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  • philiph said:

    I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    Indeed, download a form, print it, fill it in and post it to the Council.

    Sooo hard.....
    Don't know why everyone doesn't do it. I usually return mine on the day it arrives. My polling station is just around the corner but why take the chance of something cropping up on the day?
  • I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    Yes but this year the CWU aren't delivering them
    That has not been announced but it is also subject to a high court action from royal mail
  • Growth 0.3% - no recession
  • matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
  • JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited November 2019

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    HYUFD and his ilk are such jessies that they insist that they'd probably win a ref but refuse to have one.

    BJ and the Brexityoons, more cowardly than Corbyn Labour.
    Given the separatist majority in Holyrood you'd have had your indyref2 by now if you hadn't bleated continually "once in a generation opportunity" in indyref1
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,695

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    11th Nov is Taranto Night and the only night of the year I drink. I am usually called upon to recount the "Hong Kong Story" which will never be told on pb.com as constitutions are too delicate to take it. It makes the "Poland Story" look like Enid Blyton.

    Presume this commemorates the battle of the same name? My dad was crash crew on a windy RN base in NI towards the end of the war and they still had Swordfish operating then; he loved those planes, to the point of commissioning me to do a drawing of one.
  • I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    I don't want a postal vote for every election though. I don't particularly trust the post.
    You can take it in to the polling station
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962


    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a long way

    Unfortunately, I suspect a number of your fellow Conservatives won't be doing much in the way of humility. The stench of triumphalism is already palpable from parts of the west country for example.

    There's a lot of fences to be mended by the next Government and we are going to need more than a few words from Boris if he walks back into No.10. If he genuinely wants to make Britain "the greatest place on Earth" than it has to be so for everybody not just the fortunate.

    It has to be the greatest place for the unfortunate as well whatever their circumstances.

  • Noo said:

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
    Charming as ever.
  • philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,032
    edited November 2019

    Noo said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a longway
    It's not humility. It's because deep down you know voting for a racist is wrong. But you've heaped layers of self-justification on top and smothered that nagging little voice. It's pitiful to watch.
    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    I refuse to be drawn by his nonsense. He is to be petied
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    bleated continually "once in a generation opportunity" in indyref1

    :D
    goodness, you've left yourself wide open there

  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a longway
    Six months ago you could not stand Boris. Nowadays you defend his every policy.

    When he wins I will not be surprised if you are wearing a party hat whilst passing around the hors d'ouvres....
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
    Charming as ever.
    morning, plank
  • How can the Tories get away with asking us to vote for them to 'get Brexit done'? If they get a majority the withdrawal agreement will pass but then there will be at least two years, maybe much more, before a free trade agreement is made and we really exit. That part will make the withdrawal agreement look easy, in fact we could still be looking at a No Deal Brexit after all.
    Labour's policy will mean six months for renegotiation then three more for the referendum, after which God knows what will happen.
    If people really want Brexit over so we can concentrate on the important stuff then Revoke is the only option.

    This is Brexit. Logic has no place...
  • stodge said:


    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a long way

    Unfortunately, I suspect a number of your fellow Conservatives won't be doing much in the way of humility. The stench of triumphalism is already palpable from parts of the west country for example.

    There's a lot of fences to be mended by the next Government and we are going to need more than a few words from Boris if he walks back into No.10. If he genuinely wants to make Britain "the greatest place on Earth" than it has to be so for everybody not just the fortunate.

    It has to be the greatest place for the unfortunate as well whatever their circumstances.

    I agree 100%
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    I ignore him

    You ignore the racism of your Dear Leader.
    Why do you think I give YOU such a hard time over this? It's because you've shown signs that you know the difference between right and wrong. Half the Tories on here are just tribal psychos, no hope for them. But you, you actually know better. And you choose the path you know to be wrong. That makes you the absolute worst.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,412

    I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    I don't want a postal vote for every election though. I don't particularly trust the post.
    You can take it in to the polling station
    Which halves the risk.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775
    Do the Scots buy the idea that independence is a thing in this election? This is a Brexit election, and independence comes into it as a corollary, but how exactly? Does "taking us out of Europe against our will" strengthen the case for a second independence referendum? The SNP wants two referendums - on EU membership and on independence. They are allied with Labour in this position. The SLDs and the SCons are alike in not wanting any referendums, and are both pro-Union but opposed on the EU. So on policies the SNP and SLab stand together and their opponents are split. That is only good for the SNP I would say.


  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,695

    philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
    Which maybe enhances the accuracy, or maybe not.
  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a longway
    Six months ago you could not stand Boris. Nowadays you defend his every policy.

