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  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    alb1on said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    I am not a Labour supporter but have come across Dogus. He is one of the few Labour candidates who could tempt me to vote Labour - especially in a constituency like WBE where it is him or the Conservative. One of the good guys.
    I had a quick look at the constituency on the HoC website. If the theory that seats become impossible for the Tories to win once the BAME percentage hits 30 is correct, then this one ought to be just about safe for Labour. But we shall see what transpires.
  • ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    The Russia report should have been published. I doubt there'd have been a voter backlash because there wasn't when George Osborne was found grubbing for Russian millions a decade or so back.
    Bit difficult for Labour to run with that given Mandelson had been on the same yacht also grubbing for money. This one should have been a free hit, unless of course it implicated Labour too.
    The press ran with it. Mandelson was not after the cash, having fallen out with Brown. The chain was that Osborne leaked what Mandelson said about Brown, and then Nat Rothschild leaked that Osborne was grubbing for roubles (illegally, of course). Yet the party and Osborne survived.

    Likewise reports about electoral malpractice in 2015 and funding irregularities and Russian activity in the referendum have not overturned Brexit.

    Decrepit's first law of politics: things that ought to matter, usually don't.
    Erhhh...you seemed to be misremembering what Mandelson's job was at that time and what the bloke on the yacht's main business was. And unlike Osborne, who went for dinner once, Mandy was being entertained over the summer by him.
    I think you will find I have the broad gist right. It was Osborne after the roubles. And the point is the new report that CCHQ is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Kremlin is unlikely to make more of a splash than yachtgate or the referendum revelations.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,372

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    The Russia report should have been published. I doubt there'd have been a voter backlash because there wasn't when George Osborne was found grubbing for Russian millions a decade or so back.
    Bit difficult for Labour to run with that given Mandelson had been on the same yacht also grubbing for money. This one should have been a free hit, unless of course it implicated Labour too.
    The press ran with it. Mandelson was not after the cash, having fallen out with Brown. The chain was that Osborne leaked what Mandelson said about Brown, and then Nat Rothschild leaked that Osborne was grubbing for roubles (illegally, of course). Yet the party and Osborne survived.

    Likewise reports about electoral malpractice in 2015 and funding irregularities and Russian activity in the referendum have not overturned Brexit.

    Decrepit's first law of politics: things that ought to matter, usually don't.
    Nat Rothschild.

    What ever happened to Bumi and Genel?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited November 2019
    Just back from our Remembrance Sunday service and parade in Epping during which the Brexit Party drove a van with a logo on (as well as 'last we forget') during the silence, had members of the crowd in Brexit Party rosettes and the candidate laid a wreath in full military uniform plus rosette. Looks like Farage as well as Corbyn needs a lesson on what Remembrance weekend is supposed to be about
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    The Russia report should have been published. I doubt there'd have been a voter backlash because there wasn't when George Osborne was found grubbing for Russian millions a decade or so back.
    Bit difficult for Labour to run with that given Mandelson had been on the same yacht also grubbing for money. This one should have been a free hit, unless of course it implicated Labour too.
    The press ran with it. Mandelson was not after the cash, having fallen out with Brown. The chain was that Osborne leaked what Mandelson said about Brown, and then Nat Rothschild leaked that Osborne was grubbing for roubles (illegally, of course). Yet the party and Osborne survived.

    Likewise reports about electoral malpractice in 2015 and funding irregularities and Russian activity in the referendum have not overturned Brexit.

    Decrepit's first law of politics: things that ought to matter, usually don't.
    Mandelson wasn’t after cash for Labour. He wanted it for one of his other projects at the Commission.

    The more awkward aspect of the timing was that by the time this story emerged Mandelson had reconciled with Brown and rejoined the cabinet.

    The most amusing aspect is that Osborne leaked most of the story himself in a bid to damage Mandelson...
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028
    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938
    Championes!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Really?
    https://youtu.be/wxlhyX-4qKI
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I suspect a lot of people remain less than engaged from the GE at this point but the overnight polling was obviously very good for the Conservatives and a 40% vote share against a split opposition guarantees a landslide majority.

    We now seem to be in a unseemly dutch auction between the Conservative and Labour Parties to determine which of the two can try and buy the greater number of votes with un-costed campaign spending pledges.

    The problem with the hundreds of millions of spending pledges is they will have to be paid for and today's borrowing becomes tomorrow's tax rises - whichever of the two old dinosaur parties ends up in Government can say what it likes now but taxes will ultimately rise and rise considerably to meet the spending pledges.

    We are being bribed with our own money and of course there will be a payback down the road.

