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Well, looking at Bergamo, the funeral directors and coffin makers cannot cope. There is a a massive increase in the overall death rate.isam said:
Yes, I think there’s a big chance most of the people who have died would have died of something else anyway. I’d really like to see the number of deaths by flu and pneumonia this year compared with others. Does 2020 Flu+pneumonia+corona = flu+pneumonia in other years?Casino_Royale said:
Ah. That might explain it.isam said:Someone trying to answer the question I keep asking. How many would have died anyway? Apparently the reason Germany’s death rate is so low is they only treat it as death by Coronavirus if they didn’t already have flu or pneumonia etc, and almost all of Italian deaths were pretty gravely ill
https://twitter.com/bipolarrunner/status/1241300450768572417?s=21
https://twitter.com/declamare/status/1241277424500957184?s=21
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
If that's true then that does raise some interesting questions about strategy.0 -
Yorkshire should be fine then. Nobody there gets beyond a slight nod and the surly uninterested enquiry of "'ow do...."'Scott_xP said:Someone recommended this as the definitive text on what is happening
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rules-Contagion-Outbreaks-Infectious-Diseases-ebook/dp/B07JLSHT7M/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1YX73EF1AJINJ&dchild=1&keywords=epidemics&qid=1584788568&sprefix=epidemics,aps,172&sr=8-2
They were right.
Interactions in schools and at home typically involve physical contact, and encounters that occur on a daily basis often last longer than an hour. Even so, the overall number of interactions can vary a lot between locations. Hong Kong residents typically have physical contact with around five other people each day; the UK is similar, but in Italy, the average is ten.[15]
Kucharski, Adam. The Rules of Contagion (Wellcome Collection) . Profile. Kindle Edition.0 -
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:1 -
Not sure but possibly right. All the same but a bit (or a lot) poorer.IanB2 said:It’s human nature. And Is why 75% of the “the world will never be the same” comments and articles we’ll all be reading this year will, once the pandemic has receded, turn out to be bunkum.
Unless we get another black swan while this one is still on. A San Francisco earthquake maybe.
If Elon Musk is right that we are a simulation being played by higher beings, perhaps they have got bored and decided to spice the game up a little.0 -
You what?Alistair said:
Yes, I'm sure William scoured the North of his unified nation for shits and giggles.Casino_Royale said:
England is an ancient nation of well over 1,000 years in age. It's one of the oldest polities in Europe.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't think nationalism of any flavour is great. I wouldn't vote for the SNP or Scottish independence if I had the opportunity to - I am a federalist. But people feel better and secure when they know who they are, and my point was about identity. Scotland has worked hard to push an identity. The English identity is what? Gammony drunks? Metropolitan liberals? The two extremes largely hate each other.Casino_Royale said:
So Scottish nationalism is great but English nationalism is a complete no no?RochdalePioneers said:
Nothing fixed, but was looking at houses up near my brother in Aberdeenshire. Again, its not hate. But you can't deny that the level of stupid in England really has dialled up to 11. I hear commentators talk about British exceptionalism - its *English* exceptionalism. We're arrogant / stupid enough to think the rules don't apply to us as we're Better than everyone else. Morons voted for Brexit to stop freedom of movement then moan when their freedom of movement is stopped. Apparently the rules are only for foreigners...Casino_Royale said:
Where were you moving to?RochdalePioneers said:
I wouldn't describe it as hate. More like pity. England used to be something. Look what we've reduced ourselves to. As for moving, plans were in progress, now delayed thanks to Coronavirus.Casino_Royale said:
If you hate your own country so much why don't you go and live somewhere else?RochdalePioneers said:
People are already losing their shit. And this clearly is just an interim stage before the actual lock-down kicks in. I'm not sure that a society as pig ignorant and self-centred as 2020 England will cope (the other less shit nations in the UK will be fine). Expect Peter Hitchens pieces in the Hate Mail telling people that Boris is a Fascist and that we should resist authoritarianism. Feral parents round here will still be drunk letting their feral kids out to create havoc, and that's before the Facebook rumors kick in that Other People have something You haven't got and the riots start.nichomar said:
You are not really locked down though are you.? You can go to B&Q buy a new bed, go to Primart, take a car ride in the country, have a house party etc etc you have a long way to go to true lockdownCasino_Royale said:I just wonder if there are alternative strategies to locking down the whole country.
You ain't seen nothing yet...
I'm not remotely saying Scotland is perfect or immune to our madness. But from what I can see its better. And I think a decent part of that is that they kind of have a mojo about what it is to be Scottish. That was the SNP project more than anything else. England could fix itself, but I think that it will need regionalism as a solution as "England" is at best an amorphous blob of different kingdoms glued together that don't entirely get on. The nice thing about Yorkshire as opposed to my native Lancashire is that there is a proper regional identity. Same in Cornwall. More of that.
Right. Got it.
England's basic problem is that it doesn't know what England or English is. We confuse England for Britain as if they are interchangeable. We don't even have a national anthem and our flag has become synonymous with racists and drunks. We propagandise people who aren't very bright with messages that the schools are against them and then wonder why educational attainment is so low.