    When he wins I will not be surprised if you are wearing a party hat whilst passing around the hors d'ouvres....
    Sorry to disappoint you but my only toast would be to see the end of the Corbyn threat

    Nothing else matters to me
  • How can the Tories get away with asking us to vote for them to 'get Brexit done'? If they get a majority the withdrawal agreement will pass but then there will be at least two years, maybe much more, before a free trade agreement is made and we really exit. That part will make the withdrawal agreement look easy, in fact we could still be looking at a No Deal Brexit after all.
    Labour's policy will mean six months for renegotiation then three more for the referendum, after which God knows what will happen.
    If people really want Brexit over so we can concentrate on the important stuff then Revoke is the only option.

    This is Brexit. Logic has no place...
    From the person who said that numbers do not matter.
  • Charles said:

    Thornberry being taken apart over Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years on R4

    Barely bothering to try frankly.

    I'm surprised she would try. It's hard to think of one that was an unqualified success, except Sierra Leone, which Jeremy did back. I find Johnson's eagerness to support any US military action genuinely scary in the current climate.
    Gulf War 1? Falklands?
    Gulf War is the biggest foreign policy fu$k up since the last one.

    And the Falklands? Wtf??? What the hell are we doing sacrificing lives to defend a bit of rock 8000 miles away. Utterly preposterous bellicose colonialist nonsense.
    Erm, the Falklands? Self determination? Heard of that principle, or maybe you don't believe in that?
    Absolutely not.

    We sailed around the world conquering places and peoples, dumping our own kith and kin and then claiming the places as our own.

    Colonialism belongs to 300 years ago.
    Quite frankly I think it’s irrelevant in the modern world how people ended up inhabiting different parts of the globe, they could have come from the moon for all I care, but it is now quite right that those that have settled have the right to determine their own future.
    In general I agree with this, but I have qualms where it rewards recent actions to ethnically cleanse or settle areas where the local inhabitants don't have a say - main examples I can think of are Tibet, Xinjiang and the Occupied Territories of Palestine.

    Where is the dividing line between "these people have been bussed in to steal land" and "these people aren't responsible for the crimes of history" ?
  • I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    I don't want a postal vote for every election though. I don't particularly trust the post.
    You can take it in to the polling station
    Which makes it pointless?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,412

    Skills wallet?

    FFS

    The country has been crying out for dome kind of new wallet.
    A Freudian slip, thinking of the Millenium Dome perhaps.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962
    stodge said:



    Unfortunately, I suspect a number of your fellow Conservatives won't be doing much in the way of humility. The stench of triumphalism is already palpable from parts of the west country for example.

    There's a lot of fences to be mended by the next Government and we are going to need more than a few words from Boris if he walks back into No.10. If he genuinely wants to make Britain "the greatest place on Earth" than it has to be so for everybody not just the fortunate.

    It has to be the greatest place for the unfortunate as well whatever their circumstances.

    I agree 100%
    How then is this to be achieved? Where are the policies from the Conservative "tsunami of Tory ideas" to improve the quality of life for the infirm, the disabled, the chronically ill or those with mental health problems not to forget those who care for them and of course the elderly.

    Being an elderly person alone in London is just plain awful - how do we make life better for the lonely?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    HYUFD and his ilk are such jessies that they insist that they'd probably win a ref but refuse to have one.

    BJ and the Brexityoons, more cowardly than Corbyn Labour.
    Or maybe we just have a better handle on what constitutes a "generation"? I mean, I know life is short and brutal in Scotland, but even so....you aren't exactly Mayflies.
  • HYUFD said:

    LDs propose a £10 000 skills fund for all adults of working age over 65 funded by a rise in corporation tax

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50367650

    The skills wallets are real!
    Can I buy one or do I get one free?
    They're only for the quiet bat people.
  • I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    I don't want a postal vote for every election though. I don't particularly trust the post.
    You can take it in to the polling station
    Which makes it pointless?
    Not really. I would post it fairly quickly and get on with my life

    However, if the royal mail were on strike or adverse weather forecast I could still vote by going to the polling station with it
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a longway
    Six months ago you could not stand Boris. Nowadays you defend his every policy.

    When he wins I will not be surprised if you are wearing a party hat whilst passing around the hors d'ouvres....
    Sorry to disappoint you but my only toast would be to see the end of the Corbyn threat

    Nothing else matters to me
    A view shared by countless millions.....
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Noo said:

    IanB2 said:

    That's an astute comment. To adapt to being the majority party its particular appeal to those areas that sustained it during the early days is reducing.