    We also have targeted campaign pledges for each and every day from the Conservative "tsunami of Tory ideas". The Veterans' Railcard - who could possibly object to that? Well, Veterans already enjoy free or heavily discounted travel in London courtesy of the Veterans Oyster Card and armed forces personnel in uniform travel free.

    The truth of many of the campaign pledges is they are often far less than they appear but that isn't of course the point.

    Technical point; a Dutch Auction is one where a single buyer bids down sellers. A standard auction is where a single seller bids up buyers. :smile:
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited November 2019
    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811
    Has TSE bribed the VAR referee? ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Says LD supporter
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938
    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    But at least Johnson wasn't wearing a donkey jacket.....
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    This has potential to shape this election in the latter stages, like what happened for Trump. A game changer.

    If you think back to how it began to turn for Oh Jeremy Corbyn, when he called it wrong on Putin’s KGB poisoning of Salisbury with nerve agent of war, how his support went off a cliff, how his critics in opposition and his own party made hay whilst the Jez Sun went down? What if the Tories did nothing about it because of how much Russian money has bought their party and is playing the tune? Facts are Trump has struck off oligarchs on behalf of his British ally the British government haven’t even moved against. Add to it whiff of a cover up. Whispers of links between close aids of the prime minister and Russia. And most of all how it was used as a stick to beat Corbyn, but not enough action taken on the actual problem, this is just the type of thing to definitely reshape last weeks of this campaign. Isn’t it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    But at least Johnson wasn't wearing a donkey jacket.....
    He’s quite capable of looking an ass without it.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028
    HYUFD said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Says LD supporter
    Doesn't make it wrong, though :smiley:

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Mr. kle4, it's faintly amusing that I'm a better green by accident than the hypocritical and smug Caroline Lucas is.

    And all without hectoring others to change their lifestyles.

    That death star didn't just build itself Mr Dancer.....
    Say what you will about them, but Darth Vader and the Emperor were excellent motivators, and great organisers of major projects. Heck, the people who tried to replace them got their arses kicked by Empire wannabes for crying out loud.
    Indeed. Say what you like about Palpatine, but he was a superb organiser and bought peace and security to the Galaxy
  • Co-leaders are a genuinely stupid idea, always and forever.

    On the bright side, it’ll probably confine Labour to yet another term of opposition.

    So it’s not all bad news.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    This has potential to shape this election in the latter stages, like what happened for Trump. A game changer.

    If you think back to how it began to turn for Oh Jeremy Corbyn, when he called it wrong on Putin’s KGB poisoning of Salisbury with nerve agent of war, how his support went off a cliff, how his critics in opposition and his own party made hay whilst the Jez Sun went down? What if the Tories did nothing about it because of how much Russian money has bought their party and is playing the tune? Facts are Trump has struck off oligarchs on behalf of his British ally the British government haven’t even moved against. Add to it whiff of a cover up. Whispers of links between close aids of the prime minister and Russia. And most of all how it was used as a stick to beat Corbyn, but not enough action taken on the actual problem, this is just the type of thing to definitely reshape last weeks of this campaign. Isn’t it?
    Trump won
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Floater said:
    It should be damaging. But tbh, most of those who will care about such a lowlife being in a position of power are probably already resolved not to vote Labour anyway.
  • Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Co-leaders are a genuinely stupid idea, always and forever.

    On the bright side, it’ll probably confine Labour to yet another term of opposition.

    So it’s not all bad news.

    Unless you want good government.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    But at least Johnson wasn't wearing a donkey jacket.....
    Neither was Foot. It was a bottle green duffle-coat. It's striking the resemblance, though. The wild hair, the unbuttoned coat, the air of dishevelment.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3g1UiO1nRmA/S4_QRxBlwMI/AAAAAAAAA2I/ajKLRDHkbzc/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Michael-Foot_692412a.jpg



  • alb1on said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    I am not a Labour supporter but have come across Dogus. He is one of the few Labour candidates who could tempt me to vote Labour - especially in a constituency like WBE where it is him or the Conservative. One of the good guys.
    I had a quick look at the constituency on the HoC website. If the theory that seats become impossible for the Tories to win once the BAME percentage hits 30 is correct, then this one ought to be just about safe for Labour. But we shall see what transpires.
    It’s sort of self-correcting.

    As BAME hit 30% they will dominate more and more in the middle classes (rather than mainly urban working classes) so a strong and growing cadre of them will find their politics growing increasingly conservative.

    It should also ameliorate against silliness like “reparations” since at that proportion of the population they’d be taxing themselves to pay for it too.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    This has potential to shape this election in the latter stages, like what happened for Trump. A game changer.

