They've been harassing people for doing almost nothing for weeks and now they allow this sort of thing to happen. Disgraceful IMO.
"Harassing people for weeks" ? Come on - the situation at Easter was especially precarious - we were at the height of the outbreak. Even then, there were individuals who either didn't understand the rules or chose not to.
"Allow this sort of thing to happen" - you mean, people exercising their right to peacefully protest. Perhaps you'd be happier if it was a pro-Government march (not that there would be many people on it). The organisers obtained a permit to hold the rally and the Police are ensuring any outbreaks of violence are contained which is how it should be.
The point is that irrespective is this is indeed a peaceful protest it is still illegal . You ignore that
If people wish to virtue-signal about racism I'm more than happy to point out their own.
What's racist about linking to a Time article about a riot in NYC in 1991?
For clarity, what I wrote was:
@brokenwheel is probably old enough to remember this:
The incident that set off the 1991 Crown Heights riots was easy to pinpoint: on Aug. 19, a car driven by a Hasidic Jew hit and killed a young black child. As a private ambulance took the driver away from the scene and emergency responders worked to free the victim and another child pinned under the car, the area’s black and Jewish residents–who had long been tense neighbors–erupted in anger. As TIME later noted, the result was the worst episode of racial violence in New York City city since 1968, after the death of Martin Luther King. https://time.com/3989495/crown-heights-riots-time-magazine-history/
And what's racist about mentioning Willy Brandt KNEELING to commemorate and apologize for his nation's treatment of European Jews during the War?
Someone mentions they are a jew and the first thing you do is post an article about a jew murdering a black person and you don't understand how that is a teeny bit racist?
Doesn't there have to be intent for it to be murder?
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Daily Mail praising Starmer's PMQ performance. What reality am I in?
The Telegraph liked it too, or rather condemned Boris. At PMQs, the Prime Minister seemed increasingly affronted by Sir Keir Starmer’s habit of asking him difficult questions ... Sir Keir Starmer asked six questions about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. And in response, the Prime Minister seemed to grow more and more put out by the minute.
His voice grew louder and faster, and his manner more irate. With his index finger he stabbed at the despatch box, stab-stab-stab-stab-stab – like an indignant hotel guest, jabbing at the bell on an unmanned reception desk. Judging by his tone – hurt, aggrieved, and even bewildered – he seemed to view Sir Keir’s insistence on questioning him as an unexpected and uncalled-for impertinence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/oppositions-job-question-criticise-has-boris-johnson-forgotten/
Is this the start of the right wing press turning against Boris?
I was surprised so many people here thought Boris had "won".
The Daily Mail certainly is backing the poor working man Laboit leader against Boris... another reason notvto buy the hateful rag.. as though anyone needed one..
Daily Mail praising Starmer's PMQ performance. What reality am I in?
The Telegraph liked it too, or rather condemned Boris. At PMQs, the Prime Minister seemed increasingly affronted by Sir Keir Starmer’s habit of asking him difficult questions ... Sir Keir Starmer asked six questions about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. And in response, the Prime Minister seemed to grow more and more put out by the minute.
His voice grew louder and faster, and his manner more irate. With his index finger he stabbed at the despatch box, stab-stab-stab-stab-stab – like an indignant hotel guest, jabbing at the bell on an unmanned reception desk. Judging by his tone – hurt, aggrieved, and even bewildered – he seemed to view Sir Keir’s insistence on questioning him as an unexpected and uncalled-for impertinence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/oppositions-job-question-criticise-has-boris-johnson-forgotten/
Is this the start of the right wing press turning against Boris?
I was surprised so many people here thought Boris had "won".
The Daily Mail certainly is backing the poor working man Laboit leader against Boris... another reason notvto buy the hateful rag.. as though anyone needed one..
If people wish to virtue-signal about racism I'm more than happy to point out their own.
What's racist about linking to a Time article about a riot in NYC in 1991?
For clarity, what I wrote was:
@brokenwheel is probably old enough to remember this:
The incident that set off the 1991 Crown Heights riots was easy to pinpoint: on Aug. 19, a car driven by a Hasidic Jew hit and killed a young black child. As a private ambulance took the driver away from the scene and emergency responders worked to free the victim and another child pinned under the car, the area’s black and Jewish residents–who had long been tense neighbors–erupted in anger. As TIME later noted, the result was the worst episode of racial violence in New York City city since 1968, after the death of Martin Luther King. https://time.com/3989495/crown-heights-riots-time-magazine-history/
And what's racist about mentioning Willy Brandt KNEELING to commemorate and apologize for his nation's treatment of European Jews during the War?
