
Maybe, but there's too many of them in parliament and not enough scientists for example.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.0 -
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind people showing sensitivity, but I quite like the bluntness of someone saying it as it is.Nigelb said:
You mean something along these lines ?tlg86 said:
Can you imagine if a British politician or scientist said something like that? I was wondering the other day how different things would be if across the world the deaths from COVID-19 were half of what we think they have been. Would the reaction be any different? I think not. I'm not sure what our media would find "acceptable". But someone saying too many people had died would have been pounced upon: "one death is too many" etc.TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-contact-tracing-mistake-jeremy-farrar-welcome-trust-sage-a9516066.html
...A leading British scientist who sits on the panel advising the government on coronavirus has admitted the UK made a mistake in dropping its test, track and trace policy in March.
Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust and member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, made the comment in an interview on the BBC's Newsnight on Thursday evening.
Asked whether the government had made a mistake by choosing to stop the policy, he replied: “I think in retrospect it was, yes.”
“We must learn the lessons of why this epidemic got out of control in February and March. And we must not allow that mistake to be happening in May, June and July.”...
Though you're right I think in not being able to come up with an example of one who has said explicitly that "too many have died".0 -
South Korea mandates QR codes to log customers after nightclub coronavirus outbreak
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-southkorea-qr-code/south-korea-mandates-qr-codes-to-log-customers-after-nightclub-coronavirus-outbreak-idUKKBN239075
...The decision to mandate QR codes to register visitors’ identities came after authorities struggled to trace people who had visited a number of nightclubs and bars at the centre of a virus outbreak last month after much of the information on handwritten visitor logs was found to be false or incomplete.
Starting June 10, visitors to nightclubs, bars, karaoke clubs, daytime discos, indoor gyms that hold group exercises, and indoor standing concert halls, will be required to use any of a number of commercially available apps to generate a one-time, personalized QR code that can be scanned at the door.
Local governments may also designate other high-risk facilities such as libraries, hospitals, restaurants or churches.
The person’s information will be logged in a database kept by the Social Security Information Service for four weeks, before it is automatically deleted, according to South Korea’s Ministry of Health and Welfare....0 -
Why do you hate people born in Edinburgh?Theuniondivvie said:
Funnily enough, it was a lawyer politician that made me realise I no longer supported Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.
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Look at the leader ratings. If they stay where they are (and the recent shifts may reverse) then the Tory lead is built on sand. SKS is less toxic than his party - and that will take time to improve - but the Corbyn free ride is well and truly over.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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American politics is ghastly.Nigelb said:
I give you US Attorney General Barr....TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.
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Your partisanship is utterly boring.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
Even the PB Tories aren't particularly partisan these days.
You and your adjacent arse-cheek the Correct Horse takes sycophancy to a whole new level of embarrassing.0 -
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on0 -
More likely to be the change in the weatherPeter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.1 -
Probably because many PB Tories no longer post because it has become a bit of a loony left echo chamber.Anabobazina said:
Your partisanship is utterly boring.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
Even the PB Tories aren't particularly partisan these days.0 -
I think Corbyn's achievements are underrated, he got 40% in the 2017GE. Starmer would be delighted to get that at the 2024GECarlottaVance said:
Look at the leader ratings. If they stay where they are (and the recent shifts may reverse) then the Tory lead is built on sand. SKS is less toxic than his party - and that will take time to improve - but the Corbyn free ride is well and truly over.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
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Good luck with it and hope it all goes well.Gallowgate said:
Insightful comment as ever.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.1 -
The key will be once we likely go to WTO terms Brexit next year.CarlottaVance said:
Look at the leader ratings. If they stay where they are (and the recent shifts may reverse) then the Tory lead is built on sand. SKS is less toxic than his party - and that will take time to improve - but the Corbyn free ride is well and truly over.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
To become PM Starmer really needs to see Remainers or soft Brexit, pro single market Leavers who voted Tory to keep Corbyn out last year come over to him or at least shift to the LDs from that point0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
Given the chaos the government is in, Sir Keir will be spoilt for choice. Last week I thought he got bogged down in nit-picking detail about minor inconsistencies in government documents. His comments in the Guardian, that Mike quotes, are much better aimed at the big picture of government chaos and incompetence.
