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  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85
    edited December 2019
    Ignore, error.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Byronic said:

    Been travelling for 24 hours.... back in London, I am surprised to see the Tory pessimism on here. And I am prone to pressimism.

    Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.

    This is surely a result of the Neil interview and the aftermath.

    We are just 11 campaigning days from the GE. The Tories are 10-11 points ahead of a party led by a widely reviled leader. This is not cause for complacency, but it is surely cause for very timid OPTimism,

    Yes, I've said it for the last few days. Labour's onslaught of bribes resulted in a 2 point swing in their favour, around half of that seems to have unwound. They have nothing left in their cupboard that will move votes and people are drifting back towards the Tories. Corbyn is on the wrong side of the argument wrt terrorists and Boris is a lot better at delivering a human answer than May was in 2017 in the same circumstances. He's got the right answer already "terrorists will never be allowed out early and we will lock them up forever and a day if necessary" is not something May would have said. She would have dithered and come up with some technical reason as to why it wouldn't be possible to do that, by then Jez would have something to say that didn't sound completely baffling.

    The essence of this campaign is completely different to 2017.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    Well, it is a Tory council :lol:
    Funnily it was the Independents who were accused of being rats in the last parliament...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    In our case it is not a problem as we do recycle a lot but it is a big problem for families

    And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
    Our local Lib Dems went heavily for the "Brown Bin Tax" in the most recent district council elections.

    The Tories were subsequently thrown out and replaced by a red-yellow coalition.
  • speedy2 said:

    Lets all talk to HYUFD about it, he might convince the Conservatives to announce something about it next week.
    Honestly, the street lighting thing is the worst. Have they done it for others on here? At least half, and in places all, lights go off after a certain time. In other words precisely when you most need the sodding things!
  • It is run by the Tories & independents, I think.
    Yes they are in coalition
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    nunu2 said:

    Nigel Farage doing best here.

    Burgon is laughable.

    Farage is a powerful bully but I think he is destroying the debate Burgon is an idiot. sturgeon doing well.
  • Ooops. Right-wing Tory-boy council, sorry :)
    No it is not a right wing tory boy council. It is a coalition
  • JamesPJamesP Posts: 85
    Byronic said:

    Been travelling for 24 hours.... back in London, I am surprised to see the Tory pessimism on here. And I am prone to pressimism.

    Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.


    But we saw a tweet from a Corbynite canvasser saying that things feel really good on the ground in Hackney!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Honestly, the street lighting thing is the worst. Have they done it for others on here? At least half, and in places all, lights go off after a certain time. In other words precisely when you most need the sodding things!
    Ah, but it's very green. Good for energy efficiency. Good for night-flying insects. And, if people get run over on the roads and killed as a result, they stop consuming the planet's finite resources and become compost instead. Everyone's a winner!
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    No real surprises in the ITV debate so far though Burgon coming off worst

    Agreed. And your robot boy already bested Farage and sturgeon in exchanges.
    Swinson coming out best, but why is she always on edge of stage 😕 Why Tory robot always in middle, always gets first chance to answer. Every time etchy goes to him to answer first, that is disgraceful you agree HY? He gets more come back opportunities and speaking time than anyone else.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2019
    JamesP said:

    But we saw a tweet from a Corbynite canvasser saying that things feel really good on the ground in Hackney!
    As Hackney goes, so goes the nation.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    No it is not a right wing tory boy council. It is a coalition
    of right wing tory boys and right wing independent boys.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    As Hackney goes, so goes the nation.
    I thought that was Bootle? :o
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/what-are-jo-swinsons-liberal-democrats-so-desperate-to-hide/

    I've been wondering for a while what the lib dems actually stand for, but this election has opened my eyes: it's deception.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Yes - weekly
    I get my bins entered every night in summer and six nights a week in winter, but then I don’t live in the UK. My council tax is €500 pa with a degree of thought anything is possible or are you to lazy to walk at most 50 to 100 ?meters to the bin
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    edited December 2019

    Ah, but it's very green. Good for energy efficiency. Good for night-flying insects. And, if people get run over on the roads and killed as a result, they stop consuming the planet's finite resources and become compost instead. Everyone's a winner!
    No street lights in our village. We manage fine. Lovely starry skies as side benefit.
    Buy a torch and get over it.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Swinson has no authority about her, just a grown up version of a teachers pet. Sunak is on message but knows the script inside out. I like the Plaid guy’s voice, green woman away with the fairies on immigration but like Sturgeon knows her crowd. If Burgon was part of a Labour strategy to win round Lab leavers I’m not sure he’s working. A northern accent just isn’t enough.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    As Hackney goes, so goes the nation.
    Oh fucking hell, our high streets aren't all about to be taken over by avant garde art collectives and cereal cafes, are they?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    of right wing tory boys and right wing independent boys.
    Why sexiest
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Why sexiest
    I don't know, I've just always been that way.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    This really is the stuff that matters. Round my way a promise to restore weekly bin collections and reinstate proper street lighting would get a majority for anyone.
    Yes, but this election is for an MP to sit in Parliament. Bin collections and street lighting are issues for local elections to the council that makes these decisions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    egg said:

