Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
Last week in my church the, the dioceses had invoked the 1542 Sacrament act, so that communion was given in just one kind (bread) and not wine so there was no need to use a shared chalices.
It felt quite reassuring so how to know that this had been foreseen almost half a millennium ago.
I dunno how many Catholics or Anglo-Catholics are In Da House tonight, but something I've wondered without knowing a lot about religious matters.
What's the big objection to using individual Communion cups like the Baptists, Methodists, Reformed churches etc? This kind of kit always struck me as more hygienic - always found it a bit icky when watching Catholic/Anglican services with a shared cup, but I guess it depends what you grow up with as "normal".
I think is about the idea of 'communion' being 'communal', and therfore the sharing of a cup is part of that.
but I suspect its also about maintaining a tradition because its 'normal' to each geration.
Arguably as nobody shares a cup in normal life nowadays, (even when going to the pub in a virus Pandemic) its no longer holds the same symbolic value, which why newer denominations have not felt the ergeg to emulate that practice.
Interesting point, I hadn't considered how culturally drinking from a shared container was a major part of life for thousands of years. Much the same principle as with a Viking drinking horn full of mead being passed around the table at a feast.
The modern equivalents perhaps being passing a Joint or a 'crak' pipe, not my thing, but I understand the custom is to pass to the left, the same a bottle of port.
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Actually, I agree with you.
If I was 18 and desperate to get drunk and meet girls and have druggy fun, as I once was, how long would I tolerate sitting at home watching Netflix? Twonyears? No way.
The government will have to play this aspect carefully.
But Justin is 65 and it is inexcusable. Get home, have a biscuit, stop being a selfish arse.
Incidentally, as I said I did see SOME people in pubs on my evening walk - and most were over 40, if not over 50. Maybe there is some truth in the boomer/Gen X accusation.
I am glad you agree.
There is no way 18 years olds are going to sit at home worrying about coronavirus transmission rates for 2 weeks -- let alone for however long this goes on for.
And, I see their point of view. Why should they not dance and drink and screw?
Because their parents might end up dead?
If they're 18, their parents are probably 40-50. It is not a big risk.
OK, their grandparents.
Plenty of 40-50 years old are sending up on an ICU, plenty are being hospitalised with mild [sic] pneumonia. Who is to say this is not taking a significant lump of of their parents overall level of health, out of their remaining life expectancy.
What are the practical actions we can do to reduce our chances of getting pneumonia, and if we get it stop it requiring hospitalisation?
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Because when they go back to their house with Grandpa Eadric they'd probably kill him.
It is a serious question. The world is already skewed in terms of wealth, property, assets in favour of the old.
And now a nineteen year is being expected not to go out.
Maybe that is just about fine for a couple of weeks, but for two years, or more?
What has Grandpa Eadric ever done for the young ?
I recollect he was a pretty selfish, hard-partying bastard when he was young.
Well lots of old people are about to DIE, so maybe the world is rebalancing itself. And that's maybe a good thing. Albeit a bit tough on those that cop a particularly nasty death.
That's what bugs me about this bug. It's a really bad way to go. Drowning in your own lung fluid, over two days, alone in a ward full of other people dying, with no relatives of friends around, holding an iPad to say goodbye to everyone (that's what they do in Italian hospitals). The disease cruelly keeps you lucid to the bitter end.
And then they take your corpse and it is rapidly burned in Corpse Burning Unit 956XF, with no proper funeral.
Christ. I'd rather die at home of heroin. Ta v much.
if you described pretty much any illness in literal detail like that it would sound as scary.
Not true at all. Take cancer. Many cancer victims end up in a hospice where they are slowly euthanised with morphine. They gently drift away, submerged in opiates,a and hopefully their last vague memory is a blur of friendly, loving faces around the death-bed.
... I honestly lose track of all these titles. I was born in 1965. Is that Baby Boomer? Or Gen X? I think I ought to know so I can behave accordingly.
I was also born in 65 and would like a definitive ruling on this
It appears that there is no definitive year. According to Wikipedia the crossover is somewhere between 1960 and 1965.
"Generation X (or Gen X for short) is the demographic cohort following the baby boomers and preceding the Millennials. Researchers and popular media typically use birth years around 1965 to 1980 to define Generation Xers, although some sources use birth years beginning as early as 1960 and ending somewhere from 1977 to 1984."
