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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
    Caused a deal of unforeseen problems in the world of astrology, so I'm told.
    I found it very hard to make up my mind about it. One of those situations where your heart says one thing, Uranus says another...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
    The Minister of Munitions during the Great War -- two of whom went on to become Prime Minister, Lloyd George and Churchill -- vastly improved production, procurement and logistics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Munitions

    As an aside, the shell crisis was solved when the Manchester chemist Chaim Weizmann devised a way to make acorns go bang. He was later the first President of Israel, that country not falling for the usual Oxford bluffers.

    The exercise was repeated in the second world war when Lord Beaverbrook was Minister of Production.

    I'm surprised (genuinely) that such a prominent Churchill scholar as Boris Johnson has not appointed a Covid Czar at the very least. You'd have thought Dominic Cummings would also have been in favour given the rude things he has said about Whitehall logistics.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    GIN1138 said:

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    Having type 1 diabetes she's at very high risk with this virus. She'd be much better off self-isolating in Maidstone with Philip.
    Maidenhead. Other side of London.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    HYUFD said:
    I recall that there was a Minister for Shells in WWI. Not sure whether it helped.
    Aren’t there junior Health Ministers who could focus on this?
  • On topic, David Cameron as next PM if Boris Johnson is hors de combat due to Covid-19.

    He’s experienced and he’d be there for the short term, no need for a messy leadership contest.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    ABZ said:

    nichomar said:

    Only 2% increase in new cases in Valencia today lets hope were getting there!

    The dropoff in numbers across Spain seems to be really rapid. It seems, at least superficially, that it's quite different from Italy (at least at present).
    It's very strange. They have also shot up above Italy in terms of total case numbers, but as you say seem to be showing a more rapid drop-off now. This could be because the lockdown was more efficiently applied in Spain. Italy's lockdown was pretty poorly implemented at the beginning. France went for a full lockdown that has largely been administered efficiently and they are also showing consistent signs of a slowdown in cases and deaths (the total numbers are skewed recently as they having started adding all the care home deaths, but on hospital deaths the signs are somewhat encouraging)
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
    Caused a deal of unforeseen problems in the world of astrology, so I'm told.
    Much of astrology (certain types of astrology, anyway) is based on systems thousands of years old. So in theory, getting rid of Pluto helps a bit, and being able to discount Neptune and Uranus would be even more useful.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I wonder if the more sane Brexiteers look at the recent antics of Aaron Banks, Tim Martin, Farage and co, who they held common cause and have a few quiet personal doubts.

    The sane Brexiteers never had any truck with them in the first place.
    They should have been disowned absolutely after 2016. Hey ho. Damage done. Glad they are finally ostracised.
    Yes, and who knew that what would eventually do for them would be misplaced apostrophe`s?

    (That was deliberate.)
    No ap
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    There are umpteen planets in our solar system which revolves around the sun, one of millions and billions of stars in the galaxy, and there are millions and billions of galaxies in the universe, which is just one of an infinite number of universes in the ... ???

    And here's us shutting down pubs to save a few thousand earthly lives.

    #perspective
    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....
    Poor Pluto. I am not sure it’s ever got over being reduced to dwarf status.
    Caused a deal of unforeseen problems in the world of astrology, so I'm told.
    You'd have thought they've have been able to see that coming...
    That was a joke in Roseanne iirc -- she won the lottery because her numbers included "8 planets in the solar system". More seriously, the chap who demoted Pluto also thinks there might be an actual undiscovered ninth planet.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    ydoethur said:

    Hope Boris gets well soon. Was wondering- if a temporary PM was required could Theresa come back for a bit?

    Given her age and diabetes, I'm amazed she's not been in strict lockdown for the last two months. I think she even attended Corbyn's final PMQs, which I was stunned to see.

    So the answer's no.
    Theresa (afaik) has Type 1 and clearly manages it well and is quite fit. I'd like to see the breakdown of Type 1 and Type 2 sufferers (they are very different diseases) in the figures, as Type 2 is often associated with poor lifestyle, advanced years, and obesity, and I would not be surprised if a disproportionate number of diabetics that have struggled with Coronavirus are Type 2.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    On topic, David Cameron as next PM if Boris Johnson is hors de combat due to Covid-19.

    He’s experienced and he’d be there for the short term, no need for a messy leadership contest.

