politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And so to the first leaders’ TV debate of GE2019 – without a r
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Regardless of any snap poll Corbyn got what he wanted . I fail to see how this doesn’t improve his image.
I think the order of the questions helped him, the Brexit part was a struggle , after that he was much better .0 -
Your premise is flawed.DecrepiterJohnL said:Michael Gove thinks.
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He definitely did at first, but towards the end he degraded into his normal interview form of having difficulty stringing a sentence together.Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
I was also surprised he didn't have a few quirky phrases ready to go. Normally that's his media strategy- say something like "inverted pyramid of piffle" knowing that it will be in all the headlines0 -
I think he did better too. But I expected Corbyn to be a bit more animated about austerity etc and I didn’t feel he really got fired up. He also decided to go a bit prepared statement-y and didn’t take the opportunity to take a lot of shots at Boris whereas Boris took the opportunity to stick a few negative jibes in (perhaps a bit too much).Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
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..0
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His mum's the Queen...MarqueeMark said:
Not in any meaningful way, no.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Andy's part of the Monarchy, no?MarqueeMark said:
The Monarhy. Not Andy.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We just heard Boris say Andy's "beyond reproach"?MarqueeMark said:What the fuck is the point in taking about Prince Andrew???
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The monarchy is "beyond reproach".nichomar said:
Interesting, I remember corbyn response that I applauded but don’t remember johnsonsStereotomy said:
Both of the answers on the monarchy may end up being the most newsworthy part of the evening.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Andy's part of the Monarchy, no?MarqueeMark said:
The Monarhy. Not Andy.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We just heard Boris say Andy's "beyond reproach"?MarqueeMark said:What the fuck is the point in taking about Prince Andrew???
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Shall I tell you the ending watched it all in one sitting.HYUFD said:
Yes, an hour of my life I will not get back, no real blows either way.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:God, that was crap.
Switching over to Golddigger on BBC1 like most viewers now I expect
Thought it was marvellous.0 -
The format lost.
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.3 -
Ok, debates are of questionable usefulness, many agree that, but surely we can all agree that asking politicians what they thought in the spin rooms is completely pointless?MikeL said:Gove now in spin room on BBC News Channel.
Or possibly counter productive - I remember in 2010 some spinners for Brown were talking about substance over style so much, when I thought he'd been ok, that it made him seem worse.0 -
"The institution of the Monarchy is beyond reproach"nichomar said:
Interesting, I remember corbyn response that I applauded but don’t remember johnsonsStereotomy said:
Both of the answers on the monarchy may end up being the most newsworthy part of the evening.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Andy's part of the Monarchy, no?MarqueeMark said:
The Monarhy. Not Andy.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We just heard Boris say Andy's "beyond reproach"?MarqueeMark said:What the fuck is the point in taking about Prince Andrew???
He emphasised the word 'institution' a bit, I think to stress he wasn't making a comment on Prince Andrew.0 -
I agree and he knew it at the end.Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
I do think Boris could have just agreed with Corbyn on the Andy question it would have been an easy thing to do.0 -
Well duh. Politician in wanting the public to be left with one particular idea relentlessly promoting that idea shock.RochdalePioneers said:They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
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Pochettino sacked.0
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We have a winner. Does anyone seriously think Boris wanted to keep talking about Brexit instead of what he could REALLY leave Corbyn under the Christmas tree? Lol.Chameleon said:Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
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Boil it down - Jezza couldn’t answer on Brexit - the end.0
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What, again? Where had he gone to?MikeL said:Pochettino sacked.
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Yes, I think that's reasonable. There's sticking to your key message and overdoing it. And Corbyn doesn't bluster like Boris, but he dissembles like a pro.RochdalePioneers said:They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
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Crap versus more crap. The argument isn’t worth having. People should break with habit and vote for someone new.0
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Yeah, Corbyn stuck to prepared lines, which meant he wasn't always on topic (you could practically see the thought process; "Trust? Well that's close enough to leadership, I'll use my prepared answer for that") whereas Boris took each question as it came, which is why his performance was much less consistent.numbertwelve said:
I think he did better too. But I expected Corbyn to be a bit more animated about austerity etc and I didn’t feel he really got fired up. He also decided to go a bit prepared statement-y and didn’t take the opportunity to take a lot of shots at Boris whereas Boris took the opportunity to stick a few negative jibes in (perhaps a bit too much).Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
Surprising mental agility from Corbyn though in his Christmas Carol answer0 -
“You’re watching ITV - 9 o’clock now, and time for bollocks to go *in* to famous people’s mouths for an hour”.1
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What's the little **** up to now?DecrepiterJohnL said:Michael Gove thinks Boris won.
