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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    DavidL said:

    Whilst I would agree that the chart on the previous thread is bollox I do think that it is possible that the economy could bounce back quite quickly from this. One of the more difficult decisions for governments is going to be when to stop and, given the various lags in both the economy and the statistics, it is as likely as not they will overshoot.

    But we will undoubtedly have a much more highly indebted world going forward and this is likely to be a drag on growth. There is also the problem that if our scientists are right China in particular has a lot of deferred pain still to come.

    I would expect a world with much less travel, less dependent upon international supply lines, inherently more cautious and slower growing. Given the disappointing growth enjoyed since the GFC this is not good news.

    It will affect different countries in different ways.

    For example a reduction in global tourism wouldn't hurt a country with a £25bn annual tourism deficit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
    Thank god us Brits keep our distance. The continentals could learn a thing or two from us. :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently our confirmed case numbers are using tests that take 3 days whereas other places are on 4 hour testing ?

    I've been on conference calls today...and people have it....one law firm, they all had it......all coughing, fevers and feeling shocking....

    I spoke to someone else....coughing.,...

    My sister...coughing.....

    Her son...fever and coughing......
    I really wish we knew precisely how many had it. Must be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
    Or millions... In which case it might all be over rather sooner than anyone had expected
    If it was millions, which I presume it is in Italy, our system would have crashed by now with the shear number of people requiring hospital treatment. It would have to be the iceberg of all icebergs and the UK to have somehow got ridiculously lucky with the majority of young people getting and not passed it on to oldies.
    Italy could be ten millionn internet, and we could be 1-1.5 million.
    You do genuinely believe that the actual cases are an order of magnitude greater than the egg-heads have stated?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    A national divide has become apparent: the BBC News paper review is talking to its guests remotely whereas Sky News still has them in the studio.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    This is why the package must be enough to avoid economic collapse but not so much as to lead to such an increase in taxation over the next decade as to cripple the growth of the economy for years
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Whilst I would agree that the chart on the previous thread is bollox I do think that it is possible that the economy could bounce back quite quickly from this. One of the more difficult decisions for governments is going to be when to stop and, given the various lags in both the economy and the statistics, it is as likely as not they will overshoot.

    But we will undoubtedly have a much more highly indebted world going forward and this is likely to be a drag on growth. There is also the problem that if our scientists are right China in particular has a lot of deferred pain still to come.

    I would expect a world with much less travel, less dependent upon international supply lines, inherently more cautious and slower growing. Given the disappointing growth enjoyed since the GFC this is not good news.

    Growth cannot continue forever. Maybe we need to adjust to maintaining material living standards rather than constantly expecting them to improve?
    Why not? Improved technology and higher productivity should produce higher living standards. The challenge is to make this growth compatible with maintaining the planet. The massive growth in green energy and energy efficiency shows that this circle can be squared.
    Energy is only part of the problem. Whatever a car runs on it needs finite resources to build, leaves heavily polluting remains to be disposed of when it dies, and requires you to pave paradise and put up a parking lot to have somewhere to put it.
    Electric cars will last a lot longer, have far fewer moving bits, and are starting to be designed to be recycled.
    I'm involved in a business that takes old Nissan Leaf batteries and uses them to create something like Tesla PowerWalls.
    Fabulous recycling. Potentially very profitable too.
    Yes, the previous generation of batteries proved to have longer useful lives than originally thought. The next one will be a lot better.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Having re-read my last post, I have to say it's poor and didn't really make the point I was trying to about economics.

    My apologies to everyone, sorry.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Alistair said:

    I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.

    Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothing
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Alistair said:

    Have we considered taxing rich people?

    I was thinking about this earlier. I think that rather than taxing people a lot when they get rich, we should tax them to use the things that enable them to get rich before they do
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Having re-read my last post, I have to say it's poor and didn't really make the point I was trying to about economics.

    My apologies to everyone, sorry.