    Not an MP which granted with Parliament not seating is less of a problem than it would otherwise be.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    ...

    ABZ said:

    nichomar said:

    Only 2% increase in new cases in Valencia today lets hope were getting there!

    The dropoff in numbers across Spain seems to be really rapid. It seems, at least superficially, that it's quite different from Italy (at least at present).
    It's very strange. They have also shot up above Italy in terms of total case numbers, but as you say seem to be showing a more rapid drop-off now. This could be because the lockdown was more efficiently applied in Spain. Italy's lockdown was pretty poorly implemented at the beginning. France went for a full lockdown that has largely been administered efficiently and they are also showing consistent signs of a slowdown in cases and deaths (the total numbers are skewed recently as they having started adding all the care home deaths, but on hospital deaths the signs are somewhat encouraging)
    If deaths lag a couple of weeks behind hospitalisation, the next couple of days might be bad as it was a fortnight yesterday since the parties in the parks
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    On topic, David Cameron as next PM if Boris Johnson is hors de combat due to Covid-19.

    He’s experienced and he’d be there for the short term, no need for a messy leadership contest.

    Except for the small facts that he's neither an MP nor a Lord. And the Cabinet wouldn't want him near the Brexit negotiations while the leadership contest was held.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited April 2020
    Nuevos datos de Sanidad:
    CASOS TOTALES: 13.5032
    Casos últimas 24h: 4.273
    Recuperados: 40.437
    Hospitalizados: 59.662
    Deaths 13055
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    isam said:
    Everything the FT says was already in the government's 2019 manifesto before the bat virus kicked off. Corbyn won that argument in ge2017 and Boris pinched Labour's platform.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    On topic, David Cameron as next PM if Boris Johnson is hors de combat due to Covid-19.

    He’s experienced and he’d be there for the short term, no need for a messy leadership contest.

    A council of PMs instead why not. Brown, Blair, Cameron, Major and May taking leadership together. Granted that's 4 Tories and Brown.
  • Sandpit said:

    On topic, David Cameron as next PM if Boris Johnson is hors de combat due to Covid-19.

    He’s experienced and he’d be there for the short term, no need for a messy leadership contest.

    Except for the small facts that he's neither an MP nor a Lord. And the Cabinet wouldn't want him near the Brexit negotiations while the leadership contest was held.
    Parliament isn’t sitting so not an issue plus Brexit talks are going to be postponed for a while so not an issue, as Downing Street and Raab’s former Chief of Staff have admitted.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    What was your favourite goal scored by your team?

    https://twitter.com/amylawrence71/status/1247068719672709124?s=21
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited April 2020
    Peter Hitchens has been arguing with Mike Graham for over 12 hours on twitter... and tags a 30 year old Peruvian called Luis Romero into every comment by mistake 🙈

    https://twitter.com/clarkemicah/status/1247058201629151232?s=21


  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    nichomar said:

    Nuevos datos de Sanidad:
    CASOS TOTALES: 13.5032
    Casos últimas 24h: 4.273
    Recuperados: 40.437
    Hospitalizados: 59.662
    Deaths 13055

    Those look much better figures again. Spain seems to be making the case for a very tight lockdown pretty well right now. Hope the UK is listening.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    isam said:

    What was your favourite goal scored by your team?

    https://twitter.com/amylawrence71/status/1247068719672709124?s=21

    Same ground. Same end. Different goal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1zl2Uy4WGw
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Andy_JS said:
    Now you'd have to have a heart of stone ...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Clearly wasn't prepared to share the limelight with an intellectual titan. For shame.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Chris said:

    If it is 50s and under taking up the ventilators, that will surely be because they are being given priority over 60s and older. I suspect that the NHS is keeping its head (just) above water only through ruthless targeting of resources.

    A question that is occupying me above most others atm -

    If a person with bad covid who needs hospital is denied it on scarce resource grounds would they be offered a managed painless death?

    And if so, would it take place at home?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Andy_JS said:
    Sir Keir Punched

    Been done? I’ll get my coat.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    Scott_xP said:

    Yes, I know Paul Mason went a bit mad, but the it does look like BoZo's original response to COVID-19 was all about Brexit...

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1247075759598026755

    That may not play out to his ultimate advantage...