Could you ever see yourself voting for Sir Keir, Richard, if he appointed (say) Miss Reeves as ShadChan?0 -
Quite right.SouthamObserver said:
Starmer is merely stating the obvious. Johnson is clearly winging it - it's what he has always done. He is a lazy man, with no interest in details and an over-inflated sense of self. There is absolutely no harm in calling it out.Stark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
A surprising feature on PB is how many of the rampant government apologists don't understand that it is the LOTO's role to oppose, especially when there is plenty to call out.0 -
and our 'Attorney General' Suella Braverman.Nigelb said:
I give you US Attorney General Barr....TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.0 -
LOLbrokenwheel said:
Probably because many PB Tories no longer post because it has become a bit of a loony left echo chamber.Anabobazina said:
Your partisanship is utterly boring.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
Even the PB Tories aren't particularly partisan these days.1 -
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.3 -
It all started going downhill after Sir Sean.TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you hate people born in Edinburgh?Theuniondivvie said:
Funnily enough, it was a lawyer politician that made me realise I no longer supported Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.
I've learned something new today. After checking Wiki to make ABSOLUTELY sure SSC was born in Auld Reekie, I discover he has a brother, Neil, also an actor. You can see the family resemblance.
https://tinyurl.com/yd8qlv8l0 -
Presumably, having set it up last time, Starmer will ask the PM to confirm that a “world beating” test and trace system was indeed up and running on June 1st as committed to (twice) by the PM in this house just two weeks ago0
-
Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.1 -
That might be enough on the back of a small LD revival.NerysHughes said:
I think Corbyn's achievements are underrated, he got 40% in the 2017GE. Starmer would be delighted to get that at the 2024GECarlottaVance said:
Look at the leader ratings. If they stay where they are (and the recent shifts may reverse) then the Tory lead is built on sand. SKS is less toxic than his party - and that will take time to improve - but the Corbyn free ride is well and truly over.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
0 -
Yes. I think thats probably true. As an confirmed non-Labourite, I'm pretty happy we have an opposition leader who doesn't assume the West is bad at every opportunity.Anabobazina said:Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.3 -
How do you know it's Mr Blair? Could just as well be Mr Smith (b. Dalmally).TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you hate people born in Edinburgh?Theuniondivvie said:
Funnily enough, it was a lawyer politician that made me realise I no longer supported Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.0 -
Absolutely, the publics capability to deal with numbers and statistics when emotions are involved is very low.tlg86 said:
Can you imagine if a British politician or scientist said something like that? I was wondering the other day how different things would be if across the world the deaths from COVID-19 were half of what we think they have been. Would the reaction be any different? I think not. I'm not sure what our media would find "acceptable". But someone saying too many people had died would have been pounced upon: "one death is too many" etc.TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died.
As an example, there is a trade off between numbers of deaths and having been allowed out of our homes in April and May for exercise. If you put it direct to the public in a one line opinion poll, I wouldnt be surprised if the majority wouldnt trade a single death for that benefit, which is clearly the wrong answer.0 -
Not sure it's above walking pace just yet...Rexel56 said:Presumably, having set it up last time, Starmer will ask the PM to confirm that a “world beating” test and trace system was indeed up and running on June 1st as committed to (twice) by the PM in this house just two weeks ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52904433
...Anthony Costello, a professor of Global Health at UCL and former WHO director, told Victoria Derbyshire the Test and Trace system was unlikely to be picking up more than 30% of coronavirus cases and may be missing at least two-thirds of contacts.
"That's why your nurse has not had any calls. It is not fit for purpose yet. The worrying thing is can it ever be fit for purpose? Why was it set up like this? You need speed and you need trust," he said.