    The effect of the crisis on pensions and healthcare in the future is interesting, albeit morbid, especially if deaths are at the higher end of the government's estimates.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    Would May have been better ?
    I’m as relieved as isam says she is that she’s gone. And I say that as a Boris anti-fan.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    Can outdated national stereotypes protect you from infection? I say, it’s the bowler hats and the Dunkirk spirit that are protecting us in Blighty.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
    Thank god us Brits keep our distance. The continentals could learn a thing or two from us. :p
    From 8.20...

    https://youtu.be/Pae2AMnmUVA?t=500
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
    Thank god us Brits keep our distance. The continentals could learn a thing or two from us. :p
    I foresee a return to Victorian stuffy aloofness
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    Can outdated national stereotypes protect you from infection? I say, it’s the bowler hats and the Dunkirk spirit that are protecting us in Blighty.
    I suspect the number is far higher than in the UK. The communion must have been a breeding ground for this thing.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    To be fair to Boris no politician alive in the UK has had to deal with anything on quite this scale, so if he looks a bit frazzled and out of his depth, at least be glad that he is willing to listen and delegate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    Italy is 81% Catholic (I don't know how assiduously catholic). Catholic mass is probably less dangerous then protestant because the lay punters get bread only, it's only the priests who get wine.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2020

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    Among the old in small towns in Italy, I would say still very high.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    May wouldn't have signed off a plan yet, and when she had she certainly wouldn't change it.

    Where Boris is poor is getting the messaging right. He waffles too much. What we need is the kind of Blair 5 point pledge card that they bang out time and time again. The education, education, education type thing for this crisis.

    With the hand washing he was good, now often gets waffle waffle waffle. Not helped by the press asking dickhead questions about if they can go on their summer holidays or can their kids have a play date.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
    Thank god us Brits keep our distance. The continentals could learn a thing or two from us. :p
    I foresee a return to Victorian stuffy aloofness
    Thank god.

    How about powder wigs, or is that asking a bit much? :D
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,442
    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    I think Johnson is more flexible than May, which is an advantage, but he seems unable to find a serious tone, which I think is unhelpful in this situation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    May would have been dreadful, she'd have stuck to the original 'herd immunity' plan for way too long. Boris' lack of dogma is a good trait here.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Without Urgent Action, Coronavirus Could Overwhelm U.S., Estimates Say
    But they offer a stark warning: Even if the country cuts its rate of transmission in half — a tall order — some 650,000 people might become infected in the next two months.

    The growth is driven by Americans with mild symptoms who are carrying and spreading the virus without being aware that they have it, the researchers say. The number of undetected cases — 11 times more than has been officially reported, they estimate — reflects how far behind the United States has fallen in testing for the virus.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/20/us/coronavirus-model-us-outbreak.html
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    Yes, and obviously the much more huggy / kissy / touchy feeling nature of the likes of Italy, Spain and France. I mean how many people do you do La Bise with on a weekly basis in France?
    Thank god us Brits keep our distance. The continentals could learn a thing or two from us. :p
    I foresee a return to Victorian stuffy aloofness
    We already have the return of 'cleanliness is next to godliness'.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    glw said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    To be fair to Boris no politician alive in the UK has had to deal with anything on quite this scale, so if he looks a bit frazzled and out of his depth, at least be glad that he is willing to listen and delegate.
    I am! I was complimenting him!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.

    Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothing
    Poor rich people
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Looking at the figures in Northern Italy, does anybody truly believe in China only 3000 died, given they left 3 months before they locked down and we all saw the footage of the Wuhan hospitals being overloaded even worse than in Italy, with 100s queuing in A&E to just be seen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    glw said:

    Without Urgent Action, Coronavirus Could Overwhelm U.S., Estimates Say

    But they offer a stark warning: Even if the country cuts its rate of transmission in half — a tall order — some 650,000 people might become infected in the next two months.

    The growth is driven by Americans with mild symptoms who are carrying and spreading the virus without being aware that they have it, the researchers say. The number of undetected cases — 11 times more than has been officially reported, they estimate — reflects how far behind the United States has fallen in testing for the virus.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/20/us/coronavirus-model-us-outbreak.html
    They're enjoying spring break in Miami
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu4M_G-urqw
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.

    Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothing
    Compared to 1945 to 1980 they are taxed not very much.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    Alistair said:

    Have we considered taxing rich people?

    I was thinking about this earlier. I think that rather than taxing people a lot when they get rich, we should tax them to use the things that enable them to get rich before they do
    You are in favour of a massive inheritance tax then?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.

    Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothing
    Compared to 1945 to 1980 they are taxed not very much.
    Is that comparing the tax rate, or the gross amount the treasury brings in from the higher rate taxpayers?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently our confirmed case numbers are using tests that take 3 days whereas other places are on 4 hour testing ?

    I've been on conference calls today...and people have it....one law firm, they all had it......all coughing, fevers and feeling shocking....

    I spoke to someone else....coughing.,...

    My sister...coughing.....

    Her son...fever and coughing......
    I really wish we knew precisely how many had it. Must be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
    Or millions... In which case it might all be over rather sooner than anyone had expected
    If it was millions, which I presume it is in Italy, our system would have crashed by now with the shear number of people requiring hospital treatment. It would have to be the iceberg of all icebergs and the UK to have somehow got ridiculously lucky with the majority of young people getting and not passed it on to oldies.
    Italy could be ten millionn internet, and we could be 1-1.5 million.
    10 million concentrated in Lombardy?
    No. 10 million across the whole country
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Just watching the Sky news report, again reinforcing in Italy there is a real issue of whatever they do in ICU isn't working. They just showed footage of an ICU ward and said in 2 weeks only 1 person has shown signs of recovery, the rest that have come through are either dead or still in a critical condition.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    May wouldn't have signed off a plan yet, and when she had she certainly wouldn't change it.

    Where Boris is poor is getting the messaging right. He waffles too much. What we need is the kind of Blair 5 point pledge card that they bang out time and time again. The education, education, education type thing for this crisis.

    With the hand washing he was good, now often gets waffle waffle waffle. Not helped by the press asking dickhead questions about if they can go on their summer holidays or can their kids have a play date.
    May would have been a disaster on this. Every science summary would have been sat on for weeks as she and Nick Timothy weighed up all the choices.

    By July, the first new ventilator would be arriving.

    It does not bear thinking about.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    That's a certainty.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently our confirmed case numbers are using tests that take 3 days whereas other places are on 4 hour testing ?

    I've been on conference calls today...and people have it....one law firm, they all had it......all coughing, fevers and feeling shocking....

    I spoke to someone else....coughing.,...

    My sister...coughing.....

    Her son...fever and coughing......
    I really wish we knew precisely how many had it. Must be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
    Or millions... In which case it might all be over rather sooner than anyone had expected
    If it was millions, which I presume it is in Italy, our system would have crashed by now with the shear number of people requiring hospital treatment. It would have to be the iceberg of all icebergs and the UK to have somehow got ridiculously lucky with the majority of young people getting and not passed it on to oldies.
    Italy could be ten millionn internet, and we could be 1-1.5 million.
    10 million concentrated in Lombardy?
    No. 10 million across the whole country
    It doesn't fit the pattern of hospitalisations and deaths. If coronavirus was widespread much earlier, how did it manage to spare the vulnerable until now? And if you think these are recent infections, that's not good news because it means it's spread like wildfire and when those people become symptomatic, the death toll will be horrific.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    31% in Italy, 17% in Spain based on the last CARA figures
    https://cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/intmassattendance.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    May wouldn't have signed off a plan yet, and when she had she certainly wouldn't change it.

    Where Boris is poor is getting the messaging right. He waffles too much. What we need is the kind of Blair 5 point pledge card that they bang out time and time again. The education, education, education type thing for this crisis.

    With the hand washing he was good, now often gets waffle waffle waffle. Not helped by the press asking dickhead questions about if they can go on their summer holidays or can their kids have a play date.
    May would have been a disaster on this. Every science summary would have been sat on for weeks as she and Nick Timothy weighed up all the choices.