Gen X birth year 1964 to 1981 for our company’s stats etc.
That sounds official enough for me - I read Douglas Coupland novels and learned to program on a Research Machines Z80 so maybe proto-Gen X rather than full on
I wore out the programming possibilities of a ZX81 in a week and traded it in against a BBC Model B which lasted me about 10 years.
Actually you can do a heck of a lot on a ZX81, very much doubt you "wore out the possibilities" in a week!! Still have no idea how 3D Monster Maze worked on that thing (though admittedly it didn't fit on 1 kB, needed the memory expansion).
It was way too limiting. I was at the start of my programming career and I needed a machine with halfway decent capabilities and more than one programming language. I had BCPL as well as BBC Pascal. BCPL was fun.
Nowadays, after a couple of decades, I have used more programming languages than enough. I always had a bit of a soft spot for System/36 OCL...
I learned to program in Cobol, PL/I and Assembler on an IBM System/360 running OS/360, release 16. Yup, that long ago.
Did you hold the punched tape up to the light to see where you needed to debug?
No paper tape. We did have a data cell though! We even had a 1401 in the computer room for legacy programs.
... I honestly lose track of all these titles. I was born in 1965. Is that Baby Boomer? Or Gen X? I think I ought to know so I can behave accordingly.
I was also born in 65 and would like a definitive ruling on this
It appears that there is no definitive year. According to Wikipedia the crossover is somewhere between 1960 and 1965.
"Generation X (or Gen X for short) is the demographic cohort following the baby boomers and preceding the Millennials. Researchers and popular media typically use birth years around 1965 to 1980 to define Generation Xers, although some sources use birth years beginning as early as 1960 and ending somewhere from 1977 to 1984."
Gen X birth year 1964 to 1981 for our company’s stats etc.
That sounds official enough for me - I read Douglas Coupland novels and learned to program on a Research Machines Z80 so maybe proto-Gen X rather than full on
I wore out the programming possibilities of a ZX81 in a week and traded it in against a BBC Model B which lasted me about 10 years.
For anyone who's into their retrocomputing, there's still a ZX81 demoscene!! Not as big as the Commodore/Amiga or Speccie demoscenes, but arguably even more hardcore. Anyone with fondish 80s/earlys 90s memories of the limitations of their Spectrum or C64 or Amiga 500 should browse the demoscene vids on Youtube. What the masters can get out of that hardware is incredible, and every now and then some new tricks come along.
Bearing in mind the limitations of the ZX81, especially the fact it didn't originally come with a way to do "hi-res" i.e. pixel-by-pixel graphics (though ways around this have been found), the following demos are astonishing:
... I honestly lose track of all these titles. I was born in 1965. Is that Baby Boomer? Or Gen X? I think I ought to know so I can behave accordingly.
I was also born in 65 and would like a definitive ruling on this
It appears that there is no definitive year. According to Wikipedia the crossover is somewhere between 1960 and 1965.
"Generation X (or Gen X for short) is the demographic cohort following the baby boomers and preceding the Millennials. Researchers and popular media typically use birth years around 1965 to 1980 to define Generation Xers, although some sources use birth years beginning as early as 1960 and ending somewhere from 1977 to 1984."
Gen X birth year 1964 to 1981 for our company’s stats etc.
That sounds official enough for me - I read Douglas Coupland novels and learned to program on a Research Machines Z80 so maybe proto-Gen X rather than full on
I wore out the programming possibilities of a ZX81 in a week and traded it in against a BBC Model B which lasted me about 10 years.
Actually you can do a heck of a lot on a ZX81, very much doubt you "wore out the possibilities" in a week!! Still have no idea how 3D Monster Maze worked on that thing (though admittedly it didn't fit on 1 kB, needed the memory expansion).
It was way too limiting. I was at the start of my programming career and I needed a machine with halfway decent capabilities and more than one programming language. I had BCPL as well as BBC Pascal. BCPL was fun.
Nowadays, after a couple of decades, I have used more programming languages than enough. I always had a bit of a soft spot for System/36 OCL...
I learned to program in Cobol, PL/I and Assembler on an IBM System/360 running OS/360, release 16. Yup, that long ago.
Did you hold the punched tape up to the light to see where you needed to debug?