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Remember that Labour have built up this myth of Corbyn The Great Campaigner, whose genius and powers of inspiration pulled Labour back from the brink in 2017 and nearly won a shocking upset...kle4 said:
Maybe not, but the election is not about Labour beating the Tories, its ensuring the Tories do not win by enough to, well, properly win.BluerBlue said:I'm happy with that - Corbyn needed to destroy and humiliate Boris if he's going to overcome his lead, but he doesn't have it in him.
Has Corbyn done enough to follow the pattern of 2017 and see polling continue to tick up? Will Labour members have despaired, or LDs be put off?
Did you see that man on stage today?0 -
That's such a crap comment Nick I expected better of you.NickPalmer said:Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
He quite clearly did not win unless you call being laughed at winning!1 -
Yes, an hour is not long enough for a debate, not when you have to cut them off from even pretty brief answers.spudgfsh said:The format lost.
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.0 -
Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.2 -
Agreed.spudgfsh said:The format lost.
the debate was not long enough and not focused enough. They weren't allowed to develop their answers enough and there was very little actual debate. It needed to either be much more focused on one or two topics or twice as long.0 -
Gove and Gwynne having stand up row on BBC News Channel!0
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And that point was made by Mike L above. I might have been annoyed and entertained by Johnson in equal measure but that's the main thing that stuck - that he endlessly kept going back to where does Corbyn stand on Brexit?TOPPING said:
Well duh. Politician in wanting the public to be left with one particular idea relentlessly promoting that idea shock.RochdalePioneers said:They were both crap. Corbyn looks shifty, Johnson sounds shifty. Corbyn couldn't answer where he stands on Brexit, Johnson couldn't answer even a Christmas question without talking about Brexit.
The same thing. Endlessly repeated. If it's about you and you don't do it (*cough* string and stable) then it's a problem. But as Corbyn can't take a clear line on Brexit it isn't a problem as he won't demolish the Cummings attack line0 -
Daily Mail comments reckon Bozza won it by a ~ 10-1 margin or so.0
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These debates are watched by millions of people who do not follow politics closely; it’s important that the key lines are hammered home, repetitive though they seem to us.Chameleon said:Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
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Could you imagine if that debate had been with all the leaders0
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I’ve just finished episode 5 of The Crown.
In many ways a party election broadcast against a Corbyn Labour Government.1 -
Nice unbiased opinion there. Snap poll =meaninglessNickPalmer said:Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
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There's a surprise.DecrepiterJohnL said:Michael Gove thinks Boris won.
I think Gove as leader would be brilliant in these debates but lacking elsewhere which is probably why he's not leader.0 -
In a good old fashioned pre-internet election the Tories would have a man in some sort of costume asking Corbyn that question via loud hailer every day. Labour would, of course be following Boris with a man dressed as a chlorinated chicken. I miss those days.0
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Worse. They should be on the first tee in Hell, with the guy who shouts out "In the hole!"Drutt said:Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.1 -
He threw in a “lacuna”.Stereotomy said:
He definitely did at first, but towards the end he degraded into his normal interview form of having difficulty stringing a sentence together.Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
I was also surprised he didn't have a few quirky phrases ready to go. Normally that's his media strategy- say something like "inverted pyramid of piffle" knowing that it will be in all the headlines0 -
When will people learn, it's about the undecidedsTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Are you for real? How could that performance improve his image?nico67 said:Regardless of any snap poll Corbyn got what he wanted . I fail to see how this doesn’t improve his image.
I think the order of the questions helped him, the Brexit part was a struggle , after that he was much better .
I can't get my head round how anyone could think what you just wrote.1 -
51/49 Johnson/Corbyn0
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I did not. But something I tend to believe is that sides often win, or lose, in spite of their own efforts. I don't think Remain or Leave were the best at putting their own cases forward for instance, often making the case for their opponents. I think to a lesser degree it happens in politics. You do still need pull factors to draw people to you, and inpirational leadership is part of that, but push factors are more vital, and can even add to the pull factors.BluerBlue said:
Remember that Labour have built up this myth of Corbyn The Great Campaigner, whose genius and powers of inspiration pulled Labour back from the brink in 2017 and nearly won a shocking upset...kle4 said:
Maybe not, but the election is not about Labour beating the Tories, its ensuring the Tories do not win by enough to, well, properly win.BluerBlue said:I'm happy with that - Corbyn needed to destroy and humiliate Boris if he's going to overcome his lead, but he doesn't have it in him.