    If you think back to how it began to turn for Oh Jeremy Corbyn, when he called it wrong on Putin’s KGB poisoning of Salisbury with nerve agent of war, how his support went off a cliff, how his critics in opposition and his own party made hay whilst the Jez Sun went down? What if the Tories did nothing about it because of how much Russian money has bought their party and is playing the tune? Facts are Trump has struck off oligarchs on behalf of his British ally the British government haven’t even moved against. Add to it whiff of a cover up. Whispers of links between close aids of the prime minister and Russia. And most of all how it was used as a stick to beat Corbyn, but not enough action taken on the actual problem, this is just the type of thing to definitely reshape last weeks of this campaign. Isn’t it?
    What oligarchs has Trump "struck off"? Best I can tell, the Trump administration has gutted the Magnitsky Act, giving carte blanche for Putin to carry on his policies of murdering inconvenient people. Trump is basically on Putin's side, just more hemmed in by America's constitution.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    So if Labour lose having lost Leavers to the Brexit Party and the Tories and Remainers to the LDs, Greens and SNP they now have a cunning plan to accelerate the process

    You always give an answer and great rebuttal HY. The latest speculation about the suppressed security report, this time from the Pravda of the BBC, claim Tories suppressed it because Russians named in it are big donors to the Tory party, hence he who pays the piper plays the tune. 😮

    What’s the right response? Surely rebutting attack where Labour get their money off unions just adds fuel to the fire as doesn’t actually rebutt?
    The right response is to ignore it unless the donations were illegal
    This has potential to shape this election in the latter stages, like what happened for Trump. A game changer.

    If you think back to how it began to turn for Oh Jeremy Corbyn, when he called it wrong on Putin’s KGB poisoning of Salisbury with nerve agent of war, how his support went off a cliff, how his critics in opposition and his own party made hay whilst the Jez Sun went down? What if the Tories did nothing about it because of how much Russian money has bought their party and is playing the tune? Facts are Trump has struck off oligarchs on behalf of his British ally the British government haven’t even moved against. Add to it whiff of a cover up. Whispers of links between close aids of the prime minister and Russia. And most of all how it was used as a stick to beat Corbyn, but not enough action taken on the actual problem, this is just the type of thing to definitely reshape last weeks of this campaign. Isn’t it?
    I don't know. How is one more scandal going to achieve cut-through amongst so many others?

    This election seems highly likely, as things stand, to be decided by Brexit, the voters' assessment of the spending plans of the major parties, the extent to which Labour can motivate its core vote, plus the usual split on the constitution in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twenty three minutes to save the NHS not cutting through?
    The election is in over a month, not tomorrow.

    Give Labour time, the sods will come back. It would be too easy otherwise.
    The destruction of the NHS at the hands of the Tories is practically the only thing Labour talks about.
    Because it works. "X days to save the NHS" is the activation command for the Labour androids.

    The fact that they've been saying the same thing since Thatcher and yet the health service remains stubbornly unprivatised goes entirely unnoticed.
    Everyone has some stock lines that work. Not perfectly or with the same effect each time, but they work.
    The Conservatives are going to find it harder to play the fiscal responsibility card this time, even though Labour’s spending plans are off the scale.

    The BBC website today makes it look like the pot is calling the kettle black.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 772
    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    Agreed. And we had the added reminder of the five former PMs behind him, who in their time all managed to fasten their coats, polish their shoes and lay their wreath the correct way round.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,684
    Must balance male/female, Leave/Remain, AND town/city? That's bad enough, but why not white/BAME and north/south as well?

    Is Keir Starmer not allowed to stand unless he can persuade a black female northern Leave Labour MP in a non-urban area to stand and balance out his ticket? Are there any, even?
  • ydoethur said:

    Co-leaders are a genuinely stupid idea, always and forever.

    On the bright side, it’ll probably confine Labour to yet another term of opposition.

    So it’s not all bad news.

    Unless you want good government.
    This is true. But if Labour won’t play the part of the official opposition seriously, holding the Government to account and providing a credible alternative, then what else can we expect?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
  • Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,684

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twenty three minutes to save the NHS not cutting through?
    The election is in over a month, not tomorrow.

    Give Labour time, the sods will come back. It would be too easy otherwise.
    The destruction of the NHS at the hands of the Tories is practically the only thing Labour talks about.
    Because it works. "X days to save the NHS" is the activation command for the Labour androids.

    The fact that they've been saying the same thing since Thatcher and yet the health service remains stubbornly unprivatised goes entirely unnoticed.
    Everyone has some stock lines that work. Not perfectly or with the same effect each time, but they work.
    The Conservatives are going to find it harder to play the fiscal responsibility card this time, even though Labour’s spending plans are off the scale.

