No he wasn't!! He's just forensic and cool. There are only two take-aways from that PMQ's. 1. The letter (bad for Johnson) and 2. the appearance and manner of Johnson (bad for Johnson).
You're missing the biggest one - 24 hour test turn around be end of month - thats one heck of a rod for PHE (and the government)'s backs.
Good. Look at what a shambles PHE were making of the testing, until Hancock made a public pledge of 100k tests in April and refused to back down.
Indeed.
There isn't a point to test and trace if the testing takes five days to turn around. 90% within 48 hours currently apparently but it makes sense to push now for 24 hours.
Also makes more sense to get the testing done quicker than promise eg 300,000 tests or anything like that as the next step.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
"they voted for Brexit"
Yes, why did they vote for Brexit
"because they want Brexit. So we have to give them Brexit"
Yes but what were they hoping for out of Brexit
"brexit"
To be fair, on an individual basis most people could give the reasons they supported Brexit. The problem has always been that collectively no single flavour Brexit had more than 25-30% public support. That makes it unlikely the Brexit coalition can survive the reality of Brexit, as whatever choices are made, even if implemented perfectly, a significant proportion will feel misled.
Thats the point i was making. People up here voted for something better. Its hard to put your finger on exactly why things are bad, but they *are* bad. Brexit was the ultimate silver bullet fuck you. Vote for change then things get better. People aren't going to accept things getting worse.
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
Watching CNN vs Fox, it is a different world.
CNN started segments by overwhelmingly peaceful, but right wing white supremacists / nationalists pretending to be other groups involved in the violence, oh and probably some left wing groups.
Fox was ANTIFA, ANTIFA, ANTIFA.
White Supremacists driving the violence is up there with Birtherism.
It's been very weird to watch, totally biased by everyone.
CNN had one report about about peaceful black protests and white supremacists stoking trouble, accompanied by images of black men looting a Nike store for trainers and fighting with police.
The truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle, there's a lot of people peacefully protesting the death in custody, alongside a number of different bunches of idiots looking for trouble. The total bias of the reports is what is noticeable though, the words and pictures just don't match up. I'm not seeing groups of white men in flags and MAGA hats anywhere.
There's also a lot of reports of media being attacked by police, I get a feeling that there's way more to some of those stories too.
Trying to find any reporting close to impartial is almost impossible, although there are a few independent journalists around trying to make sense of it all - to a Youtube audience in the tens of thousands.
I don't think it takes a genius to work out that criminals are exploiting the stretched police to loot shops.
And that the hard left anti-capitalist violent mobs have been about for ages, especially in places like Seattle and Portland. We have gone from anti-WTO at end of 90s, to Occupy in 2000s, and now morphed in to anti-fascists / anti-capitalist / defund the police mob.
With Trump and his emboldened of (until him the more hidden white supremacists movements), it has allowed them to get uncritical coverage from lots of media outlets.
And then in the middle of this you have protests, which we know when you get a big crowd it really doesn't take much for it to kick off. It can be a total misunderstanding and within a few minutes it has escalated e.g. that truck drive on the interstate could easily have been killed by the mob, because it looked to everybody like it was an attempted Charlottesville repeat, when it appears now by all reports it wasn't.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
You have a point, but simply 'Getting Brexit Done' and avoiding Corbyn in No 10 must have been appealing. The reality of a WTO exit, which a lot of influential Tories actually want, will hit people economically and the Tories politically but they may try to blame Covid19.
No he wasn't!! He's just forensic and cool. There are only two take-aways from that PMQ's. 1. The letter (bad for Johnson) and 2. the appearance and manner of Johnson (bad for Johnson).
You're missing the biggest one - 24 hour test turn around be end of month - thats one heck of a rod for PHE (and the government)'s backs.
Good. Look at what a shambles PHE were making of the testing, until Hancock made a public pledge of 100k tests in April and refused to back down.
Indeed.
There isn't a point to test and trace if the testing takes five days to turn around. 90% within 48 hours currently apparently but it makes sense to push now for 24 hours.
Also makes more sense to get the testing done quicker than promise eg 300,000 tests or anything like that as the next step.
It is already too late to claim this as any form of success, let alone aiming to achieve it by July.
One eyebrow raising economic report from the US today came in the form of the ADP jobs report for May which showed the US shed not far short of three million jobs in May. That looks bad except when you look at what was expected, which was nine million jobs lost.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Exactly, I voted Remain but Leave voters knew the risks of Brexit or should have but voted for it anyway
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
Watching CNN vs Fox, it is a different world.
CNN started segments by overwhelmingly peaceful, but right wing white supremacists / nationalists pretending to be other groups involved in the violence, oh and probably some left wing groups.
Fox was ANTIFA, ANTIFA, ANTIFA.
White Supremacists driving the violence is up there with Birtherism.
Neither of them are news organizations any more. In fact I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anything as neutral as the BBC over there.
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Well my point was that the “City of Sunderland” is not the only part of the North East affected by Nissan. Berwick upon Tweed, Hexham, Blyth Valley, North West Durham, Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are all Tory seats that a likely to be home to Nissan workers, its supply chain, or its auxiliary services.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Don't forget the the Poll Tax was a Tory manifesto commitment (the 'flag-ship' policy in fact). That didn't stop everyone going absolutely ape when they had to suffer the consequences, nor did it deflect any political damage from Maggie.
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
"You voted to make yourself unemployed. Can I count on your support again"?
yeah, that'll work
Still better than coming 3rd behind the Brexit Party if the transition period is extended indefinitely
Are you suggesting a Nigel Farage Premiership with Starmer still LOTO?
