Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
Plus there wasn't a general election in 1975 so Wilson had the luxury of playing the statesman. He didn't have to convince anyone he was a leader because he was Prime Minister already.
We now have a general election and I think people are looking for the leadership necessary to become Prime Minister.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Hilarious to see some of the spin from Tories in here .
Given they’re about 10 to 15 points ahead in the polls and Corbyn had a minus 40 odd favourability the fact he scored well with 49% of those watching according to the poll will be a win for him .
How many points of improvement in his leadership ratings do you predict as a result?
I’m not predicting anything . But really how can this debate have harmed Corbyn , he came into it with dire leader ratings and 49% liked his performance.
But even a Labour loyalist is admitting he lost. To get anything out of it, he needed to win and win big. This far behind, he cannot afford to be losing more ground.
And a lot on here thought Boris would tank . And he didn't. Boris went into this the underdog in expectation - not Corbyn.
Corbyn did these debates last time. He needed to knock it out of the park. He didn't.
Hilarious to see some of the spin from Tories in here .
Given they’re about 10 to 15 points ahead in the polls and Corbyn had a minus 40 odd favourability the fact he scored well with 49% of those watching according to the poll will be a win for him .
How many points of improvement in his leadership ratings do you predict as a result?
I’m not predicting anything . But really how can this debate have harmed Corbyn , he came into it with dire leader ratings and 49% liked his performance.
But even a Labour loyalist is admitting he lost. To get anything out of it, he needed to win and win big. This far behind, he cannot afford to be losing more ground.
And a lot on here thought Boris would tank . And he didn't. Boris went into this the underdog in expectation - not Corbyn.
Corbyn did these debates last time. He needed to knock it out of the park. He didn't.
I do think Corbyn is playing up his softly spoken thing on 'serious' questions, and it is a little phony, but he can still at least modulate his tone better than Boris can.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
It'll make for a good picture, but forcing the pair to shake hands was just silliness.
Especially in the middle of the debate. Leaders shake hands at the start/end of the debate not during it.
Hang on, I'm getting deja vu - did the same thing happen in the Tories' leaders debate? I repeat myself a lot, but I feel like I've said precisely the same thing here.
The image says the scores are from "immediately before" an election, and someone has written at the top "heading into" an election. Nice try. There's a long way to go yet... What's the biggest min-to-max spread a leader's ratings have had in an election period?
His rating started going up from before the campaign started in 2017. It has yet to improve this time around.
It has improved though. Kantar showed earlier it has gone up.
By a net of 1, margin of error, compared with the huge deficit he has. Anyway, I'm specifically talking about the MORI series. He went from -41 (late March 2017) to -11 (late May 2017) in the run up to the 2017 election. He was at -60 in mid September 2019, unchanged in late October 2019.
he was aided by the way that TM looked so wooden (and by the Tory manifesto). Just look at how much TMs ratings fell as JCs rose. Boris's failing are already priced into the ratings and may go down but not in the same manner.
I should have also mentioned that Johnson's rating has improved from -18 to +2 between mid September 2019 and late October 2019
Getting marginal movement on Brexit after a year of stalemate will do that,
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I think the clue's in the word 'referendum' !
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
I'm surprised given it was Boris's obvious line and the media's line for months that Corbyn didn't have a clear answer on the Brexit question in what is reasonably by many being called The Brexit Election.
He needs to get an actual answer PDQ.
No he doesn't. It only annoys Tories and they don't matter anyway to him.
I seriously wonder if "get Brexit done" will become the new strong and stable. Half of the audience were bored of it.
They've focused grouped the crap out of Get Brexit Done. They know it works and they know it's working.
"Strong and Stable" never worked because Theresa could never sell it. Boris can sell Get Brexit Done (is selling it)
Get Brexit Done is the new Long Term Economic Plan from 2015 that got said to the point of people being sick of it, but also got the Tories a majority.