    By July, the first new ventilator would be arriving.

    It does not bear thinking about.
    Not sure even then, asking non-medical companies to reverse engineer a bit of kit and make it, while willing to wave a lot of the regulation and safety checking. I can't imagine her instinct being to even entertainment such a risky move.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
  • I appreciate that this may sound rather harsh, but what would the reasonably fast death of, say, half a million elderly people actually mean longer term for the economy, Is it all that bad ?

    The looming aged care bill would be drastically reduced over decades, state pension payments reduced markedly, it'd deliver an effective supply side boost to the housing market.

    If we are to face mass deaths, best done quickly and allow the economy a "v" rebound. Worst case scenario is years of lockdown and the same or only marginally lower death toll

    Obvious human tragedy but as this thread is about economics. If it's going to happen, best to get it over with quickly.

    I agree. Moreover, the apparent economic cost per additional year of life in decent health saved through lockdown appears far higher than the NICE thresholds for expenditure on lifesaving drugs. I'm bewildered that many of those bemoaning predicted differences in generational impacts of Brexit are gung ho behind a seemingly much more uneven policy approach here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    I mean, I know we've tried 35 years of not taxing rich people but it seems to have a few problems. I say we try taxing rich people again.

    Rich people pay 45% of their income in tax at the highest level, they are not taxed nothing
    Compared to 1945 to 1980 they are taxed not very much.
    From 1945 to 1980 most of the key industries were nationalised
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    glw said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    To be fair to Boris no politician alive in the UK has had to deal with anything on quite this scale, so if he looks a bit frazzled and out of his depth, at least be glad that he is willing to listen and delegate.
    I think that is right but we should not overstate it. If we separate this crisis into two components -- the disease and its economic consequences -- then Gordon Brown had the global financial crisis, Mrs Thatcher had the AIDS crisis (and if you recall, there was a period when we did not know what was killing mainly gay men), and the BSE crisis under John Major (those initials again, but I suspect @jm1 is an economist) . So imo we have seen both components recently but not together. This means there will be accumulated expertise in the Treasury and elsewhere on how to respond.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited March 2020
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently our confirmed case numbers are using tests that take 3 days whereas other places are on 4 hour testing ?

    I've been on conference calls today...and people have it....one law firm, they all had it......all coughing, fevers and feeling shocking....

    I spoke to someone else....coughing.,...

    My sister...coughing.....

    Her son...fever and coughing......
    I really wish we knew precisely how many had it. Must be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
    Or millions... In which case it might all be over rather sooner than anyone had expected
    If it was millions, which I presume it is in Italy, our system would have crashed by now with the shear number of people requiring hospital treatment. It would have to be the iceberg of all icebergs and the UK to have somehow got ridiculously lucky with the majority of young people getting and not passed it on to oldies.
    Italy could be ten millionn internet, and we could be 1-1.5 million.
    10 million concentrated in Lombardy?
    No. 10 million across the whole country
    It doesn't fit the pattern of hospitalisations and deaths. If coronavirus was widespread much earlier, how did it manage to spare the vulnerable until now? And if you think these are recent infections, that's not good news because it means it's spread like wildfire and when those people become symptomatic, the death toll will be horrific.
    You are forgetting the massive time gap between infection and diagnosis.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    isam said:

    Alistair said:

    Have we considered taxing rich people?

    I was thinking about this earlier. I think that rather than taxing people a lot when they get rich, we should tax them to use the things that enable them to get rich before they do
    You are in favour of a massive inheritance tax then?
    Not really, I think the recipients should be taxed on it when they die, but the person who earned it and paid tax on it already should be able to give the whole lot away. Maybe impossible to do, but I’d tax the recipients massively when they leave it

    So if a businessman leaves his son £100m, his and his son dies with £98m that should be taxed massively, but if his son leaves £200m, only £100m should be taxed.