I am suggesting never mind possibly losing the next general election, if the Tories extend indefinitely they face a Canada 1993 style wipe out at the next general election and being overtaken by the Brexit Party as the Reform Party overtook the Canadian Tories then
Ending Free Movement is the thing. So long as they do that as promised on 1st Jan 2021 Brexit will be "Done" as regards most Leavers - particularly the Red Wallers to whom they owe their landslide majority. Those voters would not know a Single Market or a Customs Union if they tripped over one.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Don't forget the the Poll Tax was a Tory manifesto commitment (the 'flag-ship' policy in fact). That didn't stop everyone going absolutely ape when they had to suffer the consequences, nor did it deflect any political damage from Maggie.
Far fewer Tory voters supported the poll tax than now support WTO terms Brexit however.
It would take the majority of Tory voters shifting to back staying in the single market for the party to change its policy on it
The city of Ferguson, Missouri - where an unarmed black teen was killed by a white policeman in 2014, sparking nationwide protests - has elected its first black mayor.
Ella Jones also becomes the first woman to serve in the position after the vote on Tuesday night, according to US media.
The city became the centre of nationwide protests after 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot dead. His body lay in the street for four hours before it was removed.
A grand jury decided not to prosecute the police officer who fired the fatal shots.
----
This kind of reporting worries me. It is factually correct, but there is serious omission. It can easily be read by those looking for injustice that the authorities let the police off, and at these heighten times, careful and complete reporting is required.
The reality is that this was not a a case of George Floyd. Michael Brown committed a crime, when a police officer attempt to arrest him, he assaulted the officer and tried to grab the officers gun and was shot.
There were many African American witnesses to this incident who backed up the series of events. And absolutely no evidence that the officer did anything wrong.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
What, exactly, are they protesting about? its not like the guy is going to walk. There's no cover-up or soft pedalling here.
They are going to throw to book at him in a high profile trial and much covered trial, and justice will be seen to be done. As it should be.
This will surely show that the strongest possible deterrent against this type of behaviour is already in place.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
The city of Ferguson, Missouri - where an unarmed black teen was killed by a white policeman in 2014, sparking nationwide protests - has elected its first black mayor.
Ella Jones also becomes the first woman to serve in the position after the vote on Tuesday night, according to US media.
The city became the centre of nationwide protests after 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot dead. His body lay in the street for four hours before it was removed.
A grand jury decided not to prosecute the police officer who fired the fatal shots.
----
This kind of reporting worries me. It is factually correct, but there is serious omission. It can easily be read by those looking for injustice that the authorities let the police off.
The reality is that this was not a a case of Floyd George. A man committed a crime, when a police officer attempt to arrest him, he assaulted the officer and tried to grab the officers gun and was shot.
There were many African American witnesses to this incident who backed up the series of events. And absolutely no evidence that the officer did anything wrong.
You need to rephrase that second paragraph, which man committed a crime, Floyd George or Michael Brown?
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
That's the advice, but is there a ban?
Don't think I said there was did I. Nope I definitely didn't.
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
The city of Ferguson, Missouri - where an unarmed black teen was killed by a white policeman in 2014, sparking nationwide protests - has elected its first black mayor.
Ella Jones also becomes the first woman to serve in the position after the vote on Tuesday night, according to US media.
The city became the centre of nationwide protests after 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot dead. His body lay in the street for four hours before it was removed.
A grand jury decided not to prosecute the police officer who fired the fatal shots.
----
This kind of reporting worries me. It is factually correct, but there is serious omission. It can easily be read by those looking for injustice that the authorities let the police off.
The reality is that this was not a a case of Floyd George. A man committed a crime, when a police officer attempt to arrest him, he assaulted the officer and tried to grab the officers gun and was shot.
There were many African American witnesses to this incident who backed up the series of events. And absolutely no evidence that the officer did anything wrong.
You need to rephrase that second paragraph, which man committed a crime, Floyd George or Michael Brown?
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
"You voted to make yourself unemployed. Can I count on your support again"?
yeah, that'll work
Still better than coming 3rd behind the Brexit Party if the transition period is extended indefinitely
Are you suggesting a Nigel Farage Premiership with Starmer still LOTO?
I am suggesting never mind possibly losing the next general election, if the Tories extend indefinitely they face a Canada 1993 style wipe out at the next general election and being overtaken by the Brexit Party as the Reform Party overtook the Canadian Tories then
Ending Free Movement is the thing. So long as they do that as promised on 1st Jan 2021 Brexit will be "Done" as regards most Leavers - particularly the Red Wallers to whom they owe their landslide majority. Those voters would not know a Single Market or a Customs Union if they tripped over one.
Correct but they will be blaming Boris if they lose their jobs next year.
Losing them now and people may blame Covid, loss them after Brexit is confirmed and Boris will start to really carry the blame.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
You have a point, but simply 'Getting Brexit Done' and avoiding Corbyn in No 10 must have been appealing. The reality of a WTO exit, which a lot of influential Tories actually want, will hit people economically and the Tories politically but they may try to blame Covid19.
Oh absolutely, and as you may have noticed from my posts, I am extremely concerned that there is even the vaguest possibility of a "WTO exit" but that's what people, The People voted for.
I dont like her policies but think Priti Patel is a lot better than opponents give her credit for, and above average in this very poor cabinet. In the Commons now she is polite, clear and on top of her brief. It is an extremely low bar but she is well ahead of the likes of Raab, Sharma, Shapps, Williamson or Rees Mogg.
She has also had the good sense - or low cunning - not to tie herself to Cummings.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Well my point was that the “City of Sunderland” is not the only part of the North East affected by Nissan. Berwick upon Tweed, Hexham, Blyth Valley, North West Durham, Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are all Tory seats that a likely to be home to Nissan workers, its supply chain, or its auxiliary services.
