politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With three hours to go before the Iowa caucuses Betfair punter

First like Bernie?

Bernie is too short.

Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

Philip_Thompson said:

Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.

Thanks what about the other questions?

Are they campaigning on constitutional change demanding a border poll while ignoring other issues, like the SNP? Or are they campaigning on more mundane domestic matters?

rottenborough said:

rcs1000 said:

Bernie is too short.

Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

Klobucher is 1.01 on BF

Hmmm: maybe you bet on her by simply selling Bernie at 1.62

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

eadric said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1224412476156059648

The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.

Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.

Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.

Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman

I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.

Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope

Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

rcs1000 said:

Bernie is too short.

Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

Klobucher is 1.01 on BF

Hmmm: maybe you bet on her by simply selling Bernie at 1.62

The last price matched was 95

rcs1000 said:

Bernie is too short.

Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar are all buys.

NYT, polling average has Biden & Sanders on 22, Buttigieg 18, Warren, 15.

So yeh, could go anyway and the latter are buys.

DavidL said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

eadric said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1224412476156059648

The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.

Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.

Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.

Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman

I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.

Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope

Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.

https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1224450721031938049/photo/1

DavidL said:

The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/sep/21/keir-starmer-director-public-prosecutions

"My background is not typical of a lawyer or a DPP," he says. "My dad was a toolmaker before he retired, so he worked in a factory all his life. My mum was a nurse, and she's been physically disabled for years."

Of course caring about his upbringing is bollocks. Johnson went to Eton for fucks sake.

rottenborough said:

Blimey. This is not looking good...

twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1224456028663599107/photo/1

I think this is very irresponsible of the Daily Mail. We shouldn't be telling potential terrorists how many people are likely overseeing them.

@eadric , @TheScreamingEagles

I was a bit puzzled by @eadrics comments on the previous page. Germany after 1945 was split into two jurisdictions (the GDR and the DDR) by the demands of a government outside the country. On unification one of them was reabsorbed into the other and the border ceased to exist

Similarly after 192blah Ireland was split into two jurisdictions (NI and SI, later the Irish Free State and so on) by the demands of a government outside the country. Should they unwisely (imho) vote for unification, one will be absorbed into the other and the border cease to exist

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

eadric said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1224412476156059648

The Saj has seriously underperformed to date. Being so precipitate on HS2 was unwise unless he had cover from No 10. His Autumn statement was just embarrassing. A lot depends on his budget. He really has to seize the moment and epitomise the Boris revolution.

Sajid is the most uncharismatic, untelegenic politician ever. He makes Teresa May look like a young, more compelling Marlon Brando.

It’s a shame cause I think he’s smart and he has a great and inspiring backstory. He’s an impressive dude CV-wise. But he’s so wooden he may get the chop, daboomtish

The Tories need more persuasive voices, and he doesn’t cut it.

Since becoming Chancellor , he has come across as surprisingly dim - Javid does not look the part at all and has little natural authority.With hindsight, I am finding it difficult to understand why Stephen Crabbe supported him for the leadership.

Compared with labour leadership and deputy leadership candidates he looks a fine statesman

I strongly disagree - Starmer has far more gravitas - and even beats him in terms of charisma.

Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London who did nothing on anti semitism while sitting alongside Corbyn in cabinet

Starmer is bland, has no charisma at all, and it says a lot at how bankrupt labour are when he is their best hope

Are you aware of Starmer's back story Big_G?

I'd have thought you'd respect the fact that he's achieved success from an ordinary unprivileged working class background.

The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

According to wiki: "He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, then a voluntary aided state school, although it converted to an independent fee-paying grammar school in 1976 while he was there."

Hardly puts him in the privleged elite, does it.

I did my 11+ a year earlier than Starmer and went to a voluntary aided state grammar school. Three years later its governors were given the choice of taking the school comprehensive or independent. They chose the former. Looks like Starmer’s chose the latter.

Starmer and Nandy the stand-outs ...
https://twitter.com/lukefrancis88/status/1224424807846109190?s=21

TheScreamingEagles said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Does anyone know how integrated the Republic's Sinn Fein party is with Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party?

And Sinn Fein signed the Good Friday Agreement 23 years ago agreeing to settle Ireland's future peacefully. Does the Republic's Sinn Fein stand by that? Does their manifesto and campaigning actually concentrate on constitutional issues [like the SNP] or does it concentrate on domestic matters?

Sinn Fein is organised on an all-Ireland basis. There is no "Northern Ireland" or "Republic" Sinn Fein.

Thanks what about the other questions?

Are they campaigning on constitutional change demanding a border poll while ignoring other issues, like the SNP? Or are they campaigning on more mundane domestic matters?

Sinn Féin will work for Irish Unity

The only people not talking about Irish Unity are the government. The institutions in the north are back up and running, we need a national forum, a citizens Assembly to have the discussion and we need to start the planning for the Unity referendum.

Sinn Féin will:

Seek the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

Publish a White Paper on Irish Unity.

Establish a Joint Oireachtas Committee on Irish Unity.

Secure a referendum, north and south, on Irish Unity.

