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  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,247
    edited April 2020

    Dura_Ace said:




    And we all wish Boris a full and complete recovery.

    No "we" don't.
    beneath contempt
    Hypocrisy is contemptible, not honesty.
    What if you're honestly contemptible?
    At least in that case, you are honest, which puts you very slightly ahead of being merely contemptible ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    We'll agree to disagree, but a country where anything close to social distancing is impossible and many extended families live together in small spaces, is going to result in massive simultaneous infection rates. Not to mention the many rich there who will find ways around bans on travel and spread the virus around, because they think like Scottish CMOs that rules are for others to follow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,659
    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
  • What appears to have finally done for Catherine Calderwood was the disclosure last night that she had apparently made TWO recent visits to her second home. Did she inexplicably omit to mention this small detail to Nicola Sturgeon, incredible as this may seem, as it was certain to come out?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152
    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646

    HYUFD said:


    India will soon be the 3rd largest global economy, the US is the biggest global economy, a squeeze from them, the EU, the UK and Japan on China with economic sanctions if they do not close wet markets and improve lab safety would hit Beijing

    I don't know about the EU and the UK but I am highly confident that Japan is not going to do that.
    There is little love lost between Tokyo and Beijing
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Sandpit said:

    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.

    India or USA, I would imagine.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    MaxPB said:

    I seriously don't understand why the easyJet board are burying their heads in the sand. It's blatantly obvious that their forecasts are completely crap and they won't need the new planes. Asking for government money to buy new planes is just wrong. Hopefully Stelios completey dismantles the current board.

    Looking forward it really should be possible to remove the bottom 25% of least efficient planes from service and still have surplus planes to go around. Only a major breakthrough in efficiency or carbon neutrality could justify investing in new planes for the next decade.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    MattW said:

    Sir Kevin's appointment of Lisa Nandy to Foreign Secretary interests me.

    As I read her campaign, her policy innovations were more around things at home and in society.

    Did she say much about Foreign Policy?

    Yes. The party’s been far too soft on Russia under Corbyn.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    kle4 said:

    Worst of it is I know dura ace has a self satisfied erection right now. I showed them, I'm so cool and edgy, look at em get all mad. Should I have thrown in a swear as well to be extra cool? Nah, it's fine.

    Bog standard contrarian stuff. Others are 'expected' to express sympathy, so show them up by not doing so.

    At least it’s stopped him boring on about doing wheelies on his bmx or 34mph in a 30 zone in his souped up Nissan micra
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Sandpit said:

    After all the reports that Sturgeon was having a good crisis, she's messed up this one quite spectacularly. How did she not think that the story would be top of the news until Calderwood quit?

    Clumsy to have the press conference and then the resignation an hour afterwards.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,037

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,247
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    You might want to Google the "Thin Fat Indian" study of why so many Indians who look healthy develop "Western" diseases like insulin resistance or heart trouble.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    Don't you think that the fact TB is very widespread in India, with 3 million confirmed, diagnosed cases, might cause something of an issue?
    3 million TB cases equates to less than 1% of the Indian population
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited April 2020
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    I seriously don't understand why the easyJet board are burying their heads in the sand. It's blatantly obvious that their forecasts are completely crap and they won't need the new planes. Asking for government money to buy new planes is just wrong. Hopefully Stelios completey dismantles the current board.

    Looking forward it really should be possible to remove the bottom 25% of least efficient planes from service and still have surplus planes to go around. Only a major breakthrough in efficiency or carbon neutrality could justify investing in new planes for the next decade.
    That's already happening to some extent, lots of airlines retiring 747-400s and old A330s and A340s. If the 737-MAX ever gets flying again, probably a lot of older 737s and A320s to be retired too.

    Second-hand planes of the last generation are going to be dirt-cheap to buy this year though, the economics of buying new vs used very much tilted in favour of the latter for any airline startup or expansion - doubly so with oil prices on the floor and fuel efficiency less of a factor in operating costs.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    I don't think "First World Problems" quite covers it.....