The Tories can't ignore the North East, even if narrow electoral calculus says they can. It'd probably be a bit like Wisconsin in the EC for Clinton last time round if they did. Redcar is Labour target 49.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
Not quite as remember most people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
As with the poll tax, Brexit will occur, Nissan will close and the Tories will cop all the blame...
Basically if Nissan closes the red wall will return to Labour for the next 20 years.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
"You voted to make yourself unemployed. Can I count on your support again"?
yeah, that'll work
Still better than coming 3rd behind the Brexit Party if the transition period is extended indefinitely
Are you suggesting a Nigel Farage Premiership with Starmer still LOTO?
I am suggesting never mind possibly losing the next general election, if the Tories extend indefinitely they face a Canada 1993 style wipe out at the next general election and being overtaken by the Brexit Party as the Reform Party overtook the Canadian Tories then
Ending Free Movement is the thing. So long as they do that as promised on 1st Jan 2021 Brexit will be "Done" as regards most Leavers - particularly the Red Wallers to whom they owe their landslide majority. Those voters would not know a Single Market or a Customs Union if they tripped over one.
Correct but they will be blaming Boris if they lose their jobs next year.
Losing them now and people may blame Covid, loss them after Brexit is confirmed and Boris will start to really carry the blame.
I suspect he will lash Brexit and Covid together. Brexit would have been fantastic were it not for Coronavirus will be his clarion cry.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
"they voted for Brexit"
Yes, why did they vote for Brexit
"because they want Brexit. So we have to give them Brexit"
Yes but what were they hoping for out of Brexit
"brexit"
To be fair, on an individual basis most people could give the reasons they supported Brexit. The problem has always been that collectively no single flavour Brexit had more than 25-30% public support. That makes it unlikely the Brexit coalition can survive the reality of Brexit, as whatever choices are made, even if implemented perfectly, a significant proportion will feel misled.
Thats the point i was making. People up here voted for something better. Its hard to put your finger on exactly why things are bad, but they *are* bad. Brexit was the ultimate silver bullet fuck you. Vote for change then things get better. People aren't going to accept things getting worse.
I recall the conversation broadly going along these lines:
People: "Things are bad, I don't like this EU thing, let's get out of it" Experts: "If we get out of the EU, things will be even worse" Prominent Vote Leave guy: "People in this country have had enough of experts" People: "We agree, let's get out of the EU"
Followed by a couple of years of:
Experts: "If we don't change our mind, things will be even worse. We told you" People: "Didn't you hear us the first time?"
You're right that people aren't going to accept things getting worse. But HYUFD is also right that, even after being repeatedly told that everything is likely to go to shit, people still voted for this.
I can see two possible ways out of this: either the electorate punishes the party that does what it asked them to do, or the electorate is brainwashed into thinking that the reason things are still bad is because of some other bogeyman. Given Johnson's role in forming the "Brussels is bad" trope in the first place, I wouldn't bet against the latter.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
I’m sorry @TOPPING this is just wrong. Go on any Facebook article that mentions any sort of positive news about Nissan and the comments are full of Brexit supporters deriding “lefty remoaners” for even suggesting Nissan would close.
If Nissan did close due to “WTO terms” then the “red wall” will not be happy”. To suggest the risks were known is laughable.
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
That's the advice, but is there a ban?
Don't think I said there was did I. Nope I definitely didn't.
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
Again it was a poor attempt at a joke.
You didn't, it was me who said there was never a ban.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Don't forget the the Poll Tax was a Tory manifesto commitment (the 'flag-ship' policy in fact). That didn't stop everyone going absolutely ape when they had to suffer the consequences, nor did it deflect any political damage from Maggie.
Absolutely. The wonders of our democracy people can take it out on them at the ballot box.
I recall the conversation broadly going along these lines:
People: "Things are bad, I don't like this EU thing, let's get out of it" Experts: "If we get out of the EU, things will be even worse" Prominent Vote Leave guy: "People in this country have had enough of experts" People: "We agree, let's get out of the EU"
Followed by a couple of years of:
Experts: "If we don't change our mind, things will be even worse. We told you" People: "Didn't you hear us the first time?"
You're right that people aren't going to accept things getting worse. But HYUFD is also right that, even after being repeatedly told that everything is likely to go to shit, people still voted for this.
I can see two possible ways out of this: either the electorate punishes the party that does what it asked them to do, or the electorate is brainwashed into thinking that the reason things are still bad is because of some other bogeyman. Given Johnson's role in forming the "Brussels is bad" trope in the first place, I wouldn't bet against the latter.
It will be their approach, question is will it actually work - and I suspect it won't...
My election motto for the next election would be The Tories have spent 14 years screwing things up. The Monster Raving Looney party can't be any worse...
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Don't forget the the Poll Tax was a Tory manifesto commitment (the 'flag-ship' policy in fact). That didn't stop everyone going absolutely ape when they had to suffer the consequences, nor did it deflect any political damage from Maggie.
Far fewer Tory voters supported the poll tax than now support WTO terms Brexit however.
It would take the majority of Tory voters shifting to back staying in the single market for the party to change its policy on it
How do you know that? As happened with the Poll Tax, I doubt the majority of Tory voters (or the majority of anyone else for that matter) will have the fainest idea what 'WTO terms' means until they're suddenly faced with its grisly consequences.
No he wasn't!! He's just forensic and cool. There are only two take-aways from that PMQ's. 1. The letter (bad for Johnson) and 2. the appearance and manner of Johnson (bad for Johnson).
You're missing the biggest one - 24 hour test turn around be end of month - thats one heck of a rod for PHE (and the government)'s backs.
Good. Look at what a shambles PHE were making of the testing, until Hancock made a public pledge of 100k tests in April and refused to back down.
Indeed.
There isn't a point to test and trace if the testing takes five days to turn around. 90% within 48 hours currently apparently but it makes sense to push now for 24 hours.
