Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
This is just silly - they both got laughed at (at least twice for each). It's fair to conclude Corbyn was the better, but you cannot criticise one for being laughed at when both were. At best you can say he got laughed at less.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
and also got laughed at
more than once.
They laughed at Corbyn once, they laughed with him many times from my recollection. His best line was on the Christmas present
He was laughed at over Brexit and over his 4 day week proposal. He did poorly. As did the PM. Poor performances in a rubbish format. These lunatics coming on here saying anyone looked statesmanlike are just trolling. The polling shows BJ isn't trusted as much but is better liked and preferred as PM. Fits the polling.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Why? Non sequitur.
It's an issue of national importance and Jeremy has a very strong view. Why shouldn't he be neutral? Leave it to the people to decide?
Plays to the traditional party stereotypes. Tory = heartless party of the rich, but also competent (don't laugh - it's all relative nowadays.) Labour = cuddly party (unless you're Jewish) of the poor, but also useless.
The economy, if not exactly rolling along like a freight train, is reasonable for the middle classes. Low interest rates and low unemployment. So, the Conservatives get more votes.
The question continues to be whether or not they get a sufficiently greater number of votes to get across the finishing line in an election. We're no wiser tonight.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
This is just silly - they both got laughed at (at least twice for each). It's fair to conclude Corbyn was the better, but you cannot criticise one for being laughed at when both were. At best you can say he got laughed at less.
The laughing almost certainly came from plants - from both sides.
Johnson will need to be careful though about overworking 'Get Brexit Done'. It is sounding dangerously like Strong And Stable.
Been out all evening. What's the verdict from the debate - no score draw?
Snap polls say dead heat, therefore yes, though personally I'd edge it to Corbyn as a reasonable performance with no disaster helps him more.
Surely Corbyn would have been hoping for disasters [on Boris's side]. May 2017 had disaster after disaster, at least 3 major memorable disasters which is what helped get him close.
If these set pieces get ticked off without changing anybodies opinion I think Team Boris will be quietly quite satisfied with that.
At least there was no negative attaching to Boris for bottling it and not attending. Winning it would no doubt have been a bonus for Team Boris.
Has Corbyn looked at health care systems in Europe? When did he last have treatment in the USA. The NHS isn't for sale mantra is getting rather tiresome.
A mixed bag there but Labour will be delighted with the 59 v 25 result at the end . That’s key for them .
Those kind of polls are nonsense as far as I'm concerned. Labour always do better on the in touch question, and frankly I don't see why Boris has such a lead in looking Prime Ministerial on the basis of that debate, so it seems like the prebaked opinions for the most part.
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
Been out all evening. What's the verdict from the debate - no score draw?
Snap polls say dead heat, therefore yes, though personally I'd edge it to Corbyn as a reasonable performance with no disaster helps him more.
Surely Corbyn would have been hoping for disasters [on Boris's side]. May 2017 had disaster after disaster, at least 3 major memorable disasters which is what helped get him close.
If these set pieces get ticked off without changing anybodies opinion I think Team Boris will be quietly quite satisfied with that.
Yep.
Next step is the manifesto I think.
Is there a stinking dementia-type bomb in the Tory proposals?
Given the competence level of our political parties it cannot be ruled out, but it seems unlikely.
All the Tories have to do is present a collection of cuddly spending pledges, with some vaguely plausible method of funding them that involves soaking anyone other than the elderly, and they'll be fine.
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
There will be. Even the Dementia Tax was not the Dementia Tax that legend now makes it.
As far as I can remember the audience laughed with Corbyn on more than one occasion and only laughed at him once. However Johnson was seen as a figure of fun and was laughed at several times.He seemed to have one cheerleader who clapped loudly and who had a distinctive booming laugh.
I am just as surprised as many on here about how good Corbyn was in that format,confident and sincere.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I think the clue's in the word 'referendum' !
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
Should we rule out any private involvement in the NHS.
What does that actually mean in practice though? I don't think you can draw a line on anything like such a wide-ranging issue.
What indeed, although it seems perilously close to the Labour Party position and was ruled out (private sector involvement) by Jezza tonight.