    The BBC website today makes it look like the pot is calling the kettle black.
    I think the kettle is calling the pot black, which is technically ok.

    Feels very much like referendum-redux: make up a huge number and try to force your opponents to defend their position by claiming a smaller, but still really big, number. It won't work because the Labour manifesto will pull the same tricks as last time to obscure the true cost of nationalisation plans etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,244

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twenty three minutes to save the NHS not cutting through?
    The election is in over a month, not tomorrow.

    Give Labour time, the sods will come back. It would be too easy otherwise.
    The destruction of the NHS at the hands of the Tories is practically the only thing Labour talks about.
    Because it works. "X days to save the NHS" is the activation command for the Labour androids.

    The fact that they've been saying the same thing since Thatcher and yet the health service remains stubbornly unprivatised goes entirely unnoticed.
    Everyone has some stock lines that work. Not perfectly or with the same effect each time, but they work.
    The Conservatives are going to find it harder to play the fiscal responsibility card this time, even though Labour’s spending plans are off the scale.

    The BBC website today makes it look like the pot is calling the kettle black.
    Yes, I think it will be less effective. They are reliant on Labour's lines being similarly not as effective as last time. In fact, they need to be quite a bit less effective.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    edited November 2019
    Further to this morning’s thread: SDLP shortening in Foyle, now 2/5. Sinn Féin drifted to 13/8.

    (SF Maj 2017 GE = 169)

    An interesting detail is that if this NI seat changes hands, the Tories need to win one more seat in GB in order to have a parliamentary majority.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
    I’m trying to decide whether this post is sarcastic, or just....

    It’s not too easy to tell with this one.
  • kle4 said:

    Well this would go just fine, I'm sure:

    Labour chiefs mull plan to replace top civil servants with political appointees

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-chiefs-mull-plan-replace-20852711.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't even remember it coming up during the coalition years as it says it did.

    Johnny Mac has already said they will all be sent for re-education.
    Labour are either completely convinced the UK wants a totalitarian left wing state and is just about to vote for it, or they know they haven't got a hope and are just putting out there all their long term lefty wet dreams.

    Otherwise, why even talk about voter repellent ideas like this?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Endillion said:

    Must balance male/female, Leave/Remain, AND town/city? That's bad enough, but why not white/BAME and north/south as well?

    Is Keir Starmer not allowed to stand unless he can persuade a black female northern Leave Labour MP in a non-urban area to stand and balance out his ticket? Are there any, even?

    Or sane and insane?
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
    Is it? I count fourteen.

    Wibble.
  • HYUFD said:
    Booed when he layed his 'reef'? Will this be a barrier to electoral success?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Banterman said:

    kle4 said:

    Well this would go just fine, I'm sure:

    Labour chiefs mull plan to replace top civil servants with political appointees

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-chiefs-mull-plan-replace-20852711.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    I don't even remember it coming up during the coalition years as it says it did.

    Johnny Mac has already said they will all be sent for re-education.
    Labour are either completely convinced the UK wants a totalitarian left wing state and is just about to vote for it, or they know they haven't got a hope and are just putting out there all their long term lefty wet dreams.

    Otherwise, why even talk about voter repellent ideas like this?
    It’s even more bizarre because this sort of talk will drive away large chunks of the public sector, which is about the only solid electoral base Labour has left.
  • Evening all and being laid low with shingles this weekend, I have been watching too many news programmes on the telebox. Clearly Labour must be panicking that the Tory claims about £trillions on public spending must be getting through the way speaker after speaker is protesting about fake news. I have thought for some time the final polling numbers could end up something like Tory 40 Labour 25, Liberal 15, Brexit 5 Green 5 SNP etc the rest we may indeed end up with a repeat of 1983. Now that would be wonderful.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.
    Johnson's fag will get a beasting tonight for not cleaning his shoes....
  • Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.

    Unfortunately, he really does need to front it and he needs to sort himself out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
    Is it? I count fourteen.

    Wibble.
    Maybe he’s missing a thumb? Although that then begs the question why he refers to ‘thumbs’ plural.
  • HYUFD said:
    Profoundly unwise of the Tories to encourage the politicisation of Remembrance Sunday.

    The party has forgotten the difference between party interest and national interest. Re-education is going to be harsh.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twenty three minutes to save the NHS not cutting through?
    The election is in over a month, not tomorrow.

    Give Labour time, the sods will come back. It would be too easy otherwise.
    The destruction of the NHS at the hands of the Tories is practically the only thing Labour talks about.
    Because it works. "X days to save the NHS" is the activation command for the Labour androids.