Also makes more sense to get the testing done quicker than promise eg 300,000 tests or anything like that as the next step.
It is already too late to claim this as any form of success, let alone aiming to achieve it by July.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantine
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
20 points down to 10 in less than a month. Amazing result for you there.
I dont like her policies but think Priti Patel is a lot better than opponents give her credit for, and above average in this very poor cabinet. In the Commons now she is polite, clear and on top of her brief. It is an extremely low bar but she is well ahead of the likes of Raab, Sharma, Shapps, Williamson or Rees Mogg.
She has also had the good sense - or low cunning - not to tie herself to Cummings.
One of them who refused to send out the pathetic tweet supporting Wor Dom is supposed to have said, "He's never been interested in my opinion, why should he be now!".
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
Not quite as remember most people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
As with the poll tax, Brexit will occur, Nissan will close and the Tories will cop all the blame...
Basically if Nissan closes the red wall will return to Labour for the next 20 years.
Not necessarily. It’s possible the Government would be able to blame the EU for not “doing a deal”.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
What, exactly, are they protesting about? its not like the guy is going to walk. There's no cover-up or soft pedalling here.
They are going to throw to book at him in a high profile trial and much covered trial, and justice will be seen to be done. As it should be.
This will surely show that the strongest possible deterrent against this type of behaviour is already in place.
Here's a couple of things:
Three officer in question has no fewer than 30 official complaints in his jacket for brutality, almost all of which were from black members of the public. Why did Minnesota police continue to have him on the front lines?
Why does US law shield police departments from law suits? By only allowing individual officers to be sued, it effectively prevents the courts from pressuring errant police departments.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Well said. There is no 2 sides to this and there is no 2 sides - to anyone with either brain cell or sense of decency - to November. Trump must be voted out.
I happen to be very confident that he will be - and with quite some force.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
Not quite as remember most people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
As with the poll tax, Brexit will occur, Nissan will close and the Tories will cop all the blame...
Basically if Nissan closes the red wall will return to Labour for the next 20 years.
Again, absolutely, but that will be what they voted for. It is a bonkers thing to have voted for imo, although bear in mind I voted for it as I couldn't allow the possibility of Jezza getting into No. 10 but yes they may well return to Lab and good luck to them. If Boris and his bunch of clowns carry on as they are *I* may well return (or come) to Labour. But people voted for Brexit and then they voted for the Cons to deliver it and, as the saying goes, they are likely to get it good and hard.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Don't forget the the Poll Tax was a Tory manifesto commitment (the 'flag-ship' policy in fact). That didn't stop everyone going absolutely ape when they had to suffer the consequences, nor did it deflect any political damage from Maggie.
Far fewer Tory voters supported the poll tax than now support WTO terms Brexit however.
It would take the majority of Tory voters shifting to back staying in the single market for the party to change its policy on it
How do you know that? As happened with the Poll Tax, I doubt the majority of Tory voters (or the majority of anyone else for that matter) will have the fainest idea what 'WTO terms' means until they're suddenly faced with its grisly consequences.
WTO terms to most people sounds like a good idea - because it sounds like things will still be fair.
When you explain that WTO terms actually means other Governments can do what they want until a court 15 years later decides it was unfair, people's viewpoint rapidly changes.
Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantine
7% on a population of 65 million people is about 4 million people. How many deaths do you think that translates to?
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
That's the advice, but is there a ban?
Don't think I said there was did I. Nope I definitely didn't.
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
Again it was a poor attempt at a joke.
You didn't, it was me who said there was never a ban.
You must be really desperate for an argument today.
If I can help what do you want to go for? I'm up for AV, God, Brexit. I particularly get worked up by political correctness and jobs worths if that takes your fancy?.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
Once again we need to explain this to you with crayon drawings. The referendum was to leave the EU. The EEA is not the EU. Government policy is to translate "EU" as "EEA". Government policy is to cut every single trade deal we have with everyone. Government policy is to imperil our automotive sector.
Its nothing to do with the referendum. This is a political choice your party is making.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
I'm loving this: "A Scuffle broke out on the deck of the Titanic".
Why didn't you vote Leave? Why didn't you believe in Brexit until Leave actually won?
I would only have voted Leave if staying in the EU meant we would have had to join the Euro. Otherwise it was not worth the risk.
However Leave won and I respect the result
We’re not talking about Leave or Remain. We’re talking about the consequences in the hypothetical scenario that Nissan were to close in response to WTO tariffs.
I personally don’t think the Nissan factory will close either way.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
I’m sorry @TOPPING this is just wrong. Go on any Facebook article that mentions any sort of positive news about Nissan and the comments are full of Brexit supporters deriding “lefty remoaners” for even suggesting Nissan would close.
If Nissan did close due to “WTO terms” then the “red wall” will not be happy”. To suggest the risks were known is laughable.
Well I don't follow the chatrooms of the North East so I'll take your word for it. But the point stands that people voted for Brexit and they are going to get it. If they didn't know that there was a real risk that Nissan was going to close then they should have done a bit more research before they cast their vote.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Well my point was that the “City of Sunderland” is not the only part of the North East affected by Nissan. Berwick upon Tweed, Hexham, Blyth Valley, North West Durham, Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are all Tory seats that a likely to be home to Nissan workers, its supply chain, or its auxiliary services.
If the Tories extend indefinitely never mind the Red Wall, they will be lucky to hold Epping Forest next time!
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
Once again we need to explain this to you with crayon drawings. The referendum was to leave the EU. The EEA is not the EU. Government policy is to translate "EU" as "EEA". Government policy is to cut every single trade deal we have with everyone. Government policy is to imperil our automotive sector.
Its nothing to do with the referendum. This is a political choice your party is making.
You voted Leave too unlike me I recall.
