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I can't remember anything disastrous or Pyhrric about it besides permitting May to become PM but she's gone now good riddance.Foxy said:
A Phyrric victory and a disastrous government though.MaxPB said:
We won a majority and destroyed the Lib Dems. It was a good campaign.Foxy said:
Remind me how well that government went...MaxPB said:
We're definitely rerunning the 2015 election campaign.SandyRentool said:I'm amazed he said 'coalition of chaos'.
Was he trolling Cammo?0 -
Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.
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No, the Conservatives are in denial about student debt and how much is now being dumped on the government borrowing.Philip_Thompson said:
It wouldn't surprise me to see it dealt with in the next Parliament but I think they might have worried about a 'dementia tax' style blow up if they'd announced anything during this campaign.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They just don't want to think about it or talk about it or take any action about it.0 -
So if they lose the appeal labour will pay them on the grounds they are righting a wrong which the courts have said is not a wrongRobD said:
From what I read it didn't sound as though there was much chance of the appeal succeeding, unless the first judge got it totally wrong?Floater said:
They did lose, but are appealingRobD said:
Didn't they have their high court case thrown out? I'm not sure why Labour are banging on about there being an injustice...Theuniondivvie said:Another mile down the road to Damascus for SLab. Marvellous that Richard Leonard who worked for the GMB when they conspired with Glasgow City Council to shaft low paid women out of hundreds of millions of pounds has now seen the light.
https://twitter.com/LabourRichard/status/1198367174429233153?s=20
The Labour drone interviewed by Marr earlier had to say "if they win their court case"
Good luck with that0 -
Foxy said:
A Phyrric victory and a disastrous government though.MaxPB said:
We won a majority and destroyed the Lib Dems. It was a good campaign.Foxy said:
Remind me how well that government went...MaxPB said:
We're definitely rerunning the 2015 election campaign.SandyRentool said:I'm amazed he said 'coalition of chaos'.
Was he trolling Cammo?
Nah, we won, got a leave vote and we're hopefully about to leave. And we smashed the Lib Dems to pieces. Hoping this time we go one better and put them to bed completely.Foxy said:
A Phyrric victory and a disastrous government though.MaxPB said:
We won a majority and destroyed the Lib Dems. It was a good campaign.Foxy said:
Remind me how well that government went...MaxPB said:
We're definitely rerunning the 2015 election campaign.SandyRentool said:I'm amazed he said 'coalition of chaos'.
Was he trolling Cammo?0 -
They used to be linked to RPI, so neutral in real terms. Maybe add 1%, but 6% is just silly. From memory it was a too-clever Osborne wheeze to help package them and sell them off as if they were bonds. The problem is that the delinquency rate is horrific - especially among EU students, Brits who have emigrated and those now self-employed or working for their own company.RobD said:
This would be a good policy. I don't think the cost of the loan shouldn't grow in real terms.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.0 -
Dr. Foxy, Pyrrhic*.
Good general, damned unlucky to have his name associated with a victory not worth having.0 -
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.0 -
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.5 -
Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?0
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I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.0 -
Afternoon fellow PBers and having just watched the Tory manifesto launch on SKY News, that is one hell of a tagline Ed Conway the Business editor has just tweeted: "For every £1 the Conservatives have pledged to spend, Labour has said it will spend £28!"0
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What's the cost of these nurses, 750 million ?0
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Not online yet. Should appear on https://vote.conservatives.com/news shortly.rottenborough said:Anyone got a link to the pdf for the manifesto?
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To win votes. It just means other taxes will go up, stamp duty, anti-landlord activities etc...rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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Do they ever do polling on how manifestos go down with regions? I would be interested to see how this manifesto goes with Wales, the North and the Midlands, areas Johnson needs to win.0
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We're taxed enough already.rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.0 -
Indeed and I'm saying being fiscally responsible should appeal more to young people.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.
The government borrowing billions to bribe overentitled WASPI boomers would be paid for by you and me - not by older voters.3 -
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.1 -
The LibDems and the SNP will never agree to it though....CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.0 -
CorrectHorseBattery said:
"I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people."