No paper tape. We did have a data cell though! We even had a 1401 in the computer room for legacy programs.
We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:
are over 70 have an underlying health condition are pregnant This advice is likely to be in place for some weeks....
But yes, social distancing is important for everyone to practice.
... I honestly lose track of all these titles. I was born in 1965. Is that Baby Boomer? Or Gen X? I think I ought to know so I can behave accordingly.
I was also born in 65 and would like a definitive ruling on this
It appears that there is no definitive year. According to Wikipedia the crossover is somewhere between 1960 and 1965.
"Generation X (or Gen X for short) is the demographic cohort following the baby boomers and preceding the Millennials. Researchers and popular media typically use birth years around 1965 to 1980 to define Generation Xers, although some sources use birth years beginning as early as 1960 and ending somewhere from 1977 to 1984."
Gen X birth year 1964 to 1981 for our company’s stats etc.
That sounds official enough for me - I read Douglas Coupland novels and learned to program on a Research Machines Z80 so maybe proto-Gen X rather than full on
I wore out the programming possibilities of a ZX81 in a week and traded it in against a BBC Model B which lasted me about 10 years.
Actually you can do a heck of a lot on a ZX81, very much doubt you "wore out the possibilities" in a week!! Still have no idea how 3D Monster Maze worked on that thing (though admittedly it didn't fit on 1 kB, needed the memory expansion).
It was way too limiting. I was at the start of my programming career and I needed a machine with halfway decent capabilities and more than one programming language. I had BCPL as well as BBC Pascal. BCPL was fun.
Nowadays, after a couple of decades, I have used more programming languages than enough. I always had a bit of a soft spot for System/36 OCL...
I learned to program in Cobol, PL/I and Assembler on an IBM System/360 running OS/360, release 16. Yup, that long ago.
Did you hold the punched tape up to the light to see where you needed to debug?
No paper tape. We did have a data cell though! We even had a 1401 in the computer room for legacy programs.
COBOL on an ICL 1900 for me back in 1981. Coding sheets, punch cards with no automatic sequencing (don't drop the deck before first compiliation!), 16kb module limit, 6 bit characters, 24 bit words, 8,388,608 was the largest value you could hold in a single word computational field...
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
Well now we know why this certainly isn't the Greatest Generation.
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Because when they go back to their house with Grandpa Eadric they'd probably kill him.
It is a serious question. The world is already skewed in terms of wealth, property, assets in favour of the old.
And now a nineteen year is being expected not to go out.
Maybe that is just about fine for a couple of weeks, but for two years, or more?
What has Grandpa Eadric ever done for the young ?
I recollect he was a pretty selfish, hard-partying bastard when he was young.
Well lots of old people are about to DIE, so maybe the world is rebalancing itself. And that's maybe a good thing. Albeit a bit tough on those that cop a particularly nasty death.
That's what bugs me about this bug. It's a really bad way to go. Drowning in your own lung fluid, over two days, alone in a ward full of other people dying, with no relatives of friends around, holding an iPad to say goodbye to everyone (that's what they do in Italian hospitals). The disease cruelly keeps you lucid to the bitter end.
And then they take your corpse and it is rapidly burned in Corpse Burning Unit 956XF, with no proper funeral.
Christ. I'd rather die at home of heroin. Ta v much.
if you described pretty much any illness in literal detail like that it would sound as scary.
Not true at all. Take cancer. Many cancer victims end up in a hospice where they are slowly euthanised with morphine. They gently drift away, submerged in opiates,a and hopefully their last vague memory is a blur of friendly, loving faces around the death-bed.
This is really not like that.
That does sound better!
Don't forget the hell of chemotherapy / surgery, often for years, that can (often does) precede the end. It's truly awful to see someone you love die of cancer.
My Dad has his biopsy next week to check the chemotherapy has worked. Today we saw on the news that non urgent ops are cancelled after April 15th, and when he realised this meant he still had to go he looked so disappointed, it has made me very teary
We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:
are over 70 have an underlying health condition are pregnant This advice is likely to be in place for some weeks....
But yes, social distancing is important for everyone to practice.
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Actually, I agree with you.
If I was 18 and desperate to get drunk and meet girls and have druggy fun, as I once was, how long would I tolerate sitting at home watching Netflix? Twonyears? No way.
The government will have to play this aspect carefully.