Has Corbyn done enough to follow the pattern of 2017 and see polling continue to tick up? Will Labour members have despaired, or LDs be put off?
Did you see that man on stage today?
Corbyn's personal ratings are in the toilet, yet the early campaigning has seen him and Labour increase. A reasonable, not breakout, performance, against the 'monster' Boris, could do a lot for the cause in spite of him landing no knock out blows. Boris will hope that Corbyn won't committ to remain or leave horrified LDs.0 -
And damson jam won, because it’s now on my shopping list. Haven’t had it for ages.0
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Winner is in the eye of the beholder, obvs. The "Debate" didn't add anything to the debate.0
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On a serious point - if niche in the grand scheme...
CCHQ rebranding their Twitter account “factcheckUK” in a nice neutral shade of purple is an *adopts Liz Truss voice* Absolute Disgrace.
If you’ve got something to say about Corbyn, have the balls to say it as yourself. Don’t try and mislead people that you’re in any way neutral.0 -
Effectively a dead heat0
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Boris did say he will have a policy on social care in the Con manifesto.0
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That poll seems pretty fair tbh0
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I suspect that if you asked 100 random people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.MikeL said:
That's the key.Chameleon said:Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
What matters is what's remembered.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.0 -
52/48 would have fulfilled the Banter Heuristic.CorrectHorseBattery said:That poll seems pretty fair tbh
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My daughter proposed a drinking game where you had to have a drink every time Boris went back to Brexit. Thank goodness we didn’t take her up on it (hic).1
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“I agree with Nick”.glw said:
I suspect that if you asked random 100 people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.MikeL said:
That's the key.Chameleon said:Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
What matters is what's remembered.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.0 -
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OuchCorrectHorseBattery said:51/49 Johnson/Corbyn
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I'd challenge the use of the word "famous" there...Harris_Tweed said:“You’re watching ITV - 9 o’clock now, and time for bollocks to go *in* to famous people’s mouths for an hour”.
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I think Corbyn was stronger on everything but Brexit. So I guess 51/49 is fair.
Annoyed because I backed the wrong side and lost by 2 points
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Has there been a debate or something?
I wonder we're still just marking time on the naughty stool and going through the motions.0 -
It's Nico doh.....GideonWise said:
Are you for real? How could that performance improve his image?nico67 said:Regardless of any snap poll Corbyn got what he wanted . I fail to see how this doesn’t improve his image.
I think the order of the questions helped him, the Brexit part was a struggle , after that he was much better .
I can't get my head round how anyone could think what you just wrote.0 -
Demand a recount. I'm sure it was 52:48.....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I'm really not sure anyones minds will be swayed much from that.
So Corbyn loses a 'game change' opportunity.0 -
Why does he have to answer that question? He is neutral. Leave it to the people to decide and he'll implement it. I think that's fair enough. I certainly don't think it is a killer question though Johnson obviously thinks it is.TOPPING said:
Is he in favour of leaving or remaining in the EU, Nick? He is leader of one of our two main political parties. What is his view? Let's let him lead us all.NickPalmer said:Clear Corbyn win by the end in my view, but let's see what the snap poll says.
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And he said nobody should have to sell their homeMikeL said:Boris did say he will have a policy on social care in the Con manifesto.
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Steady as she goes, which i what the blues need.0
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This image is why I doubt any of the debates will make much difference unless they can improve JCs ratings
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/11968610902458613760 -
That's Fri 29 NovBig_G_NorthWales said:Could you imagine if that debate had been with all the leaders
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Arguably poor for Boris given Con poll lead.
But demographics of TV viewers may not match whole population.
But no way did anything significant enough happen to move many votes.0 -
Johnson had a clear strategy and he executed it well. Corbyn didn't, so Johnson's weaknesses were left untested.Philip_Thompson said:I may be biased but I think Boris did better than I expected there.
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Getting an STD is probably more popular than Corbyn.spudgfsh said:This image is why I doubt any of the debates will make much difference unless they can improve JCs ratings
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/11968610902458613760 -
You’re missing the point . He came across more personable and likeable . And I’m not a Corbyn fan .GideonWise said:
Are you for real? How could that performance improve his image?nico67 said:Regardless of any snap poll Corbyn got what he wanted . I fail to see how this doesn’t improve his image.
I think the order of the questions helped him, the Brexit part was a struggle , after that he was much better .