    You could argue a parallel with the "celtic fringe" seats that sustained the LibDems through the early postwar period; yet now the party is reorienting toward university seats and middle class London and the Home Counties.

    As you say, part of the process of transformation. The SNP have nearly completed the project of replacing Labour and, that being the case, you'd naturally expect their support in rural and more affluent areas to gently decline. If and when independence comes and they turn themselves into a more conventional social democratic party, that trend should accelerate.

    Under the present circumstances its very easy to imagine Labour going back down to one seat, and relations between the likely sole survivor and the Corbynites are so bad that he's not far short of being an independent Unionist anyway. I wonder if they might also go sub-10% in Scotland? They were already down to 12% in that big YouGov survey from the end of last month IIRC, and there's time enough left for that to be squeezed. I suppose it depends how accurate that value is, and whether or not the whole of that last 12% are reflexive, mostly elderly habit voters.

    The marketplace for a Far Left, vaguely pro-Union and all-over-the-place on Europe party, complete with a leader even more unpopular in Scotland than Boris, can't be that big? Can it?
    I'm not sure I agree with the "vaguely" part of "vaguely pro union". Labour put their heart and soul into the No campaign. Sadly for them, it turns out they were on the other side of the fence from half their core support. And aside from ambiguous noises about "allowing" a referendum, I don't see any vagueness. In fact, Labour probably have the most sensible unionist position of all. The Conservatives are opposed to the democratic process completely, and the Lib Dems -- who will nevertheless get my vote -- are hypocritical about EU/indy referendums.
    Ah, but the problem for SLAB is the high command in London, which is dominated by the Socialist Friends of Sinn Fein. Why anyone should expect them to be any more concerned about the Union with Scotland than that with Northern Ireland I've no idea. Besides which, one gains the distinct impression that they would be more than happy to toss their failing Edinburgh branch office on the scrap heap in exchange for C&S with the SNP bloc in the Commons.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,412

    Charles said:

    Thornberry being taken apart over Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years on R4

    Barely bothering to try frankly.

    I'm surprised she would try. It's hard to think of one that was an unqualified success, except Sierra Leone, which Jeremy did back. I find Johnson's eagerness to support any US military action genuinely scary in the current climate.
    Gulf War 1? Falklands?
    Gulf War is the biggest foreign policy fu$k up since the last one.

    And the Falklands? Wtf??? What the hell are we doing sacrificing lives to defend a bit of rock 8000 miles away. Utterly preposterous bellicose colonialist nonsense.
    Erm, the Falklands? Self determination? Heard of that principle, or maybe you don't believe in that?
    Absolutely not.

    We sailed around the world conquering places and peoples, dumping our own kith and kin and then claiming the places as our own.

    Colonialism belongs to 300 years ago.
    Quite frankly I think it’s irrelevant in the modern world how people ended up inhabiting different parts of the globe, they could have come from the moon for all I care, but it is now quite right that those that have settled have the right to determine their own future.
    In general I agree with this, but I have qualms where it rewards recent actions to ethnically cleanse or settle areas where the local inhabitants don't have a say - main examples I can think of are Tibet, Xinjiang and the Occupied Territories of Palestine.

    Where is the dividing line between "these people have been bussed in to steal land" and "these people aren't responsible for the crimes of history" ?
    The only difference is a couple of generations.
  • Lord West, ex labour minister on skynews just taking Corbyn to pieces on defence. Another Tory social media clip will no doubt follow.
  • How can the Tories get away with asking us to vote for them to 'get Brexit done'? If they get a majority the withdrawal agreement will pass but then there will be at least two years, maybe much more, before a free trade agreement is made and we really exit. That part will make the withdrawal agreement look easy, in fact we could still be looking at a No Deal Brexit after all.
    Labour's policy will mean six months for renegotiation then three more for the referendum, after which God knows what will happen.
    If people really want Brexit over so we can concentrate on the important stuff then Revoke is the only option.

    This is Brexit. Logic has no place...
    From the person who said that numbers do not matter.
    They do not. That is why logic cannot win. People run on perception, not logic.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    philiph said:

    I am certain that turnout will be down this year. Comparing it to the 1920's, when turnout was significantly higher than recent times, won't wash.

    Whatever the Metropolitans like to think, weather and daylight does affect propensity to go outside. My guess is that the relative turnout dip will be among older people. In which case, who would that affect more?

    Feel free to dismiss this as it's just a hunch, but I think turnout will be below 70% and I'm betting below 65%.


    I’m betting on low turnout too but a bigger factor will be that people simply aren’t enthused by either of the main offerings and have better things to do.