But Justin is 65 and it is inexcusable. Get home, have a biscuit, stop being a selfish arse.
Incidentally, as I said I did see SOME people in pubs on my evening walk - and most were over 40, if not over 50. Maybe there is some truth in the boomer/Gen X accusation.
I am glad you agree.
There is no way 18 years olds are going to sit at home worrying about coronavirus transmission rates for 2 weeks -- let alone for however long this goes on for.
And, I see their point of view. Why should they not dance and drink and screw?
Because their parents might end up dead?
If they're 18, their parents are probably 40-50. It is not a big risk.
OK, their grandparents.
Plenty of 40-50 years old are sending up on an ICU, plenty are being hospitalised with mild [sic] pneumonia. Who is to say this is not taking a significant lump of of their parents overall level of health, out of their remaining life expectancy.
What are the practical actions we can do to reduce our chances of getting pneumonia, and if we get it stop it requiring hospitalisation?
There's a pneumonia vaccine. It's available on demand to any over-65. So I asked for a vaccination, given the arrival of COVID-19. Incredibly, I was told that the NHS at least in Wales and W Midlands has been out of stock for 3-4 months.
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
This lockdown - is this the one of everyone over 70 and those with high risk conditions?
No, it's the one of EVERYONE.
Like in Italy and Spain and elsewhere.
It's the one that says Stay in your home apart from essential trips to doctors, to buy food, to go to crucial work.
It the Wuhan Clang. Life, as we know it, ends.
If you live near fields you can’t go for a run over them?
That isn’t the advice; this is - Social distancing measures are steps you can take to reduce the social interaction between people. This will help reduce the transmission of coronavirus (COVID-19).
They are:
Avoid contact with someone who is displaying symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19). These symptoms include high temperature and/or new and continuous cough Avoid non-essential use of public transport, varying your travel times to avoid rush hour, when possible Work from home, where possible. Your employer should support you to do this. Please refer to employer guidance for more information Avoid large gatherings, and gatherings in smaller public spaces such as pubs, cinemas, restaurants, theatres, bars, clubs Avoid gatherings with friends and family. Keep in touch using remote technology such as phone, internet, and social media Use telephone or online services to contact your GP or other essential services Everyone should be trying to follow these measures as much as is pragmatic....
Over 70s and at risk groups are encouraged just to stay at home for the next twelve weeks.
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
Just been for a drink at the local pub. Not very crowded. Average age about 35.
Idiots.
A friend who I've known for 50 years is finally getting married, a civil ceremony at his local registry office. He's asked me to do one of the readings and then join him and his relatives in a pub, which he expects to be airy and little-used in mid-afternoon.
I'm 70. I don't want to disappoint him on his special day, so I'll do the reading. But I'm thinking of jibbing at the pub. I feel a bit selfish and cowardly, but in a way think it's a reasonable compromise between friendship and health.
I imagine little decisions like that are being made all over the country. The small moral dilemmas of a changed world.
For those in London, the Hawksmoor restaurants have closed and some of their staff let go.
The first of many I suspect.
I don’t understand why any bar or restaurant is still open. We've been told not to go, they should not be facilitating bad behaviour.
The government has just told them that they can do takeaway food. So they’re doing exactly what the government is advising.
Either close and provide proper compensation - not loans repayable in 6 months (out of what income??).
Or allow them to provide alternative services and advise people about what they can do to protect their health and that of others, dependant on their risk factors.
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:
are over 70 have an underlying health condition are pregnant This advice is likely to be in place for some weeks....
But yes, social distancing is important for everyone to practice.
OK - that is what I thought. Thank you.
NigelB is wrong. I believe.
What he’s quoted is what the government advice is. For the moment.
For those in London, the Hawksmoor restaurants have closed and some of their staff let go.
The first of many I suspect.
I don’t understand why any bar or restaurant is still open. We've been told not to go, they should not be facilitating bad behaviour.
The government has just told them that they can do takeaway food. So they’re doing exactly what the government is advising.
Either close and provide proper compensation - not loans repayable in 6 months (out of what income??).
Or allow them to provide alternative services and advise people about what they can do to protect their health and that of others, dependant on their risk factors.
I would be interest on the medical view (foxy??) on take away food and the virus.
Several times this month I have hesitated over the delivery order of pizza or curry, worrying that someone had inadvertently coughed over my meal.