None of these are "nationalism". Brexit was a vote of the lost recognising they were lost wanting to forge a new identity of their own. I think my epiphany - having voted for a different kind of Brexit to what we are/were heading for - was that the Britain/England they have been told to want looks repulsive.
I think your views on Englishness are getting bound up in your hyperemotionally charged politics and combining with some kneejerk snobbery as well.
If you're referring to William the Conqueror (Norman French) then he brutully put down a rebellion against Norman rule in Anglo-Saxon after the conquest.
That was terrible, and about 150 years after England became a unified polity.
I'm not sure what your point is.0 -
https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1241052609122885633
Suspect these words will become a key quote for the historians.0 -
Of course there is. It's one of the last gasp memes of those who have got this consistently and utterly wrong.No_Offence_Alan said:
Well, looking at Bergamo, the funeral directors and coffin makers cannot cope. There is a a massive increase in the overall death rate.isam said:
Yes, I think there’s a big chance most of the people who have died would have died of something else anyway. I’d really like to see the number of deaths by flu and pneumonia this year compared with others. Does 2020 Flu+pneumonia+corona = flu+pneumonia in other years?Casino_Royale said:
Ah. That might explain it.isam said:Someone trying to answer the question I keep asking. How many would have died anyway? Apparently the reason Germany’s death rate is so low is they only treat it as death by Coronavirus if they didn’t already have flu or pneumonia etc, and almost all of Italian deaths were pretty gravely ill
https://twitter.com/bipolarrunner/status/1241300450768572417?s=21
https://twitter.com/declamare/status/1241277424500957184?s=21
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
If that's true then that does raise some interesting questions about strategy.0 -
How do you explain the Gordon Brown adminstration then?Beibheirli_C said:
Surely the English have been running the show since well before the Act of Union? The UK Parliament has always been composed of 3/4 English seats and the rest of the country gets maybe up to 25%.williamglenn said:Do you think the root cause could be a form of British nationalism that denies English nationhood? Before the recent fetishisation of "the UK", we knew very well what England was.
So any wounds are likely self-inflicted...
Scottish MPs occupied several key offices of state and ministries.1 -
5000 new cases total 25000, 1326 fatalities in Spain0
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Right. You've changed the subject.ydoethur said:
Oh dear goodness. The Dark Ages.Casino_Royale said:
I said one of the oldest. Not the oldest. But you're quibbling about 80-90 years in the dark ages.ydoethur said:
The first King of England was Aethelstan, 924-939. That would still put it behind France, which effectively goes back to the Frankish empire of Charlemagne and more definitively to Verdun in 840.Casino_Royale said:
England is an ancient nation of well over 1,000 years in age. It's one of the oldest polities in Europe.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't think nationalism of any flavour is great. I wouldn't vote for the SNP or Scottish independence if I had the opportunity to - I am a federalist. But people feel better and secure when they know who they are, and my point was about identity. Scotland has worked hard to push an identity. The English identity is what? Gammony drunks? Metropolitan liberals? The two extremes largely hate each other.Casino_Royale said:
So Scottish nationalism is great but English nationalism is a complete no no?RochdalePioneers said:
Nothing fixed, but was looking at houses up near my brother in Aberdeenshire. Again, its not hate. But you can't deny that the level of stupid in England really has dialled up to 11. I hear commentators talk about British exceptionalism - its *English* exceptionalism. We're arrogant / stupid enough to think the rules don't apply to us as we're Better than everyone else. Morons voted for Brexit to stop freedom of movement then moan when their freedom of movement is stopped. Apparently the rules are only for foreigners...Casino_Royale said:
Where were you moving to?RochdalePioneers said:
I wouldn't describe it as hate. More like pity. England used to be something. Look what we've reduced ourselves to. As for moving, plans were in progress, now delayed thanks to Coronavirus.Casino_Royale said:
If you hate your own country so much why don't you go and live somewhere else?RochdalePioneers said:
People are already losing their shit. And this clearly is just an interim stage before the actual lock-down kicks in. I'm not sure that a society as pig ignorant and self-centred as 2020 England will cope (the other less shit nations in the UK will be fine). Expect Peter Hitchens pieces in the Hate Mail telling people that Boris is a Fascist and that we should resist authoritarianism. Feral parents round here will still be drunk letting their feral kids out to create havoc, and that's before the Facebook rumors kick in that Other People have something You haven't got and the riots start.nichomar said:
You are not really locked down though are you.? You can go to B&Q buy a new bed, go to Primart, take a car ride in the country, have a house party etc etc you have a long way to go to true lockdownCasino_Royale said:I just wonder if there are alternative strategies to locking down the whole country.
You ain't seen nothing yet...
I'm not remotely saying Scotland is perfect or immune to our madness. But from what I can see its better. And I think a decent part of that is that they kind of have a mojo about what it is to be Scottish. That was the SNP project more than anything else. England could fix itself, but I think that it will need regionalism as a solution as "England" is at best an amorphous blob of different kingdoms glued together that don't entirely get on. The nice thing about Yorkshire as opposed to my native Lancashire is that there is a proper regional identity. Same in Cornwall. More of that.
Right. Got it.
England's basic problem is that it doesn't know what England or English is. We confuse England for Britain as if they are interchangeable. We don't even have a national anthem and our flag has become synonymous with racists and drunks. We propagandise people who aren't very bright with messages that the schools are against them and then wonder why educational attainment is so low.