Someone mentions they are a jew and the first thing you do is post an article about a jew murdering a black person and you don't understand how that is a teeny bit racist?
Doesn't there have to be intent for it to be murder?
Sorry, killing, I guess it makes all the difference.
To be fair most are wearing masks in the second video
They're not social distancing.
The Metropolitan Police need to deal with this NOW.
It's an unlawful gathering and could undo all the progress that we have made against Covid 19.
Heavy handed policing would only exacerbate the problem, in all likelihood. As the Met Commissioner said this evening, it’s a matter of balancing risk.
Ordinarily this demo wouldn't be a problem.
But under the current environment these people are not only creating risk for themselves but also for many people likely to be of much greater risk of Covid 19.
The staff in ICUs in places like Northwick Park will not appreciate a return to conditions that they endured in April just because these people think they need to demonstrate now
Trying to break up the demonstration (or even, as @Luckyguy1983 seems to be suggesting, arrest several thousand people...) would not do anything to help that, and would in all likelihood make it worse.
About the only thing they could have done would have been to hand out free masks.
Under Theresa May's watch (as Home Secretary) we had unrestrained riots. The rioters did so with impunity. A martial arts expert wanted to come to the UK to train shopkeepers how to protect their premises - he was banned from travelling. We have a very sorry record in this country of protecting law breakers and harassing the law abiding. I hope these idiots have got it out of their system now. If they haven't, it's an opportunity to do things differently.
You do write some nonsense - "unrestrained riots" and "the rioters did so with impunity". There were over 3,000 arrests during the 2011 riots - not an insignificant proportion of the rioters. Where's the impunity? I've no idea how many took part, but I'd guess around 10,000 and no more than 30,000.
Is BoZo wearing an earpiece in Parliament? What a useless dud that man is. Can only be sent out in public when someone is feeding him lines.
Surely you can't be right. If you are right, there must have been a very bad signal into the HoC, or someone really useless like Domenic Cummings was on the other end of the wire.
Is BoZo wearing an earpiece in Parliament? What a useless dud that man is. Can only be sent out in public when someone is feeding him lines.
Is that true?
I don’t think so there was a close up showing a void in his ear which was black and some leapt to the earpiece theory. I was just surprised I couldn’t see right through
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
Interested in the leaked Transport for London showing the Underground can only run at about 15% capacity with a full service and 2m social distancing. Reduce the latter to 1m and the capacity only goes up to 25% at peak times.
Neither Mrs Stodge nor I expect to be back at our offices anytime soon.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
If people wish to virtue-signal about racism I'm more than happy to point out their own.
What's racist about linking to a Time article about a riot in NYC in 1991?
For clarity, what I wrote was:
@brokenwheel is probably old enough to remember this:
The incident that set off the 1991 Crown Heights riots was easy to pinpoint: on Aug. 19, a car driven by a Hasidic Jew hit and killed a young black child. As a private ambulance took the driver away from the scene and emergency responders worked to free the victim and another child pinned under the car, the area’s black and Jewish residents–who had long been tense neighbors–erupted in anger. As TIME later noted, the result was the worst episode of racial violence in New York City city since 1968, after the death of Martin Luther King. https://time.com/3989495/crown-heights-riots-time-magazine-history/
And what's racist about mentioning Willy Brandt KNEELING to commemorate and apologize for his nation's treatment of European Jews during the War?
Someone mentions they are a jew and the first thing you do is post an article about a jew murdering a black person and you don't understand how that is a teeny bit racist?
Doesn't there have to be intent for it to be murder?
More or less. In England the mens rea of murder is either an intention to kill or an intention to cause grievous bodily harm.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
Yes, for the most part I agree but the authorities sanctioned this demonstration so the charge of irresponsibility should be laid at the door of whoever approved the rally - Sadiq Khan?
Daily Mail praising Starmer's PMQ performance. What reality am I in?
The Telegraph liked it too, or rather condemned Boris. At PMQs, the Prime Minister seemed increasingly affronted by Sir Keir Starmer’s habit of asking him difficult questions ... Sir Keir Starmer asked six questions about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. And in response, the Prime Minister seemed to grow more and more put out by the minute.