    What is the point of the past tense went ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Worse than a crime, a blunder.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited April 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    Like, what, AIDS, malaria, TB, polio, dysentery, treatment resistant bacterial pneumonia, pollution-linked lung disease and malnutrition? To repeat a question I asked you the other day, have you ever been to any third world country?
    The Palestinian authority, parts of Mauritius which were less wealthy but it is pre existing health conditions that impact on Covid 19 death rate only which are relevant
    That's a no, then. And what on earth makes you think that you can read across from data about the first world and China to countries like India? What do you think of this argument: victims in China and Europe are predominantly yellow or white skinned; the vast majority of Indians are brown skinned; therefore India will be largely immune to the disease?
    That's a yes then as gdp per capita in the Palestinian authority is well below the global average and gdp per capita in Mauritius is also slightly below the global average too.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
    The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age, you may not like that but facts are facts
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    IshmaelZ said:

    Worse than a crime, a blunder.
    FX: sees TSE's comment; checks Wikipedia to confirm Burgon is indeed a Cambridge-educated lawyer. ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited April 2020

    Umpteen planets? Umpteen? There are only 8 now Pluto has been downgraded.....

    Pluto's gone but it's appealing the decision so I'm keeping it in there until we hear the outcome of that.

    And there are a couple of others "bubbling under".

    Therefore, right now, it has to be "umpteen".
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:



    That's a yes then as gdp per capita in the Palestinian authority is well below the global average.
    The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age, you may not like that but facts are facts

    You do this Gradgrindish facts are facts shtick but you are incapable of putting the simplest fact in its proper context. The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age IN THE POPULATIONS WE HAVE STUDIED. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    Nuevos datos de Sanidad:
    CASOS TOTALES: 13.5032
    Casos últimas 24h: 4.273
    Recuperados: 40.437
    Hospitalizados: 59.662
    Deaths 13055

    Those look much better figures again. Spain seems to be making the case for a very tight lockdown pretty well right now. Hope the UK is listening.
    Although the number of new cases are also falling in Germany and they seem to have a lockdown similar in strictness to the UK... and for the first two weeks (which will reflect the figures now) Spain's lockdown, in terms of essential businesses, was similar to the UK now.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Andy_JS said:
    Credit to Starmer on this one. I didn't think he would have the balls to do this.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Things must be improving out here just had my oncology appointment for 10 tomorrow!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Worse than a crime, a blunder.
    This has to be the greatest blunder a Labour leader has made since Tony Blair decided to invade Iraq.

    You can’t trust the judgment of Oxford educated lawyers, especially the ones that become Labour leader.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,281
    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    So much for the national interest he promised to act in favour of. Where are we going to find such a consistent source of mirth in these benighted times?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    If - which God forbid - Boris Johnson did die of coronavirus, I wonder if the Morons' Chorus would tell us it was because he was chubby, and there was still no need to worry.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,429
    Is there any legislative requirement to have a prime minister? Or is it just expedience?
    When Tony Blair tried to get rid/change the role of the Lord Chancellor I recall that there was numerous laws that needed changing.

    Can we just go without a prime minister for a time?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,346
    Off topic- Bournemouth Hospital is trialing the HIV and Malaria medication as treatment for Covid-19
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    If it is 50s and under taking up the ventilators, that will surely be because they are being given priority over 60s and older. I suspect that the NHS is keeping its head (just) above water only through ruthless targeting of resources.

    A question that is occupying me above most others atm -

    If a person with bad covid who needs hospital is denied it on scarce resource grounds would they be offered a managed painless death?

    And if so, would it take place at home?
    I posted an article yesterday about how France and Spain were looking at those exact issues.

    There were concerns about shortages of the 2 drugs that might be used to manage such an exit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    IshmaelZ said:

    That's a no, then. And what on earth makes you think that you can read across from data about the first world and China to countries like India? What do you think of this argument: victims in China and Europe are predominantly yellow or white skinned; the vast majority of Indians are brown skinned; therefore India will be largely immune to the disease?

    Indians and Africans might not be immune to the virus but they WILL be immune to having their casualties driving the global agenda when the pandemic has subsided in the West.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    If - which God forbid - Boris Johnson did die of coronavirus, I wonder if the Morons' Chorus would tell us it was because he was chubby, and there's still no need to worry.
    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    What a nightmare. Reports from many countries now about unreliable tests being developed or purchased. Sometimes it's better to take time over things.