He added that the system should instead revolve around local GPs and that the current system risked giving people a false sense of security.
The NHS Test and Trace scheme in England is intended to map a person's networks and close contacts once they have received a positive coronavirus diagnosis.
It is being run in part by the private outsourcing company Serco and is led by the chair of NHS Improvement and former TalkTalk chief executive Baroness Dido Harding....
0 -
Perhaps, if the Conservatives remain in ideological la-la land. I always vote on the basis of the best available, which for the nearly 50 years I've been voting has been the Conservatives, except for last year. It's certainly very possible that Labour under Starmer will be the best available next time.Anabobazina said:Richard_Nabavi said:Given the chaos the government is in, Sir Keir will be spoilt for choice. Last week I thought he got bogged down in nit-picking detail about minor inconsistencies in government documents. His comments in the Guardian, that Mike quotes, are much better aimed at the big picture of government chaos and incompetence.
Could you ever see yourself voting for Sir Keir, Richard, if he appointed (say) Miss Reeves as ShadChan?1 -
It makes sense but would it have a negative effect on down-league attendances? That's why the 3pm Saturday blackout was introduced in the first place.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
Perhaps a better model would be to show just one game live at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon?0 -
Indeed.HYUFD said:
The key will be once we likely go to WTO terms Brexit next year.CarlottaVance said:
Look at the leader ratings. If they stay where they are (and the recent shifts may reverse) then the Tory lead is built on sand. SKS is less toxic than his party - and that will take time to improve - but the Corbyn free ride is well and truly over.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
To become PM Starmer really needs to see Remainers or soft Brexit, pro single market Leavers who voted Tory to keep Corbyn out last year come over to him or at least shift to the LDs from that point1 -
A certain Mr Cummings seems to be the only name mentioned, I cant think why.Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on0 -
Those pesky left wing Cameroons!brokenwheel said:
Probably because many PB Tories no longer post because it has become a bit of a loony left echo chamber.Anabobazina said:
Your partisanship is utterly boring.BluestBlue said:
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...DougSeal said:
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantineStark_Dawning said:Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
Even the PB Tories aren't particularly partisan these days.0 -
What Ferguson says is slightly more nuanced than the headline, but I'd lost respect for him if he didn't make the comments he has made - Sweden is interesting, not because it was the right thing to do (that depends on how acceptable higher deaths are compared to greater freedoms) but because the more minimal restrictions, largely self imposed, seem to have got R to ~1. Adopting similar largely voluntary changes early on here might (emphasis onmight) have averted many deaths and made the full lockdown unnecessary, although I suspect a high level of deaths was necessary, both there and here, to make people change behaviours in the ways needed.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Offtopic, but I discovered something useful, Telegraph paywall is purely client side (haven't looked into whether javascript, css or combination, but viewing page source reveals the full article text). I'd always assumed the server only provided the short introduction, but I was wrong.2 -
How does that solves the 3pm blackout issue. If you don't support any particular team you may just sit at home and watch that match rather than going to see your local national league team play badly and loss.Anabobazina said:
It makes sense but would it have a negative effect on down-league attendances? That's why the 3pm Saturday blackout was introduced in the first place.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
Perhaps a better model would be to show just one game live at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon?0 -
Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.Selebian said:
What Ferguson says is slightly more nuanced than the headline, but I'd lost respect for him if he didn't make the comments he has made - Sweden is interesting, not because it was the right thing to do (that depends on how acceptable higher deaths are compared to greater freedoms) but because the more minimal restrictions, largely self imposed, seem to have got R to ~1. Adopting similar largely voluntary changes early on here might (emphasis onmight) have averted many deaths and made the full lockdown unnecessary, although I suspect a high level of deaths was necessary, both there and here, to make people change behaviours in the ways needed.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Offtopic, but I discovered something useful, Telegraph paywall is purely client side (haven't looked into whether javascript, css or combination, but viewing page source reveals the full article text). I'd always assumed the server only provided the short introduction, but I was wrong.0 -
Time for Boris' weekly duffing up.0
-
It will have been barely noticed by Joe Public but the appointment of David Evans as General Secretary is a coup for Sir Keir. Evans is from the sensible right of the party and his ascension to the throne will lead to the eventual implosion of the nutters from the far left.Mortimer said:
Yes. I think thats probably true. As an confirmed non-Labourite, I'm pretty happy we have an opposition leader who doesn't assume the West is bad at every opportunity.Anabobazina said:Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.3 -
That's certainly a no-brainer if there's no lower leagues in play.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
It's a more difficult call when the lower leagues are going to be absolutely desperate to get a crowd in, as will happen next season.