But they have policies on other things.

https://www.sinnfein.ie/policies

Their third policy on that link, so clearly giving it high priority even if its not as high as the SNP.

rottenborough said:

Dems have a mountain to climb...

https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1224364807991652352

Yes and no.

You see, the one group of states where that's not true is... the rust belt.

Unemployment is rising in Pennsylvania, Michigan Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin, while it's heading ever lower in most of the rest of the country.

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

Dems have a mountain to climb...

https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1224364807991652352

Yes and no.

You see, the one group of states where that's not true is... the rust belt.

Unemployment is rising in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, while it's heading ever lower in most of the rest of the country.

Come on Dems! You screwed up 4 years ago ignoring these States, for the love of everything decent concentrate there now.

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

We need prisons in sub-saharan Africa for these people. Real redemption sometimes requires a big life change.

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together.

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Well I wouldn't. But a) that is the law, b) apparently May didn't see these people as being life long ideologues and c) the government have been far too concerned about the backlash from certain sections of the media (see how much incoming Boris got after London Bridge).

Hopefully they get their act together and make changes.

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

The government does get to set the law - and sentencing guidelines and early release policies etc

A start would be ensuring nobody gets early release without the parole board saying they are safe. For any crime not just terrorism.

Then some method of holding the parole board to account for recidivism for those they've deemed safe would be a good second step.

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

But these guys are getting out half way through.

CatMan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....

I think the most important thing we need to know about him is his opinion of the new Star Wars trilogy.

I imagine given his politics he is extremely in-favour of the strong female lead and the amount of diversity on show, and thus wouldn't dare to suggest that the stories were rather shit.

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....

D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.

CatMan said:

DavidL said:

The boy who attended an independent fee paying grammar school? That unprivileged working class boy?

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/sep/21/keir-starmer-director-public-prosecutions

"My background is not typical of a lawyer or a DPP," he says. "My dad was a toolmaker before he retired, so he worked in a factory all his life. My mum was a nurse, and she's been physically disabled for years."

Of course caring about his upbringing is bollocks. Johnson went to Eton for fucks sake.

But Boris isn't running to lead a socialist party that wants to wage class war on the rich...

DavidL said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

He definitely looks like the sort who likes nothing more than a spot of ColdPlay....

D’Arcy in Bridget Jones was allegedly very much based on him.

Really?

I was planning on doing a thread comparing Boris Johnson to Daniel Cleaver and Sir Keir as Mark D'Arcy.

Philip_Thompson said:

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

The government does get to set the law - and sentencing guidelines and early release policies etc

A start would be ensuring nobody gets early release without the parole board saying they are safe. For any crime not just terrorism.

Then some method of holding the parole board to account for recidivism for those they've deemed safe would be a good second step.

I assumed that was how it worked already.

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion

But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?

Philip_Thompson said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.

And why do you think they are let out early?

From this morning:-

“ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

We are not honest with the public about this.

We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion

But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?

Obviously not!

TheScreamingEagles said:

SandyRentool said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together.

I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

*Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.

I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...

When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.

I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because you can only jail people for the length of the sentence given them by the judge.

There are - in exception circumstances - whole life, or indeterminate, sentences. But the government doesn't get the choice to decide someone has to stay in prison longer than their sentence.

Well the judges who sentence people that are not fit for release upon serving the time they thought appropriate should face some kind of stewards enquiry with possible demotion

But they're constrained too. There are specific ranges for offences. If a judge gives the maximum sentence allowed for the offence, are you still going to give them a stewards enquiry?

Plus the people who decide if they are fit for release are not the judges but the parole board.

Once they've been sentenced, that kinda ends the role of the judge.

Cyclefree said:

Philip_Thompson said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

This country is a joke sometimes. Fair enough to try to rehabilitate criminals but unrehabilitated criminals whose sentence isn't spent should be behind bars.

And why do you think they are let out early?

From this morning:-

“ The reason criminals - not just those with terrorism on their mind - get released halfway through their sentence is that we do not have enough prison places to keep them in for their whole sentence. This part of the criminal justice system has, in common with many others, been woefully underfunded for years. And so - rather than spend the money - laws are passed making automatic early release the norm.

We are not honest with the public about this.

We then get into a moral panic when something like this happens and thrash around looking for people to blame. Lawyers are a favourite group though it is not the legal profession which determines how much is spent on criminal justice. Or judges - though their sentencing decisions are much more tightly controlled than the public often realises. Or the probation service - which has been pretty much ruined by that fool, Grayling. Or the intelligence services. Or pretty much anyone.

But the reality is that if you want a criminal justice system that investigates, prosecutes, sentences and incarcerates people properly and then takes effective steps to ensure they are not a threat when released, you need to fund all parts of the system properly, you need to get high quality people in to do the work at every level and you need to be honest with the public about what is involved and what is realistic. And you also need to be honest about the choices and trade-offs involved: between public protection and individual rights, between liberty and security etc.

We do none of these things. Instead our politicians posture and preen and come up with silly ignorant or uninformed sound bites. So we get a broken second-rate system which pleases no-one and does not achieve what it ought while we preen ourselves about being such a great country. We really need to take a good clear look at ourselves. Fat chance.”.