His voice grew louder and faster, and his manner more irate. With his index finger he stabbed at the despatch box, stab-stab-stab-stab-stab – like an indignant hotel guest, jabbing at the bell on an unmanned reception desk. Judging by his tone – hurt, aggrieved, and even bewildered – he seemed to view Sir Keir’s insistence on questioning him as an unexpected and uncalled-for impertinence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/oppositions-job-question-criticise-has-boris-johnson-forgotten/
Yes, I didn’t think Starmer was great, but Johnson was ridiculous.
To be fair most are wearing masks in the second video
They're not social distancing.
The Metropolitan Police need to deal with this NOW.
It's an unlawful gathering and could undo all the progress that we have made against Covid 19.
Heavy handed policing would only exacerbate the problem, in all likelihood. As the Met Commissioner said this evening, it’s a matter of balancing risk.
Ordinarily this demo wouldn't be a problem.
But under the current environment these people are not only creating risk for themselves but also for many people likely to be of much greater risk of Covid 19.
The staff in ICUs in places like Northwick Park will not appreciate a return to conditions that they endured in April just because these people think they need to demonstrate now
Trying to break up the demonstration (or even, as @Luckyguy1983 seems to be suggesting, arrest several thousand people...) would not do anything to help that, and would in all likelihood make it worse.
About the only thing they could have done would have been to hand out free masks.
Under Theresa May's watch (as Home Secretary) we had unrestrained riots. The rioters did so with impunity. A martial arts expert wanted to come to the UK to train shopkeepers how to protect their premises - he was banned from travelling. We have a very sorry record in this country of protecting law breakers and harassing the law abiding. I hope these idiots have got it out of their system now. If they haven't, it's an opportunity to do things differently.
You do write some nonsense - "unrestrained riots" and "the rioters did so with impunity". There were over 3,000 arrests during the 2011 riots - not an insignificant proportion of the rioters. Where's the impunity? I've no idea how many took part, but I'd guess around 10,000 and no more than 30,000.
Agreed, looting seems one of the crimes that is most likely to be prosecuted. Stealing from a shop or house outside a demonstration/riot is much safer!
Daily Mail praising Starmer's PMQ performance. What reality am I in?
The Telegraph liked it too, or rather condemned Boris. At PMQs, the Prime Minister seemed increasingly affronted by Sir Keir Starmer’s habit of asking him difficult questions ... Sir Keir Starmer asked six questions about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. And in response, the Prime Minister seemed to grow more and more put out by the minute.
His voice grew louder and faster, and his manner more irate. With his index finger he stabbed at the despatch box, stab-stab-stab-stab-stab – like an indignant hotel guest, jabbing at the bell on an unmanned reception desk. Judging by his tone – hurt, aggrieved, and even bewildered – he seemed to view Sir Keir’s insistence on questioning him as an unexpected and uncalled-for impertinence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/oppositions-job-question-criticise-has-boris-johnson-forgotten/
They've been harassing people for doing almost nothing for weeks and now they allow this sort of thing to happen. Disgraceful IMO.
"Harassing people for weeks" ? Come on - the situation at Easter was especially precarious - we were at the height of the outbreak. Even then, there were individuals who either didn't understand the rules or chose not to.
"Allow this sort of thing to happen" - you mean, people exercising their right to peacefully protest. Perhaps you'd be happier if it was a pro-Government march (not that there would be many people on it). The organisers obtained a permit to hold the rally and the Police are ensuring any outbreaks of violence are contained which is how it should be.
The point is that irrespective is this is indeed a peaceful protest it is still illegal . You ignore that
It doesn't matter if it's illegal.
Peaceful protests shouldn't be attacked whether they're legal or illegal. If you can simply make peaceful protests illegal that is very authoritarian.
They won't deal with it because being Woke is more important for them.
That's outrageous nonsense. What would you have the Police do? Water cannon - oh wait, didn't someone buy those once and then have to give them back?
Rubber bullets, tear gas? Seriously?
They've been harassing people for doing almost nothing for weeks and now they allow this sort of thing to happen. Disgraceful IMO.
True, but pestering sunbathers is unlikely to result in an outbreak of mass rioting, whereas trying to break up the demo very well might. The sort of violence we've seen in the States is contagious, and most serving Met officers will have the events of 2011 on their minds under these circumstances. Especially since you know full well that if they start making arrests a disproportionate number of those dragged off to the cells are bound to be black.