None of these are "nationalism". Brexit was a vote of the lost recognising they were lost wanting to forge a new identity of their own. I think my epiphany - having voted for a different kind of Brexit to what we are/were heading for - was that the Britain/England they have been told to want looks repulsive.
I think your views on Englishness are getting bound up in your hyperemotionally charged politics and combining with some kneejerk snobbery as well.
It doesn't refute England's claim to historic and longstanding nationhood.
That’s a phrase looooong out of use.
Edward Gibbon‘s personal foibles masquerading as history were perhaps a more apt field for the phrase ‘the dark ages.’
So I'll take that as you agreeing with me on the point then.1 -
We'll take the French approach - ignore the shit we don't like.rottenborough said:
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:0 -
Mr. Doethur, not sure I agree with the modern view that Dark Ages is an outdated term. Falling populations, political atomisation, declining trade, increasing war, sounds quite Dark Agey.0
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Yeah me too. What a stupid thing to do.rottenborough said:
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:0 -
Best of luck to the 3 of you and your families. Hopefully you'll be through the worst of it before the peak hits.Mysticrose said:
We are indeed. Would it be appropriate to keep a little list: not for voyeuristic reasons but so we can keep one another in our thoughts, send good wishes and hear first hand about progress?rottenborough said:
Yes, best wishes.Charles said:
Good luck and best wishesMaxPB said:Woken up with a pretty bad cough and a bit of a high temperature today. Also lines up that I went through an airport around a week ago.
Think I've got the plague.
Is it me are we seeing quite a few posters saying they probably have this now?
By my reckoning we've had messages concerning themselves or immediate family from Charles, GideonWise and now Max PB1 -
Kamala Harris. Next POTUS. 250/1
DYOR.0 -
Casino_Royale said:
How do you explain the Gordon Brown adminstration then?Beibheirli_C said:
Surely the English have been running the show since well before the Act of Union? The UK Parliament has always been composed of 3/4 English seats and the rest of the country gets maybe up to 25%.williamglenn said:Do you think the root cause could be a form of British nationalism that denies English nationhood? Before the recent fetishisation of "the UK", we knew very well what England was.
So any wounds are likely self-inflicted...
Scottish MPs occupied several key offices of state and ministries.
That does not alter the fact that the bulk of MPs were English as was a large number of his cabinet.0 -
What are they going to do? Kick us out?rottenborough said:
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:0 -
We are all British - time for parochial nonsense to be put in the bin.Beibheirli_C said:Casino_Royale said:
How do you explain the Gordon Brown adminstration then?Beibheirli_C said:
Surely the English have been running the show since well before the Act of Union? The UK Parliament has always been composed of 3/4 English seats and the rest of the country gets maybe up to 25%.williamglenn said:Do you think the root cause could be a form of British nationalism that denies English nationhood? Before the recent fetishisation of "the UK", we knew very well what England was.
So any wounds are likely self-inflicted...
Scottish MPs occupied several key offices of state and ministries.
That does not alter the fact that the bulk of MPs were English as was a large number of his cabinet.1 -
Fine us 100 billion Euros......noneoftheabove said:
What are they going to do? Kick us out?rottenborough said:
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:0 -
This question is unsawnser able until 2021. I think that waiting until then to get the data in before we act on it is unacceptable.isam said:
Yes, I think there’s a big chance most of the people who have died would have died of something else anyway. I’d really like to see the number of deaths by flu and pneumonia this year compared with others. Does 2020 Flu+pneumonia+corona = flu+pneumonia in other years?Casino_Royale said:
Ah. That might explain it.isam said:Someone trying to answer the question I keep asking. How many would have died anyway? Apparently the reason Germany’s death rate is so low is they only treat it as death by Coronavirus if they didn’t already have flu or pneumonia etc, and almost all of Italian deaths were pretty gravely ill
https://twitter.com/bipolarrunner/status/1241300450768572417?s=21
https://twitter.com/declamare/status/1241277424500957184?s=21
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
If that's true then that does raise some interesting questions about strategy.
Here is some data that we can say.
The first Covid death in Italy was on 21st Feb. That's 29 days ago. SInce then there has been 4031 Covid deaths.
I don't know how many "would have died anyway" but it does seem like a number much higher than flu deaths in a 4 week period.0 -
Once people have stopped hoarding, won't supermarket demand fall below 'normal'? Yesterday Aldi was full of food and relatively empty of people.Gallowgate said:
How many graduates do you think Apple takes in the UK?HYUFD said:
There will be extra graduate positions at supermarkets yes and graduate recruitment at companies like Vodaphone and Apple or in the NHS will be unaffected either longer term, so your original statement that 'graduates are screwed' was misleadingGallowgate said:
What point are you trying to make here? That there might be maybe, an extra 5 graduate positions at Tesco or Sainsburys head office?HYUFD said:
You can hold interviews over the phone, Skype etc. This is the 21st century.Gallowgate said:
How’s that going to work if most of their head office is working from home? How are they going to hold assessment centres? Group interviews?HYUFD said:
Given the increasing numbers of orders they are having to manage and the increasing revenues they are making they almost certainly will be increasing them actuallyGallowgate said:
We don’t know if their head office grad schemes will continue as normal. I’m guessing probably not. They almost certainly are not going to be vastly increasing their graduate intake are they?HYUFD said:
Duh, Tesco and Sainsburys both have graduate management schemes, indeed I know a Cambridge maths graduate who works at Tesco head officeGallowgate said:
Working as temporary shop floor staff at Tesco or Sainsburys is really going to pay off that student loan. Good grief...HYUFD said:
Not if they join Tesco or Sainsburys or M & S, the NHS, the police service, the armed forces, the civil service, Google, Apple, Vodaphone and other organisations little affected by this crisis or even seeing a growth in demandGallowgate said:I’m hearing that Deloitte have cancelled all graduate recruitment this year. If true, no doubt other firms will follow.