Unfortunately for you most Leavers want to leave the single market and end free movement, you should have thought about that first and what would happen if Leave won
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
Once again we need to explain this to you with crayon drawings. The referendum was to leave the EU. The EEA is not the EU. Government policy is to translate "EU" as "EEA". Government policy is to cut every single trade deal we have with everyone. Government policy is to imperil our automotive sector.
Its nothing to do with the referendum. This is a political choice your party is making.
Yep. But that was a very likely outcome of a Leave vote. And lo it may well transpire.
Let's go back to that ballot paper again - it said remain or leave and people chose leave. It didn't have any nuances on it so the government is at liberty to interpret it however the damn well hell it likes. And if people think they have been betrayed then fine, kick out the govt in 2024 and elect someone else.
Interesting approach by Sir Keir. The softly-softly, above-the-fray option would have been politically safer. He obviously feels that the Cummings saga has given him the space to put the boot in.
With only 7% saying Cummings changed their behaviour not sure it will play well into public opinion who are on board with most of the easing and support the quarantine
That does not translate into personal support for Boris who has been largely absent. The impact of the Cummings story is as a result of the anger at the hypocrisy and perception tha the was behaving dangerously.
Which must be why the Tories are back to a double-digit lead with YouGov...
If Boris excels at winging it, then no one does whinging it like Starmer.
20 points down to 10 in less than a month. Amazing result for you there.
All that's happened is that the 'rally-round-the-flag' effect that accompanies national crises has dissipated, and normal political service has resumed. Still, at least the comical witch-hunt is over and Labour's still a long way behind
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
That's the advice, but is there a ban?
Don't think I said there was did I. Nope I definitely didn't.
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
Again it was a poor attempt at a joke.
You didn't, it was me who said there was never a ban.
You must be really desperate for an argument today.
If I can help what do you want to go for? I'm up for AV, God, Brexit. I particularly get worked up by political correctness and jobs worths if that takes your fancy?.
I just realised that also sounds like I am being serious rather than appreciating @RobD humour, which I did. Sigh I am not good at this!
Re political correctness - I come from the Jeremy Clarkson wing of the LDs.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
You have a point, but simply 'Getting Brexit Done' and avoiding Corbyn in No 10 must have been appealing. The reality of a WTO exit, which a lot of influential Tories actually want, will hit people economically and the Tories politically but they may try to blame Covid19.
Oh absolutely, and as you may have noticed from my posts, I am extremely concerned that there is even the vaguest possibility of a "WTO exit" but that's what people, The People voted for.
Topping, I remember when me and you told all and sundry - contra consensus - that there would be no form of Brexit agreed which put a border on the island of Ireland. Why? Because it would be utter lunacy.
And we were right of course. Do you remember? Course you do.
Well, I feel the same way now about WTO Brexit. An act of such palpable lunacy that I just more or less know it will not happen.
Are we a cross-the-aisle team again here or do you actually think they might do it?
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Well my point was that the “City of Sunderland” is not the only part of the North East affected by Nissan. Berwick upon Tweed, Hexham, Blyth Valley, North West Durham, Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are all Tory seats that a likely to be home to Nissan workers, its supply chain, or its auxiliary services.
If the Tories extend indefinitely never mind the Red Wall, they will be lucky to hold Epping Forest next time!
The Brexit Party would surge again
Err maybe, but aren't the Tories just aping the Brexit Party anyway so what does it matter?
I understand that it matters to the staff and politicians as their jobs are on the line if the party disappears beneath the waves but from the perspective of the majority of the electorate, who did not vote Conservative and also didn't vote TBP, this argument over your branding hardly matters.
It sounds like you are arguing that the UK gets the same disaster regardless of the name of the party in charge and because you've campaigned for the Orginal Brexit Party rather than Nigel Farage's one this is a good thing. Maybe for you...
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Agreed completely with everything you have written.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
Here's the thing. Why is he wrong? They voted for a policy which the government is now enacting.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming people didn't *really* want what they voted for.
HYUFD is absolutely right. The Conservative manifesto was pretty clear about what was going to happen. The Conservatives were going to Get Brexit Done and that looks to me like what they are going to do.
Oh of course we can all argue about the flavour of Brexit, and manifesto claims for trade deals, etc, and I would be at the forefront of making those arguments, but if the people in the North were so worried about that they could have voted for a different party altogether.
Once again, we are talking about Sunderland and unless I'm missing something all three Sunderland seats are held by Labour..
Ah in which case apols and that is fair enough. And I agree that if so then the burghers of Sunderland would probably not appreciate our man with the blue rosette knocking on their doors. But in general, I have a lot of sympathy for the point HYUFD was making. All the more so in fact if the voters of Sunderland foresaw the dangers of a Cons govt and voted Labour. Because the rest of the country and the Red Wall decided it was fine to close Nissan.
Not quite as remember most people don't think about the consequences of their actions.
As with the poll tax, Brexit will occur, Nissan will close and the Tories will cop all the blame...
Basically if Nissan closes the red wall will return to Labour for the next 20 years.
Not necessarily. It’s possible the Government would be able to blame the EU for not “doing a deal”.
Which is what Boris said in response to Teresa May.
179 new deaths in England. Absolutely loads of back dating, all the way back to 24th March !!!!
Last 3 days, 18 / 47 / 20
Piers Moron will shortly be screaming about death rate rising.
I must admit I thought the backdating was new deaths.
Of course they are not new deaths, they are newly attributable to COVID.
Presumably lots of people die infected with the virus but not of the virus?
Absolutely, other countries do not record those as Covid deaths but in the UK we do. If you are squashed by a bus and you test positive for Covid then it is recorded as a Covid death
There are 2 issues with this:
a) It shouldn't be and is nonsense if it is, although it may be because your vision was blurred (aka Cummings)
and
b) Why were you doing a Cummings in the first place by being out?