    My university friends and I organise a Christmas catch-up and party every year, and it’s on Thursday 12th December this year - diarised before the election.

    None of us are cancelling it.
    I know it is good not to rush important decisions, but even so I don't think you need to be a time management ninja to fit in both voting and a party on the same day.
    It depends on the timing. When I go into the office I normally catch a bus before 7am - before the polling station opens. We now have the work Christmas party on the 12th, so if it weren't for the election I'd be out of our constituency until nearly midnight too, well after polls close at 10pm.

    If I didn't want to go to the hassle of organising a postal vote I might kid myself that I can leave early and make it back for 10pm, but then I might fail to do so, or my train might be delayed (I missed voting one election due to a delayed train). Or I might plan to go to work a bit late, after voting, but I'm such a creature of habit I could be on the bus before remembering about the election.

    It's not that it makes it impossible to vote, but it does make it harder and that will make a difference at the margins.
    Obtaining a postal vote is so easy and you just renew it as and when the council contacts you
    Indeed, download a form, print it, fill it in and post it to the Council.

    Sooo hard.....
    I don't have a printer at home. My argument isn't that it's hard, but that there are extra barriers to participation - all other things being equal those barriers will reduce turnout.
    Ah - the highly paid Labour mp defence
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938
    Noo said:

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
    Your every utterance is just pure gold......
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,837

    HYUFD said:

    LDs propose a £10 000 skills fund for all adults of working age over 65 funded by a rise in corporation tax

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50367650

    The skills wallets are real!
    Can I buy one or do I get one free?
    The way it works is this. Before the election, the Lib Dems promise to put £10,000 into your wallet. The day after the election they decide it will be better to take £10,000 out of it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775
    Once you have a postal vote you have to go through hoops to renounce it. I prefer to actually go to the polling station place to get a sense of participation in the great civic activity of an election, but the pv duly arrives a fortnight before election day and preempts it. I know I can hand it in on the day, but the magic of the stubby pencil mark in individual booth is lost.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
    Charming as ever.
    morning, plank
    QED

    Idiot
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Being in close proximity does not determine ownership.
    We shouldn't behave like colonial arseholes for a lump of rock 8000 miles away.

    It's pathetic.
    So, we should have let the invasion stand?

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Voting by post feels shit.

    Voting at a polling station feels awesome.
  • Lifelong Tories moving to Lib Dems in Letwin's old seat, the only evidence so far is their willingness to tell you what they are going to do. There could be some big surprises. Boris is certainly Marmite around here.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Thank you Charles and others for kind thoughts. Losing your life partner is awful but it does get easier with time. I do focus on happier times and irs the right advice to give to other in a similar situation .
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2019

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    Close proximity? The Falklands are about 300 miles from Argentina, whereas the Channel Islands are less than 100 miles from the UK.

    The Falkland Islands are in the South Atlantic. They only appear to be in close proximity to Argentina in comparison to their proximity to... the UK.
    So what? North Rhine-Westphalia is 300 miles from the UK, does that make that part of Germany belong to the UK?

    The Falkland Islands future belongs to the Falkland Islanders and not to Argentina.

    EDIT: My apologies I just realised I misread your post and you were making the same point as I am.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited November 2019
    Alistair said:

    In 2017 the SNP made the election about Brexit. Completely downplayed Independence. Tried to appeal to Remainders.

    Two things happened:
    Their vote went down to 37% with activists deeply disgruntled.
    Their opponents and the media constantly screamed - "The SNP keep banging on about independence non stop vote no to Independence.

    So, given this why would the SNP not make this election about independence?

    But the areas that support for Scottish independence is highest are seats that SNP are going to take anyway (Lab central belt seats) and the areas where independence is less popular (in the wealthier parts of Scotland), is where the gains for the SNP are less certain.


    So what is the benefit for them in making this election about independence in turns of maximizing the number of GAINS the SNP make?
  • Lifelong Tories moving to Lib Dems in Letwin's old seat, the only evidence so far is their willingness to tell you what they are going to do. There could be some big surprises. Boris is certainly Marmite around here.

    What??!! Letwin is deeply unpopular in West Dorset!!

    One reason he didnt stand again was because hed lose. And badly...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited November 2019
    A case of not seeing the wood for the single bud on a small branch of one nondescript tree.

    "BA said that its fuel tankering generated 18,000 tonnes of additional CO2 per year – less than 0.1% of its overall emissions..."
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,421

    Dura_Ace said:

    11th Nov is Taranto Night and the only night of the year I drink. I am usually called upon to recount the "Hong Kong Story" which will never be told on pb.com as constitutions are too delicate to take it. It makes the "Poland Story" look like Enid Blyton.