    My point was more if people get rich exploiting immigrant labour, then make them pay the immigrants rent, or if they rely on air travel, make that more expensive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    That's a certainty.
    Perhaps this is God's way of solving Italy's demographic issues.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Apparently our confirmed case numbers are using tests that take 3 days whereas other places are on 4 hour testing ?

    I've been on conference calls today...and people have it....one law firm, they all had it......all coughing, fevers and feeling shocking....

    I spoke to someone else....coughing.,...

    My sister...coughing.....

    Her son...fever and coughing......
    I really wish we knew precisely how many had it. Must be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
    Or millions... In which case it might all be over rather sooner than anyone had expected
    If it was millions, which I presume it is in Italy, our system would have crashed by now with the shear number of people requiring hospital treatment. It would have to be the iceberg of all icebergs and the UK to have somehow got ridiculously lucky with the majority of young people getting and not passed it on to oldies.
    Italy could be ten millionn internet, and we could be 1-1.5 million.
    10 million concentrated in Lombardy?
    No. 10 million across the whole country
    It doesn't fit the pattern of hospitalisations and deaths. If coronavirus was widespread much earlier, how did it manage to spare the vulnerable until now? And if you think these are recent infections, that's not good news because it means it's spread like wildfire and when those people become symptomatic, the death toll will be horrific.
    You are forgetting the massive time gap between infection and diagnosis.
    No, that's exactly what the second part of my post refers to. It cannot be the case that 10 million have been infected and had the disease run its course, because we would see many more dead, so if there are that many infections, most of them are at the early stages and we're going to see a horrific death toll no matter what we do.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Either Johnson or Trump can't be too far off of getting infected.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    I see Bernie is still going hard on the campaign trail, albeit virtually. Surely he doesn't think he can still win?

    Might be, on basis opponents don’t manage to get to polling day.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    Boris's gaffe about seeing his mother on Mothers Day, despite having been cued in the question and even the first part of his answer that this was a bad thing, shows there is still a way to go.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    Boris's gaffe about seeing his mother on Mothers Day, despite having been cued in the question and even the first part of his answer that this was a bad thing, shows there is still a way to go.
    What was the gaffe? I thought he said he’d be busy at work?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    I missed the question about his mother because my boss texted me at that exact time. What did he say? I just heard some garbled stuff about “working hard on Sunday”.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    Boris's gaffe about seeing his mother on Mothers Day, despite having been cued in the question and even the first part of his answer that this was a bad thing, shows there is still a way to go.
    What was the gaffe? I thought he said he’d be busy at work?
    Boris ended by saying he did hope to see his mother.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Its must be really really bad if they are locking down New York for 90 days. I can't see how Paris doesn't have to extend for many weeks.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Oh yes just seen it. I only caught the first bit.

    I’m going to go to my parents and wave through the window or stand at opposite ends of the garden I think.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
    You said he said he hoped to "see her"? That could be either in person or via video call, as is common these days.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Oh yes just seen it. I only caught the first bit.

    I’m going to go to my parents and wave through the window or stand at opposite ends of the garden I think.
    On Sunday, not now!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    Would May have been better ?
    I’m as relieved as isam says she is that she’s gone. And I say that as a Boris anti-fan.
    May would have been an utter disaster.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    HYUFD said:
    What the government needs to beware of with this key workers business is that it does not inadvertently open up a class divide whereby the children of middle-class doctors and bankers continue to be educated but the offspring of ordinary people are not.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/key-worker-official-list-of-uk-personnel-who-can-still-send-children-to-school
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
    You said he said he hoped to "see her"? That could be either in person or via video call, as is common these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but is not what Boris said. As I said before.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
    You said he said he hoped to "see her"? That could be either in person or via video call, as is common these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but is not what Boris said. As I said before.
    What did he say then?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    I've sent you a PM you might find amusing (Or grim)
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    Would May have been better ?
    I’m as relieved as isam says she is that she’s gone. And I say that as a Boris anti-fan.
    May would have been an utter disaster.
    Hack it means hack it
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
    You said he said he hoped to "see her"? That could be either in person or via video call, as is common these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but is not what Boris said. As I said before.
    What did he say then?
    There is a video here, and no doubt elsewhere.