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1247080633798668293?s=20
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 5,700
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'm amazed to learn that cancer is infectious.
    Some type can be caused by viruses. The ones I know of you have to be a lot closer than 2m away to get.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    Like, what, AIDS, malaria, TB, polio, dysentery, treatment resistant bacterial pneumonia, pollution-linked lung disease and malnutrition? To repeat a question I asked you the other day, have you ever been to any third world country?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,775
    Suspend your derision Foxosceptics, but the other Dr Fox (Liam of that ilk) has written a very good explanatory piece on the virus with some ideas about phasing out the shut-down.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2020/04/liam-fox-the-virus-what-it-is-what-it-means-and-the-two-options-open-to-ministers-for-phasing-out-the-shutdown.html
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Endillion said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India's potential is not in its direct trade with China but more its billion people. On current trends India is expected very soon to overtake China as the world's most populous nation - it may already be in fact.

    If we were to seek an economic cold war with China (and I don't see it happening) then it isn't simply about consumerism, we would need to diversify production lines away from China. India could be an alternative trading partner.
    Except that India has spent a lot of time and effort building up a services based export economy, which is one thing we definitely don't need. They don't really make much that we want, and I'm not clear what it is that they would want to buy from us (in large quantities, that isn't already being traded).
    Indeed but with 1.4 billion people in India they have the potential to build a manufacturing based export economy too, especially if they were encouraged/supported to do so in place of China.

    Not saying it will happen, but its got potential.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,817
    The Scottish CMO bungle was a foolish mistake but it has now been sorted and it's time to move on. There are much more important things to focus on now. Overall Sturgeon has played a straight bat during the crisis and I wouldn't damn her over this silly error.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    Don't you think that the fact TB is very widespread in India, with 3 million confirmed, diagnosed cases, might cause something of an issue?
    3 million TB cases equates to less than 1% of the Indian population
    You’ll probably be able to point to the figures and say ‘I was right’ although I bet the actual deaths will be several orders of magnitude greater.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,247
    DavidL said:

    Today is quite an important day for new cases in the UK. There were tentative signs that we might have peaked a little earlier than forecast but yesterday was not a good day. Will that prove to be a blip or have we one more ratchet to come?

    The slight reduction in new hospitalisations also indicated this. In the week before our official lockdown many, many companies and businesses took their own steps encouraging working from home, cancelling football matches and other public events etc. We are therefore a bit more into the lockdown than the official two weeks.

    We are also seeing the first hints of a slow down on a global scale. A long way to go but we just might be past the explosive period of growth.

    How much of our spare bed capacity has actually been utilised? At the outset of this we were told that hospitals would be swamped, but there have been reports of empty hospitals.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    I seriously don't understand why the easyJet board are burying their heads in the sand. It's blatantly obvious that their forecasts are completely crap and they won't need the new planes. Asking for government money to buy new planes is just wrong. Hopefully Stelios completey dismantles the current board.

    Looking forward it really should be possible to remove the bottom 25% of least efficient planes from service and still have surplus planes to go around. Only a major breakthrough in efficiency or carbon neutrality could justify investing in new planes for the next decade.
    That's already happening to some extent, lots of airlines retiring 747-400s and old A330s and A340s. If the 737-MAX ever gets flying again, probably a lot of older 737s and A320s to be retired too.

    Second-hand planes of the last generation are going to be dirt-cheap to buy this year though, the economics of buying new vs used very much tilted in favour of the latter for any airline startup or expansion - doubly so with oil prices on the floor and fuel efficiency less of a factor in operating costs.
    It’s exhaust emissions that are going to be key. In the event that we ever build the new runway at Heathrow I would expect a “clean” standard below which planes will not be able to operate there and I expect this to become increasingly rigorous in all City airports in the west.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    Rather than come back angry scapegoating others I think a different kind of personal, I think it makes him more likely to come out and admit his own governments mistakes. With a “we were too slow” apology.
    Ironically what this will do is completely detoxify attacks on his government for the early confusion and mixed messages and boost his own approval score to untouchable for ten years level.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    One of the best bets I never had, selling their share price at 1115p
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,037
    Is it just me is there a hit of moralising creeping in when some people say that CV19 targets larger, older westerners. If only they had led purer lives...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968

    What appears to have finally done for Catherine Calderwood was the disclosure last night that she had apparently made TWO recent visits to her second home. Did she inexplicably omit to mention this small detail to Nicola Sturgeon, incredible as this may seem, as it was certain to come out?