    The fact that they've been saying the same thing since Thatcher and yet the health service remains stubbornly unprivatised goes entirely unnoticed.
    Everyone has some stock lines that work. Not perfectly or with the same effect each time, but they work.
    The Conservatives are going to find it harder to play the fiscal responsibility card this time, even though Labour’s spending plans are off the scale.

    The BBC website today makes it look like the pot is calling the kettle black.
    Yes, I think it will be less effective. They are reliant on Labour's lines being similarly not as effective as last time. In fact, they need to be quite a bit less effective.
    Even my folks (staunch Conservatives) aren’t impressed by the spending spree.

    It will be interesting to see what’s promised in the manifesto - rumours today that Javid will pledge to structurally balance the budget in the next three years - but, by then, it might be too late to fatten the pig for market day.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,684
    Update: Corbyn has denied laying anything.
  • Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.
    Johnson's fag will get a beasting tonight for not cleaning his shoes....
    Lol!
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,121
    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
    I’m trying to decide whether this post is sarcastic, or just....

    It’s not too easy to tell with this one.
    Noo from Norfolk?
  • HYUFD said:
    Profoundly unwise of the Tories to encourage the politicisation of Remembrance Sunday.

    The party has forgotten the difference between party interest and national interest. Re-education is going to be harsh.
    Here's hoping!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Endillion said:

    Update: Corbyn has denied laying anything.
    He was there, but he wasn’t involved.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited November 2019
    There could easily be a coralation.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited November 2019
    JohnO said:

    ydoethur said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    It's so nice to be in a country that has such a depth of political talent that we can afford to be fussy about shoes and the depth of a bow.
    Oh, no, wait, you're an idiot.
    Powerful argument. You’ve convinced me.

    Do you have a dunce’s hat I can borrow?
    Yes, I have twelve.
    You can count to twelve, right? Just look down at your hands. See those fingers and thumbs? That's twelve.
    I’m trying to decide whether this post is sarcastic, or just....

    It’s not too easy to tell with this one.
    Noo from Norfolk?
    :D It wasn't my hands... I... never mind
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Ishmael_Z said:


    There could easily be a coralation.
    Please stop with the reef puns, I'm urchin you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited November 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:


    There could easily be a coralation.
    Very good. I tried to think of a reply but it’s so good it put a great barrier in the way.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493
    edited November 2019

    Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.

    Unfortunately, he really does need to front it and he needs to sort himself out.
    Or find someone to sort him out. I think if someone is running the country, having someone on the payroll to ensure a high standard of personal presentation at all times is useful and justified. Cummings clearly does not place a high degree of importance on these issues - he turns up to number 10 looking like a hobo.
  • Here are the top five Labour target seats in Scotland (all currently SNP-held), with their current best prices. Looking grim for Leonard & Co:

    Glasgow East 3/1
    Motherwell & Wishaw 3/1
    Glasgow South West 7/2
    Airdrie & Shotts 4/1
    Lanark & Hamilton East 7/1

    And to think how many threads Mike has posted regarding the impending SNP massacre in these seats. I wonder how much he has staked on SLab?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,385

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twenty three minutes to save the NHS not cutting through?
    The election is in over a month, not tomorrow.

    Give Labour time, the sods will come back. It would be too easy otherwise.
    The destruction of the NHS at the hands of the Tories is practically the only thing Labour talks about.
    Because it works. "X days to save the NHS" is the activation command for the Labour androids.

    The fact that they've been saying the same thing since Thatcher and yet the health service remains stubbornly unprivatised goes entirely unnoticed.
    Everyone has some stock lines that work. Not perfectly or with the same effect each time, but they work.
    The Conservatives are going to find it harder to play the fiscal responsibility card this time, even though Labour’s spending plans are off the scale.

    The BBC website today makes it look like the pot is calling the kettle black.
    Yes, I think it will be less effective. They are reliant on Labour's lines being similarly not as effective as last time. In fact, they need to be quite a bit less effective.
    Even my folks (staunch Conservatives) aren’t impressed by the spending spree.

    It will be interesting to see what’s promised in the manifesto - rumours today that Javid will pledge to structurally balance the budget in the next three years - but, by then, it might be too late to fatten the pig for market day.
    It's pretty obviously not aimed at staunch Conservatives. Why do you think their talking heads are struggling to sell it coherently?

    Doesn't mean it won't help with the voters it's actually aimed at.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,244
    alb1on said:

    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
    I hope he does not win a sizable majority, or we could be looking a a long johnson premiership.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948
    Noo said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    There could easily be a coralation.
    Please stop with the reef puns, I'm urchin you.
    If only there was an appropriately-named firm of betting shops I could mention... :)
  • Noo said:

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    Who fucking cares?
    To be fair, I do.