This year’s university graduates are screwed.
Are they anticipating a drop-off in revenue once the crisis is over and everyone has tons of food?
I think the answer is likely not. Despite increased revenues, how many extra “graduate managers” do you think they need?
We are also not yet at full lockdown either so you can hold face to face meetings then get people working from home with conference calls etc after if needed.
Given supermarkets are making vast revenues and profits at the moment as people are staying in longer and need more food etc that will continue for some time to come and indeed even once the crisis is over peoppe will still need food.
So yes the answer is they likely will and graduate recruitment by Tesco etc will be strong and resiliant for a long time to come, even if they need even more graduate managers now to manage the complex supply chain challenges they are facing etc0 -
I've just been faffing about in the garage and found a 3 - pack of 'nice' soap that Wor Lass received as a Christmas gift and was going to donate to a charity shop. Well sod that - it's in the bathroom now. I don't care that my hands will smell of rose blossom.1
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Absolutely. Best wishes to all posters and their loved ones. Virtual communities have never been so important, and while we might bicker, we are all facing this together.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Best of luck to the 3 of you and your families. Hopefully you'll be through the worst of it before the peak hits.Mysticrose said:
We are indeed. Would it be appropriate to keep a little list: not for voyeuristic reasons but so we can keep one another in our thoughts, send good wishes and hear first hand about progress?rottenborough said:
Yes, best wishes.Charles said:
Good luck and best wishesMaxPB said:Woken up with a pretty bad cough and a bit of a high temperature today. Also lines up that I went through an airport around a week ago.
Think I've got the plague.
Is it me are we seeing quite a few posters saying they probably have this now?
By my reckoning we've had messages concerning themselves or immediate family from Charles, GideonWise and now Max PB3 -
Friday before last I said that one of my mates had told me he went out and the pubs and restaurant were rammed. I decided to stay in, and didn’t bother meeting him for a pint as planned on the Sunday. He’s been in bed with the lurgi since Weds, and three of the others he was with have self isolated0
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Is this EU story actually true or fake news?
Sounds like the Danish scheme was approved in 24 hrs despite also being against the rules. If this is just a journalist realising its against some rules that can be waived its fake news and pathetic journalism trying to sow division at a time like this.
I dont have access to the Times so not sure if the EU are genuinely trying to stop the aid or someone is just quoting existing rules which are already being waived in the exceptional circumstances?0 -
The wisdom of my father "the more worthwhile a job is the less you get paid". This was not said out of Jealuosy as he had a good enough job at British Telecom Head Office.kinabalu said:
Allow me. It's good -felix said:In other news Owen Jones posting crap about the class war on Twitter. Can't be arsed to link.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/21/undervalued-heroes-coronavirus-crisis-cleaners-supermarket-workers
Redux. Most essential jobs are low paid. Most highly paid jobs are not essential.
A truth revealed (if one did not know it already) by coronavirus.1 -
There is that.No_Offence_Alan said:
Well, looking at Bergamo, the funeral directors and coffin makers cannot cope. There is a a massive increase in the overall death rate.isam said:
Yes, I think there’s a big chance most of the people who have died would have died of something else anyway. I’d really like to see the number of deaths by flu and pneumonia this year compared with others. Does 2020 Flu+pneumonia+corona = flu+pneumonia in other years?Casino_Royale said:
Ah. That might explain it.isam said:Someone trying to answer the question I keep asking. How many would have died anyway? Apparently the reason Germany’s death rate is so low is they only treat it as death by Coronavirus if they didn’t already have flu or pneumonia etc, and almost all of Italian deaths were pretty gravely ill
https://twitter.com/bipolarrunner/status/1241300450768572417?s=21
https://twitter.com/declamare/status/1241277424500957184?s=21
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
If that's true then that does raise some interesting questions about strategy.0 -
Absolutely not. Bess was canny and decisive, but ultimately a risk taker where appropriate.Casino_Royale said:
The CofE is a classic fudge.Charles said:
Nah, Anglicans are definitely members of the "universal Catholic church". Not protesting at all.MattW said:
The phrase for Protestants (and Anglicans get to be both Protestants and Catholics, naturally :-) ) is 'in remembrance'. So I would go with memorial not metaphor, that is still a means of grace.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The Church of England position on the eucharist, insofar as it has one, is that the wafer and wine represent the body and blood of Christ. It is a metaphor, if you like. The Roman Catholic doctrine, known as transubstantiation, is that the wafer and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ. That is the crucial point.RobD said:
Yes, but you aren't actually doing it, are you?Beibheirli_C said:
The church maintains that is exactly what you are doing. Now as an atheist, I personally believe that they are just much munching sub-standard bread and probably 2nd rate wine, but the message, to me, is one step from promoting cannibalism.RobD said:
I doubt it, unless they were actually eating someone.Beibheirli_C said:
"... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."HYUFD said:
In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a wholeBeibheirli_C said:
Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.Pulpstar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxErcs1000 said:
I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.another_richard said:
How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?rcs1000 said:
Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.Jonathan said:
How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?FrancisUrquhart said:
They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.Jonathan said:What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?