    Sounded like it!
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Get well soon, Prime Minister.

    This tweet from a Canadian doctor is worrying, and not just for the Prime Minister:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Seconded.
    This is a market I have zero interest in betting on.
    No, no - everyone except the over-70s must get this for the good of the economy.
    It’s 50’s and under taking up the ventilators. Herd immunity died this weekend.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 1,104
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    After all the reports that Sturgeon was having a good crisis, she's messed up this one quite spectacularly. How did she not think that the story would be top of the news until Calderwood quit?

    Clumsy to have the press conference and then the resignation an hour afterwards.
    Still find it extraordinary how she messed this up, given that Calderwood's position was clearly impossible as soon as the news broke.

    If her resignation had been immediately accepted, or she'd been sacked, that would have rammed across the message that non-essential travel must stop. In other words it could have been used to advantage

    Instead, the impression given was that it's not so important, a point the various twerps who refuse to accept that they should be inconvenienced will have got. And, even more poisonously, it's one rule for the priviligentsia and another for everyone else.

    And to compound it, by stating that Calderwood was indispensible to her personally, Sturgeon has simultaneously damaged her own credibility for dealing with Covid and undermined the position of Calderwood's deputy who will presumably now take over.

    Appreciate that to everyone south of the border this all may seem a bit inconsequential - but it looks different up here, given the political context.

  • Blimey! I totally get how Stelios would be exercised by this - he built the company and now the current board seem likely to sink it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    Sandpit said:

    After all the reports that Sturgeon was having a good crisis, she's messed up this one quite spectacularly. How did she not think that the story would be top of the news until Calderwood quit?
    Its a rare mis-step from a pretty sure-footed politician.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    Do you think the three people you mention were good, trustworthy blokes up until recently then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    Don't you think that the fact TB is very widespread in India, with 3 million confirmed, diagnosed cases, might cause something of an issue?
    3 million TB cases equates to less than 1% of the Indian population
    Has it occurred to you that given the, shall we say, patchy medical coverage in India it might be a very significant underestimate? WHO estimates it at around 3% - and that in itself may be on the low side.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    Small piece of good news. Our personal Springwatch birdbox definitely has a pair of blue-tits building a nest in it. We hope to see eggs in a week or so, particularly if yesterday's weather is repeated.
    Much more entertaining than daytime TV, even allowing for watching what we've recorded, Netflix or whatever.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Back in January when I could see what might be coming and ordered my filtration mask at £9.99 I did think for a few seconds about ordering 200 of them.

    Only for a few seconds. Yes, I'd have made a lot of money from the re-sale but my life isn't just about money making.

    You would have donated them to Local care homes for free. That’s why we love you Rose.
    But you do need to go back to bed monetarily this morning, and then emerge from a different side.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,217
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me is there a hit of moralising creeping in when some people say that CV19 targets larger, older westerners. If only they had led purer lives...

    Or less pure lives, and died younger?

    It's hardly news that living an unhealthy lifestyle makes you more susceptible to a range of illnesses. I think most people in the West have now come to terms with the fact that it's a trade off that some people will accept, and some won't.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,056
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me is there a hit of moralising creeping in when some people say that CV19 targets larger, older westerners. If only they had led purer lives...

    Well, yes and no. People could look after their health. Not smoke, eat properly, get exercise, not drink to excess. Type 2 diabetes is largely a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately I think standard Western dietary advice doesn't help (I'm low carb)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    After all the reports that Sturgeon was having a good crisis, she's messed up this one quite spectacularly. How did she not think that the story would be top of the news until Calderwood quit?