Fiscal prudence should attract voters of any age.2 -
I see a massive amount of new development in Brexit / Blue Labour central while the SE becomes ever more overcrowded and unaffordable.Foxy said:
So it does seem as if the Tory commitment to left behind towns is going to be lip service. Let them eat Brexit, while the SE prospers.wooliedyed said:The massive difference in spending commitments is of course deliberate, its aimed to make Labours 28 times higher commitments look suicidal for the economy and feed into that narrative
I'm happy to keep things that way.
Don't know about other parts of the country though.0 -
Tbh, the student loans system needs a complete rethink. The 6% interest rate is usurious and graduates are getting a very poor deal. Also marketising degrees has given students far too much power and turned them into consumers rather than students. When I went to uni, if it made an unpopular decision it was a case of "deal with it" now they be d over backwards to accommodate even the most ridiculous of demands lest they lose the £9k fees.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.3 -
Game over?NorthCadboll said:Afternoon fellow PBers and having just watched the Tory manifesto launch on SKY News, that is one hell of a tagline Ed Conway the Business editor has just tweeted: "For every £1 the Conservatives have pledged to spend, Labour has said it will spend £28!"
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Actually, you are not. I am though!Philip_Thompson said:
We're taxed enough already.rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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More nurses and rozzers and no tax cuts for the rich southern dandies. It will be seen as practical I'd imagine with the added bonus of getting Brexit doneCorrectHorseBattery said:Do they ever do polling on how manifestos go down with regions? I would be interested to see how this manifesto goes with Wales, the North and the Midlands, areas Johnson needs to win.
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That isn't appealing though, for whatever reason.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed and I'm saying being fiscally responsible should appeal more to young people.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.
The government borrowing billions to bribe overentitled WASPI boomers would be paid for by you and me - not by older voters.
You're not addressing my point, this isn't an attack on Labour, I'm saying if the Tories kept their spending plans but also proposed scrapping the interest rate on student loans they'd get more students voting for them.
Your point of "well they should be appealing" isn't grounded in reality, I'm just telling you what they could do if they wanted to. Whether it's deliverable or not really isn't relevant to this discussion.0 -
CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.</bloPhilip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.0 -
are we going to see the magic money tree with Labours commitments hanging from it?0
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We're going to need a bigger tree.squareroot2 said:are we going to see the magic money tree with Labours commitments hanging from it?
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Such a Tory shill...
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/11986100743584931850 -
It doesn't though.Stocky said:CorrectHorseBattery said:
"I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people."
Fiscal prudence should attract voters of any age.
You can argue that's wrong, that's fine. But I was simply answering what would appeal - and that answer is what would.0 -
Very good question. Thinking 5 minutes ahead and no more, I assume.rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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From this thread it sounds very much like a 'don't scare the horses' manifesto.
Understandable given persistent double digit leads.0 -
The SNP on just 40%, 10% down on their 2015 total and 5% down on the Yes 2014 total and the Tories holding all but 1 of their Scottish seats is no mandate at all for indyref2 and Boris if he wins a majority will correctly refuse one0
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Be even funnier if Corbyn won in England and sickened arseholes like youCasino_Royale said:It would be funny if the SNP dropped below 40% of the vote and got less than half the seats in Scotland - 29 seats.
Wouldn't be great for that second referendum mandate, that.1 -
Alternatively, spending could fall, or the ridiculously long tax code massively simplified to reduce the professional avoidance industry.MaxPB said:
To win votes. It just means other taxes will go up, stamp duty, anti-landlord activities etc...rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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I agree though I do not have a strong opinion on itRobD said:
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.0 -
What utter bollox, you vote knowing that you will be stuck with what England voted for whether it ruins your country or not.JohnLilburne said:Of course, if you live in a devolved country, you can vote iin a UK GE in the knowledge it will have relatively little impact on your life.