    It was a pretty poor show by Johnson.

    Corbyn being a disgrace is priced in.
    This is why the Conservatives need to keep The Clown’s public appearances to an absolute minimum. The manchild is a liability.
    Johnson's fag will get a beasting tonight for not cleaning his shoes....
    Not sure what that involves, but it can’t be as bad as his predecessor putting “a private part of his anatomy “ into a pig’s mouth, nor the Eton biscuit game.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    alb1on said:

    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
    I dunno. I’ve just looked up this Sophie Wilson in Rotherham and bloody hellfire, she’s a dreadful pick. What were Labour thinking?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Tabman said:

    Of the three party leaders at the Cenotaph today, Johnson was a ******* disgrace. Unpolished shoes, a coat he didn't (couldn't?) fasten, and laying his wreath upside down. Corbyn did his usual failure to bow trick. Only Swinson actually performed like a PM.

    But at least Johnson wasn't wearing a donkey jacket.....
    He might have well as done
  • Kensington - best prices
    Con 6/5
    LD 5/2
    Lab 3/1
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    I will be very surprised if Labour hold Ynys Môn. With Albert Owen not standing again their vote will almost certainly fragment.

    This is a constituency that hasn’t turned out a sitting MP since 1951, but also hasn’t elected a new MP from the same party since 1929. I do not think this is a hard one to call. Plaid should win pretty easily.
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:



    Well 10 years of Westminster Pension Pot plus the post-expenses salary, plus 10 years of Euro Parliament Pension plus the MEP expenses for a decade.

    Those 2 together should be around a million, plus the 200k+ pension pot we all have from a fully paid up UK Basic Pension. (Using multiple of 35-40, which is what you currently get for cashing a Final Salary pension in).

    Suspect that CL is fairly clean on Parliamentary expenses, probably also compared to the average MEP whilst she was there.

    Plus whatever she has accumulated from property and savings over 20 years of politics plus 15 years previsouly.

    Plus whatever you make off the back of a PhD in Tudor Chick Lit.

    £2-3 million?

    Not as loaded as say Diane Abbott, but probably a 1-5 per-center.

    Minus donations and other she has spent, which may be zero or may be substantial.

    You appear to be assuming that she has spent nothing on anything ever, not even a vegan Bounty bar?
    She is unlikely to have spent her pension pots yet. Those alone are probably north of £1 million in total.
    I’m on a final salary pension myself so I know that they would cost a lot to replicate with a savings pot.

    Edit for typos.
    Really? I thought you were a teacher?
    It’s very simple:

    The salary I am on now will be my final salary and is what I was on when the average salary part of the pension kicked in. So part is final salary and part is average salary and both are the same.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:



    Well 10 years of Westminster Pension Pot plus the post-expenses salary, plus 10 years of Euro Parliament Pension plus the MEP expenses for a decade.

    Those 2 together should be around a million, plus the 200k+ pension pot we all have from a fully paid up UK Basic Pension. (Using multiple of 35-40, which is what you currently get for cashing a Final Salary pension in).

    Suspect that CL is fairly clean on Parliamentary expenses, probably also compared to the average MEP whilst she was there.

    Plus whatever she has accumulated from property and savings over 20 years of politics plus 15 years previsouly.

    Plus whatever you make off the back of a PhD in Tudor Chick Lit.

    £2-3 million?

    Not as loaded as say Diane Abbott, but probably a 1-5 per-center.

    Minus donations and other she has spent, which may be zero or may be substantial.

    You appear to be assuming that she has spent nothing on anything ever, not even a vegan Bounty bar?
    She is unlikely to have spent her pension pots yet. Those alone are probably north of £1 million in total.
    I’m on a final salary pension myself so I know that they would cost a lot to replicate with a savings pot.

    Edit for typos.
    Really? I thought you were a teacher?
    It’s very simple:

    The salary I am on now will be my final salary and is what I was on when the average salary part of the pension kicked in. So part is final salary and part is average salary and both are the same.

    Ah, now I understand.

    For those of us who started later, of course...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited November 2019

    HYUFD said:
    Profoundly unwise of the Tories to encourage the politicisation of Remembrance Sunday.

    The party has forgotten the difference between party interest and national interest. Re-education is going to be harsh.