    “My advice would be that people should really think very carefully - irrespective of whether they are going to visit their mothers - about any elderly person who may be in a vulnerable group.

    "It doesn’t really matter if they are over 70, the issue is whether they are in one of the vulnerable groups.

    “Think very carefully about the risk of transmission of the virus and follow the advice. Our advice is that elderly people, people with serious underlying health conditions and people in the later stages of pregnancy, you have to be careful about transmission of the virus. I’m sure people will handle that advice accordingly.”

    “I’m in regular contact with all members of my family but I’ll be working very hard on Sunday, I can tell you that.

    “I will certainly be sending her my very best wishes and hope to get to see her.”


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-mum-coronavirus-mothers-day-self-isolate-tv-address-today-a9415496.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Moons in Hornchurch! 🙈
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:
    What the government needs to beware of with this key workers business is that it does not inadvertently open up a class divide whereby the children of middle-class doctors and bankers continue to be educated but the offspring of ordinary people are not.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/key-worker-official-list-of-uk-personnel-who-can-still-send-children-to-school
    Can only speak from my position but everything is remote learning, and the small number going into school will be doing that work as well (maybe more PE type stuff in addition). Staff will be online apart from the odd day as ‘childminders’ (and they’re going to have to stay at last five metres away from me if they know what’s good for them). Other schools, especially in the state sector, I imagine will be different.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Alistair said:

    Have we considered taxing rich people?

    Don't be stupid! :smile: That never works.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    I often think of old Tess and wonder what she would have been like in this chaos. One thing I sort of like about Bozza is that he just lets the experts make the decisions - I get the feeling that Prof Whitty and Sir Paddy tell him what to do each morning and he just ruffles his hair and says “okay then”.
    And appoints great chancellors, say the people who like what the govt is doing but have to find a way not to credit Boris!

    When Richi wasn’t giving money away, it was Johnson’s govt not handling it appropriately...
    It’s Rishi - he’s going to be another Keir, people just can’t spell the bloke’s name correctly!

    I am giving credit to Bozza, I like the fact that he delegates. I wasn’t intending to appear sarky!
    No I didn’t think you were
    Fair enough. I thought he was pretty good today, at the press conference. I hope they don’t do them on Saturdays and Sundays as they need a rest. The boffins seem to be on a rota (Prof W/Dr Jenny/Rishi/Sir Paddy) but Bozza does every day which is fucking exhausting I should think.
    His answer as to whether he’d be seeing his mum on Sunday was good! I think his humorous manner actually plays well in the press conferences, leaving the experts to deliver the serious stuff.
    The first part of his answer was good before the characteristic Boris twist where he said he did hope to see her -- against all government advice and against what he had himself just said.
    Depends, seeing could be over skype these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but it is not what Boris said.
    You said he said he hoped to "see her"? That could be either in person or via video call, as is common these days.
    And that is what is now being spun but is not what Boris said. As I said before.
    What did he say then?
    There is a video here, and no doubt elsewhere.

    “My advice would be that people should really think very carefully - irrespective of whether they are going to visit their mothers - about any elderly person who may be in a vulnerable group.

    "It doesn’t really matter if they are over 70, the issue is whether they are in one of the vulnerable groups.

    “Think very carefully about the risk of transmission of the virus and follow the advice. Our advice is that elderly people, people with serious underlying health conditions and people in the later stages of pregnancy, you have to be careful about transmission of the virus. I’m sure people will handle that advice accordingly.”

    “I’m in regular contact with all members of my family but I’ll be working very hard on Sunday, I can tell you that.

    “I will certainly be sending her my very best wishes and hope to get to see her.”


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-mum-coronavirus-mothers-day-self-isolate-tv-address-today-a9415496.html
    Mixed messages, perhaps, but these days I'd count a skype call as seeing someone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    Would May have been better ?
    I’m as relieved as isam says she is that she’s gone. And I say that as a Boris anti-fan.
    May would have been an utter disaster.
    Boris may be no better because we lack an important piece of information in this war - the number of people who had it without knowing and who are now fully recovered.