    Of course, if Chinese tests are unreliable, what does that tell us about Chinese infection statistics?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:



    That's a yes then as gdp per capita in the Palestinian authority is well below the global average.
    The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age, you may not like that but facts are facts

    You do this Gradgrindish facts are facts shtick but you are incapable of putting the simplest fact in its proper context. The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age IN THE POPULATIONS WE HAVE STUDIED. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
    Looks pretty universal from what I have seen.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    There really should be a more formal succession process for who becomes acting PM in the event the PM dies. Doesn't have to be a long list like in the US but why don't we just make the deputy PM role an official one like the vice president, rather than something that occasionally gets used then discarded.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    What a nightmare. Reports from many countries now about unreliable tests being developed or purchased. Sometimes it's better to take time over things.

    Of course, if Chinese tests are unreliable, what does that tell us about Chinese infection statistics?
    That they can be wrong due to cockup as well as conspiracy.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    If it is 50s and under taking up the ventilators, that will surely be because they are being given priority over 60s and older. I suspect that the NHS is keeping its head (just) above water only through ruthless targeting of resources.

    A question that is occupying me above most others atm -

    If a person with bad covid who needs hospital is denied it on scarce resource grounds would they be offered a managed painless death?

    And if so, would it take place at home?
    Well, at least pneumonia was known as the "old man's friend", because it's relatively painless.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    DavidL said:

    So much for the national interest he promised to act in favour of. Where are we going to find such a consistent source of mirth in these benighted times?
    Burgon will have more time to focus on creating the Tony Benn School of Political Education.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    See Varadkar has gone back to medicine, at least one day per week. Any chance of Liam Fox...... or would that be too risky?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    The average IQ of the shadow cabinet just went through the roof.

    Whats Cambridge Graduate Burgons IQ?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    What a nightmare. Reports from many countries now about unreliable tests being developed or purchased. Sometimes it's better to take time over things.

    Of course, if Chinese tests are unreliable, what does that tell us about Chinese infection statistics?
    I just noticed the Chinese also keep finding bunches of asymptomatic cases which they don't include in the daily figures
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    <
    Actually getting more shells was about getting more machinery setup to make lathes for turning shells.

    Fascinating film about WW1 shell production for those who like that kind of thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IgHwYkZ91s
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    So Andrew Gwynne jumped before he was pushed.

    Not that anyone will miss him
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Floater said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    What a nightmare. Reports from many countries now about unreliable tests being developed or purchased. Sometimes it's better to take time over things.

    Of course, if Chinese tests are unreliable, what does that tell us about Chinese infection statistics?
    I just noticed the Chinese also keep finding bunches of asymptomatic cases which they don't include in the daily figures
    Mainland China reported 39 new coronavirus cases on Sunday, with all but one of them imported from overseas, up from the 30 reported a day earlier, as the number of asymptomatic cases also surged.

    The National Health Commission said in a statement on Monday that 78 new asymptomatic cases had been identified. Only one new death was recorded on April 5, the new data showed.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    geoffw said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:



    That's a yes then as gdp per capita in the Palestinian authority is well below the global average.
    The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age, you may not like that but facts are facts

    You do this Gradgrindish facts are facts shtick but you are incapable of putting the simplest fact in its proper context. The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age IN THE POPULATIONS WE HAVE STUDIED. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
    Looks pretty universal from what I have seen.
    He's not saying Indians in their 70s and 80s are likely to fare better than similarly aged Europeans. He's saying that there are factors that simply aren't relevant in the West (like deprivation, and malnutrition) that might turn out to be as important as age if/when the virus gets a foothold in India.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    What a nightmare. Reports from many countries now about unreliable tests being developed or purchased. Sometimes it's better to take time over things.

    Of course, if Chinese tests are unreliable, what does that tell us about Chinese infection statistics?
    I just noticed the Chinese also keep finding bunches of asymptomatic cases which they don't include in the daily figures
    Mainland China reported 39 new coronavirus cases on Sunday, with all but one of them imported from overseas, up from the 30 reported a day earlier, as the number of asymptomatic cases also surged.