This 'you' wasn't Cummings was it?
There isn't, and never was, a total ban on going outside.
When infected?
Correct.
So I didn't just cut and paste this from a Govt web site then:
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
That's the advice, but is there a ban?
Don't think I said there was did I. Nope I definitely didn't.
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
Re-PMQs - It is striking that nowadays we assume that the Opposition Leader will rise to answer questions and that he will take advantage of his full quota. It was not like that until John Smith took over the position in 1992 and,thereafter, never failed to ask his three questions on Tuesdays and Thursdays.Prior to that the Opposition Leader would sometimes not ask a question at all - or limit the exchanges to one or two.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
“They knew what they were voting for”
It’s their own fault right? Is that the official Conservative Party line?
Oh this is gold.
No, it's not.
What isn’t?
We were discussing the impact of Nissan closing in the North East. I made no mention at all of Brexit, merely the likely factual impact that would have, Brexit or no Brexit.
@HYUFD’s response was essentially: “it doesn’t matter if Nissan closes. If that is a result of WTO terms, then it’s their own fault. They should not have voted Leave or for the Conservatives”.
You asked if it was official party line, it is not.
No, it's merely the view of a Tory Party constituency chairperson in the "I'm Alright, shame about the Plebs" South.
It is official party line.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
No it's not the official party line.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
You voted Leave. I did not.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
Once again we need to explain this to you with crayon drawings. The referendum was to leave the EU. The EEA is not the EU. Government policy is to translate "EU" as "EEA". Government policy is to cut every single trade deal we have with everyone. Government policy is to imperil our automotive sector.
Its nothing to do with the referendum. This is a political choice your party is making.
Yep. But that was a very likely outcome of a Leave vote. And lo it may well transpire.
Let's go back to that ballot paper again - it said remain or leave and people chose leave. It didn't have any nuances on it so the government is at liberty to interpret it however the damn well hell it likes. And if people think they have been betrayed then fine, kick out the govt in 2024 and elect someone else.
That's the whole premise of Take Back Control. Glad you're coming around to it
No he wasn't!! He's just forensic and cool. There are only two take-aways from that PMQ's. 1. The letter (bad for Johnson) and 2. the appearance and manner of Johnson (bad for Johnson).
You're missing the biggest one - 24 hour test turn around be end of month - thats one heck of a rod for PHE (and the government)'s backs.
Good. Look at what a shambles PHE were making of the testing, until Hancock made a public pledge of 100k tests in April and refused to back down.
Indeed.
There isn't a point to test and trace if the testing takes five days to turn around. 90% within 48 hours currently apparently but it makes sense to push now for 24 hours.
Also makes more sense to get the testing done quicker than promise eg 300,000 tests or anything like that as the next step.
It is already too late to claim this as any form of success, let alone aiming to achieve it by July.
It's never too late to do the right thing.
I think even you might accept that a 24 hrs small pox test might be a bit late now.
"we detected SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells in 40%–60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross- reactive T cell recognition between circulating ‘‘common cold’’ coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2"
Next question - is the level of CD4+ T cells found in unexposed individuals enough to provide either immunity or serious symptoms mitigation? Or is the entire spectrum of immune response required for that?
If the former, good news all around. If the latter, this is a complication, as it greatly reduces the predictive value of a positive serology test and essentially takes the idea of COVID passports off the table.
Buried in the article: "a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend." In fact, not only had a fire been set that required a police escort to enable the firemen to put it out, but the flag outside the church had been torn down and burned, glass smashed in the windows, and anti-Trump graffiti sprayed on the building; the rector and wardens were sufficiently concerned to remove valuable items from the church on the morning of Trump's visit. Not mentioned anywhere in the article: the police cleared the space less than half an hour before Washington DC's curfew was due to go into effect.
Significant sections of the US media are covertly supporting the riots, often with omissions in reporting and talking about protestors rather than rioters.
Clearly a total breakdown in law and order is desirable for them, so long as it's seen as bad for the president.
That's nonsense, Sandpit. (As was Chelyabinsk's absurd effort to justify the teargassing of a legal protest, and the eviction of church officials form their own property for Trump's self-aggrandising photo opp.)
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
I am furious at the attempts to divert attention, by focusing on the rioters, from the dreadful number of unarmed black men being killed, and in this case clearly murdered, by the police for trivial or no offense. I am even more furious at Trump's blatant attempts to stoke up the flames of unrest in order to improve his political chances with the 'law and order' segment of the electorate. And I have a special fury for those GOP members of Congress who have aided and abetted this monster by failing at any point in time to hold him to account (with the very honourable exception of Mitt Romney).
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
Liking 'Kick out the Bums' as a campaign slogan. Campaign song available needing only a little adjustment.
You can bet on Biden at 1.06 on betfair to be Dem nominee, settled after convention. So that's a 6% return in 12 weeks as long as Biden doesn't drop out for some reason. For those worried about his health, you can also lay Hilary Clinton at 36.
Can we take a moment to recognise that in the last thread, @HYUFD suggested that if Nissan closed and it negatively affected the North East, then that is their own fault for voting for Brexit and for the Conservatives?
Can we just recognise this special moment please.
I did. I invited him to come and knock doors up here with a blue rosette on so that he can explain the triumph of the will to the local newly impoverished and unemployed.
The vast majority of Tory voters want to end the transition period and leave the single market and end free movement and leave the customs union as the Tories manifesto promised. If that is not delivered many if not most of them will switch back to the Brexit Party.
If voters in the North East voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019 they knew what they were voting for, the Tories should have no apologies in delivering it
"You voted to make yourself unemployed. Can I count on your support again"?
yeah, that'll work
Still better than coming 3rd behind the Brexit Party if the transition period is extended indefinitely
Are you suggesting a Nigel Farage Premiership with Starmer still LOTO?