    Presume this commemorates the battle of the same name? My dad was crash crew on a windy RN base in NI towards the end of the war and they still had Swordfish operating then; he loved those planes, to the point of commissioning me to do a drawing of one.
    The FAA are still operating a Swordfish now!

    Read "War in a Stringbag" by Cdr Charles Lamb DSO, DSC, RN for an unsparing account of what flying and fighting in a Swordfish was like.
  • Noo said:

    Your "evidence" that Boris is a racist is far, far less convincing than my evidence that Corbyn facilitates anti-semitism.

    Corbyn's got nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not voting for him, you aren't, Little G isn't. So take your whataboutery and cram it up your hoop.
    Your every utterance is just pure gold......
    He's an idiot.

    Best ignored.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775

    Thank you Charles and others for kind thoughts. Losing your life partner is awful but it does get easier with time. I do focus on happier times and irs the right advice to give to other in a similar situation .

    It was quite jolt to me when you told us seven years ago, but good to hear you've recovered.
  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    HYUFD and his ilk are such jessies that they insist that they'd probably win a ref but refuse to have one.

    BJ and the Brexityoons, more cowardly than Corbyn Labour.
    Or maybe we just have a better handle on what constitutes a "generation"? I mean, I know life is short and brutal in Scotland, but even so....you aren't exactly Mayflies.
    Yep, you gammony chaps in the south of England are definitely the best people to decide on whether Scotland is 'allowed' to have a referendum.

    Given the rage over low powered vacuum cleaners, I can just imagine the level of empurplement if Brussels had made some pronouncement on whether you were allowed to hold your self destructive little stushie.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    Growth 0.3% - no recession

    I wouldn't cheer about that number if I was the tories.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    "no recession" isnt exactly the biggest enthusiasm booster.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    11th Nov is Taranto Night and the only night of the year I drink. I am usually called upon to recount the "Hong Kong Story" which will never be told on pb.com as constitutions are too delicate to take it. It makes the "Poland Story" look like Enid Blyton.

    Presume this commemorates the battle of the same name? My dad was crash crew on a windy RN base in NI towards the end of the war and they still had Swordfish operating then; he loved those planes, to the point of commissioning me to do a drawing of one.
    The FAA are still operating a Swordfish now!

    Read "War in a Stringbag" by Cdr Charles Lamb DSO, DSC, RN for an unsparing account of what flying and fighting in a Swordfish was like.
    Ha, I think I bought that for him one Christmas. Pretty sure I still have it in a trunk of his books, must dig it out.
  • nunu2 said:

    Growth 0.3% - no recession

    I wouldn't cheer about that number if I was the tories.
    Germany going into recession this week - we are not
  • Yep, you gammony chaps in the south of England are definitely the best people to decide on whether Scotland is 'allowed' to have a referendum.

    Given the rage over low powered vacuum cleaners, I can just imagine the level of empurplement if Brussels had made some pronouncement on whether you were allowed to hold your self destructive little stushie.

    As far as I can tell the Scots have voted to permit Westminster to determine when you can have a referendum on three occassions now.

    1: When you endorsed the Scottish Parliament devolution in the 90s this was explicitly a reserved matter.
    2: When Alex Salmond agreed the 'once in a generation' referendum it was on the basis this was a reserved matter and this would be permitted this one time.
    3: When you Scots voted No in the referendum you voted to keep this a reserved matter.

    If you'd voted Yes in the referendum this would not be a reserved matter anymore. Don't blame the English for it being one, you should have voted Yes last time if you wanted to be an independent country.

    Hopefully you get another referendum soon and do vote Yes this time, I think it will be best for both Scotland and England, but don't claim some moral high ground when your compatriots have voted to keep this reserved.
  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    HYUFD and his ilk are such jessies that they insist that they'd probably win a ref but refuse to have one.

    BJ and the Brexityoons, more cowardly than Corbyn Labour.
    Or maybe we just have a better handle on what constitutes a "generation"? I mean, I know life is short and brutal in Scotland, but even so....you aren't exactly Mayflies.
    Yep, you gammony chaps in the south of England are definitely the best people to decide on whether Scotland is 'allowed' to have a referendum.

    Given the rage over low powered vacuum cleaners, I can just imagine the level of empurplement if Brussels had made some pronouncement on whether you were allowed to hold your self destructive little stushie.
    Sounds like sedition talk. Enjoy your jail cell.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited November 2019
    Sky have a piece on Wigan and will it go blue.
    Spoiler - it will not (18% swing, not Tory since 1910), 90th safest labour seat
  • Sounds like sedition talk. Enjoy your jail cell.