That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.
Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation
I wonder if Theresa May would have got on with Elizabeth 1st.
May is more like James I.0 -
Oh, I am sure that it has. What is the effect of this pandemic if not the obliteration of order in our world? It is like a thorough shuffle of a sorted pack of cards. Or like a wave washing over a sandcastle leaving a disarray of grains of sand. As people have said, tomorrow's world will not be the status quo ante. Much energy (enthalpy) will be spent to restore the myriad of damaged structures (human, social and commercial) to a semblance of the earlier order. Increasing entropy is an irresistible force of nature, just appearing in the guise of a virus epidemic.DavidL said:
I am not sure that entropy has yet pushed its way onto our list of problems.Nigelb said:
Because forever is a very long time, and eventually you would exhaust the resources of the universe, as the second law of thermodynamics reminds us....DavidL said:
Why not? Improved technology and higher productivity should produce higher living standards. The challenge is to make this growth compatible with maintaining the planet. The massive growth in green energy and energy efficiency shows that this circle can be squared.Benpointer said:
Growth cannot continue forever. Maybe we need to adjust to maintaining material living standards rather than constantly expecting them to improve?DavidL said:Whilst I would agree that the chart on the previous thread is bollox I do think that it is possible that the economy could bounce back quite quickly from this. One of the more difficult decisions for governments is going to be when to stop and, given the various lags in both the economy and the statistics, it is as likely as not they will overshoot.
But we will undoubtedly have a much more highly indebted world going forward and this is likely to be a drag on growth. There is also the problem that if our scientists are right China in particular has a lot of deferred pain still to come.
I would expect a world with much less travel, less dependent upon international supply lines, inherently more cautious and slower growing. Given the disappointing growth enjoyed since the GFC this is not good news.0 -
25% of food/calories comes from restaurant and pub sector so most of those need replacing via the supermarket for the duration of the crisis. So turnover will be above normal throughout.rural_voter said:
Once people have stopped hoarding, won't supermarket demand fall below 'normal'? Yesterday Aldi was full of food and relatively empty of people.Gallowgate said:
How many graduates do you think Apple takes in the UK?HYUFD said:
There will be extra graduate positions at supermarkets yes and graduate recruitment at companies like Vodaphone and Apple or in the NHS will be unaffected either longer term, so your original statement that 'graduates are screwed' was misleadingGallowgate said:
What point are you trying to make here? That there might be maybe, an extra 5 graduate positions at Tesco or Sainsburys head office?HYUFD said:
You can hold interviews over the phone, Skype etc. This is the 21st century.Gallowgate said:
How’s that going to work if most of their head office is working from home? How are they going to hold assessment centres? Group interviews?HYUFD said:
Given the increasing numbers of orders they are having to manage and the increasing revenues they are making they almost certainly will be increasing them actuallyGallowgate said:
We don’t know if their head office grad schemes will continue as normal. I’m guessing probably not. They almost certainly are not going to be vastly increasing their graduate intake are they?HYUFD said:
Duh, Tesco and Sainsburys both have graduate management schemes, indeed I know a Cambridge maths graduate who works at Tesco head officeGallowgate said:
Working as temporary shop floor staff at Tesco or Sainsburys is really going to pay off that student loan. Good grief...HYUFD said:
Not if they join Tesco or Sainsburys or M & S, the NHS, the police service, the armed forces, the civil service, Google, Apple, Vodaphone and other organisations little affected by this crisis or even seeing a growth in demandGallowgate said:I’m hearing that Deloitte have cancelled all graduate recruitment this year. If true, no doubt other firms will follow.
This year’s university graduates are screwed.
Are they anticipating a drop-off in revenue once the crisis is over and everyone has tons of food?
I think the answer is likely not. Despite increased revenues, how many extra “graduate managers” do you think they need?
We are also not yet at full lockdown either so you can hold face to face meetings then get people working from home with conference calls etc after if needed.
Given supermarkets are making vast revenues and profits at the moment as people are staying in longer and need more food etc that will continue for some time to come and indeed even once the crisis is over peoppe will still need food.
So yes the answer is they likely will and graduate recruitment by Tesco etc will be strong and resiliant for a long time to come, even if they need even more graduate managers now to manage the complex supply chain challenges they are facing etc2 -
More entertainingly, also the father of the PM.Mysticrose said:Interesting thought that if this is indeed a War comparable to WWII, Peter Hitchens could be arrested, locked up and even hanged for sedition.