While out canvassing it’s the most repeated line back from those saying they’ll vote conservative.
It’s like Borg drones connected to the Queen ! Seriously though it’s beginning to grate!
Corbyn being OK means he's better than most of the public think he is, which is a win for him - I think that is how he will perceive it.
It'll also give the Labour members a kickstart they need.
I just wasn't convinced by Johnson on anything other than on Brexit - which he won on. But it was tiring by the end.
Corbyn is so heavily demonised in the media that when he appears live on programmes like tonite he can hardly help but appear better than most people expect.
He is in fact quite good in that format. Boris is better in short snappy spells, or giving speeches. Less so in open debate.
I would expect Corbyn's dire personal rating to improve, but otherwise the dial won't move much.
This will be the ongoing fall-out from the debate. Corbyn lying about anti-semitism in Labour.
Johnson lying about everything from highest Corporation tax in Europe to dying in a ditch to how many kids he has to lying to his wife to everything else he ever says
So Corbyn did better relative to the pre-debate expectations
Possibly. I thought he didn’t look quite right. His right eye was funny and his lens on that side looked blurred. His glasses were sitting at an odd angle as well. It crossed my mind he had had a mild stroke. But he spoke as well as he normally does.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I think the clue's in the word 'referendum' !
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
Should we rule out any private involvement in the NHS.
I got bored after 5 minutes so watched the first episode of Porterhouse Blue on Youtube. The point where Sir Godber and the Dean clashed seemed strangely reminiscent of the debate. I assume the scene in a future episode, where Zipser demolishes the college with inflated condoms, will bring back even more memories of Boris.
I'm surprised given it was Boris's obvious line and the media's line for months that Corbyn didn't have a clear answer on the Brexit question in what is reasonably by many being called The Brexit Election.
He needs to get an actual answer PDQ.
No he doesn't. It only annoys Tories and they don't matter anyway to him.
I think you might find there's Remainers out there annoyed at Corbyn's prevarication too!
I seriously wonder if "get Brexit done" will become the new strong and stable. Half of the audience were bored of it.
They've focused grouped the crap out of Get Brexit Done. They know it works and they know it's working.
"Strong and Stable" never worked because Theresa could never sell it. Boris can sell Get Brexit Done (is selling it)
Get Brexit Done is the new Long Term Economic Plan from 2015 that got said to the point of people being sick of it, but also got the Tories a majority.
While out canvassing it’s the most repeated line back from those saying they’ll vote conservative.
It’s like Borg drones connected to the Queen ! Seriously though it’s beginning to grate!
Precisely why we need to get Brexit done so you won't have to hear the words "get Brexit done" again.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I seriously wonder if "get Brexit done" will become the new strong and stable. Half of the audience were bored of it.
They've focused grouped the crap out of Get Brexit Done. They know it works and they know it's working.
"Strong and Stable" never worked because Theresa could never sell it. Boris can sell Get Brexit Done (is selling it)
Get Brexit Done is the new Long Term Economic Plan from 2015 that got said to the point of people being sick of it, but also got the Tories a majority.
While out canvassing it’s the most repeated line back from those saying they’ll vote conservative.
It’s like Borg drones connected to the Queen ! Seriously though it’s beginning to grate!
They'll make a cock up in their manifesto launch for people to talk about soon.
Corbyn being OK means he's better than most of the public think he is, which is a win for him - I think that is how he will perceive it.
It'll also give the Labour members a kickstart they need.
I just wasn't convinced by Johnson on anything other than on Brexit - which he won on. But it was tiring by the end.
Corbyn is so heavily demonised in the media that when he appears live on programmes like tonite he can hardly help but appear better than most people expect.
He is in fact quite good in that format. Boris is better in short snappy spells, or giving speeches. Less so in open debate.
I would expect Corbyn's dire personal rating to improve, but otherwise the dial won't move much.