    Clumsy to have the press conference and then the resignation an hour afterwards.
    The whole thing was really quite bizarre. As @ydoethur pointed out yesterday HR issues are not Nicola’s strong point although in fairness her weakness seems to be a strong loyalty to those close to her. But how anyone thought that it could be sensible to rely upon the judgment of someone so patently lacking it either in her original decisions or in failing to resign immediately is genuinely beyond me.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,261
    Betting post... I reckon Dems to be popular vote winner (2020) at 1.65 is value. That equates to a 60% chance, but I think it's much higher.

    Biden has led in virtually every head to head matchup in national polling. And for Trump to win re-election, he really shouldn't even try to win the popular vote.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    Blimey! I totally get how Stelios would be exercised by this - he built the company and now the current board seem likely to sink it.
    What's baffling is that current shareholders are happy to go in for a fundraising round but the board are ploughing on with asking for state help. Wtf is going on at easyJet.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,817
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me is there a hit of moralising creeping in when some people say that CV19 targets larger, older westerners. If only they had led purer lives...

    I think it is politics that is creeping in sadly. A pity because we really don't need too mjch of that right now. Thus far it's only been idiot journalists like Peston but the post crisis period is going to be very hard as well. The country, indeed the world, requires its rulers to be grown up right now and for some time to come.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    geoffw said:

    Suspend your derision Foxosceptics, but the other Dr Fox (Liam of that ilk) has written a very good explanatory piece on the virus with some ideas about phasing out the shut-down.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2020/04/liam-fox-the-virus-what-it-is-what-it-means-and-the-two-options-open-to-ministers-for-phasing-out-the-shutdown.html

    Thanks geoffw - that`s a superb article.

    Not sure the extent of Fox`s input into current policy, but I hope he`s in the mix somewhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    I seriously don't understand why the easyJet board are burying their heads in the sand. It's blatantly obvious that their forecasts are completely crap and they won't need the new planes. Asking for government money to buy new planes is just wrong. Hopefully Stelios completey dismantles the current board.

    Looking forward it really should be possible to remove the bottom 25% of least efficient planes from service and still have surplus planes to go around. Only a major breakthrough in efficiency or carbon neutrality could justify investing in new planes for the next decade.
    That's already happening to some extent, lots of airlines retiring 747-400s and old A330s and A340s. If the 737-MAX ever gets flying again, probably a lot of older 737s and A320s to be retired too.

    Second-hand planes of the last generation are going to be dirt-cheap to buy this year though, the economics of buying new vs used very much tilted in favour of the latter for any airline startup or expansion - doubly so with oil prices on the floor and fuel efficiency less of a factor in operating costs.
    It’s exhaust emissions that are going to be key. In the event that we ever build the new runway at Heathrow I would expect a “clean” standard below which planes will not be able to operate there and I expect this to become increasingly rigorous in all City airports in the west.
    Yes, absolutely. This already happens at LHR and I'd expect the rules to be tougher in future.

    I'd also expect APD to be redefined as being per plane based on weight and emissions rather than per passenger, in a similar way to how car tax now works.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,278
    egg said:

    MattW said:

    Sir Kevin's appointment of Lisa Nandy to Foreign Secretary interests me.

    As I read her campaign, her policy innovations were more around things at home and in society.

    Did she say much about Foreign Policy?

    Yes. The party’s been far too soft on Russia under Corbyn.
    How quickly Boris is forgotten! For it is he and not Corbyn who suppressed the report on interference in the election. The clue's in his name FFS.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wouldn't want to be Airbus (or Boeing) right now. They'll be praying for military contracts to hold up, because the commercial ones are all going to get cancelled as airlines go bust or reduce in size.
    Tempest and FCAS and going to have to be (somehow) mashed together because there aren't going to be two European 6th gens.

    Airbus Military's catalog is pretty slim beyond that. Every who wants an A400M now has more than they need, A330MRTT is a solid platform but who else is going to buy it? Then there's that extra C295 that Kazakhstan keep promising to buy.