    The National Health Commission said in a statement on Monday that 78 new asymptomatic cases had been identified. Only one new death was recorded on April 5, the new data showed.
    I wish they would explain how the asymptomatic cases have been detected and where they are coming from.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    There really should be a more formal succession process for who becomes acting PM in the event the PM dies. Doesn't have to be a long list like in the US but why don't we just make the deputy PM role an official one like the vice president, rather than something that occasionally gets used then discarded.

    Because that would not prevent someone in the role being used and discarded. The Vice-President is a formal part of the ticket, but as MPs only represent a constituency theres no way I can see to replicate that. The intended deputy pm might lose their seat, or a coalition might need to be formed, maybe they decide afterwards but then that person cocks up and needs to be fired.

    I don't think it is a major concern. If a party or coalition has a majority it wont take them long to indicate who should be chosen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2020

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    When he fully recovers Boris might be even more determined to hold China to account.

    He will have been close to the abyss and it will be personal.

    'Hold China to account' - Are you suggesting it was deliberate?
    This could open a whole can of worms. Some may want to hold the UK to account for slavery or the industrial revolution.
    China are responsible for failing to put their own house in order, lying about it and then spreading propaganda and misinformation worldwide.

    The UK stuff is a lot of left-wing piss and wind.
    Just how eaxactly will Boris 'hold China to account'?
    Coordinating foreign and economic policy across the West and with India.

    This might well depend on Trump losing the White House in November though.
    Not necessarily, Macron, Abe, Modi and Trudeau have shown they will work with Trump when required
    India accounts for just 2% of China's foreign trade (3% of exports and 1% of imports - which just emphasises how little India has of anything that China wants or needs).

    But it is, tragically, currently led by an extreme far-right anti-democratic ethno-nationalist, so maybe that is why you are often so keen on India?
    India, more so than anywhere else, is going to be completely screwed by this virus.

    They can't enforce a lockdown, and they have some of the most densely populated cities on earth - with no running water or supermarkets, nor anything close to sufficient medical facilities.
    Average life expectancy in India though is only 55 compared to 81 here and it is only over 80s who have a more than 10% death rate from Covid 19.

    The death rate for 50 to 59 year olds is only 1.3% by contrast
    That the average life expectancy in India is only 55, suggests that many people in their 40s and 50s are already seriously ill.

    It's only over 80s with a high death rate in Western countries with good medical systems - if this goes around India as it has everywhere else, it's not unreasonable to expect tens of millions of deaths.
    It is high BMI and diabetes and cancer and heart conditions that increase your chances of dying from Covid 19, again those tend to be more diseases of age and of rich western nations and few Indians are obese
    More than anything else, it's a lack of sufficient medical resources that determines the death rate. India is very much third world in this regard.

    I stand by my comments from weeks ago, that India will most likely have the highest death toll of any country when the virus is finally under control.
    You only tend to need medical treatment on average if you are old or obese or with pre existing health conditions anyway
    If - which God forbid - Boris Johnson did die of coronavirus, I wonder if the Morons' Chorus would tell us it was because he was chubby, and there's still no need to worry.
    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21
    Typical twitter. The sickest patients, the ones that have died as a majority cohort, are those who are older, ie 70+, with pre-existing conditions.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404


    As an aside, the shell crisis was solved when the Manchester chemist Chaim Weizmann devised a way to make acorns go bang.

    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/what-is-designation/heritage-highlights/conkers-help-win-fww/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Use of coal at six of the top Chinese power producers is back up to near 2018 and 2019 levels:


  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Is there any legislative requirement to have a prime minister? Or is it just expedience?
    When Tony Blair tried to get rid/change the role of the Lord Chancellor I recall that there was numerous laws that needed changing.

    Can we just go without a prime minister for a time?

    I think that, legally, it's the various individual Cabinet ministers that are required and the Cabinet collectively (I think legally there's a whole bunch of appointments that are colloquially thought of as being the PM's to make, but even there the appointments are made by the Crown on the advice of her Ministers, so the Cabinet would suffice).

    However, without a figurehead exercising executive control there would probably be a damaging loss of confidence.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Andy_JS said:

    The average IQ of the shadow cabinet just went through the roof.