    We're not Spain, we're better than them. You and HYUFD are embarrassing.
  • Yep, you gammony chaps in the south of England are definitely the best people to decide on whether Scotland is 'allowed' to have a referendum.

    Given the rage over low powered vacuum cleaners, I can just imagine the level of empurplement if Brussels had made some pronouncement on whether you were allowed to hold your self destructive little stushie.

    As far as I can tell the Scots have voted to permit Westminster to determine when you can have a referendum on three occassions now.

    1: When you endorsed the Scottish Parliament devolution in the 90s this was explicitly a reserved matter.
    2: When Alex Salmond agreed the 'once in a generation' referendum it was on the basis this was a reserved matter and this would be permitted this one time.
    3: When you Scots voted No in the referendum you voted to keep this a reserved matter.

    If you'd voted Yes in the referendum this would not be a reserved matter anymore. Don't blame the English for it being one, you should have voted Yes last time if you wanted to be an independent country.

    Hopefully you get another referendum soon and do vote Yes this time, I think it will be best for both Scotland and England, but don't claim some moral high ground when your compatriots have voted to keep this reserved.
    I'm not particularly claiming moral high ground, I just know who occupies the low ground. A ditch, as it were.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,122

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...
    Ask the Kosovans whether military intervention helped them or not. (Also ask yourself whether Corbyn was on the side of Milosovic or the Bosnian Muslims he was killing).

    The IRA agreed to talk because (a) they realised that their violence was not going to win ie the military action which the British had taken was successful in stopping the IRA winning ( even though it was not able to defeat them militarily); and (b) they had been thoroughly infiltrated by the British.

    There is no record of Corbyn ever having reached out or talked to any armed group or party in a conflict he has not agreed with, despite the lies he and his supporters say on a regular basis about him wanting to talk on all sides. Indeed, on occasion he has campaigned to stop people he does not like being heard or invited for talks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147
    Alistair said:

    Voting by post feels shit.

    Voting at a polling station feels awesome.

    Yes, but what if you're not in the country? :/
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,122

    Thornberry being taken apart over Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years on R4

    Barely bothering to try frankly.

    I'm surprised she would try. It's hard to think of one that was an unqualified success, except Sierra Leone, which Jeremy did back. I find Johnson's eagerness to support any US military action genuinely scary in the current climate.
    How about Kosovo?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    You've got to feel for Emily Thornberry. She's been sent out on the red-eye watch to expain how Jeremy Corbyn is going to improve the lot of the British armed sevices!

    He will save their lives by keeping them at home!
    Corbyn's lack of appetite for foreign adventurism would also fix the current retention and resourcing problems. 80% of RN's ratings leave within 4 years yet the Fireplace Salesman and Sub/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt were more concerned with announcing what vessels due to be launched 15 years hence would be named.
    According to Grant Shapps/Michael Green ex servicemen will be given free rail travel for life. So leaving the forces after basic training might prove to be a smart move for long term commuters.
  • Yeah how shocking but the lesson from Venezuela's failure to shift a single British vote last time round is the only two groups who give a damn about rum goings-on in South America are Jeremy Corbyn and CCHQ's campaign team.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 333

    Lifelong Tories moving to Lib Dems in Letwin's old seat, the only evidence so far is their willingness to tell you what they are going to do. There could be some big surprises. Boris is certainly Marmite around here.

    I'm a new voter in West Dorset and the LibDems will get hammered!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,122

    philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
    I’m wondering how the hell a bare-root rose would survive the journey to the Falklands.

    Thanks for the article @AlastairMeeks. Brilliant first sentence!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962


    Germany going into recession this week - we are not

    And yet annual growth is 1% at a time of historically high employment, record numbers of vacancies and an ever growing population adding to the workforce.

    We could and should be doing so much better but in the current economic model recruiting extra labour is easier than investing in technology to drive business efficiencies. Productivity remains poor because we are either unable or unwilling to innovate and rely on a Service sector parts of which remain heavily labour-intensive.

  • Cyclefree said:

    philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...

    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
    I’m wondering how the hell a bare-root rose would survive the journey to the Falklands.

    Thanks for the article @AlastairMeeks. Brilliant first sentence!
    I'm much misunderstood.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147
    Surely the coup attempt took place in Bolivia when Morales tried to stuff the ballot boxes?
  • Meanwhile, this looks useful for considering constituency betting:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1193635894294695939
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775
    stodge said:


    Germany going into recession this week - we are not

    And yet annual growth is 1% at a time of historically high employment, record numbers of vacancies and an ever growing population adding to the workforce.