It is a hugely contentious and important issue and Jezza has a strong view on it. But on that other hugely contentious and important issue (Br*x*t), it is ok for Jezza to have no view whatsoever.
Scored on the “oven ready” free money but bitterly disappointed with Corbyn failing to talk about a “disasterous Tory Brexit”. I won’t easily forgive him for that.
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
There will be. Even the Dementia Tax was not the Dementia Tax that legend now makes it.
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
The public were already doing that, given the polling.
I haven’t been following the polls over the last week. Swinson, though, has a (very) outside chance of being PM, but a decent chance of holding the balance of power in the next Parliament.
Neither Farage nor Swinson are standing for Parliament, and the Green lady is an irrelevance.
As far as I can remember the audience laughed with Corbyn on more than one occasion and only laughed at him once. However Johnson was seen as a figure of fun and was laughed at several times.He seemed to have one cheerleader who clapped loudly and who had a distinctive booming laugh.
I am just as surprised as many on here about how good Corbyn was in that format,confident and sincere.
Is it nice and snug, up there in Corbyn's lower colon?
As far as I can remember the audience laughed with Corbyn on more than one occasion and only laughed at him once. However Johnson was seen as a figure of fun and was laughed at several times.He seemed to have one cheerleader who clapped loudly and who had a distinctive booming laugh.
I am just as surprised as many on here about how good Corbyn was in that format,confident and sincere.
Is it nice and snug, up there in Corbyn's lower colon?
As far as I can remember the audience laughed with Corbyn on more than one occasion and only laughed at him once. However Johnson was seen as a figure of fun and was laughed at several times.He seemed to have one cheerleader who clapped loudly and who had a distinctive booming laugh.
I am just as surprised as many on here about how good Corbyn was in that format,confident and sincere.
Brexit and the 4 day week were both moments when corbyn was mocked by the audience. Boris was laughed at on trust They were both poor, mainly due to format. Your opinion of Corbyns performance is not born out by the polling
The Tories think Johnson walked all over Corbyn. Labour think Corbyn is the clear winner. Roger apparently has friends.
I am pretty sure none of these things are realistic.
I watched MasterChef instead and thought the judges got it just right.
Blimey did someone actually cook a piece of lamb properly rather than leaving it bloody raw like they usually do? ( I’m watching a recording now having turned over from Wales)
They did and the judge told them they had overcooked it
Scored on the “oven ready” free money but bitterly disappointed with Corbyn failing to talk about a “disasterous Tory Brexit”. I won’t easily forgive him for that.
Also badly stung by that. Thought it was a banker.
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
Do you think someone else will be PM or lead a party that has more MPs than Tories or Labour? If not, what is the election about?
Quite.
If we had PR rather than FPTP then, as we see from numerous examples on the Continent, things could be quite different. A Government consisting of the second and third largest party, with the leader of the third installed as Prime Minister because the leader of the second was regarded as too divisive, would not be out of the question.
But we do have FPTP and a stubborn duopoly that won't shift, so things aren't different.
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
There will be. Even the Dementia Tax was not the Dementia Tax that legend now makes it.
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
The public were already doing that, given the polling.
I haven’t been following the polls over the last week. Swinson, though, has a (very) outside chance of being PM, but a decent chance of holding the balance of power in the next Parliament.
Neither Farage nor Swinson are standing for Parliament, and the Green lady is an irrelevance.
Perhaps you should have stopped after "I have not been following the polls over the last week".
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
Do you think someone else will be PM or lead a party that has more MPs than Tories or Labour? If not, what is the election about?
Quite.
If we had PR rather than FPTP then, as we see from numerous examples on the Continent, things could be quite different. A Government consisting of the second and third largest party, with the leader of the third installed as Prime Minister because the leader of the second was regarded as too divisive, would not be out of the question.
But we do have FPTP and a stubborn duopoly that won't shift, so things aren't different.
I was underwhelmed by all that and as I have to leave at 5.00am to take my daughter and son in law to Manchester Airport to catch their flight to Stockholm to celebrate his 60th birthday, I am going to bid everyone a pleasant nights rest
BBC have this on Swinson "Pushed by Nina Hossain on how to get the 17.4 million who voted Leave on board, she says: "We have got a lot of great ideas we are putting forward at this election," including making childcare more affordable."