    Agreed. And your robot boy already bested Farage and sturgeon in exchanges.
    Swinson coming out best, but why is she always on edge of stage 😕 Why Tory robot always in middle, always gets first chance to answer. Every time etchy goes to him to answer first, that is disgraceful you agree HY? He gets more come back opportunities and speaking time than anyone else.
    He is getting about the same speaking time as Swinson, Sturgeon, Burgon and Farage
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    No street lights in our village. We manage fine. Lovely starry skies as side benefit.
    Buy a torch and get over it.
    When I go out to the sticks to visit my Mum there are no street lights either, but then again there's very little traffic and the night time economy consists of one pub. People's concerns about this aren't entirely risible.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Ah, but it's very green. Good for energy efficiency. Good for night-flying insects. And, if people get run over on the roads and killed as a result, they stop consuming the planet's finite resources and become compost instead. Everyone's a winner!
    Oh come on the last place I lived in the streets went out at midnight and we had to navigate our way home from the pub in the dark, nobody was killed but I did fall over occasionally but not as a result of the lights being off.
  • nichomar said:

    I get my bins entered every night in summer and six nights a week in winter, but then I don’t live in the UK. My council tax is €500 pa with a degree of thought anything is possible or are you to lazy to walk at most 50 to 100 ?meters to the bin
    Not sure about walking to bins as we do not have communal bins. Each home has a food waste container, a 3 section trolley block and a bin

    And my council tax is £2,700 for this year
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    It is really upsetting that the two people in Fishmongers Hall were so young and had so much positivity to offer for the future.
    It may well be the fault of Corbyn and Labour and they should be held to account and apologise for it should that be the case. However, I was disturbed by the casuality of Boris' use of language during the Marr Show. The term 'leftie' as used when apportioning blame for the incident struck me as spoken by someone who really didn't care.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    nichomar said:

    Won’t answer the wto exit end of 2010 issue hiding behind claiming they have deal, this is the biggest con unless they sign up for total alignment with the EU it’s going to take a lot longer than five months, which is all they have before having to ask for an extension.

    Because the opposition politicians just shout "no deal" If they were smarter they would be shouting "No trade deal."
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Not sure about walking to bins as we do not have communal bins. Each home has a food waste container, a 3 section trolley block and a bin

    And my council tax is £2,700 for this year
    You don’t have communal bins but I bet with some thought 60% could have. The refuse collection team is 1 driver and two operators who hook up the grundons highly efficient but do occasionally wake me up at four in the morning in the summer,
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,928
    edited December 2019

    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    I assume it depends on the number of polls used for the average
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Sandpit said:

    Yes, but this election is for an MP to sit in Parliament. Bin collections and street lighting are issues for local elections to the council that makes these decisions.
    Except that, because central Government rather than local taxation supplies so much of the local Government budget, this could be argued to be a General Election issue. Councils commonly blame cost cutting measures like long bin collection periods and turning off the lights on lack of cash.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    i'm not watching the debate although the wife is.

    Her view is

    Sturgeon best by a mile.

    Burgon the worst by a mile

    Others "all good"
  • What's the more accurate prediction tool for general election results out of hypothetical polls and European election results?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    Because Wiki is always right.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    nichomar said:

    Oh come on the last place I lived in the streets went out at midnight and we had to navigate our way home from the pub in the dark, nobody was killed but I did fall over occasionally but not as a result of the lights being off.
    Ah, that classic lack of joined up thinking, as seen by many councils. Change pub closing time from 11 to 1 or 2am, but still switch off the street lights at midnight.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    He gets his steer from Milne

    I read something about Milne today and he really is the worst of a bad lot.
  • nichomar said:

    You don’t have communal bins but I bet with some thought 60% could have. The refuse collection team is 1 driver and two operators who hook up the grundons highly efficient but do occasionally wake me up at four in the morning in the summer,
    It is not in our tradition to have communal bins unless you are living in apartment blocks and in our village the vast majority of properties are houses and bungalows

    Believe you me if anyone suggested such a scheme there would be uproar

    To be honest for us the system works well
  • Floater said:

    i'm not watching the debate although the wife is.

    Her view is

    Sturgeon best by a mile.