    We could and should be doing so much better but in the current economic model recruiting extra labour is easier than investing in technology to drive business efficiencies. Productivity remains poor because we are either unable or unwilling to innovate and rely on a Service sector parts of which remain heavily labour-intensive.

    Your second paragraph partly explains the first.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147
    stodge said:


    Germany going into recession this week - we are not

    And yet annual growth is 1% at a time of historically high employment, record numbers of vacancies and an ever growing population adding to the workforce.

    We could and should be doing so much better but in the current economic model recruiting extra labour is easier than investing in technology to drive business efficiencies. Productivity remains poor because we are either unable or unwilling to innovate and rely on a Service sector parts of which remain heavily labour-intensive.

    And you don't think that's related to having a virtually unlimited pool of cheap labour available?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,122
    edited November 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...
    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
    I’m wondering how the hell a bare-root rose would survive the journey to the Falklands.

    Thanks for the article @AlastairMeeks. Brilliant first sentence!
    I'm much misunderstood.
    @Pulpstar thought my last header was written by you, which I take as a great compliment (though you might not, of course).
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    stodge said:


    Germany going into recession this week - we are not

    And yet annual growth is 1% at a time of historically high employment, record numbers of vacancies and an ever growing population adding to the workforce.

    Cheap labour is limitless. I see it where we work. Poles, Romanians and Portuguese are available off the shelf and will work basically under any terms.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    philiph said:

    matt said:

    Z

    Floater said:

    Jezza's refusal to back any miliatry action in 40 years

    Bravo. Good for him.

    Look at the total world shitshow that our military interventions have caused.

    And he was absolutely right about Sinn Fein: dialogue led to the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's better to talk ...
    According to you Gulf War 1 and the Falklands were wrong too then....
    You bet they were. Falklands is the biggest crock of shit ever. Give it back to Argentina and stop behaving like C19th arseholes.
    Argentina has never owned the islands. Do check your facts. Being in close proximity does not determine ownership. Maybe you think we should give the channel islands to the French?
    St Pierre and Miquelon call to say fishing rights are important.
    My firm has an office in the Falklands. It's had one in Iraq in the past. Don't mention St Pierre and Miquelon. You'll give them ideas.
    We have the odd customer there.
    That sentence could be read two ways.
    I’m wondering how the hell a bare-root rose would survive the journey to the Falklands.

    Thanks for the article @AlastairMeeks. Brilliant first sentence!
    I'm much misunderstood.
    @Pulpstar thought my last header was written by you, which I take as a great compliment (though you might not, of course).
    I thought it was an excellent header and I very much took it as a compliment - though perhaps our writing styles are converging!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,005

    nunu2 said:

    Growth 0.3% - no recession

    I wouldn't cheer about that number if I was the tories.
    Germany going into recession this week - we are not
    It's the next decade that concerns me, not the next seven days... :smile:
  • Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    You've got to feel for Emily Thornberry. She's been sent out on the red-eye watch to expain how Jeremy Corbyn is going to improve the lot of the British armed sevices!

    He will save their lives by keeping them at home!
    Corbyn's lack of appetite for foreign adventurism would also fix the current retention and resourcing problems. 80% of RN's ratings leave within 4 years yet the Fireplace Salesman and Sub/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt were more concerned with announcing what vessels due to be launched 15 years hence would be named.
    According to Grant Shapps/Michael Green ex servicemen will be given free rail travel for life. So leaving the forces after basic training might prove to be a smart move for long term commuters.
    Hard to understand why I should pay tax so a retired Colonel can get a free commute to his job in the City.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,005
    Xtrain said:

    Lifelong Tories moving to Lib Dems in Letwin's old seat, the only evidence so far is their willingness to tell you what they are going to do. There could be some big surprises. Boris is certainly Marmite around here.

    I'm a new voter in West Dorset and the LibDems will get hammered!
    At the victory celebration or the wake ?
  • malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what's the minimum target for a successful night for the SNP? 40?

    Obviously here again we come back to expectations. Last time they won 35 seats, well over half, and looked badly damaged because they had lost over 20 seats. Daft, but that's how politics works.

    But I think if there are not overall gains on the night Sturgeon will in trouble, trouble that is not going to be eased by certain events early next year.