And no, it's not fair, but neither is it particularly fair that the elderly and the shielders are being targeted for special distancing measures (i.e. being told to sit at home and rot more than everybody else.) Doesn't mean it's not the least damaging thing to do.
It was plod's feeble response to the initial trouble in 2011 which led it to go exponential.
Whether they have the tactics right now we'll have to wait and see.
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
We are talking about policing tactics not a legal point about social distancing. You were advocating the police getting "heavy". I was saying they (probably correctly) considered that getting "heavy" would have caused more harm than not. Nuts and sledgehammers and all that. Policing is a difficult job. The Met decided the risks of going in "heavy" outweiged the benefits of giving several thousand people spot fines for breaching the social distancing regs. If Derek Chauvin had decided not to go "heavy" on George Floyd after he allegedly tried to pay with a dodgy $20 then none of this would have happened. Thankfully our police have more sense than the idiots in certain US Police Depts.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
Yes, for the most part I agree but the authorities sanctioned this demonstration so the charge of irresponsibility should be laid at the door of whoever approved the rally - Sadiq Khan?
I'd agree with that too Stodge. This tweet is either horrendously naive or irresponsible, or both.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
Plenty of other stupidity in London yesterday:
A street party involving 500 revellers breaking lockdown rules in north-west London was broken up police in the early hours.
Videos on social media show hundreds of people gathering in Harlesden, despite Covid-19 social distancing rules.
The Met Police said five people had been arrested at the event involving 500 people on the Church Road Estate, which began on Tuesday night.
To be fair most are wearing masks in the second video
They're not social distancing.
The Metropolitan Police need to deal with this NOW.
It's an unlawful gathering and could undo all the progress that we have made against Covid 19.
Heavy handed policing would only exacerbate the problem, in all likelihood. As the Met Commissioner said this evening, it’s a matter of balancing risk.
Ordinarily this demo wouldn't be a problem.
But under the current environment these people are not only creating risk for themselves but also for many people likely to be of much greater risk of Covid 19.
The staff in ICUs in places like Northwick Park will not appreciate a return to conditions that they endured in April just because these people think they need to demonstrate now
Trying to break up the demonstration (or even, as @Luckyguy1983 seems to be suggesting, arrest several thousand people...) would not do anything to help that, and would in all likelihood make it worse.
About the only thing they could have done would have been to hand out free masks.
Under Theresa May's watch (as Home Secretary) we had unrestrained riots. The rioters did so with impunity. A martial arts expert wanted to come to the UK to train shopkeepers how to protect their premises - he was banned from travelling. We have a very sorry record in this country of protecting law breakers and harassing the law abiding. I hope these idiots have got it out of their system now. If they haven't, it's an opportunity to do things differently.
This was not a riot.
I agree, and it is wrong of me to imply that it will become one.
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
We are talking about policing tactics not a legal point about social distancing. You were advocating the police getting "heavy". I was saying they (probably correctly) considered that getting "heavy" would have caused more harm than not. Nuts and sledgehammers and all that. Policing is a difficult job. The Met decided the risks of going in "heavy" outweiged the benefits of giving several thousand people spot fines for breaching the social distancing regs. If Derek Chauvin had decided not to go "heavy" on George Floyd after he allegedly tried to pay with a dodgy $20 then none of this would have happened. Thankfully our police have more sense than the idiots in certain US Police Depts.
So all of a sudden the letter of the law is no longer of paramount importance? Good to know.
I said at the start of this pandemic, absent a vaccine, to survive this we're relying on the common sense of others.
So in reality, we're more fucked than a stepmom on pornhub.
Do not fear. Boris has set out his plans for an international Coronavirus vaccine alliance. He already has Bill Gates on board!
As the UK did so well at managing the response to Covid-19, it is only fair, I guess, that Boris sets himself up as the World's leader in the vanguard of the international effort to discover a vaccine.
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
US defence secretary Mark Esper instructs an investigation into the use of military helicopters in the vicinity of protestors outside the White House...and within hours it turns out the order came from Trump. Trump loves doubling down but knows when not to, I think. We'll soon find out. Perhaps it's a good thing Esper hasn't resigned, because if he stays in the cabinet he can vote to invoke the 25th amendment.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
Yes, for the most part I agree but the authorities sanctioned this demonstration so the charge of irresponsibility should be laid at the door of whoever approved the rally - Sadiq Khan?