    Whats Burgons IQ?
    You seem to get really irate at such comments. Do you not think people should be able to speculate about the intellectual capacity of senior politicians without access to an actual IQ test? It's fine, Raab for one gets it too (though not so much as Burgon)
  • DavidL said:

    So much for the national interest he promised to act in favour of. Where are we going to find such a consistent source of mirth in these benighted times?
    No Abbott and Burgon in the shadow cabinet, turns out Covid-19 isn’t the worst thing to happen to us in 2020.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Endillion said:

    geoffw said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:



    That's a yes then as gdp per capita in the Palestinian authority is well below the global average.
    The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age, you may not like that but facts are facts

    You do this Gradgrindish facts are facts shtick but you are incapable of putting the simplest fact in its proper context. The biggest factor in terms of likelihood to die from Covid 19 is age IN THE POPULATIONS WE HAVE STUDIED. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
    Looks pretty universal from what I have seen.
    He's not saying Indians in their 70s and 80s are likely to fare better than similarly aged Europeans. He's saying that there are factors that simply aren't relevant in the West (like deprivation, and malnutrition) that might turn out to be as important as age if/when the virus gets a foothold in India.
    I think the severity by age gradient is similar everywhere. Holding other factors constant of course.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    We can add Premier League football players to the list of people making idiots of themselves this week, refusing pay cuts even as non-playing staff of the clubs get furloughed. The PFA are seriously trying to argue that the clubs not paying their seven figure salaries would deprive the NHS of tax revenues!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/05/pfa-calls-full-financial-disclosure-clubs-hits-back-matt-hancocks/

    Contrast with the Premier League rugby players, who have agreed to pay cuts and furloughs, and of course the F1 teams who have donated huge resources to help the fight.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    kinabalu said:

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
    It is twitter responding to a 50+ yr old man who is PM having the virus.

    As you note, the vast majority who have gone on to die, let's call them "the sickest" have been 70+ yrs old.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
    It is twitter responding to a 50+ yr old man who is PM having the virus.

    As you note, the vast majority who have gone on to die, let's call them "the sickest" have been 70+ yrs old.
    It's a Canadian writing about his experiences on an ICU ward and has nothing to do with the PM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

    None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.
    Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf."

    (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-millions-of-coronavirus-antibody-tests-but-they-don-t-work-j7kb55g89

    They work for China's purposes - of not wanting to find people with Covid-19....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    kinabalu said:

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
    The evolution of the Italian statistics on the age distribution of fatalities does suggest that younger patients are taking much longer to die. A tiny proportion of the dead were below 60 early on. A significantly larger proportion now.

    If younger people take longer to die, it would imply they account for a larger proportion of the patients in ICU than might be expected, and might partly explain comments like the one quoted.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The average IQ of the shadow cabinet just went through the roof.

    Whats Burgons IQ?
    You seem to get really irate at such comments. Do you not think people should be able to speculate about the intellectual capacity of senior politicians without access to an actual IQ test? It's fine, Raab for one gets it too (though not so much as Burgon)
    Do you think the Cambridge graduate has a low IQ? Or for that matter the Oxford graduate to whom you also refer?

    I dont think they have and therefore would never make such a stupid comment
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Sandpit said:

    We can add Premier League football players to the list of people making idiots of themselves this week, refusing pay cuts even as non-playing staff of the clubs get furloughed. The PFA are seriously trying to argue that the clubs not paying their seven figure salaries would deprive the NHS of tax revenues!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/05/pfa-calls-full-financial-disclosure-clubs-hits-back-matt-hancocks/

    Contrast with the Premier League rugby players, who have agreed to pay cuts and furloughs, and of course the F1 teams who have donated huge resources to help the fight.

    I'm still baffled more clubs havent gone for a PR boost wherein even if players are receiving full salary they decide to donate half of it or a third or whatever to charitable causes.

    For the big clubs it would make no difference to the players and engender hugely positive press. No, footballers shouldn't be scapegoats, but being cynical itd be easy to look great right now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited April 2020
    Floater said:

    I posted an article yesterday about how France and Spain were looking at those exact issues.

    There were concerns about shortages of the 2 drugs that might be used to manage such an exit.

    OK, right, thanks. Because this will be important if not all can be treated.

    I wonder if it would be openly acknowledged or thought best not to?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
    It is twitter responding to a 50+ yr old man who is PM having the virus.