I can't get my head round how anyone could think what you just wrote.0 -
Basically a draw. That’ll do.RobD said:0 -
Will most postal votes have been cast by then?Ave_it said:
That's Fri 29 NovBig_G_NorthWales said:Could you imagine if that debate had been with all the leaders
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Yeah, makes sense. Labour will trumpet is as showing Corbyn is a lot more liked than his doubters say, Tories will be disappointed its not more, but show they are ahead.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Between the "GEDDIN THE HOLE" guy and the "STOP BREXIT" guy.MarqueeMark said:
Worse. They should be on the first tee in Hell, with the guy who shouts out "In the hole!"Drutt said:Both leaders got people in the crowd shouting 'woo'.
Can I just repeat that there is no torture too medieval, no bit of Lego too sharp to kneel upon, and no upturned plug too inconveniently located on a nighttime trip to the bathroom for people who shout woo in a debate or comedy audience.
It's the bellwether signifier of the douchebag.
They should be put somewhere that Dante cut from the Inferno because it wouldn't get past the censors.0 -
Not really, brit classics come from interviews usually. But did you threaten to overrule him?glw said:
I suspect that if you asked 100 random people to name something memorable that happened in a political debate hardly anyone would have an answer. Those that do would probably mention Nixon vs. JFK, Reagan's answer to Mondale about his age, and maybe Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" retort to Quayle.MikeL said:
That's the key.Chameleon said:Corbyn narrow win, but all his lines will be forgotten within a few hours, whereas 'get brexit done' will stick in the mind.
What matters is what's remembered.
Has any British election TV debate produced a really memorable moment? Nothing springs to mind.0 -
Ok so an even debate that Johnson just edges on points.
Who wins the soundbite / meme war?
I think Johnson by, oh I don't know, an absolute country mile.0 -
Good news!
In Labour's manifesto launch tomorrow they will announce the Nationalisation of leadership debates.0 -
They will. How could they get worse? How much by will be the thing.spudgfsh said:This image is why I doubt any of the debates will make much difference unless they can improve JCs ratings
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/11968610902458613760 -
I know people tend to think Lewis Goodall is a Labour partisan, but he makes a good point on Twitter:
Corbyn is way behind on satisfaction ratings and way back in the polls. So if 49% of people reckon he won the debate, that's an above-par result.
Maybe we will see a #corbynsurge after all.0 -
Bearing in mind Corbyn is hated, I think he'll be pleased with a loss within MoE0
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Naught but Tory propagandaspudgfsh said:This image is why I doubt any of the debates will make much difference unless they can improve JCs ratings
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1196861090245861376 0 -
nichomar is saying its a dead heat.
nico67 says Corbyn won it.
noo hasn't commented yet but will obviously saying Corbyn smashed it.
Just saying.0 -
Getting a tax bill from a JC government is more popularozymandias said:
Getting an STD is probably more popular than Corbyn.spudgfsh said:This image is why I doubt any of the debates will make much difference unless they can improve JCs ratings
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/11968610902458613760 -
Corbyn the winner - he's clearly not the best that Labour has got but more than a match for the mendacious disingenuous racist buffoon that leads the Conservative party (and yes there is much better in the Conservative party too!).1
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My thoughts the same.El_Capitano said:I know people tend to think Lewis Goodall is a Labour partisan, but he makes a good point on Twitter:
Corbyn is way behind on satisfaction ratings and way back in the polls. So if 49% of people reckon he won the debate, that's an above-par result.
Maybe we will see a #corbynsurge after all.
Seems to me 50% of the audience went for "get Brexit done" and the other half groaned.
The final result makes sense.0 -
If the Tories really are far ahead, undecideds breaking mostly Labour wouldn't save them. Personally I simply don't believe they are that far ahead.CorrectHorseBattery said:
When will people learn, it's about the undecidedsTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thanks everyone for watching it, so I didn't have to.7
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I've just agreed with Daisley and it is now officially the end times.Flashy4 said:0 -
Or, you could say it splits along BXP/tory vs lab/ld/SNP lines almost perfectlyEl_Capitano said:I know people tend to think Lewis Goodall is a Labour partisan, but he makes a good point on Twitter:
Corbyn is way behind on satisfaction ratings and way back in the polls. So if 49% of people reckon he won the debate, that's an above-par result.
Maybe we will see a #corbynsurge after all.0 -
God damn that's a load off my anxiety. The polls may still tighten once all the Labour goodies get their airing this week, but I'm no longer afraid of the black swan that Corbyn might have had the ability to dazzle Boris in a one-on-one duel. That's huge - at least for me!0