And lots of people think similarly, so I think the idea everyone expected Boris to trounce Corbyn, or even for Corbyn to see an enormous jump in the Labour share, needs to be discarded, as there's plenty of nuanced reactions to the impact. Even Betfair have not overreacted.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Why? Non sequitur.
It's an issue of national importance and Jeremy has a very strong view. Why shouldn't he be neutral? Leave it to the people to decide?
I seriously wonder if "get Brexit done" will become the new strong and stable. Half of the audience were bored of it.
They've focused grouped the crap out of Get Brexit Done. They know it works and they know it's working.
"Strong and Stable" never worked because Theresa could never sell it. Boris can sell Get Brexit Done (is selling it)
Get Brexit Done is the new Long Term Economic Plan from 2015 that got said to the point of people being sick of it, but also got the Tories a majority.
While out canvassing it’s the most repeated line back from those saying they’ll vote conservative.
It’s like Borg drones connected to the Queen ! Seriously though it’s beginning to grate!
Precisely why we need to get Brexit done so you won't have to hear the words get Brexit done again.
Lmao ! Yes I hate Brexit but if the slogan gets put out of its misery it will be relief !
Who the people like Topping saying they both did ok talking up? Or Wooliedyed saying it was a bore draw? And so on. The idea people are only talking up their sides isn't borne out. Some are.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Is your name "Topping" or "Trolling"?
Oh, the wit. There's no shortage of trolls on here. Topping ain't one.
The Tories think Johnson walked all over Corbyn. Labour think Corbyn is the clear winner. Roger apparently has friends.
I am pretty sure none of these things are realistic.
I watched MasterChef instead and thought the judges got it just right.
Blimey did someone actually cook a piece of lamb properly rather than leaving it bloody raw like they usually do? ( I’m watching a recording now having turned over from Wales)
Thanks everyone for watching it, so I didn't have to.
The burdens we bear. Just to talk myself up, I've also read and summarised the Green Party Manifesto across 4 posts earlier so no one else has to as well.
I seriously wonder if "get Brexit done" will become the new strong and stable. Half of the audience were bored of it.
They've focused grouped the crap out of Get Brexit Done. They know it works and they know it's working.
"Strong and Stable" never worked because Theresa could never sell it. Boris can sell Get Brexit Done (is selling it)
Get Brexit Done is the new Long Term Economic Plan from 2015 that got said to the point of people being sick of it, but also got the Tories a majority.
While out canvassing it’s the most repeated line back from those saying they’ll vote conservative.
It’s like Borg drones connected to the Queen ! Seriously though it’s beginning to grate!
They'll make a cock up in their manifesto launch for people to talk about soon.
Corbyn being OK means he's better than most of the public think he is, which is a win for him - I think that is how he will perceive it.
It'll also give the Labour members a kickstart they need.
I just wasn't convinced by Johnson on anything other than on Brexit - which he won on. But it was tiring by the end.
Corbyn is so heavily demonised in the media that when he appears live on programmes like tonite he can hardly help but appear better than most people expect.
He is in fact quite good in that format. Boris is better in short snappy spells, or giving speeches. Less so in open debate.
I would expect Corbyn's dire personal rating to improve, but otherwise the dial won't move much.
And lots of people think similarly, so I think the idea everyone expected Boris to trounce Corbyn, or even for Corbyn to see an enormous jump in the Labour share, needs to be discarded, as there's plenty of nuanced reactions to the impact. Even Betfair have not overreacted.
Betfair is the most honest guide in this kind of situation.
NOM drifted down during the day and has more or less held its position since the show. So the punters are saying more or less a draw.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Is your name "Topping" or "Trolling"?
Oh, the wit. There's no shortage of trolls on here. Topping ain't one.
What a waste of time that was. I doubt many voters are any the wiser on the issues.
An in-depth grilling from Andrew Neil would have been far more worthwhile.
Definitely.
The format was awful.
It needed more time. No really, it was not great viewing, but 1 hour was not enough for them to get into things properly, they were always being moved on.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Result binding on all future Governments.