    Absolute disgrace if people booed corbyn laying wreath I didn’t hear it but he lays it on behalf of the Labour Party who actually won the election as the war was ending. No time for the man but anyone, yes anyone, that uses this event for party advantage is a disgrace.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,385
    ydoethur said:

    alb1on said:

    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
    I dunno. I’ve just looked up this Sophie Wilson in Rotherham and bloody hellfire, she’s a dreadful pick. What were Labour thinking?
    You mean what were Momentum thinking? By all accounts the established local party is not pleased by their new enfant terrible.
  • Mr. kle4, a sizeable minority, and the PM losing his seat, might be the optimal result.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    maaarsh said:

    ydoethur said:

    alb1on said:

    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
    I dunno. I’ve just looked up this Sophie Wilson in Rotherham and bloody hellfire, she’s a dreadful pick. What were Labour thinking?
    You mean what were Momentum thinking? By all accounts the established local party is not pleased by their new enfant terrible.
    Ah.

    All is unfortunately explained.

    Although I must dispute your question. It implies that Momentum think.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Endillion said:

    Update: Corbyn has denied laying anything.
    Abbott was very upset to hear that - she thought she meant something to him.......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Mr. kle4, a sizeable minority, and the PM losing his seat, might be the optimal result.

    Do you mean a sizeable majority?

    Although we need Patel, Raab and Gove to lose their seats as well, don’t forget.
  • Mr. Doethur, what does the circumflex over the O in Ynys Mon signify?
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:



    Well 10 years of Westminster Pension Pot plus the post-expenses salary, plus 10 years of Euro Parliament Pension plus the MEP expenses for a decade.

    Those 2 together should be around a million, plus the 200k+ pension pot we all have from a fully paid up UK Basic Pension. (Using multiple of 35-40, which is what you currently get for cashing a Final Salary pension in).

    Suspect that CL is fairly clean on Parliamentary expenses, probably also compared to the average MEP whilst she was there.

    Plus whatever she has accumulated from property and savings over 20 years of politics plus 15 years previsouly.

    Plus whatever you make off the back of a PhD in Tudor Chick Lit.

    £2-3 million?

    Not as loaded as say Diane Abbott, but probably a 1-5 per-center.

    Minus donations and other she has spent, which may be zero or may be substantial.

    You appear to be assuming that she has spent nothing on anything ever, not even a vegan Bounty bar?
    She is unlikely to have spent her pension pots yet. Those alone are probably north of £1 million in total.
    I’m on a final salary pension myself so I know that they would cost a lot to replicate with a savings pot.

    Edit for typos.
    Really? I thought you were a teacher?
    It’s very simple:

    The salary I am on now will be my final salary and is what I was on when the average salary part of the pension kicked in. So part is final salary and part is average salary and both are the same.

    There are still some of the older teachers who still benefit from the original scheme with the final salary system only. I have just retired on that basis.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. kle4, a sizeable minority, and the PM losing his seat, might be the optimal result.

    Do you mean a sizeable majority?

    Although we need Patel, Raab and Gove to lose their seats as well, don’t forget.
    I don't know about the others, but Priti Patel is well into blue rosette on a donkey territory. She's completely safe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Mr. Doethur, what does the circumflex over the O in Ynys Mon signify?

    Just means it’s pronounced as a long o rather than short, as in the Latin Mona (from which it is either derived, or the root for).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. kle4, a sizeable minority, and the PM losing his seat, might be the optimal result.

    Do you mean a sizeable majority?

    Although we need Patel, Raab and Gove to lose their seats as well, don’t forget.
    I don't know about the others, but Priti Patel is well into blue rosette on a donkey territory. She's completely safe.
    So is Gove, alas.

    Although in fairness given who the candidates are we knew that already...
  • Mr. Doethur, ahem, I did indeed mean majority*.

    Should stress I proofread my posts rather less well than my books, including the latest comedy, available here:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edric-Corpse-Lord-Hero-Hornska-ebook/dp/B07YN4DBB9/

    https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/961013

    Mr. Doethur (2), ah, cool.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:



    Well 10 years of Westminster Pension Pot plus the post-expenses salary, plus 10 years of Euro Parliament Pension plus the MEP expenses for a decade.

    Those 2 together should be around a million, plus the 200k+ pension pot we all have from a fully paid up UK Basic Pension. (Using multiple of 35-40, which is what you currently get for cashing a Final Salary pension in).

    Suspect that CL is fairly clean on Parliamentary expenses, probably also compared to the average MEP whilst she was there.

    Plus whatever she has accumulated from property and savings over 20 years of politics plus 15 years previsouly.

    Plus whatever you make off the back of a PhD in Tudor Chick Lit.

    £2-3 million?

    Not as loaded as say Diane Abbott, but probably a 1-5 per-center.

    Minus donations and other she has spent, which may be zero or may be substantial.