I'd agree with that too Stodge. This tweet is either horrendously naive or irresponsible, or both.
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Let's hope they make some progress with the case this time.
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
We are talking about policing tactics not a legal point about social distancing. You were advocating the police getting "heavy". I was saying they (probably correctly) considered that getting "heavy" would have caused more harm than not. Nuts and sledgehammers and all that. Policing is a difficult job. The Met decided the risks of going in "heavy" outweiged the benefits of giving several thousand people spot fines for breaching the social distancing regs. If Derek Chauvin had decided not to go "heavy" on George Floyd after he allegedly tried to pay with a dodgy $20 then none of this would have happened. Thankfully our police have more sense than the idiots in certain US Police Depts.
So all of a sudden the letter of the law is no longer of paramount importance? Good to know.
As everyone from the PM down has agreed, policing pandemic restrictions can only work with the consent of the populace. An attempt to break up what was a large and overwhelmingly peaceful demonstration - to no actual benefit in terms of preventing infections - might have risked that consent (and would have required many more police attending).
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
We are talking about policing tactics not a legal point about social distancing. You were advocating the police getting "heavy". I was saying they (probably correctly) considered that getting "heavy" would have caused more harm than not. Nuts and sledgehammers and all that. Policing is a difficult job. The Met decided the risks of going in "heavy" outweiged the benefits of giving several thousand people spot fines for breaching the social distancing regs. If Derek Chauvin had decided not to go "heavy" on George Floyd after he allegedly tried to pay with a dodgy $20 then none of this would have happened. Thankfully our police have more sense than the idiots in certain US Police Depts.
Constable rain is the best disperser of crowds with little trouble or complaint. Perhaps plod can simply read a weather forecast.
If people wish to virtue-signal about racism I'm more than happy to point out their own.
What's racist about linking to a Time article about a riot in NYC in 1991?
For clarity, what I wrote was:
@brokenwheel is probably old enough to remember this:
The incident that set off the 1991 Crown Heights riots was easy to pinpoint: on Aug. 19, a car driven by a Hasidic Jew hit and killed a young black child. As a private ambulance took the driver away from the scene and emergency responders worked to free the victim and another child pinned under the car, the area’s black and Jewish residents–who had long been tense neighbors–erupted in anger. As TIME later noted, the result was the worst episode of racial violence in New York City city since 1968, after the death of Martin Luther King. https://time.com/3989495/crown-heights-riots-time-magazine-history/
And what's racist about mentioning Willy Brandt KNEELING to commemorate and apologize for his nation's treatment of European Jews during the War?
Someone mentions they are a jew and the first thing you do is post an article about a jew murdering a black person and you don't understand how that is a teeny bit racist?
Er, hang on! Who says it was a deliberate act of murder?
BTW: “Whoever saves one life saves the world entire.” - the Talmud, as quoted in Schindler's List.
Daily Mail praising Starmer's PMQ performance. What reality am I in?
The Telegraph liked it too, or rather condemned Boris. At PMQs, the Prime Minister seemed increasingly affronted by Sir Keir Starmer’s habit of asking him difficult questions ... Sir Keir Starmer asked six questions about the Government’s handling of the pandemic. And in response, the Prime Minister seemed to grow more and more put out by the minute.
His voice grew louder and faster, and his manner more irate. With his index finger he stabbed at the despatch box, stab-stab-stab-stab-stab – like an indignant hotel guest, jabbing at the bell on an unmanned reception desk. Judging by his tone – hurt, aggrieved, and even bewildered – he seemed to view Sir Keir’s insistence on questioning him as an unexpected and uncalled-for impertinence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/oppositions-job-question-criticise-has-boris-johnson-forgotten/
Is this the start of the right wing press turning against Boris?
I was surprised so many people here thought Boris had "won".
As was widely said at the time of his election bid, he has been lucky in never really having been properly held to account during his career to date. By now he surely thinks he should be above such troublesome responsibility.
Texas going Democrat would put a swift end to discussions about the unfairness of the Electoral College!
It really wouldn’t. It’s a bloody stupid system whoever wins by it.
It's not a bad system, as electoral systems go, but it has been heavily distorted so that it currently favors the Republican candidate. That can of course swing round violently. If Texas were to go blue, for example, it would suddenly no longer matter if Florida stayed red.