Scored on the “oven ready” free money but bitterly disappointed with Corbyn failing to talk about a “disasterous Tory Brexit”. I won’t easily forgive him for that.
Also badly stung by that. Thought it was a banker.
Corbyn single handedly took my hourly earnings down to £8. Below minimum wage! And I had to watch that crap on the tv.
The Tories can have that for free for their campaign posters.
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
There will be. Even the Dementia Tax was not the Dementia Tax that legend now makes it.
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
The public were already doing that, given the polling.
I haven’t been following the polls over the last week. Swinson, though, has a (very) outside chance of being PM, but a decent chance of holding the balance of power in the next Parliament.
Neither Farage nor Swinson are standing for Parliament, and the Green lady is an irrelevance.
Perhaps you should have stopped after "I have not been following the polls over the last week".
Our news is too poll driven. It’s bollocks. It would be good to hear some policy debate. As I write Swinson is being asked who she’d want to see “in the jungle”.
Interesting YouGov have another question worded differently which has them both been seen as performing well but Corbyn beats Bozo.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
Interesting YouGov have another question worded differently which has them both been seen as performing well but Corbyn beats Bozo.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
I don't understand how those questions can both be true either. I guess maybe some people were saying Corbyn did well compared to expectations but didn't win? Seems a stretch.
Interesting YouGov have another question worded differently which has them both been seen as performing well but Corbyn beats Bozo.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
"Bless him, didn't he do well" in the patronising sense.
YouGov Brexit part of the debate figures show why hes shoehorning it into every answer. Hes slaughtering labour on it.
Trying to be objective, the detailed YG questions are also a score draw. Johnson wins easily on Brexit and on being Prime Ministerial, more narrowly but still clearly on the economy and likeability. Corbyn wins easily on the NHS and overwhelmingly on being in touch with ordinary people, more narrowly on trust and other issues.
My sense FWIW is that people who think the election is primarily about Brexit are leaning heavily to the Tories and people who don't think that's the key issue are leaning away from them. Can they keep it on Brexit for the next 4 weeks?
Interesting YouGov have another question worded differently which has them both been seen as performing well but Corbyn beats Bozo.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
I don't understand how those questions can both be true either. I guess maybe some people were saying Corbyn did well compared to expectations but didn't win? Seems a stretch.
It seems bizarre , will be interesting to see if we get more info re party support of those polled .
I thought the phrase "get brexit done" started to sound like "strong and stable" at the end. The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
There will be. Even the Dementia Tax was not the Dementia Tax that legend now makes it.
Why is Swinson dumped into a format with two people who are not actually standing for Parliament and one utter no-hoper?
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
The public were already doing that, given the polling.
I haven’t been following the polls over the last week. Swinson, though, has a (very) outside chance of being PM, but a decent chance of holding the balance of power in the next Parliament.
Neither Farage nor Swinson are standing for Parliament, and the Green lady is an irrelevance.
Perhaps you should have stopped after "I have not been following the polls over the last week".
Our news is too poll driven. It’s bollocks. It would be good to hear some policy debate. As I write Swinson is being asked who she’d want to see “in the jungle”.
To which the only possible answer is "Boris, as long as that parasite which enters via the penis is around to greet him".
YouGov Brexit part of the debate figures show why hes shoehorning it into every answer. Hes slaughtering labour on it.
Trying to be objective, the detailed YG questions are also a score draw. Johnson wins easily on Brexit and on being Prime Ministerial, more narrowly but still clearly on the economy and likeability. Corbyn wins easily on the NHS and overwhelmingly on being in touch with ordinary people, more narrowly on trust and other issues.
My sense FWIW is that people who think the election is primarily about Brexit are leaning heavily to the Tories and people who don't think that's the key issue are leaning away from them. Can they keep it on Brexit for the next 4 weeks?
YouGov Brexit part of the debate figures show why hes shoehorning it into every answer. Hes slaughtering labour on it.
Trying to be objective, the detailed YG questions are also a score draw. Johnson wins easily on Brexit and on being Prime Ministerial, more narrowly but still clearly on the economy and likeability. Corbyn wins easily on the NHS and overwhelmingly on being in touch with ordinary people, more narrowly on trust and other issues.