The government is proposing to change the laws on early release. Will they also fund the prison places needed and the Parole Board and the probation service? Or, having imposed cuts of 40% in their budgets, will they continue with their current policy of demanding a further 5% cut on top?

As always, @Cyclefree nails it.

DavidL said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.

Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?

isam said:

DavidL said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.

Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?

Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

DavidL said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.

Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?

Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.

Yes and the longer they spend in Belmarsh...

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

rcs1000 said:

From USA Today:

Des Moines native Colyn Burbank hosted a mixture of Iowans, observers and press, at his apartment in Glasgow for one of the three International caucus events aimed at helping Democrats pick someone who can beat President Donald Trump in 2020.

On a blustery and rainy Monday, 20 Iowans showed up at Burbanks' residence in Scotland's capital to express their preference for who should be the Democrats' next standard-bearer. Despite a Friday NBC/WSJ national poll that showed Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden statistically tied, the former vice president did not receive a single vote.

Scottish PBers, when did this happen???

Well, it is the biggest city - and it has Underground trains!

The Clockwork Orange. They made a film about it, I believe.

"There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Dom, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our Raab-oodocks what to do with the evening.

"The Kensington Milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus GM Soya or Corn Syrup or Chlorinated Chicken, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old No-deal Brexit."

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SandyRentool said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together.

I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

*Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.

I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...

When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.

I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?

It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.

And very humble to boot.

Indeed, apparently I have a way with words which sticks in the minds of people.

Not many people open a report with 'Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'

rcs1000 said:

isam said:

DavidL said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.

Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?

Part of the problem, of course, is that a lot of the violent Islamic terrorists in the UK were radicalised in prison.

Maybe we could try converting them to Zen Buddhism?

We always come back to prisons costing too much. That's why I strongly feel that prisons for the worst, violent crimes should be moved to Africa. The remainder should be built in the UK's forgotten towns, and work for prisoners should be integral. Paid minimum wage, charged for board and lodging, the rest to spend or save for release.

marke0903 said:

According to CNN there is an IOWA caucus being held in Scotland tonight

There are also caucus' in the Caucasus.

DavidL said:

isam said:

DavidL said:

isam said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

However, despite being followed by armed police, the terrorist was able to get his hands on a 10-inch knife with a white handle, which he stole from a shop, and attack two people on Streatham High Road before being shot dead by police.

Authorities are now refusing to explain why Amman was able to get his hands on the blade - despite being trailed by officers - or give any more details on the surveillance operation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7962565/Police-refuse-explain-Streatham-terrorist-Sudesh-Amman-got-close-knife.html

FFS...unless they literally stand next to a suspect day and night, going into a random shop and grabbing a knife off the shelf is always going to be possible. He was neutralized within 60s of going into the shop.

Are we going to shoot any of them that pop out to buy some new kitchenware? Cos we know what the outcry would be like.

Why let out prisoners who require such close surveillance?

Because that’s the law and we are a law abiding country?

He was in jail for having downloaded objectionable material off the internet, nothing actually violent. Were we going to keep him locked up indefinitely? This is not as straightforward as the press and some in government are claiming.

Well if all he did was some minor infringement, why all the surveillance when he was released?

Clearly they thought that he was a threat and they were right. But do you really want to live in a country where you can be locked up indefinitely because someone in authority has deemed you a threat?

No, but if this fellow was let out early whilst being deemed dangerous enough to require such surveillance, something’s not right.

Was he let out early?

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SandyRentool said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

Fair enough. My stressing his being self-made (I'd hardly say he's ordinary) was really in response to Big_G's "Starmer, the knighted millionaire human rights lawyer from London" comment.

The bigger question for me is when will @Charles's mum spill the beans on the alleged skeletons in Starmer's cupboard?

Sir Keir Starmer likes pineapple on his pizzas.

Come on... all you working class privately educated chaps need to stick together.

I'm more prolier than thou and Sir Keir.

I have a Yorkshire accent*, so I must be working class.

*Actually it is morphing into a Mancunian accent. I'm mortified.

I am picturing a cross between Sean Bean and Bez...

When I'm at work I'm told I'm sounding a lot like Mike Atherton.

I've been offered a transfer/promotion at work, one option is to go live and work in Edinburgh, the option is to work and live in London.

I did five years in London, and didn't develop an accent.

I thought you only recently started at this new work after your long gardening leave?

It is a transfer/promotion with the same company.

Apparently I'm very impressive in my job.

And very humble to boot.

Indeed, apparently I have a way with words which sticks in the minds of people.

Not many people open a report with 'Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'

Bugger - you've just made me Google that to check the spelling...

What's Mrs P going to think when she does the weekly review of my search history? 😱

Blame PB, I used a similar line in a PB thread last year.

‘Never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt’ is a maxim that has served me well in life, I might revise that maxim to ‘Never trust anybody who says a no deal Brexit will be fine.’ I suspect many MPs are also guided by the latter maxim.

https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/06/30/if-boris-johnson-tries-to-deliver-on-his-promise-of-a-no-deal-brexit-on-halloween-then-a-vote-of-no-confidence-seems-inevitable/