    As an extreme example - suppose 60% of the UK had already had Covid-19 and were now recovered. If we knew that, our responses would be very, very different to what is being proposed.

    Now the truth is that it is unlikely that 60% have had it, but say 10% had very minor symptoms or none, it changes the problem. At the minute we are testing people who are likely to have it or who have been in contact with someone who has it. That must bias the figures and that bias may skew our responses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Police enforcing Californian lockdown a mate tells me.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Nigelb said:

    Businesses are likely to be more cautious for quite a few years.
    International trade will take a significant hit for quite a few years.
    Ditto travel.
    Ditto overseas students studying in the UK.
    Will we see more vertical businesses ? Less just in time manufacturing ? Will resilience be prized over efficiency ?

    Will expectation of government increase ?

    OTOH, there is going to be a massive shift in the world’s energy supply, with power ending up significantly cheaper in the medium term. The destruction wreaked on the corporate world will possibly accelerate technological change.

    In any event, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

    Another possible factor is that China really has cracked it and their economy recovers to full speed while the rest of us are struggling, with a significant impact on how the global economy works.

    I picked up a January copy of The Economist the other day and idly loojed through the miscellaneous news snippetsat the front. Midway down column 2 there was a single paragraph noting that there had been some infectious disease deaths in Wuhan.

    Just over 2 months ago...
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
    Yeah. They were weird the ancient Greeks.

    They used to eat the brain of sparrows, thinking sparrows are randy so it’s an aphrodisiac
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    My girlfriend just came out with quite an astute political observation I think

    “I bet Theresa Mays thinking ‘Thank fuck’ “

    May would probably have been better, but Boris has one unique advantage that May could never have had. Boris does not have Boris On the sidelines plotting to oust him.
    No. I don't think she would have been better actually. Indeed, might have been worse.


    Bit of political news from the Merseyside frontline. My wife, my father in law and my mother (all staunch Labour party supporters, who vote Labour because they vote Labour!) have said....

    Give me a minute here. This is hard to say.... they have said.....

    They have said they think a Conservative Prime Minister is doing a good job.

    My father in law went further, and suggested Matt Hancock was also doing a good job.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
    "... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."

    If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests. There was a case in Germany or Austria some time ago where someone arranged to have himself slaughtered and eaten. The cops made arrests...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
    "... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."

    If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests.
    I doubt it, unless they were actually eating someone.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    On topic.
    Where technically are the government going to get the money to cover 80% of wage of someone who would otherwise be laid off? The melt down 2008, banks were given credit that initially was borrowing lent only by promising pay off from some good years of gdp growth not solely austerity. And that wasn’t exactly cash on the barrel head as this is
    An employer actually pays employee 80% of their wage on time to stop them going under (hopefully) but the government will need to give the business something to stop them going under. It can’t be an iou it must be actual money. But from where?
    I don’t think the promise is actually doable. Who lends the money knowing where U.K. will be for years after this crisis
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020
    On the school situation again, it appears that a large number of areas are pooling together, so there will be children from numerous schools put together so, at the end of the day, they’ll be going back to their own catchment areas. Others doing the same but switching from school to school as well.

    How can it be that the most dangerous solution is the one that they gravitate to? It seems like they are putting logistics before safety
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    egg said:

    On topic.
    Where technically are the government going to get the money to cover 80% of wage of someone who would otherwise be laid off? The melt down 2008, banks were given credit that initially was borrowing lent only by promising pay off from some good years of gdp growth not solely austerity. And that wasn’t exactly cash on the barrel head as this is
    An employer actually pays employee 80% of their wage on time to stop them going under (hopefully) but the government will need to give the business something to stop them going under. It can’t be an iou it must be actual money. But from where?
    I don’t think the promise is actually doable. Who lends the money knowing where U.K. will be for years after this crisis

    Easy. A teller at the Bank of England is going to press a few keys on their keyboard and magic up £200 bn to buy government bonds.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Whilst I would agree that the chart on the previous thread is bollox I do think that it is possible that the economy could bounce back quite quickly from this. One of the more difficult decisions for governments is going to be when to stop and, given the various lags in both the economy and the statistics, it is as likely as not they will overshoot.