    To get back to 2015 levels and recover all their 2017 losses, the SNP need to win 56 seats
    Thank you, Hyufd, I am aware of that, but that wasn’t my question.
    Given 2015 was pre Brexit and the EU referendum, the SNP need at least 57 seats to say the Brexit vote has changed things such that indyref2 is needed in my view
    Its not like you have an ulterior motive or inherent bias or anything though is it?
    The SNP got 50% of the vote in 2015, so if they are to get over 50% of the vote and thus claim a mandate for indyref2 they need to make gains on 2015 in votes and seats
    I could reply to this comment with the exact same thing I said in my previous post.

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
    It does if the Tories win a majority as we Tories will decide if the SNP get their indyref2, as Boris has made clear we will not grant one as on current polling there is no need for one, 2014 was meant to be a once in a generation vote, Scots voted 55% No to independence and no evidence Yes are now the majority
    You really are an idiot , is that the "Royal We". When do you get your jackboots issued.
    The arrogance is breathtaking Malc

    If Boris wins there will not be any victory roll from this poster, humility goes a longway
    Six months ago you could not stand Boris. Nowadays you defend his every policy.

    When he wins I will not be surprised if you are wearing a party hat whilst passing around the hors d'ouvres....
    Sorry to disappoint you but my only toast would be to see the end of the Corbyn threat

    Nothing else matters to me
    A view shared by countless millions.....
    Counted millions surely? It is an election and they actually do count the votes ;)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,643

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    You've got to feel for Emily Thornberry. She's been sent out on the red-eye watch to expain how Jeremy Corbyn is going to improve the lot of the British armed sevices!

    He will save their lives by keeping them at home!
    Corbyn's lack of appetite for foreign adventurism would also fix the current retention and resourcing problems. 80% of RN's ratings leave within 4 years yet the Fireplace Salesman and Sub/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt were more concerned with announcing what vessels due to be launched 15 years hence would be named.
    According to Grant Shapps/Michael Green ex servicemen will be given free rail travel for life. So leaving the forces after basic training might prove to be a smart move for long term commuters.
    Hard to understand why I should pay tax so a retired Colonel can get a free commute to his job in the City.
    Railcards, not free travel, AAUI.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    stodge said:

    Unfortunately, I suspect a number of your fellow Conservatives won't be doing much in the way of humility. The stench of triumphalism is already palpable from parts of the west country for example.

    There's a lot of fences to be mended by the next Government and we are going to need more than a few words from Boris if he walks back into No.10. If he genuinely wants to make Britain "the greatest place on Earth" than it has to be so for everybody not just the fortunate.

    It has to be the greatest place for the unfortunate as well whatever their circumstances.

    I think "the stench of triumphalism" in the West Country, comes, Mr Stodge, mainly from the wealthy Tory blow-ins who have been buying the place up. Traditional Conservative voters are honest, reasonable and pragmatic, who just want to see sound government in London, not a gang of incompetents who play fast and loose with the economy and with people`s livelihoods.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,036
    Considering that Scots are canny people, I do find it odd that some Scottish Tories consider voting Labour, and vice versa, in order to keep SNP MPs out. This doesn't seem very intelligent at all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,005
    The Democrats in the impeachment hearings truly know how to grill a witness on the issues of greatest importance:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/09/impeachment-transcripts-hidden-gems-066854
    DANIEL NOBLE (Democratic counsel): “Are you a fan of the Oxford comma?”

    HILL: “I’m confused, is kind of basically where I am. Because when I was growing up, they changed the comma formatting, and then when I came here, I found there was all kinds of different comma formatting. So I tend to put commas everywhere.”...
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    In passing, I see that the replacement Tory candidate for East Devon is Raab`s spad. No further comment is needed, really.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,122
    Anyway, completely off topic and based on nothing at all other than a photo of the lovely Meghan at yesterday’s Remembrance Day Service, I think she may be pregnant again.

    There. I shall now stop using my old woman witch powers and do something useful with my day.
  • Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'm just presuming these are all faked by now.
    She truly is a moron. By far the worst advert for a Labour government.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,775
    Dadge said:

    Considering that Scots are canny people, I do find it odd that some Scottish Tories consider voting Labour, and vice versa, in order to keep SNP MPs out. This doesn't seem very intelligent at all.

    I am sure there will be less of that now that Labour has aligned itself with the SNP on the two referendums matter.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,036
    I'm saddened that so many democrats are in favour of military coups.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,643

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'm just presuming these are all faked by now.
    She truly is a moron. By far the worst advert for a Labour government.

    Hush your mouth. I am large green on her.

    Go Ezza!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    edited November 2019
    If anyone has doubts about Corbyn's ability as a master tactician look no further than Edinburgh South. The only seat Labour are likely to win in Scotland thanks to the personal vote of Ian Murray has just managed to fend off Jeremy's ferocious attempt to deselect him!
This discussion has been closed.