I hope that thought brings some comfort.0 -
Have they done, or could they ? all I see are reports of Brussels relaxing most financial restrictions.Gallowgate said:
Yeah me too. What a stupid thing to do.rottenborough said:
For once I say tell the EU to f off.TGOHF666 said:0 -
And self-isolate by going to the foot of our stairs.MarqueeMark said:
Yorkshire should be fine then. Nobody there gets beyond a slight nod and the surly uninterested enquiry of "'ow do...."'Scott_xP said:Someone recommended this as the definitive text on what is happening
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rules-Contagion-Outbreaks-Infectious-Diseases-ebook/dp/B07JLSHT7M/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1YX73EF1AJINJ&dchild=1&keywords=epidemics&qid=1584788568&sprefix=epidemics,aps,172&sr=8-2
They were right.
Interactions in schools and at home typically involve physical contact, and encounters that occur on a daily basis often last longer than an hour. Even so, the overall number of interactions can vary a lot between locations. Hong Kong residents typically have physical contact with around five other people each day; the UK is similar, but in Italy, the average is ten.[15]
Kucharski, Adam. The Rules of Contagion (Wellcome Collection) . Profile. Kindle Edition.1 -
NEW THREAD
Just in case no one mentioned it...0 -
I sense this 'me part of outward looking unitary state, you parochial' comes from a very similar place as 'me patriot, you nationalist'.TGOHF666 said:
We are all British - time for parochial nonsense to be put in the bin.Beibheirli_C said:Casino_Royale said:
How do you explain the Gordon Brown adminstration then?Beibheirli_C said:
Surely the English have been running the show since well before the Act of Union? The UK Parliament has always been composed of 3/4 English seats and the rest of the country gets maybe up to 25%.williamglenn said:Do you think the root cause could be a form of British nationalism that denies English nationhood? Before the recent fetishisation of "the UK", we knew very well what England was.
So any wounds are likely self-inflicted...
Scottish MPs occupied several key offices of state and ministries.
That does not alter the fact that the bulk of MPs were English as was a large number of his cabinet.0 -
Matt on your twitter question on the cost of care, there are very different rates depending on the ancillary facilities and the mix between private and public paying. Basically private can be a heck of lot more expensive (up to £3000 per week) but you get much larger facilities, more shared space, single rooms with en-suite wet rooms, etc.MattW said:Gardening Question for @Cyclefree
How do I prune Forsythia without a) Stopping next year's flowers, b) Prevent it going too leggy? How do I deal with those huge shoots? Am I going to have to lose my flowers for a year?
I have one outside my conservatory to light up the corner, and provide a block next to next door. I want it to be slightly higher than the 1.8m fence.
(Forsythia - early 'splash of colour' bush that gets yellow flowers directly on new wood in Feb / Mar. )
Cheers0 -
Charlemagne's empire was not France - it was a collection of personal holdings. Part of that collection (Charles the Bald's inheritance?) developed into France at some point in the future.ydoethur said:
The first King of England was Aethelstan, 924-939. That would still put it behind France, which effectively goes back to the Frankish empire of Charlemagne and more definitively to Verdun in 840.Casino_Royale said:
England is an ancient nation of well over 1,000 years in age. It's one of the oldest polities in Europe.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't think nationalism of any flavour is great. I wouldn't vote for the SNP or Scottish independence if I had the opportunity to - I am a federalist. But people feel better and secure when they know who they are, and my point was about identity. Scotland has worked hard to push an identity. The English identity is what? Gammony drunks? Metropolitan liberals? The two extremes largely hate each other.Casino_Royale said:
So Scottish nationalism is great but English nationalism is a complete no no?RochdalePioneers said:
Nothing fixed, but was looking at houses up near my brother in Aberdeenshire. Again, its not hate. But you can't deny that the level of stupid in England really has dialled up to 11. I hear commentators talk about British exceptionalism - its *English* exceptionalism. We're arrogant / stupid enough to think the rules don't apply to us as we're Better than everyone else. Morons voted for Brexit to stop freedom of movement then moan when their freedom of movement is stopped. Apparently the rules are only for foreigners...Casino_Royale said:
Where were you moving to?RochdalePioneers said:
I wouldn't describe it as hate. More like pity. England used to be something. Look what we've reduced ourselves to. As for moving, plans were in progress, now delayed thanks to Coronavirus.Casino_Royale said:
If you hate your own country so much why don't you go and live somewhere else?RochdalePioneers said:
People are already losing their shit. And this clearly is just an interim stage before the actual lock-down kicks in. I'm not sure that a society as pig ignorant and self-centred as 2020 England will cope (the other less shit nations in the UK will be fine). Expect Peter Hitchens pieces in the Hate Mail telling people that Boris is a Fascist and that we should resist authoritarianism. Feral parents round here will still be drunk letting their feral kids out to create havoc, and that's before the Facebook rumors kick in that Other People have something You haven't got and the riots start.nichomar said:
You are not really locked down though are you.? You can go to B&Q buy a new bed, go to Primart, take a car ride in the country, have a house party etc etc you have a long way to go to true lockdownCasino_Royale said:I just wonder if there are alternative strategies to locking down the whole country.
You ain't seen nothing yet...