    You appear to be assuming that she has spent nothing on anything ever, not even a vegan Bounty bar?
    She is unlikely to have spent her pension pots yet. Those alone are probably north of £1 million in total.
    I’m on a final salary pension myself so I know that they would cost a lot to replicate with a savings pot.

    Edit for typos.
    Really? I thought you were a teacher?
    It’s very simple:

    The salary I am on now will be my final salary and is what I was on when the average salary part of the pension kicked in. So part is final salary and part is average salary and both are the same.

    Ah, now I understand.

    For those of us who started later, of course...
    I’ve been teaching long enough that the teacher I replaced in my current job had retired at 50 (as was then his right).
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,177
    Is there a tactical voting site to stop Corbyn's Labour?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. kle4, a sizeable minority, and the PM losing his seat, might be the optimal result.

    Do you mean a sizeable majority?

    Although we need Patel, Raab and Gove to lose their seats as well, don’t forget.
    I don't know about the others, but Priti Patel is well into blue rosette on a donkey territory. She's completely safe.
    Well if she really is into donkeys with blue rosettes I’ll try to avoid the video clips
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,812
    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a tactical voting site to stop Corbyn's Labour?

    No, why would anyone want to do that? (innocent face)
  • kle4 said:

    alb1on said:

    MJW said:

    trawl said:

    Off topic, West Bromwich East constituency.
    This is my hometown constituency and my mom still lives there. It was looking to be colourful until Watson stepped down. Despite everything (Op Midland, Get Brexit Done - it’s very Leave) I was still intending to bet on Labour here. Now the candidates have been selected and Labour have gone for an anti Brexit chap Ibrahim Dogus of Vauxhall, London, the Tories a female councillor Nicola Richards from neighbouring Dudley Council. Dogus has a decent write up, but London Remainer? Hmmm.

    Not related to Dogus specifically, who people on here seem to say is a good sort, even if a strange fit for WBE but I do wonder if Labour have screwed up majorly in an election where every seat will matter one way or another, with some of their selections. For example selecting a 23 year old who is involved in a public spat with a leading anti-child abuse campaigner in Rother Valley (Rotherham) is...bold. There's been the Bassetlaw fiasco, and they've selected a literal Trot in West Brom East. That's not to mention Zarah Sultana in Cov South.
    The biggest mistake must be Ali Milani in Uxbridge. He may be a charming man whose juvenile mistakes are all in the past........but standing a candidate with a history of antisemitism on social media seems to be giving Johnson a free pass in a constituency where a strong opponent (or even better, all the opposition parties uniting behind a strong indie) could have seen the end of Johnson.
    I hope he does not win a sizable majority, or we could be looking a a long johnson premiership.
    A long johnson???...oh dear
  • Floater said:

    Endillion said:

    Update: Corbyn has denied laying anything.
    Abbott was very upset to hear that - she thought she meant something to him.......
    Sadly, for Diane, he was present but not involved.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Kensington - best prices
    Con 6/5
    LD 5/2
    Lab 3/1
    I'm expecting some big LibDem movement in London, especially west from Westminster out into Surrey.

    However, people were rightly incensed by Rees-Mogg and Bridgen. I think there's no love lost for the tories there right now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited November 2019

    Kensington - best prices
    Con 6/5
    LD 5/2
    Lab 3/1
    I'm expecting some big LibDem movement in London, especially west from Westminster out into Surrey.

    However, people were rightly incensed by Rees-Mogg and Bridgen. I think there's no love lost for the tories there right now.
    The area from Westminster to Surrey has most of the highest house prices in the country as well as some of the biggest Remain votes, they will not touch Corbyn with a bargepole but they are likely to deliver a big swing from Tory to LD even if Boris wins a majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited November 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    Is there a tactical voting site to stop Corbyn's Labour?

    Vote Boris.co.uk!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Kensington - best prices
    Con 6/5
    LD 5/2
    Lab 3/1
    I'm expecting some big LibDem movement in London, especially west from Westminster out into Surrey.

    However, people were rightly incensed by Rees-Mogg and Bridgen. I think there's no love lost for the tories there right now.
    That’s a seat that if they win it back it will be a three-way fight with the Liberal Democrats, which despite them being 8,000 votes adrift doesn’t seem impossible given Sam Gyimah is pretty high profile.

    A lot might depend on Felicity Buchan, about whom I know nothing but the name.

    Dent Coad is a thoroughly unpleasant person and deserves to lose - but then, how many MPs can we say that about?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,244
    edited November 2019
    Oh thank goodness it was not Jackson. I was at an event where he was once and he was such a whinger about May.
This discussion has been closed.