Eventually it will happen, as you say the only people watching live Prem League in the UK at 3pm are the TV pirates - when the rest of the world is watching any match they choose. The internet can't be held back indefinitely.0 -
Or dont play prem games at 3pm? A full weekend schedule could be:Anabobazina said:
It makes sense but would it have a negative effect on down-league attendances? That's why the 3pm Saturday blackout was introduced in the first place.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
Perhaps a better model would be to show just one game live at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon?
Fri 19.45
Sat 12.30
Sat 17.30
Sat 19.30
Sun 12.00
Sun 14.00
Sun 16.00
Sun 18.00
Sun 20.00
Mon 20.003 -
I've never bought into that argument. Fans that travel to a 3pm kick off are probably missing some or all of the 12:30 and 5pm kick offs that are televised. Fans want to support their own clubs not just other people's clubs.Anabobazina said:
It makes sense but would it have a negative effect on down-league attendances? That's why the 3pm Saturday blackout was introduced in the first place.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
Perhaps a better model would be to show just one game live at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon?
Besides that ship has already sailed now that it is insanely easy to illegally stream games online and that genie is not going back into its bottle.0 -
Fair pointeek said:
How does that solves the 3pm blackout issue. If you don't support any particular team you may just sit at home and watch that match rather than going to see your local national league team play badly and loss.Anabobazina said:
It makes sense but would it have a negative effect on down-league attendances? That's why the 3pm Saturday blackout was introduced in the first place.Philip_Thompson said:
Moving forwards I hope the Premier League realise they can and should televise all games. It's ridiculous that in most of the world you can legally watch all Premier League games but in the UK you can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe the return of sport, even behind closed doors, televising all premier games, horse racing, and the go ahead for two races at Silverstone will be very popularOllyT said:
Not much danger of overreaching on the subject of Boris getting his finger out and doing some hard graft.BluestBlue said:That's right, Keir, go on and overreach yourself. You know you want to...
It's equally ridiculous that people who pay a fortune for live sport get a fraction of games televised while people that steam it online get them all.
Completely perverse and I hope this is a watershed moment.
Perhaps a better model would be to show just one game live at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon?0 -
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/1268110440422391808Nigelb said:Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.
0 -
The expulsions have already started. It's great to see.Anabobazina said:
It will have been barely noticed by Joe Public but the appointment of David Evans as General Secretary is a coup for Sir Keir. Evans is from the sensible right of the party and his ascension to the throne will lead to the eventual implosion of the nutters from the far left.Mortimer said:
Yes. I think thats probably true. As an confirmed non-Labourite, I'm pretty happy we have an opposition leader who doesn't assume the West is bad at every opportunity.Anabobazina said:Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.