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I disagree.CorrectHorseBattery said:That isn't appealing though, for whatever reason.
You're not addressing my point, this isn't an attack on Labour, I'm saying if the Tories kept their spending plans but also proposed scrapping the interest rate on student loans they'd get more students voting for them.
Your point of "well they should be appealing" isn't grounded in reality, I'm just telling you what they could do if they wanted to. Whether it's deliverable or not really isn't relevant to this discussion.
Young people who don't understand the problems of getting into debt and aren't used to balancing a budget are more attracted to Labour's "we will throw money at every problem" bullshit. Older people who know better recoil in horror.
But that doesn't mean all young people are attracted to Labour. Actually compared to historic levels we are doing as well with young voters as we normally do.
PS when do people stop getting classed as young? Being married with children I no longer really class myself as a young voter despite being a graduate with student loan and being a Millenial [I hate that name]. I feel like this is the last election I could be considered young for.1 -
Yes, it's basically hold onto the support they've got, they don't need any more.Morris_Dancer said:From this thread it sounds very much like a 'don't scare the horses' manifesto.
Understandable given persistent double digit leads.0 -
I don't think that, overall, it actually matters that much it was just a bit of virtue signalling. for me it's more important that the constituencies are as even as possible.RobD said:
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.0 -
Tbh, you aren't all young people. Loads of my friends are seething this morning over Labour's £58bn bung to older voters because they know we wil end up paying for it. I think we will see a policy on student debt interest anyway, but it will come after the election like George's national living wage. It smacks of a bribe to announce it before and hurts our credibility.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That isn't appealing though, for whatever reason.
You're not addressing my point, this isn't an attack on Labour, I'm saying if the Tories kept their spending plans but also proposed scrapping the interest rate on student loans they'd get more students voting for them.
Your point of "well they should be appealing" isn't grounded in reality, I'm just telling you what they could do if they wanted to. Whether it's deliverable or not really isn't relevant to this discussion.1 -
Yeah, boundary reform is critical.spudgfsh said:
I don't think that, overall, it actually matters that much it was just a bit of virtue signalling. for me it's more important that the constituencies are as even as possible.RobD said:
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.0 -
Keep trying Harry , someday someone will believe youFlashy5 said:
She won’t be leader in 2021.Casino_Royale said:
She's arguing for one next year (the next Scottish election isn't until May 2021) and wants to use this general election as a mandate for that.Time_to_Leave said:
They won the last Hollyrood election. They should get a referendum every time they do that if they have the votes. It’s for the Scots to decide whether that gets boring or wasteful.Casino_Royale said:
If they got less than half the seats and just over a third of the vote in Scotland then it really wouldn't be.SandyRentool said:
If 40% is a mandate for Bozo's Brexit deal then it should be sufficient for Indyref2.Casino_Royale said:It would be funny if the SNP dropped below 40% of the vote and got less than half the seats in Scotland - 29 seats.
Wouldn't be great for that second referendum mandate, that.
She was decidedly lukewarm about a sequel at the last Scottish election in May 2016.0 -
The Conservative strategy on student debt is the opposite of fiscal prudence.Stocky said:CorrectHorseBattery said:
"I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people."
Fiscal prudence should attract voters of any age.0 -
Trump has far higher approval ratings with Leavers than Remainers and it is most of the former voting Tory or Brexit Party nowTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Is it mandatory to take a degree and the associated debt? Not sure how it's my responsibility to pay for your education when I had to leave school at 16 and go to work. As far as I know you have the options of going to work and paying your way, doing a degree that will earn you enough to pay of your debt or do a mickey mouse attendance course that will never pay for itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.
Which choice did you make?0 -
The majority of young people are not voting Tory, that's a fact.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree.CorrectHorseBattery said:That isn't appealing though, for whatever reason.
You're not addressing my point, this isn't an attack on Labour, I'm saying if the Tories kept their spending plans but also proposed scrapping the interest rate on student loans they'd get more students voting for them.
