I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
He definitely did at first, but towards the end he degraded into his normal interview form of having difficulty stringing a sentence together.
I was also surprised he didn't have a few quirky phrases ready to go. Normally that's his media strategy- say something like "inverted pyramid of piffle" knowing that it will be in all the headlines
I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
I think he did better too. But I expected Corbyn to be a bit more animated about austerity etc and I didn’t feel he really got fired up. He also decided to go a bit prepared statement-y and didn’t take the opportunity to take a lot of shots at Boris whereas Boris took the opportunity to stick a few negative jibes in (perhaps a bit too much).
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.
Ok, debates are of questionable usefulness, many agree that, but surely we can all agree that asking politicians what they thought in the spin rooms is completely pointless?
Or possibly counter productive - I remember in 2010 some spinners for Brown were talking about substance over style so much, when I thought he'd been ok, that it made him seem worse.
They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
Well duh. Politician in wanting the public to be left with one particular idea relentlessly promoting that idea shock.
Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
We have a winner. Does anyone seriously think Boris wanted to keep talking about Brexit instead of what he could REALLY leave Corbyn under the Christmas tree? Lol.
They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
Yes, I think that's reasonable. There's sticking to your key message and overdoing it. And Corbyn doesn't bluster like Boris, but he dissembles like a pro.
I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
I think he did better too. But I expected Corbyn to be a bit more animated about austerity etc and I didn’t feel he really got fired up. He also decided to go a bit prepared statement-y and didn’t take the opportunity to take a lot of shots at Boris whereas Boris took the opportunity to stick a few negative jibes in (perhaps a bit too much).
Yeah, Corbyn stuck to prepared lines, which meant he wasn't always on topic (you could practically see the thought process; "Trust? Well that's close enough to leadership, I'll use my prepared answer for that") whereas Boris took each question as it came, which is why his performance was much less consistent.
Surprising mental agility from Corbyn though in his Christmas Carol answer
I'm happy with that - Corbyn needed to destroy and humiliate Boris if he's going to overcome his lead, but he doesn't have it in him.
Maybe not, but the election is not about Labour beating the Tories, its ensuring the Tories do not win by enough to, well, properly win.
Has Corbyn done enough to follow the pattern of 2017 and see polling continue to tick up? Will Labour members have despaired, or LDs be put off?
Remember that Labour have built up this myth of Corbyn The Great Campaigner, whose genius and powers of inspiration pulled Labour back from the brink in 2017 and nearly won a shocking upset...
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.
Yes, an hour is not long enough for a debate, not when you have to cut them off from even pretty brief answers.
Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.
They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
Well duh. Politician in wanting the public to be left with one particular idea relentlessly promoting that idea shock.
And that point was made by Mike L above. I might have been annoyed and entertained by Johnson in equal measure but that's the main thing that stuck - that he endlessly kept going back to where does Corbyn stand on Brexit?
The same thing. Endlessly repeated. If it's about you and you don't do it (*cough* string and stable) then it's a problem. But as Corbyn can't take a clear line on Brexit it isn't a problem as he won't demolish the Cummings attack line
Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
These debates are watched by millions of people who do not follow politics closely; it’s important that the key lines are hammered home, repetitive though they seem to us.
In a good old fashioned pre-internet election the Tories would have a man in some sort of costume asking Corbyn that question via loud hailer every day. Labour would, of course be following Boris with a man dressed as a chlorinated chicken. I miss those days.
Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.
Worse. They should be on the first tee in Hell, with the guy who shouts out "In the hole!"
I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
He definitely did at first, but towards the end he degraded into his normal interview form of having difficulty stringing a sentence together.
I was also surprised he didn't have a few quirky phrases ready to go. Normally that's his media strategy- say something like "inverted pyramid of piffle" knowing that it will be in all the headlines
I'm happy with that - Corbyn needed to destroy and humiliate Boris if he's going to overcome his lead, but he doesn't have it in him.
Maybe not, but the election is not about Labour beating the Tories, its ensuring the Tories do not win by enough to, well, properly win.
Has Corbyn done enough to follow the pattern of 2017 and see polling continue to tick up? Will Labour members have despaired, or LDs be put off?
Remember that Labour have built up this myth of Corbyn The Great Campaigner, whose genius and powers of inspiration pulled Labour back from the brink in 2017 and nearly won a shocking upset...
Did you see that man on stage today?