I ordered in the end, but for how much longer?
Does heat (eg a pizza oven) kill this evil little bat bastard?
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
No, the government is.
And how will they be compensated? The world is already skewed in favour of the elderly.
If this goes on for a protracted period of time, how are the old going to reward the young?
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
Just been for a drink at the local pub. Not very crowded. Average age about 35.
Idiots.
A friend who I've known for 50 years is finally getting married, a civil ceremony at his local registry office. He's asked me to do one of the readings and then join him and his relatives in a pub, which he expects to be airy and little-used in mid-afternoon.
I'm 70. I don't want to disappoint him on his special day, so I'll do the reading. But I'm thinking of jibbing at the pub. I feel a bit selfish and cowardly, but in a way think it's a reasonable compromise between friendship and health.
I imagine little decisions like that are being made all over the country. The small moral dilemmas of a changed world.
Going to the pub would be selfish. Indeed, having more than the 2 witnesses at the ceremony should be canned if they want to still have the wedding.
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Because when they go back to their house with Grandpa Eadric they'd probably kill him.
It is a serious question. The world is already skewed in terms of wealth, property, assets in favour of the old.
And now a nineteen year is being expected not to go out.
Maybe that is just about fine for a couple of weeks, but for two years, or more?
What has Grandpa Eadric ever done for the young ?
I recollect he was a pretty selfish, hard-partying bastard when he was young.
Well lots of old people are about to DIE, so maybe the world is rebalancing itself. And that's maybe a good thing. Albeit a bit tough on those that cop a particularly nasty death.
That's what bugs me about this bug. It's a really bad way to go. Drowning in your own lung fluid, over two days, alone in a ward full of other people dying, with no relatives of friends around, holding an iPad to say goodbye to everyone (that's what they do in Italian hospitals). The disease cruelly keeps you lucid to the bitter end.
And then they take your corpse and it is rapidly burned in Corpse Burning Unit 956XF, with no proper funeral.
Christ. I'd rather die at home of heroin. Ta v much.
if you described pretty much any illness in literal detail like that it would sound as scary.
Not true at all. Take cancer. Many cancer victims end up in a hospice where they are slowly euthanised with morphine. They gently drift away, submerged in opiates,a and hopefully their last vague memory is a blur of friendly, loving faces around the death-bed.
This is really not like that.
That does sound better!
Don't forget the hell of chemotherapy / surgery, often for years, that can (often does) precede the end. It's truly awful to see someone you love die of cancer.
My Dad has his biopsy next week to check the chemotherapy has worked. Today we saw on the news that non urgent ops are cancelled after April 15th, and when he realised this meant he still had to go he looked so disappointed, it has made me very teary
Watching someone you love fight that horrible bastard cancer can be debilitating, isam. At times over the past year I didn't know my arse from my elbow, all the while trying to be the cool, calm, I-can-fix-owt type of guy that I think I need to be. We're all facing a shite foreseeable future, so just let it go sometimes mate. Let's all get through this.
Newsnight presents clips of politicians' speeches accompanied by doom-laden music. I really think that is not called for. "Music" accompanying a serious report is a disservice to an audience looking for reliable information and thoughtful commentary.
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Because when they go back to their house with Grandpa Eadric they'd probably kill him.
It is a serious question. The world is already skewed in terms of wealth, property, assets in favour of the old.
And now a nineteen year is being expected not to go out.
Maybe that is just about fine for a couple of weeks, but for two years, or more?
What has Grandpa Eadric ever done for the young ?
I recollect he was a pretty selfish, hard-partying bastard when he was young.
Well lots of old people are about to DIE, so maybe the world is rebalancing itself. And that's maybe a good thing. Albeit a bit tough on those that cop a particularly nasty death.
That's what bugs me about this bug. It's a really bad way to go. Drowning in your own lung fluid, over two days, alone in a ward full of other people dying, with no relatives of friends around, holding an iPad to say goodbye to everyone (that's what they do in Italian hospitals). The disease cruelly keeps you lucid to the bitter end.
And then they take your corpse and it is rapidly burned in Corpse Burning Unit 956XF, with no proper funeral.
Christ. I'd rather die at home of heroin. Ta v much.
if you described pretty much any illness in literal detail like that it would sound as scary.