That still wouldn't make the system work properly though, just skewed in the opposite direction. They need to rethink the whole think and correlate EC votes more closely with population. At the moment that would help the Democrats enormously, so don't hold your breath.
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Don't the Germans prefer to keep their prisoners in... you know... prison?
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
That's a huge dead cat for Bozo to chuck on the table this evening. Was his performance at PMQs really so bad?
In fairness, the mass disobedience of lockdown in the April warm spell here didn’t lead to a new spike, despite assurances that it would.
The dog that did not bark.
This, so far, has been the case. The incredibly warm and sunny weather through much of April and May has encouraged people outdoors and, thank goodness, the transmission of the virus outdoors is rare.
I suspect one of the reasons it spread so widely was, mild weather notwithstanding, most people spend most of their time indoors in winter.
I feel fairly safe outdoors - yes, social distancing but I'm less concerned by those who don't or can't.
The Prime Minister has rightly identified the risk of gatherings moving indoors this weekend as the weather deteriorates - we'll see.
Personally I am not that fussed about having social distancing laws but whilst we have them you would expect the police to not encourage it (lawbreaking) wouldn't you? Apparently being woke and virtue signalling gets you off social distancing seems to be the message. The police got handy breaking up Piers Corbyn's lot but as far as I can see the only difference is one is a woke demo and the other a non-woke one
That is the most idiotic thing I have read on here for a while. There were, according to reports, about 50 people at the Piers Corbyn demo. Today's gathered several thousands amongst a febrile atmosphere created by the horrific murder of a black man by another police force in a country with which we have strong legal, cultural linguistic and historic ties. In that country protests have, in many cases as a result of heavy handed policing, resulted in riots. Furthermore a report came out yesterday that detailed the disparity in effect that Covid-19 is having on minority communities (yes - I know we don't know why but that is of scant comfort to those in those communities who will have their own views - just like everyone on here will). In those circumstances, may be, just may be, that the Metropolitan Police, with everything else going on, don't want a riot.
Don't start off being rude like that. The law on social distancing does not state that exceptions are made for worthy causes. Now that would be idiotic
We are talking about policing tactics not a legal point about social distancing. You were advocating the police getting "heavy". I was saying they (probably correctly) considered that getting "heavy" would have caused more harm than not. Nuts and sledgehammers and all that. Policing is a difficult job. The Met decided the risks of going in "heavy" outweiged the benefits of giving several thousand people spot fines for breaching the social distancing regs. If Derek Chauvin had decided not to go "heavy" on George Floyd after he allegedly tried to pay with a dodgy $20 then none of this would have happened. Thankfully our police have more sense than the idiots in certain US Police Depts.
Constable rain is the best disperser of crowds with little trouble or complaint. Perhaps plod can simply read a weather forecast.
Nature's rather gentle carpet bombing.
I wonder if a sort of 'area water cannon' has been tried for when nature isn't helping out?
A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
That's a huge dead cat for Bozo to chuck on the table this evening. Was his performance at PMQs really so bad?
No he was masterful. Or so the PB Tory fanboys were saying at lunchtime...
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
The impact of peaceful protest, lighting a candle or taking the knee, has so much more powerful an impact. Why do these numpties never seem to grasp that?
The problem is that any demo attracts a group of arseholes simply out to cause trouble and a spot of looting if the occasion arises. I doubt some of them even know what they are supposed to be protesting about.
To be clear, I think everyone at the protest today is being desperately irresponsible and frankly shouldn't be out in a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic no matter the cause. Light a candle or take a knee and post it to instagram from your home or some such. But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
The impact of peaceful protest, lighting a candle or taking the knee, has so much more powerful an impact. Why do these numpties never seem to grasp that?
The problem is that any demo attracts a group of arseholes simply out to cause trouble and a spot of looting if the occasion arises. I doubt some of them even know what they are supposed to be protesting about.
They shouldn't be protesting, except perhaps outside the American Embassy. This has absolutely nothing to do with us.
Texas going Democrat would put a swift end to discussions about the unfairness of the Electoral College!
It really wouldn’t. It’s a bloody stupid system whoever wins by it.
It's not a bad system, as electoral systems go, but it has been heavily distorted so that it currently favors the Republican candidate. That can of course swing round violently. If Texas were to go blue, for example, it would suddenly no longer matter if Florida stayed red.