    Boeing DS&S have KC-46, T-7, F-15EX and will probably get one of F/A-XX or NGAD. They look relatively healthy.
    The only way I would be happy with another consortium aircraft with the Germans would be if we (the UK) claim that we will buying 100,000 aircraft. To get the lions share of the work. Then we can renage on the buy later by threatening to collapse the project - and buy 300 or something.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    By continuing to get into bed with them as the Tories have been doing the last 10 years.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Blimey! I totally get how Stelios would be exercised by this - he built the company and now the current board seem likely to sink it.
    If what he's writing is right, that UK taxpayers are ultimately bailing out a Franco-German company then there's remarkable deja vu with the last economic crisis when other nations taxpayers ultimately bailed out French and German banks.

    WTF is the board thinking?
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,817
    isam said:
    I wonder why the officers were distressed?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    kamski said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Kamski,

    The antibody titre doesn't reach a maximum until some weeks after infection. if there's virus in the blood, it's a bloody peculiar virus and the antibody test doesn't check for virus RNA in the bloodstream anyway. Why would it?

    But thanks for the clarification - it's a cock-up by the BBC and the Guardian account is merely garbled. As for diagnostic tests … that's why they are validated before being allowed on the market. Oh, and nothing is 100% certain. I will probably die eventually but that's all that is certain.

    I still think I'm immortal, though.

    Of course the antibody test is testing for antibodies.

    Nevertheless it's just plain wrong to say "If you're testing for the antibody, there shouldn't be any virus left in the person's blood"

    It's certainly plausible that testing for IgM will be useful in quickly confirming a Covid-19 diagnosis. And more generally, as antibodies are detectable from a week from infection there's no reason why there shouldn't be any virus "left in the person's blood" when you do an antibody test.

    The virus is not in the blood, but in the respiratory system.

    If you're going to criticise others for the inaccuracies then try to be accurate yourself.

    “ antibody test is testing for antibodies“

    Am I an antibody can I have one?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    Yes, I know Paul Mason went a bit mad, but the it does look like BoZo's original response to COVID-19 was all about Brexit...

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1247075759598026755

    That may not play out to his ultimate advantage...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    egg said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    By continuing to get into bed with them as the Tories have been doing the last 10 years.
    Are you saying Johnson is going to screw the Chinese?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
    It's the wrong size - too big to be a C-130 replacement and too small to do what the C-141 can do.

    The turboprops were a terrible idea - *after* rough field turbofan capability had been demonstrated.
  • Dura_Ace said:




    And we all wish Boris a full and complete recovery.

    No "we" don't.
    A disgusting comment surely worthy of a ban by OGH.
  • felix said:

    The Scottish CMO bungle was a foolish mistake but it has now been sorted and it's time to move on. There are much more important things to focus on now. Overall Sturgeon has played a straight bat during the crisis and I wouldn't damn her over this silly error.

    I am not a Sturgeon fan but I agree.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited April 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    Yes, I know Paul Mason went a bit mad, but the it does look like BoZo's original response to COVID-19 was all about Brexit...

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1247075759598026755

    That may not play out to his ultimate advantage...

    ‘Bozo’. Classy 🙌🏻
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    felix said:

    The Scottish CMO bungle was a foolish mistake but it has now been sorted and it's time to move on. There are much more important things to focus on now. Overall Sturgeon has played a straight bat during the crisis and I wouldn't damn her over this silly error.

    Salmond has released his hounds.

    Normally the press north of the border only have their toenails showing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Dura_Ace said:




    And we all wish Boris a full and complete recovery.

    No "we" don't.
    A disgusting comment surely worthy of a ban by OGH.
    Is being a disgusting, contemptible, vile, subhuman nasty piece of work actually against the rules?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904

    DavidL said:

    Today is quite an important day for new cases in the UK. There were tentative signs that we might have peaked a little earlier than forecast but yesterday was not a good day. Will that prove to be a blip or have we one more ratchet to come?