1 -
Surgisphere, whose employees appear to include a sci-fi writer and adult content model, provided database behind Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine hydroxychloroquine studies
The World Health Organization and a number of national governments have changed their Covid-19 policies and treatments on the basis of flawed data from a little-known US healthcare analytics company, also calling into question the integrity of key studies published in some of the world’s most prestigious medical journals.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine0 -
Oh, the Telegraph paywall is partly javascript now - they must have changed it around xmas/new year as since then I have had full access without subscribing. I use firefox with ublock origin & umatrix.Selebian said:
What Ferguson says is slightly more nuanced than the headline, but I'd lost respect for him if he didn't make the comments he has made - Sweden is interesting, not because it was the right thing to do (that depends on how acceptable higher deaths are compared to greater freedoms) but because the more minimal restrictions, largely self imposed, seem to have got R to ~1. Adopting similar largely voluntary changes early on here might (emphasis onmight) have averted many deaths and made the full lockdown unnecessary, although I suspect a high level of deaths was necessary, both there and here, to make people change behaviours in the ways needed.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Offtopic, but I discovered something useful, Telegraph paywall is purely client side (haven't looked into whether javascript, css or combination, but viewing page source reveals the full article text). I'd always assumed the server only provided the short introduction, but I was wrong.0 -
FFS!
Governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company
Surgisphere, whose employees appear to include a sci-fi writer and adult content model, provided database behind Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine hydroxychloroquine studies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
Yes, my sister, who currently lives in Texas, mentioned him. A US news channel actually ran a piece about Sir Keir when he bested Boris at some PMQs or other.Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
Perhaps, if the Conservatives remain in ideological la-la land. I always vote on the basis of the best available, which for the nearly 50 years I've been voting has been the Conservatives, except for last year. It's certainly very possible that Labour under Starmer will be the best available next time.Anabobazina said:Richard_Nabavi said:Given the chaos the government is in, Sir Keir will be spoilt for choice. Last week I thought he got bogged down in nit-picking detail about minor inconsistencies in government documents. His comments in the Guardian, that Mike quotes, are much better aimed at the big picture of government chaos and incompetence.
Could you ever see yourself voting for Sir Keir, Richard, if he appointed (say) Miss Reeves as ShadChan?
Fair enough – thanks for the reply.0 -
If you're quick with the stop and refresh buttons, its trivial to get the full text. Very different to the Times, which only ever loads the first few words on the article if not logged in.megalomaniacs4u said:
Oh, the Telegraph paywall is partly javascript now - they must have changed it around xmas/new year as since then I have had full access without subscribing. I use firefox with ublock origin & umatrix.Selebian said:
What Ferguson says is slightly more nuanced than the headline, but I'd lost respect for him if he didn't make the comments he has made - Sweden is interesting, not because it was the right thing to do (that depends on how acceptable higher deaths are compared to greater freedoms) but because the more minimal restrictions, largely self imposed, seem to have got R to ~1. Adopting similar largely voluntary changes early on here might (emphasis onmight) have averted many deaths and made the full lockdown unnecessary, although I suspect a high level of deaths was necessary, both there and here, to make people change behaviours in the ways needed.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Offtopic, but I discovered something useful, Telegraph paywall is purely client side (haven't looked into whether javascript, css or combination, but viewing page source reveals the full article text). I'd always assumed the server only provided the short introduction, but I was wrong.0 -
Are outcomes purely deaths? What about the psychological benefits of not having been restricted from outdoors for two months? Or the economic benefits of the furlough scheme?Nigelb said:
Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.Selebian said:
What Ferguson says is slightly more nuanced than the headline, but I'd lost respect for him if he didn't make the comments he has made - Sweden is interesting, not because it was the right thing to do (that depends on how acceptable higher deaths are compared to greater freedoms) but because the more minimal restrictions, largely self imposed, seem to have got R to ~1. Adopting similar largely voluntary changes early on here might (emphasis onmight) have averted many deaths and made the full lockdown unnecessary, although I suspect a high level of deaths was necessary, both there and here, to make people change behaviours in the ways needed.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1268122584681496577TheScreamingEagles said:I assume we’ve discussed this?
Architect of Sweden’s no-lockdown policy admits too many have died
The architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown policy has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Offtopic, but I discovered something useful, Telegraph paywall is purely client side (haven't looked into whether javascript, css or combination, but viewing page source reveals the full article text). I'd always assumed the server only provided the short introduction, but I was wrong.