    Burgon the worst by a mile

    Others "all good"

    Farage wiping the floor with the anti US gang of Swinson,Burgon & Sturgeon.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    No complaints on the bins here. Camden council has absolutely nailed it in this department. Pick them up every Tuesday morning like clockwork. Empty them and put them back where they came from. It's impressive.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    Why only use the last six polls?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Men say some awful things sometimes as Farage tries to defend trump and the unknown Tory fails to condemn him, audience at last reacts.
  • This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    Adam Price! 👍
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    Yay, Spanish Stroll is one of my fave singles.
    I recommend the acoustic album (mainly recorded live in Berlin) from the early noughties. Unfortunately very difficult to get hold of, but readily accessed on youtube.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,750
    edited December 2019
    [moderated]

    No unsubstantiated claims like this please. -PB Moderator
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/what-are-jo-swinsons-liberal-democrats-so-desperate-to-hide/

    I've been wondering for a while what the lib dems actually stand for, but this election has opened my eyes: it's deception.

    To be fair they always fought dirty - but this time they have been exposed to sunlight
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Farage wiping the floor with the anti US gang of Swinson,Burgon & Sturgeon.
    With his view that it’s ok is for men to say some awful things about women I think he has just destroyed what little reputation he had.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Except that, because central Government rather than local taxation supplies so much of the local Government budget, this could be argued to be a General Election issue. Councils commonly blame cost cutting measures like long bin collection periods and turning off the lights on lack of cash.
    That sounds like an excellent reason for more devolution to local authorities, let them raise more of their own cash and choose how to spend it.
    Actually, a lot of the recent bin madness is down to EU directives on waste disposal and landfill.
  • ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    Rounded that is 10%
  • Except that, because central Government rather than local taxation supplies so much of the local Government budget, this could be argued to be a General Election issue. Councils commonly blame cost cutting measures like long bin collection periods and turning off the lights on lack of cash.
    Fortnightly collection and grass collection charges are in the hands of local government, but the requirement to align with the ponzi landfill tax credits system, and even the suggested food waste collection proposals means that with councils limited to inflation 2% increases the means to fund them must come directly.
    PS. recycling is a money changing hands scam most of the time.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,604
    RobD said:

    I am a pineapple pizza lover, and I approve of this message.
    😱
    Worse even than chocolate sprinkled on coffee.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Burgon is the Tories best gift. This will get decent viewing figures too.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    rcs1000 said:

    You'd rate Schubert ahead of Thom Yorke?

    That's a gutsy call on here. People have been banned for less.
    I would rate Boney M ahead of Thom Yorke - at least their version of Heart of Gold. :)
  • America bombed Libya in 1986 and Iraq in 1991.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Seems Tories have stepped up their twitter game.

    Have they finally woken up in the final two weeks? 😂
  • Rounded that is 10%
    Yes, that's true :)
  • [moderated]

    No unsubstantiated claims like this please. -PB Moderator

    He is lots of things but I have not heard that one
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    alb1on said:

    I would rate Boney M ahead of Thom Yorke - at least their version of Heart of Gold. :)
    Goodbye Alb 👋🏻
  • nichomar said:

    With his view that it’s ok is for men to say some awful things about women I think he has just destroyed what little reputation he had.
    Farage said that ???
  • Farage wiping the floor with the anti US gang of Swinson,Burgon & Sturgeon.
    Have the US sent over Mrs Sacoolas yet?
  • Survation… must have Survation...
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,750

    He is lots of things but I have not heard that one
    Cheers, I'll put it down to over-excitement.
  • After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    alb1on said:

    I recommend the acoustic album (mainly recorded live in Berlin) from the early noughties. Unfortunately very difficult to get hold of, but readily accessed on youtube.
    I’ve never heard of him but if you mean Unplugged in Berlin, it’s freely available on Spotify.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Sandpit said:

    That sounds like an excellent reason for more devolution to local authorities, let them raise more of their own cash and choose how to spend it.
    Actually, a lot of the recent bin madness is down to EU directives on waste disposal and landfill.
    But at the moment (I think) council tax rates are capped and central government funding is continually reduced. The local council is faced every year with making choices, quite correctly, between competing priorities and are in a no win situation whatever color they are.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    nunu2 said:

    Seems Tories have stepped up their twitter game.

    Have they finally woken up in the final two weeks? 😂

    What have they done? :p
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    From their poll yesterday which saw Labour down and the Tories up :)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited December 2019
    nichomar said:

    With his view that it’s ok is for men to say some awful things about women I think he has just destroyed what little reputation he had.
    He didn't say it was ok, he said it happens and - quite specifically - that it is unacceptable. Please don't make misrepresentations of that kind.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    nico67 said:

    No one really cares about these debates without Corbyn and Johnson .

    Burgon is really annoying , I find his voice grates but clearly they’ve stuck on a Labour MP from the north with the appropriate accent to appeal to Labour Leave voters .