    The slight reduction in new hospitalisations also indicated this. In the week before our official lockdown many, many companies and businesses took their own steps encouraging working from home, cancelling football matches and other public events etc. We are therefore a bit more into the lockdown than the official two weeks.

    We are also seeing the first hints of a slow down on a global scale. A long way to go but we just might be past the explosive period of growth.

    How much of our spare bed capacity has actually been utilised? At the outset of this we were told that hospitals would be swamped, but there have been reports of empty hospitals.
    I would be delighted if they over estimated demand and have no criticism for preparations in that respect. In Tayside we had 410 cases to yesterday and I would expect at least half of these to be treated in Ninewells. This is not a large number and stories of doctors with little to do proliferate. Much of the time is being spent retraining staff so that they can be more useful in the event that they are called upon. Scotland as a whole has 220 deaths, significantly below our share of the population. I looked at those heart wrenching videos of nurses struggling to cope over the weekend and it is evident that there are areas where this is every bit as bad as feared. Scotland, especially out with Glasgow, is really not suffering this right now.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Foxy said:

    Despite raising the prospect this time yesterday I couldn't bring myself to bet on this market. It just felt immoral for me personally. I wish Boris a speedy recovery.

    The amount of rubbish being spread on social media and the vigilantism is quite disturbing. If you want to see herd mentality it's currently in strident form. Going outside does not 'per se' spread the virus and it's important for the nation's physical and mental wellbeing. Keep your distance, wear protective gear, but DO get out.

    Two rather alarming news stories this morning.

    1. The tiger that has tested positive in NYC.

    2. South Korea's apparent discovery of re-infection. The latter is big trouble if it's corroborated. It would mean we become totally reliant on a cure or vaccine and not just immunity. We will have to await further tests on this.

    2, South Korea has not discovered evidence of reinfection, though that is not impossible. It has detected cases where the viral antigen test has become positive again. There are a variety of possibilities why this maybe so.
    Without calling you and your heroic colleagues Guinean pigs, the amount of virus you will continue to be exposed to will be good test of reinfection?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,541
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:
    But those 165,000 cancer sufferers don't all descend on their local hospitals within a few weeks?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    DavidL said:

    Today is quite an important day for new cases in the UK. There were tentative signs that we might have peaked a little earlier than forecast but yesterday was not a good day. Will that prove to be a blip or have we one more ratchet to come?

    The slight reduction in new hospitalisations also indicated this. In the week before our official lockdown many, many companies and businesses took their own steps encouraging working from home, cancelling football matches and other public events etc. We are therefore a bit more into the lockdown than the official two weeks.

    We are also seeing the first hints of a slow down on a global scale. A long way to go but we just might be past the explosive period of growth.

    How much of our spare bed capacity has actually been utilised? At the outset of this we were told that hospitals would be swamped, but there have been reports of empty hospitals.
    Regional variations in hospitalisation rates - some parts of London are heavily loaded. Some parts of the rest of the country are barely loaded.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.

    India or USA, I would imagine.
    I would expect at least one African country to beat them per capita. Egypt, Ethipoia Nigeria might beat the US absolutely, especially if you factor in indirect consequences for the economy and food production.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,813
    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
    It's the wrong size - too big to be a C-130 replacement and too small to do what the C-141 can do.

    The turboprops were a terrible idea - *after* rough field turbofan capability had been demonstrated.
    Do you mean the C17 rather than the C141? The C141 has been out of service for nearly fifteen years.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,713
    egg said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Get well soon, Prime Minister.

    This tweet from a Canadian doctor is worrying, and not just for the Prime Minister:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Seconded.
    This is a market I have zero interest in betting on.
    No, no - everyone except the over-70s must get this for the good of the economy.
    It’s 50’s and under taking up the ventilators. Herd immunity died this weekend.
    If it is 50s and under taking up the ventilators, that will surely be because they are being given priority over 60s and older. I suspect that the NHS is keeping its head (just) above water only through ruthless targeting of resources.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    felix said:

    isam said:
    I wonder why the officers were distressed?
    I wonder if the PB palm readers can analyse the grammar used in that, or any other comment, to predict the personality traits of the writer?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Only 2% increase in new cases in Valencia today lets hope were getting there!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,217

    Endillion said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India's potential is not in its direct trade with China but more its billion people. On current trends India is expected very soon to overtake China as the world's most populous nation - it may already be in fact.