Not true at all. Take cancer. Many cancer victims end up in a hospice where they are slowly euthanised with morphine. They gently drift away, submerged in opiates,a and hopefully their last vague memory is a blur of friendly, loving faces around the death-bed.
This is really not like that.
That does sound better!
Don't forget the hell of chemotherapy / surgery, often for years, that can (often does) precede the end. It's truly awful to see someone you love die of cancer.
My Dad has his biopsy next week to check the chemotherapy has worked. Today we saw on the news that non urgent ops are cancelled after April 15th, and when he realised this meant he still had to go he looked so disappointed, it has made me very teary
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
No paper tape. We did have a data cell though! We even had a 1401 in the computer room for legacy programs.
COBOL on an ICL 1900 for me back in 1981. Coding sheets, punch cards with no automatic sequencing (don't drop the deck before first compiliation!), 16kb module limit, 6 bit characters, 24 bit words, 8,388,608 was the largest value you could hold in a single word computational field...
Ah, those were the days!
George II anyone? 2 character filenames! I hated that OS. It had a language that used decision tables for its logic, but I cannot recall the name.
RPG II, RPG/400, RPG IV, COBOL, C, C++, SQL, PHP, Python, Java, Javascript, Dataflex,... oh Synon/2 (that was a nice little earner)
We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:
are over 70 have an underlying health condition are pregnant This advice is likely to be in place for some weeks....
But yes, social distancing is important for everyone to practice.
OK - that is what I thought. Thank you.
NigelB is wrong. I believe.
What he’s quoted is what the government advice is. For the moment.
Yes, but the point we were all arguing is that the advice is about to change, drastically
ie lockdown
That’s really not clear at the moment. Lockdown for the over 79s and at risk groups, yes. But I’m not all clear on what will be proposed for the rest of us. I guess it depends to some extent on how many Justins are out there.
Exactly. Many of us in that age range have kids who are older teenagers and parents who are in their 70s or 80s and pretty fragile. The risk is that we pick the virus up off our kids and pass it on to our parents while caring for them.
We have no guarantee that a vaccine can be produced even within two years.
You don't have the right to erase two or more years of the lives of an entire generation of young people.
But you can literally erase the last 15 years of the life of a 70 year old who would otherwise have reached 85.
The 70 year old is asking the 19 year old not to do something. By what right?
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
Missing a party versus premature death. Get real.
It is not one party.
This will go on until there is a vaccine.
I'll just check with the ghost of Jeremy Bentham on how many parties are needed to achieve greater utility than avoiding premature death.
Perhaps someone could offer a spread bet on the result?
Things are getting rather insane. Good night all. Stay safe and help keep everyone else safe.
The government has specifically said DO NOT GO TO PUBS
Why do you think Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and many other countries have CLOSED all bars, restaurants, cafes, etc?
Is it for a laugh? Are they self harming their economies because they are over-reacting?
Coronavirus can go two ways. You lock it down and you get near to South Korea. You don't, and you become Iran. If people won't voluntarily isolate, the government has to step in, and lock us all up. Great.
The old world has gone and won't be back till there is a vaccine, two years away at least.
When you were young, you went to pubs, you drank and took drugs, you fell in love, you played in bands, you went to parties, you did wild and irresponsible things, no ?
Why should young people lose a year or two years out of their glorious youth in lockdown? They are not going to get seriously ill, anyhow.
Who are you -- an elderly Malvolio -- to say there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Justin is 65
I am talking about the young.
As there is no end to this without a vaccine, why should young people lose precious, glorious years of their lives stuck inside the house with Grandpa Eadric and his antiseptic gels.
Because when they go back to their house with Grandpa Eadric they'd probably kill him.
It is a serious question. The world is already skewed in terms of wealth, property, assets in favour of the old.
And now a nineteen year is being expected not to go out.
Maybe that is just about fine for a couple of weeks, but for two years, or more?
What has Grandpa Eadric ever done for the young ?
I recollect he was a pretty selfish, hard-partying bastard when he was young.
Well lots of old people are about to DIE, so maybe the world is rebalancing itself. And that's maybe a good thing. Albeit a bit tough on those that cop a particularly nasty death.
That's what bugs me about this bug. It's a really bad way to go. Drowning in your own lung fluid, over two days, alone in a ward full of other people dying, with no relatives of friends around, holding an iPad to say goodbye to everyone (that's what they do in Italian hospitals). The disease cruelly keeps you lucid to the bitter end.