I did not. But something I tend to believe is that sides often win, or lose, in spite of their own efforts. I don't think Remain or Leave were the best at putting their own cases forward for instance, often making the case for their opponents. I think to a lesser degree it happens in politics. You do still need pull factors to draw people to you, and inpirational leadership is part of that, but push factors are more vital, and can even add to the pull factors.
Corbyn's personal ratings are in the toilet, yet the early campaigning has seen him and Labour increase. A reasonable, not breakout, performance, against the 'monster' Boris, could do a lot for the cause in spite of him landing no knock out blows. Boris will hope that Corbyn won't committ to remain or leave horrified LDs.
Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
That's the key.
What matters is what's remembered.
I suspect that if you asked 100 random people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.
My daughter proposed a drinking game where you had to have a drink every time Boris went back to Brexit. Thank goodness we didn’t take her up on it (hic).
Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
That's the key.
What matters is what's remembered.
I suspect that if you asked random 100 people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
Yeah, makes sense. Labour will trumpet is as showing Corbyn is a lot more liked than his doubters say, Tories will be disappointed its not more, but show they are ahead.
Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.
Worse. They should be on the first tee in Hell, with the guy who shouts out "In the hole!"
Between the "GEDDIN THE HOLE" guy and the "STOP BREXIT" guy.
Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
That's the key.
What matters is what's remembered.
I suspect that if you asked 100 random people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.
Not really, brit classics come from interviews usually. But did you threaten to overrule him?
Corbyn the winner - he's clearly not the best that Labour has got but more than a match for the mendacious disingenuous racist buffoon that leads the Conservative party (and yes there is much better in the Conservative party too!).
God damn that's a load off my anxiety. The polls may still tighten once all the Labour goodies get their airing this week, but I'm no longer afraid of the black swan that Corbyn might have had the ability to dazzle Boris in a one-on-one duel. That's huge - at least for me!
Comments
I think the order of the questions helped him, the Brexit part was a struggle , after that he was much better .
I was also surprised he didn't have a few quirky phrases ready to go. Normally that's his media strategy- say something like "inverted pyramid of piffle" knowing that it will be in all the headlines
What matters is what's remembered.
Thought it was marvellous.
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.
Or possibly counter productive - I remember in 2010 some spinners for Brown were talking about substance over style so much, when I thought he'd been ok, that it made him seem worse.
He emphasised the word 'institution' a bit, I think to stress he wasn't making a comment on Prince Andrew.
I do think Boris could have just agreed with Corbyn on the Andy question it would have been an easy thing to do.
Surprising mental agility from Corbyn though in his Christmas Carol answer
Did you see that man on stage today?
He quite clearly did not win unless you call being laughed at winning!
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.
The same thing. Endlessly repeated. If it's about you and you don't do it (*cough* string and stable) then it's a problem. But as Corbyn can't take a clear line on Brexit it isn't a problem as he won't demolish the Cummings attack line
In many ways a party election broadcast against a Corbyn Labour Government.
I think Gove as leader would be brilliant in these debates but lacking elsewhere which is probably why he's not leader.
I can't get my head round how anyone could think what you just wrote.
Corbyn's personal ratings are in the toilet, yet the early campaigning has seen him and Labour increase. A reasonable, not breakout, performance, against the 'monster' Boris, could do a lot for the cause in spite of him landing no knock out blows. Boris will hope that Corbyn won't committ to remain or leave horrified LDs.
CCHQ rebranding their Twitter account “factcheckUK” in a nice neutral shade of purple is an *adopts Liz Truss voice* Absolute Disgrace.
If you’ve got something to say about Corbyn, have the balls to say it as yourself. Don’t try and mislead people that you’re in any way neutral.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.
Annoyed because I backed the wrong side and lost by 2 points
I wonder we're still just marking time on the naughty stool and going through the motions.
So Corbyn loses a 'game change' opportunity.
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1196861090245861376
But demographics of TV viewers may not match whole population.
But no way did anything significant enough happen to move many votes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7155615/Emily-Maitlis-lost-control-BBC-viewers-slam-Tory-leadership-debate.html
Who wins the soundbite / meme war?
I think Johnson by, oh I don't know, an absolute country mile.
In Labour's manifesto launch tomorrow they will announce the Nationalisation of leadership debates.
Corbyn is way behind on satisfaction ratings and way back in the polls. So if 49% of people reckon he won the debate, that's an above-par result.
Maybe we will see a #corbynsurge after all.
nico67 says Corbyn won it.
noo hasn't commented yet but will obviously saying Corbyn smashed it.
Just saying.
Seems to me 50% of the audience went for "get Brexit done" and the other half groaned.
The final result makes sense.