I'm not remotely saying Scotland is perfect or immune to our madness. But from what I can see its better. And I think a decent part of that is that they kind of have a mojo about what it is to be Scottish. That was the SNP project more than anything else. England could fix itself, but I think that it will need regionalism as a solution as "England" is at best an amorphous blob of different kingdoms glued together that don't entirely get on. The nice thing about Yorkshire as opposed to my native Lancashire is that there is a proper regional identity. Same in Cornwall. More of that.
Right. Got it.
England's basic problem is that it doesn't know what England or English is. We confuse England for Britain as if they are interchangeable. We don't even have a national anthem and our flag has become synonymous with racists and drunks. We propagandise people who aren't very bright with messages that the schools are against them and then wonder why educational attainment is so low.
None of these are "nationalism". Brexit was a vote of the lost recognising they were lost wanting to forge a new identity of their own. I think my epiphany - having voted for a different kind of Brexit to what we are/were heading for - was that the Britain/England they have been told to want looks repulsive.
I think your views on Englishness are getting bound up in your hyperemotionally charged politics and combining with some kneejerk snobbery as well.0 -
Corona is bringing forward next year's flu deaths.No_Offence_Alan said:
Well, looking at Bergamo, the funeral directors and coffin makers cannot cope. There is a a massive increase in the overall death rate.isam said:
Yes, I think there’s a big chance most of the people who have died would have died of something else anyway. I’d really like to see the number of deaths by flu and pneumonia this year compared with others. Does 2020 Flu+pneumonia+corona = flu+pneumonia in other years?Casino_Royale said:
Ah. That might explain it.isam said:Someone trying to answer the question I keep asking. How many would have died anyway? Apparently the reason Germany’s death rate is so low is they only treat it as death by Coronavirus if they didn’t already have flu or pneumonia etc, and almost all of Italian deaths were pretty gravely ill
https://twitter.com/bipolarrunner/status/1241300450768572417?s=21
https://twitter.com/declamare/status/1241277424500957184?s=21
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
If that's true then that does raise some interesting questions about strategy.0 -
I always felt sorry for this guy - who I had never heard of - but was absolutely screwed by everyone.Gallowgate said:
Thanks Charles and @OldKingCole for the recommendation, I think I’ll check it out.Charles said:
That was one of the more interesting books I've read in the last few yearsOldKingCole said:
Have a look at Norman Davies' "The Forgotten Kingdoms of Europe". And a look at a map of Central Europe pre-1870.DougSeal said:
Every country on Earth beyond micro states, including Scotland, is an agglomeration of countries that no longer exist. And if you want regionalism, the way the Northern Italians talk about those in the South would make even the most jingoistic southerner here blush.RochdalePioneers said:
Nothing fixed, but was looking at houses up near my brother in Aberdeenshire. Again, its not hate. But you can't deny that the level of stupid in England really has dialled up to 11. I hear commentators talk about British exceptionalism - its *English* exceptionalism. We're arrogant / stupid enough to think the rules don't apply to us as we're Better than everyone else. Morons voted for Brexit to stop freedom of movement then moan when their freedom of movement is stopped. Apparently the rules are only for foreigners...Casino_Royale said:
Where were you moving to?RochdalePioneers said:
I wouldn't describe it as hate. More like pity. England used to be something. Look what we've reduced ourselves to. As for moving, plans were in progress, now delayed thanks to Coronavirus.Casino_Royale said:
If you hate your own country so much why don't you go and live somewhere else?RochdalePioneers said:
People are already losing their shit. And this clearly is just an interim stage before the actual lock-down kicks in. I'm not sure that a society as pig ignorant and self-centred as 2020 England will cope (the other less shit nations in the UK will be fine). Expect Peter Hitchens pieces in the Hate Mail telling people that Boris is a Fascist and that we should resist authoritarianism. Feral parents round here will still be drunk letting their feral kids out to create havoc, and that's before the Facebook rumors kick in that Other People have something You haven't got and the riots start.nichomar said:
You are not really locked down though are you.? You can go to B&Q buy a new bed, go to Primart, take a car ride in the country, have a house party etc etc you have a long way to go to true lockdown
You ain't seen nothing yet...
I'm not remotely saying Scotland is perfect or immune to our madness. But from what I can see its better. And I think a decent part of that is that they kind of have a mojo about what it is to be Scottish. That was the SNP project more than anything else. England could fix itself, but I think that it will need regionalism as a solution as "England" is at best an amorphous blob of different kingdoms glued together that don't entirely get on. The nice thing about Yorkshire as opposed to my native Lancashire is that there is a proper regional identity. Same in Cornwall. More of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Edward,_Duke_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/norman-davies/vanished-kingdoms/GOR003932072?keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8_nwMGr6AIVhLTtCh1kKwp6EAQYAiABEgJ0vPD_BwE
0 -
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That was my reactionnoneoftheabove said:Is this EU story actually true or fake news?
Sounds like the Danish scheme was approved in 24 hrs despite also being against the rules. If this is just a journalist realising its against some rules that can be waived its fake news and pathetic journalism trying to sow division at a time like this.
I dont have access to the Times so not sure if the EU are genuinely trying to stop the aid or someone is just quoting existing rules which are already being waived in the exceptional circumstances?
https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/12413006063268986880 -
They were good times in terms of rising living standards. Harold Macmillan told us 'we have never had it so good!'felix said:
Ah yes and what fgreat times they were for happiness, contentment and general prosp.. oh wait a minute. no they weren't.Alistair said:
Compared to 1945 to 1980 they are taxed not very much.HYUFD said:
Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothingAlistair said:I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.