Your point of "well they should be appealing" isn't grounded in reality, I'm just telling you what they could do if they wanted to. Whether it's deliverable or not really isn't relevant to this discussion.
Young people who don't understand the problems of getting into debt and aren't used to balancing a budget are more attracted to Labour's "we will throw money at every problem" bullshit. Older people who know better recoil in horror.
But that doesn't mean all young people are attracted to Labour. Actually compared to historic levels we are doing as well with young voters as we normally do.
PS when do people stop getting classed as young? Being married with children I no longer class myself as a young voter despite being a graduate with student loan and being a Millenial [I hate that name]. I feel like this is the last election I could be considered young with.
I was asked what could the Tories do to appeal to more young people, I answered it.
Your consistent "well being fiscally responsible should appeal" isn't relevant, because it doesn't appeal. You can argue that's wrong, that's fine.
But it's not what I was asked. I was asked what would appeal: and the interest rate on student loans would. Your proposition isn't appealing, even if it's right.
That's my point, you've not engaged with the point at hand, simply gone onto something else.0 -
the current boundaries are based on the 2001 census...RobD said:
Yeah, boundary reform is critical.spudgfsh said:
I don't think that, overall, it actually matters that much it was just a bit of virtue signalling. for me it's more important that the constituencies are as even as possible.RobD said:
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.1 -
Yes but we need to win back as many Tory remainers as possible and Trump is poison for them.HYUFD said:
Trump has far higher approval ratings with Leavers than Remainers and it is most of the former voting Tory or Brexit Party nowTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Leonard as union leader was the one helping Labour block equal pay for women in GCC. What a turncoat.RobD said:
Didn't they have their high court case thrown out? I'm not sure why Labour are banging on about there being an injustice...Theuniondivvie said:Another mile down the road to Damascus for SLab. Marvellous that Richard Leonard who worked for the GMB when they conspired with Glasgow City Council to shaft low paid women out of hundreds of millions of pounds has now seen the light.
https://twitter.com/LabourRichard/status/1198367174429233153?s=200 -
Trump is toxic. Keep him awayHYUFD said:
Trump has far higher approval ratings with Leavers than Remainers and it is most of the former voting Tory or Brexit Party nowTheScreamingEagles said:1 -
You're not arguing with the point I made.saddened said:
Is it mandatory to take a degree and the associated debt? Not sure how it's my responsibility to pay for your education when I had to leave school at 16 and go to work. As far as I know you have the options of going to work and paying your way, doing a degree that will earn you enough to pay of your debt or do a mickey mouse attendance course that will never pay for itself.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I was asked what the Tories could do to appeal to more young people.Philip_Thompson said:
The interest we pay on loans is nothing like the interest we pay on Labour blowing up the deficit.CorrectHorseBattery said:
It is - but this is why young people feel ignored, because the Tories just continunally ignore this issue.another_richard said:
Its what the Conservatives should do or alternatively put a cap on maximum repayments or alternatively write off debts above a certain level.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think scrapping the interest rate on student loans would be something good that would appeal to me for sure.Fysics_Teacher said:
What is the current equivalent of gay marriage? What policy could they offer?CorrectHorseBattery said:
I think under Cameron they at least tried to be moderate and propose some policies like gay marriage, etc. but they're not even trying anymore.Floater said:
LOL - they could have given you a ferrari and you would still say no.CorrectHorseBattery said:I as a young person have received no reason for me to vote Tory, thanks Johnson
We all know who you prefer
In a way I kind of respect them for that - but it does make my decision very easy.
Having said that, I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is fairly useless. Think I will have to vote Lib Dem tactically.
But they seem to be in denial on this issue even when the ONS gives them tens of billions to take some action.
They obviously do it wisely because they know young people don't vote, so it doesn't impact their voting behaviour.
But from a moral level, I can't blame people for feeling hard done by, if I am honest.
Which choice did you make?
I'm not saying this idea is a good idea, or not (although I think it is), I'm simply saying what would get more young people to vote for them. That's all.