    But we will undoubtedly have a much more highly indebted world going forward and this is likely to be a drag on growth. There is also the problem that if our scientists are right China in particular has a lot of deferred pain still to come.

    I would expect a world with much less travel, less dependent upon international supply lines, inherently more cautious and slower growing. Given the disappointing growth enjoyed since the GFC this is not good news.

    Growth cannot continue forever. Maybe we need to adjust to maintaining material living standards rather than constantly expecting them to improve?
    Why not? Improved technology and higher productivity should produce higher living standards. The challenge is to make this growth compatible with maintaining the planet. The massive growth in green energy and energy efficiency shows that this circle can be squared.
    Energy is only part of the problem. Whatever a car runs on it needs finite resources to build, leaves heavily polluting remains to be disposed of when it dies, and requires you to pave paradise and put up a parking lot to have somewhere to put it.
    Electric cars will last a lot longer, have far fewer moving bits, and are starting to be designed to be recycled.
    Except that currently cars often get scrapped well before they are really beyond economic repair because the secondhand market is saturated. £600 spent wisely will currently buy you a car with probably 75,000-100,000 miles of fairly troublefree running left in it. Far too many people appear to want to run brand new cars (which is great news for people like me, who want cheap motoring), but less great for the planet given that the environmental impact of building a car is IIRC comparable to driving it for 100,000 miles.
    If we actually cared about the planet, we'd financially incentive people to keep cars longer (maybe by starting out with a very high annual RFL which reduces to free for 15 year old cars) but the car manufacturers would cry blue murder so no chance of that. Instead we got a morinic scrapoage scheme last time round which was net negative to the plant whilst supposedly being green.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    Police enforcing Californian lockdown a mate tells me.

    I'm about to walk the dog, so I'll let you know...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
    "... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."

    If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests.
    I doubt it, unless they were actually eating someone.
    The church maintains that is exactly what you are doing. Now as an atheist, I personally believe that they are just much munching sub-standard bread and probably 2nd rate wine, but the message, to me, is one step from promoting cannibalism.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is Germany getting apparently so right? Lots of testing, lots of cases. Very few deaths. Is there something to learn from it?

    They have been incredibly lucky that 70% of their cases are under 50 year olds.
    How do you get that lucky? You make your own luck. How did they make that?
    Well their initial outbreaks were youth carnival events at a time when this virus was known to be in Europe. That was lucky. And then they tested basically everybody who went to those events.

    That isn't to say the German's aren't doing really well, just pointing out their initial big outbreak was quite different to Italy.

    Italy have the opposite, they were incredibly unlucky that it hit an area where lots of old people live and in multi-generational households. And it is thought it circulating among commuting younger people who brought it back to those outlying towns.
    Catholic Mass may turn out to be an absolute killer.
    How many Italians, and Spanish for that matter, still go to Mass ?
    I suspect that Mass goers are predominantly older.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aURU-mD8HxE

    5:55 the reason for the outbreak being so dire in Italy ?
    Bl**dy hell - that is creepy! If anyone else made a video about how good it was to eat someone else, they could expect a visit from PC Plod and their social media accounts cleaned out.
    In Catholic doctrine not only is the body of Christ present in the bread of the Eucharist but Christ as a whole
    "... you touch him, you eat him... he gives himself to you to be your food and nourishment ..."

    If it was said in any video other than a church video, there would be arrests.
    I doubt it, unless they were actually eating someone.
    The church maintains that is exactly what you are doing. Now as an atheist, I personally believe that they are just much munching sub-standard bread and probably 2nd rate wine, but the message, to me, is one step from promoting cannibalism.
    Yes, but you aren't actually doing it, are you?
This discussion has been closed.