    It's the way he says Tories
  • NovoNovo Posts: 60

    Rounded that is 10%
    You cannot selectively delete polls you don’t like. Rounded these are both 9% and the same given the MOE.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    felix said:

    From their poll yesterday which saw Labour down and the Tories up :)
    Boris is keeping the legions of the blue rinse brigade on standby.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    I assume it depends on the number of polls used for the average
    If you use the wikipedia list you cannot get those results with any consistent number of consecutive polls in both years.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,969

    Ah, but it's very green. Good for energy efficiency. Good for night-flying insects. And, if people get run over on the roads and killed as a result, they stop consuming the planet's finite resources and become compost instead. Everyone's a winner!
    You can save a lot of money by turning them off at night
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    RobD said:

    What have they done? :p
    Just upped their number of tweets and the quality.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Because they can never be seen to be wrong..they are brazen beyond belief and I think.it is institutionalized within the party..the Millwall of the political.system
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IshmaelZ said:

    He didn't say it was ok, he said it happens and - quite specifically - that it is unacceptable. Please don't make misrepresentations of that kind.
    I didn’t hear the ‘it’s unacceptable’
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,415
    edited December 2019
    Novo said:

    You cannot selectively delete polls you don’t like. Rounded these are both 9% and the same given the MOE.
    9.7% rounded up is 10%. I haven't included Survation because they only publish late on the Sunday. In other words it doesn't exist - yet!
    An ELBOW week runs from Monday to Sunday, you see.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,604
    rcs1000 said:

    With the exception of Jin Kichi, there are no good restaurants in Hampstead. Which is quite extraordinary, when you think about it.
    The Wells Tavern is good.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    timmo said:

    Because they can never be seen to be wrong..they are brazen beyond belief and I think.it is institutionalized within the party..the Millwall of the political.system
    Yes tories are paragons of virtue never do anything wrong and are open and welcoming to none Tory councilors who get elected. Lovely people
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,667


    It is not in our tradition to have communal bins unless you are living in apartment blocks and in our village the vast majority of properties are houses and bungalows

    Believe you me if anyone suggested such a scheme there would be uproar

    To be honest for us the system works well

    I've tried both - in Haslemere around a dozen homes shared a common bin area (gated to avoid foxes getting at the bins), while where I live in Godalming we have individual bins. I preferred the Haslemere solution, as you could drop rubbish in any day of the week, and when the rubbish was collected was a matter of indifference to us - they could have gone over to 4-weekly and it would have been fine. Cluttering up every home with individual bins and trundling them in and out is as tiresome as having a boiler of doubtful quality in every home instead of district heating. But clearly joint solutions only work if the homes are reasonably close together.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
    And Lockerbie in 1988, another Libyan bomb in the U.K.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
    Didn’t we bomb Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998 as well?
  • After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
    Well, innocent civilians - lots of them - were killed by US bombs in both nations, no?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    edited December 2019
    IanB2 said:

    You can save a lot of money by turning them off at night
    Ummmm...
    My favourite on this, to be serious, was a village council who turned street lights off for three days as an economy measure. It saved £18 but there were two £15 fees to disconnect and reconnect them. It cost £12 to spend three days nights in darkness.

    Edited after I noticed how stupid my chosen word was...
  • Tory majority drifting out a bit again
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    alb1on said:

    I would rate Boney M ahead of Thom Yorke - at least their version of Heart of Gold. :)
    Thank you for that, I had no idea that existed.

    Nothing will ever persuade me that Mink DeVille was not the Byronic to Lou Reed's SeanT.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    Has Richard Burgon changed Labour's defence policy on live TV just before the NATO summit?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    dr_spyn said:

    Has Richard Burgon changed Labour's defence policy on live TV just before the NATO summit?

    What did he say?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Sandpit said:

    And Lockerbie in 1988, another Libyan bomb in the U.K.
    How do you rewind 1000 years of history? I’ve no idea but a start would be to see all religious leaders sit down together and provide a united force for peace. It would help if all religions withdrew from front line politics, it would help if we were more tolerant of our differences and it would help if politicians did not use those differences for their own advantage. It’s probably impossible but until people stop gaming religion to their advantage we won’t get anywhere.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    nichomar said:


    I didn’t hear the ‘it’s unacceptable’

    Drowned out by the screeching.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    I've just found THE BET of the election
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    I find it most extraordinary that all these other leftie parties are ganging up on Labour and giving the Tory a free ride. Fantastic to watch leftie on leftie action though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,415
    edited December 2019
    Sandpit said:

    And Lockerbie in 1988, another Libyan bomb in the U.K.
    And the Iran Air shoot-down by the US, five months earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

This discussion has been closed.