Whether it's right or wrong really isn't relevant to this discussion. I'm simply answering it purely from a votes perspective.0 -
Thinking about your own boiled eggs perhaps?CarlottaVance said:One good Tory policy - banning export of plastic waste to non-OECD countries - its a problem in Indonesia where First World plastic to be "recycled" is simply burnt, leading to dioxin levels in eggs only exceeded in Vietnam (Agent Orange).
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Stocky said:
"Fiscal prudence should attract voters of any age."
CorrectHorseBattery said:
"It doesn't though.
You can argue that's wrong, that's fine. But I was simply answering what would appeal - and that answer is what would."
Ah OK - well if you are attracted to fiscal imprudence with the public purse then I think you should vote Labour.
I like your moniker by the way.0 -
Pretty direct piece:TheScreamingEagles said:
The claim itself is spurious. Johnson is a man who has just struck a deal with Europe and appears to have shifted significantly toward a friendly relationship with the European Union being his priority. The £500 million figure is easy to pull apart for anyone with access to a smartphone. And Johnson has repeatedly insisted that the NHS will not be on the table in any trade deal with the US0 -
Scottish Tory surge KLAXON being well abused today. All you Tory dreamers on here frothing at the mouth at the thought of it.MaxPB said:
Indeed, the SNP could conceivably be seeing a lot of the vote increase coming in Labour held seats meaning we might get an SNP -> Con swing elsewhere.Artist said:
There are five SNP seats which require a swing of less than 1.4% for the Tories to win, including Pete Wishart's seat.MaxPB said:This would be a pretty amazing result for Bozza. There's potential that we could see the Tories gain more seats and get ~30% of the vote.
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New @Survation phone poll for @GMB 20-23 Nov
Con 41% -1 since last week
Lab 30% +2
Lib Dem 15% +1%
Brexit 5% ±0
Green 3% ±0
Surge!0 -
It doesn't matter what Labour promise. They're not going to get in.rottenborough said:
Game over?NorthCadboll said:Afternoon fellow PBers and having just watched the Tory manifesto launch on SKY News, that is one hell of a tagline Ed Conway the Business editor has just tweeted: "For every £1 the Conservatives have pledged to spend, Labour has said it will spend £28!"
The Tories will, and they will have to get Brexit done, the cost of which will make the cost of Labour's proposals look like small change.0 -
I'm not voting Labour, because in my seat it's utterly pointless.Stocky said:
Stocky said:
"Fiscal prudence should attract voters of any age."
CorrectHorseBattery said:
"It doesn't though.
You can argue that's wrong, that's fine. But I was simply answering what would appeal - and that answer is what would."
Ah OK - well if you are attracted to fiscal imprudence with the public purse then I think you should vote Labour.
I like your moniker by the way.
All I was saying - and this is the last time I will say it - is that fiscal "prudence" doesn't appeal to young voters. You're very welcome to argue they're completely wrong to believe that but at the end of the day they still won't vote for the Tories en masse.
And thank you.0 -
Not "new", but certainly "more".CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/rowenamason/status/1198623421875269632
It's the headline that matters0 -
Sadly that’s politics. Mrs May was indeed right, but the manifesto launch wasn’t the right time to broach the subject with the electorate.CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully we see a government with a decent majority come out of their election, who are prepared to look at the long ‘too-difficult list’ that I posted here a couple of days ago. Too many issues have been punted because any solution would be politically unpopular, but we elect a government to deal with this sh....0 -
A great afternoon for the blue teams. Good manifesto launch by Boris and Rangers beat Hamilton 3-1 putting them back level with Celtic and by Christmas clear blue water between the 2 Glasgow clubs and the rest. Came across my copy of the photo taken when Margaret Thatcher visited Ibrox back in the mid 80s, the other day.0
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And 'new' is not the same as 'more'.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/rowenamason/status/1198623421875269632
It's the headline that matters0 -
CorrectHorseBattery said:
"All I was saying - and this is the last time I will say it - is that fiscal "prudence" doesn't appeal to young voters. You're very welcome to argue they're completely wrong to believe that but at the end of the day they still won't vote for the Tories en masse."