    As you note, the vast majority who have gone on to die, let's call them "the sickest" have been 70+ yrs old.
    It's a Canadian writing about his experiences on an ICU ward and has nothing to do with the PM.
    So why has it, of all the millions of tweets out there on Covid-19, been posted on here?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    edited April 2020
    Sandpit said:

    We can add Premier League football players to the list of people making idiots of themselves this week, refusing pay cuts even as non-playing staff of the clubs get furloughed. The PFA are seriously trying to argue that the clubs not paying their seven figure salaries would deprive the NHS of tax revenues!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/04/05/pfa-calls-full-financial-disclosure-clubs-hits-back-matt-hancocks/

    Contrast with the Premier League rugby players, who have agreed to pay cuts and furloughs, and of course the F1 teams who have donated huge resources to help the fight.

    Footballers taking a pay cut benefits the club owners, not the ground staff, kit-washers or general public. It would be millionaires subsidising billionaires.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Andrew Gwynne steps down from Shadow cabinet.

    He is tired and bruised by the GE 2019 experiences (when he was campaign co-coordinator even if he now says he has been sidelined during the last phase)

    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1247099675301367809?s=20
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    https://www.barrons.com/news/austria-could-start-loosening-lockdown-from-april-14-chancellor-01586165703

    "The aim is that from April 14... smaller shops up to a size of 400 square metres, as well as hardware and garden stores can open again, under strict security conditions of course," Kurz said at a press conference.

    He added that if the government's timetable goes to plan, larger shops will reopen on 1 May and from mid-May hotels, restaurants and other services could also start to open their doors again in stages.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The average IQ of the shadow cabinet just went through the roof.

    Whats Burgons IQ?
    You seem to get really irate at such comments. Do you not think people should be able to speculate about the intellectual capacity of senior politicians without access to an actual IQ test? It's fine, Raab for one gets it too (though not so much as Burgon)
    Do you think the Cambridge graduate has a low IQ? Or for that matter the Oxford graduate to whom you also refer?

    I dont think they have and therefore would never make such a stupid comment
    I suppose it's all relative, but I'd have thought we'd all have met some pretty unintelligent Oxbridge graduates.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    kle4 said:

    There really should be a more formal succession process for who becomes acting PM in the event the PM dies. Doesn't have to be a long list like in the US but why don't we just make the deputy PM role an official one like the vice president, rather than something that occasionally gets used then discarded.

    Because that would not prevent someone in the role being used and discarded. The Vice-President is a formal part of the ticket, but as MPs only represent a constituency theres no way I can see to replicate that. The intended deputy pm might lose their seat, or a coalition might need to be formed, maybe they decide afterwards but then that person cocks up and needs to be fired.

    I don't think it is a major concern. If a party or coalition has a majority it wont take them long to indicate who should be chosen.
    As usual, there is an xkcd for this:
    https://xkcd.com/2003/

    I wonder if #18 would be higher up in the UK equivalent version, or lower?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Is there any legislative requirement to have a prime minister? Or is it just expedience?
    When Tony Blair tried to get rid/change the role of the Lord Chancellor I recall that there was numerous laws that needed changing.

    Can we just go without a prime minister for a time?

    There has to be a PM to lead the government, although no formal requirement that he be fit and healthy.

    If he was to resign or pass on, the Cabinet would need to meet as soon as possible, to select a successor to be appointed by HMQ.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    Which tells me you have not the slightest clue about the vast gulf between the Austrian numbers and the British ones.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I posted this tweet this morning. It’s worth reposting:

    https://twitter.com/shanxonline/status/1246976779400753155?s=21

    Right. And I've read plenty similar from the front line. A great many of the very sick on vents are middle aged men.

    But how does this square up with the data that those who die are mainly old?

    Does it mean that lots of the older ones are dying BEFORE ventilator stage, either because they go quickly or because they are being denied it on scarcity and prioritization grounds?
    It is twitter responding to a 50+ yr old man who is PM having the virus.

    As you note, the vast majority who have gone on to die, let's call them "the sickest" have been 70+ yrs old.
    It's a Canadian writing about his experiences on an ICU ward and has nothing to do with the PM.
    So why has it, of all the millions of tweets out there on Covid-19, been posted on here?
    Because of what it might suggest about the PM's prognosis, but the original tweet wasn't about him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The average IQ of the shadow cabinet just went through the roof.