Sounds good to me. I’m not sure Labour would like it though, as it would take away their most used election line.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
"....while a YouGov "Instant Reaction" survey found 51% for Cameron and 49% for Miliband. A subsequent regular YouGov poll found that among undecided voters, 49% thought Milband had done best to 35% for Cameron. The Centre for the Analysis of Social Media concluded the social media reaction was more favourable towards Miliband. Newsnight's political editor called Miliband the winner."
FWIW literally nobody I have spoken to who is not at least a member of a political party said they would watch it. Many didn’t even know it was on. I suspect the viewing figures will be in the tank and I would suspect that favours the leader in the polls.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at him then?
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I think the clue's in the word 'referendum' !
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
Should we rule out any private involvement in the NHS.
What does that actually mean in practice though? I don't think you can draw a line on anything like such a wide-ranging issue.
Been out all evening. What's the verdict from the debate - no score draw?
Snap polls say dead heat, therefore yes, though personally I'd edge it to Corbyn as a reasonable performance with no disaster helps him more.
Surely Corbyn would have been hoping for disasters [on Boris's side]. May 2017 had disaster after disaster, at least 3 major memorable disasters which is what helped get him close.
If these set pieces get ticked off without changing anybodies opinion I think Team Boris will be quietly quite satisfied with that.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at him then?
You’re right. Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at Boris Johnson?
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at him then?
"....while a YouGov "Instant Reaction" survey found 51% for Cameron and 49% for Miliband. A subsequent regular YouGov poll found that among undecided voters, 49% thought Milband had done best to 35% for Cameron. The Centre for the Analysis of Social Media concluded the social media reaction was more favourable towards Miliband. Newsnight's political editor called Miliband the winner."
Wonder how that ended up?
Hold on, there wasn't a head to head in 2015. You can't really compare.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Why? Non sequitur.
It's an issue of national importance and Jeremy has a very strong view. Why shouldn't he be neutral? Leave it to the people to decide?
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
and also got laughed at
more than once.
They laughed at Corbyn once, they laughed with him many times from my recollection. His best line was on the Christmas present
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Why? Non sequitur.
It's an issue of national importance and Jeremy has a very strong view. Why shouldn't he be neutral? Leave it to the people to decide?
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
Result binding on all future Governments.
Surely nothing can be binding on all future Governments?
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at him then?
You’re right. Why did the audience repeatedly laugh at Boris Johnson?
Because he’s an unserious twat telling a pack of unconvincing lies.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
Yey I am watching sky and they have said the Yougov polling on best PM, boJo won by a mile, they did not give the percentages out.
Been out all evening. What's the verdict from the debate - no score draw?
Snap polls say dead heat, therefore yes, though personally I'd edge it to Corbyn as a reasonable performance with no disaster helps him more.
Surely Corbyn would have been hoping for disasters [on Boris's side]. May 2017 had disaster after disaster, at least 3 major memorable disasters which is what helped get him close.
If these set pieces get ticked off without changing anybodies opinion I think Team Boris will be quietly quite satisfied with that.
Yep.
Next step is the manifesto I think.
Is there a stinking dementia-type bomb in the Tory proposals?
What a waste of time that was. I doubt many voters are any the wiser on the issues.
An in-depth grilling from Andrew Neil would have been far more worthwhile.
Definitely.
The format was awful.
It needed more time. No really, it was not great viewing, but 1 hour was not enough for them to get into things properly, they were always being moved on.
They could have had more time. They could quite easily have found time by:
Not asking inane questions on the monarchy/Prince Andrew. Not spending time getting them to shake hands during the debate. Not asking inane questions on Christmas Presents. Not asking other inane questions. Not cutting to commercial breaks - sure its ITV but ITV could have opted to go Commercial-Free for the hour to have more time for the debate itself.