    If we were to seek an economic cold war with China (and I don't see it happening) then it isn't simply about consumerism, we would need to diversify production lines away from China. India could be an alternative trading partner.
    Except that India has spent a lot of time and effort building up a services based export economy, which is one thing we definitely don't need. They don't really make much that we want, and I'm not clear what it is that they would want to buy from us (in large quantities, that isn't already being traded).
    Indeed but with 1.4 billion people in India they have the potential to build a manufacturing based export economy too, especially if they were encouraged/supported to do so in place of China.

    Not saying it will happen, but its got potential.
    Agreed. I've seen an increasing number of articles in recent years arguing that India should have done precisely this decades ago, rather than (or at least as well as) positioning itself as the world's outsourced call centre. But it'll take a very long time to reposition.

    The other problem is that I'm not actually convinced they have anything like as much in the way of natural resources as China does.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    It will be interesting to see whether Nandy is allowed to develop Brexit policy from shadow Foreign secretary, or if it's just somewhere to keep her out of the way in domestic policy.

    What’s been so interesting in recent years, big hitters who went for leaderships no longer in party’s. Betting tip. Nandy no longer to be in Labour in 4 years time, she is far too right wing and out of step with the Labour Party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
    It's the wrong size - too big to be a C-130 replacement and too small to do what the C-141 can do.

    The turboprops were a terrible idea - *after* rough field turbofan capability had been demonstrated.
    Do you mean the C17 rather than the C141? The C141 has been out of service for nearly fifteen years.
    Yes - sorry. Early morning brain.

    The RAF drool at the thought of more C-17s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    Like, what, AIDS, malaria, TB, polio, dysentery, treatment resistant bacterial pneumonia, pollution-linked lung disease and malnutrition? To repeat a question I asked you the other day, have you ever been to any third world country?
    The Palestinian authority, parts of Mauritius which were less wealthy but it is pre existing health conditions that impact on Covid 19 death rate only which are relevant
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
    It made journalists feel better.

    Actually getting more shells was about getting more machinery setup to make lathes for turning shells.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,659
    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Jonathan said:

    Is it just me is there a hit of moralising creeping in when some people say that CV19 targets larger, older westerners. If only they had led purer lives...

    You ate all the pies.
    And now you dies.
  • Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
    It's the wrong size - too big to be a C-130 replacement and too small to do what the C-141 can do.

    The turboprops were a terrible idea - *after* rough field turbofan capability had been demonstrated.
    Do you mean the C17 rather than the C141? The C141 has been out of service for nearly fifteen years.
    Yes - sorry. Early morning brain.

    The RAF drool at the thought of more C-17s.
    They'll just have to take fluids on then, as the production line shut down five years ago.

    From all I know of it though, it's a pretty impressive aircraft, in terms of capacity, payload, range, speed and ability to land in many places.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904

    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
    The appointment of such Tsars, as Blair liked to call them, would be more meetings, more liaison, disrupted lines of communication and accountability and a semblance of activity rather than a result. You don’t even have to know Peston thinks it’s a good idea to see it’s a bad one.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    Ha! The brain dead “mast burners” are out in force this morning 😆
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Does anyone know has @Andy_Cooke 's log chart of deaths per capita been updated in recent days? Or has anyone else done something comparable?
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    nichomar said:

    Only 2% increase in new cases in Valencia today lets hope were getting there!

    The dropoff in numbers across Spain seems to be really rapid. It seems, at least superficially, that it's quite different from Italy (at least at present).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,659

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    Please, stop wondering. It's not good for you.

    Or us.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    Even if the A400M is still a pile of unreliable crap.

    LOL. Ironically the A400 was a clever product that was the just the right size for the many air forces that can't afford a US style tactical/strategic hub system. It's a shame it was so late and expensive and a PoUC.