    Whats Burgons IQ?
    You seem to get really irate at such comments. Do you not think people should be able to speculate about the intellectual capacity of senior politicians without access to an actual IQ test? It's fine, Raab for one gets it too (though not so much as Burgon)
    Do you think the Cambridge graduate has a low IQ? Or for that matter the Oxford graduate to whom you also refer?

    I dont think they have and therefore would never make such a stupid comment
    I dont know nor do I care what peoples IQ is. I do think many people, intelligent and otherwise, in public life can and do say very stupid things sometimes. And I dont think there is a problem in people mocking public figures for saying stupid things.

    Nor does being intelligent prevent people from being simultaneously pretty stupid, particularly outside of an area of expertise. And therefore I think getting huffy about the honour of oxbridge graduates being insulted for their intellect is remarkably silly. Of course there will be graduates of oxbridge who reveal themselves to be pretty stupid on any number of things.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Chris said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    Which tells me you have not the slightest clue about the vast gulf between the Austrian numbers and the British ones.
    Your post tells me you haven't read the article.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343
    Are we heading for a world where sane political centrists could actually have a choice of as many as two political parties who could realistically form a government? We are living through a political revolution.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    https://www.barrons.com/news/austria-could-start-loosening-lockdown-from-april-14-chancellor-01586165703

    "The aim is that from April 14... smaller shops up to a size of 400 square metres, as well as hardware and garden stores can open again, under strict security conditions of course," Kurz said at a press conference.

    He added that if the government's timetable goes to plan, larger shops will reopen on 1 May and from mid-May hotels, restaurants and other services could also start to open their doors again in stages.

    Good news for Austria.

    I think us being a week or so behind their timetable is optimistic.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    https://www.barrons.com/news/austria-could-start-loosening-lockdown-from-april-14-chancellor-01586165703

    "The aim is that from April 14... smaller shops up to a size of 400 square metres, as well as hardware and garden stores can open again, under strict security conditions of course," Kurz said at a press conference.

    He added that if the government's timetable goes to plan, larger shops will reopen on 1 May and from mid-May hotels, restaurants and other services could also start to open their doors again in stages.

    Encouraging.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    https://www.barrons.com/news/austria-could-start-loosening-lockdown-from-april-14-chancellor-01586165703

    "The aim is that from April 14... smaller shops up to a size of 400 square metres, as well as hardware and garden stores can open again, under strict security conditions of course," Kurz said at a press conference.

    He added that if the government's timetable goes to plan, larger shops will reopen on 1 May and from mid-May hotels, restaurants and other services could also start to open their doors again in stages.

    Good news for Austria.

    I think us being a week or so behind their timetable is optimistic.
    It gives us a reliable source of data as well wrt a possible second wave on easing of restrictions.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    Burgon but not burgotten. Please.

    At a stretch, Burgon bur got burgotten?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    Socky said:

    <
    Actually getting more shells was about getting more machinery setup to make lathes for turning shells.

    Fascinating film about WW1 shell production for those who like that kind of thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IgHwYkZ91s
    One thing the Americans bought to mass production which you don't see here, was the use of automatic tooling - lathes that could cut the profiles without manual intervention.

    Remarkable what you can do with cams etc. Consider that this problem - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welin_breech_block - often stumps modern machinists. As in "How did they do that?". In fact was a very special custom lathe with a kick out....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    TGOHF666 said:

    Chris said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    Which tells me you have not the slightest clue about the vast gulf between the Austrian numbers and the British ones.
    Your post tells me you haven't read the article.
    Don't give me that bullshit. The article says nothing about the UK.

    Just look at the bloody figures. Maximum number of daily deaths in Austria ever recorded: 22.

    How can anyone be so stupid?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Austria have announced the beginning of the end of their lockdown.

    Should imagine we will be a week or so behind this timeline.

    https://www.barrons.com/news/austria-could-start-loosening-lockdown-from-april-14-chancellor-01586165703

    "The aim is that from April 14... smaller shops up to a size of 400 square metres, as well as hardware and garden stores can open again, under strict security conditions of course," Kurz said at a press conference.

    He added that if the government's timetable goes to plan, larger shops will reopen on 1 May and from mid-May hotels, restaurants and other services could also start to open their doors again in stages.

    Good news for Austria.

    I think us being a week or so behind their timetable is optimistic.
    It gives us a reliable source of data as well wrt a possible second wave on easing of restrictions.
    True
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