You may be right - my kids certainly don`t believe in fiscal prudence when it comes to my finances lol.0 -
I am shocked and saddened that all the folk who have been saying that the BJ party should refuse indy ref II in all circumstances are saying that the BJ party should refuse indy ref II in a particular circumstance. I can hardly bear the disappointment.HYUFD said:The SNP on just 40%, 10% down on their 2015 total and 5% down on the Yes 2014 total and the Tories holding all but 1 of their Scottish seats is no mandate at all for indyref2 and Boris if he wins a majority will correctly refuse one
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I have hope lolwooliedyed said:New @Survation phone poll for @GMB 20-23 Nov
Con 41% -1 since last week
Lab 30% +2
Lib Dem 15% +1%
Brexit 5% ±0
Green 3% ±0
Surge!0 -
No they are saying it will reconfirm the last vote that provided the mandate, so double mandate. You Tory arseholes are sh** scared of democracy , whine and whinge about how much you subsidise us but sh** scared to allow a democratic vote.Casino_Royale said:
They're arguing that this election will provide that mandate.Richard_Tyndall said:
If the SNP are in power in Scotland I would argue that gives them the mandate for a second referendum. If people don't want that then they can vote for other parties.Casino_Royale said:It would be funny if the SNP dropped below 40% of the vote and got less than half the seats in Scotland - 29 seats.
Wouldn't be great for that second referendum mandate, that.
That message has been heard loud and clear by Unionists north of the border.0 -
11 point Survation gap is interesting but Labour are still stuck at 30%0
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Yes, but it’s more than that.RobD said:
Yeah, boundary reform is critical.spudgfsh said:
I don't think that, overall, it actually matters that much it was just a bit of virtue signalling. for me it's more important that the constituencies are as even as possible.RobD said:
I've come around to the idea of keeping it at 650, especially with the extra responsibilities MPs will have after leaving the EU.spudgfsh said:
The question is, will he keep DCs reduction of the number of MPs to 600 at the same time?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Labour promised that too - a majority has been found for something lolRobD said:Guardian reporting the Tories will get rid of FTPA.
Well, they've got my vote.
I think we need a constitution written down ( huge task), and I think we need voting reform. I’m in favour of something like the mixed constituency/list we have in Wales or Germany. You can still get a majority but you’ve got to do very well.
FPTP is producing too many weird results now over too long a period (Blair getting a big majority on 36 v 33% and winning I think nearly 100 more seats in England whilst losing (!) the popular vote, UKIP getting nothing for nearly 1 in 8 votes, and yes the Libs getting nobbled permanently. There’s also the threat of Venezuela on 35% of the vote).
Too many pointless votes. Like my own in a seat with a 17k majority.
It’s corrosive in the long term.1 -
So what? The detail was kept back is all, it's a stupid, cynical policy and definitely opportunistic, regardless of whether it literally was something they came up with this week, which I've no doubt is not the case.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Updated the plot - https://imgur.com/WSe1ZilCorrectHorseBattery said:11 point Survation gap is interesting but Labour are still stuck at 30%
They need something to give them a kick. Perhaps a blatant bribe of 3 million women would do the trick?
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So if we ignore the Opinium outlier the polls have clustered at the 10 to 13% lead range with 42 30 15 4 looking about the mark as of now0
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Announcements that involve another £58bn in uncosted spending?CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
The patient will see the difference.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/rowenamason/status/1198623421875269632
It's the headline that matters0 -
Trump can go f**k himself and the sooner he is gone the better.HYUFD said:
Trump has far higher approval ratings with Leavers than Remainers and it is most of the former voting Tory or Brexit Party nowTheScreamingEagles said:
Please don't imply Leave voters like that orange turd.3 -
2-3% either way causes a landslide or could prevent a majority. Fun times.wooliedyed said:So if we ignore the Opinium outlier the polls have clustered at the 10 to 13% lead range with 42 30 15 4 looking about the mark as of now
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Can we have a link to that Survation poll?0
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In case you missed it, there was a massive democratic vote only five years ago:malcolmg said:
No they are saying it will reconfirm the last vote that provided the mandate, so double mandate. You Tory arseholes are sh** scared of democracy , whine and whinge about how much you subsidise us but sh** scared to allow a democratic vote.Casino_Royale said:
They're arguing that this election will provide that mandate.Richard_Tyndall said:
If the SNP are in power in Scotland I would argue that gives them the mandate for a second referendum. If people don't want that then they can vote for other parties.Casino_Royale said:It would be funny if the SNP dropped below 40% of the vote and got less than half the seats in Scotland - 29 seats.