0 -
Tell me this idiot is going to be consigned to history in November and ideally locked up
https://twitter.com/axios/status/12410432207102607372 -
Sounds rather a shit on his own account, though.Charles said:
I always felt sorry for this guy - who I had never heard of - but was absolutely screwed by everyone.Gallowgate said:
Thanks Charles and @OldKingCole for the recommendation, I think I’ll check it out.Charles said:
That was one of the more interesting books I've read in the last few yearsOldKingCole said:
Have a look at Norman Davies' "The Forgotten Kingdoms of Europe". And a look at a map of Central Europe pre-1870.DougSeal said:
Every country on Earth beyond micro states, including Scotland, is an agglomeration of countries that no longer exist. And if you want regionalism, the way the Northern Italians talk about those in the South would make even the most jingoistic southerner here blush.RochdalePioneers said:
Nothing fixed, but was looking at houses up near my brother in Aberdeenshire. Again, its not hate. But you can't deny that the level of stupid in England really has dialled up to 11. I hear commentators talk about British exceptionalism - its *English* exceptionalism. We're arrogant / stupid enough to think the rules don't apply to us as we're Better than everyone else. Morons voted for Brexit to stop freedom of movement then moan when their freedom of movement is stopped. Apparently the rules are only for foreigners...Casino_Royale said:
Where were you moving to?RochdalePioneers said:
I wouldn't describe it as hate. More like pity. England used to be something. Look what we've reduced ourselves to. As for moving, plans were in progress, now delayed thanks to Coronavirus.Casino_Royale said:
If you hate your own country so much why don't you go and live somewhere else?RochdalePioneers said:
People are already losing their shit. And this clearly is just an interim stage before the actual lock-down kicks in. I'm not sure that a society as pig ignorant and self-centred as 2020 England will cope (the other less shit nations in the UK will be fine). Expect Peter Hitchens pieces in the Hate Mail telling people that Boris is a Fascist and that we should resist authoritarianism. Feral parents round here will still be drunk letting their feral kids out to create havoc, and that's before the Facebook rumors kick in that Other People have something You haven't got and the riots start.nichomar said:
You are not really locked down though are you.? You can go to B&Q buy a new bed, go to Primart, take a car ride in the country, have a house party etc etc you have a long way to go to true lockdown
You ain't seen nothing yet...
I'm not remotely saying Scotland is perfect or immune to our madness. But from what I can see its better. And I think a decent part of that is that they kind of have a mojo about what it is to be Scottish. That was the SNP project more than anything else. England could fix itself, but I think that it will need regionalism as a solution as "England" is at best an amorphous blob of different kingdoms glued together that don't entirely get on. The nice thing about Yorkshire as opposed to my native Lancashire is that there is a proper regional identity. Same in Cornwall. More of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Edward,_Duke_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/norman-davies/vanished-kingdoms/GOR003932072?keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8_nwMGr6AIVhLTtCh1kKwp6EAQYAiABEgJ0vPD_BwE0 -
sounds pretty New Labour to me...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Doethur, not sure I agree with the modern view that Dark Ages is an outdated term. Falling populations, political atomisation, declining trade, increasing war, sounds quite Dark Agey.
0 -
Very disturbing article.TGOHF666 said:
Cabinet member playing politics. Johnson got it wrong. Cummings is too close to Vallance and just ignoring other scientists. Rishi was too little too late.
Whoever the fuck that Cabinet Minister is they should be sacked0 -
Bisexual and prone not to wash?Charles said:
Absolutely not. Bess was canny and decisive, but ultimately a risk taker where appropriate.Casino_Royale said:
The CofE is a classic fudge.Charles said:
Nah, Anglicans are definitely members of the "universal Catholic church". Not protesting at all.MattW said:
The phrase for Protestants (and Anglicans get to be both Protestants and Catholics, naturally :-) ) is 'in remembrance'. So I would go with memorial not metaphor, that is still a means of grace.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The Church of England position on the eucharist, insofar as it has one, is that the wafer and wine represent the body and blood of Christ. It is a metaphor, if you like. The Roman Catholic doctrine, known as transubstantiation, is that the wafer and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ. That is the crucial point.RobD said:
Yes, but you aren't actually doing it, are you?Beibheirli_C said:
The church maintains that is exactly what you are doing. Now as an atheist, I personally believe that they are just much munching sub-standard bread and probably 2nd rate wine, but the message, to me, is one step from promoting cannibalism.RobD said:
I doubt it, unless they were actually eating someone.Beibheirli_C said:
"... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."HYUFD said:
In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a wholeBeibheirli_C said:
Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.Pulpstar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxErcs1000 said:
I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.another_richard said:
How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?rcs1000 said:
Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.Jonathan said:
How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?FrancisUrquhart said:
They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.Jonathan said:What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?
That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.
Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation
I wonder if Theresa May would have got on with Elizabeth 1st.
May is more like James I.0 -
Wuite so. Tell the EU to go play with a motorway.rottenborough said:0
This discussion has been closed.