Boris Johnson did not come across as a leader tonight.He seemed unprepared and lacking in substance.The audience laughed at him on more than one occasion.His whole demeanour revealed a contemptuous attitude towards the audience.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
and also got laughed at
more than once.
They laughed at Corbyn once, they laughed with him many times from my recollection. His best line was on the Christmas present
They laughed at both of them. Corbyn twice (once on Brexit and once on Antisematism IIRC). They laughed at Johnson once.
Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.
It is a killer question because he is the leader of the Labour Party and it is the most important issue facing our country.
Or why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I suspect he will agree a free vote for Labour MPs and keep above the fray himself. That's exactly what Wilson did in 1975.
"In a 1975 pamphlet Prime Minister Harold Wilson said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict."[3] The pamphlet also said: "Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision — whichever way it goes.""
So why not a referendum on privatisation in the NHS?
I think the clue's in the word 'referendum' !
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
Should we rule out any private involvement in the NHS.
What does that actually mean in practice though? I don't think you can draw a line on anything like such a wide-ranging issue.
What indeed, although it seems perilously close to the Labour Party position and was ruled out (private sector involvement) by Jezza tonight.
It is a hugely contentious and important issue and Jezza has a strong view on it. But on that other hugely contentious and important issue (Br*x*t), it is ok for Jezza to have no view whatsoever.
Comments
https://twitter.com/_petermason/status/1196898515471020033
We now have a general election and I think people are looking for the leadership necessary to become Prime Minister.
I'm just mad about Swinson.......
It's not about pleasing us, it's about pleasing the public.
They on average hate Corbyn, so for him to not be dire will be better than they expected.
I think this will mean a lot more than people think.
Only beating Corbyn by 2 points? Boris should resign.
What are you mad about? That she's still not taken your advice and changed her hair doo?
What would the question be? What immediate change could result?
Oh Roger...cinquante-cinq not doing its happy hour on lager and black this evening?
He is in fact quite good in that format. Boris is better in short snappy spells, or giving speeches. Less so in open debate.
I would expect Corbyn's dire personal rating to improve, but otherwise the dial won't move much.
The Tories think Johnson walked all over Corbyn.
Labour think Corbyn is the clear winner.
Roger apparently has friends.
I am pretty sure none of these things are realistic.
I watched MasterChef instead and thought the judges got it just right.
Meanwhile, the world continues to turn.....
An in-depth grilling from Andrew Neil would have been far more worthwhile.
The format was awful.
NOM drifted down during the day and has more or less held its position since the show. So the punters are saying more or less a draw.
Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand was surprisingly good and statesmanlike.
more than once.
"....while a YouGov "Instant Reaction" survey found 51% for Cameron and 49% for Miliband. A subsequent regular YouGov poll found that among undecided voters, 49% thought Milband had done best to 35% for Cameron. The Centre for the Analysis of Social Media concluded the social media reaction was more favourable towards Miliband. Newsnight's political editor called Miliband the winner."
Wonder how that ended up?
Even more embarrassingly, given Hitler died (just) before Corbyn was born, how could Corbyn narrowly lose to him?
I don't think you can draw a line on anything like such a wide-ranging issue.
If these set pieces get ticked off without changing anybodies opinion I think Team Boris will be quietly quite satisfied with that.
Much the same reason as Corbyn, indeed.
Corbyn's pitch is everything is terrible.
Optimism wins.
Next step is the manifesto I think.
Is there a stinking dementia-type bomb in the Tory proposals?
Not asking inane questions on the monarchy/Prince Andrew.
Not spending time getting them to shake hands during the debate.
Not asking inane questions on Christmas Presents.
Not asking other inane questions.
Not cutting to commercial breaks - sure its ITV but ITV could have opted to go Commercial-Free for the hour to have more time for the debate itself.
Just off the top of my head.
Interesting
It is a hugely contentious and important issue and Jezza has a strong view on it. But on that other hugely contentious and important issue (Br*x*t), it is ok for Jezza to have no view whatsoever.
Was my point.