Wouldn't be great for that second referendum mandate, that.
That message has been heard loud and clear by Unionists north of the border.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum0 -
This would suggest a 30 to 40 majority, maybe 50 but no landslide unless the north and Midlands disproportionately crater and the Tories 'hold on' in the Southwooliedyed said:So if we ignore the Opinium outlier the polls have clustered at the 10 to 13% lead range with 42 30 15 4 looking about the mark as of now
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If that 11 point lead with Survation starts dropping, I think Twitter is going to collapsekle4 said:
2-3% either way causes a landslide or could prevent a majority. Fun times.wooliedyed said:So if we ignore the Opinium outlier the polls have clustered at the 10 to 13% lead range with 42 30 15 4 looking about the mark as of now
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+1Philip_Thompson said:
Trump can go f**k himself and the sooner he is gone the better.HYUFD said:
Trump has far higher approval ratings with Leavers than Remainers and it is most of the former voting Tory or Brexit Party nowTheScreamingEagles said:
Please don't imply Leave voters like that orange turd.0 -
Hard to imagine that it has been a generation since then...Sandpit said:
In case you missed it, there was a massive democratic vote only five years ago:malcolmg said:
No they are saying it will reconfirm the last vote that provided the mandate, so double mandate. You Tory arseholes are sh** scared of democracy , whine and whinge about how much you subsidise us but sh** scared to allow a democratic vote.Casino_Royale said:
They're arguing that this election will provide that mandate.Richard_Tyndall said:
If the SNP are in power in Scotland I would argue that gives them the mandate for a second referendum. If people don't want that then they can vote for other parties.Casino_Royale said:It would be funny if the SNP dropped below 40% of the vote and got less than half the seats in Scotland - 29 seats.
Wouldn't be great for that second referendum mandate, that.
That message has been heard loud and clear by Unionists north of the border.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum1 -
RobD: "They need something to give them a kick. Perhaps a blatant bribe of 3 million women would do the trick?"
And a goodly proportion of their spouse`s I should imagine. It`s hard to assess the effect that this policy will have.0 -
Just asking for a friend, has MalcolmG ever managed to make a posting on PB without being rude/using foul language/insulting fellow PBers who dont think the sun shines out of Nicola Sturgeon's arse [any or all of the above]?3
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Both have reached their ceiling, it seems.RobD said:
Updated the plot - https://imgur.com/WSe1ZilCorrectHorseBattery said:11 point Survation gap is interesting but Labour are still stuck at 30%
They need something to give them a kick. Perhaps a blatant bribe of 3 million women would do the trick?
Surprised not to see this chart in a header yet.0 -
Are they pledging anything other than leaving the rates at the same level? If not, then fiscal drag will raise more money as the years pass.rottenborough said:Why on earth has Johnson boxed himself in financially with this ridiculous pledge on taxes?
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Only the best for those Saudi proxies.
https://twitter.com/Jon_Christian/status/1197990384372191232?s=200 -
Interesting that they simply did not mention it at all.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Yes.NorthCadboll said:Just asking for a friend, has MalcolmG ever managed to make a posting on PB without being rude/using foul language/insulting fellow PBers who dont think the sun shines out of Nicola Sturgeon's arse [any or all of the above]?
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This discussion has been closed.