And then they take your corpse and it is rapidly burned in Corpse Burning Unit 956XF, with no proper funeral.
Christ. I'd rather die at home of heroin. Ta v much.
if you described pretty much any illness in literal detail like that it would sound as scary.
Not true at all. Take cancer. Many cancer victims end up in a hospice where they are slowly euthanised with morphine. They gently drift away, submerged in opiates,a and hopefully their last vague memory is a blur of friendly, loving faces around the death-bed.
This is really not like that.
That does sound better!
Don't forget the hell of chemotherapy / surgery, often for years, that can (often does) precede the end. It's truly awful to see someone you love die of cancer.
My Dad has his biopsy next week to check the chemotherapy has worked. Today we saw on the news that non urgent ops are cancelled after April 15th, and when he realised this meant he still had to go he looked so disappointed, it has made me very teary
Comments
Not sure how that will be obeyed, if it is true.
The first of many I suspect.
Slip up?
Or another announcement due?
Brightened my day!
(though it is evolving still):
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults
Everyone should be trying to follow these measures as much as is pragmatic.
We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:
are over 70
have an underlying health condition
are pregnant
This advice is likely to be in place for some weeks....
But yes, social distancing is important for everyone to practice.
Ah, those were the days!
I am homeless as of Sunday and have to move to the place I have rented until mid-May on Monday. At which point I go into self-isolation.
The 19 year old is not asking anything of the 70 year old.
What about the love affairs that did not happen, the parties they did not go to, the bands they did not play in, while you enforce a lockdown for years of their youth ?
Social distancing measures are steps you can take to reduce the social interaction between people. This will help reduce the transmission of coronavirus (COVID-19).
They are:
Avoid contact with someone who is displaying symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19). These symptoms include high temperature and/or new and continuous cough
Avoid non-essential use of public transport, varying your travel times to avoid rush hour, when possible
Work from home, where possible. Your employer should support you to do this. Please refer to employer guidance for more information
Avoid large gatherings, and gatherings in smaller public spaces such as pubs, cinemas, restaurants, theatres, bars, clubs
Avoid gatherings with friends and family. Keep in touch using remote technology such as phone, internet, and social media
Use telephone or online services to contact your GP or other essential services
Everyone should be trying to follow these measures as much as is pragmatic....
Over 70s and at risk groups are encouraged just to stay at home for the next twelve weeks.
Startling.
I'm 70. I don't want to disappoint him on his special day, so I'll do the reading. But I'm thinking of jibbing at the pub. I feel a bit selfish and cowardly, but in a way think it's a reasonable compromise between friendship and health.
I imagine little decisions like that are being made all over the country. The small moral dilemmas of a changed world.
Either close and provide proper compensation - not loans repayable in 6 months (out of what income??).
Or allow them to provide alternative services and advise people about what they can do to protect their health and that of others, dependant on their risk factors.
On the other hand, dropping the pile of cards did get some odd results.
Several times this month I have hesitated over the delivery order of pizza or curry, worrying that someone had inadvertently coughed over my meal.
I ordered in the end, but for how much longer?
Does heat (eg a pizza oven) kill this evil little bat bastard?
If this goes on for a protracted period of time, how are the old going to reward the young?
Watching someone you love fight that horrible bastard cancer can be debilitating, isam. At times over the past year I didn't know my arse from my elbow, all the while trying to be the cool, calm, I-can-fix-owt type of guy that I think I need to be. We're all facing a shite foreseeable future, so just let it go sometimes mate. Let's all get through this.
Ah, that’s horrible. My sympathies.
This will go on until there is a vaccine.
RPG II, RPG/400, RPG IV, COBOL, C, C++, SQL, PHP, Python, Java, Javascript, Dataflex,... oh Synon/2 (that was a nice little earner)
I wish I was as good at human languages
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Lockdown for the over 79s and at risk groups, yes. But I’m not all clear on what will be proposed for the rest of us. I guess it depends to some extent on how many Justins are out there.
This thread is at the undertakers
Perhaps someone could offer a spread bet on the result?
Things are getting rather insane. Good night all. Stay safe and help keep everyone else safe.
Fingers crossed all best wishes.