That still wouldn't make the system work properly though, just skewed in the opposite direction. They need to rethink the whole think and correlate EC votes more closely with population. At the moment that would help the Democrats enormously, so don't hold your breath.
They've been harassing people for doing almost nothing for weeks and now they allow this sort of thing to happen. Disgraceful IMO.
"Harassing people for weeks" ? Come on - the situation at Easter was especially precarious - we were at the height of the outbreak. Even then, there were individuals who either didn't understand the rules or chose not to.
"Allow this sort of thing to happen" - you mean, people exercising their right to peacefully protest. Perhaps you'd be happier if it was a pro-Government march (not that there would be many people on it). The organisers obtained a permit to hold the rally and the Police are ensuring any outbreaks of violence are contained which is how it should be.
I am sure that you didn't condemn Dominic Cummings for driving somewhere, did you?
Comments
It was from Skwawkbox, so .....
But I'd expect him to need until Christmas to get over Corona properly.
I had a horrid bout of something fluey last Christmas that cost me 2 months housebound, and I'm still only back to 12-15 miles on the bike.
Interested in the leaked Transport for London showing the Underground can only run at about 15% capacity with a full service and 2m social distancing. Reduce the latter to 1m and the capacity only goes up to 25% at peak times.
Neither Mrs Stodge nor I expect to be back at our offices anytime soon.
But the police are in a no win situation here, Riot police aren't needed till it turns into an actual riot- if they're used whilst it's still a protest it'll provoke a riot. Some protesters who got violent have been rightfully arrested.
Peaceful protests shouldn't be attacked whether they're legal or illegal. If you can simply make peaceful protests illegal that is very authoritarian.
It's Rust Belt AND Sun Belt not a choice.
#forget2016
Whether they have the tactics right now we'll have to wait and see.
This tweet is either horrendously naive or irresponsible, or both.
https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status/1268137061451730946
WELSH POLL KLAXON
Surely three or four threaders tomorrow will be devoted to this momentous event? Social distancing ended down here in early April.
A street party involving 500 revellers breaking lockdown rules in north-west London was broken up police in the early hours.
Videos on social media show hundreds of people gathering in Harlesden, despite Covid-19 social distancing rules.
The Met Police said five people had been arrested at the event involving 500 people on the Church Road Estate, which began on Tuesday night.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52902984
Six people have been arrested following a brawl involving hundreds of youths on London's Hampstead Heath.
Police were deployed to the park at about 18:30 BST on Tuesday to disperse the crowd.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52902975
I don't know but I suspect their opinions on it would be somewhat more diverse than how the media and protestors are representing it.
https://twitter.com/Neera_jah/status/1268236044333387777
As the UK did so well at managing the response to Covid-19, it is only fair, I guess, that Boris sets himself up as the World's leader in the vanguard of the international effort to discover a vaccine.
The dog that did not bark.
I've just seen so much grandstanding today (including at work) that it's made almost me puke. No, I didn't say anything - I'm not stupid.
What do people really think?
I'd probably only find out in private.
https://t.co/jENxeATqgK
An attempt to break up what was a large and overwhelmingly peaceful demonstration - to no actual benefit in terms of preventing infections - might have risked that consent (and would have required many more police attending).
They made the best they could of the situation.
BTW: “Whoever saves one life saves the world entire.” - the Talmud, as quoted in Schindler's List.
That still wouldn't make the system work properly though, just skewed in the opposite direction. They need to rethink the whole think and correlate EC votes more closely with population. At the moment that would help the Democrats enormously, so don't hold your breath.
NEW THREAD
I suspect one of the reasons it spread so widely was, mild weather notwithstanding, most people spend most of their time indoors in winter.
I feel fairly safe outdoors - yes, social distancing but I'm less concerned by those who don't or can't.
The Prime Minister has rightly identified the risk of gatherings moving indoors this weekend as the weather deteriorates - we'll see.
I wonder if a sort of 'area water cannon' has been tried for when nature isn't helping out?
The problem is that any demo attracts a group of arseholes simply out to cause trouble and a spot of looting if the occasion arises. I doubt some of them even know what they are supposed to be protesting about.
England 0.61 (-0.03)
London 0.58 (+0.01)
Richmond had its first case yesterday in the last eight days.
The impact of today won't be seen until about June 10th.
On a highly emotional issue like this you'd only pick up the nuances in private 1:1 discussions.
You could do a run off a la France if you like.