I am suggesting never mind possibly losing the next general election, if the Tories extend indefinitely they face a Canada 1993 style wipe out at the next general election and being overtaken by the Brexit Party as the Reform Party overtook the Canadian Tories then
Ending Free Movement is the thing. So long as they do that as promised on 1st Jan 2021 Brexit will be "Done" as regards most Leavers - particularly the Red Wallers to whom they owe their landslide majority. Those voters would not know a Single Market or a Customs Union if they tripped over one.
Correct but they will be blaming Boris if they lose their jobs next year.
Losing them now and people may blame Covid, loss them after Brexit is confirmed and Boris will start to really carry the blame.
Yep, for sure.
That's why I predict a Deal is done this year that (i) ends FM and (ii) retains full SM access for a fee.
To take effect 1st Jan 2021.
This Interim 'SM without FM' Deal to continue in force until the Final Deal is negotiated in due course (target date set for 1st Jan 2022 probably). Final Deal likely to be close alignment.
The biggest single thing that the US could do to improve the behaviour of their police forces is to allow police departments and municipalities to be sued.
Imagine if a pharmaceutical company sold a drug that they knew caused - say - birth defects. But imagine that people affected couldn't sue the pharmaceutical company, only the researchers. The pharma company would have no interest in weeding out drugs that could kill people because, hey, if that happened they didn't get sued, some scientist (with no money) would.
If having a racist or brutal cop cost a police department money (lots, thereof), then they would have an economic interest in weeding out bad apples. Instead, if someone behaves poorly, well it looks bad... but there are no actual financial consequences.
Congress needs to change the law. Police departments need to be on the hook for their employees, or they will never be incentivized to change their behaviour.
The biggest single thing that the US could do to improve the behaviour of their police forces is to allow police departments and municipalities to be sued.
Imagine if a pharmaceutical company sold a drug that they knew caused - say - birth defects. But imagine that people affected couldn't sue the pharmaceutical company, only the researchers. The pharma company would have no interest in weeding out drugs that could kill people because, hey, if that happened they didn't get sued, some scientist (with no money) would.
If having a racist or brutal cop cost a police department money (lots, thereof), then they would have an economic interest in weeding out bad apples. Instead, if someone behaves poorly, well it looks bad... but there are no actual financial consequences.
Congress needs to change the law. Police departments need to be on the hook for their employees, or they will never be incentivized to change their behaviour.
Is it not the Supreme Court which is responsible for that ? Would the current court recognise as constitutional such a law from Congress ?
Comments
There isn't a point to test and trace if the testing takes five days to turn around. 90% within 48 hours currently apparently but it makes sense to push now for 24 hours.
Also makes more sense to get the testing done quicker than promise eg 300,000 tests or anything like that as the next step.
The party line is to go to WTO terms Brexit in December if the EU do not offer a Canada style FTA by then.
If Nissan close the factory because of WTO terms Brexit it will also be because of Government policy.
Hard choices lie ahead, no point wishing them away
And that the hard left anti-capitalist violent mobs have been about for ages, especially in places like Seattle and Portland. We have gone from anti-WTO at end of 90s, to Occupy in 2000s, and now morphed in to anti-fascists / anti-capitalist / defund the police mob.
With Trump and his emboldened of (until him the more hidden white supremacists movements), it has allowed them to get uncritical coverage from lots of media outlets.
And then in the middle of this you have protests, which we know when you get a big crowd it really doesn't take much for it to kick off. It can be a total misunderstanding and within a few minutes it has escalated e.g. that truck drive on the interstate could easily have been killed by the mob, because it looked to everybody like it was an attempted Charlottesville repeat, when it appears now by all reports it wasn't.
The official jobs report is Friday.
Stay at home
You and everyone else in your household must remain at home. Do not go to work, school, or public areas, and do not use public transport or taxis.
Nobody should go out even to buy food or other essentials, and any exercise must be taken within your home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and medication by phone or online. Delivery drivers should not come into your home, so make sure you ask them to leave items outside for collection.
The official party line is we are leaving the Single Market. The rest of that and not giving a shit about Nissan is all on you.
https://twitter.com/DanWeissy/status/1268142992193437696?s=20
The clear signs from last night were that where law enforcement refrained from aggression, protests remained peaceful, before or after curfew.
The Republican effort to conflate protests with riots is a fairly blatant one.
It would take the majority of Tory voters shifting to back staying in the single market for the party to change its policy on it
The city of Ferguson, Missouri - where an unarmed black teen was killed by a white policeman in 2014, sparking nationwide protests - has elected its first black mayor.
Ella Jones also becomes the first woman to serve in the position after the vote on Tuesday night, according to US media.
The city became the centre of nationwide protests after 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot dead. His body lay in the street for four hours before it was removed.
A grand jury decided not to prosecute the police officer who fired the fatal shots.
----
This kind of reporting worries me. It is factually correct, but there is serious omission. It can easily be read by those looking for injustice that the authorities let the police off, and at these heighten times, careful and complete reporting is required.
The reality is that this was not a a case of George Floyd. Michael Brown committed a crime, when a police officer attempt to arrest him, he assaulted the officer and tried to grab the officers gun and was shot.
There were many African American witnesses to this incident who backed up the series of events. And absolutely no evidence that the officer did anything wrong.
They are going to throw to book at him in a high profile trial and much covered trial, and justice will be seen to be done. As it should be.
This will surely show that the strongest possible deterrent against this type of behaviour is already in place.
However I respect the vote and the fact most Tory and Leave voters now want WTO terms Brexit.
However if Nissan closes because of WTO terms Brexit you own it more than me
It was also just a poor joke on my part not a challenge for an argument..