My sense FWIW is that people who think the election is primarily about Brexit are leaning heavily to the Tories and people who don't think that's the key issue are leaning away from them. Can they keep it on Brexit for the next 4 weeks?
Interesting YouGov have another question worded differently which has them both been seen as performing well but Corbyn beats Bozo.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
Corbyn most likely outperformed very low expectations, which can only be good from his point of view. Assuming that there were more than half-a-dozen viewers (once one disregards all the politics obsessives,) of course.
So Corbyn did better relative to the pre-debate expectations
Depends whose expectations you mean. A great many people, here and elsewhere, said he would do fine, or even well, despite his terrible personal ratings. The expectations were not as low as they might have appeared.
Comments
The polling shows BJ isn't trusted as much but is better liked and preferred as PM. Fits the polling.
Kiss of death.
The like question is the most important.
The economy, if not exactly rolling along like a freight train, is reasonable for the middle classes. Low interest rates and low unemployment. So, the Conservatives get more votes.
The question continues to be whether or not they get a sufficiently greater number of votes to get across the finishing line in an election. We're no wiser tonight.
Pantomime season started early this year I see.
Johnson will need to be careful though about overworking 'Get Brexit Done'. It is sounding dangerously like Strong And Stable.
The Tories better hope there are no humdingers in the manifesto or we could be heading for 2017 Redux
ITV have connived in the Tory attempt to frame the election as Boris vs Corbyn.
All the Tories have to do is present a collection of cuddly spending pledges, with some vaguely plausible method of funding them that involves soaking anyone other than the elderly, and they'll be fine.
I am just as surprised as many on here about how good Corbyn was in that format,confident and sincere.
Neither Farage nor Swinson are standing for Parliament, and the Green lady is an irrelevance.
They were both poor, mainly due to format.
Your opinion of Corbyns performance is not born out by the polling
If we had PR rather than FPTP then, as we see from numerous examples on the Continent, things could be quite different. A Government consisting of the second and third largest party, with the leader of the third installed as Prime Minister because the leader of the second was regarded as too divisive, would not be out of the question.
But we do have FPTP and a stubborn duopoly that won't shift, so things aren't different.
The broadcaster is just accepting reality.
Don’t you think the public have the right to hear their side of story?
My old friend James Cleverly has just emailed to tell me that Boris trounced Corbyn, but thought I'd seek other views before taking his word for it...
Only just 3 weeks more of this craziness
Good night
"Pushed by Nina Hossain on how to get the 17.4 million who voted Leave on board, she says: "We have got a lot of great ideas we are putting forward at this election," including making childcare more affordable."
I presume that's not really what she said?
The Tories can have that for free for their campaign posters.
It’s bollocks. It would be good to hear some policy debate. As I write Swinson is being asked who she’d want to see “in the jungle”.
Corbyn well 67 badly 32
Bozo well 59 badly 42
So how that then changes with the overall performance to 51 v 49 for Bozo seems strange , seems to me some voters were biased and wanted to give the win to him regardless.
First thing I did was check the movement on Betfair and the prices have hardly moved so knowing nothing else my impression it was a draw.
I'll now read the thread on here and then have a look at twitter to see the verdict of the masses.
Pretty even imo.
If it's a BREXIT election Johnson majority nailed on.
If it's not could well be a hung Parliament.
In my heart of hearts I think it will be a Tory maj of between 10 and 25 unless there is a black swan event.
#3games
My sense FWIW is that people who think the election is primarily about Brexit are leaning heavily to the Tories and people who don't think that's the key issue are leaning away from them. Can they keep it on Brexit for the next 4 weeks?
Muntjacs are undoubtedly vegan, and it's good to have some options for those with dietary needs.
Even if they can’t vote, teens are roasting Pete Buttigieg on TikTok
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614737/even-if-they-cant-vote-teens-are-roasting-pete-buttigieg-on-tiktok/
They're hearing from the fringe parties now and Jo spoke first despite the fact the SNP has more MPs than the LDs.
Farage as Prince Charming, or more likely the Frog (or is that a different fairytale?)
THIS IS A BETTING WEBSITE 🙈