    It will probably be one of those aircraft that air forces will only come to appreciate once the production line is shut down and they can't have any more.
    It's the wrong size - too big to be a C-130 replacement and too small to do what the C-141 can do.

    The turboprops were a terrible idea - *after* rough field turbofan capability had been demonstrated.
    Do you mean the C17 rather than the C141? The C141 has been out of service for nearly fifteen years.
    Yes - sorry. Early morning brain.

    The RAF drool at the thought of more C-17s.
    They'll just have to take fluids on then, as the production line shut down five years ago.

    From all I know of it though, it's a pretty impressive aircraft, in terms of capacity, payload, range, speed and ability to land in many places.
    There was a possible re-start a couple of years back - the costs of a re-start get more expensive as the years pass, but the USAF is also interested in more. The problem is the politics in the US of spending in those congressional districts don't work out.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152


    The only way I would be happy with another consortium aircraft with the Germans would be if we (the UK) claim that we will buying 100,000 aircraft. To get the lions share of the work. Then we can renage on the buy later by threatening to collapse the project - and buy 300 or something.

    We could just do another TSR2 (Vickers front half, EE hindquarters). French/German front with British/Italian/Swedish rear. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    Given her age and diabetes, I'm amazed she's not been in strict lockdown for the last two months. I think she even attended Corbyn's final PMQs, which I was stunned to see.

    So the answer's no.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,713
    egg said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    Ha! The brain dead “mast burners” are out in force this morning 😆
    Maybe he should hold himself to account for his irresponsible policies and personally reckless behaviour.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,541
    edited April 2020

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    Having type 1 diabetes she's at very high risk with this virus. She'd be much better off self-isolating in Maidstone with Philip.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Dura_Ace said:


    The only way I would be happy with another consortium aircraft with the Germans would be if we (the UK) claim that we will buying 100,000 aircraft. To get the lions share of the work. Then we can renage on the buy later by threatening to collapse the project - and buy 300 or something.

    We could just do another TSR2 (Vickers front half, EE hindquarters). French/German front with British/Italian/Swedish rear. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
    97 civil servants with no experience in aircraft design deciding the location of a single switch.....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    And the benefit of that would be?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
    The appointment of such Tsars, as Blair liked to call them, would be more meetings, more liaison, disrupted lines of communication and accountability and a semblance of activity rather than a result. You don’t even have to know Peston thinks it’s a good idea to see it’s a bad one.
    Damien McBride summed it up - all the things he wanted the government to do were spin. Rather than actual ... actions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I don't see why a temporary PM would be necessary if the PM was to worsen but survive and simply be unable to work for a period. Are there functions solely the PM can do?

    Surely the PM just remains the PM, the Cabinet remains the Cabinet and the Cabinet make decisions until the PM recovers?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,775

    Dura_Ace said:




    And we all wish Boris a full and complete recovery.

    No "we" don't.
    A disgusting comment surely worthy of a ban by OGH.
    Is being a disgusting, contemptible, vile, subhuman nasty piece of work actually against the rules?
    What rules? Surely lowering the tone down to the cesspit level should count for a ban.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    Like, what, AIDS, malaria, TB, polio, dysentery, treatment resistant bacterial pneumonia, pollution-linked lung disease and malnutrition? To repeat a question I asked you the other day, have you ever been to any third world country?
    The Palestinian authority, parts of Mauritius which were less wealthy but it is pre existing health conditions that impact on Covid 19 death rate only which are relevant
    That's a no, then. And what on earth makes you think that you can read across from data about the first world and China to countries like India? What do you think of this argument: victims in China and Europe are predominantly yellow or white skinned; the vast majority of Indians are brown skinned; therefore India will be largely immune to the disease?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
    Caused a deal of unforeseen problems in the world of astrology, so I'm told.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
    Caused a deal of unforeseen problems in the world of astrology, so I'm told.
    You'd have thought they've have been able to see that coming...
This discussion has been closed.