Also apologies to @NerysHughes if you thought when I was saying 'you' I meant you. I didn't. I meant the 'you' you were referring to i.e. the abstract anybody 'you'.
Again it was a poor attempt at a joke.
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1267914634461360135?s=20
Losing them now and people may blame Covid, loss them after Brexit is confirmed and Boris will start to really carry the blame.
https://twitter.com/CommonsLeader/status/1268155512652251136?s=20
https://twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1268159989077737474
As with the poll tax, Brexit will occur, Nissan will close and the Tories will cop all the blame...
Basically if Nissan closes the red wall will return to Labour for the next 20 years.
As someone whose sympathies lie with the socially liberal libertarians, I am finding myself increasingly aligned with NeoCons such as Bill Krystal and George Will who are urging Republicans to vote Democrat across the entire slate to kick the bums out. The GOP is no longer fit for purpose.
People: "Things are bad, I don't like this EU thing, let's get out of it"
Experts: "If we get out of the EU, things will be even worse"
Prominent Vote Leave guy: "People in this country have had enough of experts"
People: "We agree, let's get out of the EU"
Followed by a couple of years of:
Experts: "If we don't change our mind, things will be even worse. We told you"
People: "Didn't you hear us the first time?"
You're right that people aren't going to accept things getting worse. But HYUFD is also right that, even after being repeatedly told that everything is likely to go to shit, people still voted for this.
I can see two possible ways out of this: either the electorate punishes the party that does what it asked them to do, or the electorate is brainwashed into thinking that the reason things are still bad is because of some other bogeyman. Given Johnson's role in forming the "Brussels is bad" trope in the first place, I wouldn't bet against the latter.
If Nissan did close due to “WTO terms” then the “red wall” will not be happy”. To suggest the risks were known is laughable.
My election motto for the next election would be The Tories have spent 14 years screwing things up. The Monster Raving Looney party can't be any worse...
https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1268177111296151553?s=20
I wonder if it was Patel.
Three officer in question has no fewer than 30 official complaints in his jacket for brutality, almost all of which were from black members of the public. Why did Minnesota police continue to have him on the front lines?
Why does US law shield police departments from law suits? By only allowing individual officers to be sued, it effectively prevents the courts from pressuring errant police departments.
I happen to be very confident that he will be - and with quite some force.
When you explain that WTO terms actually means other Governments can do what they want until a court 15 years later decides it was unfair, people's viewpoint rapidly changes.
If I can help what do you want to go for? I'm up for AV, God, Brexit. I particularly get worked up by political correctness and jobs worths if that takes your fancy?.
However Leave won and I respect the result
Its nothing to do with the referendum. This is a political choice your party is making.
Coronavirus: France's virus-tracing app 'off to a good start'
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52905448
I personally don’t think the Nissan factory will close either way.
The Brexit Party would surge again
Unfortunately for you most Leavers want to leave the single market and end free movement, you should have thought about that first and what would happen if Leave won
Did Sir Quinoa get a grip?
Let's go back to that ballot paper again - it said remain or leave and people chose leave. It didn't have any nuances on it so the government is at liberty to interpret it however the damn well hell it likes. And if people think they have been betrayed then fine, kick out the govt in 2024 and elect someone else.
https://twitter.com/gitoma1/status/1268179128093683713?s=20
Still, at least the comical witch-hunt is over and Labour's still a long way behind
Re political correctness - I come from the Jeremy Clarkson wing of the LDs.
And we were right of course. Do you remember? Course you do.
Well, I feel the same way now about WTO Brexit. An act of such palpable lunacy that I just more or less know it will not happen.
Are we a cross-the-aisle team again here or do you actually think they might do it?
I understand that it matters to the staff and politicians as their jobs are on the line if the party disappears beneath the waves but from the perspective of the majority of the electorate, who did not vote Conservative and also didn't vote TBP, this argument over your branding hardly matters.
It sounds like you are arguing that the UK gets the same disaster regardless of the name of the party in charge and because you've campaigned for the Orginal Brexit Party rather than Nigel Farage's one this is a good thing. Maybe for you...
Next question - is the level of CD4+ T cells found in unexposed individuals enough to provide either immunity or serious symptoms mitigation? Or is the entire spectrum of immune response required for that?
If the former, good news all around. If the latter, this is a complication, as it greatly reduces the predictive value of a positive serology test and essentially takes the idea of COVID passports off the table.
https://youtu.be/vfKhvzUdJoM
So that's a 6% return in 12 weeks as long as Biden doesn't drop out for some reason.
For those worried about his health, you can also lay Hilary Clinton at 36.
That's why I predict a Deal is done this year that (i) ends FM and (ii) retains full SM access for a fee.
To take effect 1st Jan 2021.
This Interim 'SM without FM' Deal to continue in force until the Final Deal is negotiated in due course (target date set for 1st Jan 2022 probably). Final Deal likely to be close alignment.
Imagine if a pharmaceutical company sold a drug that they knew caused - say - birth defects. But imagine that people affected couldn't sue the pharmaceutical company, only the researchers. The pharma company would have no interest in weeding out drugs that could kill people because, hey, if that happened they didn't get sued, some scientist (with no money) would.
That is the situation in the US.
Thanks to Monell vs New York (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/436/658/) municipal employers can not be held responsible for the actions of their employees.
This is utter madness.
If having a racist or brutal cop cost a police department money (lots, thereof), then they would have an economic interest in weeding out bad apples. Instead, if someone behaves poorly, well it looks bad... but there are no actual financial consequences.
Congress needs to change the law. Police departments need to be on the hook for their employees, or they will never be incentivized to change their behaviour.
Would the current court recognise as constitutional such a law from Congress ?
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1267995719660720128