I am not convinced we have done worse than Italy, France or Spain - we have done worse than Germany. Germany should have been expected to have done the best of those 5 nations but the gap is much bigger than expectations.0 -
Lancet and dodgy studies...now where have we heard that one before...TheScreamingEagles said:FFS!
Governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company
Surgisphere, whose employees appear to include a sci-fi writer and adult content model, provided database behind Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine hydroxychloroquine studies
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other6 -
First time I ever liked a post liked by Sandpit. Hail the common ground!logical_song said:
Maybe, but there's too many of them in parliament and not enough scientists for example.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.2 -
Yeah, me!SouthamObserver said:
The expulsions have already started. It's great to see.Anabobazina said:
It will have been barely noticed by Joe Public but the appointment of David Evans as General Secretary is a coup for Sir Keir. Evans is from the sensible right of the party and his ascension to the throne will lead to the eventual implosion of the nutters from the far left.Mortimer said:
Yes. I think thats probably true. As an confirmed non-Labourite, I'm pretty happy we have an opposition leader who doesn't assume the West is bad at every opportunity.Anabobazina said:Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.0 -
Down with this racist virus.1
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Throw out the Liberal Trots!RochdalePioneers said:
Yeah, me!SouthamObserver said:
The expulsions have already started. It's great to see.Anabobazina said:
It will have been barely noticed by Joe Public but the appointment of David Evans as General Secretary is a coup for Sir Keir. Evans is from the sensible right of the party and his ascension to the throne will lead to the eventual implosion of the nutters from the far left.Mortimer said:
Yes. I think thats probably true. As an confirmed non-Labourite, I'm pretty happy we have an opposition leader who doesn't assume the West is bad at every opportunity.Anabobazina said:Mortimer said:
Has ANYONE heard any non politics wonk even mention Starmer in the past month? Let alone his shad cab.Peter_the_Punter said:Returning to London for the first time in over a week I note a slight change in mood. The reckless gaiety of the partying hordes on Hampstead Heath has given way to a more subdued and cautious atmosphere.
I suspect Londoners are realising we're not quite out of this yet. Starmer's line signals he's in tune with this.
Might watch PMQs for once.
Labour are just not breaking through the narrative. I'm beginning to think the comments on here about KS missing open goals are bang on
That's probably fair comment, but Sir Keir first has to sort out the abject mess in the party, to professionalise it and make it ready for government.
That will take a year – at least.
If you were were a Labourite I dare say you'd be fairly content with that for now – Corbyn gone and the idiots being slowly unpicked from the party machine.
0 -
That's wrong isn't it? The 324 did not all die yesterday at all...Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/1268110440422391808Nigelb said:Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.
1 -
Ah, core vote strategy from Keir.1
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Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/1268110440422391808Nigelb said:Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.
Weirdly 324 people were talking about this on Twitter!0 -
Probably about 100 in hospitals.Anabobazina said:
That's wrong isn't it? The 324 did not all die yesterday at all...Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/1268110440422391808Nigelb said:Trying to decide whether we or Sweden are better seems a bit futile, considering both of us have among the worst outcomes in Europe.
1 -
Starmer wins this opening salvo hands down0
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Enjoy the magnificence...Theuniondivvie said:
It all started going downhill after Sir Sean.TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you hate people born in Edinburgh?Theuniondivvie said:
Funnily enough, it was a lawyer politician that made me realise I no longer supported Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
The two politicians that made me realise I was a conservative were both lawyers.Nigelb said:
Some.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic lawyers are awesome.
Lawyer politicians are the best.
Though I'll grant that Lincoln, widely acknowledged as the greatest US President, was indeed a lawyer.
Thatcher and Ken Clarke.
I've learned something new today. After checking Wiki to make ABSOLUTELY sure SSC was born in Auld Reekie, I discover he has a brother, Neil, also an actor. You can see the family resemblance.
https://tinyurl.com/yd8qlv8l
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqsgzAyfAEo1
